Baby's first home renovation.

July 31, 2015 6:17 PM

We're converting half our attached garage into finished space. We got a single quote from a general contractor and now we're considering doing the bulk of the project ourselves. We are new at this, but want to get better. How do we start to tackle a fairly serious renovation, possibly without a general contractor?

We'd love a bit more space in our house, namely for projects and the occasional guest to crash in. Our house has an attached garage that's pretty boss (oh man, all that wood paneling looks as glorious in person as it does in real life).

I drew up rough plans to convert half* the garage to 'finished' space, and took said plans to a contractor. He said it looked workable, that the city would probably approve it all, and came out for a visit to give us a quote. His quote quite a bit higher than we were hoping to spend. We've yet to find another contractor to get a quote from; everyone in town is super booked out and not even able to give quotes. Hence, we're exploring our DIY options.

*yes, only half. We commute by bike primarily, so having quick access to our bikes is pretty important, and having a little mini-shop up front there is going to be pretty convenient. We're not considering doing the whole garage.

Part one: Is this a good idea? Are we drunk off too much HGTV and Bob the Builder episodes? Should we stick with a general contractor? I have time to burn on projects like this, and have a fairly flexible work schedule. Timing on this project isn't important to us. If it takes 6 months to DIY it, but we can save $3-4 grand, I'm totally okay with that. Would acting like our own general contractor and just hiring subs to do all the work save us enough money to consider doing that? Or are we destined for DIY land?

Part two: So, assuming that its a fine idea to DIY a project like this…where exactly do we start? I know the plans need to be approved by the city, plumbing and electrical (4 outlets) needs to be moved to allow drywall placement, new wall framing up, door up, plywood on one side of the wall then insulation and drywall…or is that incorrect? The window needs to be replaced too, but we're under the assumption that could be done towards the end of the project, or separately all together.

Other pertinents:
-We'd like to have this work permitted and legal.
-Jurisdiction is Portland, Ore (mentioned because permitting for things varies from place to place so much).
-We have access to a great tool library, family members with amazing tools, and a little know-how. We also have a very handy family member in town, willing to help in September for a full week and change.
-Dryer is electric, and the water heater is gas (gas lines are actually running through the ceiling, so nothing needs to be moved there).
-I'm the kind of learner that needs to do something once or twice before I get the hang of it…but if someone shows me how to do it, I can mimic pretty well (especially with projects like this ). But if I don't have a good resource for that, work will slow down pretty significantly, and I don't want to stall out.

Basically, we're just looking for advice on how to proceed, plan, and resources to check out on how to break ground as it were. We both come from families who are notably handier than we are, and grew up in environments where walls were moved, decks were built and all that…but my wife and I are still very, very new at this having only bought our house a few months ago.

TL;DR-
-Should we eschew a General contractor for a project like this?
-Should we act as our own General Contractor for a project like this?
-Should we just DIY the whole shebang, and if so, how do we organize that?

posted by furnace.heart to Home & Garden (10 answers total)

1) ...how much DIY have you done? Saving money now may not be too helpful if you're going to have to spend money on repairs later.

2) My instinct as a potential buyer of your home is to be unhappy about the shrunken garage.

3) If you are going to finish this space, then you will probably also want to enclose the W/D and the H/W heater.

4) How will this space be heated?

I think this is not the type of project with which I would begin DIYing, but YMM certainly V.
posted by thomas j wise at 6:58 PM on July 31, 2015

I work in an Architectural office as the "now try to figure out how to build that weird thing I just designed/Go yell at the Contractor for screwing it up" guy, been doing it 20 years. I know which crews are good at what jobs (it's a kind of small town) and if I don't know someone, I can call one of the better GC's we work with and get recommendations. I went through a half burned out duplex in 6 months, did about half the framing, and most of the plumbing with my own hands. I acted as GC for the rest.

There is a bit more to coordinating subcontractors than you'd think. Some one is always getting peanut butter in the other guy's chocolate.

You have a very small job, not a bunch of money to be made for the subs. This affects priorities.

The other hard lesson I learned is this. The General Contractor probably has subs he uses regularly. He has other jobs coming up, so the subs don't want to p*s him off, so they get it done on time.
You, however, do not have another job coming up.
So you get a framer in there, he frames up the walls. Now, you need the electrical, plumbing, and any other in-wall stuff "roughed in". Any HVAC ducts need to be installed now, unless you want them exposed. Or maybe the situation calls for the ducts to go in during framing, like a soffit or something.
Now, hopefully all is well, you call the inspector. If it is not well, you have to get the sub back while he is on a deadline with the GC. You will not be his first priority.
If I had not known a bit about electrical and plumbing codes, I would have been screwed by subs trying to take shortcuts that would not pass inspection.

If it all goes well, then you can get the drywall (sheetrock) crew in there to hang, tape, and finish. Then paint.
Now, you have to get all those rough-ins trimmed out. See notes above about getting the sub to come back to your job.

I have a friend you used to be a medium sized GC. He gave it up, now he just does specialized work. Why? He "got tired of being a banker, a substance abuse counselor, a therapist, a baby sitter." Subs can be difficult.

I'll spare you the water cooler conversations with the Building Inspector about what he sees on homeowner performed work.

Now that we've got that out of the way, you have a very small job, someone that knew what they were doing could probably knock that out in a week and a half, at least all the work requiring inspection. From your language, frankly, you are not that person. Maybe you could be with some reading and asking questions of your knowledgeable friend.
Specific comments:
Not sure why you want to put plywood up under drywall, it will make things more interesting at trim-out time. We do it sometimes in high-abuse situations, or just use high-impact drywall.
Were it me, I'd want to enclose that laundry and hot water heater... which, by the way, since it is now in a finished space, needs a drip pan and drain from said drip pan. Water doesn't flow uphill, and you have a concrete curb in the way. Maybe it goes up on a platform and gets re-plumbed. Maybe you can drill a hole in the concrete.
Is the dryer vented to outside?

You might talk to other GC's. They will at busy times give you a "courtesy bid" - that is, a bid far in excess of the value of the work. They do not expect to get that job, but if they do, well, that is OK too. This may be what you got.
You can still be taken to the cleaners by a GC - many posts in the green about that happening to people. You need to know a good bit about what needs to happen either way.
posted by rudd135 at 7:31 PM on July 31, 2015 [6 favorites]

I'm in the middle of my own basement renovation hell right now. Let me tell you that while DIY might be fun for a day or two, it is not fun for a week or two. Or a month or two.

Depending on your family and work commitments you might only get to work on stuff for an hour or so a day at a time over several weeks, which is basically nothing. And your spouse might want to take up the rest of your time on weekends doing sort of fun things, while mentioning about the work "we" need to do.

And then maybe your spouse will keep telling you every day about all of her time spent deciding, and redeciding, and then deciding again on paint and trim and light fixtures and what in the fuck ever the drywall isn't even fully hung yet God damn can I just fucking get get 2 straight hours in a MONTH to just mud and tape this and fuck me running I honestly think I might be better off sealing myself inside this wall with all this goddam drywall and mud because then I will never have to hear about "finishes" or whatever the shit a "sconce" is again.

So. If I were you. I would do whatever demo you can on your own, and hire someone else to do the rest.

Trust me.
posted by sanka at 7:43 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: (not trying to threadsit, just trying to get specific)

how much DIY have you done?
Nothing of this scale, but I've made some basic, sturdy furniture, small woodworking projects, helped build some decks…nothing that requires inspections and meeting codes.

My instinct as a potential buyer of your home is to be unhappy about the shrunken garage
We checked with our realtor about this as a concern, but they were actually really stoked on it and showed us a couple other similar conversions in our neighborhood that have added a great deal of value to the home. Not really a concern of ours. Bikes are a big deal around here, and people don't frequently garage their cars.

How will this space be heated?
Thats one of the weirder parts of the garage; there is ducting and heating that already goes into the garage from the house. Its blocked off right now with a foam insert, but our inspector took it out to check airflow from the furnace when we purchased it, and it gets heat. I'm sure it was just blocked off to prevent waste.

Not sure why you want to put plywood up under drywall
None under the drywall, just on the backside of the exposed wall towards the garage door. We'd not like to just have exposed insulation sticking out into the future shop-zone.

Were it me, I'd want to enclose that laundry and hot water heater... which, by the way, since it is now in a finished space, needs a drip pan and drain from said drip pan.
We'd need a drip pan, but the drain from the drip-pan just needs a hose-hook up in our jurisdiction. No need for added plumbing there.

Is the dryer vented to outside?
Yup
posted by furnace.heart at 8:22 PM on July 31, 2015

I've done a bunch of major and minor reno on our old place and certainly wish I could have back some of the time spent researching and fretting over jobs I had no experience in. What you have here looks pretty manageable though. You're going to build a stud wall, insulate it, vapour barrier it and drywall it. You can buy the doors pre-hung. If your garage is sound and you're not in a rush, it looks like a manageable job. Youtube is a pretty amazing resource for all things DIY.

I know PEX is forgiving stuff but I wouldn't inset it in an exterior garage wall (but I'm in Canada, so it's probably not an issue where you are). I know it's a rough drawing but make sure your door is big enough to get a washer or dryer through.

Your local home center can be a good resource if they have the right staff. Bring photos of the garage and measured drawings of what you want to do.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:49 PM on July 31, 2015

This is such a small project that, as rudd125 described, acting as a GC yourself would be pretty difficult. DIY'ing the whole thing could work, as could hiring it all out, but I wouldn't recommend trying to wrangle subcontractors yourself.

If you do go the DIY route, you'll have to think of this project as an investment in skills that will mostly pay off on future projects. This project will proceed more slowly than you like, because you'll be climbing through one new learning curve after another.

Lastly, and outside the scope of the question a bit: what do you plan to do with the floor? Concrete seems less than cozy if this is to be a sometime guest room, and bringing drywall all the way down to the existing floor could be problematic if this area ever sees moisture during heavy rains.
posted by jon1270 at 3:31 AM on August 1, 2015

This is a perfect DIY project because it isn't time sensitive and the scale is small enough to be manageable. Personally I would DIY most of it (except for electrical and maybe plumbing) but I find those projects interesting. If it doesn't seem interesting, I would skip it, because it will be a lot of work and in the end you may not save a ton of money -- it takes only one or two medium mistakes to eat up a lot of savings.

If you already know some subcontractors (plumber, electrician, drywaller, etc) who do good work and are happy to take on small jobs, then being your own general would work fine. But if for each piece you will be working from scratch, getting bids, and so on, that will turn into a long dragged out hassle and the money you would pay to a good GC might be well spent.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:55 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

You should figure out what work you are entitled to do yourself in your jurisdiction. It varies widely, some rural places you can do everything but sanitary plumbing while a major urban area might prohibit a homeowner from everything but finishes.
posted by werkzeuger at 6:27 AM on August 1, 2015

I've done a lot of DIY at my house.

This is a relatively easy first time DIY project so just do it yourself. I can't tell from your description what exactly the electrical and plumbing "moves" are, just shifting them half an inch out to account for drywall thickness or if you mean move them laterally on the wall? But minor changes like that can be hired out to Roto-Rooter type companies (and their electrical equivalent) if necessary.

Consider enclosing the water heater and washer and dryer. Will look nicer.
Make sure your framing is straight.
Mudding drywall is an art that I cannot grasp. I hired it out.
Since you're getting a permit, you will need to be inspected which means you'll have to build to code. Know the local building code! Don't do a bunch of work only to have to tear it out because it wasn't to code.
YouTube is an amazing resource for DYI stuff.
posted by LoveHam at 7:16 AM on August 1, 2015

As a home DIYer, I agree with you that watching somebody else do a task before I attempt it myself is really helpful. I have been consistently stunned by the high quality and usefulness of YouTube videos for getting me prepped to tackle a repair.
posted by aimedwander at 9:20 AM on August 2, 2015