Warm-toned LED lights won't interfere with sleep/circadian rhythm?
September 7, 2015 6:08 PM Subscribe
Does anyone know about whether a warm-toned LED light acts like a regular incandescent light in terms of effects on melatonin/sleep cycle? Thank you !
I was listening to the podcast "Big Picture Science," in an episode on LED (light-emitting diode) lights. In an interview with one expert, they suggested but did not explicitly say (if I understood correctly) that there are LED lights that are warm enough in color that they won't cause a big problem with people's sleep cycles. I had already heard about how fluorescent lighting emits more bluish light and therefore interferes with melatonin release in people who are exposed to such lights late in the evening.
I was listening to the podcast "Big Picture Science," in an episode on LED (light-emitting diode) lights. In an interview with one expert, they suggested but did not explicitly say (if I understood correctly) that there are LED lights that are warm enough in color that they won't cause a big problem with people's sleep cycles. I had already heard about how fluorescent lighting emits more bluish light and therefore interferes with melatonin release in people who are exposed to such lights late in the evening.
I had already heard about how fluorescent lighting emits more bluish light and therefore interferes with melatonin release in people who are exposed to such lights late in the evening.
I was a bit skeptical, but that's correct.
A warm-toned, or 'warm white' LED light will be better for evening sleepiness than a bluer-toned LED light, but it is still bad. Anything that puts out some blue will still screw you up a bit, including all incandescents, warm-white or otherwise. If you can distinguish a blue-covered book from a black one, then it's still putting out some blue photons.
To completely avoid inhibiting melatonin production, it would have to look like this patch of yellow, which is #FFFF00, which is the white light from a screen or white led with the blue pixel turned off. Or just red, of course. Or just green.
So a smart (color-tunable) LED bulb like the Phillips hue or some cheaper offering would be better, because you can switch it from putting out white to putting out yellow. As would orange-tint safety goggles.
Also try f.lux, redshift, or twilight on your various devices that aren't just one huge white pixel, to turn the blue pixels off or down.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:48 PM on September 7, 2015
I was a bit skeptical, but that's correct.
A warm-toned, or 'warm white' LED light will be better for evening sleepiness than a bluer-toned LED light, but it is still bad. Anything that puts out some blue will still screw you up a bit, including all incandescents, warm-white or otherwise. If you can distinguish a blue-covered book from a black one, then it's still putting out some blue photons.
To completely avoid inhibiting melatonin production, it would have to look like this patch of yellow, which is #FFFF00, which is the white light from a screen or white led with the blue pixel turned off. Or just red, of course. Or just green.
So a smart (color-tunable) LED bulb like the Phillips hue or some cheaper offering would be better, because you can switch it from putting out white to putting out yellow. As would orange-tint safety goggles.
Also try f.lux, redshift, or twilight on your various devices that aren't just one huge white pixel, to turn the blue pixels off or down.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:48 PM on September 7, 2015
Also try f.lux, redshift, or twilight on your various devices that aren't just one huge white pixel, to turn the blue pixels off or down.
Unfortunately, f.lux doesn't work that way, though you may find it more comfortable for your eyes. (I do.) LCD screens are backlit with a white fluorescent or LED light, and changing the colors on screen doesn't actually filter out the blue wavelengths. I would expect that OLED might behave differently, but I haven't seen the data on it. I actually have a lamp with a darkroom-safe red light that I use in the evening to have enough light to see by without blue wavelengths.
posted by stopgap at 8:21 PM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately, f.lux doesn't work that way, though you may find it more comfortable for your eyes. (I do.) LCD screens are backlit with a white fluorescent or LED light, and changing the colors on screen doesn't actually filter out the blue wavelengths. I would expect that OLED might behave differently, but I haven't seen the data on it. I actually have a lamp with a darkroom-safe red light that I use in the evening to have enough light to see by without blue wavelengths.
posted by stopgap at 8:21 PM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Nearly all white leds are actually blue leds with yellow phosphor painted over the chip. THey will all output quite a lot of blue light. The exception would be RGB leds which are a lot less common (any light that can dramatically change color is RGB though).
posted by ryanrs at 9:14 PM on September 7, 2015
posted by ryanrs at 9:14 PM on September 7, 2015
I have done a lot of reading on this issue, actually, and I've put what I've learned into practice to very good effect. (FWIW, I've always been a complete night owl, and I'm also very attached to using my laptop at all hours of the day.) The good news is that all of this is very cheap to implement, so even if it doesn't help, you won't be out a lot of money.
You should be aiming for light that is orange or red. If you only choose one tool for this, I would say these orange UV blocking lab glasses are the best investment. They are particularly important if you use any technology at night, because laptops, ipads, phones, etc are major producers of sleep interrupting blue light, at least that's what I've heard. (I definitely read an actual study where they tested melatonin levels of people who wore blue light blocking glasses like these and it did make a very significant difference for the participants. I'll post it if I can manage to track it down again.) I was skeptical at first, but these do a good enough job of blocking out blue light that, for example, with them on I can't tell whether the cable box is turned on because the indicator light is bright blue, and these glasses completely block it out.
The next thing to get is this fluorescent orange bulb. If you have a table lamp which takes the standard light bulb, swap this one out for your current bulb, or find a cheap lamp that works with this bulb. It's a little weird at first, but you'll adjust to it. I usually aim to switch over to the light at least 1.5 to 2 hours before my bed time. Sometimes I don't put on the goggles until a little after that, but you do need to give these time to work.
If you're ready to commit to a few other interventions, switch all of your nightlights to something like this or get a nightlight that allows you to put in your own C7 bulb like these red ones. (I have the first nightlight in the main living areas in my apartment, and then I use this nightlight with the bulbs in my bathroom.)
My final step was to buy these orange transparent sheets (they're partially see through, and sort of like thin plastic). I've used them to cover various clocks and other sources of light, because it seems like so many appliances and alarm clocks have blue light displays. With this stuff, you can still be able to see whatever is being displayed, but it definitely helps to cut down on the blue light that gets through. You can do a couple layers if one isn't enough.
This is of course major YMMV territory, but I absolutely think this has made a difference for me, and I'm currently using every single thing I've linked in this thread. I also use a light box and daylight bulbs in the morning, but those are a bit more of an investment money wise, and I really think this nighttime has made the biggest difference.
The only sort of downside is that I've become much more sensitive to any sources of white or blue light at night, so that's why I keep my orange glasses on all the time, and then I switch over to a sleep mask when I'm ready to go to sleep.
posted by litera scripta manet at 9:46 PM on September 7, 2015 [21 favorites]
You should be aiming for light that is orange or red. If you only choose one tool for this, I would say these orange UV blocking lab glasses are the best investment. They are particularly important if you use any technology at night, because laptops, ipads, phones, etc are major producers of sleep interrupting blue light, at least that's what I've heard. (I definitely read an actual study where they tested melatonin levels of people who wore blue light blocking glasses like these and it did make a very significant difference for the participants. I'll post it if I can manage to track it down again.) I was skeptical at first, but these do a good enough job of blocking out blue light that, for example, with them on I can't tell whether the cable box is turned on because the indicator light is bright blue, and these glasses completely block it out.
The next thing to get is this fluorescent orange bulb. If you have a table lamp which takes the standard light bulb, swap this one out for your current bulb, or find a cheap lamp that works with this bulb. It's a little weird at first, but you'll adjust to it. I usually aim to switch over to the light at least 1.5 to 2 hours before my bed time. Sometimes I don't put on the goggles until a little after that, but you do need to give these time to work.
If you're ready to commit to a few other interventions, switch all of your nightlights to something like this or get a nightlight that allows you to put in your own C7 bulb like these red ones. (I have the first nightlight in the main living areas in my apartment, and then I use this nightlight with the bulbs in my bathroom.)
My final step was to buy these orange transparent sheets (they're partially see through, and sort of like thin plastic). I've used them to cover various clocks and other sources of light, because it seems like so many appliances and alarm clocks have blue light displays. With this stuff, you can still be able to see whatever is being displayed, but it definitely helps to cut down on the blue light that gets through. You can do a couple layers if one isn't enough.
This is of course major YMMV territory, but I absolutely think this has made a difference for me, and I'm currently using every single thing I've linked in this thread. I also use a light box and daylight bulbs in the morning, but those are a bit more of an investment money wise, and I really think this nighttime has made the biggest difference.
The only sort of downside is that I've become much more sensitive to any sources of white or blue light at night, so that's why I keep my orange glasses on all the time, and then I switch over to a sleep mask when I'm ready to go to sleep.
posted by litera scripta manet at 9:46 PM on September 7, 2015 [21 favorites]
THey will all output quite a lot of blue light. The exception would be RGB leds which are a lot less common
An "RGB LED" is just three separate LEDs in one package, so I don't think they'd be an exception here.
posted by neckro23 at 10:02 AM on September 8, 2015
An "RGB LED" is just three separate LEDs in one package, so I don't think they'd be an exception here.
posted by neckro23 at 10:02 AM on September 8, 2015
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posted by thebotanyofsouls at 6:50 PM on September 7, 2015