Why do guys put me on a pedestal, then friend-zone me?
October 20, 2015 4:40 PM   Subscribe

Recently, I've been frustratingly "friend-zoned" by two guys who seemed to like me, how do I stop conflating platonic love with romantic love?

I have quite a few male friends and can usually tell the difference. But recently, I've been completely failing at this! I've consistently had boyfriends up until the past year and a half during a self-proclaimed hiatus which I am now ready to end.

Guy 1: I've posted about this guy previously. We've been friends for a decade - but haven't spent a lot of time in person due to physical distance. This recently changed however. He has told me I'm "exactly his type", tells me I'm beautiful AND often expresses admiration for my personality traits. Recently, in person, he said I was a "much stronger person" than him/started to get a bit gushy. However, he has a girlfriend and tends to make false promises about all the wonderful things we'll do together, then drops off the face of the planet once we meet in person every so often. If he wanted more, he would not be with this girlfriend. So, I have cut off communication in order to get my life back on track and because morally it's the right thing to do. Cue spending time with...

Guy 2: Friends for six years. Hit it off straight away but were in relationships. This has been consistently platonic until about 6 months ago when we visited me in another country (while I was working). Out of nowhere, he started gushing about me to his friends. Things like "she's definitely the more attractive one", telling his male friend I was a "fantastic person" compared to him etc. Checking me out & looking at me in a doting manner. People were asking if we were a couple. So I amped it up & suggested we spend more time together one on one. Since then, he invites me out a lot & we chat every couple of days. He's become a constant in my life - but tonight he mentioned a "girl I like", before joking it would never work out because of long distance. Considering how close we've been, I felt crushed!

On one hand, I have invested in these friendships because yes, I really genuinely like the guys as people. But then I get a vibe that feelings are shifting on both sides - and seem to be proved wrong! What's going on and how might I be responsible for this confusion? How do I better gage what they are really feeling in the future?
posted by Kat_Dubs to Human Relations (26 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Guy 1 has another girlfriend, so not sure what you expected?
Guy 2- did you make any affectionate moves- touch his arm, or leg? Anything? After years of friends it can take years to break the ice.
BTW, the friend zone is a crappy thing, if you want to be friends then be friend, if you only want a romance down the line, move on. It's icky to be fronds under false pretenses.
posted by TenaciousB at 4:46 PM on October 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Um - never sure what the rules are on here for being able to respond? Guy 2 - I hug him a lot & find myself rubbing/touching his back sometimes. He touches my arm a lot & doesn't do this with everyone. My view on this friendship began to change when a) he began complimenting me all the time - I felt special! combined with b) I realised what a great guy was and Guy 1 - I know, so why act like he's pursuing/trying to court me?

ps. how can I ask out guy 2 if he has just told me he likes another girl? Now, that seems icky and bad for my self-esteem!
posted by Kat_Dubs at 4:57 PM on October 20, 2015


Ask guy #2 out on a date. Like obviously a date, not just "hanging out" or "spending time together".
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:57 PM on October 20, 2015 [7 favorites]


You should make your feelings more clear to Guy 2. Mentioning a girl he likes but that he doesn't intend to have a relationship does not necessarily mean he isn't interested in you. Unless you have better reasons to believe he isn't interested, it may well just be that he thinks you aren't interested in him. Just talk to him!
posted by ssg at 4:58 PM on October 20, 2015 [11 favorites]


ask guy2 on a date, a date date, a date that is a date with the possibility of kissing. It will be super scary but you'll get your answer. Good luck!
posted by Sebmojo at 5:10 PM on October 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


Guy 1 is poor object choice. He's not available. Lots of people will say flattering things when they know that either you or they are otherwise spoken for. That's the case here. He's possibly pushing boundaries and being overly flirty when he's already taken. This is a common type in my experience. He may feel quite comfortable with you and you may also be having very wishful feelings about him. But, this is a no-go.

Guy 2 could be an option. Why not ask him out on a date? Use the word "date". Make it clear it's a departure from your usual hang-outs. I'm assuming that when you say you two "used to be platonic" and now you aren't that it means that you two had a some sexual activity happening, or at least make-outs? Hugging and casual physical contact among friends isn't something I'd consider non-platonic. I'm a touchy person and I hug, touch, and closed-mouth kiss friends without it being non-platonic. Make it very clear that you want to go into unambiguously non-platonic dating territory.
posted by quince at 5:14 PM on October 20, 2015 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: I appreciate the suggestions...but I'm not sure why people think I should ask him out when he's just told me likes another girl. The problem with it is I don't think he was just saying this to gauge my reaction. He had been spending time with her because he apparently liked her (not as dates, mind you, as part of a group).

Isn't it only a masochist that asks out someone that has already stated interest in someone else? No quince, by used to be platonic I just meant that my feelings have changed and I thought his had too. It's only ever went as far as hand holding!
posted by Kat_Dubs at 5:18 PM on October 20, 2015


Best answer: Make words come out of your face to create boundaries.

Guy 1, for the most part, if you want to be friends with him you have to accept that he is how he is (and you have to like him as-is or don't be friends with him) but you also have to say "hey, don't do that back-burner-girlfriend thing with me, be respectful of the friendship okay?"

Guy 2: "Hey, you're being superambiguous lately and making me think you wanted a thing but then you're talking about other girls you like. Am I your Powdered Girlfriend Substitute or are we going to be friends - where you don't treat me like a girlfriend - or are you trying to hint that you want me to make a move? We're adults, let's treat each other like it."

Do not wait around hoping for their table scraps and mistaking the rinds for the fruit. Say out loud what is and isn't okay with you, and walk if they can't respect that.

The answer already exists. Stop being afraid to know it, because knowing doesn't change anything except stopping you from living in daydreamland.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:21 PM on October 20, 2015 [92 favorites]


What's going on and how might I be responsible for this confusion?

You might be failing to ask them on dates before they decide "oh well, maybe this isn't actually going anywhere" and decide they should move on to focusing their romantic interest on someone else.

Rather than speaking up straightforwardly when you're interested, you might be playing guessing games about what they're feeling.
posted by salvia at 5:25 PM on October 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Great answer Lyn. I have to say that I think both of these men have been acting like boyfriends in some ways, seemingly without having any serious intention of dating. And yet - I know they think a lot of me and I do think they are attracted to me.

"Make words come out of your face to create boundaries" - I guess that's true and the reason I don't is because I feel like it would be so easy for the guy to bat it back & say I got the wrong idea. When it's a guy you haven't known long there's less to lose - I'm obviously scared to rock the boat with friends even when it needs to be rocked...
posted by Kat_Dubs at 5:40 PM on October 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


...What's going on and how might I be responsible for this confusion?...

I wouldn't beat yourself up; at the end of the day, humans are messy and sloppy, and no one can read minds. The same way that you don't know where you stand with him, why would he know the reverse? Some people need words to make the connection and verify the ambiguity. But if you want to move beyond this, you have to ask.

The other thing small thing I will mention, based on what happened with number one (ie, cut off communication to get life back on track), my guess is that you won't float around in ambiguity forever, especially if this person #2 starts dating someone. So if you follow this same trajectory and don't change anything, at some point, you risk losing the friendship.

Right now you have NOTHING to lose, only to gain. If he says yes, then yeah, you get to explore a potential relationship. If he says no, then you can let go of those attachments and find a new person. Also, take it from someone who has been in your shoes (in regards to person #2), you can float around in this state for months, years...why not go into the direction that you want sooner rather than later?

You also ask why he tells you about someone he likes. If he truly is a friend, this is what friends do - share things about their lives and hope the other person encourages them, cheers for them, etc. If you can't handle that side or don't want to deal with these things, you could tell him something like "I have a small crush on you, lets not talk about this" - if that is what you want to do. He really hasn't done anything other than spend time with someone. There is no marriage status or partnered status unless we missed something in the explanation.
posted by Wolfster at 5:48 PM on October 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


Don't talk yourself into the stakes being so high. They're not. If someone doesn't like you calling them out on their deliberately-ambivalent shit and gets their feelings hurt, that's not a person you really need close to you anyway.

It's scary, but scary like "trying a new hobby" not scary like "becoming a Navy SEAL."
posted by Lyn Never at 6:08 PM on October 20, 2015 [18 favorites]


I think you could turn the question around a little. Something along the lines of, "Why am I spending a lot time with guys that I have a romantic interest in who are only ambivalently or ambiguously interested in me?"

It could be that part of you is not as eager to break your single streak as the other part of you thinks you are. It could be that you are getting something out of that attention that makes it worthwhile. It could even be that you like them enough as friends that you enjoy their company even with this unknown hanging over it, in which case, why feel bad about it? It could be something else. It could just be bad luck. I don't see enough in common between these two experiences to draw any meaningful conclusions.

(How do you know what the second guy was saying about you behind your back?)
posted by Salamandrous at 6:40 PM on October 20, 2015 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: In the case of Guy 1, I think that is a good way of looking at it. In terms of Guy 2, we had definitely been growing closer over a period of months and "I like this girl" thing was a genuinely unexpected curveball, ie. the interest was looking less and less ambiguous. He wasn't saying those complimentary things behind my back - he says them quite openly in front of people. It makes me feel really special and lovely because he doesn't seem to do it willy nilly - but oh well. Maybe he's just going to be a really great friend...!

Maybe you're right about my reluctancy to break the single streak in a way, something to consider. I think the only danger with enjoying their company is that they adequately fulfil me emotionally, thus making me lazy enough to not bother seeking out a romantic relationship further afield.

PS. Why ARE men ambiguous? I mean, I feel like both of these guys have put a certain amount of emotional effort into our friendships that overstep the platonic mark. Why bother?
posted by Kat_Dubs at 6:47 PM on October 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's pretty simple, really. You're young and likely just out of school. In school, kids run in packs and friend circles and everyone gossips to everyone and guys and girls of the same age are in close proximity and want to maintain friendships and social circles but maybe date and maybe just make out and everyone knows everything about everyone it's confusing and annoying and wow I was glad to leave all of that nonsense behind.

Your problem is called "being young" and "being around young dudes who are really still boys."

Get an office job and an OkCupid profile. Start going out to bars after work. Men who are interested will message you or buy you a drink, and ask you out. You may or may not click but at least you'll know they think you're attractive and potentially romantically interesting. And you won't waste all this time.
posted by quincunx at 6:50 PM on October 20, 2015 [3 favorites]


Mod note: Hay Kat_Dubs, AskMe isn't a space for back-and-forth discussion. Please let people respond as they will rather than engaging with everyone. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:50 PM on October 20, 2015 [7 favorites]


Make words come out of your face

This is one of the all time great pieces of advice, is applicable to this situation in particular and many troubling situations in general, and bears repeating.

MAKE WORDS COME OUT OF YOUR FACE.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 7:12 PM on October 20, 2015 [36 favorites]


As a guy, I don't think I ever friend-zoned a girl unless I got the impression that she friend-zoned me first. I can think of several girls I had been close with, but whom I didn't feel like I could ask out. My biggest problem was procrastination. I'd meet a girl and be interested, but then I wouldn't ask her out right away. Then I'd feel like I couldn't bring it up again because we'd been hanging out as friends. In one case, this went on for a couple of years, where we would sometimes see each other several times a week. Every time we'd hang out, I would think about asking this girl out, but every time I'd chicken out. I'd always think to myself "if only she'd give me some indication!" But she always waited for me to make the move, so nothing ever happened. I never even so much as held hands with that girl.

I have no idea if that's anything like your situation, but I can tell you, it almost certainly won't hurt if you expressed interest. Guys, in general, tend to be flattered by attention from girls, even if unwanted.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:27 PM on October 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


I think you might be making some fundamental errors in how friendships with the opposite sex work, what attraction looks like in a situation like this, etc.

For one thing, it's highly unusual in my experience to be close friends with someone for 5-10 years and then suddenly have them fall in love with you. A few months or a year, sure, but in years and years of friendship, you tend to "friendzone" people naturally, just because life is too dramatic if you're secretly crushing on your friend Kat_Dubs for years without ever saying or doing anything. I could see the "they were in a relationship when we met" thing if it was a year or two, but again, six years? That's not bad timing, that's a person who is not interested in dating you.

In general, anyone who has a girlfriend, you can assume is not into you, absent very obvious evidence to the contrary. And by obvious evidence I mean you've slept together, they say "I'm leaving my girlfriend to be with you", etc.

Things like someone saying you're pretty, being nice or helpful to you, the two of you getting along like a house on fire, etc. are OK signifiers that someone who is single and who you just met might be interested in you. But they're not really enough for people you've been friends with going on a decade, who are in committed relationships.

I know this stuff is hard. I'm currently dating a guy who used to be a close friend, and who I assumed over and over was definitely not into me and just being nice, just a friendly person, we just had a lot in common, etc. and then it turned out he WAS crazy about me and thought I was the one rejecting him. So I really feel you. It can be impossible to figure these social cues out when you mix friendship and dating. But, yeah, sorry, my advice is to branch out and maybe look outside your group of close friends for the time being.
posted by Sara C. at 7:30 PM on October 20, 2015 [4 favorites]


Also, forgot to say this:

My recent experience getting together with a close friend shows that MAKING WORDS COME OUT OF YOUR FACE is the only way to move forward, here.
posted by Sara C. at 7:35 PM on October 20, 2015 [6 favorites]


I don't really see anywhere in your question that you want to be with either of these guys. So, you may have just friend-zoned us!

Guy #1 is a non-starter. And, frankly, it's inappropriate for him to be overly flirty and solicitous when he is obviously taken. I would give that crap some side-eye and the next time anything like that comes up say, "Hey, I like you a lot but you're taken and this talk makes me uncomfortable. Let's keep things on the clear." Make eye contact when you say this, then give him a friendly chuck on the arm and busy yourself getting a beer or something elsewhere.

Guy #2. If you're interested, it's in your court. Since I'm not totally sure if you want this guy, I'm not really sure what you should do. But, if you are interested in trying dating you'll just have to come right out and say it. "Hey, I've really enjoyed hanging out with you lately and I've started wondering if the two of us have any further potential. You seem to like me as well...what's your story right now?" Listen and make your next move accordingly.
posted by amanda at 7:46 PM on October 20, 2015


Flirting is just part of the background hum of being in the world, but when you're younger it can be hard to interpret - to tell the difference between the signal and the noise. Maybe imagine it as a volume knob: the kind of flirting you're talking about is like a 2 or 3. Kissing after a night of drinking might be a 6, someone directly confessing their love to you and asking you to run away with them would be a 9. There's no reason that either of the dudes can't be transmitting at level 2 or 3 to dozens of girls. All it signals is a baseline level of attraction; there's no reason he can't be attracted to other girls at the same time, and feel so casual about it might mention one of them to you.

If you were strongly into the dude, you could use his signal 2 or 3 as a sign that you could safely turn the volume up to 4 or 5, intensify the flirting and see what happens. But if you feel like this is constantly happening to you - you feel like you're always sensing strong attraction, developing crushes, and then discovering them evaporating out from under you - then you probably need to recalibrate. Stop interpreting the background hum of 2 or 3 (compliments, eye contact, smiles, light touch - or what you call "vibes") as a signal of something significant. Try to tune that out and wait until you receive a signal that's harder to ignore.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 9:26 PM on October 20, 2015 [7 favorites]


I don't really have a good grasp of who lives where in this situation (but I think you tend to travel a lot ??) but . . . . . . it seems entirely possible that for Guy #2 the "girl he likes but long distance problems" is YOU.

If you two aren't often in the same area either because you genuinely live in different places or you're often traveling for work (again, hard to tell from this or your past questions), then he could be feeling really uncertain (or he's shy, or he's a Guess Culture, or whatever) and that was yet another way of hinting that he likes you likes you.

I mean, you like him (at least somewhat), and all you've done is "suggested we spend more time together one on one" - which is still pretty vague. To this internet stranger, it sure seems like y'all are just circling around each other and trying to read ambiguous signals and yeah, asking somebody out directly on an explicit DATE is scary, but if one of you doesn't do it soon the whole thing is just gonna fade away.

One of you needs to make words come out of your face, and it's the 21st century - it might as well be you.


P.S.: If guy #1 is the one from a lot of your previous questions, the one you've known on the internet for a decade - yeah, let him go and put more effort into letting him go. He's been occupying way too much space in your brain for way too long with no payoff on the horizon. Even if Guy #2 doesn't work out, it's long past time to move on from Guy #1.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:43 PM on October 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


You should totally not assume that guys are any better at romance stuff than you are. We've had several FPPs about how oblivious they can be. You would not believe how oblivious. E.g.

I'm sorry, but if you want to set your mind at ease it's going to have to be something like "Hey Bob, we've known each other for a long time and I really like you. Would you be interested in going on a date with me? A proper date, not just going out somewhere."

Other people here can probably think of other/better ways to express this, but you need to be explicit. Because what it sounds like to me is, you two do like each other in some way, but you are not communicating and you're both getting frustrated.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:47 PM on October 20, 2015


Guy #1 is off-limits. Guy #2 sends conflicting signals - just do that word mouth thing people suggest upthread.

Having said all that, your other question was how do I stop conflating platonic love with romantic love?

I'm getting the feeling that if somebody says a nice thing about you, you go "omg, he is into me and we should date" - but how about your own emotions? Don't mistake others' interest in you as you having an interest in someone else - that only leads to heartache and really one-sided relationships.

I'd suggest you keep being single for a while until you meet someone that really makes your stomach flutter and your heart sing. And not try to date someone just because they express a mild interest in you.
posted by kariebookish at 1:50 AM on October 21, 2015 [7 favorites]


Ok. You are making some incorrect assumptions that are tripping you up.

1. You seem to think that Friendzone is a thing. It isn't. if you want to date someone, you have to open your mouth and say so. If you continue to be someone's friend and are secretly bitter or plotting for a future where they want you back- that's not really friendship. It's pining. And it's shady. Don't do that.

2. You seem to think that "likeing" someone means that they want to date you. That first dude probably just wants attention from you. Or to get in your pants. That second one might like you and want to date you, but you're going to have to ask.

3. That likeing someone means you don't like anyone else- which seems to display a little cognitive dissonance there since you are literally talking about likeing two guys at once- yet can't seem to fathom how guy #2 could possibly like some girl and also maybe like you.

So. Learn from this:
1. Use your words and be genuine while approaching relationships. Your friends should not be boyfriends-in-waiting.
2. Men are complete being who have nuanced lives and relationships. That means that when you begin a relationship- they might have other things going on that have nothing to do with you at all- like a crush on some random girl that lives very far away. You shouldn't be afraid to ask the dude on a date because he has some shallow, squishy feelings about someone else. He doesn't sound hung up on her.
posted by Blisterlips at 6:00 PM on October 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


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