Fast and furious bamboo needed.
October 25, 2015 11:18 PM Subscribe
I think growing bamboo may be the solution to a problem I have. Really invasive bamboo.
I know planting invasive bamboo is generally considered a remarkably bad idea, but I have some special circumstances.
The street I live on is houses one side, and railroad tracks on the other. The tracks are about thirty feet from the road, with ten feet of trees and bushes as a sound barrier, and twenty feet of railroad ballast (large gravel for the rail bed.)
Sadly, for the second time in ten years the town has come through to "trim" the brush, which this time they defined as anything under twelve inches in diameter. So now we have a few trees, and a much louder train. The last time they did this, they promised they wouldn't be so severe. I'm shocked we were lied to.
So, this spring I want to plant bamboo. Something that would be about ten feet high, but will grow thick, and spread quickly. Something that, even if the town gives it the chop, will come right back . I'm not worried about it crossing under the road, it's twenty feet wide.
What's the best species for this? We live in New York, zone 7.
I know planting invasive bamboo is generally considered a remarkably bad idea, but I have some special circumstances.
The street I live on is houses one side, and railroad tracks on the other. The tracks are about thirty feet from the road, with ten feet of trees and bushes as a sound barrier, and twenty feet of railroad ballast (large gravel for the rail bed.)
Sadly, for the second time in ten years the town has come through to "trim" the brush, which this time they defined as anything under twelve inches in diameter. So now we have a few trees, and a much louder train. The last time they did this, they promised they wouldn't be so severe. I'm shocked we were lied to.
So, this spring I want to plant bamboo. Something that would be about ten feet high, but will grow thick, and spread quickly. Something that, even if the town gives it the chop, will come right back . I'm not worried about it crossing under the road, it's twenty feet wide.
What's the best species for this? We live in New York, zone 7.
Bamboo propagates almost exclusively vegetatively (by cutting and runner, not seed.) I don't think this is the way bamboo is going to spread into naive habitat.
posted by gingerest at 12:41 AM on October 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by gingerest at 12:41 AM on October 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm living close to the train and this has started to happen here too. Understandable from a "we don't want to have branches across the line" standpoint, but a bit of a bummer noise wise, especially with heavy freight during the night.
The fastest-growing solution here would be to encourage the native vegetation to grow. Chopped off brush has an extraordinary capability of bouncing back. Just water it properly in the dry season. Maybe even fertilize it.
posted by Namlit at 2:13 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
The fastest-growing solution here would be to encourage the native vegetation to grow. Chopped off brush has an extraordinary capability of bouncing back. Just water it properly in the dry season. Maybe even fertilize it.
posted by Namlit at 2:13 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is a terrible idea.
Someone did this at a house we had (planted bamboo on the berm of a railroad track between the track and our yard).
1)The bamboo did a very poor job of deadening the noise. The sound waves made their way through the bamboo just fine. It did very, very, very little to deaden the noise. My neighbor's tight cedar fence worked much better.
2) Bamboo has one goal in life -- it wants to take over the world. It will grow under the road and find its way into your yard. 20' is NOT a problem for bamboo. Really. It made it down the berm, across the tracks, and into the nature preserve on the other side! Now this was in a warmer climate, but given time it will spread even in NY. There is no such thing as non-invasive bamboo. It will get into your neighbor's yard, the railroad tracks. It will get everywhere. Bamboo is *evil*.
posted by LittleMy at 4:36 AM on October 26, 2015 [10 favorites]
Someone did this at a house we had (planted bamboo on the berm of a railroad track between the track and our yard).
1)The bamboo did a very poor job of deadening the noise. The sound waves made their way through the bamboo just fine. It did very, very, very little to deaden the noise. My neighbor's tight cedar fence worked much better.
2) Bamboo has one goal in life -- it wants to take over the world. It will grow under the road and find its way into your yard. 20' is NOT a problem for bamboo. Really. It made it down the berm, across the tracks, and into the nature preserve on the other side! Now this was in a warmer climate, but given time it will spread even in NY. There is no such thing as non-invasive bamboo. It will get into your neighbor's yard, the railroad tracks. It will get everywhere. Bamboo is *evil*.
posted by LittleMy at 4:36 AM on October 26, 2015 [10 favorites]
This sounds really awful; trains are soooo loud.
You've probably rejected this idea already, but how about a more intensive noise abatement strategy, like figuring out if you can get the town to subsidize building a wall?
posted by amtho at 5:16 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
You've probably rejected this idea already, but how about a more intensive noise abatement strategy, like figuring out if you can get the town to subsidize building a wall?
posted by amtho at 5:16 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
I really feel your pain on this one. I live on a rural road that has become increasingly busy over the years I lived here, so much so that I've also looked up bamboo. There is a house near me that grows it to block the road. They also have a fence that is about 8-9' high and the bamboo grows on the road side. It's very pretty in the summer and the spring and seems to do well despite the road salt. I found one website that has great info on it. One way I've seen to prevent the invasive nature of it is to sink large planters in the ground to contain spreading. Others include trenching. It seemed like more work then I was prepared to do so I decided against it although I would still like to get some for growth in a large planter I have for our deck. Instead I've gone with rhododendrons. I looked for the large hardy kind for my zone (6) and just planted them everywhere. They stay evergreen in winter and don't seem to be affected too much by the drought in southern New England. Another thing would be small maples that you can prune down to 10' pretty in fall esp. You could try boxwood too.
I'm assuming you live on a state/county road. Unfortunately there usually is a 20 to 40' setback from the center line in these cases that allows the governing body to come in and do what they want. Make sure you appeal to right government and in some cases suggest alternatives. The guys who prune in our area could care less unless I'm home and catch them in the act.
posted by lasamana at 5:28 AM on October 26, 2015
I'm assuming you live on a state/county road. Unfortunately there usually is a 20 to 40' setback from the center line in these cases that allows the governing body to come in and do what they want. Make sure you appeal to right government and in some cases suggest alternatives. The guys who prune in our area could care less unless I'm home and catch them in the act.
posted by lasamana at 5:28 AM on October 26, 2015
Aside from the invasive species thing mentioned above, if you're looking for something to absorb or reflect the noise, bamboo is not it. Big groves of bamboo make pretty good white noise generators because they make a rushing sound when wind rustles through, but it's not the plant you'd want to dampen your train noise. Everyone seems to think it will work great until they plant it. It gets everywhere, and won't do a damn thing about your acoustic issue. Since you have from now until the spring anyway, I'd recommend contacting your local city hall next week about the issue and suggest to them that their aggressive trimming has lowered the quality of life for you and your neighbors - maybe go together. A small-town newspaper reporter might take up your story for public interest.
posted by juniperesque at 6:08 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by juniperesque at 6:08 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
What about a row of fencing and a row of arborvitae in your own yard?
posted by slateyness at 6:18 AM on October 26, 2015
posted by slateyness at 6:18 AM on October 26, 2015
Vegetation really doesn't have a lot of sound absorption. It is great for white noise, masking other sounds but for the higher decibels of the train, you need a solid surface.
posted by amanda at 7:39 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by amanda at 7:39 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I live next to a double line of train tracks. I also grow bamboo in my back yard. I don't believe that this is the bamboo that you are looking for.
We have 20 to 30 trains per day going by. They do not blow their horns anymore, thanks to an agreement with the city. The engines, wheels, couplings, and track imperfections all make noise. The best thing to deflect that noise has been our 8 foot tall cedar fence.
We also have non-invasive clumping bamboo, although not near the tracks. The best bamboo we have is a Graceful Weavers bamboo. It is very dense, and has spread from a one foot clump into a five foot clump over 8 years of growth. It is 25 feet tall. While this would help your situation, the bamboo is not dense at ground level, so sound would come through between the clumps. All of the invasive spreading bamboo I have seen has lots of space between the culms, so lots of sound would pass through.
The area between our fence and the rocky slope is a drainage ditch, so it gets mowed twice per year. The railroad has a track mounted mower that they use every few years to cut the brush and trees that grow on the slope. Sometimes they come and spray defoliant, but mostly on the upper part of the slope. The best growing item on the slope it 10 foot tall grasses. I don't know if these are native to Texas, and if they would grow in your area, but they have roots as thick as your arm and spread. It has been accidentally transplanted by track maintenance bulldozers several times.
Good luck with your quest. Our best investment was better windows.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 8:18 AM on October 26, 2015
We have 20 to 30 trains per day going by. They do not blow their horns anymore, thanks to an agreement with the city. The engines, wheels, couplings, and track imperfections all make noise. The best thing to deflect that noise has been our 8 foot tall cedar fence.
We also have non-invasive clumping bamboo, although not near the tracks. The best bamboo we have is a Graceful Weavers bamboo. It is very dense, and has spread from a one foot clump into a five foot clump over 8 years of growth. It is 25 feet tall. While this would help your situation, the bamboo is not dense at ground level, so sound would come through between the clumps. All of the invasive spreading bamboo I have seen has lots of space between the culms, so lots of sound would pass through.
The area between our fence and the rocky slope is a drainage ditch, so it gets mowed twice per year. The railroad has a track mounted mower that they use every few years to cut the brush and trees that grow on the slope. Sometimes they come and spray defoliant, but mostly on the upper part of the slope. The best growing item on the slope it 10 foot tall grasses. I don't know if these are native to Texas, and if they would grow in your area, but they have roots as thick as your arm and spread. It has been accidentally transplanted by track maintenance bulldozers several times.
Good luck with your quest. Our best investment was better windows.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 8:18 AM on October 26, 2015
Point of information for the above discussion, all bamboo species are not foreign invaders. Native bamboo has been used by native Americans since pre-Columbian times, and there are several sizes and heights among them. for more information google Arundinaria tecta, Arundinaria gigantea, and Arundinaria appalachiana. Their habitats are in the southeastern US ranging as far as Texas, though , and I wonder whether they would survive in zone 7. As far as their sound-deadening qualities I'm agnostic. I suspect a wall or berm in combination with boxwood or juniper would serve as a better sound barrier.
But really, about the bamboo hating and xenophobia that dominates this thread: well-meaning posters should remember that the ecosystem is not static, but is constantly changing, and the decline of certain native species may not have so much to do with invaders as with changes brought on by human activities such as clear-cutting forests, draining swamps, building dams, roads, and railways, pesticide use, pollution, and yes, permanent climate change.
These things allow plants better suited to grow in the disturbed conditions created by humans, and after several generations left to themselves they may establish an environment to allow the original species to return to their old habitat. Or, in the continual progression of climate change, a different set of plants and animals may do better in the region. Merely replanting the old species may not be enough to reestablish their dominance. And where a niche exists unfilled, whatever species are present that can take advantage of that niche will move in.
Nostalgia about chestnuts is not enough to bring back the forests of American chestnuts which were devastated by and are still vulnerable to chestnut blight, but crossbred with Asian and European species there might be chestnut forests again. But they will be non-native species, just like many of the species we are already planting with such enthusiasm, everything from wheat and potatoes to apples, soybeans, peanuts, and cotton, while cursing and hacking down native plants we like to call "weeds".
Let's not be simplistic in our thinking. We are the both the problem and the solution, but the forests that once covered New York before they were cut down to feed charcoal production in the 1800s and paper mills in the 1900s will not return to their original state as long as humans are involved. Even so, there may be ways that other abundant ecologies can be established.
posted by halhurst at 9:27 AM on October 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
But really, about the bamboo hating and xenophobia that dominates this thread: well-meaning posters should remember that the ecosystem is not static, but is constantly changing, and the decline of certain native species may not have so much to do with invaders as with changes brought on by human activities such as clear-cutting forests, draining swamps, building dams, roads, and railways, pesticide use, pollution, and yes, permanent climate change.
These things allow plants better suited to grow in the disturbed conditions created by humans, and after several generations left to themselves they may establish an environment to allow the original species to return to their old habitat. Or, in the continual progression of climate change, a different set of plants and animals may do better in the region. Merely replanting the old species may not be enough to reestablish their dominance. And where a niche exists unfilled, whatever species are present that can take advantage of that niche will move in.
Nostalgia about chestnuts is not enough to bring back the forests of American chestnuts which were devastated by and are still vulnerable to chestnut blight, but crossbred with Asian and European species there might be chestnut forests again. But they will be non-native species, just like many of the species we are already planting with such enthusiasm, everything from wheat and potatoes to apples, soybeans, peanuts, and cotton, while cursing and hacking down native plants we like to call "weeds".
Let's not be simplistic in our thinking. We are the both the problem and the solution, but the forests that once covered New York before they were cut down to feed charcoal production in the 1800s and paper mills in the 1900s will not return to their original state as long as humans are involved. Even so, there may be ways that other abundant ecologies can be established.
posted by halhurst at 9:27 AM on October 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
A friend had a stand of bamboo along her back fence - invasive bamboo, not the sane kind - and she eventually had to rip it all out and salt the earth because it was sending runners across the yard and growing up under her deck. Invasive bamboo is bad news - you can't point it in just one direction.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:52 AM on October 26, 2015
posted by restless_nomad at 11:52 AM on October 26, 2015
I can testify that bamboo does not stop sound. I have 15 feet of bamboo between my house and the neighbor's. I can't see what they're doing in their living room but I can hear it quite well. I think a fence and double pane windows would serve you much better.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
You need ~70-100 feet deep of plants to cut the noise by half. Combining several noise reduction techniques (reflect, absorb, refract, mask) can be easier.
Fences and berms can make a big difference and don't have to be that wide. Densely constructed fences reflect sound and flexible fences (fiberglass, corrugated metal) absorb sound. Building a fence/wall can be very expensive, but there are fairly economical options. Plants tend to refract the sound. You also want the barrier to be as close as possible to the sound source. White noise, like a fountain or wind in many tree/bamboo (non-invasive please!) leaves can help mask the sound. Layering noise reduction techniques can be much more effective than going all out on one. Reflect as much sound as you can back to the source, absorb a bunch, then refract and mask as much of the rest as you can.
Landscape designers think a lot about noise reduction and you may be able to hire one to help design and implement a strategy - or check out landscape design noise reduction materials to DIY.
posted by congen at 12:37 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Fences and berms can make a big difference and don't have to be that wide. Densely constructed fences reflect sound and flexible fences (fiberglass, corrugated metal) absorb sound. Building a fence/wall can be very expensive, but there are fairly economical options. Plants tend to refract the sound. You also want the barrier to be as close as possible to the sound source. White noise, like a fountain or wind in many tree/bamboo (non-invasive please!) leaves can help mask the sound. Layering noise reduction techniques can be much more effective than going all out on one. Reflect as much sound as you can back to the source, absorb a bunch, then refract and mask as much of the rest as you can.
Landscape designers think a lot about noise reduction and you may be able to hire one to help design and implement a strategy - or check out landscape design noise reduction materials to DIY.
posted by congen at 12:37 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately as many people have pointed out, bamboo is not good for sound issues. Fast growing shrubbery is the thing.
People often say that "plants do nothing for sound" but they are wrong. I've lived in a place where landlords cut down trees and shrubs and suddenly we heard conversations on the sidewalk we weren't hearing before. In the case of trains, foliage probably also traps a lot of particulate matter that you'd otherwise be breathing.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:55 PM on October 26, 2015
People often say that "plants do nothing for sound" but they are wrong. I've lived in a place where landlords cut down trees and shrubs and suddenly we heard conversations on the sidewalk we weren't hearing before. In the case of trains, foliage probably also traps a lot of particulate matter that you'd otherwise be breathing.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:55 PM on October 26, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
Can you soundproof your own dwelling better, or build a fence?
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 11:35 PM on October 25, 2015 [12 favorites]