help me help my troubled pup
October 26, 2015 11:09 AM Subscribe
I recently rescued a 5 year old maltese-yorkie dog (here he is!) with some behavioral issues. I'm already working with a vet, but I'd like to hear other experiences. He's lived with me for about one month.
Eating himself. He has severe itching behavior, chewing on his own toes and various hot spots on his skin, and scratching himself with his claws. It may be allergies, anxiety, or some combination. His previous owners had him on a grain and poultry free diet of raw venison, and my vet switched him to hypoallergenic dry food - he's not allowed anything else but veggies (he loves raw carrots and boiled potato). Vet says that if food allergies are the issue, it'll take a few months to see improvement from the new diet. We tried a course of steroids, which helped a lot, but the itching behaviors returned, somewhat milder, as soon as the meds tapered off - steroids can't be continued in the long term. The health of his skin and toes has improved a lot since he's been taking steroids and wearing the cone, but he still nibbles and scratches and reinjures the spots now and then.
He wears a soft fabric cone most of the time to stop him from chewing himself, and it seems to curb the urges a bit too, though he still finds ways to reach his toes or scratch his hot spots with his back toes. The itching stops completely when he has a fun distraction like going for a walk, but as we approach my front door at the end of the walk he starts scratching again. He can sleep through the night without much scratching or chewing, even if the cone is off overnight.
He's been wearing a comforting pheromone collar for a few weeks but it doesn't make any obvious difference.
Eating me. He's been aggressive towards me, but nobody else; and only at home. Several times a day, always while sitting in a comfy spot (my bed, his bed, or the sofa) he'll get into an odd state where if I make any sudden moves or reach even slightly towards any objects near him (it's ok to reach towards his head!) he will growl and leap at me, and sometimes bite - though he seems to be moderating his bites and hasn't broken the skin. His previous owners said that he would defend his food or toys, but it didn't seem to be nearly as bad as this. My friends who have spent time with him and haven't been attacked are all women, as were his previous owners, so maybe he's scared of men. I'm learning how to avoid behaviors that trigger him, but of course it'd be better if he wasn't so fearful. His mood can change quite quickly - we'll play with toys after a walk and he'll have a great time; if I step away for two minutes he might be in guard mode when I return. Immediately after attacking he'll want to cuddle with me in bed, where he'll snuggle up calmly all night.
The vet has suggested trying prozac for both this and the itching problem - we were going to give the hypoallergenic food a chance to work first.
In general he has a good appetite, is perfectly housebroken, loves walks (and eating spilled food from the sidewalk), gets along cautiously but well enough with other dogs. He was trained a bit by previous owners (knows sit, come, and stay, but won't always react if there's no immediate and obvious food reward), and I hope to improve his training. Eating street garbage probably doesn't help with the food allergy testing, but I manage to keep most of the gunk out of him.
Please share your ideas, experiences, and maybe good (and affordable?) dog behavior specialists in NYC.
Eating himself. He has severe itching behavior, chewing on his own toes and various hot spots on his skin, and scratching himself with his claws. It may be allergies, anxiety, or some combination. His previous owners had him on a grain and poultry free diet of raw venison, and my vet switched him to hypoallergenic dry food - he's not allowed anything else but veggies (he loves raw carrots and boiled potato). Vet says that if food allergies are the issue, it'll take a few months to see improvement from the new diet. We tried a course of steroids, which helped a lot, but the itching behaviors returned, somewhat milder, as soon as the meds tapered off - steroids can't be continued in the long term. The health of his skin and toes has improved a lot since he's been taking steroids and wearing the cone, but he still nibbles and scratches and reinjures the spots now and then.
He wears a soft fabric cone most of the time to stop him from chewing himself, and it seems to curb the urges a bit too, though he still finds ways to reach his toes or scratch his hot spots with his back toes. The itching stops completely when he has a fun distraction like going for a walk, but as we approach my front door at the end of the walk he starts scratching again. He can sleep through the night without much scratching or chewing, even if the cone is off overnight.
He's been wearing a comforting pheromone collar for a few weeks but it doesn't make any obvious difference.
Eating me. He's been aggressive towards me, but nobody else; and only at home. Several times a day, always while sitting in a comfy spot (my bed, his bed, or the sofa) he'll get into an odd state where if I make any sudden moves or reach even slightly towards any objects near him (it's ok to reach towards his head!) he will growl and leap at me, and sometimes bite - though he seems to be moderating his bites and hasn't broken the skin. His previous owners said that he would defend his food or toys, but it didn't seem to be nearly as bad as this. My friends who have spent time with him and haven't been attacked are all women, as were his previous owners, so maybe he's scared of men. I'm learning how to avoid behaviors that trigger him, but of course it'd be better if he wasn't so fearful. His mood can change quite quickly - we'll play with toys after a walk and he'll have a great time; if I step away for two minutes he might be in guard mode when I return. Immediately after attacking he'll want to cuddle with me in bed, where he'll snuggle up calmly all night.
The vet has suggested trying prozac for both this and the itching problem - we were going to give the hypoallergenic food a chance to work first.
In general he has a good appetite, is perfectly housebroken, loves walks (and eating spilled food from the sidewalk), gets along cautiously but well enough with other dogs. He was trained a bit by previous owners (knows sit, come, and stay, but won't always react if there's no immediate and obvious food reward), and I hope to improve his training. Eating street garbage probably doesn't help with the food allergy testing, but I manage to keep most of the gunk out of him.
Please share your ideas, experiences, and maybe good (and affordable?) dog behavior specialists in NYC.
Response by poster: He doesn't roam unsupervised, but Brooklyn sidewalks and the park's picnic fields are messy enough that sometimes during a leashed walk he can spot and grab a dropped bit of food faster than I can stop him. (He's much closer to the ground than I am, so he has a better view of the prospects.) He gets maybe a bite or two of illicit food every few days this way.
posted by moonmilk at 11:49 AM on October 26, 2015
posted by moonmilk at 11:49 AM on October 26, 2015
1. Allergies/itching for non-psychological reasons. My vet recommended I give my dog an egg every once in a while or a little olive oil, to help keep his skin moisturized. She also suggested half a benadryl, though I had a large dog. Definitely talk to your vet about the appropriate antihistamine does for a small dog, or whether that's appropriate at all. This is something your vet should have an easy answer for, as allergies and itchiness in dogs is common enough. FWIW it seems weird to me that your vet went for really invasive approaches like steroids, prozac, etc before the simple stuff. Unless you already tried this stuff and didn't mention it in your post.
He also might be habituated to itching, at this point, and you might have to train him out of it. If you can easily find a way to reward non-itching, definitely go for that. If this is harder to do, you might want to enlist a trainer to help you figure out what behaviors to reward in order to discourage itching.
2. Object aggression. DEFINITELY get a trainer for this. They can also advise you on how to work on "drop it" and "leave it" for the street garbage issue.
It also cannot be stated enough that aggression is NOT OK in dogs, even small dogs. I am currently working with a friend's chihuahua who has some aggression issues, and while, no, the dog isn't breaking the skin or causing any permanent damage, it's simply not appropriate and I'm super stoked that my friend is working with a trainer on this issue rather than waving it away as "well it's not a big deal..."
posted by Sara C. at 11:54 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
He also might be habituated to itching, at this point, and you might have to train him out of it. If you can easily find a way to reward non-itching, definitely go for that. If this is harder to do, you might want to enlist a trainer to help you figure out what behaviors to reward in order to discourage itching.
2. Object aggression. DEFINITELY get a trainer for this. They can also advise you on how to work on "drop it" and "leave it" for the street garbage issue.
It also cannot be stated enough that aggression is NOT OK in dogs, even small dogs. I am currently working with a friend's chihuahua who has some aggression issues, and while, no, the dog isn't breaking the skin or causing any permanent damage, it's simply not appropriate and I'm super stoked that my friend is working with a trainer on this issue rather than waving it away as "well it's not a big deal..."
posted by Sara C. at 11:54 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Letting your dog sleep on the bed with you when he's randomly aggressive seems like a bad idea.
Definitely speak to a trainer.
posted by dvrmmr at 12:05 PM on October 26, 2015
Definitely speak to a trainer.
posted by dvrmmr at 12:05 PM on October 26, 2015
Dogs can get snappy like that (with reaching at/near them) when they're in pain, but also if they're having vision problems. That might be something to circle back with the vet on.
It does seem weird if the vet hasn't tried all the common antihistamines yet. Benadryl is kind of the least effective one, in my experience and it seems like general online experience is the same, and the most effective ones seem to be older ones that are sometimes harder to find in the US anymore, but you need to discuss dosage with your doctor. We have to do one round of steroids plus antihistamines several times a day to keep one of my dogs relatively well for her bad allergy season every year.
Get a trainer to come do an assessment. Shouldn't take more than an hour for someone to check out the situation with fresh eyes and give you some starter suggestions. Meeting someone with difficult-dog-experience in your home is generally far more informational than the guesses of the vet who sees your dog only in "weird situation" mode.
Trainers are often much cheaper than you'd expect (ours was $60/hour, and we only did 90 minutes total - the trainer trains you, not the dog), and you might check with your nearest shelter or adoption center, or if there is a local rescue for dogs similar to yours they may have someone they frequently work with that they recommend.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:05 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
It does seem weird if the vet hasn't tried all the common antihistamines yet. Benadryl is kind of the least effective one, in my experience and it seems like general online experience is the same, and the most effective ones seem to be older ones that are sometimes harder to find in the US anymore, but you need to discuss dosage with your doctor. We have to do one round of steroids plus antihistamines several times a day to keep one of my dogs relatively well for her bad allergy season every year.
Get a trainer to come do an assessment. Shouldn't take more than an hour for someone to check out the situation with fresh eyes and give you some starter suggestions. Meeting someone with difficult-dog-experience in your home is generally far more informational than the guesses of the vet who sees your dog only in "weird situation" mode.
Trainers are often much cheaper than you'd expect (ours was $60/hour, and we only did 90 minutes total - the trainer trains you, not the dog), and you might check with your nearest shelter or adoption center, or if there is a local rescue for dogs similar to yours they may have someone they frequently work with that they recommend.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:05 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Object aggression can be aggravated by pain or bad eyesight. It is also often a sign of insecurity. You don't say how recently you adopted him. I own a dog with a history of serious fear biting, that also showed itself with object aggression. This can be worked on, you will most likely need a proper trainer, not all biting is aggression based. The training will teach you how to handle such situations, but also even some basic obedience/agilty training can work miracles in establish trust & confidence between an owner & their dog & I highly recommend at least a few classes.
One thing we were taught by our trainer was to take objects away from our dog regularly, we started with low value items that he didn't want to guard. We'd tell him drop it, & then pick up the item pretend to do something with it & then most times the reward for being a good boy was to get the item back, if I needed to keep the item I swapped it for a tasty treat.
In our dogs case his possessiveness over items was fear that he would loose the item forever. We slowly worked up to higher value items. Over 2 years or so he has gone from a dog that would fear guard pretty much every toy or treat he had to one I can take anything from, even pulling trash etc from his mouth if he finds it, because he trusts that it's not a punishment it's just a thing that is happening.
On the subject of allergies, if you are in the US fall is a terrible time for allergies of the toes in one of my dogs due to moulds etc in the leaves. He eats his toes raw until the first good freeze. Is your vet avoiding antihistamines for a reason?
posted by wwax at 1:42 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
One thing we were taught by our trainer was to take objects away from our dog regularly, we started with low value items that he didn't want to guard. We'd tell him drop it, & then pick up the item pretend to do something with it & then most times the reward for being a good boy was to get the item back, if I needed to keep the item I swapped it for a tasty treat.
In our dogs case his possessiveness over items was fear that he would loose the item forever. We slowly worked up to higher value items. Over 2 years or so he has gone from a dog that would fear guard pretty much every toy or treat he had to one I can take anything from, even pulling trash etc from his mouth if he finds it, because he trusts that it's not a punishment it's just a thing that is happening.
On the subject of allergies, if you are in the US fall is a terrible time for allergies of the toes in one of my dogs due to moulds etc in the leaves. He eats his toes raw until the first good freeze. Is your vet avoiding antihistamines for a reason?
posted by wwax at 1:42 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have a similar situation with a new abandoned/traumatized dog who turned out to have been in pain from an ear infection. My comment: I hope you have better luck finding a trainer than I did.
A young vet, following an "air snap" from this dog, insisted among other things that I hire a certified behavioral specialist, not just a trainer; turns out there's only one such person in the state, and she is charging $470 for one meeting plus weekly followups by email. That was the deal from every trainer I talked with, but at least she was the least expensive. I have to keep a daily journal and submit to her weekly: halfway through, she has failed to respond this past week. Her comments have all been conventional wisdom.
(The other trainers were all about my being more 'alpha,' which would be a big mistake with this dog. Anyway, I'm feeling like a real sucker for having followed instructions and paid up.)
posted by mmiddle at 1:49 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
A young vet, following an "air snap" from this dog, insisted among other things that I hire a certified behavioral specialist, not just a trainer; turns out there's only one such person in the state, and she is charging $470 for one meeting plus weekly followups by email. That was the deal from every trainer I talked with, but at least she was the least expensive. I have to keep a daily journal and submit to her weekly: halfway through, she has failed to respond this past week. Her comments have all been conventional wisdom.
(The other trainers were all about my being more 'alpha,' which would be a big mistake with this dog. Anyway, I'm feeling like a real sucker for having followed instructions and paid up.)
posted by mmiddle at 1:49 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
My dog has environmental allergies that sound very similar to your dog's itching issues. We've tried lots of medications (including injections) and only two medications besides steroids have ever been successful - Atopica and Apoquel. Atopica worked really well for years but it is $100 a month, so a few months ago we switched to Apoquel. It works about 80% as well as the Atopica but it's half the price and that is an acceptable trade off for me right now. She does eat a grain free diet (because she's super picky and I had to try 100 foods to find one she likes), but we did food elimination tests for months with no results. I ended up taking her to an allergist who tested her and confirmed that the allergies were environmental (grasses, trees) rather than food-based. Also, some dogs improve to the point where they only need the Atopica every other day but mine took it for several years and still needed it daily or else the itching would flare up. Just some anecdata from an environmental allergy standpoint because most of what you hear is regarding food allergies. Hope he feels better soon!
posted by tatiana wishbone at 3:16 PM on October 26, 2015
posted by tatiana wishbone at 3:16 PM on October 26, 2015
I hope he's actively getting training from you now, rather than waiting until his medical issues are corrected. I would recommend a regular 5-10 minute routine of sit, stay, come, heel, down, sit, etc. For one thing, it will remind him that you're actually in charge, which will help with the aggression and other anxieties.
I did this with my sister's St. Bernard, who had snapped at me a few times, and it completely resolved the problem -- he learned that I was higher on the pecking order than him, and he's placid and friendly now. (But I still make him perform for resources most of the time, it's just good to keep the behavior reinforced.)
(Some) people forget that small dogs need training just like large dogs; it's good for them and for their relationship with their owners and other human beings.
posted by suelac at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I did this with my sister's St. Bernard, who had snapped at me a few times, and it completely resolved the problem -- he learned that I was higher on the pecking order than him, and he's placid and friendly now. (But I still make him perform for resources most of the time, it's just good to keep the behavior reinforced.)
(Some) people forget that small dogs need training just like large dogs; it's good for them and for their relationship with their owners and other human beings.
posted by suelac at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
We had a Jack Russell who had terrible itching issues. Hers turned out to be food allergies, and the only way to help her was make her food from scratch. It was easy, delicious, and much less expensive than the higher quality manufactured food. Results were immediate after starting the diet, within three days the difference was noticeable.
The best way to start is with 1/3 protein, 1/3 carbs, and 1/3 veggies. Easiest is rice, frozen chicken breasts, and green beans (salt-free or thoroughly rinsed to remove the salt.)
Our dog lived itch-free for 19 years, and I strongly considered starting a business. If you want more info, just let me know.
posted by raisingsand at 7:02 PM on October 26, 2015
The best way to start is with 1/3 protein, 1/3 carbs, and 1/3 veggies. Easiest is rice, frozen chicken breasts, and green beans (salt-free or thoroughly rinsed to remove the salt.)
Our dog lived itch-free for 19 years, and I strongly considered starting a business. If you want more info, just let me know.
posted by raisingsand at 7:02 PM on October 26, 2015
This is, I think, a trainer-level problem. I me-mailed you my recommendation for an incredible, reasonably priced NYC trainer, but in the meantime, Jean Donaldson's book Mine: A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs might be helpful. I really think this is an issue best evaulated and dealt with alongside a trainer, but this book can help you understand what's going on and gives some decent strategies for starting to treat/deal with it.
posted by MeadowlarkMaude at 4:47 AM on October 27, 2015
posted by MeadowlarkMaude at 4:47 AM on October 27, 2015
My dog (Tibetan Terrier/Lhasa mix) had terrible itching and scabbing problems his entire life. Switching him to a grain- and potato-free diet with expensive venison, buffalo, and pheasant-based foods got rid of his GI issues, but nothing short of steroids would give him any reprieve from his skin issues.
Comfortis turned out to be the huge miracle that changed everything. I had put him on Frontline and Advantage at various points without ever noticing a difference, but the newer generations of pesticides are the only thing that works. He had never actually gotten infested with fleas or anything either, it just seems like picking up one or two little bites sets his whole system off.
If you don't feel comfortable putting something like Comfortis through his system, Vectra is the only other solution I've found that works (avoid the Vectra 3D unless you have a real need for tick coverage). Believe me, I don't feel great about putting huge doses of pesticides through/on my dog, but it improves his quality of life so much that the choice is obvious.
posted by prosopagnosia at 5:50 AM on October 27, 2015
Comfortis turned out to be the huge miracle that changed everything. I had put him on Frontline and Advantage at various points without ever noticing a difference, but the newer generations of pesticides are the only thing that works. He had never actually gotten infested with fleas or anything either, it just seems like picking up one or two little bites sets his whole system off.
If you don't feel comfortable putting something like Comfortis through his system, Vectra is the only other solution I've found that works (avoid the Vectra 3D unless you have a real need for tick coverage). Believe me, I don't feel great about putting huge doses of pesticides through/on my dog, but it improves his quality of life so much that the choice is obvious.
posted by prosopagnosia at 5:50 AM on October 27, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks for all the advice - this will be very helpful next time I talk to the vet.
suelac: I'd been drilling him a little bit on basic obedience, but I've stepped it up after reading your suggestion.
posted by moonmilk at 6:45 PM on October 28, 2015
suelac: I'd been drilling him a little bit on basic obedience, but I've stepped it up after reading your suggestion.
posted by moonmilk at 6:45 PM on October 28, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
That isn't to say he doesn't scratch periodically -- he does, especially when he's nervous, but some of it is also that he knows that the scratching gets our attention, so it's sort of become his default "hey, I want something" signal to go outside or to tell us he wants to play or something like that.
Your "eating street garbage..." sentence suggests you let your dog roam outside unsupervised? If it is an allergy problem, that's going to make treatment difficult no matter what. The serums can over time reduce allergy reactions, but they're a lot more expensive than it would be to just control the dog's diet and don't let them roam unsupervised to eat whatever they find.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:41 AM on October 26, 2015