dating with a messy past
August 22, 2015 12:37 AM Subscribe
How do I date with a promiscuous/unhealthy past and lots of issues about it?
I'm a bisexual woman, late 20s. In my late teens and early 20s I was dealing with some pretty unpleasant mental health issues. I slept around a lot (fuelled by a mixture of alcohol and Radical Queer Nonmonogamy, etc) and experimented with polyamory/group sex, put myself in situations with disrespectful people who violated my boundaries, and about 5 years ago contracted herpes.
I am older now and I crave a healthy, stable, monogamous relationship. But I have a lot of shame about my past and I don't know how to date like this. I've been trying okcupid and tinder and it's worked out for some shorter-term (by happenstance, not design) relationships...most of those people feel like they're using me to pass the time or fetishizing me, even the ones who are supposedly there for "relationships". Healthy people are not interested.
Even that hasn't been working out lately though. For the past several months (after another bad tinder date with someone who didn't feel like respecting my explicitly stated physical boundaries) I've gotten less and less sexual. I sometimes feel desire for specific people after a drink or two but otherwise it feels pretty gross and unpleasant to think about someone else touching me. I stopped going on dates, which is making my life less exhausting and emotionally draining, but ultimately I'm a mess.
Basically I've lost my erotic self, I feel deep shame about my decisions and my body, and I feel like this low self-esteem just contributes more to attracting shitty energy and abusive people into my life and also contributes to scaring off good, healthy people. I'm trying to be ok with being single but I am feeling very anxious. Every time I see my peers start to pair off and procreate it feels like a punch in the gut and a reminder that I'm a walking bag of dealbreakers.
How do I move forward with this? I feel so hopeless and desperate, compounded by an intense fear of rejection/judgment, and neither my mind nor my body is willing to trust anyone.
How can I fix this and become someone people want to respect and to be in a partnership with? is it even possible? And if not, how do I come to terms with being single long-term and stop feeling like I'm intentionally cutting myself off from normal human experiences?
(I was in therapy for a while and would consider it again but my experiences weren't the greatest. Suggestions for finding a good therapist are welcomed but non-therapy-related answer would also be great.)
I'm a bisexual woman, late 20s. In my late teens and early 20s I was dealing with some pretty unpleasant mental health issues. I slept around a lot (fuelled by a mixture of alcohol and Radical Queer Nonmonogamy, etc) and experimented with polyamory/group sex, put myself in situations with disrespectful people who violated my boundaries, and about 5 years ago contracted herpes.
I am older now and I crave a healthy, stable, monogamous relationship. But I have a lot of shame about my past and I don't know how to date like this. I've been trying okcupid and tinder and it's worked out for some shorter-term (by happenstance, not design) relationships...most of those people feel like they're using me to pass the time or fetishizing me, even the ones who are supposedly there for "relationships". Healthy people are not interested.
Even that hasn't been working out lately though. For the past several months (after another bad tinder date with someone who didn't feel like respecting my explicitly stated physical boundaries) I've gotten less and less sexual. I sometimes feel desire for specific people after a drink or two but otherwise it feels pretty gross and unpleasant to think about someone else touching me. I stopped going on dates, which is making my life less exhausting and emotionally draining, but ultimately I'm a mess.
Basically I've lost my erotic self, I feel deep shame about my decisions and my body, and I feel like this low self-esteem just contributes more to attracting shitty energy and abusive people into my life and also contributes to scaring off good, healthy people. I'm trying to be ok with being single but I am feeling very anxious. Every time I see my peers start to pair off and procreate it feels like a punch in the gut and a reminder that I'm a walking bag of dealbreakers.
How do I move forward with this? I feel so hopeless and desperate, compounded by an intense fear of rejection/judgment, and neither my mind nor my body is willing to trust anyone.
How can I fix this and become someone people want to respect and to be in a partnership with? is it even possible? And if not, how do I come to terms with being single long-term and stop feeling like I'm intentionally cutting myself off from normal human experiences?
(I was in therapy for a while and would consider it again but my experiences weren't the greatest. Suggestions for finding a good therapist are welcomed but non-therapy-related answer would also be great.)
I wish you had included a contact email!
What I will say: I'm a person who used to have a lot of anxiety and shame about my past. Realizing that I was doing the best I could with the resources I had at the time, but I wasn't equipped to deal with a lot of the stressors that come from being young and having experienced a lot of trauma. Being gentle with your past self (even though it feels impossible right now) will go a long way toward self-acceptance.
Sometimes it also helps me to think about how I would feel about a friend who told me the same things about their past that I have in my own past. I would still adore that friend, and I have a feeling that you would also be far gentler with someone who wasn't you if they disclosed their past.
Final thing: any person who thinks you're a "walking bag of deal-breakers" for having a past is probably not the best partner for you.
Therapy will help, and possibly group counseling could be really helpful for you, too - sometimes having a group of people who view you as having value and hearing from people with similar stories can really help your self-esteem and acceptance of yourself.
posted by superlibby at 1:06 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
What I will say: I'm a person who used to have a lot of anxiety and shame about my past. Realizing that I was doing the best I could with the resources I had at the time, but I wasn't equipped to deal with a lot of the stressors that come from being young and having experienced a lot of trauma. Being gentle with your past self (even though it feels impossible right now) will go a long way toward self-acceptance.
Sometimes it also helps me to think about how I would feel about a friend who told me the same things about their past that I have in my own past. I would still adore that friend, and I have a feeling that you would also be far gentler with someone who wasn't you if they disclosed their past.
Final thing: any person who thinks you're a "walking bag of deal-breakers" for having a past is probably not the best partner for you.
Therapy will help, and possibly group counseling could be really helpful for you, too - sometimes having a group of people who view you as having value and hearing from people with similar stories can really help your self-esteem and acceptance of yourself.
posted by superlibby at 1:06 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, stop using the word promiscuous to describe your past if you can (I know it's hard!). It's loaded with judgment, and you are being so much harsher on yourself than you should be.
posted by superlibby at 1:09 AM on August 22, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by superlibby at 1:09 AM on August 22, 2015 [13 favorites]
I'm confused by the advice to medicate yourself. I'm similarly confused by the idea that your dating and intimacy history is unusual. Seriously.
I hear that bisexuality is kinda frowned upon, generally, but more accepted if you are female.
All that said.... Why are you disclosing any of this? Except for genital herpes, this is ALL not really anything you need to disclose, unless you are still dating or desire whatever gender... And even then... Being bisexual is equal to "I fancy you for who you are, not so much what is in your underpants." It's a huge compliment when you like someone specifically!
Keep most of it private and move on. I have no idea about the std part. I know for sure the polyamory and how many folks you have been intimate with is 1000% private and something you never ever need to "confess."
posted by jbenben at 1:15 AM on August 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
I hear that bisexuality is kinda frowned upon, generally, but more accepted if you are female.
All that said.... Why are you disclosing any of this? Except for genital herpes, this is ALL not really anything you need to disclose, unless you are still dating or desire whatever gender... And even then... Being bisexual is equal to "I fancy you for who you are, not so much what is in your underpants." It's a huge compliment when you like someone specifically!
Keep most of it private and move on. I have no idea about the std part. I know for sure the polyamory and how many folks you have been intimate with is 1000% private and something you never ever need to "confess."
posted by jbenben at 1:15 AM on August 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
Stop feeling badly because others are shitty. That's on them. You are the normal one.
posted by jbenben at 1:18 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jbenben at 1:18 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
One of my good friends has a somewhat similar history. She also contracted herpes and thought no one would want her after that. She did a lot of therapy to deal with a painful past and is now happily married.
Her husband respects her for owning her mistakes and being willing to face the music. He respects her as a person and sees it as a positive that she had the humility to get into therapy and face a painful past. A lot of people aren't willing to do this.
In regards to the herpes, after she told him he went and talked to a doctor, go the facts, and once he was informed completely accepted it and had no negative feelings about it. From what she told me it was a non-issue for him and he respected the fact she had the courage to be up front and honest about it. The respect she showed for his health and her honesty was the main takeaway.
Go easy on yourself and act with integrity. The right people will respect that.
posted by deeba at 1:19 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Her husband respects her for owning her mistakes and being willing to face the music. He respects her as a person and sees it as a positive that she had the humility to get into therapy and face a painful past. A lot of people aren't willing to do this.
In regards to the herpes, after she told him he went and talked to a doctor, go the facts, and once he was informed completely accepted it and had no negative feelings about it. From what she told me it was a non-issue for him and he respected the fact she had the courage to be up front and honest about it. The respect she showed for his health and her honesty was the main takeaway.
Go easy on yourself and act with integrity. The right people will respect that.
posted by deeba at 1:19 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
As somebody very monogamous and (I like to think) a pretty decent person, back when I was dating, I would never have considered a lot of sexual experience and herpes to be dealbreakers. Not even remotely. There's a million more important things in a relationship, like kindness, chemistry, good conversation, etc. This stuff doesn't even rate, so please stop imagining it's a huge deal for most people. The people worth keeping around won't care.
What does seem to be a big deal to me is how hard you're being on yourself. Just reading your question makes me want to give you a hug. People treated you badly and that is not your fault. An active sex life is nothing to be ashamed of (really!), but recovering from abusive and boundary-pushing behavior is tough. The fact that this continues to be a pattern makes me think going back to therapy of some kind (and yes, please shop around until you find the right therapist) is a good idea.
I can tell from reading your question that you're a good person. You deserve love. You don't need to change for that to be true. It already is.
posted by thetortoise at 3:00 AM on August 22, 2015 [18 favorites]
What does seem to be a big deal to me is how hard you're being on yourself. Just reading your question makes me want to give you a hug. People treated you badly and that is not your fault. An active sex life is nothing to be ashamed of (really!), but recovering from abusive and boundary-pushing behavior is tough. The fact that this continues to be a pattern makes me think going back to therapy of some kind (and yes, please shop around until you find the right therapist) is a good idea.
I can tell from reading your question that you're a good person. You deserve love. You don't need to change for that to be true. It already is.
posted by thetortoise at 3:00 AM on August 22, 2015 [18 favorites]
Sometimes it's very hard to successfully work through the stuff we did in our past and be able to reflect upon it as choices that we made at the time with various results that we've since learned from and accepted. It seems like you may be a bit stuck on that and you're downgrading your feelings of worth.
This isn't necessarily a case for therapy if you can really take some time to think it through and learn to say to yourself, "Well, that was a thing that I did. I've learned _____ from that experience, and here's what I want in life."
Think of it this way: you wouldn't be able to make these positive, life-affirming choices for yourself today if you didn't have the same past. This is a good thing. We try things, we learn, we can beat ourselves up to some extent but we also need to mark it and move on.
Having said that, I wonder if you're oversharing in your dating life, which kind of means you're NOT moving on. It also may be inviting some creepy types of (jerky) people who are misinterpreting your past as you're up for anything. Your sexual past (and successes and mistakes) don't need to be shared with people in early dating days, if ever.
It's fine to present yourself as, "This is who I am today and this is what I'm looking for," without adding in, "Here's all the stuff I did in my past that has brought me to this point." It clouds the waters and is probably better left unsaid.
posted by kinetic at 5:38 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
This isn't necessarily a case for therapy if you can really take some time to think it through and learn to say to yourself, "Well, that was a thing that I did. I've learned _____ from that experience, and here's what I want in life."
Think of it this way: you wouldn't be able to make these positive, life-affirming choices for yourself today if you didn't have the same past. This is a good thing. We try things, we learn, we can beat ourselves up to some extent but we also need to mark it and move on.
Having said that, I wonder if you're oversharing in your dating life, which kind of means you're NOT moving on. It also may be inviting some creepy types of (jerky) people who are misinterpreting your past as you're up for anything. Your sexual past (and successes and mistakes) don't need to be shared with people in early dating days, if ever.
It's fine to present yourself as, "This is who I am today and this is what I'm looking for," without adding in, "Here's all the stuff I did in my past that has brought me to this point." It clouds the waters and is probably better left unsaid.
posted by kinetic at 5:38 AM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Please don't judge your ability to attract decent people based on your online dating experiences, it can really skew your perception of who's out there and available/interested in you, you need to be super picky and pay attention to your gut. I think taking a break for a while is a good thing. You have lots of time to work on accepting yourself, being kind to yourself, and find a healthy relationship.
Beyond therapy are you interested in doing some sort of mind-body practice? Yoga, dance, massage, tai chi etc.? An MBSR (mindfulness-based stress reduction) course is about $500 for 8 weeks and will give you tools you can use when you're feeling difficult emotions and help you feel connected to yourself and generally better.
posted by lafemma at 6:30 AM on August 22, 2015
Beyond therapy are you interested in doing some sort of mind-body practice? Yoga, dance, massage, tai chi etc.? An MBSR (mindfulness-based stress reduction) course is about $500 for 8 weeks and will give you tools you can use when you're feeling difficult emotions and help you feel connected to yourself and generally better.
posted by lafemma at 6:30 AM on August 22, 2015
I think a good way to reframe this would be "I forgive myself for making decisions in the past that I wouldn't make today." There are no moral judgment on your past decisions; they are just not choices you would choose now.
posted by gt2 at 6:45 AM on August 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by gt2 at 6:45 AM on August 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
How do I date with a promiscuous/unhealthy past and lots of issues about it?
I don't want to be reductionist but the problem here is in the second part of this sentence and not in the first part. You are choosing to characterise the encounters you had as promiscuous, and you are choosing to declare that unhealthy. Neither is true.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:51 AM on August 22, 2015 [12 favorites]
I don't want to be reductionist but the problem here is in the second part of this sentence and not in the first part. You are choosing to characterise the encounters you had as promiscuous, and you are choosing to declare that unhealthy. Neither is true.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:51 AM on August 22, 2015 [12 favorites]
put myself in situations with disrespectful people who violated my boundaries,
It's sad to hear you blaming yourself in this way. No one is responsible for violating you except for the people who violated you, 2nd jbenben.
You were a very young person. You wanted to enjoy your physicality (excellent), and were brave enough to ignore normative conditioning that got in the way of what felt authentic to you at the time (excellent), and you wanted affection and looked for it (excellent). None of the places you looked for it is inherently wrong or bad; there is nothing with you for having done what you did. You happened to trust the wrong people. There are lots of reasons this could be; maybe there are some early patterns worth exploring (possible), but, often, people who violate boundaries succeed because they're very good at getting people to trust them. And it does happen (often) that once someone's been hurt by someone like that, they have an even harder time working out who's safe to trust. But it sounds like you're doing a great job making and enforcing boundaries now.
My understanding is that although people do meet longer-term partners on OkCupid and Tinder these days, there's room for confusion, given that they also facilitate more casual relationships. There must be other dating services more geared toward the kind of relationship you want. You could also take a break from online dating, and focus on building non-sexual relationships IRL for a while, through e.g. interests and hobbies.
I think for processing your feelings about your body, it may help to talk to other people who have been living with herpes for a while (e.g. through a support group, or online - I'm sure communities exist).
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:40 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's sad to hear you blaming yourself in this way. No one is responsible for violating you except for the people who violated you, 2nd jbenben.
You were a very young person. You wanted to enjoy your physicality (excellent), and were brave enough to ignore normative conditioning that got in the way of what felt authentic to you at the time (excellent), and you wanted affection and looked for it (excellent). None of the places you looked for it is inherently wrong or bad; there is nothing with you for having done what you did. You happened to trust the wrong people. There are lots of reasons this could be; maybe there are some early patterns worth exploring (possible), but, often, people who violate boundaries succeed because they're very good at getting people to trust them. And it does happen (often) that once someone's been hurt by someone like that, they have an even harder time working out who's safe to trust. But it sounds like you're doing a great job making and enforcing boundaries now.
My understanding is that although people do meet longer-term partners on OkCupid and Tinder these days, there's room for confusion, given that they also facilitate more casual relationships. There must be other dating services more geared toward the kind of relationship you want. You could also take a break from online dating, and focus on building non-sexual relationships IRL for a while, through e.g. interests and hobbies.
I think for processing your feelings about your body, it may help to talk to other people who have been living with herpes for a while (e.g. through a support group, or online - I'm sure communities exist).
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:40 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Being single is not cutting yourself off from normal human experiences.
Being single for a few months, a year, a couple of years, is not really long-term for someone in their late 20s.
There are infinite ways to be fulfilled in your life without having to depend on or refer to other people, let alone having to have sex with them.
You've had a strong focus on a certain kind of pleasure-seeking for the past few years of your life; you've learnt some lessons from the negative aspects of that. You can't change it or erase the memory, but you can choose to shift and broaden your focus to those areas of your life that weren't so important to your during this time, to allow you to move on from those times.
Stay single for a while and see how it feels. During this time, focus on friendships, family, hobbies, travelling, sport, pets, work, whatever non-sexual pleasure-forms might seem to come first for you (probably excepting large amounts of drink and / or drugs, for the mo.).
Build a balanced portfolio of things that give you happiness, fulfillment and joy at the low and medium bands of the pleasure spectrum, those that you seem to have neglected in the past, before you think about jumping into the deep end again.
posted by protorp at 9:27 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Being single for a few months, a year, a couple of years, is not really long-term for someone in their late 20s.
There are infinite ways to be fulfilled in your life without having to depend on or refer to other people, let alone having to have sex with them.
You've had a strong focus on a certain kind of pleasure-seeking for the past few years of your life; you've learnt some lessons from the negative aspects of that. You can't change it or erase the memory, but you can choose to shift and broaden your focus to those areas of your life that weren't so important to your during this time, to allow you to move on from those times.
Stay single for a while and see how it feels. During this time, focus on friendships, family, hobbies, travelling, sport, pets, work, whatever non-sexual pleasure-forms might seem to come first for you (probably excepting large amounts of drink and / or drugs, for the mo.).
Build a balanced portfolio of things that give you happiness, fulfillment and joy at the low and medium bands of the pleasure spectrum, those that you seem to have neglected in the past, before you think about jumping into the deep end again.
posted by protorp at 9:27 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
How can I fix this and become someone people want to respect and to be in a partnership with? is it even possible?
Yes. Yes of course. Yes!
Look, dating is tough. Online dating is tough. Dating after college is tough. That's all tough without any personal factors. So let's set that aside for a moment.
Part of what a good therapist should be able to help you do — and you CAN work on this on your own, but an outside perspective can really help — is to respect and honour yourself. To make friends with your body again. To befriend that early-20s you again. To respect her, and hurt for her, and cheer for her, and defend her, and love her, and to know that she was making decisions with the information she had at the time.
I like the book Things Might Go Terribly Horribly Wrong for the anxiety and finding a path forward. If I were you and felt my body closing down, I might try something really physical and restorative and solo, like yoga or Pilates or hula hoop dancing or massage or walking meditation or bodyweight exercises. I might take a break from Tindr because it can be a dog's breakfast of pressure and rando dudes, and I might take a few months for just me, like training before a marathon. I might watch every Brene Brown video about shame.
Sometimes your body shouts at you to slow down, pay attention, turn the pressure down. Listen to that wisdom. If you're flinching away, take a pause and do the physical things that make your body feel safe.
Go gently with yourself. You're going to be okay. You are worth this effort.
posted by sadmadglad at 10:44 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes. Yes of course. Yes!
Look, dating is tough. Online dating is tough. Dating after college is tough. That's all tough without any personal factors. So let's set that aside for a moment.
Part of what a good therapist should be able to help you do — and you CAN work on this on your own, but an outside perspective can really help — is to respect and honour yourself. To make friends with your body again. To befriend that early-20s you again. To respect her, and hurt for her, and cheer for her, and defend her, and love her, and to know that she was making decisions with the information she had at the time.
I like the book Things Might Go Terribly Horribly Wrong for the anxiety and finding a path forward. If I were you and felt my body closing down, I might try something really physical and restorative and solo, like yoga or Pilates or hula hoop dancing or massage or walking meditation or bodyweight exercises. I might take a break from Tindr because it can be a dog's breakfast of pressure and rando dudes, and I might take a few months for just me, like training before a marathon. I might watch every Brene Brown video about shame.
Sometimes your body shouts at you to slow down, pay attention, turn the pressure down. Listen to that wisdom. If you're flinching away, take a pause and do the physical things that make your body feel safe.
Go gently with yourself. You're going to be okay. You are worth this effort.
posted by sadmadglad at 10:44 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Every time I see my peers start to pair off and procreate it feels like a punch in the gut and a reminder that I'm a walking bag of dealbreakers."
I also want to affirm that you are NOT a walking bag of dealbreakers. I am also ultra-monogamous and back when I was dating, nothing you said here would have scared me off or caused me to think less of you as a person. (I'd want to educate myself about herpes before any intimacy, obviously, but I see commercials! I know you can have a sex life when one person has herpes!)
I feel no judgment about your past; I only feel compassion that YOU are suffering because you're struggling to come to terms with situations that were ultimately unhealthy FOR YOU. (And while we all have different sorts of past decisions that were not great, we've all made decisions that were unhealthy for us individually and struggled to get past them. Mine were of different sorts than yours, but I also made unhappy and unhealthy dating decisions in my early 20s and dealt with low self esteem and emotional pain as a result, so all I feel is compassion that you are going through the same pain, even if the events getting there were different.)
One of the things I did was affirmatively take a dating hiatus for a year after a very, very bad situation that came with ugly public shaming and - totally not kidding - this woman attempting to perform an exorcism on me while I crossed my college quad. (Memail me if you would like details.) I was a mess, making terrible dating decisions, and exhausting all my friends with my incessant perseverating on my terrible decisions and emotional catastrophicness. So I said, "I'm going on hiatus, I am dating no boys no matter how cute or attractive, for an entire year." Making an affirmative decision that it was a CHOSEN break made me a lot less freaked out about being single, and as time went on, I started to feel happier, healthier, and more confident, and I spent less and less time dwelling on my dating mistakes. (Partly because, in a life without dating, they didn't occur to me nearly as often.) My friends got me a funny beefcake card to celebrate my successful one-year boy hiatus, and then I just kept not dating - and not worrying about it too much - until I met someone I was actually interested in dating. It didn't work out, but it was a MUCH healthier relationship, where we dated for a bit, decided it wouldn't work out, and parted cordially. And after that I just wasn't ever so panicked about breakups or singleness because I knew I liked being single and could be happy that way, and I was a lot firmer about my boundaries because I didn't really mind if my date "dumped me" because he didn't like them. It was like, so what?
It's not magic, I don't know if it will work for you, but an affirmatively-chosen hiatus worked really well for me.
And you are not a bad person or a bag of dealbreakers. You are someone TOTALLY NORMAL who has some regrets about their past, which makes you JUST LIKE ALL HUMANS. No judgment, just compassion.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:44 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
I also want to affirm that you are NOT a walking bag of dealbreakers. I am also ultra-monogamous and back when I was dating, nothing you said here would have scared me off or caused me to think less of you as a person. (I'd want to educate myself about herpes before any intimacy, obviously, but I see commercials! I know you can have a sex life when one person has herpes!)
I feel no judgment about your past; I only feel compassion that YOU are suffering because you're struggling to come to terms with situations that were ultimately unhealthy FOR YOU. (And while we all have different sorts of past decisions that were not great, we've all made decisions that were unhealthy for us individually and struggled to get past them. Mine were of different sorts than yours, but I also made unhappy and unhealthy dating decisions in my early 20s and dealt with low self esteem and emotional pain as a result, so all I feel is compassion that you are going through the same pain, even if the events getting there were different.)
One of the things I did was affirmatively take a dating hiatus for a year after a very, very bad situation that came with ugly public shaming and - totally not kidding - this woman attempting to perform an exorcism on me while I crossed my college quad. (Memail me if you would like details.) I was a mess, making terrible dating decisions, and exhausting all my friends with my incessant perseverating on my terrible decisions and emotional catastrophicness. So I said, "I'm going on hiatus, I am dating no boys no matter how cute or attractive, for an entire year." Making an affirmative decision that it was a CHOSEN break made me a lot less freaked out about being single, and as time went on, I started to feel happier, healthier, and more confident, and I spent less and less time dwelling on my dating mistakes. (Partly because, in a life without dating, they didn't occur to me nearly as often.) My friends got me a funny beefcake card to celebrate my successful one-year boy hiatus, and then I just kept not dating - and not worrying about it too much - until I met someone I was actually interested in dating. It didn't work out, but it was a MUCH healthier relationship, where we dated for a bit, decided it wouldn't work out, and parted cordially. And after that I just wasn't ever so panicked about breakups or singleness because I knew I liked being single and could be happy that way, and I was a lot firmer about my boundaries because I didn't really mind if my date "dumped me" because he didn't like them. It was like, so what?
It's not magic, I don't know if it will work for you, but an affirmatively-chosen hiatus worked really well for me.
And you are not a bad person or a bag of dealbreakers. You are someone TOTALLY NORMAL who has some regrets about their past, which makes you JUST LIKE ALL HUMANS. No judgment, just compassion.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:44 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hey! Whoa. You're OK.
No one is perfect; everyone has made past decisions that they now find to be regrettable and embarrassing. But there are people out there who you might think are tame in comparison to what you're beating yourself up for, and there are other people who might wonder what you're worried about because none of it was any big deal.
I've got some hang ups over a Thing I Did many years ago. I find that as I care less and less, people I get to know care less and less. I also find that it's less and less of their business, even if I'm sleeping with them. I used to feel the need to confess right away, but now - honestly, I don't care about my partners' pasts. It doesn't matter, they're with me now and I'm with them now. Obviously some stuff might carry over like herpes or kids (not that kids and herpes are the same thing, but like, you know, continuing reminders or whatever, things that you can't just walk away from or ignore), but the older we all get, the more likely it is that the people we meet and get along with will have these things.
I think you should maybe not try to date right now if you feel like you need to blurt out all your hangups early on in a relationship. Be alone, very alone, and work through how you feel on your own; you might find that as it fade in importance, that when you get back out there you are less inclined to expose these parts of yourself to other people.
And it's OK. I'm one internet stranger and I'm not judging you. I don't think that anything you describe here was bad or dirty or reprehensible. The only thing wrong with it is that it's making you unhappy now, but please don't think you are bad or broken or unloveable.
posted by mibo at 10:48 AM on August 22, 2015
No one is perfect; everyone has made past decisions that they now find to be regrettable and embarrassing. But there are people out there who you might think are tame in comparison to what you're beating yourself up for, and there are other people who might wonder what you're worried about because none of it was any big deal.
I've got some hang ups over a Thing I Did many years ago. I find that as I care less and less, people I get to know care less and less. I also find that it's less and less of their business, even if I'm sleeping with them. I used to feel the need to confess right away, but now - honestly, I don't care about my partners' pasts. It doesn't matter, they're with me now and I'm with them now. Obviously some stuff might carry over like herpes or kids (not that kids and herpes are the same thing, but like, you know, continuing reminders or whatever, things that you can't just walk away from or ignore), but the older we all get, the more likely it is that the people we meet and get along with will have these things.
I think you should maybe not try to date right now if you feel like you need to blurt out all your hangups early on in a relationship. Be alone, very alone, and work through how you feel on your own; you might find that as it fade in importance, that when you get back out there you are less inclined to expose these parts of yourself to other people.
And it's OK. I'm one internet stranger and I'm not judging you. I don't think that anything you describe here was bad or dirty or reprehensible. The only thing wrong with it is that it's making you unhappy now, but please don't think you are bad or broken or unloveable.
posted by mibo at 10:48 AM on August 22, 2015
most of those people feel like they're using me to pass the time
That is kind of what Tinder is focused on. I'd suggest that you'll be better off focusing more on okc or meeting people in person. Are you doing anything to meet people outside of the immediate context of hooking up?
Nthing that you need to find a therapist that can help for work through feeling shame for your past. What you described isn't that unusual, and while having herpes is unfortunate, it's not the end of the world or dating.
posted by Candleman at 10:48 AM on August 22, 2015
That is kind of what Tinder is focused on. I'd suggest that you'll be better off focusing more on okc or meeting people in person. Are you doing anything to meet people outside of the immediate context of hooking up?
Nthing that you need to find a therapist that can help for work through feeling shame for your past. What you described isn't that unusual, and while having herpes is unfortunate, it's not the end of the world or dating.
posted by Candleman at 10:48 AM on August 22, 2015
Having been in a similar position in my later 20's I can totally relate to this.
In my case, the real root of my struggles was a pretty ****ed up view of the myself / relationships / the world in general that took a long time (and good therapy) to get to the bottom of.
Looking back a lot of this was related to each other and therefore pretty badly self reinforcing. Its really shitty to think about but like a lot of sexually and emotionally exploited children I grew up into a situation where I felt myself worthless, hopeless and utterly lost and understood my value existed solely in my sexuality and therefore continued to be exploited / exploited myself getting heavily into some rather dangerous situations, with dangerous people through a misplaced sense of need / desire / belonging.
Living in this situation was pretty shitty to say the least, but I was able to get out of it thanks to a well timed relationship with an older person who was able to take me out of that situation, the relationship itself was an act of desperation and therefore a long way from an healthy relationship, the mutual dependence kept us together and gave me a sense of normality and propriety.
Splitting up with this partner ten years later was a relief, but opened up a lot of unresolved feelings and issues with relationships, where I worked through a lot of the crap / emotional baggage on other people, until I couldn't take it anymore and had something of the same feelings you're talking about.
Despite all the crap I've talked about I'm going to go against the grain here and see this as a positive step in getting yourself together.
What helped me in this was very good therapy; especially the time I spent with humanistic therapist who really gave me the acceptance I was looking for and helped me apply that acceptance to myself and my life and helped me come to terms with my past experiences and subsequent actions. This is not to under represent the total pain involved to see the depths of myself, but really helped me get over the crippling shame and anger I felt and come to an understanding with myself.
I understand if this isn't really answering your question, or relevant to your experience (I hope it isn't!) but I'm hoping this is maybe illustrative at least.
Its taken several years to get to this stage but in working through this I understand so much more about myself, have a much better relationship with myself and a much more productive relationship with the world.
I'm not sure about "finding the one," especially following the end of my best relationship so far earlier this year, but having my ducks in a row made this so much more bearable, and meeting people subsequently much easier.
At this stage in my life I have a better knowledge of myself, experience of relationships and applicable insight of my likes / desires etc that even if things don't work, I can cope with that.
Approaching my mid 30's and having the insight that I have means that I understand myself so much better but also understand other people better too. No-one gets to their mid 30's without some sort of baggage / hang up / etc, which as someone with a lot of it in the past is at least reassuring.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is you're not alone in this. Shame only has its power over you if you feel shameful. The past is past. People are weird and odd and all sorts of fucked, so its important is to look after yourself. There are good people in the world, but we're all imperfect and trying to do our best, but don't put up with any shit, you don't deserve it.
posted by Middlemarch at 11:01 AM on August 22, 2015
In my case, the real root of my struggles was a pretty ****ed up view of the myself / relationships / the world in general that took a long time (and good therapy) to get to the bottom of.
Looking back a lot of this was related to each other and therefore pretty badly self reinforcing. Its really shitty to think about but like a lot of sexually and emotionally exploited children I grew up into a situation where I felt myself worthless, hopeless and utterly lost and understood my value existed solely in my sexuality and therefore continued to be exploited / exploited myself getting heavily into some rather dangerous situations, with dangerous people through a misplaced sense of need / desire / belonging.
Living in this situation was pretty shitty to say the least, but I was able to get out of it thanks to a well timed relationship with an older person who was able to take me out of that situation, the relationship itself was an act of desperation and therefore a long way from an healthy relationship, the mutual dependence kept us together and gave me a sense of normality and propriety.
Splitting up with this partner ten years later was a relief, but opened up a lot of unresolved feelings and issues with relationships, where I worked through a lot of the crap / emotional baggage on other people, until I couldn't take it anymore and had something of the same feelings you're talking about.
Despite all the crap I've talked about I'm going to go against the grain here and see this as a positive step in getting yourself together.
What helped me in this was very good therapy; especially the time I spent with humanistic therapist who really gave me the acceptance I was looking for and helped me apply that acceptance to myself and my life and helped me come to terms with my past experiences and subsequent actions. This is not to under represent the total pain involved to see the depths of myself, but really helped me get over the crippling shame and anger I felt and come to an understanding with myself.
I understand if this isn't really answering your question, or relevant to your experience (I hope it isn't!) but I'm hoping this is maybe illustrative at least.
Its taken several years to get to this stage but in working through this I understand so much more about myself, have a much better relationship with myself and a much more productive relationship with the world.
I'm not sure about "finding the one," especially following the end of my best relationship so far earlier this year, but having my ducks in a row made this so much more bearable, and meeting people subsequently much easier.
At this stage in my life I have a better knowledge of myself, experience of relationships and applicable insight of my likes / desires etc that even if things don't work, I can cope with that.
Approaching my mid 30's and having the insight that I have means that I understand myself so much better but also understand other people better too. No-one gets to their mid 30's without some sort of baggage / hang up / etc, which as someone with a lot of it in the past is at least reassuring.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is you're not alone in this. Shame only has its power over you if you feel shameful. The past is past. People are weird and odd and all sorts of fucked, so its important is to look after yourself. There are good people in the world, but we're all imperfect and trying to do our best, but don't put up with any shit, you don't deserve it.
posted by Middlemarch at 11:01 AM on August 22, 2015
I also want to drop a little knowledge on you from the late 30s to the late 20s. Everyone's 20s are balls. Your 30s are better. (I assume my 40s will be better yet in terms of emotional healthiness.) My most straight-laced friend, who is a senior manager for a major national company, mentioned not long ago that she spent most of her 20s sleeping with anything that moved, drunk, and snorting cocaine, and I literally laughed out loud because I can hardly even picture it. She takes zero days off work ever and has a literal white picket fence and the nerdiest husband ever (charmingly nerdy, but very quiet and straight-laced), but apparently her 20s were a non-stop orgy of sex and drugs and getting fired for showing up late, drunk, or not at all. She thought I already knew this about her, because it's not a secret or anything, and she's not ashamed of it ... it was just a different chapter in her life.
A different friend, a very well-respected professional who was one of the youngest ever to be hired into her position, told me a few years ago that she spent her late teens and half of her 20s as the other woman in an affair with a married man, who was monstrously abusive to her, and her parents kept trying to rescue her, and the whole thing was like straight out of the Jerry Springer show, and I was shocked because she is one of the most sensible, no-nonsense, healthiest people I know, and I said, "But -- why? You're like so ... emotionally intelligent!" And she laughed and said, "Well I didn't get to be emotionally intelligent by making GOOD life decisions!"
In five years, these things will be so far behind you that people who meet you later in life will be surprised to hear them. People walking around with all their shit together did not get that way by following a straight line through life. They get that way by making mistakes and moving forward, and the mistakes are not a scarlet letter that everyone can see.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:09 AM on August 22, 2015 [13 favorites]
A different friend, a very well-respected professional who was one of the youngest ever to be hired into her position, told me a few years ago that she spent her late teens and half of her 20s as the other woman in an affair with a married man, who was monstrously abusive to her, and her parents kept trying to rescue her, and the whole thing was like straight out of the Jerry Springer show, and I was shocked because she is one of the most sensible, no-nonsense, healthiest people I know, and I said, "But -- why? You're like so ... emotionally intelligent!" And she laughed and said, "Well I didn't get to be emotionally intelligent by making GOOD life decisions!"
In five years, these things will be so far behind you that people who meet you later in life will be surprised to hear them. People walking around with all their shit together did not get that way by following a straight line through life. They get that way by making mistakes and moving forward, and the mistakes are not a scarlet letter that everyone can see.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:09 AM on August 22, 2015 [13 favorites]
Whoops!!
I think I wasn't clear....
Being bisexual, participating in open relationships, having sex with more than one person at the same time, and/or getting an STD aren't shameful and don't make you damaged goods or whatever.
I think the problem is you feel badly about things that are not bad. It's OK if today you wouldn't choose some or all of those things, but the people who do choose them are not "bad people."
#1 don't date people with hang ups about sex.
It sounds like the men you've met on dating sites are mysogynist assholes. #2 is learn how to spot those sooner.
#3 is therapy or meditation to learn how to feel good about yourself! Or do both!! You're awesome. Own that.
#4 is that you might need to develop some social self-defense skills. Again, therapy can help.
posted by jbenben at 11:35 AM on August 22, 2015
I think I wasn't clear....
Being bisexual, participating in open relationships, having sex with more than one person at the same time, and/or getting an STD aren't shameful and don't make you damaged goods or whatever.
I think the problem is you feel badly about things that are not bad. It's OK if today you wouldn't choose some or all of those things, but the people who do choose them are not "bad people."
#1 don't date people with hang ups about sex.
It sounds like the men you've met on dating sites are mysogynist assholes. #2 is learn how to spot those sooner.
#3 is therapy or meditation to learn how to feel good about yourself! Or do both!! You're awesome. Own that.
#4 is that you might need to develop some social self-defense skills. Again, therapy can help.
posted by jbenben at 11:35 AM on August 22, 2015
I was unfaithful to my ex. I do not go the dating route. I prefer to meet men via some shared social circle. I intentionally put out information about who I am and what my past is -- that I was molested and raped as a kid and was also unfaithful to my ex husband -- and men who are going to have a problem with that are free to keep right on walking. I also am medically handicapped, which can be another big issue for dating. I put out info on what my handicap is and how I am managing it. It does significantly impact my lifestyle but, no, I am not just housebound and waiting to die or whatever. So men need to know ahead of time that getting with me will require accommodating my handicap and, again, if that is some deal breaker, just don't hit on me. Problem solved.
I will suggest that it sounds to me like you do not have a relationship to your erotic self and never really did. It sounds like other people get to have a relationship to your erotic self and if there isn't another person in the picture, you don't know how to relate to yourself. I highly recommend you work on that. As part of therapy in my twenties, I did things like drew nude self portraits -- which is how I discovered the remnants of my hymen and I cried because I just thought I didn't have one ever and I felt like I had been "born a whore" and realizing it had been destroyed long before I had memory of it was a big deal to me -- and I wrote my own erotic short stories and so on. I continue to do things to try to express my inner life and my feelings and so on for my own benefit. I have been celibate a long time, but I have a healthy emotional relationship to my erotic self and I know what attracts me, what I need to get off, etc. This was hard to discover for various reasons, but knowing those things is very empowering.
Because I was molested and raped as a child, over the years I have attracted a lot of "nice men" who would like to be my hero. Every "nice man" who ever tried to be my hero had some serious issues underneath the façade. During my marriage, my husband and I were both all too happy to blame my childhood for any sexual issues we had in the marriage. It was always my fault. After 17 years of this shit, I called bullshit on his nasty habit of turning me down for sex and then blaming me for my inability to get my needs met and I quit putting up with it. I will never put up with that kind of toxic behavior again.
So please realize that a lot of these people who are treating you so shittily are just looking for a fall guy to blame and are just taking advantage of your shame and poor self esteem. They wouldn't treat another woman better. They want to get involved with a Hot Mess so they can pretend they are better people than they are while shitting all over you. Don't take blame for their crap. They are just crappy people, and that kind of behavior is a lot crappier than probably anything you have done by exploring things in your youth. Genuinely nice men may like being a supportive shoulder to cry on, so it may be hard to readily tell them apart from the assholes who want to pretend they make a good hero, but they actually respect women and don't treat you like shit and then blame you for it.
You most likely do need to do some work before you can attract a better quality of lover but not because of your past. You need to learn what clear boundaries look like. You need to learn what a really respectful intimate relationship looks like. You need to work on your relationship to yourself. In other words, you need to work on the self you have in the here and now and you need to work on figuring how out how things work in the here and now. It isn't your past, it's your on-going poor self esteem, internalized shame that you haven't worked through and so on that is the real problem. You can get past those things and be okay with yourself.
I spent a lot of time agonizing over my infidelity. It helped me a whole lot to understand what happened in the bigger picture that led to those choices. So instead of just blaming yourself as a bad person, it might help to try to understand the bigger picture of societal expectations, things that happened in your childhood and how other people were behaving towards you. Try to understand what need you were trying to meet and why there wasn't some more socially acceptable means to get it met that you made these choices.
Look at it kind of like a physics problem rather than a morality problem. Think in terms of, like, if you play billiards and ball A hits ball B and that hits ball C, it isn't C's "fault" that it ended up where it did. There was a chain of events and it's complicated. I don't mean you should absolve yourself of all responsibility or justify doing whatever the fuck you want, but it was really helpful to me to understand that it wasn't all me and that, among other things, men can react differently than my husband did and how a man deals with me does make a difference in how I deal with him. So one of my goals is to try to get with a man who will hold up his end. If you read the emotional labor discussion on the blue, you should be aware that most men are all too happy to dump emotional labor off on a woman and make it all her problem. I will stay alone rather than put up with that again.
I now know what I need from a relationship to make monogamy work for me. I know what went wrong in my marriage that I was unfaithful and how much of that is me and how much was my ex and how much was just unfortunate because we both had effed up childhoods. So I feel pretty well prepared to try to navigate this process. And I promise you I spent a whole lot of years feeling broken and having no idea how happy monogamy could possibly work. So I think you can get this sorted. It may take time, but it can be done.
Best of luck.
posted by Michele in California at 1:04 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I will suggest that it sounds to me like you do not have a relationship to your erotic self and never really did. It sounds like other people get to have a relationship to your erotic self and if there isn't another person in the picture, you don't know how to relate to yourself. I highly recommend you work on that. As part of therapy in my twenties, I did things like drew nude self portraits -- which is how I discovered the remnants of my hymen and I cried because I just thought I didn't have one ever and I felt like I had been "born a whore" and realizing it had been destroyed long before I had memory of it was a big deal to me -- and I wrote my own erotic short stories and so on. I continue to do things to try to express my inner life and my feelings and so on for my own benefit. I have been celibate a long time, but I have a healthy emotional relationship to my erotic self and I know what attracts me, what I need to get off, etc. This was hard to discover for various reasons, but knowing those things is very empowering.
Because I was molested and raped as a child, over the years I have attracted a lot of "nice men" who would like to be my hero. Every "nice man" who ever tried to be my hero had some serious issues underneath the façade. During my marriage, my husband and I were both all too happy to blame my childhood for any sexual issues we had in the marriage. It was always my fault. After 17 years of this shit, I called bullshit on his nasty habit of turning me down for sex and then blaming me for my inability to get my needs met and I quit putting up with it. I will never put up with that kind of toxic behavior again.
So please realize that a lot of these people who are treating you so shittily are just looking for a fall guy to blame and are just taking advantage of your shame and poor self esteem. They wouldn't treat another woman better. They want to get involved with a Hot Mess so they can pretend they are better people than they are while shitting all over you. Don't take blame for their crap. They are just crappy people, and that kind of behavior is a lot crappier than probably anything you have done by exploring things in your youth. Genuinely nice men may like being a supportive shoulder to cry on, so it may be hard to readily tell them apart from the assholes who want to pretend they make a good hero, but they actually respect women and don't treat you like shit and then blame you for it.
You most likely do need to do some work before you can attract a better quality of lover but not because of your past. You need to learn what clear boundaries look like. You need to learn what a really respectful intimate relationship looks like. You need to work on your relationship to yourself. In other words, you need to work on the self you have in the here and now and you need to work on figuring how out how things work in the here and now. It isn't your past, it's your on-going poor self esteem, internalized shame that you haven't worked through and so on that is the real problem. You can get past those things and be okay with yourself.
I spent a lot of time agonizing over my infidelity. It helped me a whole lot to understand what happened in the bigger picture that led to those choices. So instead of just blaming yourself as a bad person, it might help to try to understand the bigger picture of societal expectations, things that happened in your childhood and how other people were behaving towards you. Try to understand what need you were trying to meet and why there wasn't some more socially acceptable means to get it met that you made these choices.
Look at it kind of like a physics problem rather than a morality problem. Think in terms of, like, if you play billiards and ball A hits ball B and that hits ball C, it isn't C's "fault" that it ended up where it did. There was a chain of events and it's complicated. I don't mean you should absolve yourself of all responsibility or justify doing whatever the fuck you want, but it was really helpful to me to understand that it wasn't all me and that, among other things, men can react differently than my husband did and how a man deals with me does make a difference in how I deal with him. So one of my goals is to try to get with a man who will hold up his end. If you read the emotional labor discussion on the blue, you should be aware that most men are all too happy to dump emotional labor off on a woman and make it all her problem. I will stay alone rather than put up with that again.
I now know what I need from a relationship to make monogamy work for me. I know what went wrong in my marriage that I was unfaithful and how much of that is me and how much was my ex and how much was just unfortunate because we both had effed up childhoods. So I feel pretty well prepared to try to navigate this process. And I promise you I spent a whole lot of years feeling broken and having no idea how happy monogamy could possibly work. So I think you can get this sorted. It may take time, but it can be done.
Best of luck.
posted by Michele in California at 1:04 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your past does not sound particularly unusual to me. Neither do your experiences of online dating (sadly). I think it is a mistake to think there is any connection.
posted by intensitymultiply at 2:59 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by intensitymultiply at 2:59 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am someone that has viewed herpes as a deal breaker. I want to stress that even when dating or dealing with this, I never, not in any way, thought "I don't want to date them because they slept with a lot of people." Because that shit really doesn't matter except to assholes. What I thought was all about my personal willingness for risk tolerance. It was about me, not them.
Don't feel ashamed of who you've been. None of that even seems odd! That's just a lot of people's twenties! Love yourself and enjoy yourself and don't think of yourself as Having A Past. Everyone has a past, it's not a thing.
posted by corb at 9:38 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Don't feel ashamed of who you've been. None of that even seems odd! That's just a lot of people's twenties! Love yourself and enjoy yourself and don't think of yourself as Having A Past. Everyone has a past, it's not a thing.
posted by corb at 9:38 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
In my late teens/early 20's I was pretty promiscuous too. Looking back now I sometimes try to label it as attention-seeking, or poor boundaries, or whatever negative label I cook up. In reality, I like sex. A lot. I loved screwing different guys, men were a conquest to me like women are to some men. I also drank to excess and took drugs occasionally which got me into situations that Present Me would never get into. I was a slut! I didn't care! Heck, I LIKED being a slut.
I look back on it as part of what makes me, me. Yes, there are a couple people/situations I cringe at now, but I learned from those shitty situations. I don't go over it with DH now, not out of shame but there really is no point in it. I don't expect him to divulge every single lady he had sexy times with, that's his business, not mine. I love him now; what he did pre-Us isn't relevant.
I think you could benefit from taking a break and working on yourself for a while. You're ready to transition to a permanent, intimate relationship and it won't be found on tinder (maybe on okcupid or a more traditional dating website). Work on loving yourself and accepting yourself and I bet love will find you. Don't let your herpes make you feel unlovable, I know lots of people who have it and are in healthy stable long term relationships.
You're not a bad person because you did some things you wouldn't do today. Bonus, you probably learned some great sex that you can bring into a real relationship when that comes. Let me repeat, you are not a bad person, you are a person who is changing into a better more whole person.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 9:42 AM on August 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
I look back on it as part of what makes me, me. Yes, there are a couple people/situations I cringe at now, but I learned from those shitty situations. I don't go over it with DH now, not out of shame but there really is no point in it. I don't expect him to divulge every single lady he had sexy times with, that's his business, not mine. I love him now; what he did pre-Us isn't relevant.
I think you could benefit from taking a break and working on yourself for a while. You're ready to transition to a permanent, intimate relationship and it won't be found on tinder (maybe on okcupid or a more traditional dating website). Work on loving yourself and accepting yourself and I bet love will find you. Don't let your herpes make you feel unlovable, I know lots of people who have it and are in healthy stable long term relationships.
You're not a bad person because you did some things you wouldn't do today. Bonus, you probably learned some great sex that you can bring into a real relationship when that comes. Let me repeat, you are not a bad person, you are a person who is changing into a better more whole person.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 9:42 AM on August 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
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posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:55 AM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]