SUV vs minivan ad nauseum
September 1, 2015 9:49 AM Subscribe
Help me figure out what my next vehicle should be! I've read the other SUV vs minivan questions, but of course, snowflakes.
We have a Mazda6, but we also have two kids in car seats and it is a literal pain to bend over to maneuver them into the seats and buckle them up. Also, the front seats have to be further forward than we'd like them to be to make room for the rear facing seat and to avoid having the seat kicked by the forward facing kid. We live in a snowy area, and also on an unfavorable hill (so the doors tend to fall shut by gravity unless they are actively being held open). We rarely need to carry a fifth passenger but it would be nice on occasion (we are for sure not having more kids). I am working very hard to get my oldest kid to be self-sufficient on getting into her car seat by herself. I know this seems like a weird criteria, but she has some gross motor delays and getting into her car seat is the perfect "exercise" for her to work on the skills that she lacks, but this requirement seems to be throwing the biggest wrench into the decision-making process.
I'm pretty much evenly torn between a small SUV and a minivan. I'm open to other options like crossovers but haven't done any research on them.
Criteria:
* High enough off the ground so that I don't have to bend a lot to buckle kids
* Reliable/safe
* Handles well in snow
* Decent gas mileage (we're getting ~22 mpg right now)
Perks
SUV (we're looking at five seaters, not seven seaters)
* Meets all the criteria
* Not a minivan
Minivan
* Meets all the criteria
* Remote operated sliding doors
* Lower to the ground so kids can climb in by themselves
Drawbacks
SUV
* Higher off the ground, harder for kids to climb in by themselves
* Doors will still need to be held open on our hill
Minivan
* Way more space than we need, in terms of seating and cargo
* Captain's seats in the middle row make it hard for kids to get into their own seats (can the rear bench be put in the middle row?)
* Worse gas mileage than SUVs (is this still true?)
* We rented a minivan on a trip earlier this summer and I hated driving it. It feels like driving a whale.
* "I'm too young and cool to drive a minivan!"
Whatever we get will be late model used, we're looking to spend around $20,000. Don't care about options like DVD players. What are your recommendations, and why?
We have a Mazda6, but we also have two kids in car seats and it is a literal pain to bend over to maneuver them into the seats and buckle them up. Also, the front seats have to be further forward than we'd like them to be to make room for the rear facing seat and to avoid having the seat kicked by the forward facing kid. We live in a snowy area, and also on an unfavorable hill (so the doors tend to fall shut by gravity unless they are actively being held open). We rarely need to carry a fifth passenger but it would be nice on occasion (we are for sure not having more kids). I am working very hard to get my oldest kid to be self-sufficient on getting into her car seat by herself. I know this seems like a weird criteria, but she has some gross motor delays and getting into her car seat is the perfect "exercise" for her to work on the skills that she lacks, but this requirement seems to be throwing the biggest wrench into the decision-making process.
I'm pretty much evenly torn between a small SUV and a minivan. I'm open to other options like crossovers but haven't done any research on them.
Criteria:
* High enough off the ground so that I don't have to bend a lot to buckle kids
* Reliable/safe
* Handles well in snow
* Decent gas mileage (we're getting ~22 mpg right now)
Perks
SUV (we're looking at five seaters, not seven seaters)
* Meets all the criteria
* Not a minivan
Minivan
* Meets all the criteria
* Remote operated sliding doors
* Lower to the ground so kids can climb in by themselves
Drawbacks
SUV
* Higher off the ground, harder for kids to climb in by themselves
* Doors will still need to be held open on our hill
Minivan
* Way more space than we need, in terms of seating and cargo
* Captain's seats in the middle row make it hard for kids to get into their own seats (can the rear bench be put in the middle row?)
* Worse gas mileage than SUVs (is this still true?)
* We rented a minivan on a trip earlier this summer and I hated driving it. It feels like driving a whale.
* "I'm too young and cool to drive a minivan!"
Whatever we get will be late model used, we're looking to spend around $20,000. Don't care about options like DVD players. What are your recommendations, and why?
We have an older model (2007) RAV4 and my 3-year old is able to climb into her car seat pretty easily. It's actually easier for her than climbing into my Ford Focus because there is so much more room for her to move around behind the driver's seat. That said her motor development is fairly normal, I guess? It's definitely a lot easier on my back to put our 1 year old into the RAV as well.
Modern car-based SUVs/crossovers are not terribly high off the ground for the most part.
Don't buy a car you hate driving; life is too short.
PS. Due to the extreme size of modern child car seats, it's generally not possible to sit an adult in the back of a smaller car/SUV as a fifth passenger. YMMV but it's certainly not possible in our RAV.
posted by selfnoise at 10:05 AM on September 1, 2015
Modern car-based SUVs/crossovers are not terribly high off the ground for the most part.
Don't buy a car you hate driving; life is too short.
PS. Due to the extreme size of modern child car seats, it's generally not possible to sit an adult in the back of a smaller car/SUV as a fifth passenger. YMMV but it's certainly not possible in our RAV.
posted by selfnoise at 10:05 AM on September 1, 2015
I would go for a small--medium SUV any time.
But it should be said that driving one minivan isn't like driving another. There's a substantial difference in Whaleness between the various Chevrolets and Chryslers I had the honour to wrestle from here to Danmark and back, and, say a Mercedes Vito or a Volkswagen bus of the newest kind.
On the flip side, some minivans would actually perhaps not be so great on snow, while SUVs generally are.
posted by Namlit at 10:17 AM on September 1, 2015
But it should be said that driving one minivan isn't like driving another. There's a substantial difference in Whaleness between the various Chevrolets and Chryslers I had the honour to wrestle from here to Danmark and back, and, say a Mercedes Vito or a Volkswagen bus of the newest kind.
On the flip side, some minivans would actually perhaps not be so great on snow, while SUVs generally are.
posted by Namlit at 10:17 AM on September 1, 2015
Sounds like you've put a lot of thought and research into this, but you haven't actually gone out and tried out any cars yet. Take a Sunday and hit up all your local used car dealerships. Test drive as many minivans/SUVs/crossovers as you can until you find one that clicks. No matter how good a car looks on paper, it might just not be for you. And like selfnoise said, that's the most important part.
Also, some of the larger hatchbacks might fit your needs and would get better mileage.
posted by mayonnaises at 10:18 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, some of the larger hatchbacks might fit your needs and would get better mileage.
posted by mayonnaises at 10:18 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh and don't feel guilty about making a salesperson take you for a bunch of test drives, it's their job and they're used to it. Don't feel pressured into buying. Even if you don't find the right car, you'll most likely will have decided if you want a van/SUV by then.
posted by mayonnaises at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by mayonnaises at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I ended up buying a Subaru Forester but I really liked the Toyota Venza. It is based on the Camry so it is big enough in the back to have 2 car seats and a passenger. We also figured that we wouldn't be taking a passenger so us plus 2 kids would be enough but there have been tons of times where we have had to squish someone in the back seat. One thing that can help with a vehicle like the Forester is to get a smaller car seat like a Diono.
On a Venza you can get AWD which helps in the snow. It is higher than a regular car but not terribly high either.
Don't get me wrong, I like our Forester. Our 3.5 year old can climb into her seat by herself. Her seat is front facing so that goes behind the drivers side. Our 1 year old is in a rear facing seat so the front passenger seat is more forward than we would like, but we only have to put up with it for another year or so. Also, I have used it to drive off my side lawn when traffic is backed up in front of my house.
I really recommend test driving everything. We did multiple drives on the same cars to see how we liked them, putting in the car seats and stroller to get a feel for what things would be like. It is time consuming, and you will have to deal with salespeople trying to sell you cars but it's for a good cause.
AWD is great if for no other reason that you don't have to shovel the driveway as quickly as otherwise. It still needs to be done, but not right that minute.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:57 AM on September 1, 2015
On a Venza you can get AWD which helps in the snow. It is higher than a regular car but not terribly high either.
Don't get me wrong, I like our Forester. Our 3.5 year old can climb into her seat by herself. Her seat is front facing so that goes behind the drivers side. Our 1 year old is in a rear facing seat so the front passenger seat is more forward than we would like, but we only have to put up with it for another year or so. Also, I have used it to drive off my side lawn when traffic is backed up in front of my house.
I really recommend test driving everything. We did multiple drives on the same cars to see how we liked them, putting in the car seats and stroller to get a feel for what things would be like. It is time consuming, and you will have to deal with salespeople trying to sell you cars but it's for a good cause.
AWD is great if for no other reason that you don't have to shovel the driveway as quickly as otherwise. It still needs to be done, but not right that minute.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:57 AM on September 1, 2015
I agree with Mazda5. It handles just fine in the snow as long as the snow isn't deeper than the front bumper. (I have to drive out of an alley and, with front wheel drive, I have to gun it a bit to get through the snow-packed gutter when I turn onto the main street.) Not sure where you are located, but I'm in central Minnesota and we get metric buttloads at times. Make sure you get a newer model and not mine (2008) because the newer model includes heat in the back rows (mine just includes A/C in the back rows). Otherwise adult toes get cold on the floor (not a problem with my small kid as a blanket suffices and his feet aren't near the floor yet).
Super easy to get my kid in and out of the carseat. And low enough that he can climb into the vehicle and up into his car seat. He likes being able to see out the side and rear windows. There is a fold-out center piece between the two middle seats that includes a net for stuff and two cup holders. The back row is really great for folding up and down to haul varying amounts of stuff and/or people. (Just not large and tall people very comfortably for long distances.)
posted by jillithd at 11:13 AM on September 1, 2015
Super easy to get my kid in and out of the carseat. And low enough that he can climb into the vehicle and up into his car seat. He likes being able to see out the side and rear windows. There is a fold-out center piece between the two middle seats that includes a net for stuff and two cup holders. The back row is really great for folding up and down to haul varying amounts of stuff and/or people. (Just not large and tall people very comfortably for long distances.)
posted by jillithd at 11:13 AM on September 1, 2015
FWIW: FWD + snow tires is a better choice for snow than AWD or 4WD without. Cheaper to buy and you get better fuel economy too.
posted by Poldo at 11:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Poldo at 11:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I prefer a small SUV, but we went with the minivan because the storage is often terrible in the SUV if you've got 4 or 5 people, especially for kids, as they have all kinds on random items that have to come on vacation.
posted by blue_beetle at 11:31 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by blue_beetle at 11:31 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
We had a 4Runner with third-row seats. Was a good fit for us when we were in your situation and I suspect it'd meet most of your needs (except possibly for fuel economy--the wheels are pretty large).
However, having bought a minivan now, I can't imagine not having one. It's literally made for people with kids. They do everything better except look cool. The automatic sliding doors and automatic rear hatch are something you can never not have ever again. You just open them (or the kids push the button on the outside if the door's unlocked) and the kids magically appear in their carseats. Great for the obvious uses such as when your hands are full or kids aren't strong enough to open/close doors, but also for the less obvious uses such as when you want to air out a hot or smelly car. If you only have two kids, you can keep the rear seat folded down (ours disappears into the "floor"); the captain's chairs are absolutely not harder to get into--our toddler has no problem getting from the ground outside into her carseat.
One thing is resale value, though; SUVs typically have better resale than minivans, so unless you're planning on driving it into the ground a minivan may not be the best best. Then again, that same fact helps you in buying and $20k can get you a lot more minivan than SUV. (Look for automatic doors and leather.)
posted by resurrexit at 11:33 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
However, having bought a minivan now, I can't imagine not having one. It's literally made for people with kids. They do everything better except look cool. The automatic sliding doors and automatic rear hatch are something you can never not have ever again. You just open them (or the kids push the button on the outside if the door's unlocked) and the kids magically appear in their carseats. Great for the obvious uses such as when your hands are full or kids aren't strong enough to open/close doors, but also for the less obvious uses such as when you want to air out a hot or smelly car. If you only have two kids, you can keep the rear seat folded down (ours disappears into the "floor"); the captain's chairs are absolutely not harder to get into--our toddler has no problem getting from the ground outside into her carseat.
One thing is resale value, though; SUVs typically have better resale than minivans, so unless you're planning on driving it into the ground a minivan may not be the best best. Then again, that same fact helps you in buying and $20k can get you a lot more minivan than SUV. (Look for automatic doors and leather.)
posted by resurrexit at 11:33 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
blue_beetle's comment is exactly what I mean by saying vans are made for people with kids.
The storage was pretty bad in the 4Runner (the third-row seats were almost against the back hatch) for long trips or trips with lots of luggage; the minivan knocks it out of the park for storage. Every seat in our Quest can fold up or down almost or entirely flat, so you can really maximize the space if y'all are the road-tripping sort.
posted by resurrexit at 11:36 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
The storage was pretty bad in the 4Runner (the third-row seats were almost against the back hatch) for long trips or trips with lots of luggage; the minivan knocks it out of the park for storage. Every seat in our Quest can fold up or down almost or entirely flat, so you can really maximize the space if y'all are the road-tripping sort.
posted by resurrexit at 11:36 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's a bit older now, I guess, but I have a 2009 Kia Rondo. Kia stopped bringing them into the US in 2010, but I've been really happy with mine. It looks good, has been reliable, and has plenty of room for my junk. The biggest drawback is the gas mileage. I normally get around 20 mpg in town.
posted by Ambient Echo at 11:48 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by Ambient Echo at 11:48 AM on September 1, 2015
FWD + snow tires is a better choice for snow than AWD or 4WD without
As someone who has driven his whole life in snowy winters, driven FWD and AWB, drive with "all-seasons" and winter tires, this statement is absolutely true. I would not make FWD vs AWD more than a nice to have in the buying decision. The difference AWD makes is vastly oversold to having good tires.
Spend the extra $500 to $1000 on winter tires and save money on the FWD. Most of the AWDs on the market aren't fantastic versions of the technology anyway. Several turn into FWD above 20 to 25 mph or so. The benefits are marginal and questionable safety or value.
posted by bonehead at 11:52 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
As someone who has driven his whole life in snowy winters, driven FWD and AWB, drive with "all-seasons" and winter tires, this statement is absolutely true. I would not make FWD vs AWD more than a nice to have in the buying decision. The difference AWD makes is vastly oversold to having good tires.
Spend the extra $500 to $1000 on winter tires and save money on the FWD. Most of the AWDs on the market aren't fantastic versions of the technology anyway. Several turn into FWD above 20 to 25 mph or so. The benefits are marginal and questionable safety or value.
posted by bonehead at 11:52 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
OK, I live on a hill and I'm a worrywart, so you can take what I say with a grain of salt. When my husband and I go out together, I can open the passenger door and leave it precariously open (with my leg half out, because I'm wrangling something and the car is damn hot). My husband opening his door and sitting down is always enough to shake my door so that it falls closed. I am aware of this and catch it strategically on my not-in-the-car-yet thigh before it falls too far. I have the habit of being vigilant. But I think it's very likely that your kids will get their hands or arms whacked by doors falling shut if you have regular car doors rather than sliders when you park on a slope. (Park backwards?)
posted by puddledork at 12:02 PM on September 1, 2015
posted by puddledork at 12:02 PM on September 1, 2015
* Handles well in snow
Avoid the GMC Safari minivan (which I am told is equivalent to a Chevy Astro). Even in dead flat Chicago, it was terrible, terrible.
posted by feral_goldfish at 12:47 PM on September 1, 2015
Avoid the GMC Safari minivan (which I am told is equivalent to a Chevy Astro). Even in dead flat Chicago, it was terrible, terrible.
posted by feral_goldfish at 12:47 PM on September 1, 2015
If you just don't want to drive a minivan, then knock them off the list. A lot of your list boils down to, "Minivan? UGH!" That's okay.
Lots of crossover SUVs are super low these days. I drive a GLK specifically so that my disabled mother-in-law can get into it easily. You've already said that the minivan's storage is more than you need. The only thing it's really offering you is the sliding door which you are possibly trading for handling, mileage and resale value.
Get yourself a small SUV. Save the minivan for when the kids are older and you do need to haul a soccer teams worth of gear.
posted by 26.2 at 3:03 PM on September 1, 2015
Lots of crossover SUVs are super low these days. I drive a GLK specifically so that my disabled mother-in-law can get into it easily. You've already said that the minivan's storage is more than you need. The only thing it's really offering you is the sliding door which you are possibly trading for handling, mileage and resale value.
Get yourself a small SUV. Save the minivan for when the kids are older and you do need to haul a soccer teams worth of gear.
posted by 26.2 at 3:03 PM on September 1, 2015
Honestly you will love a Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sienna. As mentioned above, they are made for families. The automatic sliding doors will make your heart sing! I thought I would dread giving up my SUV but everything is easier in my Odyssey! Bonus, fold half the rear seats into the floor to make a stand up space for stroller storage with a flat diaper changing station beside.
posted by saradarlin at 4:50 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by saradarlin at 4:50 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
peanut_mcgillicuty: "* Worse gas mileage than SUVs (is this still true?)"
I don't think this has ever been true when comparing similiar sized vehicles.
posted by Mitheral at 7:00 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think this has ever been true when comparing similiar sized vehicles.
posted by Mitheral at 7:00 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
My parent's Sienna actual drives pretty nicely, as does my in-law's Odyssey.
As far as to much room in the van, that can come in pretty handy.
That being said i got a 7 seater SUV (pathfinder specifically) and i love it. 3rd row is usually down to give me lots of storage (kids travel with lots of crap) but goes up when needed to transport more passengers.
posted by pyro979 at 7:51 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
As far as to much room in the van, that can come in pretty handy.
That being said i got a 7 seater SUV (pathfinder specifically) and i love it. 3rd row is usually down to give me lots of storage (kids travel with lots of crap) but goes up when needed to transport more passengers.
posted by pyro979 at 7:51 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, lots to think about here. I've done some thinking about what we want, but no test drives yet - I have only ever purchased cars from private sellers, researching first to find a few models to consider and then waiting for those to show up on Craiglist or Carfax. We had planned to narrow it down before seeing the cars in person but maybe that's the wrong way to do it this time. Time to stop doing research and go drive some cars! (Very good tip about bringing the car seats and strollers, too!)
@puddledork, the door slamming on kids is one of my concerns, but sliding doors are a hazard too. When we had the rental minivan, my daughter pushed the button to close the door while leaning into the van. I had to throw myself into the van to stop it from crushing her, and it is not like an elevator door at all - I had to push back hard to keep it from closing on us and got a nasty bruise. It would have seriously injured her if I hadn't got in the way. The sliding doors are more appealing for the ability to open them from a distance and for buckling a kid in when the guy next to you parks too close; I figure I'll be standing next to my car helping kids in and out for at least a decade regardless of which option we get.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 8:03 PM on September 1, 2015
@puddledork, the door slamming on kids is one of my concerns, but sliding doors are a hazard too. When we had the rental minivan, my daughter pushed the button to close the door while leaning into the van. I had to throw myself into the van to stop it from crushing her, and it is not like an elevator door at all - I had to push back hard to keep it from closing on us and got a nasty bruise. It would have seriously injured her if I hadn't got in the way. The sliding doors are more appealing for the ability to open them from a distance and for buckling a kid in when the guy next to you parks too close; I figure I'll be standing next to my car helping kids in and out for at least a decade regardless of which option we get.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 8:03 PM on September 1, 2015
In what ended up being our final test drive of the Venza our 9 month old daughter threw up. She was fine before and fine afterwards. Before that drive we were ready to sign the papers but we took it as a sign to go with another car.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:55 PM on September 3, 2015
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:55 PM on September 3, 2015
Response by poster: We ended up going with a Rav4, which I like a lot. My 3-year-old can't climb into it by herself yet, but she can get into her seat on her own once we get her into the vehicle, so I can live with it.
Our other front-runners were the Mazda5, which I really wanted to love but in the end we felt like it was too cramped and plasticky on the inside, and the Forester, which I had no complaints at all about but the Rav4 had better mileage and a better price so that's the one we went with. Thanks everyone for your input!
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 3:57 PM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Our other front-runners were the Mazda5, which I really wanted to love but in the end we felt like it was too cramped and plasticky on the inside, and the Forester, which I had no complaints at all about but the Rav4 had better mileage and a better price so that's the one we went with. Thanks everyone for your input!
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 3:57 PM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
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