Living in the world of 20-30 something players
December 1, 2015 4:06 AM Subscribe
I have a great housemate who has been really considerate and helpful ever since I moved in (which was few weeks ago). However, his lifestyle and his friends don't match up to mine and sometimes I find listening to them talk depressing. Not sure if this will fade in time or if should be looking for another place.
Now that I got settled in more, I see some of the problems emerging that I know are mostly my own issues.
My housemate lives this casul sex lifestyle and has a number of FWB arrangements and casual hook ups that he talks about constantly. All of his friends are this way too, basicaly living in the world of partying, alcohol and women. Some are nearly 40, and still do this.
Anyhow, most of the partying is happening outside and this in itself doesn't disturb my peace. It's the talk of objectifying women and constantly commenting on their looks that I find hard to stomach.
One evening we had too much too drink and my housemate kind of made a move on me. I stopped it and it was no big deal. Couple of his friends have tried something too. They quickly moved on and have about 9999 of other women on the list. I am really suprised that so many women go for these arrangments. Why would they even put themselves in such a deamining position?
I know I don't have much to complain about as housemate wise, things could be a lot worse and I am saving heaps of money. I am also aware that people chose to live these lifestyles and it's none of my business.
One of the things I was hoping for with a housemate is to increase my social circle and maybe meet some new men. However, this is not what I had in mind. I don't have much shared-housing living experience. I only lived with boyfriends or by myself in the past.
Does this sound to you like I need to move? Obviously, there is not hurry but in general? Or any tips to help me deal with this so that I am not that affected by what I hear?
Now that I got settled in more, I see some of the problems emerging that I know are mostly my own issues.
My housemate lives this casul sex lifestyle and has a number of FWB arrangements and casual hook ups that he talks about constantly. All of his friends are this way too, basicaly living in the world of partying, alcohol and women. Some are nearly 40, and still do this.
Anyhow, most of the partying is happening outside and this in itself doesn't disturb my peace. It's the talk of objectifying women and constantly commenting on their looks that I find hard to stomach.
One evening we had too much too drink and my housemate kind of made a move on me. I stopped it and it was no big deal. Couple of his friends have tried something too. They quickly moved on and have about 9999 of other women on the list. I am really suprised that so many women go for these arrangments. Why would they even put themselves in such a deamining position?
I know I don't have much to complain about as housemate wise, things could be a lot worse and I am saving heaps of money. I am also aware that people chose to live these lifestyles and it's none of my business.
One of the things I was hoping for with a housemate is to increase my social circle and maybe meet some new men. However, this is not what I had in mind. I don't have much shared-housing living experience. I only lived with boyfriends or by myself in the past.
Does this sound to you like I need to move? Obviously, there is not hurry but in general? Or any tips to help me deal with this so that I am not that affected by what I hear?
Also just wanted to flag this: "has been really considerate and helpful ever since I moved in". Considering the context of his other behaviour, he's probably trying to be the Nice Guy. Beware of Nice Guys.
posted by like_neon at 4:18 AM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 4:18 AM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
For now, no. If he and his friends are respectful of you for the most part and apart from his sex-life, you like your roommate, stay put for now. I'm a sarcastic asshole, so I'd just start dishing up some shit to throw back at them. But that's me, and I'm comfortable with it. Perhaps there's a way you could challenge the behavior that would help you feel better about the whole thing.
There are people in the world who perceive this behavior as sex-positive. If everyone in the arrangement is happy, then it's not wrong, it's just different than what's right for you. I'll admit that if you're asking yourself these questions, then it's probably not sustainable for you in the long run. But I wouldn't be all in a rush to bail out of an otherwise satisfactory arrangement.
Roommates are difficult when both parties are of like minds, if you've found someone who conducts his sexual business outside of your home, if he's on time with the dough for rent and utilities, if he doesn't eat your yogurt, you're ahead of the game.
You don't have to be 100% sympatico with people in your life, in order to get along with them. But if this continues to grate on you, life is too short, find another home.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:28 AM on December 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
There are people in the world who perceive this behavior as sex-positive. If everyone in the arrangement is happy, then it's not wrong, it's just different than what's right for you. I'll admit that if you're asking yourself these questions, then it's probably not sustainable for you in the long run. But I wouldn't be all in a rush to bail out of an otherwise satisfactory arrangement.
Roommates are difficult when both parties are of like minds, if you've found someone who conducts his sexual business outside of your home, if he's on time with the dough for rent and utilities, if he doesn't eat your yogurt, you're ahead of the game.
You don't have to be 100% sympatico with people in your life, in order to get along with them. But if this continues to grate on you, life is too short, find another home.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:28 AM on December 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
Wow. That must feel so uncomfortable - I'm so sorry!
Right now, I think it comes down to, for the time being:
1) can you tolerate living in this situation assuming nothing changes?
2) can you tolerate living in this situation assuming nothing changes and you understand that you are not friends, this is a business relationship (e.g. Roommates only)?
3) do you feel safe?
There are other things to consider as well, but mostly, would you be ok living in this situation?
I know what my answer would be, but YMMV.
I would say absolutely not and start the move out process. While you are working on that, I'd ensure you can lock your room or belongings while you are not home. I would not trust these people one iota. Like you said, things are not so bad right now, which is helpful because you can spend a little time finding a better living situation.
Definitely move though. While this may be arm's length tolerable, albeit annoying, right now, this situation has complete ability to spiral into a complete disaster where I eventually envision you tiptoeing around these people and their escapades which will eventually come INTO the the house like a tsunami. More than that, this does have potential to turn into a shitstorm of feeling unsafe in your own house if you don't already.
If that roommate made a move NOW as did his buddy, I wouldn't put it past them to see which one could sleep with you first. This sounds way harsh, but to these people, everything and everyone is viewed as disposable and for their entertainment. There could be potential for the friend to cover up your roommate's behavior as a "witness" also if he does something like corner you into a room. Not good at all. Again, not trying to scare you, but just saying that people of this variety do not give a fuck about anything other than what they want. It sounds like they turn into different people, not helpful or friendly whil drinking.
I know moving sucks, but I really encourage to initiate operation GTFO.
And FWIW, in my experience, the women who are ok with this sort of bullshit either are suffering from crippling self esteem issues, are not independent thinkers, think they can do the same PUA nonsense, are in the total rebound or are just attention seekers looking in the wrong format.
You do not compute with these people. That's ok! And good job listening to your gut. Move out, get sanctuary and find sound more compatible people. Please be safe in the meantime. Home should be a safe space and these are not safe people. Hugs.
posted by floweredfish at 4:36 AM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Right now, I think it comes down to, for the time being:
1) can you tolerate living in this situation assuming nothing changes?
2) can you tolerate living in this situation assuming nothing changes and you understand that you are not friends, this is a business relationship (e.g. Roommates only)?
3) do you feel safe?
There are other things to consider as well, but mostly, would you be ok living in this situation?
I know what my answer would be, but YMMV.
I would say absolutely not and start the move out process. While you are working on that, I'd ensure you can lock your room or belongings while you are not home. I would not trust these people one iota. Like you said, things are not so bad right now, which is helpful because you can spend a little time finding a better living situation.
Definitely move though. While this may be arm's length tolerable, albeit annoying, right now, this situation has complete ability to spiral into a complete disaster where I eventually envision you tiptoeing around these people and their escapades which will eventually come INTO the the house like a tsunami. More than that, this does have potential to turn into a shitstorm of feeling unsafe in your own house if you don't already.
If that roommate made a move NOW as did his buddy, I wouldn't put it past them to see which one could sleep with you first. This sounds way harsh, but to these people, everything and everyone is viewed as disposable and for their entertainment. There could be potential for the friend to cover up your roommate's behavior as a "witness" also if he does something like corner you into a room. Not good at all. Again, not trying to scare you, but just saying that people of this variety do not give a fuck about anything other than what they want. It sounds like they turn into different people, not helpful or friendly whil drinking.
I know moving sucks, but I really encourage to initiate operation GTFO.
And FWIW, in my experience, the women who are ok with this sort of bullshit either are suffering from crippling self esteem issues, are not independent thinkers, think they can do the same PUA nonsense, are in the total rebound or are just attention seekers looking in the wrong format.
You do not compute with these people. That's ok! And good job listening to your gut. Move out, get sanctuary and find sound more compatible people. Please be safe in the meantime. Home should be a safe space and these are not safe people. Hugs.
posted by floweredfish at 4:36 AM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
It was totally creepy and Not Cool for your roommate and his friends to make (drunken) passes at (drunken) you. It was bound to create an uncomfortable situation eventually even if it had gone to plan in the moment. A potential deal breaker for sure.
The other side of your concern is less clear cut - it's not totally obvious why you think these casual non exclusive "relationships" your roommate is engaged in are demeaning to the women who are involved in them. Maybe there was something I missed but it sounds more about a difference in values between yourself and these other folks than ambiguous consent or something genuinely skeevy - I guess I would default to assuming that the women these guys are talking about and sleeping with are adults and are knowingly and willfully choosing to be with guys who may not be very nice or whom you would never choose as partners.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 4:39 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
The other side of your concern is less clear cut - it's not totally obvious why you think these casual non exclusive "relationships" your roommate is engaged in are demeaning to the women who are involved in them. Maybe there was something I missed but it sounds more about a difference in values between yourself and these other folks than ambiguous consent or something genuinely skeevy - I guess I would default to assuming that the women these guys are talking about and sleeping with are adults and are knowingly and willfully choosing to be with guys who may not be very nice or whom you would never choose as partners.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 4:39 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
... this situation has complete ability to spiral into a complete disaster...
Yeah, this is how it's going when it's going well. He's keeping it mostly outside the house for now, but it doesn't sound like a very stable situation, on a couple of levels. Hopefully you are absolutely clear with each other about stuff like guests staying over and all the other potential housemate pitfalls.
posted by BibiRose at 4:55 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this is how it's going when it's going well. He's keeping it mostly outside the house for now, but it doesn't sound like a very stable situation, on a couple of levels. Hopefully you are absolutely clear with each other about stuff like guests staying over and all the other potential housemate pitfalls.
posted by BibiRose at 4:55 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
FloweredFish's question "Do you feel safe?" is an important one that you really need to consider above all else.
This whole situation does not sound safe to me, but I am a grumpy old man.
You may think they have moved on, but they will circle back around, I guarantee it.
Please use that money that you are saving to find another place, with a better roommate.
Being frugal, finding a man and having a better social life can best be served elsewhere.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 5:02 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
This whole situation does not sound safe to me, but I am a grumpy old man.
You may think they have moved on, but they will circle back around, I guarantee it.
Please use that money that you are saving to find another place, with a better roommate.
Being frugal, finding a man and having a better social life can best be served elsewhere.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 5:02 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Frankly it just sounds like these people are at best going to irritate the shit out of you. If after a few weeks it's bugging you then it's certainly going to bug you in a few months. One of the great and glorious things about share-housing is that if you find yourself in a situation where you are not compatible living with people you can just more the fuck out.
As a veteran of many sharehouses, though, I'd just caution:
One of the things I was hoping for with a housemate is to increase my social circle and maybe meet some new men.
I'd be wary about using your housemates as a source of potential dating partners. If you do so and break up, your home life can become quite unpleasant, especially if your housemate's friend is more valuable to him than you are.
posted by Jilder at 5:06 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
As a veteran of many sharehouses, though, I'd just caution:
One of the things I was hoping for with a housemate is to increase my social circle and maybe meet some new men.
I'd be wary about using your housemates as a source of potential dating partners. If you do so and break up, your home life can become quite unpleasant, especially if your housemate's friend is more valuable to him than you are.
posted by Jilder at 5:06 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
You had a mostly different set of complaints about this same roommate last week. It seems clear you are not comfortable with this living situation, so yes, you should move out.
posted by chaiminda at 5:08 AM on December 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by chaiminda at 5:08 AM on December 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
Agree with Ruthless Bunny. Perhaps eventually move out if you just can't stand living with people, but for now...your housemate is considerate and helpful? He pays the rent and doesn't stick you with his share of bills? Helps with chores? Doesn't pee on the bathroom floor or clog the toilet and make you pay for the plumber? I would have killed for a housemate like that years ago.
posted by Melismata at 5:13 AM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 5:13 AM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Is your main issue the fact that he lives this lifestyle or that he says things that are demeaning to women? If the former, it's none of your business. If the latter though, it's legit to call him out on it. If he says something offensive, point out why it's a problem and ask him not to do it around you. Since it sounds like you're willing and able to move out if this ends up negatively affecting your relationship, and a bit of feminist consciousness raising could be something that improves his life too.
That said, as a woman who enjoys casual sex, I'm offended that you think I'm putting myself in a "demeaning position." You're not into casual sex; that's cool! But thinking mean or pitying thoughts about women who aren't like you can be seen as just as offensive as the "objectifying" you see your housemate doing.
posted by metasarah at 5:21 AM on December 1, 2015 [29 favorites]
That said, as a woman who enjoys casual sex, I'm offended that you think I'm putting myself in a "demeaning position." You're not into casual sex; that's cool! But thinking mean or pitying thoughts about women who aren't like you can be seen as just as offensive as the "objectifying" you see your housemate doing.
posted by metasarah at 5:21 AM on December 1, 2015 [29 favorites]
i don't want to get into the whole judging thing (especially since male), but living with people is hard and chaiminda has a good point that this isn't the first issue with these people.
moving is a nuisance too. often when i was living with people it was a fixed period (eg until i graduated). if that's the case here you may just want to tough it out. but if this is an open-ended affair then i'd suggest looking for somewhere new. not because these are good or bad people particularly, but because you're not happy. better to start looking now so that you can spend some time finding somewhere you feel a better fit, rather than waiting and having to do everything in a rush when you become too unhappy to stay.
in summary: skipping who is good and bad here, it sounds like you would be happier moving. so start looking now, unless you know this is a relatively short term state that you can last out.
posted by andrewcooke at 6:13 AM on December 1, 2015
moving is a nuisance too. often when i was living with people it was a fixed period (eg until i graduated). if that's the case here you may just want to tough it out. but if this is an open-ended affair then i'd suggest looking for somewhere new. not because these are good or bad people particularly, but because you're not happy. better to start looking now so that you can spend some time finding somewhere you feel a better fit, rather than waiting and having to do everything in a rush when you become too unhappy to stay.
in summary: skipping who is good and bad here, it sounds like you would be happier moving. so start looking now, unless you know this is a relatively short term state that you can last out.
posted by andrewcooke at 6:13 AM on December 1, 2015
From this and your previous question you seem to get into all kinds of situations related to roommates - being upset they are talking over you, female ones who are jealous of your dating, having trouble being platonic friends with this one, having introvert-extrovert issues, and now monitoring your housemate's behavior. I think probably you need to see if you can swing some kind of solo housing arrangement.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:19 AM on December 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 6:19 AM on December 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
I put up with roommates I didn't like/respect for a long time. When I finally lived with a friend I adored, my whole quality of life improved. We did nice things for each other just out of affection! Staying home became a fun event when we'd spontaneously make cookies and train the cat to stand up! I looked forward to coming home from work to hear my roommate's thoughts about whatever was going on in my life! If we needed time alone to chill or concentrate, there was no weirdness! It was great! Go find someone you like living with- home should feel safe and comfortable. Get outta there!
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:23 AM on December 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:23 AM on December 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Putting aside everything else in your question (because I think others have addressed it better than I would), I personally would not feel comfortable living with someone platonically when they have tried to be romantic and/or sexual with me, and especially if their friends try the same thing. All it takes is one person to get hung up on you and then you have a really uncomfortable living situation.
posted by possibilityleft at 6:29 AM on December 1, 2015
posted by possibilityleft at 6:29 AM on December 1, 2015
Response by poster: Just wanted to add that I feel safe in terms of my well-being. I felt that in all cases my boundaries were respected. For the case of clarity, I also may have unintentionally lead on people that made the moves (as I had a lot to drink too) - but no was taken as a no and there were no repeated attempts.
posted by sabina_r at 6:50 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sabina_r at 6:50 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it really depends on what your other options are! This is all well within the realm of "not-great but OK roommate" for me. If he pays the bills and doesn't leave dishes in the sink, he doesn't sound like a terrible roommate, so long as you stop thinking you might be friends with him (and probably that means cutting back on hanging out with him and/or calling him on it when he says something offensive). You're not ever going to be FRIENDS with this guy. You may even want to avoid this guy. But you can still save money on rent and utilities with this guy.
If you have somewhere better to go, go live there. But nothing you're describing sounds that bad to me.
(There are circumstances where I would be concerned about a housemate who came on to me, but it sounds like this guy just comes on to everyone - there's no reason to think he is/will become hung up on you.)
posted by mskyle at 7:05 AM on December 1, 2015
If you have somewhere better to go, go live there. But nothing you're describing sounds that bad to me.
(There are circumstances where I would be concerned about a housemate who came on to me, but it sounds like this guy just comes on to everyone - there's no reason to think he is/will become hung up on you.)
posted by mskyle at 7:05 AM on December 1, 2015
I'm really not trying to get harpy, but just wanted to gently note that "having some drinks" in no way constitutes "leading someone on". This is a double sided issue and not solely yours in ownership.
It's your home too, not just you living in his home and sharing rent.
I'm really happy that you set boundaries by saying no and even more happy that they seemed to respect that at the time, I think it just shouldn't be ruled out that they will probably try to put a move on again in the future. It's boundary testing, and I wouldn't be surprised if they try to test that boundary again, especially since you will have "known them for a bit by then".
Just be careful, keep listening to your gut and keep your wits about you.
posted by floweredfish at 7:20 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's your home too, not just you living in his home and sharing rent.
I'm really happy that you set boundaries by saying no and even more happy that they seemed to respect that at the time, I think it just shouldn't be ruled out that they will probably try to put a move on again in the future. It's boundary testing, and I wouldn't be surprised if they try to test that boundary again, especially since you will have "known them for a bit by then".
Just be careful, keep listening to your gut and keep your wits about you.
posted by floweredfish at 7:20 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have had several roommates over the years with whom I did not necessarily agree with how they spent their free time, but they were good roommates. They cleaned, they minded their own business and they were enjoyable to hang around the living room with. I was perfectly comfortable separating their outside life from their apartment/roommate life. This is a personal preference sort of thing, but I happen to think it is fine to live with someone you might not want to hang out with or disagree with lifestyle.
posted by AugustWest at 7:55 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 7:55 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am glad you feel safe and not at all threatened. So with that part taken into account...
1. I am really surprised that so many women go for these arrangements. Why would they even put themselves in such a demeaning position?
Because casual sex and FWB hookups are not demeaning. You might choose not to engage in them and that's fine, but it is also the point: individual women get to make their own independent choices about what they want to do with their own individual sexualities.
So really, I would invite you to use this as an opportunity to examine your own judgements about other women's choices.
2. It's the talk of objectifying women and constantly commenting on their looks that I find hard to stomach.
It's your home. You have a right to not be subjected to that in your own home. You have successfully laid down boundaries before and I would invite you to do so again. Talk to your housemate and straight up tell him: "You are a great housemate and I like living here. I have no problem with your friends hanging here. But having to here their talk of objectifying women and constantly commenting on their looks isn't something that makes me feel comfortable or at home here. Can you cut that shit off when it happens? It's really uncool."
posted by DarlingBri at 8:16 AM on December 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
1. I am really surprised that so many women go for these arrangements. Why would they even put themselves in such a demeaning position?
Because casual sex and FWB hookups are not demeaning. You might choose not to engage in them and that's fine, but it is also the point: individual women get to make their own independent choices about what they want to do with their own individual sexualities.
So really, I would invite you to use this as an opportunity to examine your own judgements about other women's choices.
2. It's the talk of objectifying women and constantly commenting on their looks that I find hard to stomach.
It's your home. You have a right to not be subjected to that in your own home. You have successfully laid down boundaries before and I would invite you to do so again. Talk to your housemate and straight up tell him: "You are a great housemate and I like living here. I have no problem with your friends hanging here. But having to here their talk of objectifying women and constantly commenting on their looks isn't something that makes me feel comfortable or at home here. Can you cut that shit off when it happens? It's really uncool."
posted by DarlingBri at 8:16 AM on December 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
I think your expectations, that you will expand your social circle through your roommate, are understandable but totally unreasonable. When you move in with a stranger, it's a business arrangement. You are splitting costs by sharing space. You can't expect to move into someone's life just because you've moved into their house. I think the key here, should you decide to stay, is to keep your lives as separate as possible. His friends sound unsuitable to date, anyway, as you find them immature.
warriorqueen's comment made me read your question history, and to me it seems like your questions often stem from your expectations about friendships/relationships. You might want to develop friendships completely separate from your home or work lives to escape any related drama. Can you go to some meetups for a hobby you do, or take an adult ed class, something like that? That might be your best bet.
You are the best judge of whether you can stay in this apartment or not. I think your disappointment at the objectifying of women that your roommate and his friends are doing is totally reasonable, but I think if you weren't looking for new friends and potentially a new BF, you might care a little less. Have a chat with your roommate and see how it goes.
Good luck with the decision! There is nothing worse than a stressful living environment. Your home should be your sanctuary.
posted by clone boulevard at 8:37 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
warriorqueen's comment made me read your question history, and to me it seems like your questions often stem from your expectations about friendships/relationships. You might want to develop friendships completely separate from your home or work lives to escape any related drama. Can you go to some meetups for a hobby you do, or take an adult ed class, something like that? That might be your best bet.
You are the best judge of whether you can stay in this apartment or not. I think your disappointment at the objectifying of women that your roommate and his friends are doing is totally reasonable, but I think if you weren't looking for new friends and potentially a new BF, you might care a little less. Have a chat with your roommate and see how it goes.
Good luck with the decision! There is nothing worse than a stressful living environment. Your home should be your sanctuary.
posted by clone boulevard at 8:37 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It sounds like what is bothering you is that you can't resolve the "respectful responsible roommate" and "player" characters in your head. One is always good, one is always bad.
I'm here to say, try not to think so black and white. I've met a few guys who were decent people AND very confident casual daters. (And lots of guys talk about womens bodies when we're not there.) It is totally possible that these seemingly incongruent personalities exist in one person. We are all multitudes.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:34 AM on December 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm here to say, try not to think so black and white. I've met a few guys who were decent people AND very confident casual daters. (And lots of guys talk about womens bodies when we're not there.) It is totally possible that these seemingly incongruent personalities exist in one person. We are all multitudes.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:34 AM on December 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Personally, there are so many worse things I've encountered with roommates (people who have no respect for personal boundaries, never do chores, don't pay things they're supposed to, are hostile, etc.) that I would count this as an okay flaw in a roommate and not want to move unless something better happens to come along.
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:39 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:39 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is sort of the default folks are being pushed into these days due to the hookup culture. Unless he does something bad, I say stick with it. Keep your boundaries. Its okay to want less of a friendship.
Are you still feeling attracted to him?
posted by Ironmouth at 11:01 AM on December 1, 2015
Are you still feeling attracted to him?
posted by Ironmouth at 11:01 AM on December 1, 2015
Why would they even put themselves in such a demeaning position?
You need to work on this attitude. It is the reason you're feeling the way you do.
Since you don't feel unsafe and this seems related to your judging them, I think it's something you have to work on. Or you can roll the dice again, but there are far worse roommate horror stories out there.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:36 PM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
You need to work on this attitude. It is the reason you're feeling the way you do.
Since you don't feel unsafe and this seems related to your judging them, I think it's something you have to work on. Or you can roll the dice again, but there are far worse roommate horror stories out there.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:36 PM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I kind of want to come to the defence of the OP - I don't think she was saying that women who engage in casual sex are demeaning themselves, I think she means, in the context of the probably horrifying remarks these males make about their sex partners, it's probably shocking to her that they even find women who agree to sleep with them.
She probably wonders, as I do, if they are entirely different people to the faces of these women. She is getting to see their 'true' natures, an awful, unwanted insight.
I think their attitudes towards women cannot help but encompass how they see you. They obviously see you, as a woman, as fair game, as they've already demonstrated. Which is quite hideous. It doesn't necessarily make them people to be feared, but the story of them making a move after a few drinks is quite worrying. That they're only 'courageous' enough to make a move when inhibitions are lowered, lines are blurred.
Ultimately, weigh up the pros and cons. Surely you could find a not too expensive room, with a considerate housemate, who has a social circle you could involve yourself in. If that last one was your main goal in share housing, then yes, you should look for another place.
I know I wouldn't be able to handle hearing this kind of conversation. And again, the fact that you're a woman, shows their lack of respect for you.
posted by NatalieWood at 12:52 PM on December 1, 2015
She probably wonders, as I do, if they are entirely different people to the faces of these women. She is getting to see their 'true' natures, an awful, unwanted insight.
I think their attitudes towards women cannot help but encompass how they see you. They obviously see you, as a woman, as fair game, as they've already demonstrated. Which is quite hideous. It doesn't necessarily make them people to be feared, but the story of them making a move after a few drinks is quite worrying. That they're only 'courageous' enough to make a move when inhibitions are lowered, lines are blurred.
Ultimately, weigh up the pros and cons. Surely you could find a not too expensive room, with a considerate housemate, who has a social circle you could involve yourself in. If that last one was your main goal in share housing, then yes, you should look for another place.
I know I wouldn't be able to handle hearing this kind of conversation. And again, the fact that you're a woman, shows their lack of respect for you.
posted by NatalieWood at 12:52 PM on December 1, 2015
Response by poster: Just to answer a few questions:
1. Casual sex thing: it's not that I judge on the casual sex itself. Sure, if everything is out in the open it's a fair game. But like last poster said, they make pretty awful comments once these women leave. I really wonder how they present themselves to the women. Women ARE in the deaming position if they have the full information (which they probably don't).
2. My housemate also seems very judgy about the women that sleep around. I have already had numerous discussions with him on this and the good thing is that he is not agressive and is willing to accept my point of view.
3. No, once I got to know him better, I am not attracted to him at all, no way, no how.
4. Regarding "the moves", I think they are no big deal because put in the larger context, they make moves on anyone female it seems. They were just testing my boundaries.
5. I deal with it all by being sarcastic in a joke-y dismissive way. I think they already see me as one of the guys, housemate even started adding "dude" when talking to me (lol).
posted by sabina_r at 9:39 PM on December 1, 2015
1. Casual sex thing: it's not that I judge on the casual sex itself. Sure, if everything is out in the open it's a fair game. But like last poster said, they make pretty awful comments once these women leave. I really wonder how they present themselves to the women. Women ARE in the deaming position if they have the full information (which they probably don't).
2. My housemate also seems very judgy about the women that sleep around. I have already had numerous discussions with him on this and the good thing is that he is not agressive and is willing to accept my point of view.
3. No, once I got to know him better, I am not attracted to him at all, no way, no how.
4. Regarding "the moves", I think they are no big deal because put in the larger context, they make moves on anyone female it seems. They were just testing my boundaries.
5. I deal with it all by being sarcastic in a joke-y dismissive way. I think they already see me as one of the guys, housemate even started adding "dude" when talking to me (lol).
posted by sabina_r at 9:39 PM on December 1, 2015
I would move if I were you. It sounds awful to spend lots of time with people who don't share your values. These guys sound like scumbags, especially because they withhold full information from women in order to access their bodies, emotions, and time. I feel awful just reading your question. Casual sex is okay among consenting adults. There isn't real consent without full information. People who haven't been on the wrong side of this equation, of being somehow persuaded into a sexual relationship without having full information to make the best decisions for themselves, don't understand that it's awful behavior. There is a player lifestyle and I think a lot of these guys are the lowest of the low in society. Especially as a female, I couldn't live with it, work around it, or have it in any way touch my life. So, yes, I would move if I were you.
Also, your housemate should be respecting your boundaries, not testing them. He should leave a wide margin, not test how narrow it is. It's not okay for a housemate to "test your boundaries" especially when it comes to the physical.
Conversations or talking it out won't help. It doesn't matter if he's not aggressive in conversation. He doesn't share your values in his real actions.
I'm sorry you're in this situation.
posted by omg_parrots at 7:54 AM on December 3, 2015
Also, your housemate should be respecting your boundaries, not testing them. He should leave a wide margin, not test how narrow it is. It's not okay for a housemate to "test your boundaries" especially when it comes to the physical.
Conversations or talking it out won't help. It doesn't matter if he's not aggressive in conversation. He doesn't share your values in his real actions.
I'm sorry you're in this situation.
posted by omg_parrots at 7:54 AM on December 3, 2015
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uhhhhh No. I would move out pronto and probably not even be that subtle about telling them why.
I also think constantly hearing them talk this way and behave in this manner will mentally effect you over time. I mean, it's obviously already affecting you. I can't imagine hearing that kind of shit day in and day out in a space where you should feel safe and comfortable. Good housemates are more than just keeping the kitchen tidy. It comes down to respect. If they treat women in general this way, I would not like to know what they think and say about you behind your back. It's a bit much to expect that you will be some sort of exception.
posted by like_neon at 4:16 AM on December 1, 2015