Can I tell someone who is on the spectrum that he's on the spectrum?
September 16, 2015 1:30 PM Subscribe
I have a former co-worker who I am convinced is on the autism spectrum. He is middle-aged, and I believe he is completely unaware of the cause of his unusual attitudes and behaviors. He has moved on to another employer but I remain in contact with him. I believe I could potentially do him a life-altering favor by expressing my opinion and suggesting he seek some help. Is it reasonable to do this and expect him to understand what I'm saying? Additional complication: I used to be his manager. Since I am no longer, I don't think there would be any legal or other potential issues, but please speak up if you disagree. Thanks!
I would not say anything unless directly asked about why he isn't doing well. While some people respond well to unsolicited advice, a vast majority of people do not. If he truly is on the spectrum, it may not be received well.
If he asks you directly about why you think he is not doing well, then you can say something vague until he presses. I would be livid if a coworker, and particularly a former manager, suggested I had a mental illness/disorder that was negatively impacting my work relationships, particularly if this was not my assessment of the situation.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 1:35 PM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
If he asks you directly about why you think he is not doing well, then you can say something vague until he presses. I would be livid if a coworker, and particularly a former manager, suggested I had a mental illness/disorder that was negatively impacting my work relationships, particularly if this was not my assessment of the situation.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 1:35 PM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
Is he regularly coming to you with problems that are being caused by his "unusual attitudes and behaviors"? That is the only scenario I can really see where suggesting such a thing would be considered or welcome considering the nature of your relationship. I mean even then it's far from the best thing to say, but at least in that context it's not a completely unwarranted remark you'd be making.
posted by griphus at 1:37 PM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by griphus at 1:37 PM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
There are two situations in which your comments would be appropriate: if you are his healthcare professional, or if he asks you "do you think I could possibly be autistic?"
It doesn't look like you are in one of those acceptable situations.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:44 PM on September 16, 2015 [26 favorites]
It doesn't look like you are in one of those acceptable situations.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:44 PM on September 16, 2015 [26 favorites]
Christ no you shouldn't do this.
posted by Sternmeyer at 1:46 PM on September 16, 2015 [25 favorites]
posted by Sternmeyer at 1:46 PM on September 16, 2015 [25 favorites]
I am on the spectrum. I would be horrified if you did this. He also might well be aware that he might be on the spectrum. Maybe he has even been diagnosed.
posted by frantumaglia at 1:47 PM on September 16, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by frantumaglia at 1:47 PM on September 16, 2015 [13 favorites]
Leave him alone. There is no "help". He has an unusual personality that has now been named as a disease. He doe not need you adding to his problems. You are not his doctor.
posted by mermayd at 1:55 PM on September 16, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by mermayd at 1:55 PM on September 16, 2015 [11 favorites]
Can I tell someone who is on the spectrum that he's on the spectrum?
Are you his psychologist or psychiatrist?
If the answer to that question is "no," the answer to your question is "fuck, no."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:15 PM on September 16, 2015 [9 favorites]
Are you his psychologist or psychiatrist?
If the answer to that question is "no," the answer to your question is "fuck, no."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:15 PM on September 16, 2015 [9 favorites]
*IF* he has told you he is frustrated/upset/stressed by his circumstances *AND* you know he hasn't done so already, I think it's fair to broadly suggest he consider pursuing therapy. Middle aged men, especially, don't receive that suggestion as often as they maybe should.
posted by gnomeloaf at 2:24 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by gnomeloaf at 2:24 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
...I am convinced is on the autism spectrum
Here's the thing: Unless you're a doctor or an autism specialist, that ain't worth jack.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 2:35 PM on September 16, 2015 [12 favorites]
Here's the thing: Unless you're a doctor or an autism specialist, that ain't worth jack.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 2:35 PM on September 16, 2015 [12 favorites]
I'm on the spectrum. Before I was diagnosed as such, I was hurt when a colleague, the mother of a boy with Asperger's, suggested I might be. I didn't follow it up. Now that I know, comments of that type remind me that I don't pass for neurotypical, and I spend the next 3 months increasing my decoding strategies which is incredibly draining.
However, finding out that I am on the spectrum has been life changing and in many ways a huge relief. Maybe if it comes up naturally in conversation, you could share the experiences of your friends with ASD and what they have found helpful.
I have a charming friend who describes us both as Aspie and he says being on the spectrum is not a disorder, that we're advanced evolutionarily with mild superpowers and all the hassle about this stuff is the normals who want us to behave illogically (like them) without sharing their rule book. I like the way he thinks because I hate being made to conform for no good reason.
posted by b33j at 2:38 PM on September 16, 2015 [8 favorites]
However, finding out that I am on the spectrum has been life changing and in many ways a huge relief. Maybe if it comes up naturally in conversation, you could share the experiences of your friends with ASD and what they have found helpful.
I have a charming friend who describes us both as Aspie and he says being on the spectrum is not a disorder, that we're advanced evolutionarily with mild superpowers and all the hassle about this stuff is the normals who want us to behave illogically (like them) without sharing their rule book. I like the way he thinks because I hate being made to conform for no good reason.
posted by b33j at 2:38 PM on September 16, 2015 [8 favorites]
This is so far away from your business it can't be seen with a telescope.
Can you? Yes.
Should you? No.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:58 PM on September 16, 2015
Can you? Yes.
Should you? No.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:58 PM on September 16, 2015
Are you a doctor, or perhaps a psychologist, social worker, or professional authority in any of those areas?
Maybe you're a very close friend, immediate family member, or spouse?
No?
Stay the hell out of it.
posted by Sara C. at 4:15 PM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Maybe you're a very close friend, immediate family member, or spouse?
No?
Stay the hell out of it.
posted by Sara C. at 4:15 PM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
This would be so. incredibly. out of line. If he was functional in the workplace, I imagine that he'd understand you just fine and hopefully he would be rightly weirded out and ask you WTH is your deal if you did. Questions of whether you are right or whether you might be right have no bearing on it. Do everyone a favor and do not lose anymore sleep over his potential AU diagnosis. He has the same access to the phone numbers of nearby therapy providers, is familiar with the factors making his life more or less functional, and has family members and possibly friends who can broach this gently with him if needed.
posted by mermily at 4:26 PM on September 16, 2015
posted by mermily at 4:26 PM on September 16, 2015
No! As a manager you are within your rights to set, manage and coach your team on behavioral expectations in line with corporate values, but you can't provide diagnosis. As an ex-manager, I don't think you should do anything - it's not your place.
posted by KirkpatrickMac at 5:57 PM on September 16, 2015
posted by KirkpatrickMac at 5:57 PM on September 16, 2015
I don't think this is a good idea unless you are close friends and it comes up naturally (and even then, maybe not). As somebody on the spectrum, I want to gently point out that your concern with his "unusual attitudes and behaviors" is misplaced, because any therapeutic help he would get would be for his own comfort and adjustment, not anyone else's. Autism is not an illness and ethical therapy for adults does not focus on reduction of autistic "symptoms" but on functioning within a society that can be pretty indifferent and callous to our needs. So if you really want to help this guy out, please focus on accepting him as he is, not trying to change him.
posted by thetortoise at 6:53 PM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 6:53 PM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Your heart is in the right place. you were right to carefully consider whether or not to bring this up with him, but the kindest choice (for him) is that you keep your armchair diagnosis to yourself. As you grow closer, he may bring up situations that would allow you to broach the general topic of aspergers, but otherwise this is something he will need to investigate by himself. He is intelligent and can do so independently; your role is to be his friend, not his guide.
posted by samthemander at 6:56 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by samthemander at 6:56 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
This would not be a life-altering favor. It's a potential diagnosis that he might have or have dismissed out of hand. You are most likely not the only concerned layman in his life, but even if you are, this is up to his healthcare team.
posted by RainyJay at 10:13 PM on September 16, 2015
posted by RainyJay at 10:13 PM on September 16, 2015
Why don't you ask HR what they think of your telling a former employee that you believe he has a medical condition that a negative impact on his ability to do his job?
posted by Scram at 7:48 AM on September 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Scram at 7:48 AM on September 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I believe he is completely unaware of the cause of his unusual attitudes and behaviors... I believe I could potentially do him a life-altering favor by expressing my opinion
Many a relationship has been destroyed based on these precise beliefs. Don't do it.
posted by latkes at 8:09 AM on September 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Many a relationship has been destroyed based on these precise beliefs. Don't do it.
posted by latkes at 8:09 AM on September 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
IANAD and I don't work with autistic people, but I am an obsessive pscyhiatry buff and a mental illness sufferer and borderline autistic myself. FWIW, one doesn't necessarily need a degree or a professional label to identify signs and thoroughly understand diagnostic criteria. In fact, dare I say, many of those degreed professionals I've interacted with have lost their passion for learning and don't understand it nearly as well as I do.
When I met my now husband, I told him what I saw early on and he literally wept with relief because, as he put it, no one before had ever cared enough to tell him the truth that he was different... that he didn't just feel out of place, lonely, rejected... that there was a reason for his suffering over 25 years in the cruel social environment that is America. We bonded deeply over this and it really changed his life for the better.
If you care about this person and are reasonably close to him or working toward it, and if you're really sure of what you're seeing, there may be a time and place to discuss this, gently. Examine your intentions for doing it and make sure it's about compassion, rather than your comfort, awakwardness, or amusement.
posted by dissolvedgirl22 at 8:44 AM on September 17, 2015
When I met my now husband, I told him what I saw early on and he literally wept with relief because, as he put it, no one before had ever cared enough to tell him the truth that he was different... that he didn't just feel out of place, lonely, rejected... that there was a reason for his suffering over 25 years in the cruel social environment that is America. We bonded deeply over this and it really changed his life for the better.
If you care about this person and are reasonably close to him or working toward it, and if you're really sure of what you're seeing, there may be a time and place to discuss this, gently. Examine your intentions for doing it and make sure it's about compassion, rather than your comfort, awakwardness, or amusement.
posted by dissolvedgirl22 at 8:44 AM on September 17, 2015
Is it reasonable to do this and expect him to understand what I'm saying?
Ouch. I'm gonna have to gently disagree with others above and say that, based on this wording, your heart doesn't actually seem to be in the right place for something like this. I don't think there's any ill-will here, not at all, but I do get a patronizing tone from the text of your question so I'm glad you asked this here, because you should know how it might be received despite your good intentions. To me, based on what you've written, it seems you think he's weird and you want him to not be weird anymore and that if you can just tell him so you will transform his entire life for the better. It doesn't seem you have thought this through-- how do you know he is not aware of his "unusual" traits? Why would you assume he wants to change his life, or that if he does, he is not already working on doing so?
You don't mention that he's suffering and has asked for help, you don't mention he confides in you about personal matters at all, you don't mention a friendship or an emotional bond-- just that he's a former co-worker you used to manage and that you are still in touch. You also don't mention your expertise in this area. If you had mentioned either an extreme trust and closeness (like the above poster who discussed this with her husband) or a single qualification, my answer might be different. Otherwise, I think it would just come across as an unsolicited judgement, which is rude.
I think the most you can do is trust that he's a capable adult, and if you want to become a person he confides in, then take him on his terms and stay open-minded and nonjudgmental. If you treat him with acceptance, you just might become the person he turns to for advice, and the topic may arise more naturally.
posted by kapers at 9:21 AM on September 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Ouch. I'm gonna have to gently disagree with others above and say that, based on this wording, your heart doesn't actually seem to be in the right place for something like this. I don't think there's any ill-will here, not at all, but I do get a patronizing tone from the text of your question so I'm glad you asked this here, because you should know how it might be received despite your good intentions. To me, based on what you've written, it seems you think he's weird and you want him to not be weird anymore and that if you can just tell him so you will transform his entire life for the better. It doesn't seem you have thought this through-- how do you know he is not aware of his "unusual" traits? Why would you assume he wants to change his life, or that if he does, he is not already working on doing so?
You don't mention that he's suffering and has asked for help, you don't mention he confides in you about personal matters at all, you don't mention a friendship or an emotional bond-- just that he's a former co-worker you used to manage and that you are still in touch. You also don't mention your expertise in this area. If you had mentioned either an extreme trust and closeness (like the above poster who discussed this with her husband) or a single qualification, my answer might be different. Otherwise, I think it would just come across as an unsolicited judgement, which is rude.
I think the most you can do is trust that he's a capable adult, and if you want to become a person he confides in, then take him on his terms and stay open-minded and nonjudgmental. If you treat him with acceptance, you just might become the person he turns to for advice, and the topic may arise more naturally.
posted by kapers at 9:21 AM on September 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't think this is such a bad idea. And I think everyone is putting too much weight on this. It's not like you are going to say I think you have cancer and you're going to die. You think he may have Autism which is not a disease or a mental illness and is actually a very cool way of experiencing the world but people who don't know they are on the Autism spectrum and don't understand why they can't mix like everyone else could really use a friend like you.
BTW this happened to me recently when a young relative emailed me out of the blue and said "have you ever thought you might be on the spectrum because I know I am and I believe it is genetic and you have always seemed on the spectrum to me." (I was diagnosed years ago but I never talk to anyone about it.) I really welcomed this conversation and it has been a total ice-breaker between us and has really helped me and my relative to get this out in the open. We have two other relatives who we want to talk to about this. One we talked to and they don't think they are on the spectrum but we think it is exactly why they are having so many problems with employment. So we left it at that but this person is now open to talking about this and other possibilities for why they are un-employed and so this has been a great help for our family. The second person has no problems with employment or fitting into society so we have decided not to bring the subject up with them at this time.
I cringe at the thought of recommending "therapy" for someone on the spectrum because it is not something that needs to be fixed. But lots of people on the spectrum have PTSD from traumatic experiences related to Autism so they could use help with that if they could find a knowledgeable therapist (good luck with that.)
posted by cda at 9:33 AM on September 17, 2015
BTW this happened to me recently when a young relative emailed me out of the blue and said "have you ever thought you might be on the spectrum because I know I am and I believe it is genetic and you have always seemed on the spectrum to me." (I was diagnosed years ago but I never talk to anyone about it.) I really welcomed this conversation and it has been a total ice-breaker between us and has really helped me and my relative to get this out in the open. We have two other relatives who we want to talk to about this. One we talked to and they don't think they are on the spectrum but we think it is exactly why they are having so many problems with employment. So we left it at that but this person is now open to talking about this and other possibilities for why they are un-employed and so this has been a great help for our family. The second person has no problems with employment or fitting into society so we have decided not to bring the subject up with them at this time.
I cringe at the thought of recommending "therapy" for someone on the spectrum because it is not something that needs to be fixed. But lots of people on the spectrum have PTSD from traumatic experiences related to Autism so they could use help with that if they could find a knowledgeable therapist (good luck with that.)
posted by cda at 9:33 AM on September 17, 2015
If nothing else I think you are wildly overestimating the positive impact that such a "favor" could have. Based on the context given and your wording, I think this could come across as presumptive, not helpful. So I vote, no.
posted by sm1tten at 10:11 AM on September 17, 2015
posted by sm1tten at 10:11 AM on September 17, 2015
I once suggested to someone that he might be in the autism spectrum (based on certain behaviors and after talking to my therapist) and my comment was not well received. I was in a relationship with that person and both my kids and I were affected daily by his actions. I was tactful and was deeply invested in making the relationship work, but I might as well not have said anything, it didn't help at all, it changed nothing. I don't think you should say anything, but it's just MHO.
posted by dragonbaby07 at 12:11 PM on September 17, 2015
posted by dragonbaby07 at 12:11 PM on September 17, 2015
I believe I could potentially do him a life-altering favor by expressing my opinion and suggesting he seek some help.
Well that's based on the assumption that he will agree with your assessment, decide to seek help, and find effective help.
It's more likely that your opinion will come across as hurtful and insulting.
Not everyone is interested in changing their attitudes and behaviors to conform with how you would like them to act.
You seem to see this as some sort of thing you can bestow that will magically change this person when they hear it, some sort of grand gesture you would bestow. It's not.
posted by yohko at 1:51 PM on September 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well that's based on the assumption that he will agree with your assessment, decide to seek help, and find effective help.
It's more likely that your opinion will come across as hurtful and insulting.
Not everyone is interested in changing their attitudes and behaviors to conform with how you would like them to act.
You seem to see this as some sort of thing you can bestow that will magically change this person when they hear it, some sort of grand gesture you would bestow. It's not.
posted by yohko at 1:51 PM on September 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
For goodness sake, we don't have to lynch the poor OP for asking the question! I wish people would check the tone of their answers to those who, for all intents and purposes, seem to have nothing but good intentions in posing their question. Yeeeeesh!
posted by lock sock and barrel at 11:27 AM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lock sock and barrel at 11:27 AM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
lsab, you are right, the poster does seem to have good intentions and I hope they aren't hurt by the response. However, many people have strong reactions to this kind of unsolicited diagnosis because they've seen it go badly before. And folks who are not autistic themselves can be prone to treating the subject in a stigmatizing and inaccurate way, so broaching it requires a lot of knowledge and delicacy. That said, I'm sure the OP has their friend's best interests at heart.
I would like to clarify my answer: if it's just that your friend seems autistic or strange, please realize that autism is not a pathology. If it's that he is depressed/struggling with work/unhappy/etc. and you think it may be connected with his possible autism, focus on assisting him with the more immediate problem at hand. This kind of knowledge (even if well-founded) is best used to enhance understanding of a person, not for trying to improve them.
posted by thetortoise at 12:47 PM on September 18, 2015
I would like to clarify my answer: if it's just that your friend seems autistic or strange, please realize that autism is not a pathology. If it's that he is depressed/struggling with work/unhappy/etc. and you think it may be connected with his possible autism, focus on assisting him with the more immediate problem at hand. This kind of knowledge (even if well-founded) is best used to enhance understanding of a person, not for trying to improve them.
posted by thetortoise at 12:47 PM on September 18, 2015
No, you shouldn't suggest it. I say this as someone who is 99% probably on the spectrum (not diagnosed by a physician because I don't want a label that might cause a problem for me, but I'm pretty much textbook) and who started the journey of figuring it out BECAUSE someone made an inappropriate comment about it.
Am I glad that happened in the long run? Kind of, yes.
Would I recommend it? Still, no. The person who did that was *VERY* close to me, liked or even loved me and made that clear, didn't mean it in an unpleasant way, etc. and I still took it very badly (I knew very little about it at the time) and made me angry and strained our relationship briefly. If it's that conflict-y between two people who are intimate and open with each other, imagine how it would go over in the workplace. (Poorly, I'm sure.)
If he asks you for advice or suggests he could use some, give the advice you'd give to someone on the spectrum, without saying he's on the spectrum. If he doesn't ask for advice, probably avoid giving it, no matter how beneficial you think it'd be - you have to be pretty darn close to a person to give unsolicited advice without it being annoying or insulting.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 11:31 PM on September 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Am I glad that happened in the long run? Kind of, yes.
Would I recommend it? Still, no. The person who did that was *VERY* close to me, liked or even loved me and made that clear, didn't mean it in an unpleasant way, etc. and I still took it very badly (I knew very little about it at the time) and made me angry and strained our relationship briefly. If it's that conflict-y between two people who are intimate and open with each other, imagine how it would go over in the workplace. (Poorly, I'm sure.)
If he asks you for advice or suggests he could use some, give the advice you'd give to someone on the spectrum, without saying he's on the spectrum. If he doesn't ask for advice, probably avoid giving it, no matter how beneficial you think it'd be - you have to be pretty darn close to a person to give unsolicited advice without it being annoying or insulting.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 11:31 PM on September 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
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