Co-worker drama over complaining
July 20, 2015 10:05 AM Subscribe
Navigating the post-friendship relationship with someone in a small work environment.
I'm a technical professional, 32 years old, in a small male-dominated office. Usually things are awesome there, zero internal drama, except for this...
We have a relatively new receptionist/admin assistant M, also 32, who started five months ago and is now permanent staff. She moved from *big city* to our *medium city* a year ago for her husband's work and is still getting used to living here. I moved here too about three years ago, and knowing what it's like to be new, I've invited her to some social gatherings with my friends to be friendly, and it went alright though we haven't subsequently socialized outside of work. At work, we typically took short walks to Starbucks during the day to get some exercise away from the desk, and we chat along the way. She's recently become pregnant, and has apparently been having a hard time of it, her discomfort leading her to begin complain liberally about anything and everything. I've been pregnant too and knew what she was going through, but wasn't appreciating that she's revealing herself to be a petty, negative, ignorant person.
We've also just hired an intern student (J, around 20) who is incredibly friendly and sociable, and has joined us on walks. She loves to talk and continue conversations. A few weeks ago, J let M talk for 20 minutes on M's 22 year old neighbour who recently quit her job to become a full-time model, how amazing that was but also bashing her for being an "old" model, nothing more than pretty now and how that will fade and fail her very soon. I found this pettiness hard to bear, but said nothing. J's also originally from *big city*, which M has eagerly jumped on as a topic to discuss a couple times now - all the things M misses from that city, all the ways *big city* is so much better in so many ways than *medium city*, why living in *medium city* sucks, how much more stuff in *medium city* costs, etc. etc. All I can think is, maybe you should just go back there if you hate it here so much.
A few weeks ago, on one of our walks I couldn't take her complaining anymore and told M to knock it off, stop going on and on about how *big city* is so much better than *medium city*, I like it here and there are lots of great things about living here. Her negativity is too much to take. J and I continued to talk and be friendly, J picked up on the next thread of conversation without dropping a beat.
Now M's been giving me the silent treatment, defriended me on Facebook and we only talked to each other briefly on specific work things since then. I don't think this is worth talking about with the office managers, as it's not actually specific to work and i think it will shed as much bad light on me as her, and I need to keep my good reputation intact. Nor do I think I care much about restoring the relationship to its former status, since her general demeanor's left me with a bad taste in my mouth. But it is a small office work environment, and I'm not sure how to navigate this going forward. I don't often have to deal with problems in work relationships, particularly with other women, and I've been thinking about this situation a lot. Usually I'd just walk away from being friends with someone like this, but here I'm stuck with her at work. Is it so hard to simply not be friends with another woman in a small office?
I'm a technical professional, 32 years old, in a small male-dominated office. Usually things are awesome there, zero internal drama, except for this...
We have a relatively new receptionist/admin assistant M, also 32, who started five months ago and is now permanent staff. She moved from *big city* to our *medium city* a year ago for her husband's work and is still getting used to living here. I moved here too about three years ago, and knowing what it's like to be new, I've invited her to some social gatherings with my friends to be friendly, and it went alright though we haven't subsequently socialized outside of work. At work, we typically took short walks to Starbucks during the day to get some exercise away from the desk, and we chat along the way. She's recently become pregnant, and has apparently been having a hard time of it, her discomfort leading her to begin complain liberally about anything and everything. I've been pregnant too and knew what she was going through, but wasn't appreciating that she's revealing herself to be a petty, negative, ignorant person.
We've also just hired an intern student (J, around 20) who is incredibly friendly and sociable, and has joined us on walks. She loves to talk and continue conversations. A few weeks ago, J let M talk for 20 minutes on M's 22 year old neighbour who recently quit her job to become a full-time model, how amazing that was but also bashing her for being an "old" model, nothing more than pretty now and how that will fade and fail her very soon. I found this pettiness hard to bear, but said nothing. J's also originally from *big city*, which M has eagerly jumped on as a topic to discuss a couple times now - all the things M misses from that city, all the ways *big city* is so much better in so many ways than *medium city*, why living in *medium city* sucks, how much more stuff in *medium city* costs, etc. etc. All I can think is, maybe you should just go back there if you hate it here so much.
A few weeks ago, on one of our walks I couldn't take her complaining anymore and told M to knock it off, stop going on and on about how *big city* is so much better than *medium city*, I like it here and there are lots of great things about living here. Her negativity is too much to take. J and I continued to talk and be friendly, J picked up on the next thread of conversation without dropping a beat.
Now M's been giving me the silent treatment, defriended me on Facebook and we only talked to each other briefly on specific work things since then. I don't think this is worth talking about with the office managers, as it's not actually specific to work and i think it will shed as much bad light on me as her, and I need to keep my good reputation intact. Nor do I think I care much about restoring the relationship to its former status, since her general demeanor's left me with a bad taste in my mouth. But it is a small office work environment, and I'm not sure how to navigate this going forward. I don't often have to deal with problems in work relationships, particularly with other women, and I've been thinking about this situation a lot. Usually I'd just walk away from being friends with someone like this, but here I'm stuck with her at work. Is it so hard to simply not be friends with another woman in a small office?
Be courteous and professional. Make sure that if it becomes a problem, she's the one making it a problem. Frankly, from what you've said I suspect that she's going to start behaving this way with anyone who draws a line and will annoy herself out of a job pretty quickly.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:15 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:15 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
What do you want it to be like? If you'd like things to be somewhat more civil, I think you're going to need to swing by her desk one day and ask if she wants a coffee, then whatever the answer is say hey, we haven't talked properly since the other day when I had a bit of a go. Sorry if I majorly offended you, but you know how it is about people bashing the city you know and love. Anyway lets grab lunch sometime.
It doesn't matter if you're really truly sorry, and it doesn't matter if you genuinely want to or intend to get lunch with her. The above will make it a lot harder for her to continue the silent treatment, create an easier life for you, and give you the moral high ground.
Alternatively, if you're quite happy going on as you are, then do nothing, be civil, and ignore it. It drives me UP THE WALL when people criticise my homeplace, it's like my siblings - sure, I get to bitch about them, but you don't!
posted by greenish at 10:16 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
It doesn't matter if you're really truly sorry, and it doesn't matter if you genuinely want to or intend to get lunch with her. The above will make it a lot harder for her to continue the silent treatment, create an easier life for you, and give you the moral high ground.
Alternatively, if you're quite happy going on as you are, then do nothing, be civil, and ignore it. It drives me UP THE WALL when people criticise my homeplace, it's like my siblings - sure, I get to bitch about them, but you don't!
posted by greenish at 10:16 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Now M's been giving me the silent treatment, defriended me on Facebook and we only talked to each other briefly on specific work things since then.
Jesus wept.
If I were you, I'd continue to be office-level friendly and cordial to her, the same as you'd do with any other coworker. Does she have weekend plans, has she tried the new Thai place in town yet, light, banal small talk. If she wants to pout about it, that's her choice. You don't have to be her friend.
posted by phunniemee at 10:16 AM on July 20, 2015 [18 favorites]
Jesus wept.
If I were you, I'd continue to be office-level friendly and cordial to her, the same as you'd do with any other coworker. Does she have weekend plans, has she tried the new Thai place in town yet, light, banal small talk. If she wants to pout about it, that's her choice. You don't have to be her friend.
posted by phunniemee at 10:16 AM on July 20, 2015 [18 favorites]
I wouldn't worry too much about it. My sister defriended me on Facebook over a tiff and a few months later added me back. These kinds of things are temporary, and honestly not worth the trouble of worrying about. As the others have said, be polite and friendly regarding work-related things and go about your own business.
posted by patheral at 10:21 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by patheral at 10:21 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Pretend you don't notice her hostility. Be work-friendly. Maybe subtly emphasize your status. Small-minded people are often quite status-conscious and that will make her inclined to want to re-friend you, fb and otherwise. But don't reopen anything other than work cordiality and courtesy, as she's just not someone you want in your life any more than necessary.
posted by theora55 at 10:28 AM on July 20, 2015
posted by theora55 at 10:28 AM on July 20, 2015
If I were smacked down by someone I thought of as a friend, even a work friend, for doing the same kind of venting I'd been doing for awhile (and that I thought of as part of our dynamic) I would not be giving them "the silent treatment" by not talking to them. I would simply be embarrassed, hurt and unsure of my standing in a way that made me not want to talk to them.
And the fact that you know she unfriended you means you went to look at her profile for some reason. If I thought someone was so annoyed by my complaining about missing my old city I'd also want to shelter my private thoughts from them by kicking them off my social media feed.
I'm not saying you did anything wrong - you didn't. But you did sort of smack her down in a way that I would interpret as a friend-breakup and she's acting accordingly. If you're talking briefly about work things, that's not the silent treatment. If she demures to small talk with you that's also not the silent treatment, she's just relegated you to work-mate-not-friend category.
Leave her alone, be polite, stop trying to make her engage in chit chat. You don't like what she has to say anyway.
posted by Saminal at 10:39 AM on July 20, 2015 [22 favorites]
And the fact that you know she unfriended you means you went to look at her profile for some reason. If I thought someone was so annoyed by my complaining about missing my old city I'd also want to shelter my private thoughts from them by kicking them off my social media feed.
I'm not saying you did anything wrong - you didn't. But you did sort of smack her down in a way that I would interpret as a friend-breakup and she's acting accordingly. If you're talking briefly about work things, that's not the silent treatment. If she demures to small talk with you that's also not the silent treatment, she's just relegated you to work-mate-not-friend category.
Leave her alone, be polite, stop trying to make her engage in chit chat. You don't like what she has to say anyway.
posted by Saminal at 10:39 AM on July 20, 2015 [22 favorites]
If she's still talking to you about work things and is just giving you the silent treatment on friend-type chatter, I honestly don't see what you're unhappy about. You don't like her friend-type chatter. She now doesn't like yours. Not everyone likes each other, and that's fine and normal. Just continue to be polite and professional and only interact with her about work things since you both now know you don't jive well together.
If you did want to keep her as a friend (really doesn't sound like you do), you should apologize for your outburst and ask politely that you guys just not discuss those topics. And for the future, try to keep in mind that it's better to mildly confront this type of negativity the moment it arises (easier said than done, I know) rather than letting them really entrench that conversational pattern thinking you're down with it while your annoyance builds into an eventual eruption.
posted by vegartanipla at 10:39 AM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you did want to keep her as a friend (really doesn't sound like you do), you should apologize for your outburst and ask politely that you guys just not discuss those topics. And for the future, try to keep in mind that it's better to mildly confront this type of negativity the moment it arises (easier said than done, I know) rather than letting them really entrench that conversational pattern thinking you're down with it while your annoyance builds into an eventual eruption.
posted by vegartanipla at 10:39 AM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is actually awesome because now you only have professional interactions with her moving forward. Say nothing. Do nothing. Ignore her unless it's work related. This is a good thing. Drama llamas like her are SO TOXIC at work and being distant from her is going to serve you well.
Is it so hard to simply not be friends with another woman in a small office?
It's not that hard, no. It can be personally frustrating or saddening sometimes but just keep reminding yourself that this woman is trouble, is not pleasant, and that the last thing you need is for her to be close with you because when she gets goofy with a boss or a superior you will know nothing about it, will be totally divorced from that workplace drama, and will not be involved in whatever it is in any way.
posted by sockermom at 10:45 AM on July 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is it so hard to simply not be friends with another woman in a small office?
It's not that hard, no. It can be personally frustrating or saddening sometimes but just keep reminding yourself that this woman is trouble, is not pleasant, and that the last thing you need is for her to be close with you because when she gets goofy with a boss or a superior you will know nothing about it, will be totally divorced from that workplace drama, and will not be involved in whatever it is in any way.
posted by sockermom at 10:45 AM on July 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Great advice up thread, but wanted to add another perspective: you listened to her complain many times on walks with just the two of you, then new girl comes along and you shut her up and let new girl take the floor. Ouch! That might make me feel quite self-protective in your presence. Like, wow, OP never really liked me but I was just one of the only women in the office and/or I was some kind of charity case but now I'm not needed. Feels like mean girls bs, a little.
I'm not saying this view is correct or that you are wrong to dislike this person, but it might help you to treat her retreat with kindness to see this as a possible narrative of events. Certainly your instincts are right not to bring this to the office manager is right.
posted by girlpublisher at 10:55 AM on July 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm not saying this view is correct or that you are wrong to dislike this person, but it might help you to treat her retreat with kindness to see this as a possible narrative of events. Certainly your instincts are right not to bring this to the office manager is right.
posted by girlpublisher at 10:55 AM on July 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't understand. You verbally dressed her down in front of a mutual colleague. Is she supposed to be the bigger person here, now that you have gone out of your way to put her in her place in front of someone you both work with?
You didn't handle yourself well. What does it matter if she hates Cleveland because she's from Los Angeles? She's new in town, pregnant and having a hard time adjusting. And maybe she's not someone you're going to get along with socially long term; that's fine. It wasn't your place to put her down at work because she has some opinions about non-related work things that you don't like. Better to have smiled, nodded, and then minimized your contact with her outside of work for a while.
You should either let it go and stop talking to her altogether (lame, but effective), or you could go apologize, say you're a little sensitive about your city - GO BROWNS! - and that you hope the two of you can at least remain cordial to one another at work even if you don't choose to be friends outside of work.
You can't let this go because you know you messed up. I can relate; it's hard to eat crow but you should if you really want to make things right. (And ask yourself if you'd have treated her this way if she weren't your subordinate. Food for thought.)
posted by TryTheTilapia at 10:58 AM on July 20, 2015 [51 favorites]
You didn't handle yourself well. What does it matter if she hates Cleveland because she's from Los Angeles? She's new in town, pregnant and having a hard time adjusting. And maybe she's not someone you're going to get along with socially long term; that's fine. It wasn't your place to put her down at work because she has some opinions about non-related work things that you don't like. Better to have smiled, nodded, and then minimized your contact with her outside of work for a while.
You should either let it go and stop talking to her altogether (lame, but effective), or you could go apologize, say you're a little sensitive about your city - GO BROWNS! - and that you hope the two of you can at least remain cordial to one another at work even if you don't choose to be friends outside of work.
You can't let this go because you know you messed up. I can relate; it's hard to eat crow but you should if you really want to make things right. (And ask yourself if you'd have treated her this way if she weren't your subordinate. Food for thought.)
posted by TryTheTilapia at 10:58 AM on July 20, 2015 [51 favorites]
Seconding TTT's comment.
Exactly what I wanted to write but you know, with the right words.
posted by SLC Mom at 11:04 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Exactly what I wanted to write but you know, with the right words.
posted by SLC Mom at 11:04 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
It sounds like she's homesick, and sick, and pregnant and far away from what she thinks of as "home," and I don't know what your place's maternity-leave policy is but she may also be worrying her job or financial security's at risk because of the pregnancy, and now someone higher up in the organization and with more seniority has smacked her down in front of someone else. I understand that she's also negative and whiny, but I think it's smart of her to be worried that you may say something negative about her to your bosses and so to limit the amount of time she spends with you.
I think the kindest thing to do would be to say something like, "Hey, I'm sorry for blowing up at you the other day. I know it's probably really hard to adjust to a new place and new job, especially while you're pregnant and not feeling well." And maybe see where the conversation goes (or doesn't go) from there. I think that apologizing basically gives her a heads-up that you're not going to try to get her fired.
posted by jaguar at 11:07 AM on July 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think the kindest thing to do would be to say something like, "Hey, I'm sorry for blowing up at you the other day. I know it's probably really hard to adjust to a new place and new job, especially while you're pregnant and not feeling well." And maybe see where the conversation goes (or doesn't go) from there. I think that apologizing basically gives her a heads-up that you're not going to try to get her fired.
posted by jaguar at 11:07 AM on July 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't see a problem. You should not have been going on walks or socializing with her, anyway.
In the future, be careful about hitching yourself to folks at work. Maintain open, friendly, and non-clique type relations with ALL of your co-workers. Don't hitch yourself to any one person or group.
Carry on.
posted by jbenben at 11:56 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
In the future, be careful about hitching yourself to folks at work. Maintain open, friendly, and non-clique type relations with ALL of your co-workers. Don't hitch yourself to any one person or group.
Carry on.
posted by jbenben at 11:56 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
What TryTheTilapia and jaguar said, with emphasis on the fact that you are her superior and you have encouraged the relationship up to this point. She may be jeopardizing her work future with the constant complaining and it might be a good idea to subtly discourage that. You don't owe this to her; it's not like she's in high school or anything but it seems like taking the high road and trying to help her out would be a really good thing.
posted by BibiRose at 11:57 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by BibiRose at 11:57 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Did I miss in the OP where it was indicated this was a subordinate? My office admin is very much not my subordinate so I don't think that's a safe assumption if it wasn't said.
In any case, telling someone to stop repeatedly making fun of your home is not at all out of line in my opinion, asker, and you've nothing to apologize for.
posted by ftm at 12:34 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
In any case, telling someone to stop repeatedly making fun of your home is not at all out of line in my opinion, asker, and you've nothing to apologize for.
posted by ftm at 12:34 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I can understand how constant complaining can be draining. Negativity is the workplace is no fun and makes the day less pleasant but…
I would definitely apologize. I think you mistakenly took this personally when you didn't need too. She wasn't saying anything negative about you, the person, lizbunny. She is complaining about a city. You are identifying with your city so much that when she said something negative about it, you believed she was criticizing you. This was not a personal attack. So what she doesn't like the city you happen to live in -- why should that bother you? She wasn't saying lizbunny sucks, she was saying city sucks. So what?
Sometimes complainers don't know they are emotionally draining (they don't have to emotionally drain you if you don't allow it to get under your skin) and it can be a habit that they are unconscious of. I think an apology is definitely in order. And some compassion. She's most likely very homesick. And know that her dissing the 22-year-old model is an expression of fear. Fear that she isn't pretty enough or some other thought that she has going on in her head that has nothing to do with you. People aren't perfect and all people are trying to belong the best they know how. Most likely, she wasn't trying to offend you but you became offended anyway because you put too much of yourself in what she was saying.
posted by Fairchild at 1:04 PM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I would definitely apologize. I think you mistakenly took this personally when you didn't need too. She wasn't saying anything negative about you, the person, lizbunny. She is complaining about a city. You are identifying with your city so much that when she said something negative about it, you believed she was criticizing you. This was not a personal attack. So what she doesn't like the city you happen to live in -- why should that bother you? She wasn't saying lizbunny sucks, she was saying city sucks. So what?
Sometimes complainers don't know they are emotionally draining (they don't have to emotionally drain you if you don't allow it to get under your skin) and it can be a habit that they are unconscious of. I think an apology is definitely in order. And some compassion. She's most likely very homesick. And know that her dissing the 22-year-old model is an expression of fear. Fear that she isn't pretty enough or some other thought that she has going on in her head that has nothing to do with you. People aren't perfect and all people are trying to belong the best they know how. Most likely, she wasn't trying to offend you but you became offended anyway because you put too much of yourself in what she was saying.
posted by Fairchild at 1:04 PM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Did you literally say the following:
told M to knock it off, stop going on and on about how *big city* is so much better than *medium city*, I like it here and there are lots of great things about living here. Her negativity is too much to take.
If so, that was out of line for a work conversation (yes, even if she started it.) It seems she had been getting under your skin (understandably!) for some time about various things and you kinda blew your top. Your reaction probably seemed extreme and out of the blue to her, as your interactions had been friendly up to then. If the above is what you said, you also told her what to do (stop talking about x) and ascribed an unflattering personal trait to her (negativity.) Nobody reacts well to that; I'm not sure how you think she should have reacted.
If you couldn't just smile and nod along to her nonsense (as so many of us have to do with obnoxious coworkers) and felt you had to speak up, then there are a lot more professional ways you could have changed the subject or asserted how much you like your city without it taking the form of this outburst/lecture/insult. Different rules govern our interactions at work than they do in our social lives, which is why it's tricky to mix the two.
we only talked to each other briefly on specific work things since then
This sounds just about ideal. Keep it professional; if you want anything beyond that you might want to apologize but otherwise, treat her like you would any other coworker.
Definitely don't bring this up the chain at work; it'll reflect way worse on you that you think. Basically, no matter how you explain it, they'll hear "I yelled at a pregnant woman and now I'm mad about facebook and I for some reason think someone else should deal with my petty personal problems now."
You have my sympathies, by the way; she sounds like no fun to talk to and swallowing your annoyance gets exhausting.
posted by kapers at 1:39 PM on July 20, 2015
told M to knock it off, stop going on and on about how *big city* is so much better than *medium city*, I like it here and there are lots of great things about living here. Her negativity is too much to take.
If so, that was out of line for a work conversation (yes, even if she started it.) It seems she had been getting under your skin (understandably!) for some time about various things and you kinda blew your top. Your reaction probably seemed extreme and out of the blue to her, as your interactions had been friendly up to then. If the above is what you said, you also told her what to do (stop talking about x) and ascribed an unflattering personal trait to her (negativity.) Nobody reacts well to that; I'm not sure how you think she should have reacted.
If you couldn't just smile and nod along to her nonsense (as so many of us have to do with obnoxious coworkers) and felt you had to speak up, then there are a lot more professional ways you could have changed the subject or asserted how much you like your city without it taking the form of this outburst/lecture/insult. Different rules govern our interactions at work than they do in our social lives, which is why it's tricky to mix the two.
we only talked to each other briefly on specific work things since then
This sounds just about ideal. Keep it professional; if you want anything beyond that you might want to apologize but otherwise, treat her like you would any other coworker.
Definitely don't bring this up the chain at work; it'll reflect way worse on you that you think. Basically, no matter how you explain it, they'll hear "I yelled at a pregnant woman and now I'm mad about facebook and I for some reason think someone else should deal with my petty personal problems now."
You have my sympathies, by the way; she sounds like no fun to talk to and swallowing your annoyance gets exhausting.
posted by kapers at 1:39 PM on July 20, 2015
I can't stand these kinds of complainers. Like, what are you supposed to do for her? Wave a magic wand and make your city more to her liking? Your reaction only seems out-of-the-blue for her because she's inconsiderate and didn't ever think about how her venting sounds to other people. The good news is: You're liberated! Rest assured, she went and "vented" about you to someone, so don't feel too bad for her. Just ignore her. She unfriended you on Facebook (snort), so it should be easy to stay uninvolved with her personal life.
Also, telling someone annoying to "knock it off" is not that same as yelling or screaming so when people tell you "yelled at a pregnant woman" or whatever, you can roll your eyes at that too.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 1:55 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, telling someone annoying to "knock it off" is not that same as yelling or screaming so when people tell you "yelled at a pregnant woman" or whatever, you can roll your eyes at that too.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 1:55 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone. I appreciate knowing it's ok to just keep things cool and professional from now on.
I will try to remember to be more professional in the future, and handle myself better in these situations when I'm irritated with someone at work for something non-work-related.
I don't know if I could have talked to her about her ranting without her taking it badly as personal criticism though. Feels like there wasn't really an easy way to handle that, which is why I let it get to the point where I couldn't bear it anymore.
posted by lizbunny at 2:10 PM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I will try to remember to be more professional in the future, and handle myself better in these situations when I'm irritated with someone at work for something non-work-related.
I don't know if I could have talked to her about her ranting without her taking it badly as personal criticism though. Feels like there wasn't really an easy way to handle that, which is why I let it get to the point where I couldn't bear it anymore.
posted by lizbunny at 2:10 PM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't know if I could have talked to her about her ranting without her taking it badly as personal criticism though. Feels like there wasn't really an easy way to handle that
I bet there was a way which, while it might not be worth it for this one, would be applicable in higher-stakes conversations too. Do you want suggestions?
posted by daisyace at 2:47 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I bet there was a way which, while it might not be worth it for this one, would be applicable in higher-stakes conversations too. Do you want suggestions?
posted by daisyace at 2:47 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Higher stakes I recognize better and therefore handle a lot better as well. But yeah, if there are ideas on how to politely bring it to a sensitive coworker's attention that her complaining is excessive, by all means share!
posted by lizbunny at 3:48 PM on July 20, 2015
posted by lizbunny at 3:48 PM on July 20, 2015
You just say in a slightly too-bright voice that doesn't invite contradiction, "Well, nowhere's perfect. I do love my home town."
Then: Subject change.
posted by flourpot at 4:35 PM on July 20, 2015
Then: Subject change.
posted by flourpot at 4:35 PM on July 20, 2015
Response by poster: I'm not trying to threadsit, but I do recall trying to subtly comment and redirect the conversation, and she steered it right back. She's been pretty aggressive in her ranting.
posted by lizbunny at 4:39 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lizbunny at 4:39 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
As for the negativity about the model: I usually hear people talking about that subject (how short a model's career is) as a way to criticize the shallowness and sexism of the modeling industry, not necessarily as being bitchy to the actual person who is modelling. She might be awkward about how she makes her points, but you could always just assume (with that as an example) to take the charitable view and kind of agree, "Yeah, it's really a short term career, incredible how 25 year olds are over the hill in the beauty industry!" Basically (if you really want suggestions) you just try to add a more positive and formal note, then change subject to the best of your ability, and realize the person isn't your best friend.
posted by flourpot at 4:43 PM on July 20, 2015
posted by flourpot at 4:43 PM on July 20, 2015
High-stakes or low, I find "I feel [simple emotion names here]... When you... Because..." very effective. Maybe you already know it and it just wouldn't work with this co-worker, but in case not, here's a step-by-step.
1. Notice that something bothers you and consciously decide to bring it up. Without that conscious decision, don't proceed with spontaneously expressing discontent at someone.
2. Assume she's a good person with good intentions. It's not that "her complaining is [objectively] excessive." It's that she's different from you. In your world, it's excessive. In hers, it's fine, maybe she'd be fine if others did the same, maybe it's how she bonds.
3. Choose a good time and place. Not in front of someone else, not when you're pissed off.
4. Go for your "I feel... When you... Because..." Here, maybe something like, "I feel irritated and defensive when you say something is better about *big city* is better than *medium city* because I live here and like it and I take it as an insult."
5. If you have a truthful reassuring reason you're bringing this up, add it. I.e., maybe not applicable in this case, but if it were: "I'm only mentioning this because I really like taking these walks with you, and the negative talk about *medium city* is really starting to get in the way."
6. Listen empathically.
posted by daisyace at 4:57 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
1. Notice that something bothers you and consciously decide to bring it up. Without that conscious decision, don't proceed with spontaneously expressing discontent at someone.
2. Assume she's a good person with good intentions. It's not that "her complaining is [objectively] excessive." It's that she's different from you. In your world, it's excessive. In hers, it's fine, maybe she'd be fine if others did the same, maybe it's how she bonds.
3. Choose a good time and place. Not in front of someone else, not when you're pissed off.
4. Go for your "I feel... When you... Because..." Here, maybe something like, "I feel irritated and defensive when you say something is better about *big city* is better than *medium city* because I live here and like it and I take it as an insult."
5. If you have a truthful reassuring reason you're bringing this up, add it. I.e., maybe not applicable in this case, but if it were: "I'm only mentioning this because I really like taking these walks with you, and the negative talk about *medium city* is really starting to get in the way."
6. Listen empathically.
posted by daisyace at 4:57 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
if there are ideas on how to politely bring it to a sensitive coworker's attention that her complaining is excessive
In this case, maybe something like "you sound homesick" or "it sounds like the move has been hard on you" or "when do you think you'll be able to get home to visit," something like that, might have been a kinder response.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:22 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
In this case, maybe something like "you sound homesick" or "it sounds like the move has been hard on you" or "when do you think you'll be able to get home to visit," something like that, might have been a kinder response.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:22 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you and your co-worker are at work - literally in the building in which you both work - and they are complaining about something to do with work, I think you are well within your rights to say something like, "I hear you. [X] can be really frustrating. Let's power through and get through to the end of it." or "You know, I don't think it's productive to speak about [X] like that. I'd rather just focus on getting the task done and having a good laugh at the bar after it's all said and done, wouldn't you?" And then change the subject or excuse yourself. This is a work situation, at work, regarding work, and it behooves you as someone who has to continue to work with this person to diplomatically deflect office gossip or negativity while still maintaining your cordial working relationship. This is bog standard in most work situations because people are what we are and there's no changing it, and stuff has to get done.
If you're away from work? And you're not talking about work-related stuff? Well, then. That's totally personal and you need to think about what you want personally from the situation before you speak, but really your response doesn't have to be any different. Be firm but courteous, deflect attention away, and then move on or excuse yourself. I know it can feel like you "can't" or the other person won't "let" you, but really? It's up to you enforce your boundaries. And if it's one of these exhausting things - and it sounds like this situation is - where the person is merely venting and not listening and going on and on and on - you still owe it to yourself to nod, smile, not feed into the narrative, and get out of there as quickly as possible.
In either situation, lecturing does little good and is not our place. Talking about the person is personal, and people are apt to take such things personally. And if you're not committed to a friendship and you don't have a level of trust with someone where you can mutually screw up and still understand you have each other's back, then lecturing somebody about their personality failings - in front of someone else - is just aggressive, kinda mean, and makes you come off as having difficulty maintaining your self-control.
Boiled down, it's not really anybody's place to lecture our co-workers and acquaintances. If you don't have a personal stake in the relationship beyond work friends or co-workers then you're really just preaching to them about how to be, and we really don't get to do that with other people and expect them to continue to trust us and treat us cordially when they've been embarrassed and put down.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 4:49 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you're away from work? And you're not talking about work-related stuff? Well, then. That's totally personal and you need to think about what you want personally from the situation before you speak, but really your response doesn't have to be any different. Be firm but courteous, deflect attention away, and then move on or excuse yourself. I know it can feel like you "can't" or the other person won't "let" you, but really? It's up to you enforce your boundaries. And if it's one of these exhausting things - and it sounds like this situation is - where the person is merely venting and not listening and going on and on and on - you still owe it to yourself to nod, smile, not feed into the narrative, and get out of there as quickly as possible.
In either situation, lecturing does little good and is not our place. Talking about the person is personal, and people are apt to take such things personally. And if you're not committed to a friendship and you don't have a level of trust with someone where you can mutually screw up and still understand you have each other's back, then lecturing somebody about their personality failings - in front of someone else - is just aggressive, kinda mean, and makes you come off as having difficulty maintaining your self-control.
Boiled down, it's not really anybody's place to lecture our co-workers and acquaintances. If you don't have a personal stake in the relationship beyond work friends or co-workers then you're really just preaching to them about how to be, and we really don't get to do that with other people and expect them to continue to trust us and treat us cordially when they've been embarrassed and put down.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 4:49 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
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It'll either blow over, or it won't, in which case being mature and calm will help you a great deal.
posted by Solomon at 10:14 AM on July 20, 2015 [14 favorites]