Nice is creepy
August 15, 2015 10:44 PM Subscribe
I am really struggling with developing relationships with nice nonsocially awkward people. Having gone to a few different cbt therapists, I have made major improvements with anxiety/perfectionism/feeling judged. However, when I start chatting with someone who seems not at all socially awkward and appropriately nice, I feel my skin start to crawl and distance myself. How can I fix this?
I would really like to have more supportive and meaningful relationships. My family and current close friends are great in a lot of ways, but they are pretty blatantly awkward and emotionally unavailable in a lot of ways. Very few favors get asked and I feel like I am making them uncomfortable when I push an emotional conversation. My best guy friend is very high functioning autistic and my best girl friend is somewhat flakey and avoids emotional conversations and favors either way. They're both wonderful in many ways but I am hoping to build some deeper relationships.
My family is similarly favor/emotion avoidant and I get that I have an avoidant attachment style. But I wish I could develop more health style attachments. Especially with men. My last relationship was verbally and physically abusive. (30 year old straight female).
When I am out and start chatting with someone who is nice and not at all socially awkward, I feel the need to end the conversation immediately. I can chat with a slightly mean/awkward person for an hour at random. When getting to know people in a group, I feel like I tend to gravitate towards folks who are not as emotionally available. Like subconsciously I think I am not good enough for deep relationships. How can I work on this? I think I've asked a couple different therapists and never gotten a real answer.
I would really like to have more supportive and meaningful relationships. My family and current close friends are great in a lot of ways, but they are pretty blatantly awkward and emotionally unavailable in a lot of ways. Very few favors get asked and I feel like I am making them uncomfortable when I push an emotional conversation. My best guy friend is very high functioning autistic and my best girl friend is somewhat flakey and avoids emotional conversations and favors either way. They're both wonderful in many ways but I am hoping to build some deeper relationships.
My family is similarly favor/emotion avoidant and I get that I have an avoidant attachment style. But I wish I could develop more health style attachments. Especially with men. My last relationship was verbally and physically abusive. (30 year old straight female).
When I am out and start chatting with someone who is nice and not at all socially awkward, I feel the need to end the conversation immediately. I can chat with a slightly mean/awkward person for an hour at random. When getting to know people in a group, I feel like I tend to gravitate towards folks who are not as emotionally available. Like subconsciously I think I am not good enough for deep relationships. How can I work on this? I think I've asked a couple different therapists and never gotten a real answer.
When I am out and start chatting with someone who is nice and not at all socially awkward, I feel the need to end the conversation immediately.
Feelings are not imperatives. You can acknowledge the impulse ("Oh, there is that feeling again...") without acting on it. You can override feelings with your brain ("I have made major improvements with anxiety and feeling judged and this is good healthy practice for me") and just tough it out. It will get easier if you do!
posted by DarlingBri at 2:03 AM on August 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
Feelings are not imperatives. You can acknowledge the impulse ("Oh, there is that feeling again...") without acting on it. You can override feelings with your brain ("I have made major improvements with anxiety and feeling judged and this is good healthy practice for me") and just tough it out. It will get easier if you do!
posted by DarlingBri at 2:03 AM on August 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
You can do a great free course on positive emotions on coursera. It teaches you about positive emotions and your reaction to them, which might be helpful.
posted by hz37 at 2:48 AM on August 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by hz37 at 2:48 AM on August 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is this just with men, or with women too? You might find it easier to focus on making "nice" female friends first who would hopefully not trigger the same level of creepy feelings as guys you're approaching romantically. You can have a pretty low key nice female friendship, romantic relationships are a bit more all or nothing.
posted by tinkletown at 4:39 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tinkletown at 4:39 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's nice and there's nice. Sometimes "nice" behavior can be manipulative. Maybe you've had some experience with that in the past and now you feel wary with people who are acting "nice." Or maybe you feel you know what to expect from socially awkward people, but that nice people might be operating with an unspoken code that you might not always understand, which is also uncomfortable.
I know people who have good manners and generally behave in a nice manner, but who tend to subtly nudge my boundaries with regards to personal space, asking personal questions, etc. It generally takes me a long time to sort that out, though, and I spend several months thinking "Greg is so nice, why don't I like him?" That may or may not be similar to your experience.
Give yourself time to get to know people. Honor your feelings by being cautious when you don't feel comfortable with someone, but gently nudge yourself to get to know people, talk to them, pay attention to how they treat others and how they treat you. Are they nice to people who aren't useful or interesting to them, are they still nice after you've known them for several months, when you set a boundary do they respect it. It's okay to keep people at arm's length and be the person who takes a while to warm up to new people.
In the meantime you might work on building confidence - both in your ability to handle taking a risk of being friends with someone who might disappoint you, and in your worthiness of having nice friends.
posted by bunderful at 10:12 AM on August 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
I know people who have good manners and generally behave in a nice manner, but who tend to subtly nudge my boundaries with regards to personal space, asking personal questions, etc. It generally takes me a long time to sort that out, though, and I spend several months thinking "Greg is so nice, why don't I like him?" That may or may not be similar to your experience.
Give yourself time to get to know people. Honor your feelings by being cautious when you don't feel comfortable with someone, but gently nudge yourself to get to know people, talk to them, pay attention to how they treat others and how they treat you. Are they nice to people who aren't useful or interesting to them, are they still nice after you've known them for several months, when you set a boundary do they respect it. It's okay to keep people at arm's length and be the person who takes a while to warm up to new people.
In the meantime you might work on building confidence - both in your ability to handle taking a risk of being friends with someone who might disappoint you, and in your worthiness of having nice friends.
posted by bunderful at 10:12 AM on August 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
You can override feelings with your brain ("I have made major improvements with anxiety and feeling judged and this is good healthy practice for me") and just tough it out. It will get easier if you do!
While one way of overcoming unfitting emotions is to simply ignore them and act as if one didn't feel them, it strikes me as wrong to do in this case. It seems unfair to the men doing the asking out for the OP to go out on dates with them while feeling incredibly creeped out.
I think the OP needs to resolve what she sees as her unfitting feelings before dragging other people into it.
posted by girl flaneur at 10:39 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
While one way of overcoming unfitting emotions is to simply ignore them and act as if one didn't feel them, it strikes me as wrong to do in this case. It seems unfair to the men doing the asking out for the OP to go out on dates with them while feeling incredibly creeped out.
I think the OP needs to resolve what she sees as her unfitting feelings before dragging other people into it.
posted by girl flaneur at 10:39 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Like subconsciously I think I am not good enough for deep relationships.
I suggest you reframe the problem. I suspect a more likely explanation is that social skills are actually skills. That isn't just an expression. It naturally makes someone uncomfortable to interact with someone who has power over them, especially power they don't really understand.
In short, you feel outclassed and you do not trust these people. Given my experience that a lot of people who are socially smooth will not hesitate to trample someone's boundaries in the course of using those skills for personal advantage, it is a very reasonable reaction.
However, you will need to interact with smoother people if you are ever going to gain those skills. It might help to come up with some best practices for how to get through a certain amount of the growth phase without sticking your neck out too far.
One thought: Let them carry the conversation. Do more listening than talking. You can learn some things that way without putting yourself at undue risk.
Also, try to stick to public spaces. You are far more vulnerable in private spaces without witnesses. No matter how smooth someone is, there are limits to what they can pull in public.
Best of luck.
posted by Michele in California at 12:30 PM on August 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
I suggest you reframe the problem. I suspect a more likely explanation is that social skills are actually skills. That isn't just an expression. It naturally makes someone uncomfortable to interact with someone who has power over them, especially power they don't really understand.
In short, you feel outclassed and you do not trust these people. Given my experience that a lot of people who are socially smooth will not hesitate to trample someone's boundaries in the course of using those skills for personal advantage, it is a very reasonable reaction.
However, you will need to interact with smoother people if you are ever going to gain those skills. It might help to come up with some best practices for how to get through a certain amount of the growth phase without sticking your neck out too far.
One thought: Let them carry the conversation. Do more listening than talking. You can learn some things that way without putting yourself at undue risk.
Also, try to stick to public spaces. You are far more vulnerable in private spaces without witnesses. No matter how smooth someone is, there are limits to what they can pull in public.
Best of luck.
posted by Michele in California at 12:30 PM on August 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
Someone up there said something like socially nice can equal manipulative. I find I sometimes start physically shaking when chatting with someone I deem "together." But you know, looking back, this is only a small percentage of people; most fall in between that and awkward. I nver knew if these people could tell I was having tremors...
Sorry to say, but I don't really think "relationships" are supposed to work except for the bearing of children. So in terms of friendship, have as many as you want and of whatever type and best not to question. If you talk these things out in therapy or have some other more meditative experience, any change that happens will best be unforced. So one dooms him/herself by expectations.
posted by noelpratt2nd at 6:52 PM on August 16, 2015
Sorry to say, but I don't really think "relationships" are supposed to work except for the bearing of children. So in terms of friendship, have as many as you want and of whatever type and best not to question. If you talk these things out in therapy or have some other more meditative experience, any change that happens will best be unforced. So one dooms him/herself by expectations.
posted by noelpratt2nd at 6:52 PM on August 16, 2015
Also, consider that with awkward to awkward, a relationship already exist.
posted by noelpratt2nd at 12:01 PM on August 17, 2015
posted by noelpratt2nd at 12:01 PM on August 17, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
But on to your question: I assume you find yourself attracted to assholes. This is not uncommon, especially if you were surrounded by not very nice, emotionally unavailable men growing up.
I think it might help if you try and take a step back from your immediate, knee jerk aversion to the nice guys, and just observe yourself in a detached way, i.e., "there I go pulling away from Nice Guy yet again. How predictable I am!" The key is not to judge yourself too harshly but just observe. The idea is that if you learn to give yourself a little space from your immediate emotional reactions, they can shift over time.
Sadly, you can't will yourself into being attracted to someone, but you can learn to get out of your own way.
posted by girl flaneur at 1:01 AM on August 16, 2015 [8 favorites]