Is my friend narcissistic?
November 12, 2015 10:49 PM Subscribe
Hello. I have been friends with "James" for a little over a year. He is in his second year studying chemistry. I'm ambivalent about his social behaviour, if he possesses narcissistic characteristics or perhaps a case of social anxiety and nervousness in general.
Everytime we meet for a social gathering, all he does is dominate most of the conversations, while rarely asking about my opinion or showing an interest in my hobbies and personal thoughts. He will constantly talk in rambles, fast paced, non-stop, for minutes and minutes, sometimes it's excruciating to listen. I'm at the point where I'm not enjoying his company anymore. All he talks about is his own interests in Chemistry and poetry. Is this simply a sign of nervousness? He's extremely intelligent and wants to become a professor of Chemistry one day. I have been failing my chemistry course, and he's been helping me with all his might so I can succeed and pass the course - this is a pretty unselfish trait, I know. But all he does is talk about Chemistry and the conversations seem one-sided to me. He rarely asks me what I'm learning in Biology and about my interests. I'm constantly showing curiosity towards his studies, his homeland (in the Middle East). I feel like I must interrupt in order to have my say. His listening skills don't seem very good. He always pays me grandiose complients daily, hoping I will succeed with my chemistry course and with my academic studies in general. I feel that he is seeking compliments, too. I'm socially confused about this friend of mine. I almost feel that he wants to impress everyone with his intelligence. He's a very kind human, but I'm not sure if he is self-absorbed? He doesn't have many friends and is a middle child, and his parents live in another country, and he has not seen them for two years. Any advice would be much appreciated. All in all, he's a kind bloke, high spirited, very bright, filled with empathy, and cares about my Chemistry course in hope of passing it. Note: I do have difficulty reading social cues from others ad well.
Everytime we meet for a social gathering, all he does is dominate most of the conversations, while rarely asking about my opinion or showing an interest in my hobbies and personal thoughts. He will constantly talk in rambles, fast paced, non-stop, for minutes and minutes, sometimes it's excruciating to listen. I'm at the point where I'm not enjoying his company anymore. All he talks about is his own interests in Chemistry and poetry. Is this simply a sign of nervousness? He's extremely intelligent and wants to become a professor of Chemistry one day. I have been failing my chemistry course, and he's been helping me with all his might so I can succeed and pass the course - this is a pretty unselfish trait, I know. But all he does is talk about Chemistry and the conversations seem one-sided to me. He rarely asks me what I'm learning in Biology and about my interests. I'm constantly showing curiosity towards his studies, his homeland (in the Middle East). I feel like I must interrupt in order to have my say. His listening skills don't seem very good. He always pays me grandiose complients daily, hoping I will succeed with my chemistry course and with my academic studies in general. I feel that he is seeking compliments, too. I'm socially confused about this friend of mine. I almost feel that he wants to impress everyone with his intelligence. He's a very kind human, but I'm not sure if he is self-absorbed? He doesn't have many friends and is a middle child, and his parents live in another country, and he has not seen them for two years. Any advice would be much appreciated. All in all, he's a kind bloke, high spirited, very bright, filled with empathy, and cares about my Chemistry course in hope of passing it. Note: I do have difficulty reading social cues from others ad well.
I think "narcissistic" is a term that described a complex and malevolent pattern of behaviours, where the narcissist derives pleasure from making others adore them and then treating them badly. Constantly talking about oneself can be a part of it, but I think a true narcissist would be aware of how this would alienate people and therefore make an effort to let them talk about themselves (whilst not giving a stuff about what they say). It sounds like your friend is a bit self absorbed and insecure and is trying to win people over but is lacking in social skills and making things worse.
posted by intensitymultiply at 12:51 AM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by intensitymultiply at 12:51 AM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
If he's not expressing contempt for people then I'd agree it doesn't sound like personality disorder, and more something like being badly socialized.
There could be a gender aspect to this, if he listens more when men are talking. Or it could be the only people who tolerated his company in the past were people who would take turns talking over him. And he's probably a bit lonely, with family far away and tending to grate a bit.
Note that the situation may not be fixable.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
If you enjoy his company when he's not talking all the time, maybe work to a friendship that's partially built on shared activities instead of seeking one based on shared conversation.
Stuff like video gaming, board gaming cafes, arcades, skating, author readings, movies, etc.
Maybe. Because you can't be expected to put yourself in a box and be spoken over (as women often are), but if you can base part of your friendship on non-chemistry non-him activities, you might consider it a worthwhile friendship.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:08 AM on November 13, 2015
There could be a gender aspect to this, if he listens more when men are talking. Or it could be the only people who tolerated his company in the past were people who would take turns talking over him. And he's probably a bit lonely, with family far away and tending to grate a bit.
Note that the situation may not be fixable.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
If you enjoy his company when he's not talking all the time, maybe work to a friendship that's partially built on shared activities instead of seeking one based on shared conversation.
Stuff like video gaming, board gaming cafes, arcades, skating, author readings, movies, etc.
Maybe. Because you can't be expected to put yourself in a box and be spoken over (as women often are), but if you can base part of your friendship on non-chemistry non-him activities, you might consider it a worthwhile friendship.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:08 AM on November 13, 2015
Honestly, consider whether this might be his way of wooing you, rather than selflessness.
Badly socialised + doing what he can to lecture you into success + grandiose compliments that he seems to want returned sounds like he's got his hopes up, to me.
What I'm saying is, don't feel too bad about not liking a friendly but annoying guy who is helping you "selflessly". Don't stay in a friendship you do not enjoy (but be prepared to find another tutor if you dial down your friendship.)
posted by Omnomnom at 2:01 AM on November 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
Badly socialised + doing what he can to lecture you into success + grandiose compliments that he seems to want returned sounds like he's got his hopes up, to me.
What I'm saying is, don't feel too bad about not liking a friendly but annoying guy who is helping you "selflessly". Don't stay in a friendship you do not enjoy (but be prepared to find another tutor if you dial down your friendship.)
posted by Omnomnom at 2:01 AM on November 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
you note that he's from a different culture to you. that could be part (but i doubt all) of it. people from some cultures expect to be interrupted and / or fill gaps with talking (although i know absolutely nothing about middle eastern cultures specifically). you could try interrupting more (this is actually quite hard if you're not used to it - don't be put off by feeling like you're being rude / if it doesn't feel like you're being rude you're really not trying!).
(also, i tend to avoid using medical / psychological terms like narcissist outside of medical contexts because they tend to have quite specific meanings, which i don't know, and it sometimes feels a bit like using an external authority to criticise others - "you're officially weird")
posted by andrewcooke at 3:48 AM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
(also, i tend to avoid using medical / psychological terms like narcissist outside of medical contexts because they tend to have quite specific meanings, which i don't know, and it sometimes feels a bit like using an external authority to criticise others - "you're officially weird")
posted by andrewcooke at 3:48 AM on November 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Hi, I'm pretty self absorbed and can tend to monopolize conversations from time to time. I think in most cases it happens when I'm bored because the people around me aren't being interesting. Well, I can always entertain myself!
Things folks on the other end of this can do: 1) take some initiative and start talking about your own thing so I have a reason to shut up, 2) stop being friends with me. Both are pretty good solutions. Like, it's sad, I'll miss you, but I don't need to have friends who don't like me.
Another thought: some people are socialized to ask questions about other people in order to have conversations. If this is your conversational style, well, you walked right into that one. Personally, the "what do you do?" "what do you do?"/" how was your day?" "how was your day?" back and forth makes me regret even putting pants on and leaving the house, so if I see that starting to happen I take the first opportunity to start talking about anything else. Usually me me me me me.
posted by phunniemee at 3:56 AM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Things folks on the other end of this can do: 1) take some initiative and start talking about your own thing so I have a reason to shut up, 2) stop being friends with me. Both are pretty good solutions. Like, it's sad, I'll miss you, but I don't need to have friends who don't like me.
Another thought: some people are socialized to ask questions about other people in order to have conversations. If this is your conversational style, well, you walked right into that one. Personally, the "what do you do?" "what do you do?"/" how was your day?" "how was your day?" back and forth makes me regret even putting pants on and leaving the house, so if I see that starting to happen I take the first opportunity to start talking about anything else. Usually me me me me me.
posted by phunniemee at 3:56 AM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I grew up with a parent who I think probably actually does have some form of narcissism (though this is entirely my personal, non-medical opinion.) They would talk nonstop like you describe, constantly interrupt me, and otherwise convey non-verbal clues that my opinions and thoughts were unimportant next to their own.
I had all sorts of social problems interacting with people my own age, so for much of my life a large proportion of all the socializing I'd ever done had been with this parent. Many of my behaviors in interacting with other people were modeled on this parent and it's taken much of my life to recognize this and prevent myself from treating other people in the same ways that made me feel so disrespected and bad.
This person would also pretty brazenly never allow me to be right about anything and would simply make up contradicting facts out of thin air as a way to dismiss things I said, then become angry and hostile if I called them on their bullshit. So I became pretty obsessed with proving the validity of my own points and getting ahead of any possible objection: obsessed to a degree that serves no purpose in most situations and which can easily be hurtful to others.
tl;dr what I'm saying is that your friend might be imitating the way his family or other acquaintances treated him, rather than it all being driven by his own psychology necessarily. (But even if that were the case it wouldn't mean that you have to put up with him being rude or insufferably self-focused. It's not your job to fix his behavioral problems and you don't have to be friends with him, regardless.)
posted by Sockpuppet Liberation Front at 4:05 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I had all sorts of social problems interacting with people my own age, so for much of my life a large proportion of all the socializing I'd ever done had been with this parent. Many of my behaviors in interacting with other people were modeled on this parent and it's taken much of my life to recognize this and prevent myself from treating other people in the same ways that made me feel so disrespected and bad.
This person would also pretty brazenly never allow me to be right about anything and would simply make up contradicting facts out of thin air as a way to dismiss things I said, then become angry and hostile if I called them on their bullshit. So I became pretty obsessed with proving the validity of my own points and getting ahead of any possible objection: obsessed to a degree that serves no purpose in most situations and which can easily be hurtful to others.
tl;dr what I'm saying is that your friend might be imitating the way his family or other acquaintances treated him, rather than it all being driven by his own psychology necessarily. (But even if that were the case it wouldn't mean that you have to put up with him being rude or insufferably self-focused. It's not your job to fix his behavioral problems and you don't have to be friends with him, regardless.)
posted by Sockpuppet Liberation Front at 4:05 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Terms like "narcissistic" are used (and not without controversy) for diagnostic purposes in the field(s) of mental health. A person to be diagnosed is not described by a third party but has to be examined by the diagnosing professional, thus when you ask if someone is narcissistic, it's not clear what you want to know. Maybe if you can characterize his behavior as the symptoms of a disorder, you don't have to judge him.
That said, I'd attribute his behavior more to cultural, anxiety related, and perhaps ADD-ish factors.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:25 AM on November 13, 2015
That said, I'd attribute his behavior more to cultural, anxiety related, and perhaps ADD-ish factors.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:25 AM on November 13, 2015
Seconding that this may be a cultural issue. I grew up with family and extended family that all talk until they are interrupted, because they are expecting and hoping that you will interrupt with your things. It works quite well if everyone is on board. I tend to do this myself sometimes when I'm not thinking about it. If it helps, when I do, I'm often frustrated myself, like "Jesus Christ, how long do I need to carry this fucking conversation before someone says something? I only have like three things I can safely talk about here and I am running out of them!" He may be wanting you and others to interrupt him with the things you are interested in so the conversation flows better.
posted by corb at 4:28 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 4:28 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
It sound sounds to me like your friend could be helping/praising you to instil a sense of obligation strong enough to anchor you in the dynamic. Both of you may wind up feeling that it's your "duty" to listen to these barrages. He may recognise in you the sort of person who can be guilted into being an audience. Anyway, you sound a bit trapped. I'd say that you need to pull back a bit, look for more formal study help and see how your friend handles that. Chances are, he'll see it as a betrayal and cut you out entirely. This would not be a bad thing because these sorts of relationships can be stunting.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:31 AM on November 13, 2015
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:31 AM on November 13, 2015
'I'm at the point where I'm not enjoying his company anymore.'
The question of whether your friend could be diagnosed as a narcissist is a red herring, and I'm a bit puzzled about why you feel the need to pathologise or label his behaviour. Homework help aside, he sounds like a bore, and life is too short to spend with bores.
If you feel like you need permission to cut this friendship loose, then this Internet stranger gives you permission.
posted by nerdfish at 7:35 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
The question of whether your friend could be diagnosed as a narcissist is a red herring, and I'm a bit puzzled about why you feel the need to pathologise or label his behaviour. Homework help aside, he sounds like a bore, and life is too short to spend with bores.
If you feel like you need permission to cut this friendship loose, then this Internet stranger gives you permission.
posted by nerdfish at 7:35 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Describing someone as narcissistic and "filled with empathy" is a contradiction. Some people with narcissistic tendencies cannot empathize at all. Others may have the ability, but choose not to do so.
posted by TheCavorter at 7:38 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by TheCavorter at 7:38 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Sounds more like on the social awkwardness/social anxiety/maybe autism spectrum side than narcissism. But I agree with nerdfish - it is beside the point. You're allowed to choose who you want to spend your time with, and you do not have to justify it. Women are often socialized to believe we're supposed to like everyone and accommodate their needs, but there's actually nothing wrong with just deciding, hey, I'm not enjoying spending time with this person and so I'm going to do something I enjoy more instead.
However, if you do want to stay friends, as a person who is somewhat like him I would respond very well to something like "hey, that's really interesting, but could we talk about something else for a bit? I'm really excited about [thing you're interested in] and really want to share it with someone."
posted by capricorn at 7:56 AM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
However, if you do want to stay friends, as a person who is somewhat like him I would respond very well to something like "hey, that's really interesting, but could we talk about something else for a bit? I'm really excited about [thing you're interested in] and really want to share it with someone."
posted by capricorn at 7:56 AM on November 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Something may be up, but probably not like a narcissistic personality disorder unless the conditions described by enfp apply. People with any number of mental health or developmental issues (depression, anxiety, ADHD) often do some across as self-absorbed (because they are, they're absorbed in their thoughts and emotions, and don't always have the bandwidth to respond to others appropriately).
I almost feel that he wants to impress everyone with his intelligence.
That may be the case, if he highly values intelligence, hasn't had the opportunity or ability to develop himself in other domains, and is lonely, needy, and wanting validation. (Or yeah, a date :/)
empathy
Well, it sounds like he's motivated to be helpful (maybe because he wants to be someone's mentor? Or wants to date you :/?) or may have good intentions, but although I think empathy does involve a bit of imaginative reaching from your own experience, it is really about trying to listen to people.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:05 AM on November 13, 2015
I almost feel that he wants to impress everyone with his intelligence.
That may be the case, if he highly values intelligence, hasn't had the opportunity or ability to develop himself in other domains, and is lonely, needy, and wanting validation. (Or yeah, a date :/)
empathy
Well, it sounds like he's motivated to be helpful (maybe because he wants to be someone's mentor? Or wants to date you :/?) or may have good intentions, but although I think empathy does involve a bit of imaginative reaching from your own experience, it is really about trying to listen to people.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:05 AM on November 13, 2015
He might have Asperger's. A lot of their tendencies to redirect and obsess onto their own interests come across as narcissistic and self-absorbed but it's really not. He probably really wants to interact with you but doesn't have the wiring to do so other than to share his interests or talk about what he is proud of (his achievements).
The duality of poetry and chemistry also makes me wonder if he is not on the spectrum.
posted by Young Kullervo at 9:26 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
The duality of poetry and chemistry also makes me wonder if he is not on the spectrum.
posted by Young Kullervo at 9:26 AM on November 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm at the point where I'm not enjoying his company anymore.
This is the central point.
I met an awesome girl when I was a junior in high school. She lived in a different city, but we met at an academic summer camp in my home state. We clicked immediately and spent that entire summer together. Despite the distance between us, we became really close friends. I'd find rides up to her part of town and vice versa, several times each year. She even went to prom with me (which felt very punk rock--I was a shy, closeted, angry gay kid with a bizarre affect and look, and she was a classic black make-up and piercings goth punk).
It took years of these occasional meet-ups to realize that her railroading manner--like your friend--wasn't just an expression of excitement over rare opportunities to meet up. What I thought for so long was just a bunch of pent up info coming out at high pressure was reveled to be just her way of being. No questions, only running (usually self-referencing) commentary. She came to visit me when I was in grad school during a very tough time, and I felt my resolve to keep interjecting myself into her narrative turning tiresome. I just stopped talking altogether, and felt like she didn't even notice.
After she went home, I just sort of stopped initiating contact. It was weird, but necessary.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:24 AM on November 13, 2015
This is the central point.
I met an awesome girl when I was a junior in high school. She lived in a different city, but we met at an academic summer camp in my home state. We clicked immediately and spent that entire summer together. Despite the distance between us, we became really close friends. I'd find rides up to her part of town and vice versa, several times each year. She even went to prom with me (which felt very punk rock--I was a shy, closeted, angry gay kid with a bizarre affect and look, and she was a classic black make-up and piercings goth punk).
It took years of these occasional meet-ups to realize that her railroading manner--like your friend--wasn't just an expression of excitement over rare opportunities to meet up. What I thought for so long was just a bunch of pent up info coming out at high pressure was reveled to be just her way of being. No questions, only running (usually self-referencing) commentary. She came to visit me when I was in grad school during a very tough time, and I felt my resolve to keep interjecting myself into her narrative turning tiresome. I just stopped talking altogether, and felt like she didn't even notice.
After she went home, I just sort of stopped initiating contact. It was weird, but necessary.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:24 AM on November 13, 2015
He rarely asks me what I'm learning in Biology and about my interests. I'm constantly showing curiosity towards his studies
Have you tried just talking about you interests?
And have you tried not specifically showing curiosity towards his interests?
Not everyone is tuned in to this taking turns of asking curious questions in conversation, he might genuinely feel that you want to talk about these things you've been constantly showing curiosity about. It sounds like you are doing that because you've been taught that it's "polite", but not everyone follows the same customs, stop with the false curiosity. He might even be wondering if you are ever going to bring up your interests.
posted by yohko at 2:10 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Have you tried just talking about you interests?
And have you tried not specifically showing curiosity towards his interests?
Not everyone is tuned in to this taking turns of asking curious questions in conversation, he might genuinely feel that you want to talk about these things you've been constantly showing curiosity about. It sounds like you are doing that because you've been taught that it's "polite", but not everyone follows the same customs, stop with the false curiosity. He might even be wondering if you are ever going to bring up your interests.
posted by yohko at 2:10 PM on November 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If on the other hand 1. your friend's monologues involve a lot of scheming, maneuvering, or self-aggrandizement, as opposed to just talking about things they find interesting and/or want to do; 2. they seem unusually competitive in social situations, especially over things that seem kind of petty; and/or 3. they seem to put people down a lot compared to your other friends, whether straight-up or phrased as a joke; then I'd start to suspect something less benign. But it doesn't sound like that's the case based just on what you're describing.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:48 PM on November 12, 2015 [6 favorites]