ADHD'ers! Help me get a full night's sleep!
September 22, 2015 6:58 AM Subscribe
It's a common problem, right? What works to help ADHD'ers get to sleep? It seems like the normal things you see via studies aren't effective for me.
I've been having an extremely tough time sleeping at night over the past few weeks. In hindsight, it's been a long time since I've had a great night's sleep. Last week, I got a severe cold, and the best sleep I've had in months came via the aid of Nyquil. In my mind, this is an enormous problem. What gives?
Electronics before bed, I tried ending that with no real results. I have yet to put in blackout currents in my room. That's on my list. My mind races throughout the night at different levels. Sex doesn't seem to wear me out. Working out gets me amped up. I find that most of the time I feel exhausted, and then as soon as my head hits the pillow -- I'm awake. Temperature is somewhat of a problem, but for the most part -- even if I have it colder than normal, it's not always a great sleep.
I'm very hesitant to see a doctor and intervene with drugs. One time, against my better judgement, I took a Kolonopin from a friend who uses it for anxiety. It was fantastic and basically shut off all my racing mind. Obviously, I don't want to use it for an unintended use, so I have never turned back to anything like that. Is medication a route to explore? I don't want to become addicted.
What else can I do? Any tips, tricks, things that always work for ADHD'ers?
I've been having an extremely tough time sleeping at night over the past few weeks. In hindsight, it's been a long time since I've had a great night's sleep. Last week, I got a severe cold, and the best sleep I've had in months came via the aid of Nyquil. In my mind, this is an enormous problem. What gives?
Electronics before bed, I tried ending that with no real results. I have yet to put in blackout currents in my room. That's on my list. My mind races throughout the night at different levels. Sex doesn't seem to wear me out. Working out gets me amped up. I find that most of the time I feel exhausted, and then as soon as my head hits the pillow -- I'm awake. Temperature is somewhat of a problem, but for the most part -- even if I have it colder than normal, it's not always a great sleep.
I'm very hesitant to see a doctor and intervene with drugs. One time, against my better judgement, I took a Kolonopin from a friend who uses it for anxiety. It was fantastic and basically shut off all my racing mind. Obviously, I don't want to use it for an unintended use, so I have never turned back to anything like that. Is medication a route to explore? I don't want to become addicted.
What else can I do? Any tips, tricks, things that always work for ADHD'ers?
Response by poster: [griphus] - On and off. I've had mixed results. It seems to help me fall asleep, but I still wake up a couple hours later in the middle of the night. Magnesium... I believe at one point, I took way too much and had a really bad reaction that made me unbelievably ill. I'm hesitant to try it again, but I have been eating a lot of sunflower seeds, which gives me that dose. It seems to help sometimes.
posted by MMALR at 7:01 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by MMALR at 7:01 AM on September 22, 2015
Pharmaceuticals are better regulated for quality and dose than supplements like melatonin or magnesium, for what it's worth.
Most nights, I do Sunday New York Times crossword puzzles from a giant paper book in my bed, with a fairly low bedside light on, until I can't keep my eyes open. When I'm really anxious I take a Klonopin or half a benadryl. I also find slow-tempo EDM really sleep-inducing so I have a Spotify radio station I've curated pretty carefully and play that after lights-out.
When my kids wake me up in the middle of the night, though, it's all over.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:05 AM on September 22, 2015
Most nights, I do Sunday New York Times crossword puzzles from a giant paper book in my bed, with a fairly low bedside light on, until I can't keep my eyes open. When I'm really anxious I take a Klonopin or half a benadryl. I also find slow-tempo EDM really sleep-inducing so I have a Spotify radio station I've curated pretty carefully and play that after lights-out.
When my kids wake me up in the middle of the night, though, it's all over.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:05 AM on September 22, 2015
Do you drink coffee? Have you tried not having any at all, or not having any after around mid-afternoon? That helped me a lot. Also some nice ambient sounds, which may not be for everyone but it definitely worked for me to begin with.
posted by vanar sena at 7:12 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by vanar sena at 7:12 AM on September 22, 2015
Best answer: I recently posted at length here and here about what I've found helpful in regulating my sleep cycle.
In summary, I've had fairly good results by controlling light sources at night and in the morning as well as taking a non benzo, non hypnotic, non addictive med (clonidine).
Clonidine is actually FDA approved for treatment of ADHD (which I also have). It really makes a world of difference for me. I've taken for about 5-6 years now, and I haven't had to increase my dose at all in that time. It doesn't make me feel drugged up, and there's no hangover effect. I feel like it just helps me relax enough that both my mind and my body can settle down and get to sleep. If I fight the effects, then it won't work, but if I also stick to good sleep hygiene practices, then it really makes such a huge difference. Seriously, I'm so happy that I had a psychiatrist who prescribed it to me, because I was a lifelong insomniac, and I have a history of addiction so any kind of benzo or hypnotic (like ambien) is not an option for me. Obviously, IANAD/IANYD, but I would definitely look into this option.
As for the light stuff, the general principle is that orange/red light helps your brain sleep, and blue or broad spectrum light helps you wake up. (Here is an answer to a previous question where I linked to a couple of published articles from researches who have done studies about light therapy and circadian rhythms.)
The nighttime light stuff is is more crucial for me than the morning light therapy. Personally, there's no way I could not use my computer before going to sleep. Instead, I bought these blue light blocking glasses (they're actually intended as lab safety glasses for people who work with uv spectrum lights), and I just wear them for the two hours before going to bed. They do give the world an orange-y tint, but I don't find it to be a big deal unless you wanted to like paint a picture since it makes it hard to distinguish between green and blue.
Also, I got an orange light bulb and put it in my bed side lamp, and I used that as my only light source two hours before bed. I also used some orange transparency stuff to put over blue displays on things like my alarm clock.
Instead of using black out curtains, I actually use a sleep mask. It might take a bit of time for you to get adjusted to it, but the reason why I prefer the sleep mask is that it also helps block out any light sources that come from your room. (If you have a problem with waking up in the morning because of too much light in your room, then obviously you'll want the blackout curtains.)
Anyway, you'll find amazon links and more in depth descriptions for the orange glasses, orange light bulb, etc in that second link. The great things is that all those things were pretty cheap (like under $10) so not a huge investment even if they don't work.
I really can't emphasize what a huge difference this has made for me. It hasn't solved everything (mornings are still kind of painful), but as someone who used to have really extreme, intractable insomnia, this has made such a world of difference.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:21 AM on September 22, 2015 [15 favorites]
In summary, I've had fairly good results by controlling light sources at night and in the morning as well as taking a non benzo, non hypnotic, non addictive med (clonidine).
Clonidine is actually FDA approved for treatment of ADHD (which I also have). It really makes a world of difference for me. I've taken for about 5-6 years now, and I haven't had to increase my dose at all in that time. It doesn't make me feel drugged up, and there's no hangover effect. I feel like it just helps me relax enough that both my mind and my body can settle down and get to sleep. If I fight the effects, then it won't work, but if I also stick to good sleep hygiene practices, then it really makes such a huge difference. Seriously, I'm so happy that I had a psychiatrist who prescribed it to me, because I was a lifelong insomniac, and I have a history of addiction so any kind of benzo or hypnotic (like ambien) is not an option for me. Obviously, IANAD/IANYD, but I would definitely look into this option.
As for the light stuff, the general principle is that orange/red light helps your brain sleep, and blue or broad spectrum light helps you wake up. (Here is an answer to a previous question where I linked to a couple of published articles from researches who have done studies about light therapy and circadian rhythms.)
The nighttime light stuff is is more crucial for me than the morning light therapy. Personally, there's no way I could not use my computer before going to sleep. Instead, I bought these blue light blocking glasses (they're actually intended as lab safety glasses for people who work with uv spectrum lights), and I just wear them for the two hours before going to bed. They do give the world an orange-y tint, but I don't find it to be a big deal unless you wanted to like paint a picture since it makes it hard to distinguish between green and blue.
Also, I got an orange light bulb and put it in my bed side lamp, and I used that as my only light source two hours before bed. I also used some orange transparency stuff to put over blue displays on things like my alarm clock.
Instead of using black out curtains, I actually use a sleep mask. It might take a bit of time for you to get adjusted to it, but the reason why I prefer the sleep mask is that it also helps block out any light sources that come from your room. (If you have a problem with waking up in the morning because of too much light in your room, then obviously you'll want the blackout curtains.)
Anyway, you'll find amazon links and more in depth descriptions for the orange glasses, orange light bulb, etc in that second link. The great things is that all those things were pretty cheap (like under $10) so not a huge investment even if they don't work.
I really can't emphasize what a huge difference this has made for me. It hasn't solved everything (mornings are still kind of painful), but as someone who used to have really extreme, intractable insomnia, this has made such a world of difference.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:21 AM on September 22, 2015 [15 favorites]
I have regular blood tests for various reasons, and at one point found I had certain vitamin deficiencies. Getting those sorted made quite a difference in being able to dial down my brain for good sleep. As part of that, I've found that quite a bit of the traditional advice for good sleep hygiene works, and we still maintain Operation Awesome Bed - but now with making this Natural Calm drink a part of it for me.
Melatonin gave me weird dreams; sleeping pills gave me anxiety about being able to wake up and be ready for the next day; and while I do enjoy a good NeoCitran if I'm genuinely sick and need to sleep to get better, my doctor did mention that there are certain prescriptions that help people re-settle after middle of the night interruptions, which OTC cold remedies don't do - but I'm saving asking for more pills until the other methods stop working.
I also like to have something like a boring podcast or an audiobook playing - it keeps that one track of my brain busy so that the fretting doesn't have time to amp up. I've been listening to the Goldfinch wherever I find it on YouTube for over a year now. I haven't made it past a certain chapter no matter how many times I try. So now I just zoom right to that part, and something about trying to follow it conks me right out. Best wishes - I know this sucks!
posted by peagood at 7:26 AM on September 22, 2015
Melatonin gave me weird dreams; sleeping pills gave me anxiety about being able to wake up and be ready for the next day; and while I do enjoy a good NeoCitran if I'm genuinely sick and need to sleep to get better, my doctor did mention that there are certain prescriptions that help people re-settle after middle of the night interruptions, which OTC cold remedies don't do - but I'm saving asking for more pills until the other methods stop working.
I also like to have something like a boring podcast or an audiobook playing - it keeps that one track of my brain busy so that the fretting doesn't have time to amp up. I've been listening to the Goldfinch wherever I find it on YouTube for over a year now. I haven't made it past a certain chapter no matter how many times I try. So now I just zoom right to that part, and something about trying to follow it conks me right out. Best wishes - I know this sucks!
posted by peagood at 7:26 AM on September 22, 2015
Working out gets me amped up.
Have you tried working out earlier in the day? You definitely shouldn't be working out close to bed time.
Also, I use a white noise app on my iphone to help me sleep. I use one specific sound (ocean waves), and I only ever use it right when I want to sleep. (Sometimes I use other white noise when I need to block out day time sounds since I'm very sensitive to background noises.) Now, when I hear the ocean waves sound, it's like I have a kind of Pavlovian/conditioned response to go to sleep.
Sometimes, when I'm really keyed up and I need something more distracting, I listen to 60 minutes podcasts. I find them soothing but not too distracting.
I've also developed one other mental trick. I'm not really a big meditation person but I guess this is in that kind of vein, although most other meditation/mindfulness practices that I've tried tend to make me feel like I'm crawling out of my skin. This wasn't really something I set out to do; I sort of developed it organically when I was a kid.
I know it sounds kind of cheesy, but I start by imaging I'm on the beach. I imagine relaxing in the water, lying on the sand. The key is to really, really imagine the sensations and sounds, vividly. (I find this to be pretty easy to do, but YMMV.) Depending on how long it takes me to sleep, the scene gets more and more elaborate. Sometimes I ride a horse on the beach. The idea is that you want to pick a scenario where you know the sights, sounds, and sensations really well, so that you can conjure them up easily in your mind. (I grew up in Florida, and I've ridden horses for 20 years, so these are all things that I can imagine pretty effortlessly.) Of course, you also want it to be something relaxing and soothing but not activating.
I also have a couple of other scenarios I've developed, so I use different ones depending on my mood. It does take some focus when you're first getting started, but now that I've been doing this for a long time, it takes no real concentration. My brain is just sort of conditioned to follow along at this point.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:37 AM on September 22, 2015
Have you tried working out earlier in the day? You definitely shouldn't be working out close to bed time.
Also, I use a white noise app on my iphone to help me sleep. I use one specific sound (ocean waves), and I only ever use it right when I want to sleep. (Sometimes I use other white noise when I need to block out day time sounds since I'm very sensitive to background noises.) Now, when I hear the ocean waves sound, it's like I have a kind of Pavlovian/conditioned response to go to sleep.
Sometimes, when I'm really keyed up and I need something more distracting, I listen to 60 minutes podcasts. I find them soothing but not too distracting.
I've also developed one other mental trick. I'm not really a big meditation person but I guess this is in that kind of vein, although most other meditation/mindfulness practices that I've tried tend to make me feel like I'm crawling out of my skin. This wasn't really something I set out to do; I sort of developed it organically when I was a kid.
I know it sounds kind of cheesy, but I start by imaging I'm on the beach. I imagine relaxing in the water, lying on the sand. The key is to really, really imagine the sensations and sounds, vividly. (I find this to be pretty easy to do, but YMMV.) Depending on how long it takes me to sleep, the scene gets more and more elaborate. Sometimes I ride a horse on the beach. The idea is that you want to pick a scenario where you know the sights, sounds, and sensations really well, so that you can conjure them up easily in your mind. (I grew up in Florida, and I've ridden horses for 20 years, so these are all things that I can imagine pretty effortlessly.) Of course, you also want it to be something relaxing and soothing but not activating.
I also have a couple of other scenarios I've developed, so I use different ones depending on my mood. It does take some focus when you're first getting started, but now that I've been doing this for a long time, it takes no real concentration. My brain is just sort of conditioned to follow along at this point.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:37 AM on September 22, 2015
It hasn't been perfect but the only way I have been able to attack my ADHD symptoms is by bribing myself into performing rituals. By which I mean, you have to set up a system that will relax you and get you to sleep every night and get you up every morning, and you have to include enough pleasurable pieces of the ritual that you'll want do it every single day.
Here is an (aspirational) example - I was doing pretty well with this before I moved and then I've let it fall apart since, so I'm writing this out in part to motivate myself.
Every night at 10 pm:
Change into pajamas
Watch one episode of relaxing television - ideally same show every night. (for me it's Seinfeld - complete entertaining but with no cliffhangers to keep you watching the next episode)
Brush teeth. Wash face. Use really nice-smelling face scrub, moisturizer.
Do twenty minutes of relaxing stretching/yoga
Listen to episode of podcast or audiobook in bed
Meditate
Put on ASMR podcast and fall asleep
The idea here is that instead of trying to force myself into going to bed (boring! Not nearly as fun as playing video games!), resisting, and then staying awake until I'm almost too exhausted to fall asleep, I put together a series of steps of things I want to do, all of which are working towards slowly winding me down and getting me into a sleepy mindset. I plan them out, and then the rule is that I have to do them all, and I have to do them in order. If I told myself at ten pm I had to meditate and go lie down, I'd probably be resistant, but I LOVE changing into my PJ's (so cozy!) and I LOVE watching Seinfeld, so it's not hard to do that - but by doing that every night before I go to bed, I bribe myself into getting into 'bed mode' at the same time. I used to resist brushing my teeth and washing my face before bed (because mentally I'm basically a six year old) but if I bribe myself with delicious smelling moisturizer, I look forward to it and it's easier to get over that hub of resistance. Getting into bed is annoying - but if there's an interesting podcast to look forward to once I'm there, okay, sure. Etc.
Basically, everywhere you sense a little hump of resistance - a friction that's keeping you from doing something that your better self knows you should do - you put in a little reward to power yourself through it without effort, thereby husbanding your very limited reserves of willpower. Obviously, you'll have to develop your own strategies + rituals based on your own needs, but this approach has been a life-changer for me.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:54 AM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Here is an (aspirational) example - I was doing pretty well with this before I moved and then I've let it fall apart since, so I'm writing this out in part to motivate myself.
Every night at 10 pm:
Change into pajamas
Watch one episode of relaxing television - ideally same show every night. (for me it's Seinfeld - complete entertaining but with no cliffhangers to keep you watching the next episode)
Brush teeth. Wash face. Use really nice-smelling face scrub, moisturizer.
Do twenty minutes of relaxing stretching/yoga
Listen to episode of podcast or audiobook in bed
Meditate
Put on ASMR podcast and fall asleep
The idea here is that instead of trying to force myself into going to bed (boring! Not nearly as fun as playing video games!), resisting, and then staying awake until I'm almost too exhausted to fall asleep, I put together a series of steps of things I want to do, all of which are working towards slowly winding me down and getting me into a sleepy mindset. I plan them out, and then the rule is that I have to do them all, and I have to do them in order. If I told myself at ten pm I had to meditate and go lie down, I'd probably be resistant, but I LOVE changing into my PJ's (so cozy!) and I LOVE watching Seinfeld, so it's not hard to do that - but by doing that every night before I go to bed, I bribe myself into getting into 'bed mode' at the same time. I used to resist brushing my teeth and washing my face before bed (because mentally I'm basically a six year old) but if I bribe myself with delicious smelling moisturizer, I look forward to it and it's easier to get over that hub of resistance. Getting into bed is annoying - but if there's an interesting podcast to look forward to once I'm there, okay, sure. Etc.
Basically, everywhere you sense a little hump of resistance - a friction that's keeping you from doing something that your better self knows you should do - you put in a little reward to power yourself through it without effort, thereby husbanding your very limited reserves of willpower. Obviously, you'll have to develop your own strategies + rituals based on your own needs, but this approach has been a life-changer for me.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:54 AM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
I do most of what's recommended here on the night-time end of things (Natural Calm/magnesium supplementation; low-dose melatonin; blue-light blocking; white-noise/soothing sounds; rigid bedtime ritual and time with rewards [cozy jammies or vintage nightgown]; hard exercise not too close to bedtime).
I also rig mornings to support that night's sleep. Unspeakably bright broad-spectrum light (I go beyond the gentle sunrise clocks--a full-on SunRay prescription light turns on over my head at 5:00 AM every day) at an ungodly hour of the morning, out of bed and to the kitchen trying to eat something small and have a little coffee as soon as the alarm went off--even if at first it ended in me lying down on the floor whining about being out of bed so early. (Set up your thermostat to warm the house/areas you need to use about a half-hour before your light goes on and it'll be much easier. I did not do this at first, and everything was harder.)
I sleep alone out of necessity/fragile sleep cycles, though.
posted by Naamah at 8:18 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I also rig mornings to support that night's sleep. Unspeakably bright broad-spectrum light (I go beyond the gentle sunrise clocks--a full-on SunRay prescription light turns on over my head at 5:00 AM every day) at an ungodly hour of the morning, out of bed and to the kitchen trying to eat something small and have a little coffee as soon as the alarm went off--even if at first it ended in me lying down on the floor whining about being out of bed so early. (Set up your thermostat to warm the house/areas you need to use about a half-hour before your light goes on and it'll be much easier. I did not do this at first, and everything was harder.)
I sleep alone out of necessity/fragile sleep cycles, though.
posted by Naamah at 8:18 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I often have the same problem so I don't exactly have a cure but I've identified some obstacles for me (i.e. if I do all this it's no guarantee, but if I don't then I have a lot more trouble falling asleep). So some things that help me:
1) incredibly comfortable bed and nice-feeling bedding (for me that's a memory foam mattress topper with clean and nice-feeling sheets and a down comforter). A fan that can be turned on in the middle of the night if I wake up hot in the summer, a microwaved hot pack in the winter.
2) completely eliminate all light, including things like little electronic lights and the cracks around the door
3) no coffee or other stimulants after noon (except dexedrine, that's ok until ~2)
4) turn internet off a few hours before bed (which I pretty much never succeed at) - I think flux and twilight on my desktop and phone respectively have helped, but the internet is too much stimulation and it's both hard to shut down at a reasonable hour and also gets the mind racing.
5) I know everyone says not to, but I find that reading for about 30m before bed helps me redirect my focus to the book (usually some light but engrossing fiction) and stop thinking about a billion other things. If I go to sleep right after, I can usually avoid those other things popping up again. The routine of it is helpful too. Probably won't work for you if you don't tend to hyperfocus/get absorbed by books, though.
6) if you're on adhd meds they might be causing problems, even if they're supposed to be long since metabolized (like the coffee). Everyone reacts differently but for example 4/5 times I take adderall (at the lowest useful dose for me, though it was worse at higher doses) I wake up the next morning hours earlier than I'd like to and can't get back to sleep, even if I've only slept for 4-5 hours. My doctor suggested adding buproprion to counteract that and it did seem to help, though I'm not sure it's really worth taking another daily drug just for that purpose. Also I know other people have actually found the opposite - that taking a small dose of stimulants before bed helps calm the adhd storm enough to sleep. So it's very individual, but can make a big difference for some people.
7) arrange the clock so you can't see it from bed and spiral into endless worrying about how late it is, how much sleep you're (not) getting, etc
8) as mentioned above, keeping to a routine helps your brain realize when it's time to shut down - e.g. I started showering every night, and have trouble sleeping now if I miss it. This is a common sleep suggestion but I think it's even more important for adhd brains. It also helps a lot if part of the routine is something you actually look forward to so you don't procrastinate starting it. I like including a little snack in my bedtime routine for that reason (usually frozen fruit) even though again, people usually recommend against eating right before bed. But hey, it helps me.
posted by randomnity at 8:23 AM on September 22, 2015
1) incredibly comfortable bed and nice-feeling bedding (for me that's a memory foam mattress topper with clean and nice-feeling sheets and a down comforter). A fan that can be turned on in the middle of the night if I wake up hot in the summer, a microwaved hot pack in the winter.
2) completely eliminate all light, including things like little electronic lights and the cracks around the door
3) no coffee or other stimulants after noon (except dexedrine, that's ok until ~2)
4) turn internet off a few hours before bed (which I pretty much never succeed at) - I think flux and twilight on my desktop and phone respectively have helped, but the internet is too much stimulation and it's both hard to shut down at a reasonable hour and also gets the mind racing.
5) I know everyone says not to, but I find that reading for about 30m before bed helps me redirect my focus to the book (usually some light but engrossing fiction) and stop thinking about a billion other things. If I go to sleep right after, I can usually avoid those other things popping up again. The routine of it is helpful too. Probably won't work for you if you don't tend to hyperfocus/get absorbed by books, though.
6) if you're on adhd meds they might be causing problems, even if they're supposed to be long since metabolized (like the coffee). Everyone reacts differently but for example 4/5 times I take adderall (at the lowest useful dose for me, though it was worse at higher doses) I wake up the next morning hours earlier than I'd like to and can't get back to sleep, even if I've only slept for 4-5 hours. My doctor suggested adding buproprion to counteract that and it did seem to help, though I'm not sure it's really worth taking another daily drug just for that purpose. Also I know other people have actually found the opposite - that taking a small dose of stimulants before bed helps calm the adhd storm enough to sleep. So it's very individual, but can make a big difference for some people.
7) arrange the clock so you can't see it from bed and spiral into endless worrying about how late it is, how much sleep you're (not) getting, etc
8) as mentioned above, keeping to a routine helps your brain realize when it's time to shut down - e.g. I started showering every night, and have trouble sleeping now if I miss it. This is a common sleep suggestion but I think it's even more important for adhd brains. It also helps a lot if part of the routine is something you actually look forward to so you don't procrastinate starting it. I like including a little snack in my bedtime routine for that reason (usually frozen fruit) even though again, people usually recommend against eating right before bed. But hey, it helps me.
posted by randomnity at 8:23 AM on September 22, 2015
I have had good luck with binaural apps and an Ipod with a pair of Tooks. There are some great apps, Sleep Stream 2 by Explosive Apps is my favorite. I look at as a way to put the monkey brain to sleep as it focuses on the sound pattern, with some nature noises to cover up any distracting sounds. It also has an alarm that works very well and I don't have to wake up my wife when I get up before her.
posted by worlddisciple at 9:46 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by worlddisciple at 9:46 AM on September 22, 2015
I am also prescribed clonidine for sleep, and it's so great. It's a blood pressure med, so there's not really any risk of dependence or abuse (other than psychological dependence, I guess), and because it lowers your blood pressure, you basically just feel relaxed and want to lie down and rest. For me it wears off in about three hours, so if you have issues waking up in the middle of the night it might not be the best solution, but if the issue is mainly shutting your brain off to go to bed, I would definitely consider talking with your doctor about it.
posted by odayoday at 10:06 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by odayoday at 10:06 AM on September 22, 2015
Seconding f.lux for your computer. If you have an Android, Twilight is a great app. I think f.lux is on iOS.
I am not great about this, but here are some things I know about myself:
1.) I cannot read when trying to go to sleep. I will keep reading until I finish what I am working on, no matter how wretched the book is (I finished Atlas Shrugged at 6am during high school. It was not worth it.) This also means no reading stuff online. It's too easy to wikiwalk or google more information.
2.) I use audio books that I have listened too many many times on very softly with a shutoff timer.
3.) I actually use computer games that I have played many many many times before with the screen set to lowest illumination and the screen a deep orange. It needs to be a game with long loading times, preferably a strategy game (I've found Civ is great for this, but only after I have gotten the compulsion out of my system when I first started playing. I need to know the game well enough that I am not waking up to think about what needs to be done. Also, put the game on easy/cheat. I'm not playing to win, I'm playing to fall asleep.)
4.) I wear glasses. I have two pairs, my normal pair and what have become my sleep glasses. They have the really flexible titanium frames. Putting them on signifies I'm going to be sleeping soon. It also means that I can still see the screen.
5.) Avoid alcohol. The rebound effect will make it harder to sleep.
6.) TV/videos works sometimes, but as above, it needs to be something I've seen repeatedly.
Basically, I try to slightly distract my brain so that I don't notice sleep creeping up on me. If I pay attention to my body or my mind, I don't find myself sleeping. By channeling my mind into something that is known, has long pauses (the length of turns in Civ is long enough that waiting for them is a help), and distracts me without really requiring any thought, I find falling asleep not much of an ordeal.
I'm pretty weird in this regard and I really can't recommend the gaming method unless you are someone who plays a non-twitch game regularly enough to be able to fall asleep to it, but it works for me. My big thing is familiarity with whatever I'm using for distraction. Otherwise, I get sucked in.
posted by Hactar at 10:15 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am not great about this, but here are some things I know about myself:
1.) I cannot read when trying to go to sleep. I will keep reading until I finish what I am working on, no matter how wretched the book is (I finished Atlas Shrugged at 6am during high school. It was not worth it.) This also means no reading stuff online. It's too easy to wikiwalk or google more information.
2.) I use audio books that I have listened too many many times on very softly with a shutoff timer.
3.) I actually use computer games that I have played many many many times before with the screen set to lowest illumination and the screen a deep orange. It needs to be a game with long loading times, preferably a strategy game (I've found Civ is great for this, but only after I have gotten the compulsion out of my system when I first started playing. I need to know the game well enough that I am not waking up to think about what needs to be done. Also, put the game on easy/cheat. I'm not playing to win, I'm playing to fall asleep.)
4.) I wear glasses. I have two pairs, my normal pair and what have become my sleep glasses. They have the really flexible titanium frames. Putting them on signifies I'm going to be sleeping soon. It also means that I can still see the screen.
5.) Avoid alcohol. The rebound effect will make it harder to sleep.
6.) TV/videos works sometimes, but as above, it needs to be something I've seen repeatedly.
Basically, I try to slightly distract my brain so that I don't notice sleep creeping up on me. If I pay attention to my body or my mind, I don't find myself sleeping. By channeling my mind into something that is known, has long pauses (the length of turns in Civ is long enough that waiting for them is a help), and distracts me without really requiring any thought, I find falling asleep not much of an ordeal.
I'm pretty weird in this regard and I really can't recommend the gaming method unless you are someone who plays a non-twitch game regularly enough to be able to fall asleep to it, but it works for me. My big thing is familiarity with whatever I'm using for distraction. Otherwise, I get sucked in.
posted by Hactar at 10:15 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can't shut my mind down at night and laying in the dark with nothing going on is like being buried alive. In the old days I'd read or sometimes put on a movie. Now, with a wife who falls asleep with relative ease but needs it dark and quiet, I put a podcast on and listen via one earbud. Works a charm for me.
If you have an ADHD rx, it might be worth talking about an adjustment with your doctor. Sleep issues were a big reason why I stopped taking them. Some were better than others but it just wasn't worth the marginal improvement...
posted by the christopher hundreds at 11:26 AM on September 22, 2015
If you have an ADHD rx, it might be worth talking about an adjustment with your doctor. Sleep issues were a big reason why I stopped taking them. Some were better than others but it just wasn't worth the marginal improvement...
posted by the christopher hundreds at 11:26 AM on September 22, 2015
Okay, one more comment:
I think it's totally fine to tell your psychiatrist (or other prescribing meds) that you're interested in trying something non-addictive for sleep (so no benzos, no hypnotics). I've heard some people who have had good luck with trazodone, but it didn't do much for me. I was prescribed seroquel for awhile, and it did put me to sleep. Like literally, I could not stay awake if I wanted to, but it also made me so incredibly hungry. I could be completely full before taking it, then an hour later, I would want to eat anything I could get my hands on. It was a good way to get rid of frozen meals that I never would have eaten otherwise, but really, it sucked. Seroquel can absolutely be a lifesaving med (it's an atypical antipsychotic), but in my layman's opinion, doctors are way too quick to prescribe it to people who only want treatment for insomnia, not something like schizophrenia or schizoaffective. In general, the atypical antipsychotics have a whole host of nasty side effects, and I was very happy to get off of it.
Again, IANAD, IANYD, but I think it's okay to be assertive about this kind of thing if you do want to explore the med route. Obviously it's trickier if you're being assertive about wanting things with recreational value, but the clonidine I recommended above does not fit that at all, and there are other similar meds like guanfacine or beta blockers (different target receptors, but similar in that they originally were intended as blood pressure meds, and don't have addictive/recreational potential).
Oh, and fwiw, I do take a stimulant medication to treat ADHD (Vyvanse). I'll nth that if you take a stimulant, that could be affecting your sleep as well.
I just noticed upon re-reading your question that you mentioned getting a good night's sleep with Nyquil. If you are ever really desperate for a good night's sleep, you might try taking doxylamine succinate which is the sedating anti-histamine in regular nyquil (or at least it used to be). It's similar to benadryl (diphenhydramine), but more sedating and a somewhat less effective antihistamine, which is why it's usually sold only for it's sleep properties, not as an antihistamine. You can usually find it sold under the unisom brand, but just check to make sure that the sleeping tablets do say doxylamine succinate because they also make ones with diphenhydramine. For whatever reason, benadryl doesn't help me sleep that well and it leaves me really hungover, but doxylamine succinate helps me sleep soundly and doesn't make me feel hungover the next day.
With that being said, two things to keep in mind: If you do take any prescription meds, then I would check with your prescribing physician before taking any of these over sleep the counter meds. Also, I would make sure to avoid taking doxylamine succinate with any kind of regularity. It can cause re-bound insomnia, and you can build up a tolerance. (A long time ago, I was trying to get off ambien, so I took doxylamine every night for 3 months straight, and went from 25 mg per night to about 200 mg per night by the end, which is way above the recommended dose, and it was not a smart thing to do, so please learn from my poor decision making.)
posted by litera scripta manet at 12:54 PM on September 22, 2015
I think it's totally fine to tell your psychiatrist (or other prescribing meds) that you're interested in trying something non-addictive for sleep (so no benzos, no hypnotics). I've heard some people who have had good luck with trazodone, but it didn't do much for me. I was prescribed seroquel for awhile, and it did put me to sleep. Like literally, I could not stay awake if I wanted to, but it also made me so incredibly hungry. I could be completely full before taking it, then an hour later, I would want to eat anything I could get my hands on. It was a good way to get rid of frozen meals that I never would have eaten otherwise, but really, it sucked. Seroquel can absolutely be a lifesaving med (it's an atypical antipsychotic), but in my layman's opinion, doctors are way too quick to prescribe it to people who only want treatment for insomnia, not something like schizophrenia or schizoaffective. In general, the atypical antipsychotics have a whole host of nasty side effects, and I was very happy to get off of it.
Again, IANAD, IANYD, but I think it's okay to be assertive about this kind of thing if you do want to explore the med route. Obviously it's trickier if you're being assertive about wanting things with recreational value, but the clonidine I recommended above does not fit that at all, and there are other similar meds like guanfacine or beta blockers (different target receptors, but similar in that they originally were intended as blood pressure meds, and don't have addictive/recreational potential).
Oh, and fwiw, I do take a stimulant medication to treat ADHD (Vyvanse). I'll nth that if you take a stimulant, that could be affecting your sleep as well.
I just noticed upon re-reading your question that you mentioned getting a good night's sleep with Nyquil. If you are ever really desperate for a good night's sleep, you might try taking doxylamine succinate which is the sedating anti-histamine in regular nyquil (or at least it used to be). It's similar to benadryl (diphenhydramine), but more sedating and a somewhat less effective antihistamine, which is why it's usually sold only for it's sleep properties, not as an antihistamine. You can usually find it sold under the unisom brand, but just check to make sure that the sleeping tablets do say doxylamine succinate because they also make ones with diphenhydramine. For whatever reason, benadryl doesn't help me sleep that well and it leaves me really hungover, but doxylamine succinate helps me sleep soundly and doesn't make me feel hungover the next day.
With that being said, two things to keep in mind: If you do take any prescription meds, then I would check with your prescribing physician before taking any of these over sleep the counter meds. Also, I would make sure to avoid taking doxylamine succinate with any kind of regularity. It can cause re-bound insomnia, and you can build up a tolerance. (A long time ago, I was trying to get off ambien, so I took doxylamine every night for 3 months straight, and went from 25 mg per night to about 200 mg per night by the end, which is way above the recommended dose, and it was not a smart thing to do, so please learn from my poor decision making.)
posted by litera scripta manet at 12:54 PM on September 22, 2015
Wearers of blue light blocking glasses, are you talking about something like this?
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 3:17 PM on September 22, 2015
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 3:17 PM on September 22, 2015
Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons yeah, that's what I wear. They aren't super comfortable and I'm sure the kitties are judging me but they do help.
posted by kitten magic at 5:12 PM on September 22, 2015
posted by kitten magic at 5:12 PM on September 22, 2015
In answer to one part of your question, if it makes you feel better to have solidarity-- yes, this is totally a huge struggle! When I'm on my meds I can't sleep because of adderall, and when I'm off my meds I can't sleep because of ADD. womp womp
posted by threeants at 7:24 PM on September 22, 2015
posted by threeants at 7:24 PM on September 22, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by griphus at 6:59 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]