So, my partners car got hit when it was parked...
August 11, 2015 12:38 PM   Subscribe

I've read through the previous questions on this. But a ladies daughter with a learners permit hit my partners car while it was parked, and now she just wants to pay cash because she's convinced involving insurance will be a nightmare...

It's a 10 year old, no accidents, low mileage car. It was basically grandmas flawless car until this happened and runs like a top. The left rear quarter panel, bumper, tail light, trunk lid, and quite a bit of internal stuff underneath(cabin vent, body panel around all that, various internal mounting brackets) are fucked. Scoping it with a flashlight there appears to be even more internal damage. This is, by my estimate and that of my dad who have both worked on cars, several thousand dollars of damage.

Now, i've read the other asks... but the complicating factors here are that this happened on a street where there isn't a single house worth less than several million dollars, she left all of her info(BESIDES insurance, but i have her address and everything), and the implication from the call is that she's filthy fucking rich and will basically write a check for anything we want/need including driving us around to places to deal with it and make this go away because she's worried it might affect her daughter. I realize that doesn't absolve her of being difficult or an asshole suddenly, but it seems to kind of eliminate the "people who pull this routine aren't people who have insurance or money anyways" sort of issue.

One half of my brain wants to just go "lol tough shit lady" and call my insurance company anyways. The other half is saying, well, she obviously has money and if she cuts a check for the body shop and a rental car who loses? She also suggested a nearby(and, because of the area, fairly $$$) shop to check it out at.

My dad thinks i'm a chump if i go with option B, and going with option A would basically involve calling the cops and the insurance company and hoping they can figure out her info from a name/phone number/address.

Am i a doofus if i go with option B and just call the insurance company if she gets annoying? BOTH options seem like a hassle at this point, and i really hate it. The car is driveable with the some screw driver finagling and the liberal application of duct tape(after i looked at it and said "fuck it, they're going to have to sand this panel anyways" because no one likes getting DT residue off), but absolutely needs to get dealt with soon. Either option involves one or both of us having to leave work and talk to the cops/insurance or alternatively go to the body shop.

Another complicating factor with the insurance thing is that we don't have uninsured motorist protection(i know, i know) so if we involve insurance and she doesn't have any or wasn't covered, and then gets pissed off and doesn't want to talk to us or pay because we did that, then ???

Is there anything i'm missing here? What would you do?
posted by emptythought to Travel & Transportation (45 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
The other half is saying, well, she obviously has money and if she cuts a check for the body shop and a rental car who loses?

Imagine that you take it in to the local $$$ mechanic, who takes care of everything you (a non-mechanic) can see is wrong with the car (and maybe even some other stuff that you didn't realize got screwed up in the crash), the lady cuts the mechanic a check, and everyone's happy.

And then, in two months, something goes wrong with the car. You take it to your own mechanic, who after much grappling with the car, says, "Hey, did you get into a crash with this thing? Because your framistat gronulator is all out of whack, and when I opened it up, it looked like something had hit it really hard a couple of months ago, even though you can't tell by looking at it, and the cracks got bigger and bigger until it stopped working." And then the nice lady isn't returning your phone calls anymore because she thinks you're trying to take her for a ride and you have to tell your insurance company that you just didn't bother telling them about a fairly major accident, and they say "Fuck no we're not paying for a new framistat gronulator and by the way we're cancelling your policy for not telling us about this."

Call your insurance company. This is what they do. If she's rich enough to deal with this, she's rich enough to pay her daughter's justifiably higher insurance rates.
posted by Etrigan at 12:47 PM on August 11, 2015 [67 favorites]

When my son was a new driver he turned in front of someone and dented their BMW. This was his second accident as a new driver, unfortunately. We said to the owner of the BMW, "Get it fixed and let us pay for it." That is what we did, with no police report or insurance involvement. Their car was fixed within a week and we paid a couple thousand bucks.

Give them a chance to make you whole. Assume that they mean well and do not need to be punished for their supposed affluence.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 12:47 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

What's your write off value (e.g. blue book)? Would it be reasonable for you to just ask for that and get a replacement vehicle?
posted by bonehead at 12:50 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


Hi. My parked car was totaled like this. Your car is considerably more fucked up than mine, and mine was totaled because the frame was bent. Your frame is bent and that's not safe.

Your car is not ever going to be the same. At 10 years old, not worth fixing or selling with this type of accident.

Quote crazy lady a price $5k over the price of your car's blue book value. Sell you car for parts. Buy a sweet new car. Make sure she pays cash or a cashier's check.

If that falls through, file the claim.
posted by jbenben at 12:51 PM on August 11, 2015 [39 favorites]

I mean, Etrigan is right that there may be a problem that isn't immediately apparent, but if you don't have uninsured motorist anyway you might have been stuck for it and even if you weren't, you likely would have the same problem collecting from your insurance 2 months from now. And your insurance premium will go up. Yeah, I know you were parked. Yeah, I know it can't possibly be your fault. And yeah, your premium will go up.

I'd take the money. But get it quick because if it doesn't work out for some reason, your insurance company is going to look at you suspiciously and say, "so yeah tell me again why it is that you didn't call the day it happened?"
posted by janey47 at 12:52 PM on August 11, 2015

Yeah, either file a claim or have her write you a cashier's check for a new car.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:54 PM on August 11, 2015

File the claim. File the claim.

The only time I've dealt with these things in a non-police/insurance way is when there is essentially no damage to either vehicle. And that has STILL blown up in my face when the person who hit ME started making trouble about it months later after seeming really nice and normal (and wealthy).
posted by French Fry at 12:55 PM on August 11, 2015 [4 favorites]

I can't stress enough how many ways this can go south if you let her pay you off and fix the car, so for goodness sake, please do not take her money unless it is $$ over the amount of the car value or repair cost.

Do you get what I'm laying down between my two comments? It's only worth the risk if she pays above and beyond to cover what would be loss of value, loss of use, rental, replacement & hassle.

Not willing to press for all this money from her?

Call your insurance company asap.
posted by jbenben at 12:56 PM on August 11, 2015 [7 favorites]

A similar question.
posted by Solomon at 12:58 PM on August 11, 2015

I have worked with our insurance to get things fixed in exactly this circumstance. This is what you are paying your insurance for. Don't let anyone bully you into not using it.
posted by doomsey at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2015 [6 favorites]

There are no situations in which you should ever settle out of court without going through your insurance. Ever. Her sob story is her problem.
posted by Hermione Granger at 12:59 PM on August 11, 2015 [5 favorites]

I would quote her the retail blue book value of your car PLUS the expected sales tax, license and registration fees of a new car.

If she's not willing to cover those expenses -- expenses you would NOT have incurred if her daughter was more careful -- then I would take it to insurance.
posted by Ostara at 1:00 PM on August 11, 2015

I spent so long typing this that I fear it's part of a pile-on now but: if these people are wealthy they can afford the raised insurance. If they're so wealthy they don't want to deal with car insurance, Washington state has options for that, too, and you can encourage them to look into that in the future.
posted by ftm at 1:02 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: What's your write off value (e.g. blue book)? Would it be reasonable for you to just ask for that and get a replacement vehicle?

Around $4000 at best, which is part of the reason i was even considering this.

I'm now considering the possibility that the car is totalled... which ugh, god dammit, this car was a replacement one just a couple years ago for another car that got totalled in a stupid and unexpected way like this.

I really hope this is not the case, because used car hunting sucks and that's not a whole lot of money to get something great(which this car was, it's seriously bulletproof) but... phooey.

This seems pretty damn unanimous, so i contacted my partner and told her to call the insurance company. Thanks all.
posted by emptythought at 1:04 PM on August 11, 2015 [6 favorites]

The point of insurance is to mitigate the risk of having to pay off the damage. They have decided that they think the cost of the damage will be less than the increased cost of coverage.

There are really two questions at play.

1) Do you file a claim with your insurance company.

2) Do you file a traffic accident report with the police.

The first is "Hello, my car has been damaged/destroyed and I've been paying you to mitigate that risk, and would like to collect on that policy." The second is "Hello, I have a possible civil tort and a crime may have been committed."

The insurance company is a perfect intermediary to deal with them to say "Hey, if you're willing to pay the damages, that's fine, you pay us, we'll pay him." Call them. They may insist that you file a report with the police. This is what they are hoping you do not do, because what they did is, in fact, a crime -- they hit you car, causing major damage, and left. Leaving a note? Almost certainly not enough given the damage. They should have stopped, called the cops themselves and filed a report. If you didn't show, then they leave a note and can leave.

(If they did tell the cops, obviously, they're good there.)

What they want is this not to show up on a license and jack up insurance costs.

So, the answer to me is

1) Yes, you call your insurance and 2) Yes, you call the cops.
posted by eriko at 1:04 PM on August 11, 2015 [4 favorites]

You should definitely report the incident to your insurance. There is absolutely no downside regardless of how you want to go-- this does not open a claim, it wasn't your fault anyway, and you are required to report all incidents to them as part of your policy. You can still settle person-to-person later if you want (I recently did all this and insurance had no issues at all with us settling without their involvement).

That said, my incident in question was quite minor (total damage was $300 cosmetic issue, no injuries, etc). There is no way I'd forgo involving insurance in a situation like yours.
posted by veery at 1:06 PM on August 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

The left rear quarter panel, bumper, tail light, trunk lid, and quite a bit of internal stuff underneath(cabin vent, body panel around all that, various internal mounting brackets) are fucked. Scoping it with a flashlight there appears to be even more internal damage.

That's too much damage, and depending on how much has been screwed up internally, the car may not be safe to drive until it's fixed. If you're not a mechanic, don't assume.

This is precisely what you pay insurance for. Call them and file a claim. Do it properly. If they write the car off as totalled, then you'll be better off.
posted by zarq at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Two things that are worse than the dents:

* Your car was parked, so if it was in gear or [P]ark, which is common, your transmission has been...touched.

* Your car was parked and was hit in one corner. Is there a curb that the other side of the car was pushed against? That's one way frames get bent
posted by rhizome at 1:16 PM on August 11, 2015 [6 favorites]

We went through this exact scenario, said no, involved the insurance, and then did have the two-months-later deal of having problems with the car that tied back to the repair being done incorrectly. Having gone through the insurance, it was the simplest thing in the world to get resolved.
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:21 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

On seeing your followup, if you go though insurance, you're almost asssuredly not coming out of this whole. $4k to replace your car? If this lady has money, and wants to avoid insurance/police/etc, I agree with others's, look at your car's expected pay out. Add $1k-5k convenience fee (whatever you feel negotiating for), cost of licensing and sales tax, and pitch it to her as such. "The car's undriveable, and I realize you don't want an accident on your daughter's record involving a totalled car. $X (break it out for her), and I can be made hole and sign away that we're all happy.

Even if you only add $1k convenience fee, this will likely happen much sooner than insurance will get it's act together. Will insurance cover a rented car for the weeks for them to pay out?
posted by nobeagle at 1:35 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

Best answer: I know you already replied saying you would call the insurance, but if you're feeling guilty, imagine they left a note saying, "Hi, my daughter hit your car which is going to cause trouble and anxiety for us down the road. Instead, could we make the trouble and anxiety your problem? There's nothing in it for you, but we don't really deal with things like this. By the way, the reason we can ask you to do this for us is because we're super rich. Aren't laws just the worst? Plus quibbling over money is so petty. (Well, when other people do it-- we'll get a cashier fired if she double-charges us for our beet juice.) Buh-bye, loves!"

Like, seriously, rich people who think they can skirt the law when it's troublesome and shouldn't have to pay for things they don't want to (even when they can afford it!) are the exact people I would NOT want to enter into this agreement with.

The only way it works out for you is if she essentially buys you a decent replacement car.
posted by easter queen at 1:39 PM on August 11, 2015 [26 favorites]

I'd accept a payoff if it was, say, a tiny dent in a panel. Something like this? No way in hell.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:46 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

The insurance company will write you a check for the blue book value; they're going to total this car given it's relatively low value. They are not going to pay to get this car fixed to it's previous condition, it would be cheaper to total it. So, why have her file a claim when you can get a cashier's check for at least that right now? I don't think you should aim to rip this person off, but it would benefit you to get a slight bit more from her, say a couple hundred bucks, than blue book value to compensate you for the inconvenience, and you surely won't get an "inconvenience" payout from the insurance. Also, how can you be sure her insurance will pay if you didn't file a police report? Anyway, it's only a car, it was an ACCIDENT, no one was hurt, why so pissed off and hostile?
posted by waving at 1:49 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

I don't think it's hit and run if there's no injury and you leave your information.
posted by rhizome at 1:55 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Settling a minor accident without involving the insurance company is not illegal, and your insurance company will not cancel you or be punitive because you didn't file. I think it's only WISE if you can be SURE that no other problem will surface. Given that the car is 10+ years old, it's not worth a great deal (I know, it was a great car before this happened - it's still not worth much financially, which means you cannot get ahead by involving insurance compared to the scenario I suggest below)...

They owe you two things to stay out of insurance:

- a rental car for a reasonable length of time. Not them carting you around to help you deal with the repair or replacement, a rental car.
- with a car of this age, I'd shoot for the book value of the car.

Find out RETAIL book value, and suggest they pay that (don't forget sales tax and doc fees on top of that; get a used car dealer to help you figure that) because the kind of damage you describe is probably going to be more than that on a car like this.

If they don't want to do that, then you call up the insurance company and you take your chances, is what you say to them. Do NOT let them get involved with paying the body shop, selecting the body shop, shepherding you around. They get you a rental car. You're not making friends here, and they're not helping you figure this out. You're a grownup and this is a financial transaction. They're not taking you under their wing; they're paying the damages their child inflicted.

Once you get the check from them, you then look at repairing or replacing the car. My guess is the cost of repairing it RIGHT will exceed the car's value.

All that said, if they balk at ANYTHING, involve the police/insurance and SOON.
posted by randomkeystrike at 1:55 PM on August 11, 2015 [5 favorites]

And really, given the two-month-ghosts mentioned in this thread, I'd just replace.
posted by rhizome at 1:57 PM on August 11, 2015

So, if you are in Washington, it appears that the law requires a report of this collision. Yet another reason to call your insurance company and the police.

Besides what everyone else has said, you don't want to make this deal because you don't know this person or what her real resources are, and you have no recourse if she welches in any way.
posted by bearwife at 2:00 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

It's a 10 year old car. That's a big problem.

The cost to repair the car is going to be higher than the value.
Hence the insurance company will not repair it, but will cut you a small cheque and they will then scrap the car. No worries about hidden damage down the road.

The insurance cheque will probably not cover getting a flawless grandma's replacement.
Pain in the ass when it's a decent 10 year old car, bit that's what happens.

If you can get an offer above blue book , then you could take it

See what they'll pay for the car, as is of course.
posted by yyz at 2:01 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: For the people questioning if it counts as a hit and run, as shown above the threshold is $500 in property damage in my state for reporting it, it's not only personal injury here. I think just the bumper cover and tail light lens put it over that.

I'm going to call her and explain the entire situation, including that, and what it would realistically cost me including taxes to replace the car and see if she bites. If not, i'm just calling the cops and the insurance company.

I have absolutely no interest in, nor time, to go around getting estimates from shops and forwarding them to her and having to talk/argue about it or any of that crap. The only valid options here seem to be an entire-value + some change settlement, or insurance. And i'm really worried about insurance just totalling the car :(
posted by emptythought at 2:09 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: DO NOT TALK TO HER ANY MORE. Contact the cops and file a report first, and then contact your insurance.

I am putting that in caps because it is SERIOUSLY not in your best interest to continue talking to this person by yourself. Everything you do from here on out has to go through your insurance to cover your ass. You are 100% unprotected if you go this alone. You are not legally guaranteed ANY deal you make outside of your insurance and I speak from personal experience when I say that trying to get the full value of the car from someone like this is a fool's errand.
posted by Hermione Granger at 2:11 PM on August 11, 2015 [18 favorites]

Best answer: If you are concerned about the woman's claim that it will "affect her daughter," consider that her daughter may not be ready for a driver's license. This is not your problem.

Don't talk to these people. Call the insurance company.
posted by corey flood at 2:21 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Srsly, don't call them. Call insurance first. Don't get sweet-talked out of this. You needed a car, you had a car, but through their doofussery, you don't have a driveable car any more. Your insurer is bigger than them, and doesn't care if they came across on the Mayflower/are second cousins to the Kardashians.

Someone who'd do that much damage to a parked car is a dangerous driver, and at least should pay the insurance premiums required to maintain that. If you let them settle in cash, your insurance money is supporting dangerous drivers.
posted by scruss at 2:29 PM on August 11, 2015 [4 favorites]

I have both taken cash and paid cash to avoid dealing with insurance, an haven't regretted it. Verify the cash first and take it if it looks like not than your insurance would pay. Report if welshing occurs or if it seems like she is stalling.
posted by corb at 2:33 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

That's one way frames get bent

Frame? How quaint. :-) Most cars are unibody (aka semi-monoconque) construction nowadays, there's no separate frame. Which means it's even worse, you've bent the entire thing in three dimensions.

You can pull the car back true. This involves pulling *everything* off the car, putting it on a body table, and pulling the body back into line. You do this only for very rare cars that are basically unreplaceable. In terms of safety, they'll never be as safe as they were.

If you are concerned about the woman's claim that it will "affect her daughter," consider that her daughter may not be ready for a driver's license.

Consider that her daughter may not have had a license and she is attempting to shield her from that crime as well.
posted by eriko at 2:49 PM on August 11, 2015 [6 favorites]

Response by poster: Consider that her daughter may not have had a license and she is attempting to shield her from that crime as well.

Yea, this is involved here.

I ended up bailing on the cash out idea because she didn't believe there ~possibly~ could have been this much damage, and wanted me to leave work, go get the car(and drive it?!? the left rear wheel is tweaked, i realized), and take it to a body shop and get an estimate first... which is also problematic for the broken-parts reasons mentioned above.

She also offered to go get the car herself and drive it to the shop for me which... who would think that was ok? who would let some random parent of some girl they've never met do that? who even suggests that? seriously!?!?

I calmly stated all my reasons for why i thought just paying me out was the only other fair option, and she hemmed and hawed and talked about her daughter only being 15 and how she at least wanted her to be able to drive at 18(despite the fact that she apparently snuck out with the car at when her mom wasn't home and did this... "for no reason") which just... isn't my problem?

Oh well, you had your chance lady, off to insurance it goes.
posted by emptythought at 2:52 PM on August 11, 2015 [48 favorites]

And that's why you always go through your insurance.
posted by grouse at 3:25 PM on August 11, 2015 [5 favorites]

Well, lady is choosing to run with the idiot ball. You did all you could.
posted by corb at 3:52 PM on August 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: As a lulztastic update(and sorry if this counts as threadsitting i'll shut up for now but this was just too good), She left me an absolutely gawkworthy voicemail about how like, disappointed she was i called my insurance instead of calling her back again which ok...

But then about how her car(which judging by the height of impact, it completely overrode my bumper meaning it had to be a large SUV or something along those lines) only suffered about $150 of damage, and that unless there's something else going on here, at which point my jaw dropped, it shouldn't be that much and bla bla bla. And that i guess we'd never need to talk again because oh well, your insurance called and i gave them the info.

At this point it became painfully obvious that i was about to get fucked over when the bill came back and there was just no way it could possibly be that high and she'd want to fight over it, and refuse to settle out like she said she would if the repair cost was high or in total-territory.

I'm probably never considering this again, and tbh i warn anyone else on here to avoid it as well. It was like i had poked the great dragon of conniving passive aggression.

Still in shock with the amount of passive aggressive sass she delivered the something else going on line though. It made me think of the most cartoon caricature of an old purse clutching rich lady.
posted by emptythought at 5:29 PM on August 11, 2015 [32 favorites]

You reported this to the police, right? (The accident not the batshit phone call)
posted by tinkletown at 6:34 PM on August 11, 2015 [12 favorites]

Please report her daughter to the police!!

She needs consequences. She's lucky no one was injured or died. Please file a police report!!
posted by jbenben at 11:09 PM on August 11, 2015 [6 favorites]

About a week after getting my license, I managed to rear end another car by getting the gears wrong and going backwards down a hill. I banged their car (some old Buick boat) and totaled my parents' car (which they'd JUST paid off). I was lucky the other folks didn't involve insurance, but: 1) I was their neighbor, and 2) we paid off their whole blue book in cash, emptying my savings and putting me in deep debt to my parents. (Or: Why I was the only one of my friends to have a real job in high school.) I wouldn't rule out informal options entirely in the future, but I think you handled this about exactly right.
posted by klangklangston at 12:02 AM on August 12, 2015 [2 favorites]

Please file a police report.

FWIW, there are occasionally legitimate reasons for both parties to handle things off-the-books in good faith. This would involve a rental car until repair or replacement well above the value of the damage, and nothing illegal having transpired. Possibly also a written agreement of some sort, which you'd have time for your own lawyer to review. And no raised voices. Clearly, this was not one of those cases.

Please file a police report. A 15-year-old who'll take a car out "for no reason" then sees her parents handle it like this isn't going to mature into an 18-year-old I want to share the roads with, or park anywhere around.

It might be worth writing up the mother's repeated contacts in a letter instructing her not to contact you again. (This is where I'd pay for an hour of a lawyer's time to make sure I got it right.) Because she sounds rabidly entitled and seriously unhinged, so I'd want to lay the groundwork for a no-contact order.

Please file a police report.
posted by wonton endangerment at 11:19 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]

I think there's a lot of sense in what some have been saying about what the insurance co will pay vs. what she may pay. Typically I am all for going to the insurance co but if you get an estimate and it's for more than the KBB value and she's willing to cut you a check... I would do it.
posted by brownrd at 12:03 PM on August 12, 2015

Having seen this additional information, I absolutely agree with running it through insurance. I was visualizing a legally driving person, which it sounds like it wasn't. Also, she sounds like she's running the usual script which starts out reasonable but then gets pissy because it turns out things aren't going her way.

BTW, if this has gone to her insurance she doesn't get to "refuse to settle." She doesn't get a vote in this process - it's up to the insurance company, which is going to tend to pay rather than fight over a claim this obvious, especially if their insured's dependent was doing something illegal.

Again, some things you may not think about/things you could get ripped off on if you're not careful...

- they owe you, at minimum, a RENTAL CAR for a reasonable amount of time to take care of the situation, and the lesser of the TOTAL RETAIL VALUE of the car, including doc and tax, or cost of full repairs.
- you mentioned you don't have uninsured motorist coverage. If it turns out that her insurance a) doesn't exist b) got cancelled c) wants to balk for some reason because the driver wasn't legal, don't just assume it's game over. People have insurance because they do not want to get sued. So if she isn't adequately insured or insurance isn't covering, lawyer up. Assuming she really does have assets, you could recover the above costs plus the legal fees (I say "assuming she does" because many people who try to come off as being wealthy actually aren't, really).

And get uninsured motorist coverage. Lots of it. It's what covers your car and your tons and tons of medical bills if you get hit by someone with no insurance or assets.
posted by randomkeystrike at 12:36 PM on August 12, 2015 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: Another update for others in this situation who search ask, the total for what i(and many on here thought) was quite a bit of damage but she was convinced i was trying to rook her for ended up being like, $3800. Yes, seriously. On a car that's probably barely worth 5k. We're really lucky they didn't total it, and they didn't entirely because we pleaded with them not to as far as i can tell.

And that was in addition to over two weeks of a(nice) rental car, and a lot of hassle(the rental car and car had to be picked up/dropped off at a really out of the way inconvenient insurance center, other crap involved scheduling around that).

This very easily could have turned in to a stupid as hell "there's no way i caused all THAT/you're just trying to get me to pay for existing damage!" sort of bonestorm.

If this ever comes up again and i get any pushback i'm just going to be like "yea, well i have to head to aruba on business tomorrow morning so can i just get your insurance info to give to my company? thanks bye"
posted by emptythought at 5:09 PM on September 10, 2015 [6 favorites]

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