Should I tell my friend I'm mad at him?
July 19, 2015 11:42 AM Subscribe
One of my oldest friends (since we were teenagers, and we're middle-aged now) blew off an invitation I sent him and my feelings were really hurt. Should I call him on it or just let it pass? Wall of text inside.
My friend Daniel (not his real name) and I have been friends since we were young teenagers; we’re both in our 40s now. He’s had his share of difficulties over the years; he drew an awful number in the parent lottery (his parents are toxic mixture of sociopathic and neglectful), and he’s been through a slew of bad relationships and bad jobs. I consider us close friends; he’s spent a ton of time with my family; for years, he’s come to us for the Jewish High Holidays and last year he came to us for Thanksgiving when he had nowhere else to go. My grandparents adored him. You get the idea.
Another relevant bit of background: Daniel has another friend, whom I’ll call Kenny; I’m fond of Kenny but certainly would not describe him as a close friend.
Recently, my husband and I moved to a new neighborhood and Daniel expressed interest in coming out to see our new place and see the neighborhood. Kenny and I have exchanged friendly emails a few times; in one of those emails, Kenny said that he’d like to come out to the new neighborhood with Daniel and a third friend, Alison, to try some restaurants. Kenny and I agreed that we would try to make this happen.
A couple of weeks before July 4, I sent an email to Daniel and Kenny saying, “Hey, Mr. Sock and I are going to be around on July 4 and would like you to come out to Neighborhood. We could go to such-and-such restaurant [in which Kenny had expressed an interest] and show you around. I don’t have Alison’s email, but if you could let her know of the invitation, I'd appreciate it. So let me know if you want to come out.” Words to that effect. I got radio silence in response to this email.
So on July 3, I sent Daniel a text saying, and here I quote, “So, I’m guessing that’s a no on the coming out to Neighborhood, then?” He didn’t answer until the next day; his text said, and here I quote again, “That is the case. Thanks for the invite. Alison is away in CA with ailing parents. Kenny has other plans. But you and I should get together soon. Let’s make a plan, not necessarily in Neighborhood. Happy Fourth.” I was angry and didn’t respond to this at all.
We haven’t spoken since then. I had decided to just let this go, as Daniel is known for not being so great with any type of relationships, including friendships. But it’s been bothering me a lot for the last two weeks; I found myself getting indignant because I feel I've been a damn good friend to him over the years and deserve a bit better than to have an invitation completely ignored. (He has been a good friend to me too, of course; I don't meant to suggest he hasn't.) So I drafted an email to him that says, and here I quote once again:
“Hey Daniel--I thought for a while about whether I wanted to talk to you about this thing that's been bugging me, and I actually had decided to just let it go, but then it was bothering me a lot so I decided I'd better say something.
I was actually pretty hurt that you didn't respond to my invitation on July 4. If you weren't able to or didn't want to come out, that's totally cool, and I have no problem with that in principle at all. But it hurt my feelings a lot that you didn't answer in any way until I texted you and asked you directly what was up.
I don't know whether I said something to annoy you the last time we spoke or what, but if that's the case I hope we can talk about it rather than letting it fester.”
My husband (who, truth to tell, doesn’t care all that much for Daniel), thinks I shouldn’t bother, since this is just typical Daniel and it won’t get me anywhere unless my goal is to receive a huffy, defensive email justifying Daniel’s behavior. I see his point, but I’m always telling my friends that I hope that if I do something that annoys or upsets them, they’ll tell me instead so we can discuss it of letting it fester and damage the friendship. I have to admit I’d feel like an enormous hypocrite if I don’t take my own advice.
(A subsidiary point: I gleaned from Daniel's email that Kenny really didn't want to see me, for whatever reason. I'm sorry about that, and have no idea why it is, but Kenny is really more Daniel's friend than mine. So as I note, it's kind of a subsidiary point, although it does make me wonder if there's not something odd and unspoken going on here vis-a-vis Daniel and Kenny and myself that Daniel doesn't want to tell me.)
So I guess my two questions are: 1) should I send this email or just let it go, since it was a fairly minor transgression in the scheme of a 30-year friendship; and 2) is the content and tone of the email appropriate?
Thanks, everyone.
My friend Daniel (not his real name) and I have been friends since we were young teenagers; we’re both in our 40s now. He’s had his share of difficulties over the years; he drew an awful number in the parent lottery (his parents are toxic mixture of sociopathic and neglectful), and he’s been through a slew of bad relationships and bad jobs. I consider us close friends; he’s spent a ton of time with my family; for years, he’s come to us for the Jewish High Holidays and last year he came to us for Thanksgiving when he had nowhere else to go. My grandparents adored him. You get the idea.
Another relevant bit of background: Daniel has another friend, whom I’ll call Kenny; I’m fond of Kenny but certainly would not describe him as a close friend.
Recently, my husband and I moved to a new neighborhood and Daniel expressed interest in coming out to see our new place and see the neighborhood. Kenny and I have exchanged friendly emails a few times; in one of those emails, Kenny said that he’d like to come out to the new neighborhood with Daniel and a third friend, Alison, to try some restaurants. Kenny and I agreed that we would try to make this happen.
A couple of weeks before July 4, I sent an email to Daniel and Kenny saying, “Hey, Mr. Sock and I are going to be around on July 4 and would like you to come out to Neighborhood. We could go to such-and-such restaurant [in which Kenny had expressed an interest] and show you around. I don’t have Alison’s email, but if you could let her know of the invitation, I'd appreciate it. So let me know if you want to come out.” Words to that effect. I got radio silence in response to this email.
So on July 3, I sent Daniel a text saying, and here I quote, “So, I’m guessing that’s a no on the coming out to Neighborhood, then?” He didn’t answer until the next day; his text said, and here I quote again, “That is the case. Thanks for the invite. Alison is away in CA with ailing parents. Kenny has other plans. But you and I should get together soon. Let’s make a plan, not necessarily in Neighborhood. Happy Fourth.” I was angry and didn’t respond to this at all.
We haven’t spoken since then. I had decided to just let this go, as Daniel is known for not being so great with any type of relationships, including friendships. But it’s been bothering me a lot for the last two weeks; I found myself getting indignant because I feel I've been a damn good friend to him over the years and deserve a bit better than to have an invitation completely ignored. (He has been a good friend to me too, of course; I don't meant to suggest he hasn't.) So I drafted an email to him that says, and here I quote once again:
“Hey Daniel--I thought for a while about whether I wanted to talk to you about this thing that's been bugging me, and I actually had decided to just let it go, but then it was bothering me a lot so I decided I'd better say something.
I was actually pretty hurt that you didn't respond to my invitation on July 4. If you weren't able to or didn't want to come out, that's totally cool, and I have no problem with that in principle at all. But it hurt my feelings a lot that you didn't answer in any way until I texted you and asked you directly what was up.
I don't know whether I said something to annoy you the last time we spoke or what, but if that's the case I hope we can talk about it rather than letting it fester.”
My husband (who, truth to tell, doesn’t care all that much for Daniel), thinks I shouldn’t bother, since this is just typical Daniel and it won’t get me anywhere unless my goal is to receive a huffy, defensive email justifying Daniel’s behavior. I see his point, but I’m always telling my friends that I hope that if I do something that annoys or upsets them, they’ll tell me instead so we can discuss it of letting it fester and damage the friendship. I have to admit I’d feel like an enormous hypocrite if I don’t take my own advice.
(A subsidiary point: I gleaned from Daniel's email that Kenny really didn't want to see me, for whatever reason. I'm sorry about that, and have no idea why it is, but Kenny is really more Daniel's friend than mine. So as I note, it's kind of a subsidiary point, although it does make me wonder if there's not something odd and unspoken going on here vis-a-vis Daniel and Kenny and myself that Daniel doesn't want to tell me.)
So I guess my two questions are: 1) should I send this email or just let it go, since it was a fairly minor transgression in the scheme of a 30-year friendship; and 2) is the content and tone of the email appropriate?
Thanks, everyone.
Subsidiary answer, but:
"A subsidiary point: I gleaned from Daniel's email that Kenny really didn't want to see me, for whatever reason."
Unless there's something you're not telling us, there's nothing in any of the communication you've presented that warrants this conclusion. I agree with arnicae on the Daniel leg.
posted by animalrainbow at 11:52 AM on July 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
"A subsidiary point: I gleaned from Daniel's email that Kenny really didn't want to see me, for whatever reason."
Unless there's something you're not telling us, there's nothing in any of the communication you've presented that warrants this conclusion. I agree with arnicae on the Daniel leg.
posted by animalrainbow at 11:52 AM on July 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
Also I gleaned from Daniel's email that Kenny really didn't want to see me
Do you mean his text? In which he said Kenny had other plans? You're reading a LOT into this, just because someone had plans several weeks in advance for the 4th of July doesn't mean he doesn't want to see you.
posted by arnicae at 11:52 AM on July 19, 2015 [21 favorites]
Do you mean his text? In which he said Kenny had other plans? You're reading a LOT into this, just because someone had plans several weeks in advance for the 4th of July doesn't mean he doesn't want to see you.
posted by arnicae at 11:52 AM on July 19, 2015 [21 favorites]
So on July 3, I sent Daniel a text saying, and here I quote, “So, I’m guessing that’s a no on the coming out to Neighborhood, then?” He didn’t answer until the next day; his text said, and here I quote again, “That is the case. Thanks for the invite. Alison is away in CA with ailing parents. Kenny has other plans. But you and I should get together soon. Let’s make a plan, not necessarily in Neighborhood. Happy Fourth.” I was angry and didn’t respond to this at all.
You were angry? This made you angry? You extended a totally casual invitation. We can tell it was casual because you heard back from nobody and yet made no follow up about plans for a major holiday weekend until the day before. Well before that point, due to the lack of uptake, it should have been crystal clear that this was not going to come together. Which is fine, but I don't think you get to be angry about this.
I gleaned from Daniel's email that Kenny really didn't want to see me, for whatever reason.
What? The only thing you can glean from this is that Kenny had other plans.
I don't know whether I said something to annoy you the last time we spoke or what, but if that's the case I hope we can talk about it rather than letting it fester
This doesn't seem like an email response that is at all reflective of the chain of events except in terms of the unfounded emotions you're projecting on them.
You really, really need to let this go.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:54 AM on July 19, 2015 [43 favorites]
You were angry? This made you angry? You extended a totally casual invitation. We can tell it was casual because you heard back from nobody and yet made no follow up about plans for a major holiday weekend until the day before. Well before that point, due to the lack of uptake, it should have been crystal clear that this was not going to come together. Which is fine, but I don't think you get to be angry about this.
I gleaned from Daniel's email that Kenny really didn't want to see me, for whatever reason.
What? The only thing you can glean from this is that Kenny had other plans.
I don't know whether I said something to annoy you the last time we spoke or what, but if that's the case I hope we can talk about it rather than letting it fester
This doesn't seem like an email response that is at all reflective of the chain of events except in terms of the unfounded emotions you're projecting on them.
You really, really need to let this go.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:54 AM on July 19, 2015 [43 favorites]
When people do things like this to me, I stop planning events with them that require an ahead-of-time commitment from them to be successful. I might ask them to do something spontaneous, and I might invite them to a group outing where lots of people are invited and my organizing / planning is not wasted if they flake.
However, you could have followed up with him again within a few days of your initial invite. He probably did what I often do: read a text or invite, think "Oh that's interesting, I should check and see if I can do that," then get distracted by work / TV / youtube and completely forget. It's probably not personal in any way at all.
posted by bunderful at 11:59 AM on July 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
However, you could have followed up with him again within a few days of your initial invite. He probably did what I often do: read a text or invite, think "Oh that's interesting, I should check and see if I can do that," then get distracted by work / TV / youtube and completely forget. It's probably not personal in any way at all.
posted by bunderful at 11:59 AM on July 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Obviously people differ in their expectations and communication styles, but I think you are blowing this way out of proportion.
You sent a group invitation to your friend and then got miffed when he didn't respond. Think about it: you put him in the position of coordinating the schedules of two other people (over a holiday), and then didn't bother to check in with him. Suppose one of them didn't get back to him, and then it slipped his mind. I don't see this as something worth getting so upset about.
Just based on what you wrote, I think you are out of line. If you want to have some big relationship talk, fine. But I don't think he has done anything to merit your anger here.
posted by girl flaneur at 11:59 AM on July 19, 2015 [19 favorites]
You sent a group invitation to your friend and then got miffed when he didn't respond. Think about it: you put him in the position of coordinating the schedules of two other people (over a holiday), and then didn't bother to check in with him. Suppose one of them didn't get back to him, and then it slipped his mind. I don't see this as something worth getting so upset about.
Just based on what you wrote, I think you are out of line. If you want to have some big relationship talk, fine. But I don't think he has done anything to merit your anger here.
posted by girl flaneur at 11:59 AM on July 19, 2015 [19 favorites]
Alison is away in CA with ailing parents.
I'd let this go, because unless you know better, out of state inlaws/parents who are ill really make life logistically complicated, regardless of emotional difficulties that may or may not be in play, depending on the particulars of the famil(ies) involved.
posted by cobaltnine at 12:00 PM on July 19, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'd let this go, because unless you know better, out of state inlaws/parents who are ill really make life logistically complicated, regardless of emotional difficulties that may or may not be in play, depending on the particulars of the famil(ies) involved.
posted by cobaltnine at 12:00 PM on July 19, 2015 [10 favorites]
Maybe he was put off by the assumption that you would travel to your hood and spend a big holiday with him? As in, it wasn't 'I want to spend the fourth with you, have you got plans yet?', it was 'here are plans, yes/no?' It doesn't give him much space to shape his experience for the holiday. Maybe all that was stopping him was a vague sense that he would have preferred to do something else. But I think the invite was so concrete that he didnt have the option of saying anything but yes or no, and a no was difficult to say without a strong reason, so he was putting it off. I think if you plop plans I someone's lap you don't necessarily have the right to an immediate yes or no -- people's plans evolve with their mood. And it sounds like you didnt have his buy-in before you mapped out the plans, which means you can't really be mad at him for not taking ownership of them.
posted by PercussivePaul at 12:04 PM on July 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by PercussivePaul at 12:04 PM on July 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
You invited them to a casual hang out thing on one of the few days of the year besides Christmas and Thanksgiving that people usually have major plans. You shouldn't have been at all surprised that they couldn't make it. Not responding to your invite was mildly rude, but when you didn't hear back from them that pretty clearly WAS the answer. I definitely wouldn't make a big deal out of this. Plan another time to hang out and forget this happened.
posted by MsMolly at 12:07 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 12:07 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd guess that the issue here is between Daniel and Kenny.
Either that their friendship has cooled, or that Daniel is a little possessive about you and doesn't want to share or compete with Kenny for your friendship.
posted by jamjam at 12:11 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Either that their friendship has cooled, or that Daniel is a little possessive about you and doesn't want to share or compete with Kenny for your friendship.
posted by jamjam at 12:11 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
If written on AskMe before that non-responses to complex queries via email are fairly common for reasons, even for people who are pretty good communicators and generally pretty on top of their email.
Add to that the possibility of someone who is a bit flakey in responding and maybe not on email very regularly and non-response to a complex query is about what I would expect.
If you want/need a response in such a situation, you pretty much need to plan to follow up with a phone call or some such. Email isn't a reliable two-way communication mechanism and you have to modulate your angry or other emotional response to non-answer against that basic fact.
posted by flug at 12:45 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Add to that the possibility of someone who is a bit flakey in responding and maybe not on email very regularly and non-response to a complex query is about what I would expect.
If you want/need a response in such a situation, you pretty much need to plan to follow up with a phone call or some such. Email isn't a reliable two-way communication mechanism and you have to modulate your angry or other emotional response to non-answer against that basic fact.
posted by flug at 12:45 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree that this is nothing to get bent out of shape about - but it sounds like there are other things that have been annoying you about Daniel that are coming to the surface here. This is typical in a long friendship, but this is probably not the hill for your friendship to die on. It would have been nice for him to have responded earlier, but it's not an unforgivable offense for him to have not.
If you do want to have him come hang out in your new neighborhood, I'd just invite him next time, and then leave it open to him if he wants to invite Kenny or Allison. Inviting just him, on a non-holiday weekend, will make the whole thing less complicated.
posted by lunasol at 1:07 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you do want to have him come hang out in your new neighborhood, I'd just invite him next time, and then leave it open to him if he wants to invite Kenny or Allison. Inviting just him, on a non-holiday weekend, will make the whole thing less complicated.
posted by lunasol at 1:07 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Agree with DarlingBri.... I don't see what there is to be angry about.
posted by pearlybob at 1:15 PM on July 19, 2015
posted by pearlybob at 1:15 PM on July 19, 2015
I find that some of my friends are hardcore planners. They don't do anything unless it's confirmed and on the calendar. These folks tend to have a wide social circle with lots of people in them that aren't connected at all, or very loosely. Then I have my "go with the flow" friends. They are the ones I make tentative plans with, or just a standing thing where we get together once every week or two as a matter of course. These are either my close friends, or people who themselves have a small and close network of friends, or folks in a network that I'm closely attached to, like work or a regular hobby.
Maybe this has rankled you a bit because your close friend has approached this a bit more like in situation A, where if the event did not get on the calendar, it doesn't really come together, and this is par for the course in not terribly close relationships. However, I think this is more about Kenny and Alison being involved than your friend disrespecting your closeness.
I jump from socializing with group a types and group b types, and if I'm making plans with a group b person and group a people at the same time, I tend to use group a rules... which would say a non response is a simple "was too busy to really think this through until it was too late. Next time" -- It may have taken some time for your friend to organize/hear back from Kenny and Alison and he may have been busy as well. I don't think it's personal at all and I think your friend deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Are you anxious that you won't be able to plan as well with your friend that you've moved? Or that your friendship is threatened somehow? I'd examine that and talk to him about that instead, once you've figured it out.
posted by pazazygeek at 1:58 PM on July 19, 2015
Maybe this has rankled you a bit because your close friend has approached this a bit more like in situation A, where if the event did not get on the calendar, it doesn't really come together, and this is par for the course in not terribly close relationships. However, I think this is more about Kenny and Alison being involved than your friend disrespecting your closeness.
I jump from socializing with group a types and group b types, and if I'm making plans with a group b person and group a people at the same time, I tend to use group a rules... which would say a non response is a simple "was too busy to really think this through until it was too late. Next time" -- It may have taken some time for your friend to organize/hear back from Kenny and Alison and he may have been busy as well. I don't think it's personal at all and I think your friend deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Are you anxious that you won't be able to plan as well with your friend that you've moved? Or that your friendship is threatened somehow? I'd examine that and talk to him about that instead, once you've figured it out.
posted by pazazygeek at 1:58 PM on July 19, 2015
Let it go. His response was polite enough. Flaky friends are just part of life, and with a flaky type having a "big relationship talk" almost always backfires. The solution is to lower your expectations or stop inviting him places and dial back the friendship, as it would be with any flaky friend.
posted by quincunx at 2:21 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by quincunx at 2:21 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Let it go. Who of us hasn't gotten an email expecting to reply, then completely forgetting about it. You weren't stood up and when you did follow up, you got a reply declining your invitation which people are perfectly free to do. His wife is dealing with an ailing relative and that is enough to throw people's lives into chaos.
Maybe you get together one day, maybe you don't. I just don't think this requires a "come to Jesus" email because, unless I'm missing something, there really wasn't anything there that would indicate that he intended to hurt you.
posted by inturnaround at 3:08 PM on July 19, 2015
Maybe you get together one day, maybe you don't. I just don't think this requires a "come to Jesus" email because, unless I'm missing something, there really wasn't anything there that would indicate that he intended to hurt you.
posted by inturnaround at 3:08 PM on July 19, 2015
Next time you see him, bring up the 4th of July thing. Ask if next time, he would just respond with a "no" if he's not going to come. Or even "I don't know."
It's okay to contact someone again after 2 full days of not hearing yes or no -- do that if you think the invite has slipped someone's mind.
Please don't try to read his mind about Kenny wanting/not wanting to get together with the two of you...or about anything.
posted by wryly at 4:00 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's okay to contact someone again after 2 full days of not hearing yes or no -- do that if you think the invite has slipped someone's mind.
Please don't try to read his mind about Kenny wanting/not wanting to get together with the two of you...or about anything.
posted by wryly at 4:00 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
If I was going to overanalyze this to death, I would assume that Kenny might not like you and Daniel might not like your husband. Therefore he said let's meet up again (alone) at a later date. (People sometimes delay responding because they don't know what to say). That would be my interpretation. Holidays are always loaded events and it seems there's some drama involved. Just re-extend a two person coffee invitation for later on and maybe v gently bring it up...if you want. Or just have fun together catching up.
posted by bquarters at 6:42 PM on July 19, 2015
posted by bquarters at 6:42 PM on July 19, 2015
I'm going the other way here. You invited him to a specific event - not an open house, but a specific invitation for the holiday. His choice to not respond was rude because it held you up from making other holiday plans. You can make a lot of excuses for it, but it was rude. It's just not that hard to hit reply on email.
Personally I'd let it drop, but I also wouldn't invite him again. The next invite comes from him.
posted by 26.2 at 7:17 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Personally I'd let it drop, but I also wouldn't invite him again. The next invite comes from him.
posted by 26.2 at 7:17 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are a million reasons Daniel might have flubbed on not responding to your email in a timely fashion, and very few of them reflect his overall feelings about you as a friend. Maybe he was waiting to respond to hear back from one of the other parties if they were free and they never got back to him. Maybe he started composing an email and never clicked send. Maybe it got buried under a pile of super-urgent work emails. It's not you, it's life.
Do not send your email. Daniel's casual non-response to a casual invitation is is not a terrible friendship-ending transgression, but your dramz email might well be.
posted by Andrhia at 7:46 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Do not send your email. Daniel's casual non-response to a casual invitation is is not a terrible friendship-ending transgression, but your dramz email might well be.
posted by Andrhia at 7:46 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, OP. You mean so well, but aren't you tired of doing all the work here and getting nothing back from Daniel in return? Because the truth is, unless we're some saintly martyrs of old, we give in order to get. And it sucks to keep trying to stay close with a troubled-ish person like Daniel who neglects social capital (how do I know this? "last year he came to us for Thanksgiving when he had nowhere else to go" is one tell) and who never reciprocates. Pay attention to his ACTIONS only and stop listening to his words. 26.2 here is totally right that you should let this drop, but do not invite him again-- the next invite seriously needs to come from him or not at all. People make time for the people who are important to them. You allowing the space for Daniel to occasionally reciprocate, OR NOT, for ALL the many things you and your family have done for him over the years will make you feel less indignant and angry. Also, think about what's the primary emotion behind your anger here? Sadness? Loneliness? Feeling invisible? Get in touch with that feeling.
Can't you see that your expectations for Daniel are just WAY too high? (And I say this as a super organized, communicative, annoying, non-ball-dropper Type-A person myself who has had to deal with my own share of flaky, non-reciprocating "friends" who I probably irritate to no end with my high expectations.) Bottom line: Daniel is not a high quality friend to you at all. What you do have is major history together: he has value in your life as someone who has known you and your family since you were teens, so I'm not saying get rid of the guy-- just seriously have NO expectations of him. Make it so your future Daniel-inclusive plans don't get impacted if he or one of his associates flakes on you - basically plan for him to flake and then watch him take zero responsibility for his part in it. You've got to be ok with that if you want to engage with Daniel.
"My husband (who, truth to tell, doesn’t care all that much for Daniel), thinks I shouldn’t bother, since this is just typical Daniel and it won’t get me anywhere unless my goal is to receive a huffy, defensive email justifying Daniel’s behavior. I see his point, but.."
Your husband is right, both about you needing to spend a lot less effort on trying to include Daniel, and about the problem with anyone using email (or for that matter, texting or social media, etc) for working on issues. Whenever you need to have a real conversation and you're feeling big emotions, you've got to pick up the phone or meet in person. In fact, stop emailing Daniel altogether-- always make your plans with him over the phone and listen for the subtle wishy washy hesitation in his voice and downgrade your expectations accordingly.
Now on to July 4th: "Kenny and I agreed that we would try to make this happen." Sounds like Kenny, who you know is NOT your friend, is actually the primary one you made these plans with. This reads like you actually had zero initial buy-in from Daniel, but you sort of assumed it because of the friendship between Daniel-Kenny-Alison? Nope.
So you emailed an invitation to 2 of the 3 people (again: for your own sanity, please stop mass emailing with this crew, and CALL them individually on the phone and if you don't even have their telephone number then stop right there). "A couple of weeks before July 4, I sent an email to Daniel and Kenny saying, “Hey, Mr. Sock and I are going to be around on July 4 and would like you to come out to Neighborhood... So let me know if you want to come out.” This reads like you asked for an Acceptances Only R.S.V.P., which you got when nobody responded because none of them were coming.
"[Daniel's] text said, and here I quote again, “...Thanks for the invite... But you and I should get together soon. Let’s make a plan, not necessarily in Neighborhood. Happy Fourth.”" Translation: Kenny does not want to, and Alison can't spend time becoming closer friends with you right now. I don't want to commute out to your new neighborhood.
This is something flaky people say all the time. Note the lack of specifics about date, and time? He likes you, but he never intends to actually follow through on these plans with you. Feel free to test my theory by waiting for him to "make a plan" with you. I think you'll be waiting quite a while.
You buried the lede here: "...Daniel is known for not being so great with any type of relationships, including friendships.... I found myself getting indignant because I feel I've been a damn good friend to him over the years and deserve a bit better than to have an invitation completely ignored. (He has been a good friend to me too, of course; I don't meant to suggest he hasn't.)" See how your first sentence and your last sentence in this paragraph are at complete odds here? You sound conflicted and honestly a bit in denial about what Daniel is really capable of bringing to a friendship. You deserve better. I hate to see efforts wasted -- get out there and make some new friends who are more like Current You instead of Teenage You. And please believe your husband if he ever again tells you somebody is not a great friend.
posted by hush at 5:38 AM on July 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Can't you see that your expectations for Daniel are just WAY too high? (And I say this as a super organized, communicative, annoying, non-ball-dropper Type-A person myself who has had to deal with my own share of flaky, non-reciprocating "friends" who I probably irritate to no end with my high expectations.) Bottom line: Daniel is not a high quality friend to you at all. What you do have is major history together: he has value in your life as someone who has known you and your family since you were teens, so I'm not saying get rid of the guy-- just seriously have NO expectations of him. Make it so your future Daniel-inclusive plans don't get impacted if he or one of his associates flakes on you - basically plan for him to flake and then watch him take zero responsibility for his part in it. You've got to be ok with that if you want to engage with Daniel.
"My husband (who, truth to tell, doesn’t care all that much for Daniel), thinks I shouldn’t bother, since this is just typical Daniel and it won’t get me anywhere unless my goal is to receive a huffy, defensive email justifying Daniel’s behavior. I see his point, but.."
Your husband is right, both about you needing to spend a lot less effort on trying to include Daniel, and about the problem with anyone using email (or for that matter, texting or social media, etc) for working on issues. Whenever you need to have a real conversation and you're feeling big emotions, you've got to pick up the phone or meet in person. In fact, stop emailing Daniel altogether-- always make your plans with him over the phone and listen for the subtle wishy washy hesitation in his voice and downgrade your expectations accordingly.
Now on to July 4th: "Kenny and I agreed that we would try to make this happen." Sounds like Kenny, who you know is NOT your friend, is actually the primary one you made these plans with. This reads like you actually had zero initial buy-in from Daniel, but you sort of assumed it because of the friendship between Daniel-Kenny-Alison? Nope.
So you emailed an invitation to 2 of the 3 people (again: for your own sanity, please stop mass emailing with this crew, and CALL them individually on the phone and if you don't even have their telephone number then stop right there). "A couple of weeks before July 4, I sent an email to Daniel and Kenny saying, “Hey, Mr. Sock and I are going to be around on July 4 and would like you to come out to Neighborhood... So let me know if you want to come out.” This reads like you asked for an Acceptances Only R.S.V.P., which you got when nobody responded because none of them were coming.
"[Daniel's] text said, and here I quote again, “...Thanks for the invite... But you and I should get together soon. Let’s make a plan, not necessarily in Neighborhood. Happy Fourth.”" Translation: Kenny does not want to, and Alison can't spend time becoming closer friends with you right now. I don't want to commute out to your new neighborhood.
This is something flaky people say all the time. Note the lack of specifics about date, and time? He likes you, but he never intends to actually follow through on these plans with you. Feel free to test my theory by waiting for him to "make a plan" with you. I think you'll be waiting quite a while.
You buried the lede here: "...Daniel is known for not being so great with any type of relationships, including friendships.... I found myself getting indignant because I feel I've been a damn good friend to him over the years and deserve a bit better than to have an invitation completely ignored. (He has been a good friend to me too, of course; I don't meant to suggest he hasn't.)" See how your first sentence and your last sentence in this paragraph are at complete odds here? You sound conflicted and honestly a bit in denial about what Daniel is really capable of bringing to a friendship. You deserve better. I hate to see efforts wasted -- get out there and make some new friends who are more like Current You instead of Teenage You. And please believe your husband if he ever again tells you somebody is not a great friend.
posted by hush at 5:38 AM on July 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Without dissecting the politics too much, I can say this; My best and only real friend blew off my wedding (which he knew about almost a year in advance, when I asked him to be my best man). I was furious and am still hurt about it but I never said anything and I do not regret the decision in the least. Let this one slide, there will be other dinners.
posted by deadwater at 6:43 AM on July 20, 2015
posted by deadwater at 6:43 AM on July 20, 2015
I read your initial email as more of a "It would be fun if you can come, let me know if it works" sort of deal. While it's nice to get an RSVP to these sorts of things, I don't think it's required.
I will also say that despite my best efforts, I OFTEN fall behind on emails despite having no issues/conflicts with the email senders.
Next time, call to make the invitation and request a clear yes or no as opposed to a vague "Here's a thing, maybe you can come?"
And then I'd let it go...this sounds like a very minor transgression.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:48 PM on July 20, 2015
I will also say that despite my best efforts, I OFTEN fall behind on emails despite having no issues/conflicts with the email senders.
Next time, call to make the invitation and request a clear yes or no as opposed to a vague "Here's a thing, maybe you can come?"
And then I'd let it go...this sounds like a very minor transgression.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:48 PM on July 20, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
1) Don't send the email 2) If you must say something about this, preferably say it in person and say something like "Hey, what is the best way to plan events with you in the future? I feel like you left me hanging with the Fourth of July Neighborhood Restaurant invite." But really, just drop it.
posted by arnicae at 11:50 AM on July 19, 2015 [18 favorites]