am I sexist for wanting a lady cleaner?

September 16, 2015 1:46 PM

I have employed a cleaner on and off or the last few years, but am now at a stage where I'm deciding to commit to a fortnightly clean as work responsibilities ramp up. The cleaning agency I use has sent me a male cleaner to be my new regular, the first I've ever encountered. I am having a strange reaction that I'm trying to reconcile myself with and need a little help to differentiate the crazies. Details after the jump...

I'm a single lady, 30, living alone (and mostly working) at home. He is a lovely earnest Spanish man in his forties or fifties. I have always had lady cleaners and have not even considered the possibility of a male cleaner. I consider myself a modern progressive independent career-minded forward-thinking woman who has no serious gender hangups, so why am I having the spaz out about this? ... When I think about it there are a whole welter of issues....

1) I'm well off and in an extremely well-paying job, and have a lovely house to go with it, and I'm barely in my thirties. I have always suffered from some liberal guilt about employing my past cleaners, whom I have talked to and discovered they are often well-educated enterprising women from eastern Europe or Africa who are out of employment luck in a screwed up European economy, so there's the highly unbalanced living/economic status kind of guilt.

2) Then there's the sexual discomfort - he was perfectly nice and is a relatively attractive man, and while I'm not attracted to him I felt that he was somewhat attracted to me. No creepy predator vibes and nothing said directly, just general "you are pretty" tension vibes. So there's that.

3) I kind of feel deeply uncomfortable with a male stranger coming into my house every two weeks at all, let alone one who is there to clean my lady things. Some stupid primal part of me feels unsafe even though he has given me absolutely no reason to think he will come in and beat me, rape me and steal all my things. The agency vets all their cleaners male and female, etc. This part is surely definitely crazy talking.

4) And then in among all this is the surprising (to me) discomfort I have with the very idea of a male cleaner. I can't seem to distinguish that discomfort from all these other discomforts, but I kind of want to isolate it, because it is a discomfort that I don't want to have ... Two reasons for this. One is that the feminist in me rebels at the idea that cleaning is women's work, and sticks out her chin pugnaciously at me and says "why shouldn't there be male cleaners?" The second is that I feel on some level that I have spent so much time advocating for equality in the workplace in my own career that it's just horrific to me to call up the agency to say "look, I don't want a male cleaner", like some Mad-Man-esque scenario in which a company rings up the advertising agency saying "look, I don't want Peggy...I want Don." But I really can't separate out all these discomforts - what's reasonable for me as a customer to want from someone I am employing, and what is just plain Victorian...?

I've got myself up in a twist about all this. At the moment my decision is to stick it out just so I can stick it to myself about all these irrational discomforts, and chalk one up for modern progressive society however uncomfortable it makes me feel... Please help me see sense. Am I sexist for wanting a lady cleaner?

posted by starcrust to Grab Bag (51 answers total)

Best answer: I see nothing to feel guilty abut since what you seem to find a possible issue is the man--woman thing rather than a man's inability to clean as well as you would like.
posted by Postroad at 1:50 PM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]

Leaving aside the question of whether it can sexist to privilege someone from the subordinated gender... (and I think there are more questions here about the intersections of gender with race, ethnicity and class that are making you anxious to be honest)...No, you're not sexist for wanting a woman cleaner, because this is an intimate relation that requires you to be comfortable -- the cleaner is in your home, alone with you or alone when you're not there, handling your stuff. For the same reason it's not sexist to want a female gynecologist. You don't have to think a male doctor is going to rape you to prefer a female doctor. Your home, in many ways, is like an extension of your body and your visceral comfort in who is invited to be part of it matters.
posted by flourpot at 1:53 PM on September 16, 2015 [18 favorites]

I have a male cleaner and have for the last 18 years. He's great. My best friend has a male cleaner (different one) and is also quite pleased. I'm not certain where your hang ups are stemming from, but from my experience they aren't valid. He needs a job just like anyone else.
posted by cecic at 1:55 PM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]

Best answer: 1 - I'd say so long as you are paying a fair wage and treating them respectfully, let the economic guilt thing go. It seems to me that they need work and you can offer them work. You aren't in a position to hire them in whatever specialty they may be educated but they are in a bad spot and need work. You are giving them work and income.

2 & 3 - Please, please, please don't call this crazy talking. This is basic instinctual self-preservation and should be respected. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Great that you are thinking about how you think and how you operate in the world but way too many women write off their instinct about reading other people. Just because you think you should be progressive and treat everyone equally doesn't mean you have to feel okay with a strange man in your home.

4 - I suspect that this is more "stranger in my home" than "men shouldn't be housekeepers". I mean, presumably you are okay with the idea of a male janitor? That's just a housekeeper in an office building.
posted by Beti at 1:59 PM on September 16, 2015 [7 favorites]

As a woman, I don't see anything wrong with this. We are physically, often, very vulnerable. I get it.

I also get it as someone who once sent a very reliable older male service person to a young woman's home to do repairs, he ended up inappropriately contacting her outside of the professional context of their interactions. It turned creepy.

That's just reality. If this is untenable for you, it is entirely understandable. You pay for the service, find someone you are 100% comfortable with!!


- It's inappropriate he gave you the "you're pretty" vibe. that reminded me of that other incident, hence why I mentioned it. FWIW.
posted by jbenben at 1:59 PM on September 16, 2015 [14 favorites]

Would you be uncomfortable with a male handyman working the same hours, fixing things around your home?

Would you be uncomfortable if THIS particular male was a handyman and not a cleaner?

If the tension weren't there, would you still be uncomfortable?

Will resolving this in your head make the feeling in your gut go away?


Maybe, maybe not. The bottom line is everyone deserves to be comfortable in their own home. There may be hints of sexism coloring this, but even if there is, hey, you're aware of it. Now, is it worth the stress of bearing the situation because it's the "right" thing to do?
posted by Syllables at 2:01 PM on September 16, 2015 [24 favorites]

i am not sure you/i/we can give an absolute answer to this.

here's a possible solution that is more relative - how flexible and forgiving are you in judging other people over the various isms involved here (it sounds to me, too, to be more than just sex)? if you're generally ready to condemn others for this kind of thing, then yes, within your frame of values, you're being ist. but, if, on the other hand, you generally give people the benefit of the doubt, understand that there are complexities, that labels like sexist are complex, and difficult to be sure of, then fine - it's cool.

in other words, as the range of answers here shows, it may be easier to measure whether you are consistent (or hypocritical), than to decide whether you're being sexist / racist / classist.
posted by andrewcooke at 2:02 PM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]

Obviously there is a sexist element to you wanting a "lady" cleaner (you state as much in your question), but I don't think this is something worth twisting yourself in knots over. Life is too short to make such a big deal out such an absurdly first-world problem. Just get the cleaner you are most comfortable with.
posted by cakelite at 2:07 PM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]

Trust your gut. If you're not comfortable with a male cleaner, that is fine. Plenty of women prefer female gynecologists or therapists or other providers of invasive services and it doesn't make them bad sexist people.
posted by joan_holloway at 2:07 PM on September 16, 2015 [10 favorites]

I would try to think more about if it's the idea of male cleaners in general or if it's this particular guy that's freaking you out. Be really clear with yourself which one it is. If this guy is creeping you out, don't hesitate to get rid of him. If it's just, oh this is a new idea, you could give him a few weeks to get used to it, to broaden your mental horizons. But you don't owe this guy anything - it's your home, any decision you make should be purely selfish in this situation.
posted by bleep at 2:10 PM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]

Treating someone differently based on their gender is the very definition of sexist. So yes, you're being sexist.

The ultimate question is whether you're comfortable with being sexist. It's easy to tell other people what to do, but when the elephant sits down on your own sofa, it changes things. Nobody is perfect, and sometimes, you (not you specifically, but people in general) have to face the fact that you're not as good a person as you think you are.

Get the person you're most comfortable with.
posted by Solomon at 2:11 PM on September 16, 2015 [7 favorites]

Yes it's definitively sexist to not like the 'idea' of a male cleaner.

But would you rather be a little sexist or quite uncomfortable? That's really the decision you are making.
posted by French Fry at 2:14 PM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]

It is possible that your general response to male cleaners is sexist, yet your specific response to having a man work in your home is not (see: Shroedinger's Rapist). You could work out the whatever problem you have that makes you reject the idea of male cleaners and still not want a man working for you in your home.

My catholic grandfather once said that he could never imagine having to confess to a female priest. He had a really visceral "ewwww" reaction. I was indignant of course, (and it ties in to him being a horrible person for other reasons) but you know, I wouldn't think it a good idea for him to go to a female priest even if they existed! Sure he was wrong and sexist. But if he's that uncomfortable with it, their transaction would fail to work.

Today, I talked to a couple that organises sex toy parties as a MLM thing. They have 250 people working for them in three levels. Only two of these are men, both gay, they stressed. Because their female customers don't want a hetero man sitting in their living room showing them sex toys.

So yeah, comfort levels matter where intimacy is involved. Don't sacrifice your feelings of comfort and safety in your own home, but do continue working out where your general problem is with male cleaners.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:17 PM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]

Something about the way you're describing the people hired to clean your house rubs me the wrong way. If you don't feel comfortable with a male cleaner, you need to ask for a female cleaner. Maybe it's sexist to request that, but you need to do what makes you comfortable.

You don't need to pity people and the work they do, though. No need to call people "well-educated" or "enterprising" or "earnest" or "lovely." Your description of them reads extremely patronizing.
posted by Lingasol at 2:21 PM on September 16, 2015 [8 favorites]

Maybe, but not necessarily. He may see a well off woman as a way to improve his financial situation and figure it's worth the risk because, hey, he won't need a job if he can get you to support him. He made you uncomfortable, just say you would prefer a female cleaner, you don't need a reason,. You are paying them to make your life more comfortable not less. He's trying to force you into a social contract to make his life easier and even if it's just to get a bigger tip, it's going to make you dread the days you get your home cleaned.
posted by BoscosMom at 2:23 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

I think it's the "you're pretty" vibe that has you kind of freaking out. And it's weird when men do this. I never feel comfortable having handymen types in my home when I'm alone. They do this kind of thing too.And someone cleaning your place, moving room to room for an hour or so?

I used to designate older men to the kindly older grandfather/gentleman who knows appropriate boundaries, thinks of me like his daughter, etc. until these guys started being more inappropriate than not.

Also, think about this: The cleaning woman has a safe place to work when she has you as a client. I'll bet you that any cleaning woman has to routinely fend off inappropriate behavior from her other clients.
posted by discopolo at 2:28 PM on September 16, 2015 [19 favorites]

Best answer: Housecleaning is a surprisingly intimate service. When I first started getting my house cleaned, I realized my cleaner has very intimate knowledge of my life. She knows what's in my sex toy drawer. She knows when I'm on a diet even if I don't tell her, as she sometimes brings it up.
Intimate services like doctors and body workers are used to some clients specifying a male or female professional.
The federal Fair Housing Act has an interesting exception to its nondiscriminatory leasing requirements. The Mrs Murphy exception allows owner occupants to discriminate on protected classes in some cases. It was designed so a little old lady in a duplex could turn down male renters in favor of female renters to make sure Mrs Murphy felt safe with her tenants.

So intimate situations with our homes and bodies can call for an extra layer of thought.

Not sure if this situation should leave you labeling yourself a sexist, but it's a pretty common human desire for a same-gender situation when it comes to our bodies and our homes.
posted by littlewater at 2:30 PM on September 16, 2015 [7 favorites]

i do think the question of if the person was in your home for the same amount of time doing a job most think of as masculine, would you be freaked out? would you request a female handyman? if not, then i do think you need to think about your own biases and expectations. but you should have whatever cleaner makes you feel comfortable. none of us can tell you what choice to make here.
posted by nadawi at 2:37 PM on September 16, 2015 [11 favorites]

Best answer: I kind of feel deeply uncomfortable with a male stranger coming into my house every two weeks at all, let alone one who is there to clean my lady things.

This is a perfectly normal, justifiable reaction and one I would have myself. So no, I don't think you're being sexist to value your own comfort over some abstract notion of equality.
posted by Tamanna at 2:41 PM on September 16, 2015 [8 favorites]

Best answer: I don't think it's sexist. I also think it will probably be OK. So it's up to you.

The reason I don't think it's sexist is because more times than I can count on one hand, I've had a male cleaner/janitor/handyman/maintenance worker in my personal space (apartment or bedroom) and they have made inappropriate overtures (calling me some cute little sexist/sexual epithet, getting too friendly/suggestive, straight up sexual harassment, etc.).

I don't think that means there aren't good male cleaners out there, or that you need a lady because a man will never make you feel comfortable-- I just don't think this man is making you feel comfortable, and it sounds like he's not being professional. (Giving you "you're pretty" vibes is not professional.) Your bad experience with this guy is making you feel awkward, not the "idea" of a male cleaner.

I also think, fundamentally, a woman requesting a woman for relatively "intimate" services (gynecology, massage, housecleaning, etc.) is not sexist, because women usually want someone who will not behave in a sexist fashion toward them. It's not sexist to not... want to be the victim of sexism. I mean, e.g., if there is a woman's shuttle to protect women from being groped and harassed by men, I'm not prepared to called that sexist.

I understand how it's different with men in female-dominated industries (like teaching), but in general men who work in female-dominated industries are promoted faster, earn more, garner more respect, etc. These might not apply to this industry, but it's is really really really impossibly difficult for women to be "sexist" toward men in a way that functionally or systematically disadvantages them. There are other people who will want this male cleaner and even say he's better than female cleaners because this that and the other thing.

One thing to consider is that no one is biased against men as janitors. In fact, the opposite is true. In most cases, there's no reason that commercial cleaning is too physical for a woman, while household cleaning is not. (Having done both, they both suck.) But the personal aspect here is up to you.
posted by easter queen at 2:45 PM on September 16, 2015 [12 favorites]

If you don't worry about your plumber or cable repair person being male, or thinking you're pretty, then, yes, you are having sexist feelings, maybe mixed up with some class perceptions. Good opportunity for self-examination and maybe growth.
posted by gingerest at 2:46 PM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]

You know, come to think of it, I'd hire female plumbers and cable repair people, too. The only reason I feel "comfortable" with men in those roles (and by comfortable I mean, not, but powering through it) is that we're conditioned to think it will almost always be a man (and then men are better at or have to do those jobs).

So that's another way of thinking about it. Would you preferentially hire a female plumber/cable repair/whatever person? Or is this just about the cleaner role?
posted by easter queen at 2:49 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

Regardless of whether anyone says 'individually sexist' in some way, it is not part of the systemic sexism that negatively impacts society. Do what makes you feel comfortable and safe.
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:51 PM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]

Best answer: Coming back to say, if they had sent a man who obviously had no interest in you as a woman or an obviously gay man who said: "Way to rock that hair cut girlfriend." would you have been uncomfortable? Probably not. I don't think it's his gender you are reacting to, it's just that it's usually men who push these kind of boundaries.
posted by BoscosMom at 2:53 PM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]

Mod note: Folks, please remember this is Ask and not a free-form debate spot; focus on answering the question and don't get into a meta-conversation about this stuff.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:59 PM on September 16, 2015

My advice would be that instead of going through an agency, you should form a one-to-one relationship with a housekeeper/cleaner that you employ directly. That way you have personal knowledge of whom you are bringing into your home to clean.
posted by deanc at 3:07 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yes you have a right to be comfortable in your home, but I think you also have an obligation to combat discomfort in the pursuit of equality.

Your discomfort at having an unknown man in your home is of course fair. Rather than being driven by fear, perhaps you can call your agency and ask if they perform criminal background checks on their employees.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:22 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Your #2 is enough all by itself: the man --- your employee! --- is making comments on your looks? As others say, trust your gut on this and find another cleaner.

Don't keep giving access to your home to someone who makes you uncomfortable. Screw liberal guilt and worries about what other people will think; don't keep this man as your cleaner just to what, prove you aren't sexist? You are already feeling uncomfortable around him, and that feeling will only increase.
posted by easily confused at 4:12 PM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]

Just call the agency and explain it had never occurred to you, sad though that may be, that they would send a male cleaner, otherwise you'd have explicitly requested a female. Very sorry about that, the gentleman they sent was lovely and no complaints bout him but you'd prefer a female going forward. You're not the first person to make that call.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:19 PM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]

Note: No creepy predator vibes and nothing said directly, just general "you are pretty" tension vibes. So there's that.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:19 PM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]

My milkman, back when I could afford it, had a key to my house and would put my delivery in the fridge. If I forgot to place an order, he'd guess, based on my past ordering history. This usually involved lots of tasty artisanal bacon. Not gonna lie, it was really weird for me to have some random guy come into my house every Tuesday, especially when I had the day off and was still asleep when he did so. But, bacon. He saw my house at its worst. I'd often think that I needed to clean the day before, but I got over that right quick. So, different circumstances, but still a strange man in my house. But it touches on your third point. As a woman, I automatically felt defensive. Fortunately, he proved to be trustworthy, and I consumed a lot of bacon and local milk and cheese for it. But if you can't get over it, you can't get over it, so request a woman.
posted by Ruki at 4:42 PM on September 16, 2015

Best answer: "1) I'm well off and in an extremely well-paying job, and have a lovely house to go with it, and I'm barely in my thirties. I have always suffered from some liberal guilt about employing my past cleaners, whom I have talked to and discovered they are often well-educated enterprising women from eastern Europe or Africa who are out of employment luck in a screwed up European economy, so there's the highly unbalanced living/economic status kind of guilt."

If you can see into the future, know that you will never be down on your employment luck no matter what, and will never be seeking cleaning work or anything comparable because the circumstances in which you might need it will never ever arise - or, more importantly, you would want to be turned down for such work if you were ever desperate enough to seek it - then you are right that you shouldn't employ a cleaner. But, if you could imagine however hypothetically that you could ever be in need of that kind of work and would want someone to hire you if you were - then you should continue to employ a cleaner according to your need. Golden rule and all that.

As to whether it is sexist to prefer a woman cleaner, I would say that sexist or not it is making you feel unsafe, and talking themselves out of the feeling of being unsafe is the classic way that women's vulnerability is increased. If you ignore your feelings of unsafety you will therefore be turning the sexism against yourself, which has the virtue of being self-sacrificing or would if self-sacrifice were a feminist virtue, which it is not. You see here that this is a veritable Gordian knot of unrighteousness, which will continue to pay guilt dividends for years to come no matter what you decide.

There is none that is righteous, not even one; all have sinned. You can't win, therefore you should feel free to ask for a woman cleaner.
posted by tel3path at 4:43 PM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]

If people reject male cleaners, then cleaning will remain "women's work," and it will remain underpaid and un-respected and generally not seen as a serious profession. When pink-collar work becomes more gender integrated, that helps women just as much as when blue-collar work becomes more gender integrated.

Do whatever you want. But I do think that if you reject this man, who by your own account has done nothing wrong, you have to grapple with the fact that you are contributing to a system in which cleaning is "women's work," and that hurts women just as much, if not more, than it hurts the men who end up pushed out of the profession. If you're okay with that, then fire him. If you are not okay with that, then work to remedy the thoughts and feelings you are having that are making you hesitate.
posted by decathecting at 4:45 PM on September 16, 2015 [23 favorites]

Fire him or not, your choice, and you shouldn't feel terribly bad about it either way. When it comes to people you let in your house unsupervised, your comfort is paramount and need not be entirely based on reason.

However, you do sound like the sort of person who would feel guilty over rejecting someone with no rational basis. Therefore, examine your discomfort. Are you mistaking excessive deference, which he may be displaying in an attempt to make you feel comfortable, with attraction? If he's staring at you longingly, that is creepy. If he is avoiding eye contact to try to seem submissive and nonthreatening, on the other hand, that is less so, despite being possible to interpret as being unable to look at you for fear of being aroused.
posted by wierdo at 5:21 PM on September 16, 2015

For me, the most telling part in terms of trying to sort out whether or not this is sexism, is that you don't just want to fire him - you want to fire him and replace him specifically with a woman.

That suggests to me that the sexism component is, at the minimum, a sizable part of your thought process here. If, as others have mentioned above, you are okay with a male plumber in your house, then you really should not fire this dude simply for being a male doing a traditionally female job.
posted by zug at 5:22 PM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]

I had a female cab driver once. She couldn't have been over 25 and was dressed up and wearing makeup. I found it deeply unsettling - not just that she was a young woman in a totally unexpected context, but that I didn't know quite what to expect. Would she lift up my very heavy suitcase on her own? Would she think I was hitting on her by trying to make polite conversion? What if I tip her too much or too little?

But I got over it and so should you, because it's the right thing to do.
posted by miyabo at 6:06 PM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]

He gave you the heebie jeebies. If a woman gave you the heebie jeebies what would you do? You're not going to call the agency and say 'I don't know, I just don't feel right about her. Can you send someone else?' I think what you say is 'great worker, I liked him a lot, just not quite a good match' and refuse to elaborate in any other way, because you can't, anyway--you can't quite elaborate that you felt a leer? maybe? or maybe just that you don't want some guy emptying your wastebasket filled with tampons.

I don't think there is anything remotely wrong with having gender specific requirements for hiring certain people on an individual basis. This is not corporate. This is do I want a male gynecologist? Female therapist? I absolutely can choose not to get my pap smears from a guy (I don't for the record) but for years I wouldn't have a male doctor. It's an intimate thing. My ex-husband couldn't handle male therapists. He absolutely had to see a woman. As a private person, I think that's his right.

But most importantly, honestly, it sounds like he gave you the creeps. Independent of his genitals, that specific guy gave you the specific creeps. They can send someone else.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:13 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

To what ever you need to do in order to feel comfortable and safe. If it were me, I might do a trial thing with this guy and have him come clean two more times to see if I'm still getting that vibe. It's important to trust your gut; guy feelings aren't always articulate but they are important. If you're getting (or keep getting) a vibe that's odd you need to pay attention. In the book the gift of fear, that's the single most important lesson. Talking yourself out of your gut feelings may put you in danger.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:13 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

It sounds more like you're uncomfortable with him reasonably because he's given you creepy vibes, and you're not sure if it's a gender thing or individual. Call the agency and say that you'd like to change cleaners, and that it's not personal or gender based, but you just don't want to continue with him. None of your specific discomfort is about gender but about this specific guy being creepy. Sometimes people are creepy! You are very likely to wind up with a female cleaner again, or you may get a dude who is non-creepy. I've had both for cleaners, and definitely it is possible to have male cleaners who are non-creepy. I think it's just that there are statistically a lot of creepy dudes, and a creepy woman cleaner is not going to bother hitting on a straight female employer (she will just nick your stuff or do a bad job etc).

Chalk it up to a bad fit, not a gender pattern yet. But definitely reassign.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:14 PM on September 16, 2015

Best answer: FWIW I'd question the idea of whether you're comfortable with a male cleaner or female cleaner. You might have gotten a different guy some other day that you felt totally chill with. Not this guy, though. If you felt there was a fluttering of subtext--fuck that. You're not wrong. You weren't hallucinating. There was a thing in the air. You don't want that thing in the air when all you're trying to do is get your bathroom cleaned. If they send another guy and he seems fine and you like him, swell. If they send a woman, fine. But I think it's more specific than you're assuming -- I think you didn't like *this* guy and it's making you wonder whether any guy would be appropriate. It's possible this isn't like my twenty year old self refusing male gynecologist or my ex-husband refusing female therapists--it's possible you're trying to create a blanket opinion from the fact that you weren't cool with this guy.

You don't need any excuse to be not cool with anyone in your home, ever. It is your home.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:22 PM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]

Best answer: I've had cleaners for years, from an agency I have a good relationship with. From time to time, they change up the cleaner they send me. I have requested change of cleaners for several reasons, but also including the two below:

- I wasn't comfortable with THAT male cleaner (the vibes)
- I wasn't comfortable with THAT female cleaner (the vibes)

Learn to trust your gut. I have had both male and female cleaners, and I don't really mind either in terms of the job they do. However, if asked, I will say I prefer female cleaners. Not because they do a better job, but because I am a single female living alone and would prefer the following:

- Random male not looking into my drawers of lady things
- Random male who has access to my home
- Random male whom I don't know that I may have to be alone in my home with

The above makes me feel a little vulnerable, not a lot. But enough to say that I don't want to feel like that on a fortnightly basis in my own home. Additionally, I would take the same precautions to not be alone with a random male in any isolated place where I could be cornered. When a handyman comes to my house, if not referred and a stranger to me, I DO ensure I keep a side/backdoor open, and I do also ensure a friend knows that I have someone coming to the house.

Call me crazy, oversensitive, or whatever you want - I don't like feeling vulnerable at all. I take pains to minimise when I feel vulnerable, because I don't enjoy the heightened heart rate, the intrusive "what if" thoughts. I'm not going to apologise for it given the rate of women who are attacked by men or predated on by men.

Disclaimer: I am woman who has several male friends, work in a male-dominated industry, manage male staff and am comfortable with most men. I only take these precautions when it comes to RANDOM males, or males that give me the vibes, in enclosed or personal spaces.

Don't apologise, and ask for what makes you comfortable. You're not being sexist, you're listening to your gut about THIS GUY.
posted by shazzam! at 6:35 PM on September 16, 2015 [7 favorites]

You will always be an -ist. I will be an -ist. Everyone will be an -ist at some point. 'Isms' include sexism, ageism, classism, ableism, ex-convict-ism, past schizophrenic-ism, homeless person-ism. Add anything you want. Somewhere, someone will discriminate or be discriminated upon because they don't share a certain characteristic with the discriminator/ee.

Every day you will do a wrong. Some will be out of malice, some will be out of self protection, some will be out of ignorance. This is you protecting yourself. This is a good thing.

Request a lady cleaner. Donate $10 to a homeless person who needs it more than a lot of people, and is discriminated against everyday. You will have done the world a net positive.
posted by kinoeye at 7:15 PM on September 16, 2015

Best answer: You need to feel comfortable in your home. Period. End of story. No amount of worrying about -isms trumps that. I am a woman who works in a male-dominated field and very rarely feels uncomfortable with men in my home, but if I got a creepy vibe I would have called the agency immediately. "This man has done an excellent job cleaning and I find no faults with his work but I would prefer if you assigned me a female regular." Done.
posted by skyl1n3 at 7:43 PM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]

Best answer: oh, my God. Just call them and say "he did a fine job but I'd prefer a female cleaner, I'm not comfortable with a man in my house." This is TOTALLY 100% FINE.

And trust your gut, about this, and everything that involves dudes in your space. I'm not saying this particular guy has any harmful intentions towards you whatsoever. But guilting women into politely ignoring their instincts is exactly how many male assailants get access to their victims.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:47 PM on September 16, 2015 [15 favorites]

Best answer: If people reject male cleaners, then cleaning will remain "women's work," and it will remain underpaid and un-respected and generally not seen as a serious profession.

No, this is backwards. If a profession is female dominated and that results it in being underpaid and un-respected, the solution is not to give more men jobs. The solution is to effect change in society such that just because something is female dominated doesn't immediately lead to it being devalued and disrespected.
posted by telegraph at 8:03 PM on September 16, 2015 [16 favorites]

Yeah, it's not been my experience that men in female dominated professions "lift all boats." Women stay the same and men are more readily given greater pay and leadership in those fields.

I looked for quite awhile for an independent house cleaner and finally got a good recommendation. I've recommended her to friends and am happy to see her business grow. I'm pleased to be her client and comfortable with her in my home.

I agree with those above - you have a bad gut feeling. Go with it. Request someone else and go ahead and ask for a woman if you think that would make you more comfortable. I don't think your choice here makes you sexist at all, actually.
posted by amanda at 8:26 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Look, you have to factor in that women who are victims of male-perpetrated crimes are still blamed for "not knowing better." If something does happen, you can bet your boots people will blame You for letting a man who told her she was pretty into her home. There would be a lot of "OP should have known better!" And "what was op doing hanging around her house in yoga pants in her house with a man there?" And the inevitable "Well, she did this or that so of course this guy thought she wanted him." And the old "Well, what did she expect?"

You can see Bill Cosby's deposition transcripts for this kind of "I'm a man who knows how to interpret when women want me"--- many, many guys are basically either clueless or willfully ignorant or just plain evil and it's hard to discern. They will try to insist that you started it or gave them a non-existent signal.

It's not safe, especially if you feel unsafe. You must must must take care of yourself and listen to yourself before anyone else. You do not deserve to feel unsafe in your own home.
posted by discopolo at 9:14 PM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: Thank you, everyone, for this wide range of thoughtful input. I've decided to get a female cleaner. The things that swung it for me (and I've marked as "best answer" the things which resonated, though really everything here helped me incrementally refine my thoughts) are:

1) housecleaning, you have helped me realize, is much more like gynaecologist than plumber or cable guy (gal?). It's regular (not one off 'problem fixing' but constant relationship) and very personal (littlewater put it well). Milkman (milkperson?) is regular, but s/he's not hanging around for two hours going through my stuff. So, for me, "idea of a male cleaner" is much more like "idea of a male doing my pap smear", and less "Peggy vs Don", than I think I recognized.

2) relatedly, what made me recognize the specificity of housecleaning is that I know I would be happy with a female handyman, female plumber etc. in my house. I have had many women cab drivers. I don't feel unsafe with them, and I don't think their gender prevents them from doing the job well (which is not anyway what my concern was with my male cleaner - I'm sure he's a much better cleaner than I am!) I also realize that I have never felt uneasy with a female cab driver, but with a male cab driver, particularly back in my slightly unsafe home country, I always have one eye on the door (and have, in fact, on one terrifying occasion had to dive out the back door at a traffic light and run away as fast as I could - long story). Not convinced this makes me sexist, and maybe housekeeping is on that end of the spectrum.

3) this could lead to me feeling bad about cleaning remaining women's work. But telegraph really put me straight on this one. And I do not object to male cleaners, e.g. male janitors - just random men in my house.

4) I think on reflection that I am more unsettled about this particular guy than I thought. Thinking about it, I realized that my experience of male housekeepers is not actually completely unprecedented. I have a friend who's had male cleaners I've interacted with: a young gay guy in this twenties with the most fabulously disapproving glare to unwashed dishes I'd ever seen. And...I only just remembered...I have myself, some years ago, had an agency send me a man-and-wife cleaning team! I did not even think twice about that guy with his wife, and apparently it was so unexceptional that I completely forgot about it until now. So I think my discomfort is really with not feeling comfortable about this guy being alone with alone-me, slouching around in my house in yoga pants and having this guy going through my lady drawers.

5) I will try to stop with the misplaced liberal guilt, and apologize for any offense given. absurdly first world problem: guilty as charged.

Thank you all, once again.
posted by starcrust at 12:22 AM on September 17, 2015 [9 favorites]

To answer your question, yes you are sexist for preferring a cleaning lady when a cleaning lad can perfectly do the job.

However, being prejudiced is allowed and you are totally free to want to be comfortable in your own house.
posted by Kwadeng at 3:57 AM on September 17, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah no I would not let a strange guy (especially a strange guy who gave me the TINIEST of uncomfortable vibes) have keys to my house.
posted by you're a kitty! at 1:06 PM on September 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

I am a female cleaner, also an office assistant. My employer is a female businesswoman. I clean for her roughly every fortnight, with occasional bumps due to her travels or my health. My monthly income is roughly 7% of hers, give or take. She's renting a beautiful 5 bed, 2.5 bath house with her 3 kids, for about 4x my monthly wages. I live in a 90 sq ft room with my best friend's family because my health has become incredibly screwed up.

I don't think she has any kind of unbalanced economic status kind of guilt. She worries about money constantly; I don't, because I already know there isn't any. No sexual discomfort on either part, as we're both heterosexual.

The stranger in the house thing... There's the rub. When I first started working for her, she'd stay in the room in which I was working. The whole time. Then it was half-hourly check-ins. Hourly check-ins. Every few hours. After several months, she was fine with leaving the house while I was working. I'd worked for her over two years before I got a key, and that happened primarily on a child-care argument. She was out of town on business and asked me to be at her house at a certain time so her 9 year old daughter wouldn't be home alone. The spare key hidden away for the doorknob was there, but the previous night's childminder had locked the deadbolt. My employer had to call a locksmith and pay nearly $100 to get me in the house. I mentioned to her after she was home that if I had a key, we wouldn't have to worry about it ever again. She had a new deadbolt installed a few days later. One key was hidden away. Two copies were made: one for her dad, and one for me.

Even in a business relationship without any kind of sexual discomfort or tension or vibes, it can take a while to earn some trust. When I was first cleaning for her, she'd make sure to pick up and put away all kinds of things. All. Kinds. Nowadays, her underwear's all over the bathroom floor, and I know where the sex toys, the naughty pictures, and the bottles of liquor are hiding from her kids. The bottom line is, do what's comfortable for you.
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 9:41 PM on September 19, 2015 [3 favorites]