i need these lungs
August 24, 2015 7:37 PM Subscribe
I pulled down the ceiling lamp in the bedroom of my old (1890s-1930s?) rental condo. When I pulled it off of the ceiling, a big circle of gross pink-brown-yellow insulation that had been between the light and the ceiling came falling down in a couple of pieces. It looked like somewhere between regular fiberglass insulation and foam. I threw it away with gloves and vacuumed, and later spent the night in the room. But now I'm being totally paranoid that it was asbestos. Please explain to me why I'm not going to die, and why I can feel okay about sleeping in my bed tonight.
I am by no means any sort of asbestos expert. However, I have friends who deal in asbestos remediation.
Layperson's opinion: if this was not on a steam pipe or heating duct, it may not be.
Also, mesothelioma (the lung plaquing disease that asbestos can cause) takes decades to manifest itself, and a one-time exposure, while undesirable, is not highly likely to be harmful. Others can correct me if I'm wrong.
If you're curious about what this material is, you can bag it up in a ziploc and get it tested.
Anecdata: a former neighbour of my family worked in a plant that had some of the highest recorded rates for airborne asbestos fibres ever recorded at an industrial site in Canada and he died in his 80s of unrelated causes. However, many people who worked in the same place ended up with mesothelioma 20 or 30 years later.
That said, if you're concerned, get the material tested. Asbestos in situ is generally harmless (depending on the application). It's when it's rendered friable when moved (i.e., dusty), is when it's a hazard. That's why water is applied to it when it's taken out (along with other protective measures).
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:14 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Layperson's opinion: if this was not on a steam pipe or heating duct, it may not be.
Also, mesothelioma (the lung plaquing disease that asbestos can cause) takes decades to manifest itself, and a one-time exposure, while undesirable, is not highly likely to be harmful. Others can correct me if I'm wrong.
If you're curious about what this material is, you can bag it up in a ziploc and get it tested.
Anecdata: a former neighbour of my family worked in a plant that had some of the highest recorded rates for airborne asbestos fibres ever recorded at an industrial site in Canada and he died in his 80s of unrelated causes. However, many people who worked in the same place ended up with mesothelioma 20 or 30 years later.
That said, if you're concerned, get the material tested. Asbestos in situ is generally harmless (depending on the application). It's when it's rendered friable when moved (i.e., dusty), is when it's a hazard. That's why water is applied to it when it's taken out (along with other protective measures).
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:14 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ha, I had a similar experience last week, so spent a while reading all the research I could find. It's not true that only people with decades of exposure become sick. There is no safe level, and there is a wave of new cases that seem to relate to diy renovators. But reassuringly (?) I did see research suggesting that we all have some level of asbestos fibres in our lungs, because of its prevalence and people's lack of care about demolition, drilling, etc, but most people with exposure still don't develop disease. A researcher I was reading said they thought it must interact with some genetic predisposition or other yet unknown factors too. So exposure won't necessarily kill you.
posted by lollusc at 8:18 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by lollusc at 8:18 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
+1 that a single brief exposure to asbestos is not where mesothelioma comes from. That's something you get after working in asbestos factories, or living in a house for your whole life with shoddy popcorn ceilings and, like, regularly scraping them and inhaling the dust.
Get it tested, but this brief exposure is unlikely to do you any harm.
posted by town of cats at 8:19 PM on August 24, 2015
Get it tested, but this brief exposure is unlikely to do you any harm.
posted by town of cats at 8:19 PM on August 24, 2015
It might also have been rock wool insulation.
posted by Poldo at 8:25 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Poldo at 8:25 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
That said, if you're concerned, get the material tested.
My very limited understanding is that the difference between a house of a certain age that of course has asbestos, obviously it has asbestos, all houses from then have asbestos and only the King of the Idiots would think that it didn't have asbestos and a house that has been tested and proven to have asbestos is $lots in required remediation or lost value or both.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:28 PM on August 24, 2015
My very limited understanding is that the difference between a house of a certain age that of course has asbestos, obviously it has asbestos, all houses from then have asbestos and only the King of the Idiots would think that it didn't have asbestos and a house that has been tested and proven to have asbestos is $lots in required remediation or lost value or both.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:28 PM on August 24, 2015
Yeah, asbestos exposure should be avoided at all times.
However, when one of my above-mentioned friends was out testing the debris field in a neighbourhood around Toronto after a propane explosion, he was asked by people in neighbouring houses what he was doing with his testing equipment.
"Checking background asbestos levels," he said.
They were horrified. But yeah, there is asbestos around here and there.
Rock wool looks gnarly but it's not the same thing.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:30 PM on August 24, 2015
However, when one of my above-mentioned friends was out testing the debris field in a neighbourhood around Toronto after a propane explosion, he was asked by people in neighbouring houses what he was doing with his testing equipment.
"Checking background asbestos levels," he said.
They were horrified. But yeah, there is asbestos around here and there.
Rock wool looks gnarly but it's not the same thing.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:30 PM on August 24, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. The upside is that the lamp does look relatively recent (see the photo), so that makes me optimistic that it probably didn't have a circle of asbestos insulation included. But I'm still waiting to hear back from my landlady with confirmation — I'll stay out of there tonight.
posted by you're a kitty! at 8:46 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by you're a kitty! at 8:46 PM on August 24, 2015
The other problem is that alot of DIY renovators don't wear proper breathing apparatus when dealing with tear-outs, asbestos or no.
But if they identify potential asbestos, they should really deal with proper remediation. Not cheap, but otherwise they're just chucking asbestos on the curb, or into the back of a pickup, and it's floating over to the neighbour's kids on the driveway.
Anyway, OP, what you describe coming out of the ceiling doesn't sound asbestos-y. Asbestos insulation, other than what's used as duct taping or pipe insulation, is generally attic vermiculite treatment. It only exists as piles in attics. Asbestos can sometimes be in plaster, but you're focusing on the layers that were under it.
So, again, no expert here, just someone who has heard many asbestos stories from asbestos removal people.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
But if they identify potential asbestos, they should really deal with proper remediation. Not cheap, but otherwise they're just chucking asbestos on the curb, or into the back of a pickup, and it's floating over to the neighbour's kids on the driveway.
Anyway, OP, what you describe coming out of the ceiling doesn't sound asbestos-y. Asbestos insulation, other than what's used as duct taping or pipe insulation, is generally attic vermiculite treatment. It only exists as piles in attics. Asbestos can sometimes be in plaster, but you're focusing on the layers that were under it.
So, again, no expert here, just someone who has heard many asbestos stories from asbestos removal people.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Homestly, I'd worry more about errant fiberglass particles than anything. Please take steps to empty and clean your vacuum to avoid recirculating anything, if you haven't already.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Some facts re: asbestos, rather than conjecture. From Cancer.gov, emph mine:
If it was asbestos, you have, I'm sad to say disturbed it, and once disturbed - i.e. broken up, uncovered, airborne, you need to get it removed safely, sooner rather than later. Many people live with asbestos in and around their houses, the danger is once the particles are airborne which yours have no become.
Get someone to assess if the material was asbestos. My understanding is that replacing the light etc is not enough to seal the asbestos and there will still be many loose fibers, hence it needs to be dealt with.
posted by smoke at 1:07 AM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Who is at risk for an asbestos-related disease?No one here can tell you if that material was asbestos, and you should not rely on anyone here to give you guidance for something so serious. A carpenter or anyone in the trades will be able to tell you with a decent degree of certainty after looking at your room/building/the material for about ten seconds.
Everyone is exposed to asbestos at some time during their life. Low levels of asbestos are present in the air, water, and soil. However, most people do not become ill from their exposure. People who become ill from asbestos are usually those who are exposed to it on a regular basis, most often in a job where they work directly with the material or through substantial environmental contact.
If it was asbestos, you have, I'm sad to say disturbed it, and once disturbed - i.e. broken up, uncovered, airborne, you need to get it removed safely, sooner rather than later. Many people live with asbestos in and around their houses, the danger is once the particles are airborne which yours have no become.
Get someone to assess if the material was asbestos. My understanding is that replacing the light etc is not enough to seal the asbestos and there will still be many loose fibers, hence it needs to be dealt with.
posted by smoke at 1:07 AM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am not your risk assessor, but that doesn't sound like asbestos. Try google images for asbestos insulation, and I think you'll find most of the pictures don't look like what you describe. Further, it was much more commonly used around places like boilers, where fire was more likely. Whatever it was, it sounds like your exposure was very short, and to a very small amount. As a risk assessor, if I was the one exposed, I would sleep in that bed.
posted by ldthomps at 7:51 AM on August 25, 2015
posted by ldthomps at 7:51 AM on August 25, 2015
It wasn't asbestos. Surface mount light fixtures like that come with a "doughnut" of fiberglass insulation in the void. They have for decades.
posted by humboldt32 at 10:07 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by humboldt32 at 10:07 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Even though it was pretty old, it did seem to be a flat circle cut for the light, not just weird insulation falling out of my ceiling.
posted by you're a kitty! at 10:12 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by you're a kitty! at 10:12 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Update for any future readers: our expert contractor at work assured me that round ceiling lights come with a chunk of fiberglass insulation, and that's what I was seeing. My landlady's also back and looking into it, but it seems like this is a pretty standard find. Thanks everyone for your help!
posted by you're a kitty! at 11:57 AM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by you're a kitty! at 11:57 AM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
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