Toddler Killing Me With Sleep Deprivation
August 12, 2015 8:02 AM Subscribe
I have been doing the mom thing for over 5 years now with two kids and I am honestly at a point I'd never thought I'd be in: out of ideas and at my wit's end since 2.8 yo is apparently on a sleep strike.
2.8 (she'll be 3 in November) was a good sleeper. For a long time, we simply put her in her crib, gave her a kiss, turned out the lights, closed the door and we wouldn't hear a peep out of her until the next morning. This summer, though, this has gotten much more difficult. Within the past month or so, she has been having an increasingly hard time going to sleep. It may take 45 - 60 minutes with multiple re-visits by us and requests for "go potty" (again) or "hug" or "play Mommy bed". I'd chalked this up to a severe toddler case of FOMO since of course, we are up partying after she goes to bed.
Still, we are getting into dangerous territory because she does not nap during the day and she is still waking up at her usual time between 6:30 and 7:30 = overtired. She is increasingly discombobulated when I go in her room in the morning and has taken to screaming, "Go away mommy!" before coming out of her fog. This has recently escalated into screaming in the middle of the night (not night terrors - she is wide awake) and being UP up at 3:30 or 4:30am.
We've started putting her down much earlier (7-7:15) and dosing her with very minimal amount of melatonin in the past few days and that seems to be helping, but last night was another scream fest.
Data points: she just recently daytime potty trained (at least for No. 1) but still sleeps in her crib at night because frankly, we don't trust her in the house at night. She understands directions very well, she doesn't always agree with them. She recently ditched her sleep sacks and of course, now gets cold when she wakes up and her bazillion blankets are not on her.
Is this really just the overtired monster and she needs to make up her sleep deficit (in which case, yay melatonin) or am I missing something?
2.8 (she'll be 3 in November) was a good sleeper. For a long time, we simply put her in her crib, gave her a kiss, turned out the lights, closed the door and we wouldn't hear a peep out of her until the next morning. This summer, though, this has gotten much more difficult. Within the past month or so, she has been having an increasingly hard time going to sleep. It may take 45 - 60 minutes with multiple re-visits by us and requests for "go potty" (again) or "hug" or "play Mommy bed". I'd chalked this up to a severe toddler case of FOMO since of course, we are up partying after she goes to bed.
Still, we are getting into dangerous territory because she does not nap during the day and she is still waking up at her usual time between 6:30 and 7:30 = overtired. She is increasingly discombobulated when I go in her room in the morning and has taken to screaming, "Go away mommy!" before coming out of her fog. This has recently escalated into screaming in the middle of the night (not night terrors - she is wide awake) and being UP up at 3:30 or 4:30am.
We've started putting her down much earlier (7-7:15) and dosing her with very minimal amount of melatonin in the past few days and that seems to be helping, but last night was another scream fest.
Data points: she just recently daytime potty trained (at least for No. 1) but still sleeps in her crib at night because frankly, we don't trust her in the house at night. She understands directions very well, she doesn't always agree with them. She recently ditched her sleep sacks and of course, now gets cold when she wakes up and her bazillion blankets are not on her.
Is this really just the overtired monster and she needs to make up her sleep deficit (in which case, yay melatonin) or am I missing something?
Could her magnesium levels be low?
posted by Hermione Granger at 8:12 AM on August 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 8:12 AM on August 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
This is kind of random- but her yelling at you to go away before coming out of her fog reminds me of myself as a teen when my blood sugar would be super low in the morning. Is she eating regular meals? Is there a chance she has a blood sugar issue? Dips in blood sugar cause extreme irritability. Although I'm not sure if the not sleeping fits in with this.
posted by cacao at 8:22 AM on August 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by cacao at 8:22 AM on August 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
You need to reinforce bedtime = stay in bed and be quiet. Don't engage with her when she gets up. This is easier said than done, and I will NEVER forget the two nights it took me to institute this with my first toddler - my god, the screams! - but it worked and it was extremely necessary.
It's hard to be strict and unengaged with your baby, but this is what the situation requires. Any engagement, even if it's angry or pleading, gets processed as reward for getting up.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:26 AM on August 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's hard to be strict and unengaged with your baby, but this is what the situation requires. Any engagement, even if it's angry or pleading, gets processed as reward for getting up.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:26 AM on August 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is she getting the chance to use lots of energy in physical play during the day? If she's at daycare, is she right on the edge of a transition and is bored with the babies? Is there any way at all to get a little daytime sleep into her (long car ride etc), and does that help at all?
A thing my kid did around that age was to have some nighttime potty awareness which seriously messed with sleep. He'd be full of pee around 4 or 5 am, and either his wet diaper would wake him up or he'd need to move around to pee, and often could not quite get back to sleep. In that case the only way out was through, though reducing milk in the evenings helped.
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:30 AM on August 12, 2015
A thing my kid did around that age was to have some nighttime potty awareness which seriously messed with sleep. He'd be full of pee around 4 or 5 am, and either his wet diaper would wake him up or he'd need to move around to pee, and often could not quite get back to sleep. In that case the only way out was through, though reducing milk in the evenings helped.
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:30 AM on August 12, 2015
When my son was about that age (threeish), and had trouble sleeping, I ran the shit out of him.
Walks around the neighborhood, playing hide and seek, running around the yard. That sort of physical activity. It can be hard to physically wear out a toddler, but it is possible. It worked pretty well for me.*
Sometimes I would use the Magical Sleepy Corner, especially as he got older, but when he was little, just wearing him out worked really well.
* incidentally, it occurred to me about that time that active dogs and toddlers have quite a lot in common. The same basic rules apply, and neither minds eating dog food.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:39 AM on August 12, 2015 [33 favorites]
Walks around the neighborhood, playing hide and seek, running around the yard. That sort of physical activity. It can be hard to physically wear out a toddler, but it is possible. It worked pretty well for me.*
Sometimes I would use the Magical Sleepy Corner, especially as he got older, but when he was little, just wearing him out worked really well.
* incidentally, it occurred to me about that time that active dogs and toddlers have quite a lot in common. The same basic rules apply, and neither minds eating dog food.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:39 AM on August 12, 2015 [33 favorites]
Talk to your pediatrician about appropriate doses of melatonin. Total game changer for us…but, do talk to the doc.
posted by furnace.heart at 8:41 AM on August 12, 2015
posted by furnace.heart at 8:41 AM on August 12, 2015
My 4-year-old is doing a lot more of this calling us back to his room multiple times thing lately, too. The only thing that seems to work is to tell him that we literally cannot hear him because we will be down in the basement so he is on his own. Once the opportunity to call us back disappears, he doesn't try and just goes to sleep (or plays quietly until he is tired). So if you literally can't hear her it might help, or try (I know it's hard) to ignore her -- after telling her, of course, that you WILL NOT COME BACK if called.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:42 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:42 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Running the shit out of my 3yo helps. I take him swimming a lot and that really wears him out.
I find with him that the more tired he is, the harder it is for him to get more sleep. It's a horrible paradox.
posted by sutel at 8:46 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I find with him that the more tired he is, the harder it is for him to get more sleep. It's a horrible paradox.
posted by sutel at 8:46 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Others have good suggestions for specific things to try, but I'm afraid I have to tell you, three-year-olds just suck sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I love my ex-three-year-old with all my heart, as well as my will-one-day-be-three-year-old, but three years old seemed to me to be the biggest mismatch between cognitive ability and ability to imagine things just so, versus ability to describe what exactly just so is, and ability to deal with it when whatever it is is not up to par.
We had to move Micropanda out of a crib before he was ready, because he started climbing out and was therefore in danger. We solved your problem by putting a doorknob cover on the inside of his door, that he couldn't open, and then putting a training potty in his room by the nightlight. And we took EVERYTHING ELSE out of his room for awhile.
Micropanda couldn't stay under blankets until nearly 4. When he was the age between sleep sacks and blankets I dressed him in a one-piece fleece snowsuit type of thing at bedtime. Though I guess that's not compatible with potty training. Maybe regular pajamas with 2-piece fleece pajamas over them as a "blanket"?
Beyond that, try all the things people here have suggested, try not to strangle your kid, and know that it does pass. Eventually.
posted by telepanda at 8:56 AM on August 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
We had to move Micropanda out of a crib before he was ready, because he started climbing out and was therefore in danger. We solved your problem by putting a doorknob cover on the inside of his door, that he couldn't open, and then putting a training potty in his room by the nightlight. And we took EVERYTHING ELSE out of his room for awhile.
Micropanda couldn't stay under blankets until nearly 4. When he was the age between sleep sacks and blankets I dressed him in a one-piece fleece snowsuit type of thing at bedtime. Though I guess that's not compatible with potty training. Maybe regular pajamas with 2-piece fleece pajamas over them as a "blanket"?
Beyond that, try all the things people here have suggested, try not to strangle your kid, and know that it does pass. Eventually.
posted by telepanda at 8:56 AM on August 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
Read Aletha Solter and do things differently. Our 5 year old has always slept though the night (except of course when she had the flu) with a well intentioned Solter upbringing from both parents. Also, my wife and I take turns bringing her to bed and ALWAYS take 45 to 60 minutes to let her cry, ask questions, read books, do an extra trip to the bathroom and generally meet her emotional needs. I regard that has some of our best times together. I almost never leave her room before she sleeps. Good luck!
posted by hz37 at 9:11 AM on August 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by hz37 at 9:11 AM on August 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm with telepanda. Our 3.5-year old pulled the same stuff for awhile. The most effective thing for us was getting him a door he could not open, and having a firm "once we say goodnight, we will see you in the morning" rule. We made sure he had a bathroom break, lots of stories/songs/hugs and kisses, and then good night meant GOOD NIGHT. (He's not in a crib and he is nighttime potty trained, which might change the game for you a little bit.) But for us, it really was about letting him know that bedtime=stay in bed, we really mean it. It took some time and there was crying, but life is SO much better on the flip side now!
posted by Bella Sebastian at 9:26 AM on August 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Bella Sebastian at 9:26 AM on August 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Maybe a longer nighttime routine. A kiss and a goodbye worked, but you clearly don't have that kid anymore.
Reading books works great for me and telling stories once the lights are out. My daughter needs that wind down (without TV) to get into a good place where she can sleep through the night. I go until she is out. If I try and cut corners on the routine (which really starts in the tub, teeth, hair, etc and ends in bed) I pay for that "saved time" with call outs and wake ups and grumpy kid in the morning.
Getting into a big-kid bed also seemed to make a big difference. Despite sharing your fears about a wandering, it really changed the dynamic.
posted by French Fry at 9:29 AM on August 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Reading books works great for me and telling stories once the lights are out. My daughter needs that wind down (without TV) to get into a good place where she can sleep through the night. I go until she is out. If I try and cut corners on the routine (which really starts in the tub, teeth, hair, etc and ends in bed) I pay for that "saved time" with call outs and wake ups and grumpy kid in the morning.
Getting into a big-kid bed also seemed to make a big difference. Despite sharing your fears about a wandering, it really changed the dynamic.
posted by French Fry at 9:29 AM on August 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
For the cold -- I had to be dressed in footy pajamas with the feet cut off, put on backwards with the zipper in the back, around that age. So maybe that's a thing to try.
posted by ktkt at 10:19 AM on August 12, 2015
posted by ktkt at 10:19 AM on August 12, 2015
On the nap front, one three year old I was daytime carer for would reject naps if asked "is it time for a nap?" but if asked "do you want me or grandmom to put you down for your nap?" would readily go lie down with the person of his choice. It might be worth trying something like that, where the unspoken assumption is that a nap is happening, but your daughter can choose who tucks her in or where she lies down, so it feels like she gets some say in the matter.
posted by EvaDestruction at 10:32 AM on August 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by EvaDestruction at 10:32 AM on August 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
I solved the blankets problem when my kid was about 2.8 by adding a twin size bedsheet to her toddler bed. I can tuck it in very tightly around one side and the bottom, and then spent some time (not at bedtime/naptime) teaching her hand-over-hand how to pull the sheet up over herself when it came loose. I haven't had to go back in for a "cover me" request since.
As for the rest of it, I agree with trying to add a nap back in (do you at least do a "quiet time"?) and running her ragged at the end of the day to make her too tired to have requests at bedtime. But this age sucks for a couple months, basically, and it seems to affect sleep more than most other things.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 10:45 AM on August 12, 2015
As for the rest of it, I agree with trying to add a nap back in (do you at least do a "quiet time"?) and running her ragged at the end of the day to make her too tired to have requests at bedtime. But this age sucks for a couple months, basically, and it seems to affect sleep more than most other things.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 10:45 AM on August 12, 2015
I'd tell you I had advice for you, but my good sleeper and my bad sleeper have swapped back and forth so many times over the years that I can't tell you what or why is a pattern. 2 kids, similar in many ways, but on such opposite sleep schedules.
My daughter (4) was an early-riser-hell-to-get-to-bed a few months ago, but we moved and her environment is bigger and affords her more activity during the day now... so now she gets up later (6:30 instead of 5:30) and goes to bed easier than before... but, she wakes up in the middle of the night and crawls into our bed. If she stays up too late, she loses all coordination, falls over a lot, invades personal space, can't control herself and otherwise is a nightmare.
My son (6) has been going through some sleep issues for a bit longer, and those have persisted through the move - but they have also intensified in certain ways. It is now almost impossible to get him to close his eyes and go to sleep in his own bed. Basically, that's asking for hysteria and anxiety... so that means we're either putting him in our bed with us, or trying to settle him in his own room for about 2 hours. On a positive note, he slept till 10:00AM this morning.
Whatever though, we'll be retraining him over the next couple of weeks in preparation for first grade.
Edit: Point: YMMV, your child is a special snowflake.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:56 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
My daughter (4) was an early-riser-hell-to-get-to-bed a few months ago, but we moved and her environment is bigger and affords her more activity during the day now... so now she gets up later (6:30 instead of 5:30) and goes to bed easier than before... but, she wakes up in the middle of the night and crawls into our bed. If she stays up too late, she loses all coordination, falls over a lot, invades personal space, can't control herself and otherwise is a nightmare.
My son (6) has been going through some sleep issues for a bit longer, and those have persisted through the move - but they have also intensified in certain ways. It is now almost impossible to get him to close his eyes and go to sleep in his own bed. Basically, that's asking for hysteria and anxiety... so that means we're either putting him in our bed with us, or trying to settle him in his own room for about 2 hours. On a positive note, he slept till 10:00AM this morning.
Whatever though, we'll be retraining him over the next couple of weeks in preparation for first grade.
Edit: Point: YMMV, your child is a special snowflake.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:56 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Our toddler got a lot better when we got him this light. It comes with a remote that allows you to changes colors; and it doesn't have a high lumen output so it's good for sleeping. I think it was such a success because it (a) gave him a feeling of control over something and (b) assuaged his fear of the dark.
posted by rada at 11:04 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rada at 11:04 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
When our 2.6 YO's sleep went to hell in a handbasket a few months ago, the thing that helped was an iron supplement. I cant remember where I read that iron deficiency can impact sleep, but I did, and lo and behold, it seemed to really help with both our kids.
Our older daughter started with the early-ass waking up thing when she was about your daughter's age as well. The thing that ultimately worked with her was waking her up just every so slightly when we went to bed - not all the way up, just enough to restart the sleep cycle. I think she'd been waking up at that same time probably all along, but when she got to that age she was old enough to actually WAKE UP instead of rolling over and going back to sleep. Resetting the sleep clock really helped.
So, those are a couple more anecdotes among anecdotes. You are not alone.
posted by dpx.mfx at 11:07 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Our older daughter started with the early-ass waking up thing when she was about your daughter's age as well. The thing that ultimately worked with her was waking her up just every so slightly when we went to bed - not all the way up, just enough to restart the sleep cycle. I think she'd been waking up at that same time probably all along, but when she got to that age she was old enough to actually WAKE UP instead of rolling over and going back to sleep. Resetting the sleep clock really helped.
So, those are a couple more anecdotes among anecdotes. You are not alone.
posted by dpx.mfx at 11:07 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you aren't doing a bedtime story, consider adding that. It worked well for me. I still read to my youngest (age 8) at night, and it is a great time to connect and gives the kid a chance to slowly zone out. Other stuff people mentioned:
* avoid screen time between dinner and bed
* make sure she's getting enough exercise during the day to be properly tired
* start being firm about bedtime meaning no more playing, etc. Make it clear you are around in an emergency, but that mommy needs her own playtime (or work time or whatever).
Good luck!
posted by freecellwizard at 11:20 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
* avoid screen time between dinner and bed
* make sure she's getting enough exercise during the day to be properly tired
* start being firm about bedtime meaning no more playing, etc. Make it clear you are around in an emergency, but that mommy needs her own playtime (or work time or whatever).
Good luck!
posted by freecellwizard at 11:20 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
know that it does pass. Eventually.
I'm not a parent, so apologies if this comment is inappropriate, but as someone who, as an infant, no one could put to sleep, and who continues to struggle with this as an adult, I did want to jump in to say that people don't always just grow out of this without some kind of intervention; it can turn into a lifelong problem unless it's addressed. (Not to scare you, but it can happen :/) I guess how you address it really depends on you, your child, and what the problems are. I think it would make sense to talk to a pediatrician to figure out exactly what's going on.
(As an n=1, would not recommend leaving an overstimulated or anxious kid alone in the dark without at least trying to teach them self-soothing/calming strategies, because those aren't always self-evident.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:45 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not a parent, so apologies if this comment is inappropriate, but as someone who, as an infant, no one could put to sleep, and who continues to struggle with this as an adult, I did want to jump in to say that people don't always just grow out of this without some kind of intervention; it can turn into a lifelong problem unless it's addressed. (Not to scare you, but it can happen :/) I guess how you address it really depends on you, your child, and what the problems are. I think it would make sense to talk to a pediatrician to figure out exactly what's going on.
(As an n=1, would not recommend leaving an overstimulated or anxious kid alone in the dark without at least trying to teach them self-soothing/calming strategies, because those aren't always self-evident.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:45 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
For my kid it was a severe iron deficiency. He was so groggy during the day that he was covered in bruises from falling over, but wouldn't sleep at night. Just another voice suggesting you try a doctor, it could be a shitty developmental phase or it could be something physiological that you can do something about.
posted by arcticwoman at 12:20 PM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by arcticwoman at 12:20 PM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
While it may be iron deficiency, please consult with your doctor about specific iron supplements. With iron fortified foods and a dose in most kids vitamins on top of iron in foods, it is possible to get iron poisoning which has its own serious health concquences.
posted by Kalmya at 1:48 PM on August 12, 2015
posted by Kalmya at 1:48 PM on August 12, 2015
Since this started with the summer, is the room too bright? Maybe some blackout curtains or foil over the windows would help?
posted by hydra77 at 6:51 PM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by hydra77 at 6:51 PM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not to be the boogeyman... but this wasn't addressed in the OP, nor has anyone mentioned it.
Has anything else in her life changed? People and places, especially... that she's either used to seeing and isn't anymore, or that is someone new to her? Have any of her other behaviors changed?
posted by stormyteal at 8:34 PM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Has anything else in her life changed? People and places, especially... that she's either used to seeing and isn't anymore, or that is someone new to her? Have any of her other behaviors changed?
posted by stormyteal at 8:34 PM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
telepanda: ...I'm afraid I have to tell you, three-year-olds just suck sometimes.
I have four kids, and each of them ran us ragged for a while. Just don't engage, or do so silently. You know how a lot of AskMe's have the advice to 'just reply, "That won't be possible" for things you don't want to do' among their most-favorited answers? Well, it holds true here, too. If you did the Ferber Method to get them to sleep through the night, the principle is similar: you are refusing to react the way they want you to, and eventually they will have to accept it.
Also, bring back the nap, or at least some Quiet Time alone with books, stuffed friends, and blankets.
Good luck, you will make it!!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:33 AM on August 14, 2015
I have four kids, and each of them ran us ragged for a while. Just don't engage, or do so silently. You know how a lot of AskMe's have the advice to 'just reply, "That won't be possible" for things you don't want to do' among their most-favorited answers? Well, it holds true here, too. If you did the Ferber Method to get them to sleep through the night, the principle is similar: you are refusing to react the way they want you to, and eventually they will have to accept it.
Also, bring back the nap, or at least some Quiet Time alone with books, stuffed friends, and blankets.
Good luck, you will make it!!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:33 AM on August 14, 2015
These types of sleep things are so often just phases. You may just have to weather this one until she grows up a bit more. Sad but true :(
Still, a few thoughts. At that age she very likely does need a nap. The fact that she's ditched it might be something to bring up with her doc. Sleep begets sleep, so sometimes the way to break a bad cycle is to just do whatever you have to do to get her caught up. Extra naps, Benadryl, melatonin, cosleeping, whatever works.
She seems old to be in a crib. We have a baby gate with a latching door permanently installed so he can't wander at night, but he honestly doesn't try to. A kid that age can understand the bed, and will learn quicker than you think. At the very least it could help reset some of the negative associations or dynamics around bedtime.
We had the blanket problem until we moved to the big bed. A twin bed with sheets and a blanket tucked around on three sides seems to be easier for a toddler to manage. Until she figures it out, use footie pajamas, double layered if you have to.
posted by annekate at 11:32 PM on August 15, 2015
Still, a few thoughts. At that age she very likely does need a nap. The fact that she's ditched it might be something to bring up with her doc. Sleep begets sleep, so sometimes the way to break a bad cycle is to just do whatever you have to do to get her caught up. Extra naps, Benadryl, melatonin, cosleeping, whatever works.
She seems old to be in a crib. We have a baby gate with a latching door permanently installed so he can't wander at night, but he honestly doesn't try to. A kid that age can understand the bed, and will learn quicker than you think. At the very least it could help reset some of the negative associations or dynamics around bedtime.
We had the blanket problem until we moved to the big bed. A twin bed with sheets and a blanket tucked around on three sides seems to be easier for a toddler to manage. Until she figures it out, use footie pajamas, double layered if you have to.
posted by annekate at 11:32 PM on August 15, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jillithd at 8:08 AM on August 12, 2015 [2 favorites]