How do I tell s/o they need to change everything they do in bed, for me?
August 10, 2015 9:56 PM Subscribe
I'm wrestling between not trying to date this person - who's one of my best friends - and trying to make it work. The problem is the sexuality - either the chemistry is off, or it needs to be adjusted. I just don't know *how* to do that, without hurting his feelings, or if I should at all.
We're great friends, & dated once for a few months a couple years ago. When we slept together, he was terrible for me, but I could make it work for me if I was in charge, so to speak. Later on, a traumatic event shattered our relationship, we didn't speak for some time, and now we're friends again.
Fast forward to last fall, I developed feelings for him again, and tried to date, but when we kissed it was all wrong. I found myself almost repulsed, and never tried again. That was that, and we went back to being friends.
I still find myself longing for him, and likely he for I. We were never good at communicating our feelings about each other, to each other. I was always afraid of hurting him. Some months later, neither of us have dated anyone else, and we continue to have wonderful moments of connection, unlike any I've know before. I'm tempted to try again, but I would basically have to tell him, to completely do everything differently, and I don't know how to do that without destroying his delicate self-esteem (this is athing he struggles with).
I've had way ore experience than he has, but I'm not good at telling people what to do in bed; it usually just sort of clicks, or not. How can I do this? Should I do this? Should I just give up? Telling him to watch porn is out of the question bec he has a problem with that (he's a little uptight sexually). Advise? :(
We're great friends, & dated once for a few months a couple years ago. When we slept together, he was terrible for me, but I could make it work for me if I was in charge, so to speak. Later on, a traumatic event shattered our relationship, we didn't speak for some time, and now we're friends again.
Fast forward to last fall, I developed feelings for him again, and tried to date, but when we kissed it was all wrong. I found myself almost repulsed, and never tried again. That was that, and we went back to being friends.
I still find myself longing for him, and likely he for I. We were never good at communicating our feelings about each other, to each other. I was always afraid of hurting him. Some months later, neither of us have dated anyone else, and we continue to have wonderful moments of connection, unlike any I've know before. I'm tempted to try again, but I would basically have to tell him, to completely do everything differently, and I don't know how to do that without destroying his delicate self-esteem (this is athing he struggles with).
I've had way ore experience than he has, but I'm not good at telling people what to do in bed; it usually just sort of clicks, or not. How can I do this? Should I do this? Should I just give up? Telling him to watch porn is out of the question bec he has a problem with that (he's a little uptight sexually). Advise? :(
Are you attracted to him? Is it like you really want to get sexual with this guy, but then you try it and feels wrong? That's maybe something you can work with. You can try different things. But if you just really don't want to get sexual with this guy and you're trying to force it, I'd say give it up.
If you know what you need, maybe you can present it like you have particular kinks. If he's too gentle, for instance, you can say, "I can't get off unless everything is really rough. That's my thing, rough sex." You could present it like a fetish, like what he does isn't bad but you have this fantasy about a guy acting a certain way and you just can't enjoy yourself any other way.
You can think of it kind of like training a pet, that you reward him when he does stuff right instead of discouraging him when he gets stuff wrong. If he's a messy kisser, say something like, "I've got this thing for really light kisses. Those drive me wild. You know, like this..." Then when he gives you non-messy kisses, give him lots of positive feedback.
That's only if you really want him, though. If you don't desire him, don't waste his or your time.
You wish he'd watch porn for tips, and that and the repulsion comment lead me to guess that he's more gentle or submissive than you'd like, and perhaps that he seems "unmanly" to you on some level. (If he was too dominant for you in bed, you probably wouldn't be longing for him to act like the guys in porn.) If he's a naturally gentle guy and you don't like that, there's nothing wrong with him but this probably won't work. Perhaps the kindest way out would be to say that he is sweet, hot and wonderful, but you just have an unbreakable fetish for some other kind of guy. Put the onus on yourself, and don't make him feel bad for not being your type.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:36 PM on August 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
If you know what you need, maybe you can present it like you have particular kinks. If he's too gentle, for instance, you can say, "I can't get off unless everything is really rough. That's my thing, rough sex." You could present it like a fetish, like what he does isn't bad but you have this fantasy about a guy acting a certain way and you just can't enjoy yourself any other way.
You can think of it kind of like training a pet, that you reward him when he does stuff right instead of discouraging him when he gets stuff wrong. If he's a messy kisser, say something like, "I've got this thing for really light kisses. Those drive me wild. You know, like this..." Then when he gives you non-messy kisses, give him lots of positive feedback.
That's only if you really want him, though. If you don't desire him, don't waste his or your time.
You wish he'd watch porn for tips, and that and the repulsion comment lead me to guess that he's more gentle or submissive than you'd like, and perhaps that he seems "unmanly" to you on some level. (If he was too dominant for you in bed, you probably wouldn't be longing for him to act like the guys in porn.) If he's a naturally gentle guy and you don't like that, there's nothing wrong with him but this probably won't work. Perhaps the kindest way out would be to say that he is sweet, hot and wonderful, but you just have an unbreakable fetish for some other kind of guy. Put the onus on yourself, and don't make him feel bad for not being your type.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:36 PM on August 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
I developed feelings for him again, and tried to date, but when we kissed it was all wrong. I found myself almost repulsed, and never tried again.
Aah... I don't really know if this can be rehabilitated into something that makes sense for you :/ Sometimes there are particular things a person does that are kind of "wrong" (for you), and maybe some room for learning on both sides, but sometimes, it's kind of just the person (their smell or feel or whatever).
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:46 PM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Aah... I don't really know if this can be rehabilitated into something that makes sense for you :/ Sometimes there are particular things a person does that are kind of "wrong" (for you), and maybe some room for learning on both sides, but sometimes, it's kind of just the person (their smell or feel or whatever).
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:46 PM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
About 13 years ago, my best friend and I "accidentally" had sex. It was so so bad. SO BAD. We agreed never to do it or talk about it again and to just keep on with our friendship like it never happened. He wasn't my type at all and I know he wasn't attracted to me either. As it turned out, we were young, stupid and living in the same house, so while we weren't monogamous we did continue to have (terrible) sex on the regular. Many years later we have an amazing (to me) relationship, a daughter and a deeply satisfying sex life. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here except that a lack of immediate sexual chemistry doesn't mean your romantic relationship is doomed. If you are both coming from a place of love and respect for each other, and are willing to ride out the occasional awkwardness and hurt feelings in exchange for honesty and trust, you might be surprised. I feel like our relationship and our mutual attraction is so much stronger because of it.
posted by Wantok at 11:43 PM on August 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Wantok at 11:43 PM on August 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
Unless he's working on his self esteem issues and you're both working on communicating, this is probably doomed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:08 AM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:08 AM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, try communicating in different ways, such as email or letters. Not being face to face can be less stressful.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:13 AM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:13 AM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I developed feelings for him again, and tried to date, but when we kissed it was all wrong. I found myself almost repulsed, and never tried again.
I'm filing this one in the cabinet for the department of "you want this to work intellectually because it seems like it should, but it doesn't actually".
You've been successfully sold the cutco knife set which is the concept of this relationship. You don't actually WANT this relationship, in the ways that matter.
It's not worth riding up these whitewater rapids for the chance that this might work out with a bunch of time or a bunch of effort. This is basic day one foot in the door stuff that isn't working.
It's easy for a friendship to at times, feel like it is or could be a romantic relationship. I feel like they work on a lot of the same parts of the brain. Confusing the two is quite easy, and i feel like these are Big Obvious Red Flags this isn't meant to be.
I've seen people wrestle with these kinds of things in DOA relationships and drag them on for years even. Just get out now. Anecdotal statistics say it might get better, but it will never be great.
posted by emptythought at 12:23 AM on August 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm filing this one in the cabinet for the department of "you want this to work intellectually because it seems like it should, but it doesn't actually".
You've been successfully sold the cutco knife set which is the concept of this relationship. You don't actually WANT this relationship, in the ways that matter.
It's not worth riding up these whitewater rapids for the chance that this might work out with a bunch of time or a bunch of effort. This is basic day one foot in the door stuff that isn't working.
It's easy for a friendship to at times, feel like it is or could be a romantic relationship. I feel like they work on a lot of the same parts of the brain. Confusing the two is quite easy, and i feel like these are Big Obvious Red Flags this isn't meant to be.
I've seen people wrestle with these kinds of things in DOA relationships and drag them on for years even. Just get out now. Anecdotal statistics say it might get better, but it will never be great.
posted by emptythought at 12:23 AM on August 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Just stay friends. If they don't smell/feel right, it just won't work in bed.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:15 AM on August 11, 2015
posted by Jacqueline at 7:15 AM on August 11, 2015
but when we kissed it was all wrong. I found myself almost repulsed, and never tried again
Non-transient feelings of repulsion are pretty much a dealbreaker, in my books.
It sounds like this is the kind of thing that works on paper and doesn't work in reality. Presuming that this person's issues aren't around consent, it sounds like you're just a total mismatch in bed. That happens, and it sucks when it's an otherwise great person. Thing is, when there's a mismatch, it takes both people wanting to work on it and meeting in the middle. I don't get the sense from your question that meeting in the middle is something that would work for you--and that's okay!--and it seems unfair to expect a potential partner to completely change their sexual behaviours just for you.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:07 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Non-transient feelings of repulsion are pretty much a dealbreaker, in my books.
It sounds like this is the kind of thing that works on paper and doesn't work in reality. Presuming that this person's issues aren't around consent, it sounds like you're just a total mismatch in bed. That happens, and it sucks when it's an otherwise great person. Thing is, when there's a mismatch, it takes both people wanting to work on it and meeting in the middle. I don't get the sense from your question that meeting in the middle is something that would work for you--and that's okay!--and it seems unfair to expect a potential partner to completely change their sexual behaviours just for you.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:07 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
It really depends on whether your mismatch is about specific things or not. For example; 'He's a bit docile, but it turns me on when he takes charge in the bedroom and calls me dirty names,' vs 'When we kiss, I feel kind of ugh about it.'
If it's the latter then I don't think it's something you can fix, because it isn't specific action that can be done or altered. If you can't really pinpoint why you're being turned off, then I'd have to agree your chemistry is off. You can ask someone to do specific thing you like, because specific thing turns you on. You can't ask someone to change their core being.
In my experience, chemistry can be built when there is none initially. However, if lack of chemistry also includes a deep seated revulsion on some level, there's no real way to cure it.
For example. Last year, on the eve of a trip, I had my heart broken pretty brutally. While overseas, I met a few guys who seemed to like me. One was a younger guy with movie star bad-boy looks. He knew my situation and hit on me pretty strongly while I was there. I was kind of up for it; I had been in a LTR most of my life and had only been with two guys prior to this, and I kind of wanted to get out there more. So as he made the moves on me, to cuddle me etc, I distinctly remember being attracted to him on an intellectual level-- liking his body type and his looks a lot-- but when he looked into my eyes and asked if he could kiss me, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't bring myself to want to be intimate with him, or kiss him. So I said 'no' -- I this had a weird internal revulsion; almost as if he was like a sibling to me or something. I knew that had I kissed him, I'd have not enjoyed it. So I pulled away and told him I wasn't ready yet-- which he respected. As we just sat and watched TV, he asked me if he could hold me a little. I said yes, but I remember feeling really stiff around him, and I remember him actually saying to me, 'Hey? Why are you so always so awkward?' I didn't have an answer. Intellectually, I should have been all over him, but for me, at least, it literally felt like I couldn't relax-- like it was all wrong.
I chalked it up to his age relative to mine (early 20s, late 20s) and my inexperience at the time -- I hadn't known him long, I was a little rusty, and I hadn't been with a lot of men prior to this and I was kinda nervous about it. Moreover, I'm cute but I'm not exactly conventional in my body type-- here was this fit attractive younger bad boy that all the women wanted, and I figured my awkwardness was due to all of the above.
I met my now-boyfriend around around that time, and we knew each other for a similar amount. Very similar situation-- he liked me. Slightly younger, more experienced, better looking than my exes... it had been a while for me, etc. I still had the same nerves settle over me when he started flirting with me. If anything, he is not as conventionally attractive as the other guy. Except that when we started to flirt, and when we cuddled and touched there was no awkwardness or stiffness or anything like that. Snuggling close to him felt natural, and when he asked if he could kiss me, I had no misgivings or hesitation. If I could describe it, it was that all of it felt right. It was like night and day compared to the other situation.
Plot twist was that I didn't feel I had 'chemistry' with either of them. I only noticed sparks between my boyfriend when things started getting flirty, and when things escalated. I didn't even know it was there until then. On the other hand, the sparks died when the other guy made his move.
I'm really glad I listened to my gut with the other guy, because I'm sure that we just didn't have 'it' together, even though he felt it-- I did not, and I don't think something like that just goes away. I can't pinpoint why it felt 'off' to be close to the other guy-- on paper I should have been into it-- but it wasn't something he was actually doing that was a turn off.
Sorry for the short story. But my take is that you should listen to your gut. I don't think you can find desire where you tried already, and not only was there no spark, the spark died. There will be a person you long for that also feels 'right' to you when you're intimate together. You deserve that. He deserves someone like that too.
posted by Dimes at 8:15 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
If it's the latter then I don't think it's something you can fix, because it isn't specific action that can be done or altered. If you can't really pinpoint why you're being turned off, then I'd have to agree your chemistry is off. You can ask someone to do specific thing you like, because specific thing turns you on. You can't ask someone to change their core being.
In my experience, chemistry can be built when there is none initially. However, if lack of chemistry also includes a deep seated revulsion on some level, there's no real way to cure it.
For example. Last year, on the eve of a trip, I had my heart broken pretty brutally. While overseas, I met a few guys who seemed to like me. One was a younger guy with movie star bad-boy looks. He knew my situation and hit on me pretty strongly while I was there. I was kind of up for it; I had been in a LTR most of my life and had only been with two guys prior to this, and I kind of wanted to get out there more. So as he made the moves on me, to cuddle me etc, I distinctly remember being attracted to him on an intellectual level-- liking his body type and his looks a lot-- but when he looked into my eyes and asked if he could kiss me, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't bring myself to want to be intimate with him, or kiss him. So I said 'no' -- I this had a weird internal revulsion; almost as if he was like a sibling to me or something. I knew that had I kissed him, I'd have not enjoyed it. So I pulled away and told him I wasn't ready yet-- which he respected. As we just sat and watched TV, he asked me if he could hold me a little. I said yes, but I remember feeling really stiff around him, and I remember him actually saying to me, 'Hey? Why are you so always so awkward?' I didn't have an answer. Intellectually, I should have been all over him, but for me, at least, it literally felt like I couldn't relax-- like it was all wrong.
I chalked it up to his age relative to mine (early 20s, late 20s) and my inexperience at the time -- I hadn't known him long, I was a little rusty, and I hadn't been with a lot of men prior to this and I was kinda nervous about it. Moreover, I'm cute but I'm not exactly conventional in my body type-- here was this fit attractive younger bad boy that all the women wanted, and I figured my awkwardness was due to all of the above.
I met my now-boyfriend around around that time, and we knew each other for a similar amount. Very similar situation-- he liked me. Slightly younger, more experienced, better looking than my exes... it had been a while for me, etc. I still had the same nerves settle over me when he started flirting with me. If anything, he is not as conventionally attractive as the other guy. Except that when we started to flirt, and when we cuddled and touched there was no awkwardness or stiffness or anything like that. Snuggling close to him felt natural, and when he asked if he could kiss me, I had no misgivings or hesitation. If I could describe it, it was that all of it felt right. It was like night and day compared to the other situation.
Plot twist was that I didn't feel I had 'chemistry' with either of them. I only noticed sparks between my boyfriend when things started getting flirty, and when things escalated. I didn't even know it was there until then. On the other hand, the sparks died when the other guy made his move.
I'm really glad I listened to my gut with the other guy, because I'm sure that we just didn't have 'it' together, even though he felt it-- I did not, and I don't think something like that just goes away. I can't pinpoint why it felt 'off' to be close to the other guy-- on paper I should have been into it-- but it wasn't something he was actually doing that was a turn off.
Sorry for the short story. But my take is that you should listen to your gut. I don't think you can find desire where you tried already, and not only was there no spark, the spark died. There will be a person you long for that also feels 'right' to you when you're intimate together. You deserve that. He deserves someone like that too.
posted by Dimes at 8:15 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Back in the days when I patronized casinos more regularly than I do now, I often noticed regulars saying "You have to ask for what you want." This maxim's application should not be confined to casinos. It is unclear whether you are following it, or indeed whether you want to.
posted by Mr. Justice at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2015
posted by Mr. Justice at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2015
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I don't know if making the attempt is going to be worth it for you guys or not - but if you want a long term relationship out of this, you'll have to fix this. Even if you want a short term relationship with satisfying sex you'll have to fix it.
That said - sexual compatibility is a big deal, just like personality compatibility and values/goals compatibility. If his self esteem is that delicate that you can't talk about what he's doing in bed - which may not be capital-R Wrong but doesn't sound like a good fit for you, then I don't see a way forward for this, really.
It's interesting to me that you suggest he watch porn to improve what he does in bed. Often porn is the cause of, not the solution to, bad bedroom habits for guys. But if you just want to give him some ideas, maybe some porn filmed by women that features people in relationships might not push his ethical buttons. If his ethical buttons are just being pushed by the idea of porn, that's probably just another indicator that you two are too sexually mismatched for this to be a good fit.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:20 PM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]