Where to live in Sydney?
September 26, 2015 12:41 AM Subscribe
My partner and I are moving to Sydney toward the end of this year. It's all very exciting and terrifying, but now we have to work out practical issues. We have kids, we work in different locations (UNSW and Sydney uni), we're pretty well-off, and we like public transport. So where should we be looking to live?
The big things
- Getting around: My partner's job is at Sydney uni, mine is at UNSW: we'd like it if we can both take public transport to work and keep the commute to about an hour each way. Besides getting back and forth from work, we like the idea of being able to get around and do things with public transport. Living near a train station would be really nice from that perspective. We do have a car and would like to keep it because it's so handy with young kids, but it's not our preferred way to get around.
- The kids: We have kids (ages 6 and 3) so it would be nice to have some space. We need 3 bedrooms, and ideally we'd have a bit of room for them to run around. Just like every other parent, we'd like to live near good schools.
- Money: We're reasonably well off, enough that we can afford to rent in the inner suburbs. We're probably looking to rent in the $800 to $1000pw range. If things work out for us we have enough assets that we could buy a place, but we want to rent for a while before committing to that.
Possibilities we've talked about
To be honest, we're pretty much in the dark at the moment. Neither of us really knows Sydney very well, and we don't have a lot of friends with relevant experience. However, these are the places we've been talking about among ourselves:
- Camperdown/Newtown. The advantages seem to be that these are close to Sydney uni, are close to train stations, have lots of things to do on King St, and the schools seem really good. Disadvantages: small living spaces, the 370 bus trip to UNSW is not so great (it seemed fine when I took it, but people have grumbled to me about King St traffic a lot?)
- Inner west more generally. People we've spoken to have made various suggestions along the lines of Marrickville, Petersham, Lewisham etc. I have the impression that these areas are slightly cheaper than some of the other options, and we'd probably be able to afford something with a little room. Public transport in general seems good, but it's not as obvious how to get to UNSW from a lot of locations in the inner west. Also we've occasionally been given some vague non-specific "schools are hit and miss in the inner west" hints, but I'm really not sure what that is supposed to mean.
- Surry Hills. In some respects this seems perfect, and if we didn't have kids it'd be a no-brainer: it's reasonably close to both Sydney uni and UNSW, it's close to Central station, there seems to be stuff to do on Bourke St. But the kids make it tricky: small living spaces, parking likely to be a problem (maybe?). I know nothing about the schools, but I assume they're okay?
- Around UNSW. Lots of things sort of mashed together here. Randwick and Kensington seem to have a lot of apartments near UNSW, but the transport links to Sydney uni and to the CBD don't seem so great. From what we've been told the schools here are great. That said, Randwick seems pricier than the other options we've thought about.
- Further east. A few people suggested Maroubra or Coogee, but we're a bit worried about transport options: it looks easy to get to UNSW, but a bit rubbish for getting to Sydney uni. On the other hand, great beaches, and in Maroubra we'd probably be able to afford something a little nicer than most other places in the east.
I should mention in passing that both UNSW and Sydney have been really good about offering relocation assistance. Also, they're both fully aware of the situation we're about to end up in regarding child care (for 3yr old) and the ghastly waiting lists, and are both fine with us working from home a lot until we get that problem sorted out.
In any case, any suggestions or comments would be appreciated, even if it's as simple as telling us whether or not the summaries above are accurate. We've walked through most of those neighbourhoods at least once, but we're not deluding ourselves into thinking we know what we're doing here!
The big things
- Getting around: My partner's job is at Sydney uni, mine is at UNSW: we'd like it if we can both take public transport to work and keep the commute to about an hour each way. Besides getting back and forth from work, we like the idea of being able to get around and do things with public transport. Living near a train station would be really nice from that perspective. We do have a car and would like to keep it because it's so handy with young kids, but it's not our preferred way to get around.
- The kids: We have kids (ages 6 and 3) so it would be nice to have some space. We need 3 bedrooms, and ideally we'd have a bit of room for them to run around. Just like every other parent, we'd like to live near good schools.
- Money: We're reasonably well off, enough that we can afford to rent in the inner suburbs. We're probably looking to rent in the $800 to $1000pw range. If things work out for us we have enough assets that we could buy a place, but we want to rent for a while before committing to that.
Possibilities we've talked about
To be honest, we're pretty much in the dark at the moment. Neither of us really knows Sydney very well, and we don't have a lot of friends with relevant experience. However, these are the places we've been talking about among ourselves:
- Camperdown/Newtown. The advantages seem to be that these are close to Sydney uni, are close to train stations, have lots of things to do on King St, and the schools seem really good. Disadvantages: small living spaces, the 370 bus trip to UNSW is not so great (it seemed fine when I took it, but people have grumbled to me about King St traffic a lot?)
- Inner west more generally. People we've spoken to have made various suggestions along the lines of Marrickville, Petersham, Lewisham etc. I have the impression that these areas are slightly cheaper than some of the other options, and we'd probably be able to afford something with a little room. Public transport in general seems good, but it's not as obvious how to get to UNSW from a lot of locations in the inner west. Also we've occasionally been given some vague non-specific "schools are hit and miss in the inner west" hints, but I'm really not sure what that is supposed to mean.
- Surry Hills. In some respects this seems perfect, and if we didn't have kids it'd be a no-brainer: it's reasonably close to both Sydney uni and UNSW, it's close to Central station, there seems to be stuff to do on Bourke St. But the kids make it tricky: small living spaces, parking likely to be a problem (maybe?). I know nothing about the schools, but I assume they're okay?
- Around UNSW. Lots of things sort of mashed together here. Randwick and Kensington seem to have a lot of apartments near UNSW, but the transport links to Sydney uni and to the CBD don't seem so great. From what we've been told the schools here are great. That said, Randwick seems pricier than the other options we've thought about.
- Further east. A few people suggested Maroubra or Coogee, but we're a bit worried about transport options: it looks easy to get to UNSW, but a bit rubbish for getting to Sydney uni. On the other hand, great beaches, and in Maroubra we'd probably be able to afford something a little nicer than most other places in the east.
I should mention in passing that both UNSW and Sydney have been really good about offering relocation assistance. Also, they're both fully aware of the situation we're about to end up in regarding child care (for 3yr old) and the ghastly waiting lists, and are both fine with us working from home a lot until we get that problem sorted out.
In any case, any suggestions or comments would be appreciated, even if it's as simple as telling us whether or not the summaries above are accurate. We've walked through most of those neighbourhoods at least once, but we're not deluding ourselves into thinking we know what we're doing here!
I asked a friend and she said Marrickville.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:31 AM on September 26, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 1:31 AM on September 26, 2015
If you want to take public transport to UNSW, the majority of the buses go from Central Station or the city via Anzac Parade, as you know.
The direct express buses (89_) TO unsw run until about 2pm, the express buses from UNSW to Central run from lunchtime or so till late - they don't run for the reverse commute.
Google maps estimates for bus times are pretty accurate. Caveat: buses will not stop when they are full of passengers. This can be a problem at peak hours - X9* buses to the city, and some single-bus-every-half-hour routes will not stop on the later part of their route at around 8:15-8:30am.
===================
Surrey Hills: expensive. Rent for a place with a parking spot will be higher. Forget parking if your apartment doesn't have a spot.
As a sidenote, AVOID Redfern. It's well known for being a rough area.
Around UNSW: Kensington and Kingsford are the cheaper suburbs, more students in the area. Big supermarkets are all a bit inconvenient (there's one at Eastgardens, one in Randwick, and one in SW Kensington - best to drive to that one.)
Randwick is more expensive, but a nicer area, more families with kids and less students. On the practical side, Randwick also has the best shops, and plenty to do. Street parking is possible.
Other suburbs to consider: Many UNSW staff end up living in Mascot/Rosebery area - directly on the train line to Sydney uni, and there are a few buses to UNSW.
Other notes
=======
You mention you're moving around the end of the year - if you can move in November or December, you'll have a much easier time finding a place than if you move in January/February. Rentals are significantly more competitive at the start of the university year due to the number of students moving in, anywhere near either campus - particularly UNSW due to the lack of a train line. This might not apply as much if you choose to live further from the university campus.
posted by Ashlyth at 1:38 AM on September 26, 2015
The direct express buses (89_) TO unsw run until about 2pm, the express buses from UNSW to Central run from lunchtime or so till late - they don't run for the reverse commute.
Google maps estimates for bus times are pretty accurate. Caveat: buses will not stop when they are full of passengers. This can be a problem at peak hours - X9* buses to the city, and some single-bus-every-half-hour routes will not stop on the later part of their route at around 8:15-8:30am.
===================
Surrey Hills: expensive. Rent for a place with a parking spot will be higher. Forget parking if your apartment doesn't have a spot.
As a sidenote, AVOID Redfern. It's well known for being a rough area.
Around UNSW: Kensington and Kingsford are the cheaper suburbs, more students in the area. Big supermarkets are all a bit inconvenient (there's one at Eastgardens, one in Randwick, and one in SW Kensington - best to drive to that one.)
Randwick is more expensive, but a nicer area, more families with kids and less students. On the practical side, Randwick also has the best shops, and plenty to do. Street parking is possible.
Other suburbs to consider: Many UNSW staff end up living in Mascot/Rosebery area - directly on the train line to Sydney uni, and there are a few buses to UNSW.
Other notes
=======
You mention you're moving around the end of the year - if you can move in November or December, you'll have a much easier time finding a place than if you move in January/February. Rentals are significantly more competitive at the start of the university year due to the number of students moving in, anywhere near either campus - particularly UNSW due to the lack of a train line. This might not apply as much if you choose to live further from the university campus.
posted by Ashlyth at 1:38 AM on September 26, 2015
There are lots of buses to UNSW from Central Station, so if you're in the inner west I'd suggest trying to get close to a train station. In peak hour, the buses travel along the special busway near Moore Park and they are actually pretty quick. Depending on which faculty your partner is working for at Sydney Uni, it may be more convenient to get a bus along City Rd or Parramatta Rd, or a train to Redfern. If going the train option, I would be wary about walking to the station at night - I've heard quite a few stories of people getting mugged along that walk*. Sydney Uni used to have a night time shuttle bus to the station - not sure if they still do.
For checking out transport options, hopefully you are already aware of the TransportInfoNSW website?
Regarding schools: you can check out some information on the My Schools website, which shows average test scores and demographic information of each school. Are you looking at private schools or public schools? (Getting your 6 year old straight into a private school may be a big challenge.) My understanding is that the public school whose catchment you reside in is required to take your kid, but you can apply to out-of-area schools if they have vacancies. Often desirable schools will not have vacancies.
To own my bias: I've never lived in the Eastern Suburbs and I don't know much about the geography over that way. If I were you, I would consider Summer Hill (the next stop out on the train line from Lewisham). It's a bit trendy these days (like a more respectable Newtown, lots of cafes and organic groceries) but there are nice parks and a very well regarded primary school**. There is a train station, and buses to Sydney uni run along Parramatta Rd, Liverpool Rd and Old Canterbury Rd. If you lived here, travel time to UNSW would be around an hour by train and bus, and notionally a bit over half an hour to Sydney Uni by bus, though I would allow longer in peak hour. The main difficulty may be that there aren't many apartments, and there doesn't seem to be much available to rent in the size range you are looking for. Generally I use Domain or Realestate.com.au when looking for places to rent in Sydney.
*I feel wary saying that about Redfern, as there are racial issues that almost certainly impact on the public discourse about safety in that area, and I hesitate to participate in that. However, in all honesty I would not walk from Sydney Uni to Redfern Station on my own at night, so I figure it's important information to have.
**The numbers are a bit misleading - the school has 2 "gifted and talented" classes in yr 5 and 6, which skews the academic results.
posted by Cheese Monster at 1:43 AM on September 26, 2015
For checking out transport options, hopefully you are already aware of the TransportInfoNSW website?
Regarding schools: you can check out some information on the My Schools website, which shows average test scores and demographic information of each school. Are you looking at private schools or public schools? (Getting your 6 year old straight into a private school may be a big challenge.) My understanding is that the public school whose catchment you reside in is required to take your kid, but you can apply to out-of-area schools if they have vacancies. Often desirable schools will not have vacancies.
To own my bias: I've never lived in the Eastern Suburbs and I don't know much about the geography over that way. If I were you, I would consider Summer Hill (the next stop out on the train line from Lewisham). It's a bit trendy these days (like a more respectable Newtown, lots of cafes and organic groceries) but there are nice parks and a very well regarded primary school**. There is a train station, and buses to Sydney uni run along Parramatta Rd, Liverpool Rd and Old Canterbury Rd. If you lived here, travel time to UNSW would be around an hour by train and bus, and notionally a bit over half an hour to Sydney Uni by bus, though I would allow longer in peak hour. The main difficulty may be that there aren't many apartments, and there doesn't seem to be much available to rent in the size range you are looking for. Generally I use Domain or Realestate.com.au when looking for places to rent in Sydney.
*I feel wary saying that about Redfern, as there are racial issues that almost certainly impact on the public discourse about safety in that area, and I hesitate to participate in that. However, in all honesty I would not walk from Sydney Uni to Redfern Station on my own at night, so I figure it's important information to have.
**The numbers are a bit misleading - the school has 2 "gifted and talented" classes in yr 5 and 6, which skews the academic results.
posted by Cheese Monster at 1:43 AM on September 26, 2015
You like public transport and yet you're not considering the best public transport in the world - the Manly ferry! We live in Manly and my husband catches the ferry to the Circular Quay. Twenty minute trip and he has on occasions, dolphins and even a whale escorting him across the harbour. Plus you know, Opera house views etc etc. It's just magical. Central is a few minutes from Circular Quay and from there you can grab a bus to your locations. Schools in Manly are great (so I'm told, my kids aren't school age yet. Daycare waiting lists are nuts though). Rent is expensive, though anywhere you've mentioned is at least as expensive and places like Coogee, Surry Hills even more so. Basically you want to live in the same places everyone else wants to live (for good reason), it probably just means you're not going to get a bargain but you seem to know that anyway.
Every place you've mentioned will be great for completely different reasons. I'm not that familiar with the Inner West (However I used to live in Surrey Hills) but my friends rave about it and they have young families. I'd just spend time in each place and see what your gut says.
posted by Jubey at 3:16 AM on September 26, 2015
Every place you've mentioned will be great for completely different reasons. I'm not that familiar with the Inner West (However I used to live in Surrey Hills) but my friends rave about it and they have young families. I'd just spend time in each place and see what your gut says.
posted by Jubey at 3:16 AM on September 26, 2015
Manly is great, it's also a million, million miles away from the rest of Sydney, and both universities. The ferry is cool, but expensive to catch regularly and it's slow as hell.
I would forget about the inner city ones like Surry Hills etc; houses are prohibitively expensive and parking often sucks. I would concentrate on suburbs along the inner west (summer hill, petersham, etc) or bankstown (dulwich hill etc) lines. Catching the bus from Central is totes the way to go for getting to the uni.
posted by smoke at 3:37 AM on September 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would forget about the inner city ones like Surry Hills etc; houses are prohibitively expensive and parking often sucks. I would concentrate on suburbs along the inner west (summer hill, petersham, etc) or bankstown (dulwich hill etc) lines. Catching the bus from Central is totes the way to go for getting to the uni.
posted by smoke at 3:37 AM on September 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, smoke is right - I'd love to live in Manly, but not if I was working at UNSW or Sydney Uni. If you lived here, for instance, which is quite close to Manly wharf, it would take at least 1:20 to get to UNSW, and still over an hour to get to Sydney Uni.
posted by Cheese Monster at 4:25 AM on September 26, 2015
posted by Cheese Monster at 4:25 AM on September 26, 2015
I live in Newtown and love it, 8 min walk to the station and we very rarely have trouble finding parking on the street. That does get harder the closer you get to the university. However it is expensive and we made a serious compromise on space. For us having easy access to King St and transport negates the fact that the house is the size of a shoebox.
370 is ridiculously slow. Avoid.
Be aware that a lot of the inner west suburbs can be severely impacted by aircraft noise, Marrickville and Stanmore in particular can be really, really loud, also Mascot can be unbearable just for being so close to the airport.
Summer Hill is a lovely suburb, as is Dulwich Hill. Hurlstone Park is a bit rougher around the edges but I have friends there who love it and you will get more house for your money, and more likely a yard if that is important to you. All on train lines.
Parts of Redfern are still a bit dodgy, especially near the station, but it is really honestly not that bad, especially as you get closer to Surry Hills. Alexandria might be a better option to look into. No train station but excellent bus connections. Industrial vibe, lots of cool new cafes and restaurants.
One thing I would warn about is that the quality of public schools varies dramatically, even within suburbs. For a lot of not great reasons the schools in Waterloo/Mascot have had troubling reputations.
I also lived for years on the lower north shore, which might be worth considering if you like space and greenery and don't mind so much if a suburb is, well, kinda boring. Again not cheap, but Artarmon, Lane Cove and Willoughby have decent transport links and excellent schools, with the advantage of being within striking distance of the northern beaches on weekends. Artarmon in particular is on the train line, and Chatswood has some of the best cheap restaurants in Sydney, especially if you like Asian cuisine.
posted by arha at 4:43 AM on September 26, 2015
370 is ridiculously slow. Avoid.
Be aware that a lot of the inner west suburbs can be severely impacted by aircraft noise, Marrickville and Stanmore in particular can be really, really loud, also Mascot can be unbearable just for being so close to the airport.
Summer Hill is a lovely suburb, as is Dulwich Hill. Hurlstone Park is a bit rougher around the edges but I have friends there who love it and you will get more house for your money, and more likely a yard if that is important to you. All on train lines.
Parts of Redfern are still a bit dodgy, especially near the station, but it is really honestly not that bad, especially as you get closer to Surry Hills. Alexandria might be a better option to look into. No train station but excellent bus connections. Industrial vibe, lots of cool new cafes and restaurants.
One thing I would warn about is that the quality of public schools varies dramatically, even within suburbs. For a lot of not great reasons the schools in Waterloo/Mascot have had troubling reputations.
I also lived for years on the lower north shore, which might be worth considering if you like space and greenery and don't mind so much if a suburb is, well, kinda boring. Again not cheap, but Artarmon, Lane Cove and Willoughby have decent transport links and excellent schools, with the advantage of being within striking distance of the northern beaches on weekends. Artarmon in particular is on the train line, and Chatswood has some of the best cheap restaurants in Sydney, especially if you like Asian cuisine.
posted by arha at 4:43 AM on September 26, 2015
Oh, feel free to MeFi mail me if you'd like. I work with a lot of estate agents, spent 2 years looking for my current house and could bore on about the relative merits of Sydney suburbs for hours.
posted by arha at 4:50 AM on September 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by arha at 4:50 AM on September 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone: this is all super helpful, and does help us narrow things down a bit!
posted by langtonsant at 8:43 PM on September 27, 2015
posted by langtonsant at 8:43 PM on September 27, 2015
« Older Is offering her oral sex "appropriate" for our... | Suggestions for fun home exercises that are not... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
For Sydney Uni transport you just need to get to Redfern Station which is easy. Don't get the 370 to UNSW, it's slow and creeps around. From anywhere you can get a train, go to Central then get the 890 shuttle bus that goes straight to the campus from Eddy Ave, it's much faster.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 1:21 AM on September 26, 2015 [1 favorite]