Should I come clean about activity on Ashley Madison (married version)?
August 21, 2015 2:57 PM Subscribe
My email was in the Ashley Madison leak, and I am married. Should I fess up now?
Background:
Have you ever seen Ashley Madison's awful commercial where a bunch of obnoxious overgrown frat boy types sing "I'm looking for someone other than my wife?" Well, I wasn't looking for someone else. I wanted my wife and my wife only, but she didn't seem to want me. For a long time. It's complicated, and deeply painful, and I think if I sat down with you and told you our whole story you might feel at least a bit of compassion for me (and her). Or you might think I'm just kind of a pathetic dumbass. I doubt you'd think that I really deserve to have the private details of my life publicly aired. Because underneath it all, my story is probably a fairly typical shit-show of personal emotional and relational turmoil that is ultimately not anyone else's business.
I tried everything to make things better and I stewed a lot about the lack of closeness, affection, and physical intimacy in my marriage. I kept hearing Dan Savage say, "Sometimes you have to do what you have to do in order to stay married and stay sane." That's what I wanted--to stay married. Or Esther Perel saying: "There are many ways that we betray our partner: with contempt, with neglect, with indifference, with violence. Sexual betrayal is only one way to hurt a partner. In other words, the victim of an affair is not always the victim of the marriage." That rang true. I started to feel a bit nutty to be honest, and FWIW, have been in therapy for more than a year now.
One day while feeling particularly depressed and resentful I registered for an AM account, using my standard personal email account (mainly out of sheer laziness, ignoring that little voice inside my head telling me to first just create a burner account). I also used my cc to pay for a minimal number of credits to communicate with others on the site (about $75). And guess what? Over a couple of months I actually did end up corresponding with a couple of real people—both SAHMs who were also feeling unfulfilled and neglected in their marriages and were just kind of curious about this silly cheating service. We commiserated and chatted and shared some details about our lives. There was a bit of erotic chat directed at me from one of them, which I have to say I found more amusing than anything. We never met up in person or physically cheated; we agreed it was a bridge too far, didn't feel right at all, and that our families were too important. End of story. It was a nice boost for my fragile little ego though, getting to think that maybe I wasn't a middle-aged troll and that someone out there might like to have sex with me (SEE ALSO: personal sexual and relationship history; lifelong self esteem issues; cultural messages about what it means to be a man; etc.). Ultimately it helped me kind of clarify things in my head about regarding infidelity.
So what now? You think I should come clean with my wife about this? Our relationships is in a somewhat better place now, but that feels tenuous. I'm leaning towards yes because I really don't want her to be blindsided by someone presenting her with the evidence. I'd rather she were able to say: "Yeah, he told me about that. We've gone through some tough times and he was acting out. Nothing ever happened. [and fuck off btw]" On the other hand, the whole thing could blow over. This was just me struggling and coping in private, and could remain that way, which is what I'd prefer. I'm not a monstrous philanderer, just a flawed human being.
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tl;dr
I used Ashley Madison to try cheating on for size because I was unhappy in my marriage. It wasn't a good fit. Realistically my data and identity is exposed at some level (how much that is remains to be seen). Should I pre-emptively fess up?
Background:
Have you ever seen Ashley Madison's awful commercial where a bunch of obnoxious overgrown frat boy types sing "I'm looking for someone other than my wife?" Well, I wasn't looking for someone else. I wanted my wife and my wife only, but she didn't seem to want me. For a long time. It's complicated, and deeply painful, and I think if I sat down with you and told you our whole story you might feel at least a bit of compassion for me (and her). Or you might think I'm just kind of a pathetic dumbass. I doubt you'd think that I really deserve to have the private details of my life publicly aired. Because underneath it all, my story is probably a fairly typical shit-show of personal emotional and relational turmoil that is ultimately not anyone else's business.
I tried everything to make things better and I stewed a lot about the lack of closeness, affection, and physical intimacy in my marriage. I kept hearing Dan Savage say, "Sometimes you have to do what you have to do in order to stay married and stay sane." That's what I wanted--to stay married. Or Esther Perel saying: "There are many ways that we betray our partner: with contempt, with neglect, with indifference, with violence. Sexual betrayal is only one way to hurt a partner. In other words, the victim of an affair is not always the victim of the marriage." That rang true. I started to feel a bit nutty to be honest, and FWIW, have been in therapy for more than a year now.
One day while feeling particularly depressed and resentful I registered for an AM account, using my standard personal email account (mainly out of sheer laziness, ignoring that little voice inside my head telling me to first just create a burner account). I also used my cc to pay for a minimal number of credits to communicate with others on the site (about $75). And guess what? Over a couple of months I actually did end up corresponding with a couple of real people—both SAHMs who were also feeling unfulfilled and neglected in their marriages and were just kind of curious about this silly cheating service. We commiserated and chatted and shared some details about our lives. There was a bit of erotic chat directed at me from one of them, which I have to say I found more amusing than anything. We never met up in person or physically cheated; we agreed it was a bridge too far, didn't feel right at all, and that our families were too important. End of story. It was a nice boost for my fragile little ego though, getting to think that maybe I wasn't a middle-aged troll and that someone out there might like to have sex with me (SEE ALSO: personal sexual and relationship history; lifelong self esteem issues; cultural messages about what it means to be a man; etc.). Ultimately it helped me kind of clarify things in my head about regarding infidelity.
So what now? You think I should come clean with my wife about this? Our relationships is in a somewhat better place now, but that feels tenuous. I'm leaning towards yes because I really don't want her to be blindsided by someone presenting her with the evidence. I'd rather she were able to say: "Yeah, he told me about that. We've gone through some tough times and he was acting out. Nothing ever happened. [and fuck off btw]" On the other hand, the whole thing could blow over. This was just me struggling and coping in private, and could remain that way, which is what I'd prefer. I'm not a monstrous philanderer, just a flawed human being.
-----
tl;dr
I used Ashley Madison to try cheating on for size because I was unhappy in my marriage. It wasn't a good fit. Realistically my data and identity is exposed at some level (how much that is remains to be seen). Should I pre-emptively fess up?
You probably should, but you might want to stick to this side of your story:
It was a nice boost for my fragile little ego though, getting to think that maybe I wasn't a middle-aged troll and that someone out there might like to have sex with me (SEE ALSO: personal sexual and relationship history; lifelong self esteem issues; cultural messages about what it means to be a man; etc.). Ultimately it helped me kind of clarify things in my head about regarding infidelity.
rather than the justifications, which come down to "I was considering having sex with someone outside the relationship without consent from my partner who was operating under an assumption of a monogamy agreement."
posted by Lyn Never at 3:01 PM on August 21, 2015 [30 favorites]
It was a nice boost for my fragile little ego though, getting to think that maybe I wasn't a middle-aged troll and that someone out there might like to have sex with me (SEE ALSO: personal sexual and relationship history; lifelong self esteem issues; cultural messages about what it means to be a man; etc.). Ultimately it helped me kind of clarify things in my head about regarding infidelity.
rather than the justifications, which come down to "I was considering having sex with someone outside the relationship without consent from my partner who was operating under an assumption of a monogamy agreement."
posted by Lyn Never at 3:01 PM on August 21, 2015 [30 favorites]
Yes, I agree with Lyn Never. I never want to hear "I was going to cheat because of what you did to me"; regardless of your wife's behavior, lying is not a good look.
posted by easter queen at 3:03 PM on August 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by easter queen at 3:03 PM on August 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
It is not unlikely that this will come out eventually. It is not a hard thing to search for. Tell her and drop your justifications. You messed up.
posted by rubster at 3:03 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rubster at 3:03 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
She probably has already looked you up.
posted by michaelh at 3:16 PM on August 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by michaelh at 3:16 PM on August 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
How likely is it that she would suspect you of cheating? How likely is it that people who know you would suspect you of cheating? If it's at least somewhat likely, then...you know what to do.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:17 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:17 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it depends on whether or not you and your wife have generally the same opinion about what was going on in that unhappy period in your lives several years ago. Are you guys on the same page about what was going on back then?
And it also depends on what's going to happen to your marriage if you come clean. It sounds like you both worked pretty hard to recover from what was going on, and you both want to remain happily married.
Or, if your relationship is tenuous now, will coming clean allow you to start a new discussion that will help move you both forward.
I think that if you have the best interests of remaining married at heart, being pragmatic is the best course of action.
posted by Nevin at 3:19 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
And it also depends on what's going to happen to your marriage if you come clean. It sounds like you both worked pretty hard to recover from what was going on, and you both want to remain happily married.
Or, if your relationship is tenuous now, will coming clean allow you to start a new discussion that will help move you both forward.
I think that if you have the best interests of remaining married at heart, being pragmatic is the best course of action.
posted by Nevin at 3:19 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
As and when you tell your wife, you need to be a lot more straightforward and honest with her than you have been here. You actively went looking for someone to cheat with, and the fact that you didn't physically consummate anything in person was more by luck than by judgement it seems. You need to be brutally honest with yourself as well - you weren't "trying cheating on for size" as much as you were actually being at the very least emotionally unfaithful. If she's anything like a lot of us, she will have a lot of very pointed questions about who said / did what to / with whom (noting the point about no physical contact). At the very least, if my husband said he'd been talking to a stranger about our marriage in any negative way, I'd be mortified, angry and very hurt.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 3:19 PM on August 21, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 3:19 PM on August 21, 2015 [17 favorites]
Another vote for tell. You're human, humans mess up, even when they are doing the best they can. No doubt your wife has her own share of things she might have done in that same vein. If your relationship is fairly healthy, chances are she will understand and forgive. But whatever happens, I'd rather be married to someone with the guts to own up to their mistakes than the coward who lets me discover them another way.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:21 PM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:21 PM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
You're not a pathetic dumbass, you were obviously lacking something important in your marriage and you plainly sought that out externally to fulfill that need. Sounds normal to me. Placing a huge amount of guilt upon yourself is a slippery slope. What you did was not a good thing, but I would not condemn you for it either.
Can you share more about what exactly was causing you to do this in the first place? What is the root cause? Was there something in particular your wife was doing, was not doing, the both of you doing or not doing, etc. that was affecting your relationship in this way?
Is your wife in therapy too? Did you ever talk to her about these things you are missing in your relationship, and how the both of you might work on or get them back (if you ever had them in the first place...)? It takes two to tango, etc.
If you want to bring up the Ashley Madison thing or not, that's your call. But blunt honesty is kind of a good thing IMHO. To me, the most important thing is to figure out if you both want to salvage your marriage or not, regardless of who did what. 'Tenuous' doesn't sound like any fun at all.
posted by kilohertz at 3:22 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Can you share more about what exactly was causing you to do this in the first place? What is the root cause? Was there something in particular your wife was doing, was not doing, the both of you doing or not doing, etc. that was affecting your relationship in this way?
Is your wife in therapy too? Did you ever talk to her about these things you are missing in your relationship, and how the both of you might work on or get them back (if you ever had them in the first place...)? It takes two to tango, etc.
If you want to bring up the Ashley Madison thing or not, that's your call. But blunt honesty is kind of a good thing IMHO. To me, the most important thing is to figure out if you both want to salvage your marriage or not, regardless of who did what. 'Tenuous' doesn't sound like any fun at all.
posted by kilohertz at 3:22 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think you should tell her because news like this is far less shattering to find out from the source rather than another way. In this particular situation, it's even more important because she can literally look up your email in 20 seconds on a bunch of different websites created just for this.
I'd be surprised if she hasn't already.
posted by _Mona_ at 3:25 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd be surprised if she hasn't already.
posted by _Mona_ at 3:25 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would imagine your rationales for cheating would hurt as much as the confession: I did it, but because you weren't there for me.
My thoughts are it would depend on these things:
1) is it likely she would find out?
2) is this part of your marriage far enough behind you that the healing has taken place?
If the answers to the above are 1) no, 2) yes, then, maybe spare her the pain.
If it is any other combination of answers, then tell her. Maybe look into a marriage counselor first.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:42 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
My thoughts are it would depend on these things:
1) is it likely she would find out?
2) is this part of your marriage far enough behind you that the healing has taken place?
If the answers to the above are 1) no, 2) yes, then, maybe spare her the pain.
If it is any other combination of answers, then tell her. Maybe look into a marriage counselor first.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:42 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
FWIW the Ashley Madison registration system is unverified. I could sign you or anyone else in this thread up. The Ashley Madison database is not a database of everyone who is having an affair; it's a database of everyone who's email address is registered at Ashley Madison.
A ton of public figures are being "busted" for being members when there is no evidence they ever signed up. Yes, she can look you up; you can also look her up. Finding her email is not indicative of anything, including the fundamental question of whether she ever signed herself up.
I got a "you might want to reset your password" from Ashley Madison today. My first thought was that someone had used my (very public) email to create an account at some point. It wasn't until later that I remembered I had in fact signed up at one point. While sitting on the couch next to my husband, because we'd just watched a TV segment on it and I am really nosey and wanted to see who in my area I knew who might be signed up.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:53 PM on August 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
A ton of public figures are being "busted" for being members when there is no evidence they ever signed up. Yes, she can look you up; you can also look her up. Finding her email is not indicative of anything, including the fundamental question of whether she ever signed herself up.
I got a "you might want to reset your password" from Ashley Madison today. My first thought was that someone had used my (very public) email to create an account at some point. It wasn't until later that I remembered I had in fact signed up at one point. While sitting on the couch next to my husband, because we'd just watched a TV segment on it and I am really nosey and wanted to see who in my area I knew who might be signed up.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:53 PM on August 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
Tell, or someone might tell for you or blackmail you Krebs on security: extortionists target Ashley Madison users
posted by TheAdamist at 3:55 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by TheAdamist at 3:55 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree with Nevin that much about her reaction will depend on whether your wife is on the same page about that period in your life. When I found out my ex was cheating, he had a lot of the same reasons that you give here. But I didn't experience our marriage in the same way. So the different vision of our shared past hurt me a lot more than the affair itself.
FWIW, I don't think you're a horrible person, and I don't buy this "you tried to cheat which is as good as cheating" business. You were trying to find a solution to your problems without confronting them head on, which is weak-- for sure-- but a weakness which we've all been guilty of having at one point or another. I think the hackers who did this are much more horrible than anyone they're exposing. Worse, really, since they're dressing up their betrayal in tones of morality.
Unfortunately for you, my opinion doesn't matter. Your wife's does. I think you are going to need to come clean since discovery is imminent. As others have said, I would just tell her the truth. You mentioned being in therapy, so your therapist may be able to help you structure the conversation. Don't make excuses, and definitely don't lie or minimize. Take your lumps and tell her that you love her. And hope for the best-- not much else you can do.
posted by frumiousb at 3:57 PM on August 21, 2015 [24 favorites]
FWIW, I don't think you're a horrible person, and I don't buy this "you tried to cheat which is as good as cheating" business. You were trying to find a solution to your problems without confronting them head on, which is weak-- for sure-- but a weakness which we've all been guilty of having at one point or another. I think the hackers who did this are much more horrible than anyone they're exposing. Worse, really, since they're dressing up their betrayal in tones of morality.
Unfortunately for you, my opinion doesn't matter. Your wife's does. I think you are going to need to come clean since discovery is imminent. As others have said, I would just tell her the truth. You mentioned being in therapy, so your therapist may be able to help you structure the conversation. Don't make excuses, and definitely don't lie or minimize. Take your lumps and tell her that you love her. And hope for the best-- not much else you can do.
posted by frumiousb at 3:57 PM on August 21, 2015 [24 favorites]
I vote for telling because you want to stay together, and while I know better, this is way too public, and how it gets to your wife is the lookie-loos of the world get curious, find an email they know, tell a friend or a family member, if they aren't in that circle already, who tell your wife. Then her imagination takes over. Better to have her know and shut down a Nosy Ned/Nora or gossip by saying she knows, it's not salacious, and it's information best forgotten by The Tell.
You can't change the past. Don't delete the emails. Ask her what she wants to know. She may want to trust your summary, because the details could drive her crazy. Give her the option of looking at them, or save them until she says delete them, or for a month, whatever is earlier, for her to read them (only) because regaining trust is huge.
Recognize that you created this damage. You had some role in the previous lack of intimacy. What have you learned from it that makes you a better partner now for connecting with her on intimate things such as sharing this colossal mistake, being ready to work with her response over time in a way that is healthy for both of you? Consider running this past your therapist if you haven't already.
posted by childofTethys at 4:06 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
You can't change the past. Don't delete the emails. Ask her what she wants to know. She may want to trust your summary, because the details could drive her crazy. Give her the option of looking at them, or save them until she says delete them, or for a month, whatever is earlier, for her to read them (only) because regaining trust is huge.
Recognize that you created this damage. You had some role in the previous lack of intimacy. What have you learned from it that makes you a better partner now for connecting with her on intimate things such as sharing this colossal mistake, being ready to work with her response over time in a way that is healthy for both of you? Consider running this past your therapist if you haven't already.
posted by childofTethys at 4:06 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
My (now ex) husband cheated on me. He did not come clean. Someone presented the evidence to me. Coming from that perspective: tell her.
Having the evidence presented to you sucks. I wasn't completely blindsided, I didn't have any cheating suspicions, but I knew that our relationship wasn't where it had been and wasn't where I wanted it. Had he told me first, it would have been ok. Well, not ok, but easier to understand, talk about, and accept. As it played out, I had no time to formulate thoughts before I had to react to some fairly heavy news in front of a mutual friend not at all involved in the situation. I then did my own digging and found more evidence and, by this time, my thoughts were exaggerated and extreme. The conversation, though I tried to remain calm, was heated and emotional from the get go. I had to confront him with this knowledge in order to talk about it, which was not fair to either of us.
If I could go back in time, I'd want it to play out just about any other way possible. Me finding out on my own, him telling me, heck, even being told by the girl he was screwing around with. Any of those would have been better. For her sake and yours, tell her. The pain that could come from someone else telling her is just not worth it.
Your wife is not me and you know how to communicate with her. But I would suggest being honest and open and offering her space to think about & absorb the news before talking about it some more. Give her the info directly and plainly, don't embellish or excuse it. Let her know that it was during the rough patch. That you are happy that your marriage is no longer at a point where that seems like a viable outlet. And, if you want to work on the marriage, let her know that too.
posted by imbri at 4:11 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
Having the evidence presented to you sucks. I wasn't completely blindsided, I didn't have any cheating suspicions, but I knew that our relationship wasn't where it had been and wasn't where I wanted it. Had he told me first, it would have been ok. Well, not ok, but easier to understand, talk about, and accept. As it played out, I had no time to formulate thoughts before I had to react to some fairly heavy news in front of a mutual friend not at all involved in the situation. I then did my own digging and found more evidence and, by this time, my thoughts were exaggerated and extreme. The conversation, though I tried to remain calm, was heated and emotional from the get go. I had to confront him with this knowledge in order to talk about it, which was not fair to either of us.
If I could go back in time, I'd want it to play out just about any other way possible. Me finding out on my own, him telling me, heck, even being told by the girl he was screwing around with. Any of those would have been better. For her sake and yours, tell her. The pain that could come from someone else telling her is just not worth it.
Your wife is not me and you know how to communicate with her. But I would suggest being honest and open and offering her space to think about & absorb the news before talking about it some more. Give her the info directly and plainly, don't embellish or excuse it. Let her know that it was during the rough patch. That you are happy that your marriage is no longer at a point where that seems like a viable outlet. And, if you want to work on the marriage, let her know that too.
posted by imbri at 4:11 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
Darling Bri....that email also sounds like opportunistic phishing.
posted by childofTethys at 4:15 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by childofTethys at 4:15 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
"From about Month/Year to Month/Year, I was having a really hard time in our marriage. One of the things I did to cope in my hard times was a mistake. I signed up for Ashley Madison. I talked to 3 women in that virtual-space, but I never met anyone in flesh-space from the website. I love you and want to stay married. I will truthfully answer any questions you have of me."
Then let the conversation flow. Be prepared for her to express all manner of emotions, and be prepared to validate those emotions.
posted by Doc_Sock at 4:16 PM on August 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Then let the conversation flow. Be prepared for her to express all manner of emotions, and be prepared to validate those emotions.
posted by Doc_Sock at 4:16 PM on August 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Darling Bri....that email also sounds like opportunistic phishing.
Nope, it's the real deal. Only link goes to the lost login page.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:20 PM on August 21, 2015
Nope, it's the real deal. Only link goes to the lost login page.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:20 PM on August 21, 2015
This is different than other situations because you used your credit card and messaged people. All of that info is extant. Tell your wife ASAP before someone else does.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:30 PM on August 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:30 PM on August 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
If I were in her shoes, the biggest thing I'd want to see that's completely absent here is a recognition that this was a shitty coping mechanism, and you are committed to improving your reactions to stress and improving your relationship.
Going to therapy certainly signals that you're looking to be happier. And hopefully one of your goals in therapy is looking for healthier coping mechanisms. But it doesn't sound like you've addressed any of the issues in your relationship. The fact that you say it's still tenuous sounds like there's an ebb and flow, and you're currently enjoying a less stressful reprieve in a still troubled relationship.
Tell her. Be ready to put in the work to rebuild the relationship. But also be ready to consider that the relationship isn't working, and joining Ashley Madison was simply a way for you to put off accepting that fact.
posted by politikitty at 4:34 PM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
Going to therapy certainly signals that you're looking to be happier. And hopefully one of your goals in therapy is looking for healthier coping mechanisms. But it doesn't sound like you've addressed any of the issues in your relationship. The fact that you say it's still tenuous sounds like there's an ebb and flow, and you're currently enjoying a less stressful reprieve in a still troubled relationship.
Tell her. Be ready to put in the work to rebuild the relationship. But also be ready to consider that the relationship isn't working, and joining Ashley Madison was simply a way for you to put off accepting that fact.
posted by politikitty at 4:34 PM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think you should tell her because you did something shitty and she has a right to know, then you can go forward and work on the relationship or however she chooses to deal with the information.
Having said that, I would say realistically the only way she will find out about this is if she digs herself. (I have no idea if she is the type of person to do this, obviously.) Why is that the only way? Well, clearly other people can search for your name. But will they? Why would anyone have a vested interest to the point that they have to look up your email address - as most people don't know others off by heart - and plug it in to search for you. It sounds like an awful lot of work for someone who isn't in a relationship with you and has no benefit for them in finding out one way or another.
It would never occur to me to randomly key in family member, friends or acquaintances email addresses to find out whether or not they cheat. I just don't care about other people's private lives that much. Now clearly, I may be an outlier but I doubt it, so I think the odds of someone specifically searching for you who is not your wife is pretty slim. Just my opinion, but do with that what you will.
posted by Jubey at 5:07 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Having said that, I would say realistically the only way she will find out about this is if she digs herself. (I have no idea if she is the type of person to do this, obviously.) Why is that the only way? Well, clearly other people can search for your name. But will they? Why would anyone have a vested interest to the point that they have to look up your email address - as most people don't know others off by heart - and plug it in to search for you. It sounds like an awful lot of work for someone who isn't in a relationship with you and has no benefit for them in finding out one way or another.
It would never occur to me to randomly key in family member, friends or acquaintances email addresses to find out whether or not they cheat. I just don't care about other people's private lives that much. Now clearly, I may be an outlier but I doubt it, so I think the odds of someone specifically searching for you who is not your wife is pretty slim. Just my opinion, but do with that what you will.
posted by Jubey at 5:07 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
But will they? Why would anyone have a vested interest to the point that they have to look up your email address - as most people don't know others off by heart - and plug it in to search for you.
That data is freely available to be sliced and diced however anyone wants. There is now a region-based search engine for it.
You better believe you know *someone* who's poking around to see if they recognize names.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:17 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
That data is freely available to be sliced and diced however anyone wants. There is now a region-based search engine for it.
You better believe you know *someone* who's poking around to see if they recognize names.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:17 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ha, well, I guess it was only a matter of time. Even so, most people HATE knowing things like this about other people's relationships, simply because the knowledge of knowing a cheater puts them in a quandary of do you tell or not (I've read enough ask me's to know that!) and in general, people would rather not know and /or not tell. Unless they have it in for you. So, OP, do you have any enemies? Oh, and don't take this as me saying not to tell your wife. To reiterate, I would tell her, regardless of the odds of someone else telling her first.
posted by Jubey at 5:28 PM on August 21, 2015
posted by Jubey at 5:28 PM on August 21, 2015
Do I stand alone in the "I wouldn't want to know" camp? That's okay. But I, personally, would not want or necessarily need my husband to confess this to me.
If you're going to tell her, at least be motivated by changing your relationship for the better. Tell her knowing this will force her hand, and yours, to either move things forward one way or the other. Tell her so you can make a new start. Tell her so you can both start being honest. Don't tell her just to preemptively stay out of trouble. That's lame.
posted by lyssabee at 5:36 PM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
If you're going to tell her, at least be motivated by changing your relationship for the better. Tell her knowing this will force her hand, and yours, to either move things forward one way or the other. Tell her so you can make a new start. Tell her so you can both start being honest. Don't tell her just to preemptively stay out of trouble. That's lame.
posted by lyssabee at 5:36 PM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
Advice from a stranger hinges on the question: do you want to stay married?
If you don't want to stay married: tell her, and use this opportunity to start ending things.
If you do want to stay married: Tell her, without excuses. Make an appointment with an individual therapist. Offer to go to couples counseling. Offer to do the things that will help her feel secure and safe right now. Tell her the whole truth (if she wants to know - and don't assume she doesn't - ask). Be prepared to make some large-scale changes to how you live to be more honest and find ways to be fulfilled.
Good luck, you're in a tough position. Other people have survived this. You will too.
posted by latkes at 5:38 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you don't want to stay married: tell her, and use this opportunity to start ending things.
If you do want to stay married: Tell her, without excuses. Make an appointment with an individual therapist. Offer to go to couples counseling. Offer to do the things that will help her feel secure and safe right now. Tell her the whole truth (if she wants to know - and don't assume she doesn't - ask). Be prepared to make some large-scale changes to how you live to be more honest and find ways to be fulfilled.
Good luck, you're in a tough position. Other people have survived this. You will too.
posted by latkes at 5:38 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you want to stay married, tell her and be completely honest. Remember that all of your behavior on the site is likely to be leaked in the near future, as the hackers announced that they'll soon be releasing chats and such.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 6:05 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 6:05 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Honey, I need to tell you something. I did something stupid last year/month/week/yesterday - I signed up for Ashley Madison and now my email is in the leak. I didn't meet anyone, but I did talk to a few people. I didn't realize until now how awful that was and how close I came to making a decision I'd regret for the rest of my life. I am so, so sorry - you and this marriage mean more to me than anything in the world, and we have problems we need to fix. Will you please come to couple's counseling with me? I will make the appointment."
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:20 PM on August 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:20 PM on August 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
If you do want to stay married: Tell her, without excuses.
I don't know if there is research on this, but I think keeping your mouth shut is the path to staying married. Not the honest path, and not the ethical path, but from what I've seen and experienced the way to keep things together is to keep your mouth shut and soldier on.
To be completely clear, I'm not a proponent of secrecy, but simply realistically staying quiet is probably the successful approach if you want to stay married.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:42 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know if there is research on this, but I think keeping your mouth shut is the path to staying married. Not the honest path, and not the ethical path, but from what I've seen and experienced the way to keep things together is to keep your mouth shut and soldier on.
To be completely clear, I'm not a proponent of secrecy, but simply realistically staying quiet is probably the successful approach if you want to stay married.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:42 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm with lyssabee--I wouldn't want to know.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:46 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:46 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Let me toss out the possibility that maybe you wanted to get caught. You used a standard email, didn't create a persona and used your credit card. You left a trail and a clear one.
Hoping it blows over is leaving a ticking bomb in your marriage. Take your wife aside, tell the truth and defuse the bomb.
posted by 26.2 at 8:22 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hoping it blows over is leaving a ticking bomb in your marriage. Take your wife aside, tell the truth and defuse the bomb.
posted by 26.2 at 8:22 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anonymous : If you send me a memail I have an alternative answer for you, that may be helpful.
posted by ill3 at 12:37 AM on August 22, 2015
posted by ill3 at 12:37 AM on August 22, 2015
lyssabee -- I wouldn't want to know either. But if discovery is imminent (as it appears to be with AM cases) then I'd want to know from my partner.
plus, what kind of sh*t heel codes apps to check contacts for this kind of thing? Seriously.
posted by frumiousb at 1:12 AM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
plus, what kind of sh*t heel codes apps to check contacts for this kind of thing? Seriously.
posted by frumiousb at 1:12 AM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was reading your question and waiting for the part where it said you took any kind of action to get together with someone you met from the site. Honestly, what you actually did sounds pretty innocuous to me. Not something I would think would be desirable on a continuing basis if you have agreed to be monogamous, but not very far along the continuum of extra-marital involvement either. (For reference, I could care less if my partner looks at porn and I've had no issues in the past with him going to strip clubs and he probably has engaged in some erotic chat online; my reaction to finding that out would be, eh.)
But in your case it sounds like you are aware it was a sign of trouble, because on some level you were actually planning to cheat. You do consider that you broke your marital agreement. At this point, if you are sitting in front of the television watching coverage of the leak and not telling her, that is weird. I think you might consider just telling her the facts-- you signed up and chatted with a few people-- and put the ball in her court. Don't blame her; don't minimize; don't even present an action plan about therapy and stuff like that. Just see what she thinks about it.
posted by BibiRose at 5:26 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
But in your case it sounds like you are aware it was a sign of trouble, because on some level you were actually planning to cheat. You do consider that you broke your marital agreement. At this point, if you are sitting in front of the television watching coverage of the leak and not telling her, that is weird. I think you might consider just telling her the facts-- you signed up and chatted with a few people-- and put the ball in her court. Don't blame her; don't minimize; don't even present an action plan about therapy and stuff like that. Just see what she thinks about it.
posted by BibiRose at 5:26 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
If I were your wife, I would want to know. You swore an oath to (some variant of) love and respect and be honest with her.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ha, well, I guess it was only a matter of time. Even so, most people HATE knowing things like this about other people's relationships, simply because the knowledge of knowing a cheater puts them in a quandary of do you tell or not (I've read enough ask me's to know that!) and in general, people would rather not know and /or not tell.
You must know way nicer people than I do - most of the people I know love snooping and would break land-speed records telling once they found something like this.
OP, you need to tell but I'd be astonished if your spouse hasn't already been told.
posted by winna at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
You must know way nicer people than I do - most of the people I know love snooping and would break land-speed records telling once they found something like this.
OP, you need to tell but I'd be astonished if your spouse hasn't already been told.
posted by winna at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you want to stay married, tell her and be completely honest.
If you go this route, be very careful about that complete honesty. I am an excessively honest person. I think there are upsides to it, but it absolutely comes with a price. I am fond of the movie line "I'm too truthful to be good." But I also try to be guided by a quote I saw years ago: "People who are brutally honest love brutality more than honesty."
Whether you preemptively tell or not, I highly recommend you start working on your story --your version of events -- so you can be both honest and nice about it if/when you ever do need to or choose to face the music. This does not mean prevaricating. It means really dealing with what happened so you can honestly and kindly say something like:
"During a difficult time in our marriage, I did consider cheating and I did sign up for the site. I did talk to three women. But I really wanted only you and, in spite of our problems, I never met any of these women or slept with any of them."
Statistics support the suggestions above to not tell. But even if you do not tell, be aware you may get outted. So work on figuring out how you will respond if that happens. You will get one shot at doing it right. If you haven't thought it through carefully and it sounds as bad as this Ask does, the odds are poor that she will give you a second chance.
posted by Michele in California at 11:15 AM on August 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
If you go this route, be very careful about that complete honesty. I am an excessively honest person. I think there are upsides to it, but it absolutely comes with a price. I am fond of the movie line "I'm too truthful to be good." But I also try to be guided by a quote I saw years ago: "People who are brutally honest love brutality more than honesty."
Whether you preemptively tell or not, I highly recommend you start working on your story --your version of events -- so you can be both honest and nice about it if/when you ever do need to or choose to face the music. This does not mean prevaricating. It means really dealing with what happened so you can honestly and kindly say something like:
"During a difficult time in our marriage, I did consider cheating and I did sign up for the site. I did talk to three women. But I really wanted only you and, in spite of our problems, I never met any of these women or slept with any of them."
Statistics support the suggestions above to not tell. But even if you do not tell, be aware you may get outted. So work on figuring out how you will respond if that happens. You will get one shot at doing it right. If you haven't thought it through carefully and it sounds as bad as this Ask does, the odds are poor that she will give you a second chance.
posted by Michele in California at 11:15 AM on August 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
I would say go to counseling together to talk about all the underlying issues. The counselor can probably facilitate the emotional fallout and where your relationship stands today. I would first be honest and stop framing everything as you being the victim of your own marriage. If you mostly commiserated with the women you communicated with, maybe you could offer your wife access to the account to read your messages so she can see for herself it was more reaching out for support you weren't getting rather than cheating.
posted by SassHat at 8:31 AM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by SassHat at 8:31 AM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
According to the most recent AM post over on The Blue, you should assume your name and specific personal details associated with the credit card you used to pay the $75 has been revealed, as will the text of your correspondence with two users on the site. So, best for you to assume a total searchable, public reveal of the extent of your participation is forthcoming - including the erotic chat you engaged in with the one person. Ugh, that sucks.
In light of the latest facts about the hacking, I don't see how you can keep hiding this from your wife much longer. You've expressed concern here about her being blindsided and embarrassed by other people showing her the evidence against you. That's a legit concern, and quite frankly, you don't have a ton of time left to decide before the decision gets made for you. The downside to continuing to wait for her to find out on her own or from someone else is you run the risk of looking even more dishonest in her eyes, and like you're coming from a place of "sorry not sorry that I got caught."
You also want her to be able to spin a version of the story to third parties that casts you in a favorable light: "Yeah, he told me about that. We've gone through some tough times and he was acting out. Nothing ever happened." You are therefore going to need to tell her early, and think about how you'll go about proving nothing ever happened with these two other users. Give her your AM password (well, for as long as it still works anyway) and let her see the info for herself. Review your credit card statements where applicable. Hell, show her this Ask.
Here's the thing: in her shoes, absent the Total, Complete leak this is and if you did not ever meet anyone in person nor spend loads of joint marital money on this, I would not want to know. But because of the leak, in her shoes, I would now feel I need to know the shitty truth in order to protect myself from being blindsided and also from the imposed vulnerability of (potentially) the whole world knowing my marital dirty laundry (and the more she cares about privacy and saving face, the truer this becomes).
So I'd need proof, and I'd need you to put me in the loop immediately. Because the elephant in the room undoubtedly is, had it not been for the hacking, you were never, ever going to tell her. Which presents yet another trust issue to overcome. Oy. What a mess. Glad to hear you are in therapy-- I'd definitely work with your therapist on your big reveal speech to your wife, maybe come up with a script that does not blame her for your choices (even though clearly you see her as somewhat blameworthy... Pro-Tip: that's not a winning strategy if you want her to empathize with you.) I'm sorry this happened to you. Try to do better at bringing your authentic self to your marriage next time.
posted by hush at 1:54 PM on August 25, 2015
In light of the latest facts about the hacking, I don't see how you can keep hiding this from your wife much longer. You've expressed concern here about her being blindsided and embarrassed by other people showing her the evidence against you. That's a legit concern, and quite frankly, you don't have a ton of time left to decide before the decision gets made for you. The downside to continuing to wait for her to find out on her own or from someone else is you run the risk of looking even more dishonest in her eyes, and like you're coming from a place of "sorry not sorry that I got caught."
You also want her to be able to spin a version of the story to third parties that casts you in a favorable light: "Yeah, he told me about that. We've gone through some tough times and he was acting out. Nothing ever happened." You are therefore going to need to tell her early, and think about how you'll go about proving nothing ever happened with these two other users. Give her your AM password (well, for as long as it still works anyway) and let her see the info for herself. Review your credit card statements where applicable. Hell, show her this Ask.
Here's the thing: in her shoes, absent the Total, Complete leak this is and if you did not ever meet anyone in person nor spend loads of joint marital money on this, I would not want to know. But because of the leak, in her shoes, I would now feel I need to know the shitty truth in order to protect myself from being blindsided and also from the imposed vulnerability of (potentially) the whole world knowing my marital dirty laundry (and the more she cares about privacy and saving face, the truer this becomes).
So I'd need proof, and I'd need you to put me in the loop immediately. Because the elephant in the room undoubtedly is, had it not been for the hacking, you were never, ever going to tell her. Which presents yet another trust issue to overcome. Oy. What a mess. Glad to hear you are in therapy-- I'd definitely work with your therapist on your big reveal speech to your wife, maybe come up with a script that does not blame her for your choices (even though clearly you see her as somewhat blameworthy... Pro-Tip: that's not a winning strategy if you want her to empathize with you.) I'm sorry this happened to you. Try to do better at bringing your authentic self to your marriage next time.
posted by hush at 1:54 PM on August 25, 2015
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If I found out through someone else (or by myself) I would feel so hurt and embarassed and betrayed, and that's what would be really difficult to get over, I think.
posted by easter queen at 3:01 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]