Cheating ex-friend hasn't finished ruining my life
August 30, 2015 7:12 AM Subscribe
I posted this question a while ago. What I failed to mention there is that my ex-friend was also a coworker. I've since moved on to a new job that I love, but now I hear that my terrible ex-friend is thinking about applying for a job at my new company. This has sent me into a panic.
My question is, is there any way I can approach HR to say something like "Please do not hire this person because she has affairs with her coworkers' husbands" without making MYSELF look batshit crazy and vindictive, especially considering (a) I am a new hire, and (b) I will have no way of knowing if/when she actually applies?
Don't ask me why she wants to apply there. It's a great company and she is a horrible person.
My question is, is there any way I can approach HR to say something like "Please do not hire this person because she has affairs with her coworkers' husbands" without making MYSELF look batshit crazy and vindictive, especially considering (a) I am a new hire, and (b) I will have no way of knowing if/when she actually applies?
Don't ask me why she wants to apply there. It's a great company and she is a horrible person.
This really depends on how big the company is. And I think that like in the last question you have buried the lede (advice would have been different if people had known she was a coworker, I suspect). This isn't that she generally "has affairs with married men" this is "She was having an affair with my husband" which is an okay thing to mention as maybe not being a "good fit" if you work in a small office.
posted by jessamyn at 7:17 AM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 7:17 AM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: It's a big-ish company but considering our respective roles, we would likely be interacting for work at least somewhat, not to mention passing in the halls, etc.
posted by a strong female character at 7:21 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by a strong female character at 7:21 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Who told you that she's thinking of applying there? Can that same person tell you if she actually does? Does she know that you work there?
posted by amro at 7:29 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by amro at 7:29 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Please assume that it is factually true that she wants to apply there. My question is how to approach HR about it or if I shouldn't at all.
posted by a strong female character at 7:32 AM on August 30, 2015
posted by a strong female character at 7:32 AM on August 30, 2015
This...kinda sounds like harassment. I mean, she's destroyed your life, stolen your husband and (sounds like?) you've left your last job to get away from her only to find out she's apparently trying to follow you here to your new one. Now, this may not be her plan but it's certainly possible to spin it to HR like it is. And you have enough facts behind you to make it believable. She just won't leave you alone and you're not sure where this will lead but you'd rather not find out and you care enough about your company that you're sure they won't want the legal liability either.
Also, I'm so sorry you're still having to deal with this vile person. I remember your last post well, have thought of you often and wish you all the best. If it's not inappropriate, could you post an update on how you're doing otherwise?
posted by Jubey at 7:41 AM on August 30, 2015 [33 favorites]
Also, I'm so sorry you're still having to deal with this vile person. I remember your last post well, have thought of you often and wish you all the best. If it's not inappropriate, could you post an update on how you're doing otherwise?
posted by Jubey at 7:41 AM on August 30, 2015 [33 favorites]
I wasn't questioning your premise but trying to see if there's a way to get more information before approaching HR. This really depends on how comfortable you are sharing your experience with someone in HR. I don't think anyone would think you are crazy and vindictive if you say, "Look, it's my understanding that this person applied for a job here. She had an affair with my husband. It would be a pretty untenable situation for me if she worked here."
posted by amro at 7:43 AM on August 30, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by amro at 7:43 AM on August 30, 2015 [14 favorites]
At my company, it would absolutely be ok and desirable for you to approach HR and tell them that this person is someone you have a difficult personal history with and would never want to work with. (The sooner the better, because the last thing you want is for someone to decide she is a must-have candidate after interviewing her; that could get problematic.) We're all about harmony and fit and would never go down this road if we had an employee come and tell us this. Can't say if your company will take it the same way. (Also, I agree with Jubey's spin that HR will be facilitating her obsession with you if bring her in. They should want no part of this.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:00 AM on August 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:00 AM on August 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
I will play Devil's Advocate and say you should not talk to HR about your personal problems with someone they are considering hiring unless you would directly report to her.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, you can go to HR, and no, it will not be creepy or weird. You just need to phrase it delicately, and without seeming vindictive or over-share-y (always important at work, but especially now). I think, "Hey, I know you guys thoroughly vet your applicants, and you're good at what you do, but I would feel remiss as a part of this organization if I didn't disclose that there were significant issues with this person at our former shared job. You can act or not act on this as you see fit."
posted by julthumbscrew at 8:12 AM on August 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by julthumbscrew at 8:12 AM on August 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
I hire people occasionally, although not in an HR capacity, and my opinion is that the potential risks of going to HR with this drastically outweigh the potential rewards.
posted by ftm at 8:16 AM on August 30, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by ftm at 8:16 AM on August 30, 2015 [20 favorites]
Wow, no don't go to HR. Was this person a terrible worker? If having an affair is grounds for not hiring someone, the unemployment rate would be a lot higher. Your husband had an affair. That's a foundation-shatterer for sure, and worse that this person was someone you considered a friend. I'm awfully sorry about that. But your question says a lot about who you blame for the affair. Just be careful about bringing HR into your personal life. Once they're there, they tend to stay there.
posted by headnsouth at 8:26 AM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 8:26 AM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
Ask A Manager is a great resource for these type of personal life/work life crossover questions. Alison always give sound advice.
posted by Beti at 8:31 AM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Beti at 8:31 AM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
I would feel around for whether the corporate culture will bear it. HR departments have to deal with personal issues that may intrude on the workplace, like ugly divorces and family drama and stalkers (HR are also the ones who have to process garnished wages, so they have practice dealing with people's dirt). Some companies are better than others, but generally the employee they've already put money and resources into is considered a more valuable asset than a prospective interviewee, which are a dime a dozen (maybe two dozen, in this economy).
You probably need to decide, before you talk to anyone, where you'll draw the line. Are you prepared to leave if they hire her?
posted by Lyn Never at 8:49 AM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
You probably need to decide, before you talk to anyone, where you'll draw the line. Are you prepared to leave if they hire her?
posted by Lyn Never at 8:49 AM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
(Hit post too soon.) I'm not sure I'd go to HR at all but I certainly wouldn't when she is only at the application stage. There's no guarantee she'll even get hired. I think you wouldn't be helping yourself by going to HR with what will sound to them like just a rumor - especially when you are brand new to the job yourself. I'd say give it time. Maybe she won't get hired. Maybe you'll find out that you and your manager have a great, friendly relationship and can discuss your personal life to some degree (my first manager wouldn't have but he left and my current manager would absolutely be in my corner). Or you'll know for sure that there's someone in HR who will be receptive to hearing your concerns (I've met all our HR people and I now know who I could trust). Also, maybe you'll be at the point where you can be sure you can talk calmly about it with your manager/HR. (It hasn't even been six months since your question. I don't know that I'd be able to discuss it without becoming upset but YMMV.)
posted by Beti at 8:54 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Beti at 8:54 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would go to HR and ask who the hiring manager is, and THEN, tell the hiring manager in as work-appropriate terms as possible (i.e., see above comments) the challenges of this prospective employee.
posted by ellerhodes at 8:55 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ellerhodes at 8:55 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
You can scuttle this without making it about your personal life. Just tell HR "I've worked with this person before, and I just want to let you know I don't think that they would be a good fit here". Hiring often puts a huge emphasis on internal personal recommendations and references because an endorsement from someone good is one of the best signals there is; and that works in both directions. I know at my job, if someone applies to a role similar than the one you have and based on your resume you've worked or gone to school with them HR sends you an email asking if you want to write feedback on them, and they specifically solicit both positive and negative stuff.
I would highly suggest against making this about your personal life or any personal issues you have with her, because that can backfire spectacularly. Just make it about her fit and appropriateness for the job.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:56 AM on August 30, 2015 [20 favorites]
I would highly suggest against making this about your personal life or any personal issues you have with her, because that can backfire spectacularly. Just make it about her fit and appropriateness for the job.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:56 AM on August 30, 2015 [20 favorites]
If you bring this up with HR, there are basically 4 outcomes:
1) She's not hired, for unrelated reasons
2) She's not hired, thanks to your input
3) She's hired despite your input
4) She's hired despite your input and someone from HR ends up blabbing to her about your input (unethical, but it happens)
None of us can give accurate probabilities for any of the above, but make sure you're weighing all the possible outcomes when you make a decision.
posted by bitterpants at 8:59 AM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
1) She's not hired, for unrelated reasons
2) She's not hired, thanks to your input
3) She's hired despite your input
4) She's hired despite your input and someone from HR ends up blabbing to her about your input (unethical, but it happens)
None of us can give accurate probabilities for any of the above, but make sure you're weighing all the possible outcomes when you make a decision.
posted by bitterpants at 8:59 AM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
Reading your previous question: is it the case that this person had an affair with your husband but it's over and you are still married? Is everyone out in the open that it happened; it's over and your husband is not in contact with this person any more?
If that's the picture, what this person is doing sounds really creepy to me. Screw this being a great job for her; following you to your new workplace is horrid and kind of stalkery. I'd be tempted to talk to her and ask her what she thinks she is doing.
posted by BibiRose at 9:04 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
If that's the picture, what this person is doing sounds really creepy to me. Screw this being a great job for her; following you to your new workplace is horrid and kind of stalkery. I'd be tempted to talk to her and ask her what she thinks she is doing.
posted by BibiRose at 9:04 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
The high road is great and all, but girlfriend done ran off with your husband, isn't there a way to woman up and deal with her directly on this? Surely you could just give her the old-fashioned NUH UH, YOU ARE NOT EVEN SERIOUSLY TRYING TO COME HERE.
People who have done this kind of wrong sometimes cower and run at the very idea that they might Get What Is Coming to Them. Stop being so goddamned nice about everything. Don't endanger your career by doing anything legitimately threatening (or even implying you would), but can't you just plainly and sternly say, Fine, you have my husband, but I draw the line here, MOVE THE FUCK ON?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:49 AM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
People who have done this kind of wrong sometimes cower and run at the very idea that they might Get What Is Coming to Them. Stop being so goddamned nice about everything. Don't endanger your career by doing anything legitimately threatening (or even implying you would), but can't you just plainly and sternly say, Fine, you have my husband, but I draw the line here, MOVE THE FUCK ON?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:49 AM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would ask a/your current lawyer about the possibility of documenting this and any other signs of harassment for the purpose of filing a peace order against her.
posted by notquitemaryann at 10:13 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by notquitemaryann at 10:13 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Had the same thought as DirtyOldTown, inspired by your own headline to this question. Repellant as it may be to have any direct contact with this person, there's something to be said for calling people on their s*@t. Might be more direct and effective to send a "Hey, really? No, really? Haven't you finished ruining my life? Go wreck someone else's."
I mean, aside from stalkerish and weird on her part, this also seems just dumb. I would not want to work anywhere were there was somebody who had a serious legitimate beef with me and knew the skeletons in my closet. She does know you work there, right?
(But if you go to HR, I agree with Itaxpica's suggestion. You haven't been there long enough and backfire risk is very high with this stuff.)
posted by oneaday at 10:14 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I mean, aside from stalkerish and weird on her part, this also seems just dumb. I would not want to work anywhere were there was somebody who had a serious legitimate beef with me and knew the skeletons in my closet. She does know you work there, right?
(But if you go to HR, I agree with Itaxpica's suggestion. You haven't been there long enough and backfire risk is very high with this stuff.)
posted by oneaday at 10:14 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
First of all, if you work somewhere that you can not comfortably approach HR or the hiring manager with this information, than you might think of moving on.
Second, I really like amro's script, but with one change.... "Look, it's my understanding that this person applied for a job here. I left my last position in part to get away from her, and she is aware she is part of the reason I moved on to this role. She is aware I work here now. It would be a pretty untenable situation for me if she worked here."
If they ask further, go ahead and tell the truth if you're comfortable...
"She was a colleague who befriended me and then instigated an affair with my husband. I have no idea why she now also feels the need to follow me from job to job."
You can leave out the words "creepy" and "stalker" yet still get the idea across.
I can't imagine any company wants to hire creepy stalker persons, but who knows? I don't know the culture at your place.
Your options are:
- To say nothing and start looking for a new job, fingers crossed she won't get hired and you won't have to resign
OR
- Say something to your company, which is another type of risk.
If she is stalking in a fashion, I don't think you should feed the problem by talking to her about her plans. Definitely do not threaten her.
Are you still with your husband? If so, you should not mention the affair. If you are divorcing, then folks already know something happened there.
I hope for your sake your company prefers to hire serious professionals over stalker weirdos. F&ck that, y'know?
I hope it all works out in your favor. My very best to you :))
posted by jbenben at 10:16 AM on August 30, 2015 [12 favorites]
Second, I really like amro's script, but with one change.... "Look, it's my understanding that this person applied for a job here. I left my last position in part to get away from her, and she is aware she is part of the reason I moved on to this role. She is aware I work here now. It would be a pretty untenable situation for me if she worked here."
If they ask further, go ahead and tell the truth if you're comfortable...
"She was a colleague who befriended me and then instigated an affair with my husband. I have no idea why she now also feels the need to follow me from job to job."
You can leave out the words "creepy" and "stalker" yet still get the idea across.
I can't imagine any company wants to hire creepy stalker persons, but who knows? I don't know the culture at your place.
Your options are:
- To say nothing and start looking for a new job, fingers crossed she won't get hired and you won't have to resign
OR
- Say something to your company, which is another type of risk.
If she is stalking in a fashion, I don't think you should feed the problem by talking to her about her plans. Definitely do not threaten her.
Are you still with your husband? If so, you should not mention the affair. If you are divorcing, then folks already know something happened there.
I hope for your sake your company prefers to hire serious professionals over stalker weirdos. F&ck that, y'know?
I hope it all works out in your favor. My very best to you :))
posted by jbenben at 10:16 AM on August 30, 2015 [12 favorites]
Response by poster: Ok, it sounds like I shouldn't go to HR at all with this, which is what I was expecting. I neglected to mention that I have already talked to her about this (through email, which she initially didn't answer because she thought the email was "insulting" even though I thought I had written it in a fairly neutral way) and her response was that she didn't want to close off any potential opportunities for herself.
posted by a strong female character at 10:18 AM on August 30, 2015
posted by a strong female character at 10:18 AM on August 30, 2015
I'm sorry to hear you emailed her about this because now it seems personal between you and her. If she gets hired, she can now backstab you at your new job by turning over those emails to HR and claiming you are harassing her!
Please don't communicate with this person again.
Sit tight and keep your fingers crossed. Start sending out resumes just in case. If she's hired, you're out of this gig one way or another, better to leave on your own terms.
posted by jbenben at 10:24 AM on August 30, 2015 [12 favorites]
Please don't communicate with this person again.
Sit tight and keep your fingers crossed. Start sending out resumes just in case. If she's hired, you're out of this gig one way or another, better to leave on your own terms.
posted by jbenben at 10:24 AM on August 30, 2015 [12 favorites]
She was "insulted"?!? Fuck that noise, the little homewrecker "closed off any potential opportunities" all on her own, when she chose to have an affair with a friend's husband.
Okay, at this point do not have any further contact with her; keep all emails and any other documentation, and keep in mind: she hasn't actually even applied for a job yet with your new company, and there is no guarantee that if/when she does she'll be hired --- it's still a tight job market, and there are lots of good people she'd be competing with.
posted by easily confused at 10:30 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Okay, at this point do not have any further contact with her; keep all emails and any other documentation, and keep in mind: she hasn't actually even applied for a job yet with your new company, and there is no guarantee that if/when she does she'll be hired --- it's still a tight job market, and there are lots of good people she'd be competing with.
posted by easily confused at 10:30 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
If she wasn't a former coworker, it would be weird to approach HR but since you actually worked with her, I think it's totally reasonable to say something to HR. You can honestly tell them, I worked with her previously, I can tell you from personal experience that she's dishonest, unethical, etc. maybe wait and see if she actually gets an interview but I think this would be an okay thing to do. Just keep it as professional not personal as possible.
posted by kat518 at 10:30 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by kat518 at 10:30 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's a chance you can get a away with this (without making yourself look dodgy) if you're very accomplished at such things - i.e. if you're naturally calculating and deft.
There are such people in the world, but you seem not to be one of them, given the example you left in your OP. People good at such things don't need to ask askmefi, and, if they did, they wouldn't start at square one. Cerseii from GoT wouldn't ask such a thing, at least not that way.
You've been offered some decent scripts that could be delivered by someone with the requisite skills. But that's not your thing. The HR person will smell something. Don't do it.
posted by Quisp Lover at 10:30 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are such people in the world, but you seem not to be one of them, given the example you left in your OP. People good at such things don't need to ask askmefi, and, if they did, they wouldn't start at square one. Cerseii from GoT wouldn't ask such a thing, at least not that way.
You've been offered some decent scripts that could be delivered by someone with the requisite skills. But that's not your thing. The HR person will smell something. Don't do it.
posted by Quisp Lover at 10:30 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
You used the words "crazy" and "vindictive," but it is very reasonable to have the strong negative feelings you have toward this person.
Having said this, I don't think you stand to gain anything by involving your HR department in what is, essentially, an interpersonal conflict. Please consider approaching this person directly, explaining the situation, and getting together a game plan for what you will do *if* and when this person becomes your coworker. There is nothing wrong with saying, "You have wronged me, and perhaps you have some of those same feelings about me. Setting aside those feelings, I don't think it would be good for either of us if we became coworkers again. If you are seeking employment here, please consider why it would not be a good idea for both of us." If this person doesn't see the logic behind what you are saying, and ends up becoming your coworker again, then would be a good time to talk to HR...about your departure. You can tell future prospective employers that you are seeking new employment because an "interpersonal conflict" created an environment where you couldn't do the high quality of work that you were capable of.
None of what I wrote above is fair to you, and it probably glosses over a lot of nuances that make your situation unique. So I want to take a second to boil it down to something perhaps more useful: you can control some things (what you do and say to the parties involved, what you do if the outcome here is unfavorable), but much of your anxiety seems to stem from things you cannot control (what your coworker does, how HR might perceive you if you approach them with a warning). I'm trying to suggest that you can relieve some of that anxiety by making yourself the hero of this here story (if that somewhat contrarian idea appeals to you, it's actually a proven psychological technique called "story editing." You can read more about it here.)
On a personal note, it sounds like life didn't give you lemons, it dropped an entire lemon grove on you! The best course of action is simply to do what you think is right, since some of the pain here is going to be unavoidable. If the unpleasantness mounts to the point where it becomes unbearable, remind yourself of two things: 1) you are human, and therefore imperfect, and 2) you did the best you could. Good luck.
posted by Mr. Fig at 10:35 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Having said this, I don't think you stand to gain anything by involving your HR department in what is, essentially, an interpersonal conflict. Please consider approaching this person directly, explaining the situation, and getting together a game plan for what you will do *if* and when this person becomes your coworker. There is nothing wrong with saying, "You have wronged me, and perhaps you have some of those same feelings about me. Setting aside those feelings, I don't think it would be good for either of us if we became coworkers again. If you are seeking employment here, please consider why it would not be a good idea for both of us." If this person doesn't see the logic behind what you are saying, and ends up becoming your coworker again, then would be a good time to talk to HR...about your departure. You can tell future prospective employers that you are seeking new employment because an "interpersonal conflict" created an environment where you couldn't do the high quality of work that you were capable of.
None of what I wrote above is fair to you, and it probably glosses over a lot of nuances that make your situation unique. So I want to take a second to boil it down to something perhaps more useful: you can control some things (what you do and say to the parties involved, what you do if the outcome here is unfavorable), but much of your anxiety seems to stem from things you cannot control (what your coworker does, how HR might perceive you if you approach them with a warning). I'm trying to suggest that you can relieve some of that anxiety by making yourself the hero of this here story (if that somewhat contrarian idea appeals to you, it's actually a proven psychological technique called "story editing." You can read more about it here.)
On a personal note, it sounds like life didn't give you lemons, it dropped an entire lemon grove on you! The best course of action is simply to do what you think is right, since some of the pain here is going to be unavoidable. If the unpleasantness mounts to the point where it becomes unbearable, remind yourself of two things: 1) you are human, and therefore imperfect, and 2) you did the best you could. Good luck.
posted by Mr. Fig at 10:35 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Side note - do you have an EAP? Maybe ask them?
posted by kat518 at 10:35 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kat518 at 10:35 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
i've done hiring before. i would very much want an employee to tell me if someone was coming in who isn't trustworthy. that's really all you have to say - leave all the personal stuff out of it - "i have worked with this person before and she is not trustworthy."
posted by nadawi at 10:43 AM on August 30, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 10:43 AM on August 30, 2015 [14 favorites]
Why not get a local employment lawyer who is familiar with your firm to advise you :)
posted by Mistress at 10:49 AM on August 30, 2015
posted by Mistress at 10:49 AM on August 30, 2015
If for some reason you end up going to HR, don't say anything above the level of personal revelation that you would be comfortable with in a job interview. You're new and the HR people probably barely know who you are. You'll get "screened" by them as surely as if you were coming in off the street.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:04 AM on August 30, 2015
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:04 AM on August 30, 2015
Wow. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I think it's time for you to get legal counsel. This woman is not bound -- and her behavior can't be predicted-- by any of the normal human decency you've been extending towards her. Log everything and be prepared for *her* to contact HR about *you*, honestly. It's time to start treating her like the malicious stalker she is, and get the advice of professionals who know how to deal with people like her.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 11:08 AM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 11:08 AM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
I disagree with the lesson you've apparently taken from these comments. Like a fair number of other people, I really don't see what possible harm could come from meeting, one on one, in private, with someone from HR and saying, politely and somewhat apologetically, "A former co-worker of mine is applying to the company, and we've had some serious interpersonal conflicts. I didn't know if this was something I should mention to you, or...?"
And then, assuming they ask follow-up questions, give them the information they're asking for, and no more: "Yes, I think it's possible it would affect my working relationship with her." And if they ask for more information: "I don't want to go into too much detail, but she had an affair with my husband, and I'm now going through a divorce."
Maybe I'm being naive here, as long as you're framing it as a piece of information they might, or might not, want to take into account - as opposed to demanding that they refrain from hiring her, or actively casting aspersions on her character - how could they possibly hold it against you? You don't have to be Cersei from Game of Thrones to pull this off. You are in the right. State facts, as opposed to speculating or throwing insults around, and be professional but human, and people will be on your side.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 11:15 AM on August 30, 2015 [20 favorites]
And then, assuming they ask follow-up questions, give them the information they're asking for, and no more: "Yes, I think it's possible it would affect my working relationship with her." And if they ask for more information: "I don't want to go into too much detail, but she had an affair with my husband, and I'm now going through a divorce."
Maybe I'm being naive here, as long as you're framing it as a piece of information they might, or might not, want to take into account - as opposed to demanding that they refrain from hiring her, or actively casting aspersions on her character - how could they possibly hold it against you? You don't have to be Cersei from Game of Thrones to pull this off. You are in the right. State facts, as opposed to speculating or throwing insults around, and be professional but human, and people will be on your side.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 11:15 AM on August 30, 2015 [20 favorites]
I don't think that you can go to HR at this point without making yourself looking...not bad or vindictive exactly, since your feelings are understandable, but sort of unprofessional/not having a great sense of workplace boundaries.
If she actually does apply and it's for a position in which she's going to be working directly with you, I do think that you can speak up. Either HR or maybe your manager or direct boss instead or as well, if you will all be working together.
I don't get the comments about harassment and stalking. It seems like your former friend is maybe a bit selfish and/or lacking in remorse, but not at all that she is intentionally following you to your new company to harass you. You two work in the same industry, your current company seems likes it's relatively big (and possibly pays better than the old one?). Your feelings are totally understandable and justified, but people make mistakes and she's allowed to move on with her life too.
posted by thdavis at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
If she actually does apply and it's for a position in which she's going to be working directly with you, I do think that you can speak up. Either HR or maybe your manager or direct boss instead or as well, if you will all be working together.
I don't get the comments about harassment and stalking. It seems like your former friend is maybe a bit selfish and/or lacking in remorse, but not at all that she is intentionally following you to your new company to harass you. You two work in the same industry, your current company seems likes it's relatively big (and possibly pays better than the old one?). Your feelings are totally understandable and justified, but people make mistakes and she's allowed to move on with her life too.
posted by thdavis at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I agree with potential illiterate's approach.
It also really depends on the politics of your current place and your value to them vs. her potential value as an employee (she's not, like, a superstar, or someone with a skill that only three people in the world have, is she?), and your reputation as diplomatic and reasonable (vs. unnecessary drama).
What you don't want to happen is (a) for her to get hired and people to use your personality conflicts as a reason not to promote you into roles where you'd work more closely together, (b) people to regard you as a source of drama, or (c) lots of gossip to circulate.
But, at my workplace, where they very much focus on retaining and valuing current staff, they would definitely want to know. And they have a very high standard for confidentiality, so I could ASK the HR director for advice and then mutually agree on what to share with the hiring manager.
posted by salvia at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
It also really depends on the politics of your current place and your value to them vs. her potential value as an employee (she's not, like, a superstar, or someone with a skill that only three people in the world have, is she?), and your reputation as diplomatic and reasonable (vs. unnecessary drama).
What you don't want to happen is (a) for her to get hired and people to use your personality conflicts as a reason not to promote you into roles where you'd work more closely together, (b) people to regard you as a source of drama, or (c) lots of gossip to circulate.
But, at my workplace, where they very much focus on retaining and valuing current staff, they would definitely want to know. And they have a very high standard for confidentiality, so I could ASK the HR director for advice and then mutually agree on what to share with the hiring manager.
posted by salvia at 11:26 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
In my company we have a departmental HR liaison person who is entirely separate from the hiring/recruiting managers. If such a person exists for you, it would probably be fine to ask advice on how to proceed, and whether and when it would be considered appropriate to bring any adverse information to the attention to the hiring manager.
posted by oneaday at 11:46 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by oneaday at 11:46 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you came to me as a new hire asking me not to hire someone because you both have an issue in your private lives, I think that would reflect very poorly on you. I would construe it as if you are not mature enough to keep your emotions under control or keep your private life separate from your work life. I would even wonder whether I had made the right decision in hiring YOU in the first place.
I know this may sound harsh, but this is YOUR issue to deal with and not your HR department's.
posted by Kwadeng at 12:42 PM on August 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
I know this may sound harsh, but this is YOUR issue to deal with and not your HR department's.
posted by Kwadeng at 12:42 PM on August 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
Find something she loves and threaten to destroy it, subtly. Check mate. Unfortunately I had a situation with a woman like this that was out to destroy me for whatever reason. The only way to get her to halt was to basically show that I was not afraid to fight fire with fire. No one in any sort of authority is going to help you with this sort of insidious yet unfortunately common social fuckery. I am not proud of it, but this type of sociopath really is relentless once they've got you on their radar.
posted by Young Kullervo at 1:25 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Young Kullervo at 1:25 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Kwadeng bring up this interesting victim-blaming perspective that definitely exists out there in the world.
If this person pursued your husband and is now pursuing you from job to job, then you probably want to take the good advice in a few above comments to talk to an employment lawyer just to get an outsider's read on the entire situation.
Following you from job to job is weird sauce. Surely there is some way to get that across without making yourself look badly? It really sucks that folks who completely lack any conscience like this woman seem to thrive under current social conditions and mores.
posted by jbenben at 1:35 PM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
If this person pursued your husband and is now pursuing you from job to job, then you probably want to take the good advice in a few above comments to talk to an employment lawyer just to get an outsider's read on the entire situation.
Following you from job to job is weird sauce. Surely there is some way to get that across without making yourself look badly? It really sucks that folks who completely lack any conscience like this woman seem to thrive under current social conditions and mores.
posted by jbenben at 1:35 PM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
We don't have a lot of background on the field or position or company, but the only thing that would be weird is if this person is taking a worse job in order to stalk our asker. If the job is an upward move (pay/benefits/location/advancement) then this is possibly just a person looking to move up in the world.
posted by ftm at 1:49 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ftm at 1:49 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Look, if I'm the HR manager, and there's a candidate being considered for a role at a company where I'm responsible for harmony in the office, I want to know if that candidate had an affair with a co-worker's husband at her prior gig. It speaks to professionalism and judgment if nothing else.
The fact that in this case the co-worker is now working at the very company where I'm responsible for office harmony is the cherry on top. If I found out later that we'd hired such an obvious problem without knowing we were throwing this match on a tinder box, I would be absolutely mystified that internal references were not checked and given. I wouldn't think less of you. I would think less of you for not speaking up if you knew we were headed for an iceberg.
Just go to the hiring manager and say "hey I understand Tracy is applying for a role here. I worked with her before at my prior role, she was part of the reason I left, and I can tell you with every confidence her style wouldn't fit here." Do assume that everything you disclose will ultimately be known around the office, so if you don't want them to know your husband had an affair with her, don't say so.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:14 PM on August 30, 2015 [15 favorites]
The fact that in this case the co-worker is now working at the very company where I'm responsible for office harmony is the cherry on top. If I found out later that we'd hired such an obvious problem without knowing we were throwing this match on a tinder box, I would be absolutely mystified that internal references were not checked and given. I wouldn't think less of you. I would think less of you for not speaking up if you knew we were headed for an iceberg.
Just go to the hiring manager and say "hey I understand Tracy is applying for a role here. I worked with her before at my prior role, she was part of the reason I left, and I can tell you with every confidence her style wouldn't fit here." Do assume that everything you disclose will ultimately be known around the office, so if you don't want them to know your husband had an affair with her, don't say so.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:14 PM on August 30, 2015 [15 favorites]
I neglected to mention that I have already talked to her about this (through email...)
This is why you need to consult an employment attorney. There is already a paper trail that could potentially, be used against you.
And because, whether or not you go to HR, it seems there is potential for you to lose either way.
If you DON'T go to HR, then there will be no documentation in place showing that you at least tried to inform HR of a possible conflict.
If you DO go to HR, then you run the risk of appearing unprofessional and unable to keep your personal issues from interfering with your work. As others have stated above, you'd have to be very cautious in how you phrase it to HR. This is definitely something I would ask an attorney about.
posted by invisible ink at 2:26 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is why you need to consult an employment attorney. There is already a paper trail that could potentially, be used against you.
And because, whether or not you go to HR, it seems there is potential for you to lose either way.
If you DON'T go to HR, then there will be no documentation in place showing that you at least tried to inform HR of a possible conflict.
If you DO go to HR, then you run the risk of appearing unprofessional and unable to keep your personal issues from interfering with your work. As others have stated above, you'd have to be very cautious in how you phrase it to HR. This is definitely something I would ask an attorney about.
posted by invisible ink at 2:26 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Please assume that it is factually true that she wants to apply there.
This is such an odd reaction to a simple question that I'm wondering if you have been keeping up some sort of communication with either her or your ex or both and that's where you discovered the information. This is speculation, but if this is the case I would urge you, whatever the circumstances - and this has been mentioned up-thread - disengage and seek the advice of a good lawyer, because if this is the case, and this communication has been going on for a while - whatever its nature - I can see this going completely sideways for you.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 2:59 PM on August 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
This is such an odd reaction to a simple question that I'm wondering if you have been keeping up some sort of communication with either her or your ex or both and that's where you discovered the information. This is speculation, but if this is the case I would urge you, whatever the circumstances - and this has been mentioned up-thread - disengage and seek the advice of a good lawyer, because if this is the case, and this communication has been going on for a while - whatever its nature - I can see this going completely sideways for you.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 2:59 PM on August 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
Would you be able to keep working there if they hired her, or would you have to start looking for another job? Does your company value your contribution? If hiring this person means losing you, I think your employer would want to know that.
A former colleague of mine found out that our mutual toxic boss had applied at his company. He told the hiring manager, "If you hire this guy, I will quit that day." You don't have to tell them anything about why; just let them imagine the worst.
Of course, they may decide you're the one who's difficult to work with and hire her anyway.
posted by Bruce H. at 3:01 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
A former colleague of mine found out that our mutual toxic boss had applied at his company. He told the hiring manager, "If you hire this guy, I will quit that day." You don't have to tell them anything about why; just let them imagine the worst.
Of course, they may decide you're the one who's difficult to work with and hire her anyway.
posted by Bruce H. at 3:01 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I concur with Bruce H. that if they really like you, they may be more willing to be on your side about it, and if they don't like you, then...not so much. I do think it's entirely fair to tell whoever's hiring that you used to work with X, you found her highly untrustworthy, you left a job to get away from her and you would probably do the same again if they hire her. You don't have to say she cheated, I think those details enough would cover it for me. I don't think I'd want to hire someone who has that shitty of a past history with a valued employee I already have, especially when there are so very, very many candidates for jobs these days.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:54 PM on August 30, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:54 PM on August 30, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:16 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]