Serious home automation in 2015?
September 6, 2015 12:57 AM Subscribe
After years of running my own Insteon + Indigo Domotics / Mac Mini system I'm done writing python and applescript for what I see other packages doing for the users. What are the folks getting into it now (beyond belkin) trending towards?
Indigo is the most powerful thing around but it's too DIY.
My entire home is sensored up in Insteon. Doors, windows, motion, lights, switches.
If I were to move away from Indigo, what should I be looking at? I want to do all the fun stuff I do with indigo — alert me if doors open, turn lights on as I move through the house, capture would-be burglars on camera, etc. — without having to play sysadmin for my home all the time.
Thanks!
Indigo is the most powerful thing around but it's too DIY.
My entire home is sensored up in Insteon. Doors, windows, motion, lights, switches.
If I were to move away from Indigo, what should I be looking at? I want to do all the fun stuff I do with indigo — alert me if doors open, turn lights on as I move through the house, capture would-be burglars on camera, etc. — without having to play sysadmin for my home all the time.
Thanks!
I'm closing on a house on Friday, so this is relevant to my interests. I am irrationally optimistic about the Apple announcement on Wednesday, which should at least mention HomeKit and, I'm hoping, Apple TV as a hub for the various protocols. Whether that's enough control for you of course remains to be seen.
posted by supercres at 7:00 AM on September 6, 2015
posted by supercres at 7:00 AM on September 6, 2015
Best answer: I have a Control4 system which works pretty well, and can do all of that stuff if you have the right components. But it has two big drawbacks that make me hesitate to recommend it to others (especially people coming from a DIY home automation background):
1. Their business model is to force you to go through your dealer for just about everything. You can't even add a light switch to the system without the dealer's involvement (you can buy the parts on eBay and such, but you won't be able to add them in the software). I can do basic programing like changing lighting scenes, etc. but anything else requires getting the dealer in the loop (thankfully my dealer is super cool and easy to work with, but it's still a headache). There are some "unauthorized" ways around this limitation, but I personally would not suggest buying into an expensive system while relying on loopholes and back doors (which could be closed at any moment); either use it the way it's intended to be used, or don't use it at all.
2. The user interface is way better than the DIY stuff, but still not as good as it should be. My non-technical family members can use it just fine, but I feel that there's huge room for improvement in the UI. This, far more than the first point, is what would make me most likely buy into a different system if I were starting from scratch now.
If I were buying now, I'd probably go with Crestron, but it is FAR more expensive than Control4 and still has the dealer lock-in issue. It's just a much better overall experience in the systems I've used. I might also consider Savant. I looked at Crestron before I bought into Control4, went with Control4 mostly because it was cheaper (but also because the Crestron dealer I talked to was a jerk and the Control4 dealer was great). And I don't know that I'd say I regret the decision, but I do think you get what you pay for and I'd do it differently if I could go back.
posted by primethyme at 8:54 AM on September 6, 2015
1. Their business model is to force you to go through your dealer for just about everything. You can't even add a light switch to the system without the dealer's involvement (you can buy the parts on eBay and such, but you won't be able to add them in the software). I can do basic programing like changing lighting scenes, etc. but anything else requires getting the dealer in the loop (thankfully my dealer is super cool and easy to work with, but it's still a headache). There are some "unauthorized" ways around this limitation, but I personally would not suggest buying into an expensive system while relying on loopholes and back doors (which could be closed at any moment); either use it the way it's intended to be used, or don't use it at all.
2. The user interface is way better than the DIY stuff, but still not as good as it should be. My non-technical family members can use it just fine, but I feel that there's huge room for improvement in the UI. This, far more than the first point, is what would make me most likely buy into a different system if I were starting from scratch now.
If I were buying now, I'd probably go with Crestron, but it is FAR more expensive than Control4 and still has the dealer lock-in issue. It's just a much better overall experience in the systems I've used. I might also consider Savant. I looked at Crestron before I bought into Control4, went with Control4 mostly because it was cheaper (but also because the Crestron dealer I talked to was a jerk and the Control4 dealer was great). And I don't know that I'd say I regret the decision, but I do think you get what you pay for and I'd do it differently if I could go back.
posted by primethyme at 8:54 AM on September 6, 2015
Best answer: Oh, sorry, I got carried away and forgot to mention, the other problem with these systems is that I'm pretty sure you'd have to replace at least some of the Insteon stuff. I know Control4 can work with some Insteon components, but I believe you'd at least need to use the Control4 switches/dimmers. I could be mistaken on this; I didn't investigate it when I was shopping because I was starting with a blank canvas. But I think most of these higher-end systems are going to expect you to use their stuff for at least the core "backbone" components.
I also forgot to say, this stuff definitely in my experience solves the "sysadmin in my own house" problem. I never touch it or think about it unless I want to tweak something (totally optional). Generally it "just works" as expected, which is great. (Some of this will of course be influenced by your dealer, and how good they are at setting it up and programming it).
posted by primethyme at 9:00 AM on September 6, 2015
I also forgot to say, this stuff definitely in my experience solves the "sysadmin in my own house" problem. I never touch it or think about it unless I want to tweak something (totally optional). Generally it "just works" as expected, which is great. (Some of this will of course be influenced by your dealer, and how good they are at setting it up and programming it).
posted by primethyme at 9:00 AM on September 6, 2015
Best answer: I've been a home automation programmer for the last 13 years, and work with Crestron, Control4, and Savant. All three of these use a dealer/installer distribution model rather than selling direct to end users, but it sounds like that may be what you're looking for. If you don't want to be the sysadmin for your house you are going to have to hire somebody else to do that for you; there is no off-the-shelf, full featured, maintenance-free home automation system on the market, and the current alphabet soup of competing standards makes that unlikely to change in the near future.
Control4 is the most straightforward choice for somebody transitioning from a DIY system, mostly because the pricing will cause the least sticker shock and because there is an official method for interested end users to do some system configuration on their own. Control4 is a wizard-based system with a canned UI, which is a blessing and a curse; it's simple enough to set up that you can start putting systems together without much training, but that means a lot of electrical and alarm system subcontractors who really aren't qualified to set up a network end up becoming dealers and putting systems together in ill-advised ways or without adequate infrastructure. It's true that you will need a dealer's assistance for things like adding new devices to your system, but if you find an amenable dealer this sort of thing can be done remotely (i.e. you wire up the new dimmer, then give them a call and they'll tell you when to press the button to commission it into the system.) I see that an Insteon driver for Control4 does exist, but I have no idea how full-featured it is or whether it would really be useful for your house/devices.
Crestron is the most customizable system, but this is largely because the UI and system programming are almost entirely a blank slate; until recently, every button object on every screen had to be defined in detail by the programmer, both in terms of appearance and visual behavior and in terms of what activating the button would do. They've recently moved to a more of a prepackaged object-based system for the graphical components, but the backend is still pretty labor-intensive and the quality of the system depends very heavily on the skill of the programmer. The hardware also costs significantly more than similar stuff from Control4, though they have come down in price lately. Crestron is still the best option for a bespoke "money is no object" automation system, but its pricing puts it out of reach for most homeowners. They've made a couple of attempts at a more entry-level product with Prodigy and more recently Pyng, but neither of these has gotten much traction to date.
Savant is the newcomer and is doing some awesome stuff, however I'm a bit leery of them as a company. They started out at the extreme high end, positioning themselves as even more fancy and exclusive than Crestron, then made an abrupt shift to the low end and have a line (their newer "Smart Host" system) that competes directly with Control4 (while still maintaining their luxe OS X based system for the high end and mostly defining by fiat what features will differentiate the two.) Their policies wrt software licensing have been all over the map, and they often make drastic course changes that leave their existing customers (and I'm including dealers and end users here) in the lurch. If I felt sure they'd be around for the long term they would be my recommendation, but I'm uncertain enough about their future that I might give them a pass if I were investing in a big new system for myself.
posted by contraption at 3:28 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Control4 is the most straightforward choice for somebody transitioning from a DIY system, mostly because the pricing will cause the least sticker shock and because there is an official method for interested end users to do some system configuration on their own. Control4 is a wizard-based system with a canned UI, which is a blessing and a curse; it's simple enough to set up that you can start putting systems together without much training, but that means a lot of electrical and alarm system subcontractors who really aren't qualified to set up a network end up becoming dealers and putting systems together in ill-advised ways or without adequate infrastructure. It's true that you will need a dealer's assistance for things like adding new devices to your system, but if you find an amenable dealer this sort of thing can be done remotely (i.e. you wire up the new dimmer, then give them a call and they'll tell you when to press the button to commission it into the system.) I see that an Insteon driver for Control4 does exist, but I have no idea how full-featured it is or whether it would really be useful for your house/devices.
Crestron is the most customizable system, but this is largely because the UI and system programming are almost entirely a blank slate; until recently, every button object on every screen had to be defined in detail by the programmer, both in terms of appearance and visual behavior and in terms of what activating the button would do. They've recently moved to a more of a prepackaged object-based system for the graphical components, but the backend is still pretty labor-intensive and the quality of the system depends very heavily on the skill of the programmer. The hardware also costs significantly more than similar stuff from Control4, though they have come down in price lately. Crestron is still the best option for a bespoke "money is no object" automation system, but its pricing puts it out of reach for most homeowners. They've made a couple of attempts at a more entry-level product with Prodigy and more recently Pyng, but neither of these has gotten much traction to date.
Savant is the newcomer and is doing some awesome stuff, however I'm a bit leery of them as a company. They started out at the extreme high end, positioning themselves as even more fancy and exclusive than Crestron, then made an abrupt shift to the low end and have a line (their newer "Smart Host" system) that competes directly with Control4 (while still maintaining their luxe OS X based system for the high end and mostly defining by fiat what features will differentiate the two.) Their policies wrt software licensing have been all over the map, and they often make drastic course changes that leave their existing customers (and I'm including dealers and end users here) in the lurch. If I felt sure they'd be around for the long term they would be my recommendation, but I'm uncertain enough about their future that I might give them a pass if I were investing in a big new system for myself.
posted by contraption at 3:28 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks Contraption and primethyme. These are really insightful answers. I admit there's still no right solution here, but at least I'm more informed. This also makes me think it might not be a bad idea to just wait it out another year or two for the market to normalize and adjust (like disc brakes standards on road bikes). In the meantime I can deal with being a sysadmin for my home for a bit longer, and just bought the z-wave stick for Indigo so I can make use of z-wave features that insteon doesn't have.
posted by Señor Pantalones at 12:33 AM on September 7, 2015
posted by Señor Pantalones at 12:33 AM on September 7, 2015
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posted by travellingincognito at 2:18 AM on September 6, 2015