Moving from Seattle to Shoreline?
October 12, 2015 5:04 PM Subscribe
Looking to expand our living space, our small but growing family is considering moving from south Seattle to Shoreline. Advice, tips, or things to be aware of?
Our family (me, my spouse, and our three month old) currently own a house in south Seattle. It's a great little house, and we love the neighborhood. But the house is starting to feel a little cramped with three of us and all our stuff, and if three becomes four, it will definitely be close quarters. So we are starting to look at larger houses, and for a number of reasons, Shoreline has caught our eye.
As everyone knows, housing prices in Seattle are crazy and getting crazier. Finding a house with room to grow, close to good public schools, and for a reasonable price seems like an impossibility within Seattle city limits. Two out of three is doable, but all three is not. Browsing the real estate websites, I've seen some gorgeous houses in Shoreline, near to great schools, selling for way less than they would in Seattle. We know that the area is less walkable, less nightlife, etc. than Seattle, and I think we can deal with that. Are there other things I should be aware of? Certain parts to avoid? Other parts to look at? Any parts of Seattle I should give a second look?
I work in downtown Seattle but am fine taking the bus. Frankly my commute right now from the south on surface streets is so terrible that it can't possibly be that much worse from the north.
Basically right now I am drooling over the huge lots and nice houses up north but don't want to rush into a bad decision.
Our family (me, my spouse, and our three month old) currently own a house in south Seattle. It's a great little house, and we love the neighborhood. But the house is starting to feel a little cramped with three of us and all our stuff, and if three becomes four, it will definitely be close quarters. So we are starting to look at larger houses, and for a number of reasons, Shoreline has caught our eye.
As everyone knows, housing prices in Seattle are crazy and getting crazier. Finding a house with room to grow, close to good public schools, and for a reasonable price seems like an impossibility within Seattle city limits. Two out of three is doable, but all three is not. Browsing the real estate websites, I've seen some gorgeous houses in Shoreline, near to great schools, selling for way less than they would in Seattle. We know that the area is less walkable, less nightlife, etc. than Seattle, and I think we can deal with that. Are there other things I should be aware of? Certain parts to avoid? Other parts to look at? Any parts of Seattle I should give a second look?
I work in downtown Seattle but am fine taking the bus. Frankly my commute right now from the south on surface streets is so terrible that it can't possibly be that much worse from the north.
Basically right now I am drooling over the huge lots and nice houses up north but don't want to rush into a bad decision.
I moved from Seattle to Shoreline and I really like it here, but I'm recovering from a concussion and am a bit embarrassed about my current writing skills / poor editing ability. If you send me an e-mail I'd be happy to answer questions about specific neighborhoods, schools, etc. in a slower, less coherent way.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:32 PM on October 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:32 PM on October 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh I feel you. Whenever I'm in Shoreline I drool too. But I wanna warn you as the parent of an elementary aged kid, your commute might matter more in a few years when you have all sorts of other kid activities to do.
If you can find a glorious affordable place where my kid doesn't have to go to private school, let me know please.
posted by k8t at 7:46 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you can find a glorious affordable place where my kid doesn't have to go to private school, let me know please.
posted by k8t at 7:46 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I work in downtown Seattle but am fine taking the bus.
My partners family lives in shoreline, i've been up there a bunch. Transit for the most part, sucks. You can get home via one express bus to the 145th transit station on i5 and nowhere else. The rest of the buses are INCREDIBLY slow and at best run out of northgate transit center, but some options(like the 73) just slowly worm their way up there and take obscenely long, especially at peak hours.
What i'm getting at, is that it isn't a place to live if you want to be low car or car free. It's not walkable, and you're going to drive even if it's just go to a few blocks to the grocery store. Compounding this is that a lot of the streets don't have sidewalks(or stop having them at seemingly random points). For example, to get to her families house via transit i end up walking down a long poorly lit road with no sidewalks people do 30~ or more on, then one that has a sidewalk on one side, then down an unlit curved road that doesn't even have a "shoulder" to walk on right in the actual road. It doesn't just feel car centric, but anti pedestrian.
Despite this, i have considered it in a long game sort of way because the light rail will be coming there. The trick is making sure the infill stations get built(and/or finding a house near where a station will be so you can walk to it).
I am used to, and likely spoiled by living in central seattle most of my life... But i was really turned off by the fact that most of the streets i would not feel safe letting a kid walk around on(and myself, didn't feel safe walking on) and the fact that i couldn't really walk to anything.
I would pretty much only consider it if you could find a house that met your requirements and was in a nook near a light rail station, maybe a couple bus routes, and a few blocks from a grocery store(or at least a walgreens or something, sheesh). The few times it's snowed around here, that house might as well have been in the mountains. Couldn't drive in or out, so you couldn't access anything without a 1.5-2 hour hiking journey to the distant grocery store and back. Really put it in perspective for me, in addition to the other problems.
You say you're ok with that stuff, but i'd take a really long hard look at it. If you're ok with it, that's fine, but just how isolated and car-only it can be for how close it actually is really got to me. It's a lot more suburban than the short drive when traffic is light would make you feel.
posted by emptythought at 7:47 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
My partners family lives in shoreline, i've been up there a bunch. Transit for the most part, sucks. You can get home via one express bus to the 145th transit station on i5 and nowhere else. The rest of the buses are INCREDIBLY slow and at best run out of northgate transit center, but some options(like the 73) just slowly worm their way up there and take obscenely long, especially at peak hours.
What i'm getting at, is that it isn't a place to live if you want to be low car or car free. It's not walkable, and you're going to drive even if it's just go to a few blocks to the grocery store. Compounding this is that a lot of the streets don't have sidewalks(or stop having them at seemingly random points). For example, to get to her families house via transit i end up walking down a long poorly lit road with no sidewalks people do 30~ or more on, then one that has a sidewalk on one side, then down an unlit curved road that doesn't even have a "shoulder" to walk on right in the actual road. It doesn't just feel car centric, but anti pedestrian.
Despite this, i have considered it in a long game sort of way because the light rail will be coming there. The trick is making sure the infill stations get built(and/or finding a house near where a station will be so you can walk to it).
I am used to, and likely spoiled by living in central seattle most of my life... But i was really turned off by the fact that most of the streets i would not feel safe letting a kid walk around on(and myself, didn't feel safe walking on) and the fact that i couldn't really walk to anything.
I would pretty much only consider it if you could find a house that met your requirements and was in a nook near a light rail station, maybe a couple bus routes, and a few blocks from a grocery store(or at least a walgreens or something, sheesh). The few times it's snowed around here, that house might as well have been in the mountains. Couldn't drive in or out, so you couldn't access anything without a 1.5-2 hour hiking journey to the distant grocery store and back. Really put it in perspective for me, in addition to the other problems.
You say you're ok with that stuff, but i'd take a really long hard look at it. If you're ok with it, that's fine, but just how isolated and car-only it can be for how close it actually is really got to me. It's a lot more suburban than the short drive when traffic is light would make you feel.
posted by emptythought at 7:47 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I live in Shoreline. I lived in Seattle proper for 10+ years and my husband and I bought a house here after house-hunting in Seattle for two years. One of things you should keep in mind about Shoreline, and soliciting opinions about it, is that most people under the age of 30 only think of Shoreline as "that strip of Aurora" or "that place along I-5 after you leave Seattle going north." Neither is a very flattering picture, because Aurora is ugly as sin and the highway is the highway. There is a lot of diversity among the neighborhoods of Shoreline. So when you say you are drooling over nice houses on large lots I don't know if you are talking about the multi-million dollar homes of the Highlands, or 1500 sq ft house for 400k in the North City area.
The great things about Shoreline:
The school district: The schools in Shoreline are very strong, most especially when you compare the schools to other King County (including Seattle) districts with similar income levels. People in Shoreline support the schools. You ask anyone why they moved to Shoreline - the schools. The thing that really strikes me about the schools here is that it does not appear to be a system of haves and have-nots, like in Seattle. Which brings me to my next point:
Shoreline is diverse: Shoreline schools are doing well while serving a diverse population. I like the diversity of Shoreline. I grew up in Los Angeles so I often find myself giving the side-eye to what some PNWers claim as 'diversity' but Shoreline is really cool that way.
Transit: Right, not a great place to live car-free, but there are definitely options for getting into and out of downtown Seattle via bus. (If you do drive, it is very, very easy to shoot into Seattle on I-5.) Most noteworthy is that Shoreline will have two light rail stations in 2023: NE 145th and NE 185th.
Nice amenities: The community stuff here is pretty nice, lots of it kid-oriented. Excellent libraries (part of KCLS), parks (we have lots of wooded areas! a beach!), sports leagues, outdoor preschool, jazz walk, etc.
The downsides of Shoreline:
Rezone/Point Wells: There are development issues that Shoreline is facing that the government is not handling well. The first issue is what is known locally as the 'radical rezone.' When Sound Transit made the decision to put in light rail stops at 145th and 185th, they recommended that the city rezone some of the areas around the future stations to encourage denser development. Great, makes sense, everyone understands that and supports that. However, the city came up with a rezoning plan with very little input from residents, that changes large areas of Shoreline from single-family housing zone to 6-story mixed use. It's a mess. There isn't a plan to improve the area, they just changed the zoning from one extreme to the other. The second issue is Point Wells. Point Wells is a little blob of land previously used in an industrial capacity north of the Richmond Beach area. RB is in Shoreline (part of King County). Point Wells is in unincorporated Snohomish County, but the only way to access it is through Richmond Beach on a narrow road. Snohomish County approved a private development for 3000 new housing units on the blob. No one told Shoreline. Development hasn't started and probably won't for a long while due to litigation. I have lots of opinions about the Shoreline city government and the upcoming election but my husband just told me I should spend time with him instead of typing.
Sidewalks: Shoreline only became a city 20 years ago - prior to that it was unincorporated King County. Just like north Seattle there aren't enough sidewalks. It's the number 1 issue when Shoreline residents are polled, it's not like we don't want it. It's just unclear how to pay for it.
Hopelessly uncool: It's all young families who are moving here. If you are interested in appearing cool, don't move to Shoreline. It's not even anti-cool. It just is.
posted by stowaway at 9:59 PM on October 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
The great things about Shoreline:
The school district: The schools in Shoreline are very strong, most especially when you compare the schools to other King County (including Seattle) districts with similar income levels. People in Shoreline support the schools. You ask anyone why they moved to Shoreline - the schools. The thing that really strikes me about the schools here is that it does not appear to be a system of haves and have-nots, like in Seattle. Which brings me to my next point:
Shoreline is diverse: Shoreline schools are doing well while serving a diverse population. I like the diversity of Shoreline. I grew up in Los Angeles so I often find myself giving the side-eye to what some PNWers claim as 'diversity' but Shoreline is really cool that way.
Transit: Right, not a great place to live car-free, but there are definitely options for getting into and out of downtown Seattle via bus. (If you do drive, it is very, very easy to shoot into Seattle on I-5.) Most noteworthy is that Shoreline will have two light rail stations in 2023: NE 145th and NE 185th.
Nice amenities: The community stuff here is pretty nice, lots of it kid-oriented. Excellent libraries (part of KCLS), parks (we have lots of wooded areas! a beach!), sports leagues, outdoor preschool, jazz walk, etc.
The downsides of Shoreline:
Rezone/Point Wells: There are development issues that Shoreline is facing that the government is not handling well. The first issue is what is known locally as the 'radical rezone.' When Sound Transit made the decision to put in light rail stops at 145th and 185th, they recommended that the city rezone some of the areas around the future stations to encourage denser development. Great, makes sense, everyone understands that and supports that. However, the city came up with a rezoning plan with very little input from residents, that changes large areas of Shoreline from single-family housing zone to 6-story mixed use. It's a mess. There isn't a plan to improve the area, they just changed the zoning from one extreme to the other. The second issue is Point Wells. Point Wells is a little blob of land previously used in an industrial capacity north of the Richmond Beach area. RB is in Shoreline (part of King County). Point Wells is in unincorporated Snohomish County, but the only way to access it is through Richmond Beach on a narrow road. Snohomish County approved a private development for 3000 new housing units on the blob. No one told Shoreline. Development hasn't started and probably won't for a long while due to litigation. I have lots of opinions about the Shoreline city government and the upcoming election but my husband just told me I should spend time with him instead of typing.
Sidewalks: Shoreline only became a city 20 years ago - prior to that it was unincorporated King County. Just like north Seattle there aren't enough sidewalks. It's the number 1 issue when Shoreline residents are polled, it's not like we don't want it. It's just unclear how to pay for it.
Hopelessly uncool: It's all young families who are moving here. If you are interested in appearing cool, don't move to Shoreline. It's not even anti-cool. It just is.
posted by stowaway at 9:59 PM on October 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Have you considered Renton? We are looking at buying our next place over there, coming from the Leschi neighborhood, because we want something bigger but still within a short drive of decent stuff. Renton is nice in that it's very family-friendly (good schools, lots of parks and yard space, etc), not too far from the city for commuting purposes but also not too far from Issaquah for good shops like PCC or decent-ish bars/restaurants.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:24 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by joan_holloway at 10:24 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Forgot to mention: Central Market in Shoreline is a fantastic grocery store.
posted by stowaway at 10:48 PM on October 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by stowaway at 10:48 PM on October 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for your very helpful comments. There's a lot to think about and to talk over with my spouse. I think where we are both coming down is that we recognize (on some level, at least) the tradeoffs. We'd lose the walkability of our current neighborhood in exchange for house and lot size and school quality. It's a big decision but I think that's a trade we are willing to make at this point in our lives. I grew up in a very rural area so am pretty ok with a bit less of an urban environment.
Being car-free isn't a big concern, though it is a drawback to have to drive everywhere. Is the Rapid Ride E line a decent way of commuting into downtown?
As for neighborhoods, I've still got a lot to learn there. I'm not really sure where I'm looking, other than wherever zillow shows me 3 bed/2 bath houses for mid-400's or less.
Also, big yes to Central Market. Love that place.
posted by bepe at 9:35 AM on October 13, 2015
Being car-free isn't a big concern, though it is a drawback to have to drive everywhere. Is the Rapid Ride E line a decent way of commuting into downtown?
As for neighborhoods, I've still got a lot to learn there. I'm not really sure where I'm looking, other than wherever zillow shows me 3 bed/2 bath houses for mid-400's or less.
Also, big yes to Central Market. Love that place.
posted by bepe at 9:35 AM on October 13, 2015
I'm back with some links:
Shoreline Area News
Richmond Beach Community News
City's website about the 185th Station
145th Station planning
145th Corridor Study
posted by stowaway at 10:07 AM on October 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Shoreline Area News
Richmond Beach Community News
City's website about the 185th Station
145th Station planning
145th Corridor Study
posted by stowaway at 10:07 AM on October 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, there are walkable neighborhoods in Shoreline. There are neighborhoods with sidewalks. There are neighborhoods with a grocery store, coffee place, drugstore, maybe a restaurant or two, within easy walking distance of residential areas. But these neighborhoods are very modest compared to walkable areas of Seattle where there is a cornucopia of food and entertainment options.
posted by stowaway at 10:13 AM on October 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by stowaway at 10:13 AM on October 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
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For us, we wanted to be in the city. Being just over the line means things like city-funded transit improvements (really important to our one-car-hopefully-someday-no-car household) and a much broader tax base don't apply to Shoreline. Shoreline's property tax rate is a lot higher than Seattle's (1.286% versus 0.927%) and values are already heading up in Shoreline as people make the same decision and Shoreline builds even fewer new units than Seattle.
One phenomenon my friends have described that you might want to watch for is real estate agents pricing houses lower than market to incite a bidding war. A coworker selling his house in Everett did this and wound up selling for about 20% higher than list.
Without knowing where you are in South Seattle, I might duplicate your existing area, but were I looking today I'd be snuggled up anywhere along Link. Columbia City, Hillman City, Mt Baker, Othello...or, go to the north side and look around Northgate and Lake City. By the time your kids are ready for school, better transit (Northgate and NE 130th St stations will be open in 6-8 years) and schools should be a lot more broadly available. My kid is just growing out of public school age but I like the changes I've been seeing at SPS now that parents are pushing back against the dumb decisions made by past administrators. This election and the one following for the SPS school board will make a lot of difference, in my opinion.
Best of luck.
posted by fireoyster at 5:34 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]