Various 6-day-old baby questions
July 5, 2015 4:48 PM Subscribe
Six days in with my second lovely baby, we're having a bunch of new-to-us challenges. Advice desperately sought.
I had a repeat c section 6 days ago. I'm breastfeeding again. This little bundle of love is giving us a few challenges that are more pronounced this time and I'm struggling to resolve them.
Thing #1. She really is only willing to sleep in arms. My older daughter was willing to sleep in her crib at night. I'm afraid to co sleep. In desperation we've been doing it a little bit but last night I woke up and the top sheet was in her face. And the only way she falls asleep co sleeping is if I maneuver so I can nurse her from above so she falls asleep on her back and doesn't have to be moved or if we use a pacifier. Hard to do six days post op. I think she'd sleep in her crib if we gave her the pacifier but I think we're already seeing some nipple confusion with the pacifier which we are using only when desperate. We also have a co sleeping thingie that goes in bed between us but our bed is too small for the three of us to really fit and so we're quite uncomfortable when we use it and she doesn't really like it either and I can't do the trick where I hover over her and nurse her to sleep in it. It's a snuggle me. We could take turns holding her but that seems untenable. Co sleeping is untenable for us in the long term. But right now I'm getting 2-4 hours of sleep at night and it's getting to me. She'll sleep 30-45 minutes on her own unless I nurse her to sleep on her back in place. I obviously can't do that in the crib. She won't accept her arms swaddled so she flails when she's alone. But if we swaddle her arms in the first thing she does is work her arms free and she's distressed until that happens.
Thing #2. Breastfeeding is extremely painful this time. I feel like I'm just about done with the Percocet and Motrin for the c section but I'm dreading giving them up because of the breastfeeding pain. She is getting plenty of milk. I have seen several lactation consultants to work on latch. But even with a good latch I'm in a lot of pain. I see three problems. First, her suction is extremely powerful. Wow. It is like the highest setting on my hospital grade pump. Second, my nipples get hard as she's about to latch and it takes like ten attempted latches for them to relax and soften. She obviously can't latch until my nipple relaxes. Each latch attempt is piercingly painful so it's hard for me to relax. And lastly, although she can do a big wide latch, she seems to prefer this pursed lips latch just on my nipple. This is where I think there may be pacifier related nipple confusion. Obviously this is excruciating. When I capitalize on a wide mouth and put my nipple in her mouth she often pulls off. We battle it out until she accepts a wide mouthed latch. Even then i sometimes have piercing pain from my areola to my shoulder blades. It's regularly worse on my right side which again this time has greater supply and is fuller/harder.
Things that help: prepping my breast by pushing milk from the top of my breast down. Burping her after a feeding and putting her back on the same breast for round 2. That round is usually less painful. Lanolin and those Lansinoh pads. But then I have to wash the lanolin off before feeding her and I think that much washing aggravates my breasts. She has tons of trouble latching if I don't wipe them off.
Any tips? We had different challenges with her big sister for the most part.
I had a repeat c section 6 days ago. I'm breastfeeding again. This little bundle of love is giving us a few challenges that are more pronounced this time and I'm struggling to resolve them.
Thing #1. She really is only willing to sleep in arms. My older daughter was willing to sleep in her crib at night. I'm afraid to co sleep. In desperation we've been doing it a little bit but last night I woke up and the top sheet was in her face. And the only way she falls asleep co sleeping is if I maneuver so I can nurse her from above so she falls asleep on her back and doesn't have to be moved or if we use a pacifier. Hard to do six days post op. I think she'd sleep in her crib if we gave her the pacifier but I think we're already seeing some nipple confusion with the pacifier which we are using only when desperate. We also have a co sleeping thingie that goes in bed between us but our bed is too small for the three of us to really fit and so we're quite uncomfortable when we use it and she doesn't really like it either and I can't do the trick where I hover over her and nurse her to sleep in it. It's a snuggle me. We could take turns holding her but that seems untenable. Co sleeping is untenable for us in the long term. But right now I'm getting 2-4 hours of sleep at night and it's getting to me. She'll sleep 30-45 minutes on her own unless I nurse her to sleep on her back in place. I obviously can't do that in the crib. She won't accept her arms swaddled so she flails when she's alone. But if we swaddle her arms in the first thing she does is work her arms free and she's distressed until that happens.
Thing #2. Breastfeeding is extremely painful this time. I feel like I'm just about done with the Percocet and Motrin for the c section but I'm dreading giving them up because of the breastfeeding pain. She is getting plenty of milk. I have seen several lactation consultants to work on latch. But even with a good latch I'm in a lot of pain. I see three problems. First, her suction is extremely powerful. Wow. It is like the highest setting on my hospital grade pump. Second, my nipples get hard as she's about to latch and it takes like ten attempted latches for them to relax and soften. She obviously can't latch until my nipple relaxes. Each latch attempt is piercingly painful so it's hard for me to relax. And lastly, although she can do a big wide latch, she seems to prefer this pursed lips latch just on my nipple. This is where I think there may be pacifier related nipple confusion. Obviously this is excruciating. When I capitalize on a wide mouth and put my nipple in her mouth she often pulls off. We battle it out until she accepts a wide mouthed latch. Even then i sometimes have piercing pain from my areola to my shoulder blades. It's regularly worse on my right side which again this time has greater supply and is fuller/harder.
Things that help: prepping my breast by pushing milk from the top of my breast down. Burping her after a feeding and putting her back on the same breast for round 2. That round is usually less painful. Lanolin and those Lansinoh pads. But then I have to wash the lanolin off before feeding her and I think that much washing aggravates my breasts. She has tons of trouble latching if I don't wipe them off.
Any tips? We had different challenges with her big sister for the most part.
I think a six day old baby can still be swaddled completely and snuggly and that will solve many of your problems. Ideally you feed her then your partner takes her, swaddles her, then puts her (slightly awake) in her bed. Keep your home slightly noisy so she's hearing life all the time.
Swaddling firmly and completely is the only thing that will really settle her at this age, other than being cuddled to sleep. And that's going to kill you. Stop it now while she's tiny. Ask me how I know.
Keep her close to you, in the cosleeper, but proper midwife style swaddling is the answer. YouTube can probably help. Keep those arms in. And perhaps let her sleep on an item of your clothing that's straight and not bunched up. Don't put her in your bed. It really is a SIDS risk.
Also, congratulations!!
posted by taff at 5:00 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Swaddling firmly and completely is the only thing that will really settle her at this age, other than being cuddled to sleep. And that's going to kill you. Stop it now while she's tiny. Ask me how I know.
Keep her close to you, in the cosleeper, but proper midwife style swaddling is the answer. YouTube can probably help. Keep those arms in. And perhaps let her sleep on an item of your clothing that's straight and not bunched up. Don't put her in your bed. It really is a SIDS risk.
Also, congratulations!!
posted by taff at 5:00 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hugs. I was here. It was so hard.
Do you have a good comfortable recliner that lets you sleep comfortably with her in your arms? I would never have survived without this. If you're in the US, I can send you a link to one I recently bought that was like $400 and is nice, with flat soft arms to put your tablet and drink on. Space saving, too. If money is no object, La Z Boy is the best.
Re the breastfeeding. Oh god. I had a little lamprey mouth too and those first few days were the WORST. Anyway, just here to reassure you to keep doing what you are doing. Wide latch only. She comes off the nipple? Sorry baby, you can't hurt mom. I'm assuming you know how to give her a big mouthful of boob by pinching above your nipple and cramming as much under-nipple flesh as you can into her mouth, so your nipple points at the roof of her mouth as it goes in, yes? So you just do that until she learns. She WILL learn; this is the thing they instinctively do best.
And, please grok and know and believe that breast feeding is NOT the end all be all of parenting. If after 2-3 weeks it is not working for the two of you, formula is absolutely fine. Ignore the mommy bloggers; ignore the weird special interest groups that would tell you differently. Most of the moms you meet are supplementing and a lot of them (us!) have switched to formula completely for all kinds of reasons. Your baby will be fine if breast feeding doesn't work out. Sometimes it doesn't. Mine didn't. My babies didn't suffer for lack of it and neither will yours.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:01 PM on July 5, 2015 [29 favorites]
Do you have a good comfortable recliner that lets you sleep comfortably with her in your arms? I would never have survived without this. If you're in the US, I can send you a link to one I recently bought that was like $400 and is nice, with flat soft arms to put your tablet and drink on. Space saving, too. If money is no object, La Z Boy is the best.
Re the breastfeeding. Oh god. I had a little lamprey mouth too and those first few days were the WORST. Anyway, just here to reassure you to keep doing what you are doing. Wide latch only. She comes off the nipple? Sorry baby, you can't hurt mom. I'm assuming you know how to give her a big mouthful of boob by pinching above your nipple and cramming as much under-nipple flesh as you can into her mouth, so your nipple points at the roof of her mouth as it goes in, yes? So you just do that until she learns. She WILL learn; this is the thing they instinctively do best.
And, please grok and know and believe that breast feeding is NOT the end all be all of parenting. If after 2-3 weeks it is not working for the two of you, formula is absolutely fine. Ignore the mommy bloggers; ignore the weird special interest groups that would tell you differently. Most of the moms you meet are supplementing and a lot of them (us!) have switched to formula completely for all kinds of reasons. Your baby will be fine if breast feeding doesn't work out. Sometimes it doesn't. Mine didn't. My babies didn't suffer for lack of it and neither will yours.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:01 PM on July 5, 2015 [29 favorites]
I used Lansinoh lanolin, and the directions specifically said you didn't have to wash it off. I occasionally had a fair amount of pain with breastfeeding, too, and I think that washing off lanolin would have been an insult too far for me. If your current lanolin requires you wash it off before feeding, switch brands to one that doesn't.
posted by Coatlicue at 5:06 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Coatlicue at 5:06 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Boy, do I feel for you. I remember it well. I think the key is (and easier said than done) to get the big wide mouth latch instead of just the tip of the nipple where it's so much more sensitive and painful. When she latched the latter way, my lactation consultant would just take it out and reposition her and try again until we got the right latch and eventually baby (and I!) learnt. You're right about prepping it so the milk is in because if it's not, the little one just gets angry and frustrated and mauls your nipples trying to get more.
You didn't mention if your nipples are cracked or sore but if they are, the top tip my friend gave me was to rub breast milk on them and let them air dry because they heal faster. This involves walking around topless and bra-less for most of the day which is fine if no one else is around and it makes a huge amount of difference because the faster they heal, the more comfortable feeding will be. As you've found, when it's sore, you tense up as the baby latches and it makes everything that much more difficult.
I found the point you're at the hardest and if you persist, you should be alright. But really, if it's too hard and frustrating and miserable, it's ok to not. Don't let anyone guilt you into it if it's turning into a hellish experience and you've tried your best.
posted by Jubey at 5:06 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
You didn't mention if your nipples are cracked or sore but if they are, the top tip my friend gave me was to rub breast milk on them and let them air dry because they heal faster. This involves walking around topless and bra-less for most of the day which is fine if no one else is around and it makes a huge amount of difference because the faster they heal, the more comfortable feeding will be. As you've found, when it's sore, you tense up as the baby latches and it makes everything that much more difficult.
I found the point you're at the hardest and if you persist, you should be alright. But really, if it's too hard and frustrating and miserable, it's ok to not. Don't let anyone guilt you into it if it's turning into a hellish experience and you've tried your best.
posted by Jubey at 5:06 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also do shushing along with swaddling, Happiest Baby on the Block style. Babies apparently like a surprisingly loud white noise because it reminds them of the blood whooshing through the arteries when they're in utero.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:16 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:16 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Can dad find another place to sleep? If you can use the co-sleeper in the bed with you, you'll get much better sleep. It's only for a bit while you all get adjusted.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 5:20 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by PorcineWithMe at 5:20 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
The nursing pain you're describing sounds similar to what a good friend of mine experienced with her firstborn, who had both a lip and tongue tie. (They had one of the two lasered off after a week, which my friend really didn't want to do, but which helped immensely and apparently didn't cause the little one any distress.) Have any of the lactation consultants evaluated her for ties?
Congratulations on the birth of your daughter, and hope more sleep comes your way soon!
posted by deludingmyself at 5:25 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Congratulations on the birth of your daughter, and hope more sleep comes your way soon!
posted by deludingmyself at 5:25 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do you have any sort of propped-up seat she can sleep in? Some little babies hate to lay flat. I would see about getting a rock n' play; both of babies love the one we bought in 2012, and the newer ones vibrate, even.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:27 PM on July 5, 2015
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:27 PM on July 5, 2015
Miracle blanket + rock n play.
For breastfeeding - try hand expressing a little so your breast is softer?
posted by yarly at 5:28 PM on July 5, 2015
For breastfeeding - try hand expressing a little so your breast is softer?
posted by yarly at 5:28 PM on July 5, 2015
Co-sleeping is not a SIDS risk. Read up on the research (being aware that some has not discriminated between an alcoholic mother passed out on the sofa with a baby and a planned co-sleeping situations...) and look at the guidelines on how to do it safely and get some rest.
One thing that worked well with the then-baby here was a very thick mattress topper chucked on the floor.
Try nursing in the bathtub, and, before she wakes -- just as soon as there are faint stirrings, before the kid even knows she's waking up, stick her on. Both can be good ways to get a calm well-latched feed in.
Beware of nurses self-styled as uncredentialed LCs; loads of women in my little mummies' group got terrible advice from that sort.
posted by kmennie at 5:34 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
One thing that worked well with the then-baby here was a very thick mattress topper chucked on the floor.
Try nursing in the bathtub, and, before she wakes -- just as soon as there are faint stirrings, before the kid even knows she's waking up, stick her on. Both can be good ways to get a calm well-latched feed in.
Beware of nurses self-styled as uncredentialed LCs; loads of women in my little mummies' group got terrible advice from that sort.
posted by kmennie at 5:34 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I used coconut oil on my (destroyed) nipples and it was a lifesaver.
posted by lydhre at 5:36 PM on July 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 5:36 PM on July 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Try a swing for sleeping. The motion may simulate the gentle movements of being held. Swings saved my sanity some days when min kids were tiny.
posted by SLC Mom at 5:46 PM on July 5, 2015
posted by SLC Mom at 5:46 PM on July 5, 2015
With my second, even after the initial cracked nipples healed, I had terrible pain at latching for the first 60-90 seconds, and that persisted for the first three weeks. (It has a name, the 60-second sizzle -- Google it if you want.) My LC said to make sure I never let him latch when the latch wasn't good so at least I'd lessen any further damage to my nipples (and I'd know the pain really was just the 60-second sizzle and not bad latch pain), and to take ibuprofen around the clock until the first few weeks had passed. For a while, I was taking 600 mg of Advil every six hours until the pain eased. And it was toe-curling pain, just horrible. I don't know if it's a second time thing, like afterpains, or just that my second has a VERY strong suck, but it was really the worst thing about breastfeeding this time around. If that's what you're experiencing, push the Advil -- I found it really did make a difference -- and know it'll pass by two weeks, at most three weeks (I was on the longer side, alas).
posted by devinemissk at 5:55 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by devinemissk at 5:55 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Really tight swaddle and rock n play worked for us. We nursed to sleep or almost sleep, then into the rock n play. Also for the second babe, we had a sound machine which helped me sleep as much as her. I am super annoyed I didn't get one for the first baby.
Also, my personal opinion is that one can totally co-sleep safely if smart about it. I think it is much much safer than sleeping with an infant in a recliner.
Nursing- try La Leche League meetings. You will have a wider range of experience there to help provide suggestions. Try different positions, particularly after my c-section the football hold seemed to really work well. Also Lanisnoh cream (do not wipe off) and letting the nipples air dry help. Oversupply could possible cause the pursed lip latch. Try pumping a ounce or two, then nurse and see how the latch is then.
posted by sulaine at 6:16 PM on July 5, 2015
Also, my personal opinion is that one can totally co-sleep safely if smart about it. I think it is much much safer than sleeping with an infant in a recliner.
Nursing- try La Leche League meetings. You will have a wider range of experience there to help provide suggestions. Try different positions, particularly after my c-section the football hold seemed to really work well. Also Lanisnoh cream (do not wipe off) and letting the nipples air dry help. Oversupply could possible cause the pursed lip latch. Try pumping a ounce or two, then nurse and see how the latch is then.
posted by sulaine at 6:16 PM on July 5, 2015
We had a small crib / cosleeper that tied to the side of our bed. Our first slept in this right next to mom, but in her own space for the first month.
And I'll second the Happiest Baby on the Block and swaddling with a light, stretchy fabric to give our daughters a comfy snug sleep situation without sleeping on either parent.
Congrats and good luck!
posted by nickggully at 6:20 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
And I'll second the Happiest Baby on the Block and swaddling with a light, stretchy fabric to give our daughters a comfy snug sleep situation without sleeping on either parent.
Congrats and good luck!
posted by nickggully at 6:20 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
You are recovering from major surgery. You need sleep. It is perfectly okay to not breastfeed. It is perfectly okay to use a pacifier. Thankfully, it sounds like your husband is doing his part at night but, until you have healed, he either needs to take night duty full force or hire a night nanny.
The benefits of breastfeeding are nothing compared to the benefits of a well rested, healthy mommy.
I don't know why, as women, we are expected to perform these super human tasks. It is ridiculous. Do you think that your husband would be putting himself through all of this after major surgery? No! He would be demanding that you wait on him hand and foot as well as take care of the baby. Take care of you so that you can take care of your children.
Baby will settle into a routine in a few weeks. Until then, don't strive for perfection or work towards the ideal parenting goals. Just get by. It will get better.
posted by myselfasme at 6:22 PM on July 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
The benefits of breastfeeding are nothing compared to the benefits of a well rested, healthy mommy.
I don't know why, as women, we are expected to perform these super human tasks. It is ridiculous. Do you think that your husband would be putting himself through all of this after major surgery? No! He would be demanding that you wait on him hand and foot as well as take care of the baby. Take care of you so that you can take care of your children.
Baby will settle into a routine in a few weeks. Until then, don't strive for perfection or work towards the ideal parenting goals. Just get by. It will get better.
posted by myselfasme at 6:22 PM on July 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
Oh you poor dear... First off, a latch that causes you horrible pain isn't a good one.
PP who advised being tough about a wide open mouth were bang on - she may prefer pursed mouth, but be firm! She will adjust. Have you heard of Dr Jack Newman? He is a bf'ing specialist. His site has lots of great resources including videos which may help.
To get your baby sleeping on her own, you can try putting a heating pad down for 5 minutes where you'll be putting her down so it's nice and toasty (remove the heating pad before putting her down), and the #1 thing that worked for us was after putting her down, hold your hand firmly to her chest to simulate the pressure of being held against you. Keep your hand there for 10-15 minutes, which will feel like forever. You need to get her past the fluttery just-getting-settled, through the light sleep, into the real deep sleep. If you pick up her arm and it flops down when you drop it, then she's really out and you can safely take your hand away (slowly & gently).
For soothers, stick to these ones and ONLY those ones!
Regarding co-sleeping, the last time I had a newborn, guidelines were strict about not co-sleeping on chairs/loungers/couches. Best advice was for the mom to wear warm clothes (like a turtleneck that was cut up the front to allow nursing) instead of having sheets or blankets on the bed. It's such a stressful time - hopefully you are getting a ton of help & support!!
posted by dotparker at 6:26 PM on July 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
PP who advised being tough about a wide open mouth were bang on - she may prefer pursed mouth, but be firm! She will adjust. Have you heard of Dr Jack Newman? He is a bf'ing specialist. His site has lots of great resources including videos which may help.
To get your baby sleeping on her own, you can try putting a heating pad down for 5 minutes where you'll be putting her down so it's nice and toasty (remove the heating pad before putting her down), and the #1 thing that worked for us was after putting her down, hold your hand firmly to her chest to simulate the pressure of being held against you. Keep your hand there for 10-15 minutes, which will feel like forever. You need to get her past the fluttery just-getting-settled, through the light sleep, into the real deep sleep. If you pick up her arm and it flops down when you drop it, then she's really out and you can safely take your hand away (slowly & gently).
For soothers, stick to these ones and ONLY those ones!
Regarding co-sleeping, the last time I had a newborn, guidelines were strict about not co-sleeping on chairs/loungers/couches. Best advice was for the mom to wear warm clothes (like a turtleneck that was cut up the front to allow nursing) instead of having sheets or blankets on the bed. It's such a stressful time - hopefully you are getting a ton of help & support!!
posted by dotparker at 6:26 PM on July 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Congratulations! And I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. Those early days are so hard.
My first suggestion is that the three of you stop trying to co-sleep, and your partner sleep elsewhere for a few weeks. Yes, it sucks. My husband spent the first month or so on the couch or on the floor of our daughter's room (my mom was in the guest room). I was terrified of co-sleeping, but it was the only way to get enough sleep to function and recover. Then we traded and the baby slept in the guest room in a swing or swaddled on the bed, my husband slept in our bed, and I slept on the couch so I could pop in, nurse the baby, and slide back out again. We did that for probably three months. Yeah. Not the way I wanted things to go, but those first couple months are so brutal, especially when you have an older child to care for and can't just "nap when the baby naps". So. Get your partner out of the bed, make the bed safer for co-sleeping (no sheets, no blankets, or put her in the co-sleeper while you're the only one in bed with her) so that you can relax, and just try to survive the next couple weeks til you're either getting longer stretches of sleep or she can sleep in the swing or without you holding her.
Second, try a couple different swaddle options, like the Woombie or velcro wraps, or the batwing swaddle. Swaddling will get her out of your arms, and there are almost no six-day-old babies who actually hate to be swaddled. Harvey Karp's advice is right on about this.
Third, get lanolin that doesn't need to be washed off, apply liberally, apply frequently. Do you have the cooling gel pads for your nipples?
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 6:28 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
My first suggestion is that the three of you stop trying to co-sleep, and your partner sleep elsewhere for a few weeks. Yes, it sucks. My husband spent the first month or so on the couch or on the floor of our daughter's room (my mom was in the guest room). I was terrified of co-sleeping, but it was the only way to get enough sleep to function and recover. Then we traded and the baby slept in the guest room in a swing or swaddled on the bed, my husband slept in our bed, and I slept on the couch so I could pop in, nurse the baby, and slide back out again. We did that for probably three months. Yeah. Not the way I wanted things to go, but those first couple months are so brutal, especially when you have an older child to care for and can't just "nap when the baby naps". So. Get your partner out of the bed, make the bed safer for co-sleeping (no sheets, no blankets, or put her in the co-sleeper while you're the only one in bed with her) so that you can relax, and just try to survive the next couple weeks til you're either getting longer stretches of sleep or she can sleep in the swing or without you holding her.
Second, try a couple different swaddle options, like the Woombie or velcro wraps, or the batwing swaddle. Swaddling will get her out of your arms, and there are almost no six-day-old babies who actually hate to be swaddled. Harvey Karp's advice is right on about this.
Third, get lanolin that doesn't need to be washed off, apply liberally, apply frequently. Do you have the cooling gel pads for your nipples?
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 6:28 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would check out tongue ties, for sure. Have you tried side-lie feeding? That worked really well for bub and I - we coslept with my partner in a queensize bed with a cot as a cosleeper crib next to the bed. He also coslept with our daughter when I was in hospital as well. It can be done safely, particularly now you're coming off the stronger painkillers.
Nipple shields worked really well for us too.
I have huge boobs and what worked best when upright was positioning the baby and feeding my boob into her mouth - latching without that just didn't work, because my breast tissue didn't work with her mouth shape and size until she was much bigger and older.
The other thing, since you mention the shooting pain, is thrush? That was what my LC mentioned as a possibility if you're on antibiotics or anything. It can cause bad latches apparently as well.
Good luck! And yes, bottles and formula aren't failures!
posted by geek anachronism at 6:33 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nipple shields worked really well for us too.
I have huge boobs and what worked best when upright was positioning the baby and feeding my boob into her mouth - latching without that just didn't work, because my breast tissue didn't work with her mouth shape and size until she was much bigger and older.
The other thing, since you mention the shooting pain, is thrush? That was what my LC mentioned as a possibility if you're on antibiotics or anything. It can cause bad latches apparently as well.
Good luck! And yes, bottles and formula aren't failures!
posted by geek anachronism at 6:33 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
It was I who suggested a recliner as an emergency measure (my girl did much better in that position than in a bed) but I am chiming back in to say that a properly arranged bed shouldn't be a SIDS risk. With a firm mattress, her in a sleep sack and you in warm fleece jammies instead of blankets, you will be ok. You'd need to remove the pillows/blankets, and possibly the husband, while you do this; but it's just temporary, she is growing and changing day to day, and for right now you just need to get through it while keeping all of you safe and sane. And yes, you shouldn't have to wash off your lanolin, that's the whole point of lanolin, otherwise we'd use vaseline... olive oil worked better for me though as the smell of the lanolin was so offensive and it was never soft enough.
Good luck! It's shocking how it's not easier even though it's the second time and you feel like it shouldn't be new, isn't it? But it will get easier.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:46 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Good luck! It's shocking how it's not easier even though it's the second time and you feel like it shouldn't be new, isn't it? But it will get easier.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:46 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I had one that hated being swaddled. None of mine really liked it, but one absolutely hated it. It's one of those things that "the experts" will tell you to do to all babies - and as the parent, you need to decide in favor of common sense if appropriate for your child.
As for the nipple-latching - I'm pretty sure I experienced the same thing with my third child, even though he never had a pacifier. I discovered my nipples were suddenly huge, and my milk dropped - painfully - the instant he whimpered. With him, I just plain had to keep removing him if he got a bad latch, by putting my finger in the side of his mouth, and popping him off. To get him latched on right, I finally got it sorted out so that I kinda squeezed the end of my breast into a point, and stuffed it in there as far as I could, farther then felt "normal" - but I could tell that it made him latch on right, because there was barely any pain. And he definitely fed better that way, which led to better sleep. He was also a big baby (9lbs 8oz) and ate way more at a feeding than either of his older sibs did at first. I'm pretty sure with him those early days of non-sleeping misery were because though it seemed like he was getting enough milk, based on time nursing, he really wasn't, because of poor latching.
I also learned that it was better if I either fed him before I was totally engorged, or expressed some milk out by hand first to freeze - made for better latching and less pain. Once we figured out the latching, the pain went away pretty quickly.
posted by stormyteal at 6:52 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
As for the nipple-latching - I'm pretty sure I experienced the same thing with my third child, even though he never had a pacifier. I discovered my nipples were suddenly huge, and my milk dropped - painfully - the instant he whimpered. With him, I just plain had to keep removing him if he got a bad latch, by putting my finger in the side of his mouth, and popping him off. To get him latched on right, I finally got it sorted out so that I kinda squeezed the end of my breast into a point, and stuffed it in there as far as I could, farther then felt "normal" - but I could tell that it made him latch on right, because there was barely any pain. And he definitely fed better that way, which led to better sleep. He was also a big baby (9lbs 8oz) and ate way more at a feeding than either of his older sibs did at first. I'm pretty sure with him those early days of non-sleeping misery were because though it seemed like he was getting enough milk, based on time nursing, he really wasn't, because of poor latching.
I also learned that it was better if I either fed him before I was totally engorged, or expressed some milk out by hand first to freeze - made for better latching and less pain. Once we figured out the latching, the pain went away pretty quickly.
posted by stormyteal at 6:52 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Solidarity sister! I'm currently laying next to my one month old born via c section. My husband is a Kung fu fighter in his sleep so the first 3.5 weeks post surgery he was on the couch so that I wasn't jostled and I could cosleep with the baby. Cosleeping has saved my sanity because I get so much more sleep and I can nurse the baby in the sidelying position when she just stars to wake so she isn't fully waking at night and crying. Her latch was TERRIBLE (pursed lips, like she was sucking a straw) but catching her before she's really hungry has helped her learn to nurse appropriately. At a month she's now a nursing champ but if she wasn't by now she'd probably be on formula even if only at night. This coming from a lady who nursed her now three year old for two years! Nursing is great but having a sane mommy and well fed baby is more important than the hype surrounding breastfeeding.
I'd suggest reading up on safe cosleeping practices and maybe giving it a trial run during a daytime nap to see if you're comfortable with it and if you are talk to your husband about relocating for awhile. I know it's less than ideal to ask your husband to move but sleep is important and this is temporary. If nursing isn't working don't feel bad about formula/partial formula. One benefit to formula is that you could rotate who gets up with the wee one at night which is awesome.
Congratulations on your new baby, I hope things destress for you soon.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 7:56 PM on July 5, 2015
I'd suggest reading up on safe cosleeping practices and maybe giving it a trial run during a daytime nap to see if you're comfortable with it and if you are talk to your husband about relocating for awhile. I know it's less than ideal to ask your husband to move but sleep is important and this is temporary. If nursing isn't working don't feel bad about formula/partial formula. One benefit to formula is that you could rotate who gets up with the wee one at night which is awesome.
Congratulations on your new baby, I hope things destress for you soon.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 7:56 PM on July 5, 2015
Sorry for the run on sentences etc., this weekend was exhausting.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 7:57 PM on July 5, 2015
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 7:57 PM on July 5, 2015
our son slept in his swing for eons... sometimes we'd move him to the crib in the middle of the night, sometimes we just left him. he's now five months old and now seems to be fine sleeping without the swing. we thought we'd have to wean him, nope!
we also can recommend swaddling and white noise for sleep. we tried the velcro swaddler wraps and ultimately just used blankets.
no advise on the breastfeeding stuff, we went full-formula after a week of serious breastfeeding problems and stress.
posted by noloveforned at 8:00 PM on July 5, 2015
we also can recommend swaddling and white noise for sleep. we tried the velcro swaddler wraps and ultimately just used blankets.
no advise on the breastfeeding stuff, we went full-formula after a week of serious breastfeeding problems and stress.
posted by noloveforned at 8:00 PM on July 5, 2015
we went full-formula after a week of serious breastfeeding problems and stress. (noloveforned)
I wish we had done this. My kids are now in their 20s, but I still remember how incredibly difficult, painful, and exhausting it was to breastfeed. I felt it was super important to stick with it, but with hindsight, I wish I had just moved on, after giving it a go for a week. Please consider doing that.
posted by merejane at 8:08 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
I wish we had done this. My kids are now in their 20s, but I still remember how incredibly difficult, painful, and exhausting it was to breastfeed. I felt it was super important to stick with it, but with hindsight, I wish I had just moved on, after giving it a go for a week. Please consider doing that.
posted by merejane at 8:08 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
In reference to a comment above- an overtired parent on painkillers recovering from surgery is exactly a SIDS risk. Swaddle your bundle and keep her very, very close but not in bed.
posted by taff at 8:16 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by taff at 8:16 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks so much. Lots to think about.
Lansinoh is what I've used and their nipple pads. It's like my nipples are too slick afterwards for her to latch...
Yes to white noise.
So the swings are safe for months on end? And no weaning? That could be the ticket ... it just seems like the position would be bad for their spines or something!
She really, truly will not rest til she frees her arms from the swaddle so I see no point in forcing the issue. I did try all the swaddle alternatives with my oldest so I may whip them out and try the underarm swaddle method.
posted by semacd at 8:18 PM on July 5, 2015
Lansinoh is what I've used and their nipple pads. It's like my nipples are too slick afterwards for her to latch...
Yes to white noise.
So the swings are safe for months on end? And no weaning? That could be the ticket ... it just seems like the position would be bad for their spines or something!
She really, truly will not rest til she frees her arms from the swaddle so I see no point in forcing the issue. I did try all the swaddle alternatives with my oldest so I may whip them out and try the underarm swaddle method.
posted by semacd at 8:18 PM on July 5, 2015
In the early days, we evicted dad from the bed and baby and I co-slept in the big bed. I removed all pillows except mine and had no blankets above the waist.
Breast feeding was tough with both but particularly excruciating with the little one. If your nipple is too hard to latch her on, hand express a little milk first to soften it up. I ended up needing to give ours this extra milk via bottle as she had jaundice and needed to eat more.
My nipple skin got destroyed completely (she was a little piranha) and I ended up using a nipple shield against the LC's advice. It was the only way I could survive. Relatedly, a perverse truth of breast feeding is you have to relax or the milk won't come. Which is fucking impossible if you're in excruciating pain. The LC did have me try the Motherlove olive oil based ointment which was SO MUCH BETTER for me than lanolin. Seriously, stuff was amazing. A bit expensive but one 2 oz jar got me to the point I didn't need it anymore.
Also, a week in is a really tough time. You're exhausted and sleep deprived and running on fumes and the baby hasn't regulated at all. It gets better. At this stage , if you wake up in the morning and everyone is alive, you win. Do whatever it takes to stay alive and don't worry about bad habits. It gets better.
posted by telepanda at 8:20 PM on July 5, 2015
Breast feeding was tough with both but particularly excruciating with the little one. If your nipple is too hard to latch her on, hand express a little milk first to soften it up. I ended up needing to give ours this extra milk via bottle as she had jaundice and needed to eat more.
My nipple skin got destroyed completely (she was a little piranha) and I ended up using a nipple shield against the LC's advice. It was the only way I could survive. Relatedly, a perverse truth of breast feeding is you have to relax or the milk won't come. Which is fucking impossible if you're in excruciating pain. The LC did have me try the Motherlove olive oil based ointment which was SO MUCH BETTER for me than lanolin. Seriously, stuff was amazing. A bit expensive but one 2 oz jar got me to the point I didn't need it anymore.
Also, a week in is a really tough time. You're exhausted and sleep deprived and running on fumes and the baby hasn't regulated at all. It gets better. At this stage , if you wake up in the morning and everyone is alive, you win. Do whatever it takes to stay alive and don't worry about bad habits. It gets better.
posted by telepanda at 8:20 PM on July 5, 2015
Response by poster: 60 second sizzle! That's it. When the latch is right.
posted by semacd at 8:22 PM on July 5, 2015
posted by semacd at 8:22 PM on July 5, 2015
Despite my pleading, my pediatrician was adamant that the baby needed to sleep flat on her back at night -- something to do with her breathing. She said naps in the swing or bouncy chair were ok but that nighttime sleep had to be flat on her back. Ask your ped what she thinks.
And yes, not every baby will tolerate swaddling.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:26 PM on July 5, 2015
And yes, not every baby will tolerate swaddling.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:26 PM on July 5, 2015
This will change your life:
Earth Mama Nipple Butter
Instead of lanolin. Goes on so much more gently, doesn't have to be removed. It is the best.
posted by leitmotif at 8:30 PM on July 5, 2015
Earth Mama Nipple Butter
Instead of lanolin. Goes on so much more gently, doesn't have to be removed. It is the best.
posted by leitmotif at 8:30 PM on July 5, 2015
Jack Newman's nipple cream might help. My doctor prescribed it and the pharmacy made a tiny jar.
posted by SandiBeech at 8:31 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by SandiBeech at 8:31 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
There is not a lot of medical research on the safety or efficacy of swing sleeping, but what there is is very well summed up at TroublesomeTots.com. Check with your pediatrician, of course, but it was considered safe for my 25-week preemie with a history of apnea and who was on oxygen. It didn't even occur to me to ask them about whether it was okay for the second baby to do so; it's Malcolm X territory.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 8:32 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 8:32 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Baby swings, car capsules and bouncinettes are dangerous for the neonates to sleep in. Their heads can flop down and close their airways. I know about swings because our youngest would only sleep in a swing and when the latest warnings were released I was horrified. Our oldest child experienced a SIDS related event where he had to be resuscitated and spent months in intensive care and came home on a SIDS monitor so I thought I was on to it.
Baby's bed only. Completely flat surface, very close to parents but not in the parents bed. No bumpers, no quilts, no beanies, no pets, no teddies.
And lots of family noise.
Hugs. It's particularly hard when you're getting over a caesar. (Also be careful of baby wearing in slings, but that's a discussion for another day.)
posted by taff at 8:35 PM on July 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
Baby's bed only. Completely flat surface, very close to parents but not in the parents bed. No bumpers, no quilts, no beanies, no pets, no teddies.
And lots of family noise.
Hugs. It's particularly hard when you're getting over a caesar. (Also be careful of baby wearing in slings, but that's a discussion for another day.)
posted by taff at 8:35 PM on July 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
I had really irritated nipples from the disposable Lansinoh nipple pads, and it went away after I switched to cloth. When your baby is tearing your nipples to shreds it doesn't help if your nipples are being sandblasted the rest of the time by paper pads!
I used a nipple shield on and off in the first couple months to deal with the pain during nursing, and I was able to stop once my preemie's mouth finally grew big enough to get a reliably good latch. I, too, was worries about nipple confusion, but the little dude just clamped down and sucked whatever he had in his mouth with the same ferocity. Pacifiers were a lifesaver for sleep.
posted by Maarika at 8:47 PM on July 5, 2015
I used a nipple shield on and off in the first couple months to deal with the pain during nursing, and I was able to stop once my preemie's mouth finally grew big enough to get a reliably good latch. I, too, was worries about nipple confusion, but the little dude just clamped down and sucked whatever he had in his mouth with the same ferocity. Pacifiers were a lifesaver for sleep.
posted by Maarika at 8:47 PM on July 5, 2015
I feel for you so much re: Thing #1, especially. This has been my life since late April - my almost-10 week old sounds a lot like yours.
What worked for us: splitting the night into shifts. I would feed her around 8 and then go pass out for 6 hours, dad stayed up with her and gave a bottle halfway through my sleep. He would come get me when she was hungry next, usually around 2 or 3 am, and we'd trade off. Skipping that one feeding around 10/11 caused havoc with my supply in the PM that I'm still dealing with today, but you know what? It made me a more sane and present mother, so screw it. Unfortunately I did not have this screw it attitude a few weeks ago and wish I had not wasted time feeling guilty, so there's some
advice for you too!
Around 7 weeks I started testing quick naps in a rock & play, and after a few sleepless nights we've been able to transition her, so there is hope!
This is so hard! I don't feel like people talk about this enough or acknowledge just how challenging the first few weeks can be, beyond saying things like "sleep while you can" when you're still pregnant. Take care of yourself!!
posted by marmago at 9:11 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
What worked for us: splitting the night into shifts. I would feed her around 8 and then go pass out for 6 hours, dad stayed up with her and gave a bottle halfway through my sleep. He would come get me when she was hungry next, usually around 2 or 3 am, and we'd trade off. Skipping that one feeding around 10/11 caused havoc with my supply in the PM that I'm still dealing with today, but you know what? It made me a more sane and present mother, so screw it. Unfortunately I did not have this screw it attitude a few weeks ago and wish I had not wasted time feeling guilty, so there's some
advice for you too!
Around 7 weeks I started testing quick naps in a rock & play, and after a few sleepless nights we've been able to transition her, so there is hope!
This is so hard! I don't feel like people talk about this enough or acknowledge just how challenging the first few weeks can be, beyond saying things like "sleep while you can" when you're still pregnant. Take care of yourself!!
posted by marmago at 9:11 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
My first baby was tongue tied and breastfeeding hurt like hell for a while. The first lactation consultants kept saying she was latched right but a third one checked and she was just biting me, not actually sucking. So make sure you can tell the baby's sucking - watch for movement by the baby's ears. Movement from the mouth towards the ears, I guess. The biting looked like pac man movements. Anyway, it hurt too much so we did finger feeding with formula for a couple of days in between feedings. She caught on and it stopped hurting right at about two weeks.
With my third one, I was having trouble again and the smart lactation nurse who figured out baby number one showed up (10 years later and at a different hospital) and said my trouble was that now I knew how to breastfeed, but the baby still didn't. I was just sort of expecting it to work right. I had to sort of pull down on her chin to make her open her mouth really wide and shove in as much as I could with the other hand. (I don't exactly know what I was holding the baby with? A pillow?)
Good luck!
posted by artychoke at 9:31 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
With my third one, I was having trouble again and the smart lactation nurse who figured out baby number one showed up (10 years later and at a different hospital) and said my trouble was that now I knew how to breastfeed, but the baby still didn't. I was just sort of expecting it to work right. I had to sort of pull down on her chin to make her open her mouth really wide and shove in as much as I could with the other hand. (I don't exactly know what I was holding the baby with? A pillow?)
Good luck!
posted by artychoke at 9:31 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Something you might consider trying is a combination of laid-back breastfeeding and baby-led latching. This is a technique I learned about in various doula trainings, and which helped me tremendously with my second baby. It solved the shallow latch problem and the problem where he'd choke from oversupply/overactive letdown. It's kind of the opposite of the ol' make-a-hamburger-and-shove-it-in maneuver.
posted by linettasky at 10:13 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by linettasky at 10:13 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
With my first I had such a powerful letdown that she was having a hard time taking in the flow. She would bite my nipple to slow down the flow. Which of course hurt like hell and left me crying in anticipation of every feeding until we finally realized that pumping of hand expressing prior to each feeding helped reduce the biting. It took 6 weeks before my nipples healed and breast feeding became easier.
With my second she refused from the get go to sleep in a swaddle or in her crib. Like you, we literally had to hold her in order for to sleep and like you, I was afraid of co-sleeping. What helped us was that one of us (usually me because I'm the lighter sleeper) would sleep propped up on a bunch of floor pillows in the bed. It was uncomfortable for sure. After about two weeks we transitioned to a method where I'd nurse her on my side (if you don't know how to do this then learn because side nursing is amazing) and then roll her off so she was in the middle of the bed. Husband and I each had our own sheet or blanket so nothing went even near baby. Plus when I rolled her off my breast I kind of scooted her up so that her head was level with ours. It worked. Problem now is that she wants to nurse herself to sleep laying on her side and in our bed. I end up having to move her to her crib later. She's almost one. She would love it if she got to sleep with us all the time. My first was in her crib from week 2. Some babies just need the contact. Bonus is that the second one has turned out to be a major snuggler.
posted by teamnap at 10:16 PM on July 5, 2015
With my second she refused from the get go to sleep in a swaddle or in her crib. Like you, we literally had to hold her in order for to sleep and like you, I was afraid of co-sleeping. What helped us was that one of us (usually me because I'm the lighter sleeper) would sleep propped up on a bunch of floor pillows in the bed. It was uncomfortable for sure. After about two weeks we transitioned to a method where I'd nurse her on my side (if you don't know how to do this then learn because side nursing is amazing) and then roll her off so she was in the middle of the bed. Husband and I each had our own sheet or blanket so nothing went even near baby. Plus when I rolled her off my breast I kind of scooted her up so that her head was level with ours. It worked. Problem now is that she wants to nurse herself to sleep laying on her side and in our bed. I end up having to move her to her crib later. She's almost one. She would love it if she got to sleep with us all the time. My first was in her crib from week 2. Some babies just need the contact. Bonus is that the second one has turned out to be a major snuggler.
posted by teamnap at 10:16 PM on July 5, 2015
Please get multiple professionals (ped or LC) if the first can't see it but I am positive you will find a tongue tie or lip tie. Your presentation is text book (I was an LC for our public health unit).
Also the Jack Newman All Purpose Nipple Ointment is amazing. You will need an Rx for it (Google it and print it out for your doctor in case they are not familiar with the good Doc).
Good luck. I believe it's worth some more troubleshooting before turning to formula. The nursing relationship is a huge parenting tool if you can get it to work for you.
Also your husband needs to find another place to sleep for a bit and I suggest sleeping in shifts so you can spell each other off. It will get better.
posted by saradarlin at 11:10 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also the Jack Newman All Purpose Nipple Ointment is amazing. You will need an Rx for it (Google it and print it out for your doctor in case they are not familiar with the good Doc).
Good luck. I believe it's worth some more troubleshooting before turning to formula. The nursing relationship is a huge parenting tool if you can get it to work for you.
Also your husband needs to find another place to sleep for a bit and I suggest sleeping in shifts so you can spell each other off. It will get better.
posted by saradarlin at 11:10 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
For thing 1) my son was similar and did a bit better when he slept on a bit of an incline. Possibly reflux?
posted by HMSSM at 11:34 PM on July 5, 2015
posted by HMSSM at 11:34 PM on July 5, 2015
This is my baby too! We got a co-sleeper that attached to the side of our bed and when he outgrew that we sidecar-ed the cot. Lots of sleeping on an empty mattress without dad off and on.
Ooof, the suction! I used Bigelow &Co Rose balm. It's mostly lanolin, but thinner so it soaks in better and doesn't need wiped off.
He's 9.5 months and both these things have gotton lots better.
Hugs!!
posted by jrobin276 at 1:20 AM on July 6, 2015
Ooof, the suction! I used Bigelow &Co Rose balm. It's mostly lanolin, but thinner so it soaks in better and doesn't need wiped off.
He's 9.5 months and both these things have gotton lots better.
Hugs!!
posted by jrobin276 at 1:20 AM on July 6, 2015
I'm a doctor and also a mom who had problems like this with both babies.
Please do not sleep in a recliner with baby!! That's absolutely unsafe.
Really, the approach taff describes (baby flat on bed with nothing in crib) is the only one promoted by the AAP, CDC, and other health authorities. Bed sharing is associated with increased risk of suffocation. Many docs I know have horror stories of seeing newborns coming in dead after bed sharing with parents. I know how hard it is with breastfeeding a newborn, believe me - I've accidentally fallen asleep side lying nursing before too! But I absolutely can't advocate it as advice for someone else. Have you looked into an Arm's Reach cosleeper? I also used a Rock N Play, although they're not AAP approved.
Yes to trying nipple shields (they are different from nipple pads)! Also concern for thrush. I had it both times and treatment with antifungals stopped the shooting pain to the armpit.
Also for swaddles, use a swaddle with a tight velcro or zipper - like a Halo sleep sack with the swaddle pieces. If you use a swaddle sack it should be nearly impossible for her to get arms out.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 2:18 AM on July 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
Please do not sleep in a recliner with baby!! That's absolutely unsafe.
Really, the approach taff describes (baby flat on bed with nothing in crib) is the only one promoted by the AAP, CDC, and other health authorities. Bed sharing is associated with increased risk of suffocation. Many docs I know have horror stories of seeing newborns coming in dead after bed sharing with parents. I know how hard it is with breastfeeding a newborn, believe me - I've accidentally fallen asleep side lying nursing before too! But I absolutely can't advocate it as advice for someone else. Have you looked into an Arm's Reach cosleeper? I also used a Rock N Play, although they're not AAP approved.
Yes to trying nipple shields (they are different from nipple pads)! Also concern for thrush. I had it both times and treatment with antifungals stopped the shooting pain to the armpit.
Also for swaddles, use a swaddle with a tight velcro or zipper - like a Halo sleep sack with the swaddle pieces. If you use a swaddle sack it should be nearly impossible for her to get arms out.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 2:18 AM on July 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Six days is barely enough for your baby to have a chance to get organized and figure out which way is up. As she adjusts to life on the outside, it will improve.
My son loved nursing and had powerful suction. Jaws of Steel. It took 2 weeks to adjust and for it to not be horribly painful. Creams made no difference. After that, I loved nursing and was happy I stuck it out.
Call for help. If there's anybody who will come over to rock the baby so you can sleep for an hour or 2, call them. By all means, put her in the swing if that buys you half an hour of sleep. Having just had surgery, you need to heal, you need some sleep, so get any help you can. Music can be very helpful - lullabies, classical, you can find compilations on youtube. My grandson really responded to music when he couldn't sleep.
posted by theora55 at 3:28 AM on July 6, 2015
My son loved nursing and had powerful suction. Jaws of Steel. It took 2 weeks to adjust and for it to not be horribly painful. Creams made no difference. After that, I loved nursing and was happy I stuck it out.
Call for help. If there's anybody who will come over to rock the baby so you can sleep for an hour or 2, call them. By all means, put her in the swing if that buys you half an hour of sleep. Having just had surgery, you need to heal, you need some sleep, so get any help you can. Music can be very helpful - lullabies, classical, you can find compilations on youtube. My grandson really responded to music when he couldn't sleep.
posted by theora55 at 3:28 AM on July 6, 2015
treehorn: It’s a while since this was an issue for us, but at the time my reading of the published research was that the co-sleeping / baby suffocation link was associated either with very overweight mothers or drug/alcohol use by the parents. Remove either of those issues, and the risks are comparable with the risk of SIDS in an ordinary cot (lower in fact IIRC). Has more recent research changed that view?
OP: You know this of course, but the first couple of weeks are the hardest & it does get progressively easier (but oh, so, so slowly...)
Have you tried putting the baby to sleep in a sling? For a while, I would be able to get our eldest to sleep by going for a walk with him in an over-the-shoulder sling with my little finger servicing as a sucking nipple-replacement. Once asleep, I would come back to the house & very carefully transfer him to the bed with the sling, so that he was flat on his back. Maybe worth a try?
posted by pharm at 8:25 AM on July 6, 2015
OP: You know this of course, but the first couple of weeks are the hardest & it does get progressively easier (but oh, so, so slowly...)
Have you tried putting the baby to sleep in a sling? For a while, I would be able to get our eldest to sleep by going for a walk with him in an over-the-shoulder sling with my little finger servicing as a sucking nipple-replacement. Once asleep, I would come back to the house & very carefully transfer him to the bed with the sling, so that he was flat on his back. Maybe worth a try?
posted by pharm at 8:25 AM on July 6, 2015
I included links to the AAP and CDC where you can see they've specifically recommended never to bed share.
Here is a recent review from the AAP that includes all the citations, here are the relevant paragraphs below
"The AAP recommends the arrangement of room-sharing without bed-sharing, or having the infant sleep in the parents' room but on a separate sleep surface (crib or similar surface) close to the parents' bed. There is evidence that this arrangement decreases the risk of SIDS by as much as 50% 64,66,142,143 and is safer than bed-sharing 64,66,142,143 or solitary sleeping (when the infant is in a separate room).53,64 In addition, this arrangement is most likely to prevent suffocation, strangulation, and entrapment, which may occur when the infant is sleeping in the adult bed. Furthermore, room-sharing without bed-sharing allows close proximity to the infant, which facilitates feeding, comforting, and monitoring of the infant.
There Is Insufficient Evidence to Recommend Any Bed-Sharing Situation in the Hospital or at Home as Safe; Devices Promoted to Make Bed-Sharing “Safe” Are Not Recommended
It is acknowledged that there are some cultures for which bed-sharing is the norm and SIDS rates are low, but there are other cultures for which bed-sharing is the norm and SIDS rates are high. In general, the bed-sharing practiced in cultures with low SIDS rates is often different from that in the United States and other Western countries (eg, with firm mats on the floor, separate mat for the infant, and/or absence of soft bedding). It is statistically much more difficult to demonstrate safety (ie, no risk) in small subgroups. Breastfeeding mothers who do not smoke and have not consumed alcohol or arousal-altering medications or drugs are 1 such subgroup. Furthermore, not all risks associated with bed-sharing (eg, parental fatigue) can be controlled. The task force, therefore, believes that there is insufficient evidence to recommend any bed-sharing situation in the hospital or at home as safe. In addition, there is no evidence that devices marketed to make bed-sharing “safe” (eg, in-bed cosleepers) reduce the risk of SIDS or suffocation or are safe. Such devices, therefore, are not recommended.
There Are Specific Circumstances in Which Bed-Sharing Is Particularly Hazardous, and It Should Be Stressed to Parents That They Avoid the Following Situations at All Times
The task force emphasizes that certain circumstances greatly increase the risk with bed-sharing. Bed-sharing is especially dangerous when 1 or both parents are smokers (OR: 2.3–17.7)64,65,158,166,167; when the infant is younger than 3 months (OR: 4.7–10.4), regardless of parental smoking status64,66,143,158,168,169; when the infant is placed on excessively soft surfaces such as waterbeds, sofas, and armchairs (OR: 5.1–66.9)62,64,65,143,169; when soft bedding accessories such as pillows or blankets are used (OR: 2.8–4.1)62,170; when there are multiple bed-sharers (OR: 5.4)62; and when the parent has consumed alcohol (OR: 1.66).66,171 There is also a higher risk of SIDS when the infant is bed-sharing with someone who is not a parent (OR: 5.4).62"
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:09 AM on July 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Here is a recent review from the AAP that includes all the citations, here are the relevant paragraphs below
"The AAP recommends the arrangement of room-sharing without bed-sharing, or having the infant sleep in the parents' room but on a separate sleep surface (crib or similar surface) close to the parents' bed. There is evidence that this arrangement decreases the risk of SIDS by as much as 50% 64,66,142,143 and is safer than bed-sharing 64,66,142,143 or solitary sleeping (when the infant is in a separate room).53,64 In addition, this arrangement is most likely to prevent suffocation, strangulation, and entrapment, which may occur when the infant is sleeping in the adult bed. Furthermore, room-sharing without bed-sharing allows close proximity to the infant, which facilitates feeding, comforting, and monitoring of the infant.
There Is Insufficient Evidence to Recommend Any Bed-Sharing Situation in the Hospital or at Home as Safe; Devices Promoted to Make Bed-Sharing “Safe” Are Not Recommended
It is acknowledged that there are some cultures for which bed-sharing is the norm and SIDS rates are low, but there are other cultures for which bed-sharing is the norm and SIDS rates are high. In general, the bed-sharing practiced in cultures with low SIDS rates is often different from that in the United States and other Western countries (eg, with firm mats on the floor, separate mat for the infant, and/or absence of soft bedding). It is statistically much more difficult to demonstrate safety (ie, no risk) in small subgroups. Breastfeeding mothers who do not smoke and have not consumed alcohol or arousal-altering medications or drugs are 1 such subgroup. Furthermore, not all risks associated with bed-sharing (eg, parental fatigue) can be controlled. The task force, therefore, believes that there is insufficient evidence to recommend any bed-sharing situation in the hospital or at home as safe. In addition, there is no evidence that devices marketed to make bed-sharing “safe” (eg, in-bed cosleepers) reduce the risk of SIDS or suffocation or are safe. Such devices, therefore, are not recommended.
There Are Specific Circumstances in Which Bed-Sharing Is Particularly Hazardous, and It Should Be Stressed to Parents That They Avoid the Following Situations at All Times
The task force emphasizes that certain circumstances greatly increase the risk with bed-sharing. Bed-sharing is especially dangerous when 1 or both parents are smokers (OR: 2.3–17.7)64,65,158,166,167; when the infant is younger than 3 months (OR: 4.7–10.4), regardless of parental smoking status64,66,143,158,168,169; when the infant is placed on excessively soft surfaces such as waterbeds, sofas, and armchairs (OR: 5.1–66.9)62,64,65,143,169; when soft bedding accessories such as pillows or blankets are used (OR: 2.8–4.1)62,170; when there are multiple bed-sharers (OR: 5.4)62; and when the parent has consumed alcohol (OR: 1.66).66,171 There is also a higher risk of SIDS when the infant is bed-sharing with someone who is not a parent (OR: 5.4).62"
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:09 AM on July 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you are bed sharing ( and I think it's fine), then refrain from swaddling your little bud.
posted by exois at 10:25 AM on July 6, 2015
posted by exois at 10:25 AM on July 6, 2015
God I remember that, literally, toe curling pain.
Just wanted to say that my doc (actually two different doc's) were reluctant to prescribe the much lauded (on the internet anyway) nipple cream. But said I could mix up some nystantin (anti-fungal), hydrocortisone and neosporin and use that. It REALLY helped, and easy. I can't remember if nystantin is prescription or not, but it would probably be an easy ask. I still use that mix on occasion when the kids get a persistent drool or diaper rash and it is great.
And reading your description, my first thought was also that you have oversupply, which is causing the hard nipple and the shallow latch, which in turn will cause increased irritation. And if you've already got trauma, hurts like hell.
And nthing the vibrating bouncers.
Oh and if you decide you need a bigger mattress and have any thoughts about cosleeping, I'd highly recommend a memory foam mattress, on those your body doesn't create a valley that babies could roll into. We bedshare (though they were mostly in bouncies/cosleepers for the first couple months) and it's always felt really safe until we went on vacation and slept on a regular spring mattress. I didn't sleep a wink.
posted by pennypiper at 11:18 AM on July 6, 2015
Just wanted to say that my doc (actually two different doc's) were reluctant to prescribe the much lauded (on the internet anyway) nipple cream. But said I could mix up some nystantin (anti-fungal), hydrocortisone and neosporin and use that. It REALLY helped, and easy. I can't remember if nystantin is prescription or not, but it would probably be an easy ask. I still use that mix on occasion when the kids get a persistent drool or diaper rash and it is great.
And reading your description, my first thought was also that you have oversupply, which is causing the hard nipple and the shallow latch, which in turn will cause increased irritation. And if you've already got trauma, hurts like hell.
And nthing the vibrating bouncers.
Oh and if you decide you need a bigger mattress and have any thoughts about cosleeping, I'd highly recommend a memory foam mattress, on those your body doesn't create a valley that babies could roll into. We bedshare (though they were mostly in bouncies/cosleepers for the first couple months) and it's always felt really safe until we went on vacation and slept on a regular spring mattress. I didn't sleep a wink.
posted by pennypiper at 11:18 AM on July 6, 2015
We supplemented with formula for the first month with my second baby and when I felt stronger I went back to exclusive breast feeding. We did one feed a day of formula for that first month. I also had a c-section but no pain ( with either my incision or with latching). I'm only mentioning my experience to let you know that it can be possible to give yourself a bit of a break and then go back to the heavy work of exclusive breast feeding. Be kind to yourself. Figure out what works best for you and your baby. Also the hospital where I gave birth only did arms free swaddling.
posted by biggreenplant at 12:35 PM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by biggreenplant at 12:35 PM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh boy. I'm so sorry. The first week is so so awful.
Regarding the nipple confusion, are you sure that's what it is? The midwives and lactation consultants (multiple!) I had to see to get my daughter feeding successfully all said they could count on one hand the times they'd seen genuine nipple confusion keeping a baby from going back to the breast. One told me the advice against pacifiers is more to make sure you're not using it to delay feeds and thus inadvertently affecting your supply, not because of confusion. YMMV.
My daughter was tongue tied. At first they had me start pumping exclusively and supplementing with formula. I was incredibly pro-exclusive breastfeeding and I admit I had a freak out over this, but my baby simply wasn't getting enough to eat the way things were going, so it was worth the switch to get her gaining weight and give my nipples a chance to heal. It was hard, but it worked. A couple weeks of that, they had me switch to using nipple shields, and I was able to cut out the formula within 48 hours. Once her tongue tie was fixed we were back to EBF without shields within a few days. It was so so important to have had that time pumping to let my nipples heal. Transitioning to and from the shields took a few days of both of us building up confidence, but we got there and it was such a relief. Maybe talk to your LC about those options?
Good luck. This is so hard.
posted by olinerd at 3:34 PM on July 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Regarding the nipple confusion, are you sure that's what it is? The midwives and lactation consultants (multiple!) I had to see to get my daughter feeding successfully all said they could count on one hand the times they'd seen genuine nipple confusion keeping a baby from going back to the breast. One told me the advice against pacifiers is more to make sure you're not using it to delay feeds and thus inadvertently affecting your supply, not because of confusion. YMMV.
My daughter was tongue tied. At first they had me start pumping exclusively and supplementing with formula. I was incredibly pro-exclusive breastfeeding and I admit I had a freak out over this, but my baby simply wasn't getting enough to eat the way things were going, so it was worth the switch to get her gaining weight and give my nipples a chance to heal. It was hard, but it worked. A couple weeks of that, they had me switch to using nipple shields, and I was able to cut out the formula within 48 hours. Once her tongue tie was fixed we were back to EBF without shields within a few days. It was so so important to have had that time pumping to let my nipples heal. Transitioning to and from the shields took a few days of both of us building up confidence, but we got there and it was such a relief. Maybe talk to your LC about those options?
Good luck. This is so hard.
posted by olinerd at 3:34 PM on July 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by lizbunny at 4:54 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]