Stronglifts 5x5 workout program questions/comments

October 5, 2015 12:39 PM

Hello Guys, I started working on 5x5 program. I did 3x5 and other split workouts in the past and did see some results, but I feel like I reached the plateau. I just want to give this a try and see if it works for me in 12 weeeks. As suggested by Mehdi, I plan on adding 5 lbs to each workout except dead lift it is 10 lb as the program needs only 1 set of of 5 reps for dead lifts. What do you guys think about this program in general?

Today's workout took 40 minutes (Monday 10/5) I am starting with medium weights with a window to improve my form and getting comfortable with program as there will more room for hitting heavy and not reaching plateau as mentioned.

Would it be OK to do some other exercises on rest days such as biceps, triceps and abs? Or simply take rest to recover the compound muscle groups? Or yoga at least as I have free yoga class on Tuesday and Thursday.

Shoes:
I currently have Nike free 3.0 shoes that I use for training and I want to buy Power lift 2.0 from Addidas in order to better my squatting and dead lifting as they provide more stability. Comments on these shoes or any other ones is greatly appreciated.

My program:
Monday - Workout A
Squat 115 5x5
Bench Press 115 5x5
Barbell Row 95 5x5
Wednesday - Workout B
Squat 120 5x5
Oh Press 95 5x5
Dead lift 95 1x5
Friday - Workout A
Squat 125 5x5
Bench Press 120 5x5
Barbell Row 100 5x5
Monday - Workout B
Squat 130 5x5
Oh Press 100 5x5
Dead lift 115 1x5
Tuesday/Thursday/Sat/Sunday rest days...

posted by samcivic to Health & Fitness (20 answers total)

Response by poster: @hal_c_on So, just to be clear, you are saying NO to working out on rest days and want me to stick to program? Thank you.
posted by samcivic at 12:47 PM on October 5, 2015

I have no particular insight into this question in particular, but I will say that /r/Fitness on Reddit is usually pretty helpful with questions like this, I know there's always people talking 5x5 on there.
posted by zempf at 12:52 PM on October 5, 2015

Best answer: Stronglifts (SL) is the broscience version of Starting Strength (SS). The latter explains in tedious detail why the program works the way it does; the former has a bunch of handwaving as to why it's superior to SS. SL will get you some great results, but when you plateau, SS will explain why and what to do next. Google "starting strength wikia" to unlock the magic.

That's not to say that SL doesn't work. It does, it's functionally very very similar to SS, and if you like how the program's laid out, go for it, it is definitely not a waste of your workout time.

Arm and ab work is auxiliary to the main lifts. Press and rows give you arm work, squat and deadlift gives you more than enough ab work. Doing curls and crunches on your days off is counterproductive, as you don't get anywhere near the same amount of homeostatic disruption, and it interferes with the recovery processes which are what will make you stronger. Follow the program unless you know how and why the program works.

Shoes should have a firm sole, that's about it. Converse All-Stars/Chuck Taylor is a common recommendation I've seen.
posted by disconnect at 12:59 PM on October 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

I have the Adidas Powerlift shoes but they are a little clown-shoe-like and if I am doing anything other than the Big 3 the shoes are kind of goofy. They are stiff and clunky.
I'm not the most stable person so I prefer thin soled shoes or often just socks. I'd go barefoot but my gym is too gross for that.
If you are going to compete I think the Powerlifts are good but if you are moving at all they are awkward.
posted by littlewater at 1:19 PM on October 5, 2015

Seconding the Converse suggestion; fancy shoes are nice, but completely unnecessary at this point. Also, I tend to think most people should work on their mobility rather than putting plates under their heels or getting lifting shoes. If you can't drop to or slightly below parallel in an air squat and hang out there for a while, you should work on that before you do anything else. Vibrams are also great shoes for lifting, but I get that lots of people don't like the toe-shoe look.

As for the program, what are your goals and where are you currently? SS/SL are great programs for beginners who are prioritizing strength over appearance. If that sounds like you, stick with the program. Your mention of arms and abs suggest that you care at least somewhat about aesthetics. If you mostly want to focus on strength, but you wouldn't mind bigger biceps and a 6 pack, throw a few high volume curl sets on the end of your workouts, keep your protein intake high and your overall calories and carbs low, and be prepared for fairly frequent plateaus. You will not get enough work from rows and presses to get what you see in your head when you think about big arms. If you actually just want to look good and don't really care about moving the most weight in the competition lifts, look at a higher volume PPL split or something similar and start really paying attention to your diet. There's nothing wrong with lifting to look good, life is short, lift in a way that makes you happy.
posted by protocoach at 1:22 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

When I lift I wear Vans shoes with flat soles like this, which I guess are functionally similar to Converse. I found that wearing trainers made the heels of my feet higher than they needed to be (I guess because they are meant to provide more cushioning in the heel for running?) and that this negatively affected my form.
posted by radiocontrolled at 1:25 PM on October 5, 2015

Response by poster: @protocoach: Thanks for the reply, My goal is to gain muscles and look good. I am not competing. I am currently 145 lb. Around 16% Body fat.

Thanks for shoe recommendations guys, I always wanted to work in socks but I don't want to end up looking like weirdo at gym although I have seen few people working in socks. My gym is clean, One of these nights, I will try squatting barefoot before spending hundred dollars on Power lift 2.0
posted by samcivic at 1:39 PM on October 5, 2015

I wear Merrell barefoot-style shoes to lift in - they're nice and flat but lack the conspicuous toesies. (I've worn Fivefingers too and like them fine, but in general find they disintegrate too fast to be worth the money.)

I also really really like the 5-3-1 lifting plan, and have found by comparing myself to friends on Stronglifts that I do *way* better on upper body exercises than they do, but there's nothing wrong with Stronglifts (or SS) as a decent starting point.
posted by restless_nomad at 1:43 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

Nothing wrong with doing yoga on your rest days, it won't hurt your gains or your progression. If you notice it is, then cut back.

Also seconding PPL (specifically PPLx2, which is a three day split repeated twice a week) if your goal is aesthetics. Stick with SL or SS for a while, though, at least until your lifts stall and you have to deload a couple of times. That could take anywhere between 6-12 months or possibly longer. You might actually find yourself transitioning to a SS-like program before you plateau since there's a point where 5x5 is just too much volume to sustain a linear progression.
posted by un petit cadeau at 1:43 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'd say do the yoga. It's good for your muscles. I lift in Merrells, I used to lift in Vibrams. Anything without much cushion is good. You need stability without arch support.
posted by domo at 2:20 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

I did 5x5 in old Airwalks until I plateaued, then moved on to 5-3-1 and Vibram FiveFingers.

Stronglifts (at least the 2009-ish version) was a great blitz to help get my workout partner and I strong, and used to barbell training.
I found 5-3-1 to be a natural follow-on. It's a lot more flexible, which suited me after I was confident in my form on the big lifts. The broscience factor is definitely there in Wendler's writing, but the basic core of the escalating four-week cycles has been great for me.

Starting Strength is the root of pretty much everything you see about barbell training, as mentioned above...if you have a partner, or a sociable gym, get someone to video your form, and compare yourself to Rippetoe's videos.
posted by Kreiger at 2:21 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

Nothing wrong with Stronglifts, I've used it myself on and off for a few years. Be aware that - and I don't really care what he says - that Mehdi's idea of seemingly infinite steady progression is nonsense, and in my opinion is that fast track for injury through poor form as you struggle to lift weights you're simply not ready for. Adding 2.5kg every workout is simply not sustainable for most people over the course of several months. Be prepared to slow that progression down (that whole "your body will stop adding muscle!" thing is wildly over-rated and misunderstood, if you are straining to lift, you will still be adding muscle, and also there is a finite amount of muscle you can add).

I, personally, add new weights to my lifts when I am no longer struggling with previous lifts and feel like my form is solid. Sometimes that's once a week, sometimes it's like once a month. I'm not in a race or competition, so I don't really care. I realise this is sacrilegious.

Also, be prepared to hit the ceiling at different rates due to prior strength, body mechanics, etc etc. For me, I tend to hit the ceiling first on my shoulder press, then on my rows, and then then bench, squats etc. Generally you will hit the ceiling with smaller muscle groups first.

Throw in extra work if you want, but I wouldn't do it on rest day, I would try to incorporate it on workout days. Mehdi suggests dips, chin ups and planks, which I would say is going to be better than any isolation exercises you're considering.

I find the stronglifts app on my phone good for keeping on track with sets/rest times etc. It's free. Best of luck!
posted by smoke at 3:29 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

Have you been doing mostly arm work previously? I am just curious that you plan to occasionally squat 130, but your highest deadlift you write out is 115. If you can squat 130 (correctly) then you should be able to deadlift more than 115.

I'm like smoke in that I don't see my strength training as a competition against others and don't worry about adding some arbitrary amount to my totals each week. I have been learning to lift for about 1.5 years and in the last 4 months have finally been able to go consistently due to my daughter starting all-day school. I have in the past used a SS-style program, Wendler style programs and "the cube." My wife is much more experienced with lifting than me, so she creates my programs. Currently, we are both trying "Average to Savage."

Anyway, here are my data points (to show why your deadlift number jumped out at me): I am 40 years old. Average height and 165 pounds. My calculated 1RMs currently are : Bench 137.5, Squat 160, Overhead Press 80 and Deadlift 240.

Don't overdo strength training and don't lift it if you can't lift it. It just seems like with your other strength numbers that you might have the capacity to deadlift more.

Good luck!
posted by Slothrop at 5:09 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Learn what good form is. Read Starting Strength and check out videos.

Having a lifting buddy is the best thing ever. If you can't get one, occasionally ask someone else at the gym to watch and critique your form - even if you have to tell them what to look for.

I like being barefoot - feels most stable - but sometimes lift in socks or Vibrams. No one is looking at your feet.

I am starting with medium weights with a window to improve my form

Great. This will also help build your patience, which will come in handy when you plateau.

Occasionally check out what kind of animal you're lifting.
posted by orangejenny at 5:31 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

First, make sure you've done your due diligence on stalling. If you've stopped making progress with multiple lifts make sure that you're getting:
-Plenty of sleep
-Plenty of protein
-Plenty of rest
-Make sure that you've tried to "reset" the lifts that are stalling

If all that has failed, I would next try just increasing my volume. Take your 3x5 program and add two sets to each to make it a 5x5 program.

Do not strength train on days outside of your program. You don't build muscles in the gym, you build them in bed. Rest is the KEY to getting stronger, you must REST on your REST DAYS.

If you want bigger biceps, do pull-ups (palms facing you), it works the biceps but also the back and some of the core muscles. It's still pretty much about vanity but it's at least a compound movement and isn't totally worthless. Bicep curls pretty much just look cool on TV or in movies in the background. But if, like me, you still want big arms, do pull ups instead.

Lastly, don't worry so much about the specific program. All programs work, some work better for others and worse for others. The basics are what you want to stay focused on. Compound lifts, big weights, lower reps. Everything else is just figuring out the specific movements, reps, and sets that are optimal for YOU specifically. Even then, most programs will be 98% effective, the differences between them account for that last 2% and you're not really going to notice it.

Just change things a little bit at a time (change to 5x5 instead of 3x5), if those changes work, stick with them. If they don't try something else maybe go to 3x7, maybe 4x6, change which exercises you do on which days, add a lift specific to your goals, start try yoga or some stretching program on off days.

Oh, and if you're not already doing some sort of flexibility/mobility program, start one. Not only do you need to maintain range of motion but the stretching allows the sheaths around your muscles to expand more which allows the muscles to grow faster. In other words, adding flexibility can help to add strength.

Lastly, I'm not really one for supplements but creatine is totally effective, cheap, and safe. It's the one supplement, the affect I notice the most is that I'm FAR less sore the day after I lift then when I don't take it.
posted by VTX at 7:21 AM on October 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: @vtx "Oh, and if you're not already doing some sort of flexibility/mobility program, start one. Not only do you need to maintain range of motion but the stretching allows the sheaths around your muscles to expand more which allows the muscles to grow faster. In other words, adding flexibility can help to add strength. "

I do Boot camp / Rock Bottom/Spin classes time to time. I stopped them after after I started the program but I am tempted to do them on my rest days. Should I resist the temptation and relax on rest days or do some mobility programs like boot camp?

Thanks everyone for the comments.
posted by samcivic at 2:35 PM on October 6, 2015

Not anything that intense, you certainly could and I don't think it would hurt. It might slow down your progress a bit but should be better in terms of overall fitness. Strength training does add endurance and increases cardiovascular performance but nowhere near as much the things you mention will.

I'm thinking more like a 10-20 minute yoga routine or the DeFranco Agile 8 or Limber 11

As far as rest goes, don't think of it as resting, think of it as "building muscle though inactivity". As long as you're not loading your muscles in the same way as when you lift, it probably won't hurt much if at all. Doing some push-ups (I'm assuming you do a fair amount of them in boot camp) the day after you do the bench press won't hurt and will probably help with soreness. But going to far will increase your recovery time. That said, recover can be trained and will improve just like everything else so it will take some experimentation to figure out how hard you can push on off-days and still maintain progress. It will be specific to you and it will change.
posted by VTX at 10:07 AM on October 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

But, I have different goals and the only regular exercise I get that isn't related to lifting (I consider the stretching to be part of the lifting program) is walking my dog. I don't do any cardio, lighter resistance training, endurance, stuff so there are probably other people in the thread who can talk more intelligently about doing Boot camp / Rock Bottom/Spin classes while still maintaining progress with your strength training.
posted by VTX at 10:15 AM on October 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Thanks VTX, I remember when I started doing 5 3 1 lifting and classes at same time, was very difficult. I think what you said makes more sense now. I will continue with my classes now on my rest days. Thank you.
posted by samcivic at 2:35 PM on October 7, 2015

Would it be OK to do some other exercises on rest days such as biceps, triceps and abs? Or simply take rest to recover the compound muscle groups? Or yoga at least as I have free yoga class on Tuesday and Thursday.

With the exercises you're doing, you could throw in bicep and ab work and it wouldn't kill you, but I'd call these optional exercises that you do after everything else, and you do them on your regular lifting days. Maybe once a week biceps, and 3x a week abs. That's what I do with a similar lifting schedule to yours, but like others have said, with the whole body exercises you're doing, an ab workout isn't really necessary, and a bicep workout is imo for aesthetics.
posted by zippy at 11:56 PM on November 4, 2015