Risks of a used Nissan Leaf?
August 31, 2015 10:19 AM Subscribe
It is probably time to replace our current car and we are looking at used, 2011 model year Nissan Leaf cars. Are there risks that we are overlooking? The ones we have noted are below.
We live in Seattle and only have one car but are near bus service that runs all day. Commuting for one of us is by bus and the other is at home so the car is used almost entirely on in-city trips. We want the car for not buying gas and to last another 5-7 years from now.
The battery is, of course, the biggest concern but we are looking at the battery replacement program to mitigate that (or save to buy a new battery outright).
Range is another since Seattle isn't exactly flat. Is 75 miles per charge reasonable? We live in our own house so installing a 220V plug is likely.
How reliable is a 4 year old Leaf? The battery is warranted for 8/100000 mi and the cars we see have about 40000 on them. Do they need much maintenance beyond the usual for a gas powered vehicle?
Have we overlooked something? The Leaf seems pretty good for how we drive.
We live in Seattle and only have one car but are near bus service that runs all day. Commuting for one of us is by bus and the other is at home so the car is used almost entirely on in-city trips. We want the car for not buying gas and to last another 5-7 years from now.
The battery is, of course, the biggest concern but we are looking at the battery replacement program to mitigate that (or save to buy a new battery outright).
Range is another since Seattle isn't exactly flat. Is 75 miles per charge reasonable? We live in our own house so installing a 220V plug is likely.
How reliable is a 4 year old Leaf? The battery is warranted for 8/100000 mi and the cars we see have about 40000 on them. Do they need much maintenance beyond the usual for a gas powered vehicle?
Have we overlooked something? The Leaf seems pretty good for how we drive.
2013 got a better battery chemistry, so it's worth spending a few $k for them because their range and resale value should hold up much longer.
If you want to drive 75 miles per charge, I don't think the 2011 will do that for 5 more years. But 60 miles, probably.
posted by flimflam at 10:43 AM on August 31, 2015
If you want to drive 75 miles per charge, I don't think the 2011 will do that for 5 more years. But 60 miles, probably.
posted by flimflam at 10:43 AM on August 31, 2015
The car will be totally useless on the few days it snows in Seattle. I rented a Leaf once and it quickly went through its battery trying to navigate a few snowdrifts going across town.
Beyond that little thing that made the car quite useless, I quite liked it.
posted by Nevin at 10:59 AM on August 31, 2015
Beyond that little thing that made the car quite useless, I quite liked it.
posted by Nevin at 10:59 AM on August 31, 2015
I own an "aged" electric car (the Tesla-powered 2012 RAV4 EV), I love it, and I'm a huge proponent of electric cars. However, I'd nonetheless be fairly wary of the 2011 Leaf.
As you've probably read, the 2011 Leaf had fairly severe issues with the degradation of its battery pack, leading to this recent class-action lawsuit. Many 2011 Leafs have experienced quite severe losses in range. While several articles indicate that the most severe loss was seen by those in hot climates, here in the more temperate Bay Area, my wife and I know individuals with Leafs that are seeing 50 miles or less of highway range after a few years. It's a real problem.
Per the lawsuit, Nissan is now required to replace the Leaf's battery with its newer, more resilient battery pack if a 2011 Leaf loses 3 bars of capacity (approximately 20-25% of a full charge) if it occurs before 60,000 miles or 60 months. As such, in a best case scenario, you would want to buy a Leaf that had just had its battery replaced under warranty.
However, you will still experience degradation of the battery; if 75 miles is tight but doable now, the Leaf with a new battery may still be fine for a year or two, but you will see loss (as yet unknown) as it ages or in very cold weather, and you'll start to find yourself desperate for a charge. As such, if you don't know how much range you need now, over the next month, take a look at how much mileage you put on your car every day. Think about potentially losing 20-25% of the battery over the next 7 years, and then another 20-25% on top of that in extreme cold. If you never drive more than 35-40 miles in a day, it'll probably be OK many years out. More than that, and the car will become a pain after a while.
The worst case scenario is that you buy a Leaf on the cusp of 3 bars of degradation, and that 3rd bar is dropped immediately after its 60 month birthday or 60,001 miles on the odometer. If you need the range, you'll need to buy a new battery, which will cost ~$5500 - which is fairly cheap as far as EV batteries go, but that quickly will eat up much of the savings you encountered buying the Leaf. Even if you don't need the range, you'll still need to buy a replacement much sooner.
In my opinion, the Leaf has a fundamental problem - it doesn't have any thermal protection of the battery. The Tesla-manufactured EVs have a thermal management system that works to keep the battery temperature optimal at very cold or hot temperatures, and this has resulted in minimal range degradation over time - my RAV4 EV has had very little degradation, and the other various Teslas have fared very well. But without that thermal protection, the Leaf battery has to sink or swim on its own. Nissan says that they've resolved this with their newer "lizard battery," but it remains to be seen exactly how durable that battery will be.
I'd recommend taking a look at Green Car Reports' article Should I Buy a Used Electric Leaf? which will cover all of these bases and more.
tl;dr: People with Leafs really love them at first, and then fall out of love as the range issues get worse and worse. There have been improvements, but how much risk are you willing to take on?
posted by eschatfische at 11:19 AM on August 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
As you've probably read, the 2011 Leaf had fairly severe issues with the degradation of its battery pack, leading to this recent class-action lawsuit. Many 2011 Leafs have experienced quite severe losses in range. While several articles indicate that the most severe loss was seen by those in hot climates, here in the more temperate Bay Area, my wife and I know individuals with Leafs that are seeing 50 miles or less of highway range after a few years. It's a real problem.
Per the lawsuit, Nissan is now required to replace the Leaf's battery with its newer, more resilient battery pack if a 2011 Leaf loses 3 bars of capacity (approximately 20-25% of a full charge) if it occurs before 60,000 miles or 60 months. As such, in a best case scenario, you would want to buy a Leaf that had just had its battery replaced under warranty.
However, you will still experience degradation of the battery; if 75 miles is tight but doable now, the Leaf with a new battery may still be fine for a year or two, but you will see loss (as yet unknown) as it ages or in very cold weather, and you'll start to find yourself desperate for a charge. As such, if you don't know how much range you need now, over the next month, take a look at how much mileage you put on your car every day. Think about potentially losing 20-25% of the battery over the next 7 years, and then another 20-25% on top of that in extreme cold. If you never drive more than 35-40 miles in a day, it'll probably be OK many years out. More than that, and the car will become a pain after a while.
The worst case scenario is that you buy a Leaf on the cusp of 3 bars of degradation, and that 3rd bar is dropped immediately after its 60 month birthday or 60,001 miles on the odometer. If you need the range, you'll need to buy a new battery, which will cost ~$5500 - which is fairly cheap as far as EV batteries go, but that quickly will eat up much of the savings you encountered buying the Leaf. Even if you don't need the range, you'll still need to buy a replacement much sooner.
In my opinion, the Leaf has a fundamental problem - it doesn't have any thermal protection of the battery. The Tesla-manufactured EVs have a thermal management system that works to keep the battery temperature optimal at very cold or hot temperatures, and this has resulted in minimal range degradation over time - my RAV4 EV has had very little degradation, and the other various Teslas have fared very well. But without that thermal protection, the Leaf battery has to sink or swim on its own. Nissan says that they've resolved this with their newer "lizard battery," but it remains to be seen exactly how durable that battery will be.
I'd recommend taking a look at Green Car Reports' article Should I Buy a Used Electric Leaf? which will cover all of these bases and more.
tl;dr: People with Leafs really love them at first, and then fall out of love as the range issues get worse and worse. There have been improvements, but how much risk are you willing to take on?
posted by eschatfische at 11:19 AM on August 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
I would hold out for the '13. I have one coming up on 20k miles, and I am glad we waited until that year to buy. The 6.6kw charger and the better chemistry are worth it. There should be quite a few of these coming off lease in the next year that should be reasonable.
As far as problems, we have had none, except for normal car stuff like a broken AC hose, which was fixed under warranty. There is no perceptible degradation of the battery yet. It doesn't get as cold here as Seattle, but we do regularly drive in the mountains - going over the 2000 foot pass to the valley is no problem.
Maintainance consists of brake fluid changes, tire rotations, cabin air filter replacement, and pulling the battery logs. About $300 so far.
posted by Maxwell's demon at 11:26 PM on August 31, 2015
As far as problems, we have had none, except for normal car stuff like a broken AC hose, which was fixed under warranty. There is no perceptible degradation of the battery yet. It doesn't get as cold here as Seattle, but we do regularly drive in the mountains - going over the 2000 foot pass to the valley is no problem.
Maintainance consists of brake fluid changes, tire rotations, cabin air filter replacement, and pulling the battery logs. About $300 so far.
posted by Maxwell's demon at 11:26 PM on August 31, 2015
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My understanding is the Leaf requires much less maintenance than a gas-powered vehicle.
* Sadly, they don't sell the Leaf where I live.
posted by ssg at 10:42 AM on August 31, 2015