I don't even
November 26, 2015 12:45 AM Subscribe
The other day my partner did something and I am in still in shock. I can't think rationally about how to approach it and I am struggling with how to process it.
I woke up early and showered first. While I was in the shower I heard my partner come into the bathroom, use the toilet, flush, etc and leave. As I was drying off from my shower, our small child came in, very groggy, to use the bathroom. I assisted lifting the toilet lid and was surprised to find droplets covering the seat. I'd seen this pattern repeatedly before and had assumed it was from either my partner taking a shower and somehow getting water everywhere or my child being mischievous. I realize now how naive I was. This time it was very unambiguously urine. Urine all over the seat, and on both sides of the floor next to the toilet. For me this is a level of grossness I did not think any sane person would ever do in their own home. I can't think of any excuse for this to occur multiple times. An accidental drop or two, I get, and am certainly guilty of myself, but this was beyond anything I would ever dream is acceptable.
I have been struggling with how to approach this with my partner. I feel that I need to address this because I recognize now this is a pattern that has happened previously and I feel very strongly I should not and will not put up with it in the future. Had my child not come in needing to go, I would have addressed it right away, but I had to quickly clean it so they could sit and by the time I had a chance to talk about it I was just too seething mad. As the primary cleaner, I feel disrespected. As another human I am grossed out. As a parent, I do not want this to be my child's "normal".
Now the tricky part. My partner deals with severe depression. Pointing out any areas of adulthood that require attention which are things that most people just do on their own seems to very quickly snowball into the "I fail at parenting, I fail at life, you don't deserve me, etc," attitude. If I need to provide reminders, suddenly I must think my partner is the worst, no matter how I approach it, gently, or humorously, casually is seriously. (My partnter does not actively try to manage the depression or seek medical care for it.)
I'm at a loss. My child is a toddler and apparently has mastered toilet use better than their parent. Where do I even go from here?
I woke up early and showered first. While I was in the shower I heard my partner come into the bathroom, use the toilet, flush, etc and leave. As I was drying off from my shower, our small child came in, very groggy, to use the bathroom. I assisted lifting the toilet lid and was surprised to find droplets covering the seat. I'd seen this pattern repeatedly before and had assumed it was from either my partner taking a shower and somehow getting water everywhere or my child being mischievous. I realize now how naive I was. This time it was very unambiguously urine. Urine all over the seat, and on both sides of the floor next to the toilet. For me this is a level of grossness I did not think any sane person would ever do in their own home. I can't think of any excuse for this to occur multiple times. An accidental drop or two, I get, and am certainly guilty of myself, but this was beyond anything I would ever dream is acceptable.
I have been struggling with how to approach this with my partner. I feel that I need to address this because I recognize now this is a pattern that has happened previously and I feel very strongly I should not and will not put up with it in the future. Had my child not come in needing to go, I would have addressed it right away, but I had to quickly clean it so they could sit and by the time I had a chance to talk about it I was just too seething mad. As the primary cleaner, I feel disrespected. As another human I am grossed out. As a parent, I do not want this to be my child's "normal".
Now the tricky part. My partner deals with severe depression. Pointing out any areas of adulthood that require attention which are things that most people just do on their own seems to very quickly snowball into the "I fail at parenting, I fail at life, you don't deserve me, etc," attitude. If I need to provide reminders, suddenly I must think my partner is the worst, no matter how I approach it, gently, or humorously, casually is seriously. (My partnter does not actively try to manage the depression or seek medical care for it.)
I'm at a loss. My child is a toddler and apparently has mastered toilet use better than their parent. Where do I even go from here?
Are you absolutely sure that the child wasn't responsible?
posted by intensitymultiply at 2:03 AM on November 26, 2015
posted by intensitymultiply at 2:03 AM on November 26, 2015
Depression is not a "get out of adulting free" card. And, personally for me, untreated depression is not a valid excuse (I say "if you are depressed than you should be under medical care, if you are not under medical care and following all recommendations than you are choosing this behaviour").
My personal experience has been that with someone that is avoiding responsibilty as you describe the only solution is to raise your expectations for them, refuse to get sidetracked in conversations about how your expectations that they act adult makes them feel ("we are discussing your behaviour and how it impacts other people; you should talk to a medical professional about your feelings of failure as I am not your therapist"), and get help for yourself in building a support system to keep you healthy.
Depression causes cognitive distortions; behaviour, however, is a choice. Your partner is choosing to behave this way because so far the consequences (on them) have been less onerous than changing their behaviour.
Why are YOU the primary cleaner? Is your partner not pulling their weight in this relationship parenting/cleaning-wise? That isn't something you should just settle for.
posted by saucysault at 2:14 AM on November 26, 2015 [30 favorites]
My personal experience has been that with someone that is avoiding responsibilty as you describe the only solution is to raise your expectations for them, refuse to get sidetracked in conversations about how your expectations that they act adult makes them feel ("we are discussing your behaviour and how it impacts other people; you should talk to a medical professional about your feelings of failure as I am not your therapist"), and get help for yourself in building a support system to keep you healthy.
Depression causes cognitive distortions; behaviour, however, is a choice. Your partner is choosing to behave this way because so far the consequences (on them) have been less onerous than changing their behaviour.
Why are YOU the primary cleaner? Is your partner not pulling their weight in this relationship parenting/cleaning-wise? That isn't something you should just settle for.
posted by saucysault at 2:14 AM on November 26, 2015 [30 favorites]
"Hey partner, if you pee on the seat and/or floor by accident can you clean it up? Thanks." This is not a big request and doesn't need to be filled with drama. If he turns it into a drama then yes, there needs to be a talk about how you understand they are depressed but it's simply a hygiene issue, especially with a young child in the house, and nothing more.
posted by billiebee at 2:47 AM on November 26, 2015 [88 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 2:47 AM on November 26, 2015 [88 favorites]
is it possible that he just wasn't awake yet? some people are just really groggy in the mornings. This is not to say they he shouldn't absolutely get treatment for his depression, but there may be a simpler explanation for this particular issue.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:35 AM on November 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:35 AM on November 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
Seconding the question of whether he was not awake yet, or not completely awake.
If yes, then what billiebee said.
posted by rubbish bin night at 3:40 AM on November 26, 2015
If yes, then what billiebee said.
posted by rubbish bin night at 3:40 AM on November 26, 2015
I am struggling with how to phrase this in a supportive manner, because I totally get dealing with loved ones with mental health stuff going on, and I also sympathize with feeling disrespected in household cleaning and maintenance. I get it. I do. But honestly, from your "above the fold" text, I was convinced the rest of the post was going to be "drank two six-packs, then drove home without buckling the baby into the car seat." Or "hit the neighbors dog while backing out of the driveway, and laughed instead of stopping." I'd like to gently suggest if you "can't even" about pee spills in the bathroom, that there is something bigger going on in your relationship. And I think you've already called out the two most likely culprits: feeling disrespected in your family role and living with someone with an untreated mental illness. He needs to get treatment, absolutely. But I also think couples counseling would help you both navigate the underlying issues that are causing this much upset over some pee.
posted by instamatic at 3:55 AM on November 26, 2015 [176 favorites]
posted by instamatic at 3:55 AM on November 26, 2015 [176 favorites]
Sometimes you just need to say what needs to be said. 'Please clean up your pee when you miss the bowl'. Straight to the point, not necessarily a judgement. 'I don't want to clean up your piss'. Seems fair enough. Some things really do need to be said out loud. If they take it badly then that's a different discussion.
posted by h00py at 4:16 AM on November 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by h00py at 4:16 AM on November 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
I too thought this was going to be a post about abuse or severe neglect. This is not to minimize the issue. Pee spillage is gross.
My husband has done that a few times, though not to this extent. Each time I was all "ewwww, dude, clean up that spillage, so gross!"
And he'd be super embarassed and rush to clean it up. Not sure why this happens, but I guess sometimes they don't pay attention?
So what I'm getting at is that the problem is not the pee but the fact that you aren't "allowed" to make your concerns heard in your relationship (because spiral of depression) and this already causes frustration and feelings of not being respected. And you'd think if he makes it impossible for you to complain, he would at least do his utmost to make sure you have no reason to complain. But no, he even fails at this basic level of partner care.
If I have such a deep reaction to being wronged by a partner, like you, it's usually because the thing I'm reacting to is such a perfect symptom of what is wrong between us.
I think once he gets the depression treated and you can have a normal "wtf dude!" conversation with him, things like a pee extravaganza on the toilet seat won't hit you that hard in the guts.
Also, ewwww!
posted by Omnomnom at 4:30 AM on November 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
My husband has done that a few times, though not to this extent. Each time I was all "ewwww, dude, clean up that spillage, so gross!"
And he'd be super embarassed and rush to clean it up. Not sure why this happens, but I guess sometimes they don't pay attention?
So what I'm getting at is that the problem is not the pee but the fact that you aren't "allowed" to make your concerns heard in your relationship (because spiral of depression) and this already causes frustration and feelings of not being respected. And you'd think if he makes it impossible for you to complain, he would at least do his utmost to make sure you have no reason to complain. But no, he even fails at this basic level of partner care.
If I have such a deep reaction to being wronged by a partner, like you, it's usually because the thing I'm reacting to is such a perfect symptom of what is wrong between us.
I think once he gets the depression treated and you can have a normal "wtf dude!" conversation with him, things like a pee extravaganza on the toilet seat won't hit you that hard in the guts.
Also, ewwww!
posted by Omnomnom at 4:30 AM on November 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
Give yourself a day to get some distance from your anger about this.
Depression is different for everybody but the majority of people are able to use the bathroom in a hygienic manner. If your partner seriously can't, that is a sign there might be some other stuff going on with them, but a hygiene issue will remain and you can work together to get assistive devices to help, like a handlebar for stability or maybe just a container of Lysol wipes right next to the toilet so there is almost no barrier to cleanup. (That might be a good idea no matter what!)
One thing depression definitely messes with is sleep, and if they are self-medicating with anything (including over the counter sleep meds or herbal supplements) it is even easier to do the half-asleep toilet thing. Making them aware of the issue and suggesting that they check the bathroom after their coffee/whatever makes them really awake might be what works. It could also be the tipping point that makes them able to start seeking treatment - it's usually relatively small things like this that do it.
Think about other times you have course-corrected with home stuff, or parental stuff. Ever had to have the talk about clearing hair from the shower drain or cleaning the coffee pot or wiping muddy shoes on the doormat or not giving in to certain toddler demands? Treat this issue the same way; just something you need to communicate and make sure they are on the same page as you. Even better if they have had one of those conversations with you - you can allude to that to remind them that you're not perfect either and you're in this relationship together.
Try to disconnect this from the bigger issues at play. If the house has a fire because there is faulty wiring in the walls, you put the fire out before you call the electrician.
I was also expecting something shocking below the fold, but chronic health issues affect family in many ways including catastrophising things like this. If your partner is completely closed to it, you can still seek counseling for yourself. Helping a loved one treat their depression is hard and isolating but you can begin forming a support structure for yourself.
posted by Mizu at 4:31 AM on November 26, 2015
Depression is different for everybody but the majority of people are able to use the bathroom in a hygienic manner. If your partner seriously can't, that is a sign there might be some other stuff going on with them, but a hygiene issue will remain and you can work together to get assistive devices to help, like a handlebar for stability or maybe just a container of Lysol wipes right next to the toilet so there is almost no barrier to cleanup. (That might be a good idea no matter what!)
One thing depression definitely messes with is sleep, and if they are self-medicating with anything (including over the counter sleep meds or herbal supplements) it is even easier to do the half-asleep toilet thing. Making them aware of the issue and suggesting that they check the bathroom after their coffee/whatever makes them really awake might be what works. It could also be the tipping point that makes them able to start seeking treatment - it's usually relatively small things like this that do it.
Think about other times you have course-corrected with home stuff, or parental stuff. Ever had to have the talk about clearing hair from the shower drain or cleaning the coffee pot or wiping muddy shoes on the doormat or not giving in to certain toddler demands? Treat this issue the same way; just something you need to communicate and make sure they are on the same page as you. Even better if they have had one of those conversations with you - you can allude to that to remind them that you're not perfect either and you're in this relationship together.
Try to disconnect this from the bigger issues at play. If the house has a fire because there is faulty wiring in the walls, you put the fire out before you call the electrician.
I was also expecting something shocking below the fold, but chronic health issues affect family in many ways including catastrophising things like this. If your partner is completely closed to it, you can still seek counseling for yourself. Helping a loved one treat their depression is hard and isolating but you can begin forming a support structure for yourself.
posted by Mizu at 4:31 AM on November 26, 2015
This has nothing to do with depression and everything to do with laziness. My husband is messy as hell and he isn't depressed at all!! So far, your spouse has been able to pee all over the place and there's been no repercussions so why should he stop?
You need to
1) Tell him to stop (don't ask). He knows it's disgusting and disrespectful.
2) Tell him that if he repeatedly does it, Y will happen.
For example, when I was a kid and my mother caught us with un-put-away dishes, she'd call us away from WHATEVER we were doing and force us to put our dishes in the dishwasher. Yes, even if we were out with friends! You could try this with your husband.
"Honey, get in here! Junior needs to use the toilet and you peed all over it. Please come and clean it up. Now. Thank you." If he whines, go and stand over him. Be a b*tch about this.
posted by Piedmont_Americana at 4:33 AM on November 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
You need to
1) Tell him to stop (don't ask). He knows it's disgusting and disrespectful.
2) Tell him that if he repeatedly does it, Y will happen.
For example, when I was a kid and my mother caught us with un-put-away dishes, she'd call us away from WHATEVER we were doing and force us to put our dishes in the dishwasher. Yes, even if we were out with friends! You could try this with your husband.
"Honey, get in here! Junior needs to use the toilet and you peed all over it. Please come and clean it up. Now. Thank you." If he whines, go and stand over him. Be a b*tch about this.
posted by Piedmont_Americana at 4:33 AM on November 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
If your husband regularly does this and doesn't bother to clean it up, it means either that he thinks that urine all over the bathroom is okay and normal or that he doesn't have to bother cleaning it up because you'll do it. Urine all over the bathroom isn't really in the realm of normal for most people. Unfortunately, what is within the realm of normal for lots of people in hetero relationships is that the female partner cleans up after the male partner.
So bizarrely sometimes you have to tell people that you do not want to clean up after them. Even when we are talking about something as obvious as pee. Most adults will agree that they would not expect to have to clean up another healthy adult's urine.
I am not unsympathetic to his depression and there are many ways depression can keep you from functioning as you would like but objections to the tune of "I fail at life you don't deserve me" is basically saying you can expect nothing of him and removes any responsibility from him whatsoever. All you are asking him to do is wipe off a toilet seat. If he is incapable of wiping up his own urine due to his depression then this is a valid objection on his part and I guess you shouldn't even raise the issue and resign yourself to being his caretaker. If he is, in fact, capable of wiping up his own urine, then you can remind him of this.
posted by Polychrome at 4:39 AM on November 26, 2015 [14 favorites]
So bizarrely sometimes you have to tell people that you do not want to clean up after them. Even when we are talking about something as obvious as pee. Most adults will agree that they would not expect to have to clean up another healthy adult's urine.
I am not unsympathetic to his depression and there are many ways depression can keep you from functioning as you would like but objections to the tune of "I fail at life you don't deserve me" is basically saying you can expect nothing of him and removes any responsibility from him whatsoever. All you are asking him to do is wipe off a toilet seat. If he is incapable of wiping up his own urine due to his depression then this is a valid objection on his part and I guess you shouldn't even raise the issue and resign yourself to being his caretaker. If he is, in fact, capable of wiping up his own urine, then you can remind him of this.
posted by Polychrome at 4:39 AM on November 26, 2015 [14 favorites]
Just because your partner has depression doesn't give him permission to be slovenly, nor should you be walking on egg shells. You seem to be kind of a Drama Llama insofar as blowing this all out of proportion. Yes, it's nasty and he's nasty for doing it, but it's not "I don't even," territory.
I'd bring it up right now, "I noticed the other day that you peed all over the toilet seat and floor. WTF dude? I had to clean it because the baby came in to use the john. Don't let this happen again, this isn't a zoo."
Peeing on the seat isn't the issue, untreated depression is. You need to sit down with your partner and tell him, "I am tired of tiptoeing around you because of your depression, I wouldn't let you walk around with untreated diabetes and I'm not letting this go either. You need to get to a doctor and seek treatment."
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:47 AM on November 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'd bring it up right now, "I noticed the other day that you peed all over the toilet seat and floor. WTF dude? I had to clean it because the baby came in to use the john. Don't let this happen again, this isn't a zoo."
Peeing on the seat isn't the issue, untreated depression is. You need to sit down with your partner and tell him, "I am tired of tiptoeing around you because of your depression, I wouldn't let you walk around with untreated diabetes and I'm not letting this go either. You need to get to a doctor and seek treatment."
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:47 AM on November 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Could there be underlying urological issues at play? Could not cleaning up be a sign of denial?
posted by lumensimus at 6:16 AM on November 26, 2015
posted by lumensimus at 6:16 AM on November 26, 2015
For comments about this being overblown: I actually thought it was a joke at first. This is the disturbing incident? Peeing? Really? But I thought about it a bit and tried to put myself in her shoes and I think I understand. If this was my partner and I had ruled out other possibilities, I would also be disturbed by this. I encourage everyone to set aside their initial reactions and really try and walk through the scenario she outlined as if it were you. Some things that jumped out at me were: 1) She had just gotten clean 2) This was an considerable amount of urine. 3) Morning urine tends to be more pigmented (arguably grosser) 4) Urinating on things can be an act of aggression.
All that being said: I would first need to rule out 1) sleepwalking 2) grogginess/blurry vision 3) A 2 pronged stream of urine. A male friend of mine once explained that sometimes urine does not come out in a single stream, which makes a big difference when trying to aim. I imagine if this were happening, coupled with blurry morning vision, the result could be pretty messy.
posted by unicornologist at 6:43 AM on November 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
All that being said: I would first need to rule out 1) sleepwalking 2) grogginess/blurry vision 3) A 2 pronged stream of urine. A male friend of mine once explained that sometimes urine does not come out in a single stream, which makes a big difference when trying to aim. I imagine if this were happening, coupled with blurry morning vision, the result could be pretty messy.
posted by unicornologist at 6:43 AM on November 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, when men are standing to pee, the seat and ground are much further away and more difficult to see...
In any case, this sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back. Sure it's gross but in the scheme of life not that bad. It's not like he was shitting in the pots and pans and blaming it on the dog.
It sounds like he's depressed, hasn't been a good partner for a long time, and you've had enough of his shit. He's got to own up to being a responsible adult. How long has it been since he's been one?
As someone who has suffered with depression in the past, I wasn't exactly aware of what was going on, but once it was brought to my attention, I got help. I'm not saying that bringing it to my attention and getting me motivated to get help was easy for me or my wife.
Good luck.
posted by reddot at 6:56 AM on November 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
In any case, this sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back. Sure it's gross but in the scheme of life not that bad. It's not like he was shitting in the pots and pans and blaming it on the dog.
It sounds like he's depressed, hasn't been a good partner for a long time, and you've had enough of his shit. He's got to own up to being a responsible adult. How long has it been since he's been one?
As someone who has suffered with depression in the past, I wasn't exactly aware of what was going on, but once it was brought to my attention, I got help. I'm not saying that bringing it to my attention and getting me motivated to get help was easy for me or my wife.
Good luck.
posted by reddot at 6:56 AM on November 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
My not depressive husband did the same thing when I first married him so it's as not out of the ordinary as you might think. . I am assuming your partner is male, because this tends to be a male problem. The problem was worse for the morning pee because of morning wood. You are right to think it's gross.
Honestly if you've had serious discussions about his depression & he's depressed & not seeking help for it then he is using his depression & the whining about it to get out of responsibilities. Your partner has an illness that can respond well to treatment. I get that one of the side effects of depression is finding it hard to go & get treatment, but to be I've also seen such similar "breast beating" of Oh I'm the worst etc ever being used to deflect reasons to change. Your partner has has a child they need to share responsibility for caring for, I think you may need to talk about more than pee.
Things I found useful for my not depressed husband was to leave those disposable disinfectant wipes on the back of the toilet after mentioning the problem to him. After he seemed half assed about it, we swapped jobs so toilet cleaning became his job, after a few weeks of having to take care of the aftermath his aim got much better.
posted by wwax at 7:39 AM on November 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
Honestly if you've had serious discussions about his depression & he's depressed & not seeking help for it then he is using his depression & the whining about it to get out of responsibilities. Your partner has an illness that can respond well to treatment. I get that one of the side effects of depression is finding it hard to go & get treatment, but to be I've also seen such similar "breast beating" of Oh I'm the worst etc ever being used to deflect reasons to change. Your partner has has a child they need to share responsibility for caring for, I think you may need to talk about more than pee.
Things I found useful for my not depressed husband was to leave those disposable disinfectant wipes on the back of the toilet after mentioning the problem to him. After he seemed half assed about it, we swapped jobs so toilet cleaning became his job, after a few weeks of having to take care of the aftermath his aim got much better.
posted by wwax at 7:39 AM on November 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
I used to share a house with a guy who used to pee on the seat a bit because he was too much of an arsehole to lift the seat. We had words, he refused to make any changes to his behaviour. My feelings were that this was contemptuous of all the other people in the house who had to use the toilet, clean his piss off before sitting down etc. For me this fitted into that category of actions which one cannot control but which are indicative of someone who privileges themselves over others and refuses to hold themselves to the basic level of respect for others that they would expect. I found this very frustrating to deal with. To have this from a partner? I can sympathise entirely with the poster and do not feel it is a big overreaction.
posted by biffa at 7:58 AM on November 26, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by biffa at 7:58 AM on November 26, 2015 [13 favorites]
I don't really have any answers to your question but popped in to say I don't think you're over-reacting and I'm surprised others are suggesting that it's somehow ok or there are mitigating factors. Fine, he gets pee on the seat, accidents happen, women sometimes get period marks on the seat (though urine all over the floor suggests it's not an ordinary accident). But you know what? You share the toilet with other people and you remain aware of how you use a shared space and you clean up after yourself. Unless you are in fact experiencing some sort of debilitating depression you do this even if you don't share the toilet with others. There is a fundamental disrespect here which I would also struggle with. This may be a symptom of untreated depression, in fact I'm sure it is, but you are absolutely justified in being upset.
posted by tavegyl at 8:39 AM on November 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by tavegyl at 8:39 AM on November 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
For me this is a level of grossness I did not think any sane person would ever do in their own home. I can't think of any excuse for this to occur multiple times. An accidental drop or two, I get, and am certainly guilty of myself, but this was beyond anything I would ever dream is acceptable.
I get that you're not stoked about this, but it's just pee. It's a thing you should work on, certainly, but in the short term it's not causing a public health mess in your house, so try to get perspective on the level of urgency here. I'm with other people here that it seems like you're Just Done with this guy and something needs to change but it sounds like both of you need to move towards the middle on this one.
- partner needs therapy or SOMETHING because that's just part of being a team, taking care of your own physical and mental health
- you need a way to outline terms of keeping the bathroom clean if you are the primary cleaner (or consider maybe not doing that)
- partner needs to find ways to not pee on the seat (could have been awakeness or just VISION) which could just be sitting down to pee as a good faith step until this is more resolved.
- don't worry about the kid except to not make this into a Thing (they will be more likely to remember parents fighting about this than takeaway lessons on How To Pee, they are also more likely to watch partner not take care of themselves mentally and see that as a thing and that's what I would be concerned about)
I feel for you, this sounds stressful. That said it also sounds like you guys are trapped in a bad cycle together and that needs to be broken out of by doing something different than what is happening now. Only you can determine what's dealbreaker-style level of crap you are dealing with but for me peeing on the seat would not be that but my partner not taking care of their own mental health would be.
posted by jessamyn at 9:02 AM on November 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
I get that you're not stoked about this, but it's just pee. It's a thing you should work on, certainly, but in the short term it's not causing a public health mess in your house, so try to get perspective on the level of urgency here. I'm with other people here that it seems like you're Just Done with this guy and something needs to change but it sounds like both of you need to move towards the middle on this one.
- partner needs therapy or SOMETHING because that's just part of being a team, taking care of your own physical and mental health
- you need a way to outline terms of keeping the bathroom clean if you are the primary cleaner (or consider maybe not doing that)
- partner needs to find ways to not pee on the seat (could have been awakeness or just VISION) which could just be sitting down to pee as a good faith step until this is more resolved.
- don't worry about the kid except to not make this into a Thing (they will be more likely to remember parents fighting about this than takeaway lessons on How To Pee, they are also more likely to watch partner not take care of themselves mentally and see that as a thing and that's what I would be concerned about)
I feel for you, this sounds stressful. That said it also sounds like you guys are trapped in a bad cycle together and that needs to be broken out of by doing something different than what is happening now. Only you can determine what's dealbreaker-style level of crap you are dealing with but for me peeing on the seat would not be that but my partner not taking care of their own mental health would be.
posted by jessamyn at 9:02 AM on November 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Pointing out any areas of adulthood that require attention which are things that most people just do on their own seems to very quickly snowball into the "I fail at parenting, I fail at life, you don't deserve me, etc," attitude. If I need to provide reminders, suddenly I must think my partner is the worst, no matter how I approach it, gently, or humorously, casually is seriously. (My partner does not actively try to manage the depression or seek medical care for it.)
Your partner is holding you, and possibly your children, emotionally hostage to his untreated mood disorder. The fact that you can't have a direct adult conversation with him without triggering an avalanche of guilt-tripping and (possibly sincere) woe-is-me-ing makes me upset for you.
I too would very overwhelmed in a relationship where I was doing all the cleaning (and childcare?) and couldn't just directly say, "Hey partner, don't piss on the toilet seat, okay?"
Parents and partners who use their illness to control and crush the needs/desires/requests of people around them are really harmful. I grew up in a household like that and it was so rough. Putting the pee incident aside, I think you and your partner need a plan for treatment of his depression and his inability to hear suggestions for ways he might improve you life together without falling into a misery spiral.
posted by Squeak Attack at 11:42 AM on November 26, 2015 [24 favorites]
Your partner is holding you, and possibly your children, emotionally hostage to his untreated mood disorder. The fact that you can't have a direct adult conversation with him without triggering an avalanche of guilt-tripping and (possibly sincere) woe-is-me-ing makes me upset for you.
I too would very overwhelmed in a relationship where I was doing all the cleaning (and childcare?) and couldn't just directly say, "Hey partner, don't piss on the toilet seat, okay?"
Parents and partners who use their illness to control and crush the needs/desires/requests of people around them are really harmful. I grew up in a household like that and it was so rough. Putting the pee incident aside, I think you and your partner need a plan for treatment of his depression and his inability to hear suggestions for ways he might improve you life together without falling into a misery spiral.
posted by Squeak Attack at 11:42 AM on November 26, 2015 [24 favorites]
Also, when men are standing to pee, the seat and ground are much further away and more difficult to see...
It's true that he might not have seen it, especially if he's near-sighted, but that's all the more reason he needs to lift up the seat — because if he doesn't, he won't see that he's peeing on the seat.
This is a pretty straightforward request, so I don't see why it has turn into so much drama. You've written several long paragraphs about this, but you should be able to address it with him in one sentence.
posted by John Cohen at 12:53 PM on November 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's true that he might not have seen it, especially if he's near-sighted, but that's all the more reason he needs to lift up the seat — because if he doesn't, he won't see that he's peeing on the seat.
This is a pretty straightforward request, so I don't see why it has turn into so much drama. You've written several long paragraphs about this, but you should be able to address it with him in one sentence.
posted by John Cohen at 12:53 PM on November 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Men Can Pee And Aim.
However, there are techniques involved. To mention one that won't get us into too many details, the seat should be raised before any test ("tests," in turn, could include, for example, trying to aim even if one's tummy is in the way to see properly, or various contrasting ways of holding the spout and keeping it steady. It's really not so different from watering plants, come to think of it).
In spite of the variety of levels of proficiency between specimens of our kind (dudes) one thing that bears consideration even in the nicest of scenarios, is that some water tends to splatter out of the toilet, when you spout something into it. Some water, or more of it.
Consequently, there will be splatters of stuff on the ground in any case.
Aaand... because it seems like you are the person to keep the bathroom clean, you have the right to dictate the rules. This may just help you to navigate round the obvious problem of staying clear of his depression issue.
1) Tell your partner to sit down already, for general reasons as stated above. No "ifs" or "buts" from him, no "I have noticed's" from your side.
2) If, in spite of this, your bathroom floor and toilet seat is targeted again, fill a bucket of soap water, put in a rag, find some large rubber gloves, and give him some work.
There is really no other way. Unless his depression is so huge that it all doesn't matter. If that's the case, this question has never been about pee on the floor.
posted by Namlit at 1:12 PM on November 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
However, there are techniques involved. To mention one that won't get us into too many details, the seat should be raised before any test ("tests," in turn, could include, for example, trying to aim even if one's tummy is in the way to see properly, or various contrasting ways of holding the spout and keeping it steady. It's really not so different from watering plants, come to think of it).
In spite of the variety of levels of proficiency between specimens of our kind (dudes) one thing that bears consideration even in the nicest of scenarios, is that some water tends to splatter out of the toilet, when you spout something into it. Some water, or more of it.
Consequently, there will be splatters of stuff on the ground in any case.
Aaand... because it seems like you are the person to keep the bathroom clean, you have the right to dictate the rules. This may just help you to navigate round the obvious problem of staying clear of his depression issue.
1) Tell your partner to sit down already, for general reasons as stated above. No "ifs" or "buts" from him, no "I have noticed's" from your side.
2) If, in spite of this, your bathroom floor and toilet seat is targeted again, fill a bucket of soap water, put in a rag, find some large rubber gloves, and give him some work.
There is really no other way. Unless his depression is so huge that it all doesn't matter. If that's the case, this question has never been about pee on the floor.
posted by Namlit at 1:12 PM on November 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is a guy thing. I had a friend with three boys and husband who complained that their bathroom(the guys had one she had her own) always smelled like a gas station toilet. After a while it even took a toll on her flooring. As said above, depression is not a get out of grown-up responsibilities excuse. Get some Clorox, Lysol or whatever bathroom cleaning brand of wipe you like and tell him to get to it. Its just plain old common courtesy to keep the bathroom clean. As my mother once said, it doesn't matter how clean the rest of the house is, when people come to visit, they always use the bathroom, so keep it clean.
posted by PJMoore at 4:44 PM on November 26, 2015
posted by PJMoore at 4:44 PM on November 26, 2015
Related information that may help:
If a man ejaculates and then falls asleep (or has a wet dream), semen can remain in the urethra and dry out a little. This results in pee spraying every which way when they wake up and pee for the first time.
I would tell him to pee immediately after ejaculating so as to clear the pipes.
Also tell him straightforwardly to please clean up when necessary, with no judgment in your voice.
Best of luck!!
posted by wwartorff at 6:52 PM on November 26, 2015
If a man ejaculates and then falls asleep (or has a wet dream), semen can remain in the urethra and dry out a little. This results in pee spraying every which way when they wake up and pee for the first time.
I would tell him to pee immediately after ejaculating so as to clear the pipes.
Also tell him straightforwardly to please clean up when necessary, with no judgment in your voice.
Best of luck!!
posted by wwartorff at 6:52 PM on November 26, 2015
I feel like the OP took great care to make this question gender neutral, so I don't think all these comments on male anatomy are appropriate, even if it seems a fair deduction that the partner is male or has typically male anatomy.
That said, I think the untreated depression and the bathroom incident are two separate though somewhat related issues- for the depression, it seems like a much larger issue that affecting your relationship and that your partner must treat for the two of you to move forward.
As for the urine, whatever is causing it, even if it's the depression or some other issue, they should be cleaning after themselves. I understand your feeling insulted as the primary cleaner. And as I feel that this issue is layered on the issue of untreated depression, I don't think you're overreacting, just understandably at the end of your rope.
posted by sweetkid at 7:36 PM on November 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
That said, I think the untreated depression and the bathroom incident are two separate though somewhat related issues- for the depression, it seems like a much larger issue that affecting your relationship and that your partner must treat for the two of you to move forward.
As for the urine, whatever is causing it, even if it's the depression or some other issue, they should be cleaning after themselves. I understand your feeling insulted as the primary cleaner. And as I feel that this issue is layered on the issue of untreated depression, I don't think you're overreacting, just understandably at the end of your rope.
posted by sweetkid at 7:36 PM on November 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Your problem isn't the toilet etiquette, it's this.
If your partner had a broken leg that cause him severe limitations, but didn't seek medical help for it, that would clearly not be acceptable - it's the same with mental health.
My recommendation would be to wait until your shock from this incident has died down somewhat, and then put it to the back of your mind. Sit down with him and explain that you feel you can't talk about basic, day-to-day living stuff because of his depression, and you're finding it hard to balance looking after him and supporting him, with the good communication that is at the core of a solid relationship.
Ask him to seek advice and, if needed, treatment as soon as possible - it will improve both of your lives and, by the sound of it, your marriage and standard of living.
posted by greenish at 12:56 AM on November 26, 2015 [49 favorites]