How to handle this meeting?
November 7, 2015 6:31 PM Subscribe
I have received a verbal offer of employment over the phone. I did not verbally accept it, but I have a meeting on Monday where I suspect that they expect me to view the offer on paper for the first time and then immediately sign it. I still have questions about the position. How do I best handle this?
Here's a basic walkthrough of the process so far. This is for a community/fitness center in my town.
I had an interview with one of the two hiring managers (the senior one; we got along fantastically). I asked about what they most needed help with, and in my follow up letter gave an idea I'd had, which was received positively. I then got a call to do a "working interview" where they asked me to come in for about 30 minutes and just greet people behind the desk. The first hiring manager gave me the impression that I would be welcome to work on actual projects/events at the organization, while the second (with whom I did the "working interview") answered my questions about projects/events in a way that made me feel like she was trying to keep me out of that side of things, and I felt like she was much cooler toward me in general (actually, at times I felt like I was being treated like a kid).
I also have questions about pay. In the first interview I was told they were hiring for two positions, and I explicitly said I was interested in the more senior position (thus, projects/events), which I was told was great, and Hiring Manager #1 took a note to that effect. But the offer over the phone came from Hiring Manager #2, who I am concerned might be trying to hire me for the junior position, which is typically for students/retirees who need some extra cash without much actual job responsibility. I also did not have a chance to ask about advancement/benefits/etcetera, although Hiring Manager #1 told me that the pay was $X/hour "just to start off."
I really don't want to walk in, get the W-9 form handed to me, and be expected to sign it then and there. I expected an actual offer letter or other communication, where there was space to discuss this stuff. I would like to talk to both hiring managers at once if at all possible while I'm discussing this, so that communication is clear.
Now, maybe I will walk in and go into the office with the two hiring managers - but maybe I won't. I would like to figure out a strategy for handling this unknown situation. What do I do if I just get shown a table with a bunch of hiring paperwork? Is it assumed that if I don't sign then and there, I've refused the position? What if the place is busy and the hiring manager(s) either aren't there (in the case of #1, who does not work at the front desk 99% of the time and sometimes has odd hours) or are busy and not prepared to answer questions (in the case of #2)?
Oh, and to address a likely question: This is a single branch of a massive not-for-profit organization. I'm sure they have an HR department on the large scale, but I don't believe they have anything to do with hires beyond background checks. So there's no one "from HR" I can talk to tomorrow or Monday about this that I'm aware of.
Thanks for any and all advice.
Here's a basic walkthrough of the process so far. This is for a community/fitness center in my town.
I had an interview with one of the two hiring managers (the senior one; we got along fantastically). I asked about what they most needed help with, and in my follow up letter gave an idea I'd had, which was received positively. I then got a call to do a "working interview" where they asked me to come in for about 30 minutes and just greet people behind the desk. The first hiring manager gave me the impression that I would be welcome to work on actual projects/events at the organization, while the second (with whom I did the "working interview") answered my questions about projects/events in a way that made me feel like she was trying to keep me out of that side of things, and I felt like she was much cooler toward me in general (actually, at times I felt like I was being treated like a kid).
I also have questions about pay. In the first interview I was told they were hiring for two positions, and I explicitly said I was interested in the more senior position (thus, projects/events), which I was told was great, and Hiring Manager #1 took a note to that effect. But the offer over the phone came from Hiring Manager #2, who I am concerned might be trying to hire me for the junior position, which is typically for students/retirees who need some extra cash without much actual job responsibility. I also did not have a chance to ask about advancement/benefits/etcetera, although Hiring Manager #1 told me that the pay was $X/hour "just to start off."
I really don't want to walk in, get the W-9 form handed to me, and be expected to sign it then and there. I expected an actual offer letter or other communication, where there was space to discuss this stuff. I would like to talk to both hiring managers at once if at all possible while I'm discussing this, so that communication is clear.
Now, maybe I will walk in and go into the office with the two hiring managers - but maybe I won't. I would like to figure out a strategy for handling this unknown situation. What do I do if I just get shown a table with a bunch of hiring paperwork? Is it assumed that if I don't sign then and there, I've refused the position? What if the place is busy and the hiring manager(s) either aren't there (in the case of #1, who does not work at the front desk 99% of the time and sometimes has odd hours) or are busy and not prepared to answer questions (in the case of #2)?
Oh, and to address a likely question: This is a single branch of a massive not-for-profit organization. I'm sure they have an HR department on the large scale, but I don't believe they have anything to do with hires beyond background checks. So there's no one "from HR" I can talk to tomorrow or Monday about this that I'm aware of.
Thanks for any and all advice.
It is perfectly reasonable to want to know what you are being hired to do and what the pay will be before you sign on to the job.
Go in, introduce yourself. If someone other than the hiring manager hands you the paperwork, take it, and say "Thank you. I do have some questions first. Is HiringManager1 available?". If you are lucky, the person will go get #1 for you. If not, ask for #2. If that isn't possible either, say "I'm really interested in this job. How do we set up a time a for me to meet with #1 to get my questions answered?" This is perfectly reasonable and it probably not in this person job description to tell you that you AREN'T being hired because you have questions. If they do say "Does that mean you aren't interested?" just reply "I'm very interested. I just need some questions answered first."
Polite and firm.
If you get Manager#2, just let her know that you have some questions you want clarified. Knowing the title, the pay, the scope of responsibilities and who you report to are all very important terms of the job offer. If it isn't what you wanted, tell her that that was not your understanding when you talked to Manager#1. If the job being offered reports to Manger#2 and it isn't what you want - say so. "I'm very excited about working for XYZ but what I am most interested in is _____" If she says "Take it or leave it" I would leave it and then follow up with phone call to Manager#1 saying that it didn't work out since #2 just wanted you for [lower grade job] but you are still very interested in working with them as a [hired grade person] and you hope she will keep you in ming.
posted by metahawk at 6:50 PM on November 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Go in, introduce yourself. If someone other than the hiring manager hands you the paperwork, take it, and say "Thank you. I do have some questions first. Is HiringManager1 available?". If you are lucky, the person will go get #1 for you. If not, ask for #2. If that isn't possible either, say "I'm really interested in this job. How do we set up a time a for me to meet with #1 to get my questions answered?" This is perfectly reasonable and it probably not in this person job description to tell you that you AREN'T being hired because you have questions. If they do say "Does that mean you aren't interested?" just reply "I'm very interested. I just need some questions answered first."
Polite and firm.
If you get Manager#2, just let her know that you have some questions you want clarified. Knowing the title, the pay, the scope of responsibilities and who you report to are all very important terms of the job offer. If it isn't what you wanted, tell her that that was not your understanding when you talked to Manager#1. If the job being offered reports to Manger#2 and it isn't what you want - say so. "I'm very excited about working for XYZ but what I am most interested in is _____" If she says "Take it or leave it" I would leave it and then follow up with phone call to Manager#1 saying that it didn't work out since #2 just wanted you for [lower grade job] but you are still very interested in working with them as a [hired grade person] and you hope she will keep you in ming.
posted by metahawk at 6:50 PM on November 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: In case future readers are interested or any answerers (thanks!) check back, here's what happened today:
I walked in , was greeted by HM#2, and shown to a table that had all the hiring paperwork on it. She then picked up all but the first page, read the title of the first page (the background check) to me, and said she would come back in a minute when I'd had time to sign it. Before I could say anything, she walked away.
I thought about waiting, but decided to get up and go talk to her - she wasn't far; just a couple dozen steps away at the front desk. I approached and said that I still had a few questions about the position, and after she gave me a perplexed look and saying that the employee handbook was part of the hiring paperwork, I clarified that I wanted to confirm my title, responsibilities, and the reporting structure. At this point, I'm getting a look that wouldn't have been out of place if I'd said something offensive. Warning bells are going off all over the place in my head.
So she says the responsibility is "just to be here behind the desk" and why would I need to know the reporting structure of the place? So I said, "I think there might have been a miscommunication along the way somewhere. [HM#1] told me about two positions open, [this one] and [the senior one]. I expressed interest in [the senior one], and I'm getting the impression that's not the position you offered me." At this point we're both getting stares from a couple of the front desk people, and she ushers me over into a corner to talk.
She then says that the only position anything like the one I described is [other position with a different but similar title], and that they never even had an opening for the position I described in the first place. At this point I'm perplexed, and I say that I'd like to know the exact details of the position she offered me, in writing. The best I can get from her is a brief title, pay (which is 20% lower than HM#1 had mentioned), and a scribbling of a couple of hours they needed filled, written on a piece of scrap paper.
So I say that I need some time to think it over, because this is not the position I thought I was being hired for, and I leave. When I get home, I send an email to HM#1 saying that I believe there has been a misunderstanding somewhere along the way, X is the position I thought I was interviewing/being hired for, and Y is what was described to me that day, and could I please get some clarification?
I get an email about an hour later saying that, while the hours I was given are not accurate (there would apparently be 35+ hours, but without consistent scheduling or guaranteed time because the position is designed to cover everyone else's time off), the position HM#2 laid out for me is basically correct.
So, that's the position I'm in now. I'm going to call them tomorrow, ask for HM#1, and turn down the job offer.
posted by Urban Winter at 3:42 PM on November 9, 2015
I walked in , was greeted by HM#2, and shown to a table that had all the hiring paperwork on it. She then picked up all but the first page, read the title of the first page (the background check) to me, and said she would come back in a minute when I'd had time to sign it. Before I could say anything, she walked away.
I thought about waiting, but decided to get up and go talk to her - she wasn't far; just a couple dozen steps away at the front desk. I approached and said that I still had a few questions about the position, and after she gave me a perplexed look and saying that the employee handbook was part of the hiring paperwork, I clarified that I wanted to confirm my title, responsibilities, and the reporting structure. At this point, I'm getting a look that wouldn't have been out of place if I'd said something offensive. Warning bells are going off all over the place in my head.
So she says the responsibility is "just to be here behind the desk" and why would I need to know the reporting structure of the place? So I said, "I think there might have been a miscommunication along the way somewhere. [HM#1] told me about two positions open, [this one] and [the senior one]. I expressed interest in [the senior one], and I'm getting the impression that's not the position you offered me." At this point we're both getting stares from a couple of the front desk people, and she ushers me over into a corner to talk.
She then says that the only position anything like the one I described is [other position with a different but similar title], and that they never even had an opening for the position I described in the first place. At this point I'm perplexed, and I say that I'd like to know the exact details of the position she offered me, in writing. The best I can get from her is a brief title, pay (which is 20% lower than HM#1 had mentioned), and a scribbling of a couple of hours they needed filled, written on a piece of scrap paper.
So I say that I need some time to think it over, because this is not the position I thought I was being hired for, and I leave. When I get home, I send an email to HM#1 saying that I believe there has been a misunderstanding somewhere along the way, X is the position I thought I was interviewing/being hired for, and Y is what was described to me that day, and could I please get some clarification?
I get an email about an hour later saying that, while the hours I was given are not accurate (there would apparently be 35+ hours, but without consistent scheduling or guaranteed time because the position is designed to cover everyone else's time off), the position HM#2 laid out for me is basically correct.
So, that's the position I'm in now. I'm going to call them tomorrow, ask for HM#1, and turn down the job offer.
posted by Urban Winter at 3:42 PM on November 9, 2015
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Odds are you're overthinking it; if not, they might have just misunderstood how far into your part of the hiring process they are (there's also a pretty good chance that HM#1 thought HM#2 covered everything with you, and vice versa). So give them a chance to make it right.
But if they (or someone else) starts hand-waving away the very legitimate concerns you've raised here, be prepared to walk away. There's a small chance that this place is toxic, and they're going to push you to make a decision without all the information and then interpret any gaps in that information in their own favor, and you'll just have to deal with that. You don't want to deal with that.
posted by Etrigan at 6:44 PM on November 7, 2015 [5 favorites]