It's not paranoia, if they ARE out to get you.
October 8, 2015 3:45 AM Subscribe
I've had an issue throughout my career of helping less senior women in their careers only to have them turn around and try to sabotage me in some fashion. Help me not become paranoid of women.
Throughout my career, I've worked hard to support female workers I supervise, specifically giving them support and training, as well as resume development opportunities, career advice and even advocating strongly for raises/promotions etc. I feel very strongly about supporting women in my field, where they have been historically underrepresented - though now there is quite a surge. Typically they have been really grateful and super responsive at first, and then attempted later to sabotage my career in some surprising and unexpected fashion. This usually involves them making a play for my job either trying to get me taken off of a project I am leading or even trying to get me fired.
I'm not being paranoid - it's very open when this happens and I've gotten outside confirmation that this in fact is happening from unrelated sources. This has happened enough times where I am now finding myself paranoid about supervising female employees. I don't want to be paranoid about supervising female employees - I still feel very strongly about supporting women in my industry, but...how do I not be paranoid as I work to mentor supervisees?
Also, I appreciate that when there is a pattern you have to ask: is it them or me? It could be me...but I'm not sure how...welcome thoughts on this as well.
Throughout my career, I've worked hard to support female workers I supervise, specifically giving them support and training, as well as resume development opportunities, career advice and even advocating strongly for raises/promotions etc. I feel very strongly about supporting women in my field, where they have been historically underrepresented - though now there is quite a surge. Typically they have been really grateful and super responsive at first, and then attempted later to sabotage my career in some surprising and unexpected fashion. This usually involves them making a play for my job either trying to get me taken off of a project I am leading or even trying to get me fired.
I'm not being paranoid - it's very open when this happens and I've gotten outside confirmation that this in fact is happening from unrelated sources. This has happened enough times where I am now finding myself paranoid about supervising female employees. I don't want to be paranoid about supervising female employees - I still feel very strongly about supporting women in my industry, but...how do I not be paranoid as I work to mentor supervisees?
Also, I appreciate that when there is a pattern you have to ask: is it them or me? It could be me...but I'm not sure how...welcome thoughts on this as well.
Well, if it's any consolation, my experience is that men are equally likely to try to do me harm. So if you try to engineer a situation where you're only engaging with male workers, you may end up just as badly hurt.
My suggestion is that apart from that which is part of your job description, don't go above and beyond to advocate for women in particular, simply because you believe (for whatever reason) that women in particular will turn on you and therefore don't deserve the advocacy.
I don't know how this could be resulting from anything you're doing, since I don't have enough information. For what it's worth, I believe that you have been repeatedly undermined by your mentees. But if you're looking for an answer along the lines of "yes, women use relational violence and are just like that," you won't get it from me.
posted by tel3path at 4:11 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
My suggestion is that apart from that which is part of your job description, don't go above and beyond to advocate for women in particular, simply because you believe (for whatever reason) that women in particular will turn on you and therefore don't deserve the advocacy.
I don't know how this could be resulting from anything you're doing, since I don't have enough information. For what it's worth, I believe that you have been repeatedly undermined by your mentees. But if you're looking for an answer along the lines of "yes, women use relational violence and are just like that," you won't get it from me.
posted by tel3path at 4:11 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
This usually involves them... trying to get me taken off of a project I am leading or even trying to get me fired.
Can you discern a pattern in the reasons they've expressed for doing this?
posted by jon1270 at 4:33 AM on October 8, 2015
Can you discern a pattern in the reasons they've expressed for doing this?
posted by jon1270 at 4:33 AM on October 8, 2015
Response by poster: jon1270 - to answer your question, it's always been in an attempt to get my job.
posted by Toddles at 4:37 AM on October 8, 2015
posted by Toddles at 4:37 AM on October 8, 2015
Typically they have been really grateful and super responsive at first, and then attempted later to sabotage my career in some surprising and unexpected fashion. This usually involves them making a play for my job either trying to get me taken off of a project I am leading or even trying to get me fired.
You say "them" but the common denominator of course is you. Work is a competitive environment. Whenever I felt someone was trying to do me in, it was generally because I wasn't working hard enough and I probably deserved it.
posted by three blind mice at 5:31 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
You say "them" but the common denominator of course is you. Work is a competitive environment. Whenever I felt someone was trying to do me in, it was generally because I wasn't working hard enough and I probably deserved it.
posted by three blind mice at 5:31 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I agree with tel3path; women do not have a monopoly on relational aggression and treacherous behavior. Men are every bit as capable of this type of behavior. You probably notice it because you have been mentoring women exclusively, but I don't think that continuing to do the same thing, only switching to mentoring men, will make that much of a difference.
Take a look at you, your company, and your field of work. Does this undermining, backstabbing, and treachery happen to others at your level or just to you? If it's just you, that's something to take a look at - are you picking charismatic sociopaths to mentor, perhaps? Or it might be something not your fault at all - you are of a race or ethnic group that is different from the majority in your office/field, you have a disability, or you otherwise stand out in a way that might make you vulnerable. Since I do not know if you are doing something to attract untrustworthy proteges, I can't offer specific advice - just maybe take a look at yourself if you seem to be the only person this is happening to.
What about your field? Is it a very crowded, competitive, anything-to-get-ahead type of career? Is "The Devil Wears Prada" more like a documentary than a fiction film when it comes to working environments in the career field you have chosen? Some fields are cut-throat and backstabby due to insane competition for jobs, or the rewards being disproportionately concentrated at the top, or both. If this is true for your field, you might want to evaluate whether you want to continue, or how you can stay in your field but not have to deal with the politics.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:33 AM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Take a look at you, your company, and your field of work. Does this undermining, backstabbing, and treachery happen to others at your level or just to you? If it's just you, that's something to take a look at - are you picking charismatic sociopaths to mentor, perhaps? Or it might be something not your fault at all - you are of a race or ethnic group that is different from the majority in your office/field, you have a disability, or you otherwise stand out in a way that might make you vulnerable. Since I do not know if you are doing something to attract untrustworthy proteges, I can't offer specific advice - just maybe take a look at yourself if you seem to be the only person this is happening to.
What about your field? Is it a very crowded, competitive, anything-to-get-ahead type of career? Is "The Devil Wears Prada" more like a documentary than a fiction film when it comes to working environments in the career field you have chosen? Some fields are cut-throat and backstabby due to insane competition for jobs, or the rewards being disproportionately concentrated at the top, or both. If this is true for your field, you might want to evaluate whether you want to continue, or how you can stay in your field but not have to deal with the politics.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:33 AM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Typically they have been really grateful and super responsive at first, and then attempted later to sabotage my career in some surprising and unexpected fashion. This usually involves them making a play for my job either trying to get me taken off of a project I am leading or even trying to get me fired.
A pattern I have seen more than a few times are some managers who focus strongly on young female employees. Not in an overtly sexual way (which is something you also see), more in a paternal way. Some of the young women respond really well to this and it becomes a two-way street. But it is a time-limited dynamic, because for the woman to advance professionally she needs to not be publicly associated with a parent/daughter workplace dynamic and because she eventually figures out that the superior, perhaps unknowingly, relies on her staying a subordinate for this relationship to work.
So of course the easiest way to establish independence, an assertive identity, and to publicly disassociate from a relationship that makes other people jealous (because they don't have access to it), is to make a direct play for your position. I think you might want to consider how these mentoring relationships look from the outside, how you are selecting who gets invited to be part of it, and how they might be limiting as well as beneficial for the women involved.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:45 AM on October 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
A pattern I have seen more than a few times are some managers who focus strongly on young female employees. Not in an overtly sexual way (which is something you also see), more in a paternal way. Some of the young women respond really well to this and it becomes a two-way street. But it is a time-limited dynamic, because for the woman to advance professionally she needs to not be publicly associated with a parent/daughter workplace dynamic and because she eventually figures out that the superior, perhaps unknowingly, relies on her staying a subordinate for this relationship to work.
So of course the easiest way to establish independence, an assertive identity, and to publicly disassociate from a relationship that makes other people jealous (because they don't have access to it), is to make a direct play for your position. I think you might want to consider how these mentoring relationships look from the outside, how you are selecting who gets invited to be part of it, and how they might be limiting as well as beneficial for the women involved.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:45 AM on October 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
Hm. My guess would be that you identify women in the workplace who appear talented, ambitious, and charismatic, and you decide that you want to mentor them in part because women need that kind of mentoring in the workplace and in part because you might like the idea of sharing credit for their success. The problem is that the people you are drawn to are the kind of people who will crawl over anyone and any thing to get ahead, and you strike them as vulnerable and weak because you don't project an aura of ruthlessness that they would respect. I also guess you work in an industry where the only way to advance is if the person ahead of you retires -- i.e., that there is not much growth.
So you've zeroed in on a particular strain of charming, ambitious young employees, and they realize that the only way to get ahead is to get you out of the way.
Much of what I am writing is just speculation. But you might want to be a little bit more mercenary in your decisions to mentor someone-- specifically, help a junior employee if doing so is advantageous to you. Don't give her enough of an independent power base that she can outmaneuver you to get ahead.
My guess is that you aren't Machiavellian enough to pull this off. I certainly am not. As an alternative, you might want to get involved with industry interest groups outside your workplace and work with women just starting out in the industry there, so that there is less of a conflict of interest.
posted by deanc at 5:50 AM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
So you've zeroed in on a particular strain of charming, ambitious young employees, and they realize that the only way to get ahead is to get you out of the way.
Much of what I am writing is just speculation. But you might want to be a little bit more mercenary in your decisions to mentor someone-- specifically, help a junior employee if doing so is advantageous to you. Don't give her enough of an independent power base that she can outmaneuver you to get ahead.
My guess is that you aren't Machiavellian enough to pull this off. I certainly am not. As an alternative, you might want to get involved with industry interest groups outside your workplace and work with women just starting out in the industry there, so that there is less of a conflict of interest.
posted by deanc at 5:50 AM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
jon1270 - to answer your question, it's always been in an attempt to get my job
Yes, I saw where you said that in the original question. What I meant to ask was, how do they make their cases for this? Do they say, "I should have this job instead of Toddles because X?" Or perhaps, "Toddles should be fired because of Y!" I'm assuming there's more to it than just "I want Toddles's job."
posted by jon1270 at 6:03 AM on October 8, 2015
Yes, I saw where you said that in the original question. What I meant to ask was, how do they make their cases for this? Do they say, "I should have this job instead of Toddles because X?" Or perhaps, "Toddles should be fired because of Y!" I'm assuming there's more to it than just "I want Toddles's job."
posted by jon1270 at 6:03 AM on October 8, 2015
Best answer: A lot of your AskMe questions seem to be about how you're confused about some interpersonal dynamic (not just with women) at your workplace, which would lead me to believe that either your workplace is (as others are pointing out as a possibility) extremely cutthroat, or that you have difficulties reading other people's emotions, intentions, and desires. Or both, I guess. Do you have a mentor? I suspect it would help you if you had an in-person consultation with someone with experience in your field about these things.
posted by jaguar at 6:29 AM on October 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 6:29 AM on October 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Or, that your workplace organizational structure is really dysfunctional and "your job" is "all the fulfilling/fun/respect-worthy stuff in the workplace" and everyone else is stuck with scut work.
posted by jaguar at 6:31 AM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 6:31 AM on October 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Two questions to consider:
1. How effective are you in your job?
2. What reasons do they have to feel they can do your job better than you?
This is a human development opportunity for you to learn what you are apparently failing to provide already. Your job is obviously so secure that you are able to write this under a username. But how many reasoned approaches from other employees will your managers defend you from after this?
posted by parmanparman at 6:35 AM on October 8, 2015
1. How effective are you in your job?
2. What reasons do they have to feel they can do your job better than you?
This is a human development opportunity for you to learn what you are apparently failing to provide already. Your job is obviously so secure that you are able to write this under a username. But how many reasoned approaches from other employees will your managers defend you from after this?
posted by parmanparman at 6:35 AM on October 8, 2015
I'm another vote for "it's probably your workplace." If your workplace (either your specific workplace or your field) is a hostile place for women (or just people in general), you're going to get this kind of behavior.
It could also be you, i.e. that the people you are identifying as being worthy of mentoring OR the people who respond to your particular brand of mentoring are cutthroat people.
But I feel pretty confident saying it's not just about "women."
posted by mskyle at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2015
It could also be you, i.e. that the people you are identifying as being worthy of mentoring OR the people who respond to your particular brand of mentoring are cutthroat people.
But I feel pretty confident saying it's not just about "women."
posted by mskyle at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2015
Best answer: Are there opportunities for advancement for these women where you work, if they don't take (or try to take) your job? I wonder if they're stuck and chafing against that.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:38 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by J. Wilson at 6:38 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is no story more classic than the cold-heartedness of ungrateful protegees. It's most of the best of the Shakespeare!
You should devote significant energy to developing talent if your workplace rewards you for doing so as a core job responsibility. It's a thrill for me when I see that I have been a good mentor and ally for somebody, and a disappointment when I haven't been able to do so, but the key thing is that building up good talent is a big part of every job I've had. And none of these people would have ever played for my job in a predatory way because that's just not done.
If your workplace frankly doesn't value your mentoring and appears to facilitate people moving against you who you once helped, than you really are building up competition to yourself with no offsetting compensation ... joining Lear and Falstaff out in the cold, if you will.
posted by MattD at 6:45 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
You should devote significant energy to developing talent if your workplace rewards you for doing so as a core job responsibility. It's a thrill for me when I see that I have been a good mentor and ally for somebody, and a disappointment when I haven't been able to do so, but the key thing is that building up good talent is a big part of every job I've had. And none of these people would have ever played for my job in a predatory way because that's just not done.
If your workplace frankly doesn't value your mentoring and appears to facilitate people moving against you who you once helped, than you really are building up competition to yourself with no offsetting compensation ... joining Lear and Falstaff out in the cold, if you will.
posted by MattD at 6:45 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Or put another way, is your job better than theirs, combined with there aren't other jobs or advancement opportunities available for these women that are also better than theirs in a similar way?
Are there employees that you don't mentor who also try to make a play for your job?
This could be entirely a workplace structure thing, but you haven't given us enough information to say.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Are there employees that you don't mentor who also try to make a play for your job?
This could be entirely a workplace structure thing, but you haven't given us enough information to say.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I looked back at a few of your previous questions and I see that you work as a director at a non-profit - I'm going to make some surmises: There are a lot of bright, ambitious people doing grunt work for peanuts in order to get a foot in the door. A director's job represents a considerable leap up the salary ladder, as well as much greater opportunities for fulfilling work. There are more people qualified for your (or similar) position than there are positions of this type open. This adds up to a ton of bright, ambitious, qualified people desperate to earn more money and do more satisfying work, as opposed to scut work and paper pushing. So your protegees go after your job, because what other opportunities are there, and if you have to throw your mentor under the bus, you gotta do what you gotta do to get ahead, right? (Jwilson, above, summed this up quite nicely)
Obviously not all nonprofits operate like this, but it's common enough that a director's job is a huge plum in terms of salary and job quality. And thus there is fierce competition for director and other high-ranking jobs. If this is true for your workplace, you can accept this and just be careful and self-protective in who you mentor - deanc's suggestion of mentoring people outside your workplace through industry interest groups is a great one - or you can start searching for a less cutthroat work environment.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:15 AM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Obviously not all nonprofits operate like this, but it's common enough that a director's job is a huge plum in terms of salary and job quality. And thus there is fierce competition for director and other high-ranking jobs. If this is true for your workplace, you can accept this and just be careful and self-protective in who you mentor - deanc's suggestion of mentoring people outside your workplace through industry interest groups is a great one - or you can start searching for a less cutthroat work environment.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:15 AM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
I've had this happen with women more than a few times in my career and social life, but then it's also happened with men as well. My former boss basically sabotaged me from the get go once she realized I wasn't going to be her protege, going so far as denying me resources and professional development opportunities that would see me advance my skills if they didn't suit her vision. She did it to a few other women in the department as well. Luckily she retired before she could really get to me, but her impact really screwed me over for a few years.
This is what happens when there are more people than there are resources/jobs. People become cut-throat and vicious and paranoid.
posted by Young Kullervo at 7:21 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is what happens when there are more people than there are resources/jobs. People become cut-throat and vicious and paranoid.
posted by Young Kullervo at 7:21 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you KNOW intellectually that it's not just women, but you can't quite convince yourself. Do you mentor men too, or primarily women? If you don't mentor men, or not as much or not as intensely, that could be why you're only noticing women backstabbing you.
posted by sillysally at 7:35 AM on October 8, 2015
posted by sillysally at 7:35 AM on October 8, 2015
There is a lot of great advice and perspective above (I would also generally agree that this is likely not about the sex of the mentee).
You might want to think about the nature of your mentorship. There are a lot of ways that you can bond/help/advise/support these folks outside of going to bat for them regarding rank/salary/advantageous-project-assignments... I would even posit that these kinds of things are likely to give unearned confidence to the mentee in question (particularly if they don't know that you are the reason they are getting all of these advantages). If everything they touch turns to gold, they get put on all the highest-profile projects, and they get the biggest raises and bonuses every time these things come up, they may truly believe that they are ready for your job.
Consider a shift in that tack:
-Bring them to relevant industry/topical/community events as your mentee (so they earn awareness of the space but through the window of your help)
-Be the avenue of their ambition. Build a relationship deep enough that they come to you when they feel like they are ready for more. Aim that ambition externally. "I know a number of organizations that would love to have someone as driven as you, would you like me to make some introductions?"
-Suggest that they provide support and mini-mentorship for someone below them on the totem-pole and have them report back about what they are doing to support them. Casually say "watch out, some people take the encouragement and support to heart and get competitive about it!".
-Real leaders make the org better through the support and advocacy of their org. If you teach that principle, you train the budding leader to demonstrate their leadership by focusing their energy down instead of up...
-Lastly, if this is something you do, and something you are good at, and something you want to continue doing, and something that is demonstrably good for the business (and if this is viable given the scale/resources)... Talk to the org's leadership about moving to a role where this is the central part of your contribution. This pulls you out of the cutthroat rat race and still allows you to make a large impact.
posted by milqman at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
You might want to think about the nature of your mentorship. There are a lot of ways that you can bond/help/advise/support these folks outside of going to bat for them regarding rank/salary/advantageous-project-assignments... I would even posit that these kinds of things are likely to give unearned confidence to the mentee in question (particularly if they don't know that you are the reason they are getting all of these advantages). If everything they touch turns to gold, they get put on all the highest-profile projects, and they get the biggest raises and bonuses every time these things come up, they may truly believe that they are ready for your job.
Consider a shift in that tack:
-Bring them to relevant industry/topical/community events as your mentee (so they earn awareness of the space but through the window of your help)
-Be the avenue of their ambition. Build a relationship deep enough that they come to you when they feel like they are ready for more. Aim that ambition externally. "I know a number of organizations that would love to have someone as driven as you, would you like me to make some introductions?"
-Suggest that they provide support and mini-mentorship for someone below them on the totem-pole and have them report back about what they are doing to support them. Casually say "watch out, some people take the encouragement and support to heart and get competitive about it!".
-Real leaders make the org better through the support and advocacy of their org. If you teach that principle, you train the budding leader to demonstrate their leadership by focusing their energy down instead of up...
-Lastly, if this is something you do, and something you are good at, and something you want to continue doing, and something that is demonstrably good for the business (and if this is viable given the scale/resources)... Talk to the org's leadership about moving to a role where this is the central part of your contribution. This pulls you out of the cutthroat rat race and still allows you to make a large impact.
posted by milqman at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm struck by the fact that you are in a pattern of both mentoring, but then being blindsided by your mentees' ambition. Professional mentoring should include honest discussions and plans about career ambitions. It sounds like these women you have mentored want to find a way to get into a position like the one you are in. Are you providing them with a path to do so? I have been both a manager and mentor to individuals where I had to confront the "this town won't be big enough for the both of us" dynamic. Sometimes I've had to up my own game. Sometimes I've had to let them know that there was only so far I could see them advancing and that if they wanted more I would help them when the time came. And, in at least one notable case I had to step aside and let her have a project I would have really liked to have managed.
Consider whether it isn't only the individuals you are selecting for mentoring, but also your style for doing so that is leading to this.
posted by meinvt at 7:50 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Consider whether it isn't only the individuals you are selecting for mentoring, but also your style for doing so that is leading to this.
posted by meinvt at 7:50 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds to me like your job is the only rung up that they can see for themselves, and that this is less about sabotaging you than about wanting career advancement. It might be useful to educate them on other orgs out there and make sure they know that you support their growth into more advanced roles OUTSIDE of your org?
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:51 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:51 AM on October 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Looking through your history, I see that you are at a science non profit. And, honestly, these jobs are basically a low paid dead end for most entry level people unless they are able to move to another, larger, better paid organization or they displace the higher level staffers where they are.
If you have enough pull to reorganize the system, change the employment path for junior level employees into an "fellowship" model, like a postdoctoral fellowship: make it clear that the job is only for 2-4 years, there's little chance of moving upwards, and the expectation is that you will move on to a new position after their "fellowship" is over, with more experience and your mentoring under their belt.
If you structure the junior level jobs this way, the expectations will be clear and there will be much less of a temptation to push you out of the way because they won't go into the job with the expectation of finding a way to move up.
As it is, your entry level employees have three options:
1) remain in low paid, busy but essentially unchallenging, poorly respected work
2) leave to find a better job at a similar organization (and how many are there in your area?)
3) push obstacles on their path upwards (i.e., you) out of the way
Given these options, what do you think the people with lots of potential and energy whom you are drawn to as "mentees" going to do?
There are certain people who will do "whatever it takes" to get ahead. In your organization, there is no way to get ahead except by maneuvering more senior employees out of the way. So when you hire and then mentor someone whose personality is the kind that will do "whatever it takes," that is what they will do.
posted by deanc at 7:59 AM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
If you have enough pull to reorganize the system, change the employment path for junior level employees into an "fellowship" model, like a postdoctoral fellowship: make it clear that the job is only for 2-4 years, there's little chance of moving upwards, and the expectation is that you will move on to a new position after their "fellowship" is over, with more experience and your mentoring under their belt.
If you structure the junior level jobs this way, the expectations will be clear and there will be much less of a temptation to push you out of the way because they won't go into the job with the expectation of finding a way to move up.
As it is, your entry level employees have three options:
1) remain in low paid, busy but essentially unchallenging, poorly respected work
2) leave to find a better job at a similar organization (and how many are there in your area?)
3) push obstacles on their path upwards (i.e., you) out of the way
Given these options, what do you think the people with lots of potential and energy whom you are drawn to as "mentees" going to do?
There are certain people who will do "whatever it takes" to get ahead. In your organization, there is no way to get ahead except by maneuvering more senior employees out of the way. So when you hire and then mentor someone whose personality is the kind that will do "whatever it takes," that is what they will do.
posted by deanc at 7:59 AM on October 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
2nd that it's probably selection bias + the stiff competition for jobs/advancement.
What about nurturing the development of less obviously hungry employees? (E.g., those who struggle with public speaking, believe that working hard is enough, hide their light under a bushel, etc. They're probably in greater need of support.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:30 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
What about nurturing the development of less obviously hungry employees? (E.g., those who struggle with public speaking, believe that working hard is enough, hide their light under a bushel, etc. They're probably in greater need of support.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:30 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know a number of talented and hard-working people who do high-quality work, but are overlooked for opportunities because they're quiet, or just aren't very good at making a case for themselves (or don't believe or even understand that they sort of have to).
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:58 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:58 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I have been a mentor to a number of younger employees over the years, although as a man my experiences may differ from yours. I found that while my career was ascendant, many of them were inclined to try to be brought along with me and when I was more stagnant they were naturally focused on other opportunities. In a smaller shop, the only suitable opportunity might be my job. I echo the comments who say that this is not particularly unique to women -- in fact, the most ruthlessly competitive of my mentees have been male.
As a female executive in a non-profit where women are generally underrepresented, they may very logically feel that your position is one of the few where they have a genuine shot of success.
If you have the connections within your industry to do so, the obvious alternative for you is to help your proteges to move into positions comparable to yours in other shops. I've been able to help a number of folks to move on to roles similar to mine at other offices (some of whom have eventually eclipsed my own accomplishments), which provides them a career path without having to take my job. The other thing to consider is to ensure that your bosses and subordinates imagine you to be the ideal person for your job, which tends to discourage Machiavellian sabotage.
posted by Lame_username at 12:06 PM on October 8, 2015
As a female executive in a non-profit where women are generally underrepresented, they may very logically feel that your position is one of the few where they have a genuine shot of success.
If you have the connections within your industry to do so, the obvious alternative for you is to help your proteges to move into positions comparable to yours in other shops. I've been able to help a number of folks to move on to roles similar to mine at other offices (some of whom have eventually eclipsed my own accomplishments), which provides them a career path without having to take my job. The other thing to consider is to ensure that your bosses and subordinates imagine you to be the ideal person for your job, which tends to discourage Machiavellian sabotage.
posted by Lame_username at 12:06 PM on October 8, 2015
Best answer: I'm not an aggressive person, I'm a team player, I'm nice. And female. People who are aggressive and more self-interested take advantage if you're too nice. Be a little bit more fierce. Help people grow and develop, but don't overlook their flaws, don't be too nurturing and don't be self-deprecating. You may be in a very female environment, but I think this happens with male and female mentees; it has definitely happened to me, and it really sucks.
posted by theora55 at 12:19 PM on October 8, 2015
posted by theora55 at 12:19 PM on October 8, 2015
I (a young woman) have a female boss who would totally claim that she is mentoring me, training me, giving me feedback etc. Due to the organizational structure,I can't ever gun for her job, but if someone higher up ever asked me what I think about her, it would not be positive because she is abusive, mean and arbitrary, as well as inappropriate. (She asked me if I was pregnant once!) If she found out what I actually think about her, I imagine she would blame it on me being a back-stabbing young woman, too.
I'm sure you are lovely. But are you sure that you come across as a competent, fair and reliable mentor to your mentees?
posted by LoonyLovegood at 5:54 AM on October 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm sure you are lovely. But are you sure that you come across as a competent, fair and reliable mentor to your mentees?
posted by LoonyLovegood at 5:54 AM on October 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Human beings tend to repeat patterns, and individuals tend to gravitate toward certain personality types. This is true irrespective of gender. In other words, maybe the issue is less that you are mentoring women, but that you are seeking out (consciously or not) a certain type of person. And that personality type is inclined toward this, let's call it, stab-you-in-the-back behavior, which you are therefore repeatedly experiencing. Consider that your workplaces may have been equally filled with less senior men who would have exhibited this same behavior; it just happens that you deliberately gravitated toward the women within that personality set, because of your feelings about supporting women in your industry.
If you accept that, then you land on the question of how to break cycles of specific social interactions with specific personality types. That's a pretty common question, and a difficult one, and there's plenty of literature on it and plenty of people who can share anecdotes. I would suggest that might be a more useful tack for you than focusing on gender. You already understand how and why you're self-selecting toward gender in these interactions. Figure out the rest of the equation.
posted by cribcage at 4:10 AM on October 8, 2015 [20 favorites]