Was I raped? I can't believe I'm asking this.

June 30, 2015 1:54 AM

I can't believe I'm going to write about this, but it won't go away. For years I dated a woman several years my junior. 29 year-old man here. It was a very manipulative, damaging relationship, which both of us exerting control over the relationship in various ways, from ignoring each other, to her hanging her ex-boyfriend over me (he was threatening to hurt me, causing me to wonder at the time if he was on the side somehow), to lying and emotional outbursts.

She may very well have been raped by her ex, but went on to have sex with him uncountable times. In our relationship, she had intimacy issues that I tried to resolve. I even went to therapy for myself, but she refused to go or come with me. She would frequently go between refusing to even let me kiss her (good night for instance), to demanding we have sex. Often, she'd strip down and demand sex and I would just hold her, sometimes gently restraining her from getting on top of me and tell her gently everything was all right. No pressure to be intimate or have sex. She'd often cry and go to sleep. This happened several, several times, and we didn't have sex for the first two years of our relationship. Finally, it culminated in a final confrontation. She was on top of me, we were making out, and she took off her clothes and pulled down my pants. I held my hands over my genitals and asked her if she really wanted to do this, if she loved me, if she saw us married, things we had discussed at great length by this time, and things she knew were important to me in a sexual relationship. She demanded I move my hands several times and when I finally relented, she had sex with me. It was very unenjoyable, (she told me I could cum inside her, because her ex did a bunch without protection), I eventually pulled out without any ejaculation and that was that. When I asked her if she loved me, she said I don't know and stormed out of my house.

The more I thought about it, the more I wondered if this constitutes rape. It probably doesn't, because she probably couldn't overpower me physically, so I moved my hands didn't I? But I've been broken for two years now, unable to engage intimacy with anyone based on this single event. We broke up shortly thereafter, when she revealed she was indeed seeing her ex-boyfriend at the same time but she promised "not having sex." Afterwards I simply tried to remove her from my life and move on. I felt like she had unresolved issues from her previous relationship and gave her a pass. And given what to me seems to be a complicated political environment regarding rape culture and men, I haven't talked to a soul, not even my therapist.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (25 answers total)

I'm so very sorry this happened to you.
For what it's worth: you have permission from this internet stranger to call it rape.
You said no, she kept pushing, you never actually consented, you just relented. Rape does not require physical violence to be A Thing That Happened; she had sex with you (sex was being done to you or at you) against your wishes, and you had expressed those wishes. You were pushed and coerced.

If you find that it doesn't help you to call it rape, you might call it sexual assault. Whatever works best for you.

It might be worth trying to talk about this with your therapist. If they can't deal with it and be supportive, they're not a good fit for you and I would personally say they're not a good therapist. And since it won't go away, you need and deserve to get help.
May you find what you need to deal with this.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:27 AM on June 30, 2015 [18 favorites]

It probably doesn't, because she probably couldn't overpower me physically, so I moved my hands didn't I?

There are more ways just physical force to make someone do something they don't want to do.

It sounds like you didn't want to have sex with her, that you made it clear several times, and that she persisted with increasing force (physical and emotional) until you relented. This is certainly not fully consensual sex, and I can totally understand why it would have such lasting effects on your life.

I'd encourage you to speak to a professional about it. If it is helpful for you to call this a rape, then do so. Perhaps in a strictly legal sense some people would argue otherwise, but the important thing is to frame it in the way that will best help you move on. Telling yourself that it was not rape doesn't seem to have helped so far.
posted by twirlypen at 2:35 AM on June 30, 2015 [6 favorites]

I think regardless of precise legal definition, what she did to you was absolutely wrong.

I am sorry she put you through that, and no wonder getting intimate with others is hard after being treated that way.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 2:35 AM on June 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

I am so sorry that this awful thing happened to you, and that it is still causing you so much pain. It does sound like rape to me. Being physically overpowered is not a necessary criterion; she coerced you into having sex after you expressed significant verbal and physical objection. But it doesn't really matter whether the average person would label it with that word. You are the one who survived the experience, and you get to choose how to frame the event going forward. I'm a survivor of a not-dissimilar situation, and I choose to use the terms "sexual assault" and "sexual abuse" because I find it easier to cope with the events when I don't use the word "rape", which, as you've noted, carries a lot of societal baggage.

If your therapist is someone you trust, with whom you have a good rapport, I think you could possibly really benefit from telling him/her. After my assault, I didn't speak a word of it to anyone for over a year. When I finally told my therapist, even though her response was not perfect and the interaction didn't absolve me of all my bad feelings, the feeling of beginning to divest myself of such a toxic burden on my psyche was really a huge and necessary step forward.

That's what was best for me, though. If you aren't ready to discuss it with anyone, that is absolutely your decision to make.

You sound like a wonderful person and I wish you the best of luck with healing and finding peace.
posted by Pizzarina Sbarro at 2:41 AM on June 30, 2015 [6 favorites]

I am friends with a guy who had a similar experience to you when he was younger (19 - early 20s) with a woman and for what it's worth he does label it rape, but he has sympathy for the woman who was not at all well when she assaulted him. It's complicated. He's also engaged in about a decade of different types of therapy and is in a pretty good place now where he can talk about it with trusted people. I think he would probably tell you that it ultimately won't matter what term you use to describe it as long as what you call it helps you work past it in a way that's healthy for you.

Part of the deal with rape culture is the horrible acceptance that it and sexual assault in general is just the way it is, just something that happens. If you want to object to that on a personal level by working through your experience with your therapist I think that could be a good thing. There are also location specific resources for people who have been sexually assaulted like groups and hotlines and networks to connect you to issue-specific counselors in your area, which you can fairly easily google yourself since you're anonymous. It can be really hard and scary to google things like that, though, but I think in just writing this question you've shown a lot of bravery and personal awareness.

Men can get hurt, and men are allowed to be scared, and you're also allowed to ask for help and to seek different ways to help yourself on your own schedule. If your interactions with your therapist are part of what's making you wary of bringing it up, time for a new therapist.
posted by Mizu at 4:24 AM on June 30, 2015 [9 favorites]

You were molested more than raped. Raped is an act of violence. You were not overpowered. But, you were coerced into a sexual act that you did not want. In that moment, she took away your power. She turned something intimate and beautiful into something ugly and mean. It was all about her. I can't imagine someone going through something like that and not coming out traumatized. You are justified in your emotions.

What you described sounds like she was very young and acting out the trauma that her ex-boyfriend did to her. She was too young and too broken. That doesn't make what she did right but it can help you for future relationships. Never, ever, date anyone that young or that broken again.

You can get through this. Date the opposite of her to avoid PTSD moments and continue with your counseling. Don't let her ex-boyfriend's abuse define your life.
posted by myselfasme at 5:22 AM on June 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm really sorry this happened to you. It wasn't your fault and pushing someone to have sex when they don't want to is one way that abusers coerce people into having sex against their will. In my opinion, you were forced to engage in sexual contact without your consent. I was okay with calling what happened to me rape but if you want to name it (and you don't have to, if you'd rather not), you can choose whatever term you're most comfortable with (and that may change over time, as well).

I think you were courageous in asking this question. I understand why you were hesitant and why it's taken so long to even wonder what all this means. I really understand the not telling anyone thing.

I think you deserve a chance to see if therapy will work for you, but if you're not ready yet or need to work up to it, that's okay. You can talk to the people at RAINN if you need someone to talk to sooner or more interactively than here. They have a phone line and a chat and you can stay anonymous.

The best thing you can do for yourself right now is be gentle and understanding with yourself. Treat yourself the way you'd treat a friend this happened to. Healing is a process, and everyone is different - there's no right way to do it. I completely agree with Mizu about allowing yourself to feel scared if that's how you feel, or angry or whatever. I agree that it's okay follow your own schedule of what seems right and ask for help.

There are therapists who specialize in treating sexual trauma. If you're in the US, you could check the Psychology Today website to see if someone is available in your area.

I wish you all the best. If you ever feel like talking, I'm here.
posted by i feel possessed at 5:36 AM on June 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

I was raped by a woman many years ago now. I've only just gotten to the point of being able to call it that without feeling like I was letting myself down somehow.

If it helps you to call it rape, call it rape. Don't worry about the legal definition. Also, I can't disagree more with myselfasme's assertion that "You were molested more than raped. Raped is an act of violence". Rape doesn't have to be violent, nor do you have to be overpowered. You were coerced, and that too counts as rape in my book. Rape is one of those things for which there isn't a decent bright-line test, but if there were it would be around free-will consent to sex.

Get some help - the right therapist will help you tremendously (I say therapist rather than counsellor because this is a deep-seated issue for you and it will require more work than counselling can necessarily provide (talking from my own experience here)).

Good luck and much love to you. I'm so sorry that this happened to you and I hope that you can find your way forward from here.
posted by yasp at 5:38 AM on June 30, 2015 [27 favorites]

There's such a load of stigma around how men can't Really be raped because they're stronger/they always want it/a real man wouldn't let this happen etc. etc.
I'm sorry you were raped and also that the society we live in makes it harder for you to heal.

Also, it's okay to have complicated feelings about her. She doesn't have to be evil to do an evil thing. All the feelings you have and will have about this are understandable.
posted by Omnomnom at 6:06 AM on June 30, 2015 [9 favorites]

You had a traumatic sexual experience that you didn't want and didn't consent to. I think that what matters is how you deal with this, and what helps you. So if it helps you to call it rape, yeah, it was rape. If that's not helpful, then you don't have to call it rape.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:06 AM on June 30, 2015

Rape isn't always about being held at gun or knifepoint in a dark alley. Rapists often do not sit in their homes plotting how they will rape their next victim. In fact, many rapists are shocked when confronted by their victims because they do not consider what they have done as "rape"... because rape is a violent, premeditated act, right? Not always.

She doesn't have to be a capital-R-Rapist to have raped you. If you were to talk to her about it (and I am not suggesting you do, let me be clear), I would imagine she would be shocked to be called a rapist. But nevertheless, she raped you.

I truly do feel pity for this woman, but that doesn't mean you can't call her a rapist. I often feel pity for those who commit crimes because they usually have problems of their own, but it doesn't mean they didn't do it. Don't let scary stereotypes of criminals in dark alleys keep you from recognizing that what she did was wrong.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:30 AM on June 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

Rape might be something that one could quibble about.

But unquestionably Sexual Abuse.
posted by French Fry at 6:42 AM on June 30, 2015

It doesn't matter what anyone else would call it. If you experienced it as rape and it's helpful for you to work it through in that context, do so. Analyzing whether it should "technically" be considered rape is unlikely to be as useful to you as letting yourself accept your feelings about it.
posted by metasarah at 7:15 AM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm terribly sorry this happened.

yasp is exactly right, and I'll offer another reason for this:

Rape is one of those things for which there isn't a decent bright-line test, but if there were it would be around free-will consent to sex.

This goes back to the "fight, flight, or freeze" responses to danger/fear. From your description, it sounds like fight or flight options would have required you to overpower her. You couldn't have known how things might escalate if you'd used even the minimum amount of physical force necessary to stop her, and besides, you seem to be a decent human being who didn't want to use force. Freezing was the last remaining option, and many men, women and children have been raped because fighting wasn't or didn't seem like an option. The fact remains that you were coerced to the point of facing these options, and even in the face of something dreadful, you went the route that seemed least violent at the time.

Needless to say, this was violence against your psyche (at least), but you couldn't have known that at the time, and it is absolutely not your fault. If you're not comfortable calling it rape, that's entirely okay, but if that's how it felt to you, you are by no means wrong to use that terminology.

Again, I'm so very sorry, and I agree that you're on the right track. Sometimes we need to confide in one or a few people (and/or internet strangers), and then talk about it in therapy. That's okay. Take this at your own speed and with your own language, and know that the more you do, the more you will find other survivors (male and female) who have some understanding of what you've been through.

I wish you peace and relief and healing.
posted by whoiam at 7:19 AM on June 30, 2015 [11 favorites]

This goes back to the "fight, flight, or freeze" responses to danger/fear.

I want to second this. Freezing is a real, documented, scientifically researched response to trauma.
posted by Juliet Banana at 7:27 AM on June 30, 2015 [11 favorites]

You also have permission from this internet stranger to call it rape. Actually, I'm surprised that others here are suggesting that it's not perfectly clear that that's the right word for it. It doesn't even seem like a close call to me. You did not at any time enthusiastically consent to this. You were coerced into having sex with someone. That is rape.

I'm so sorry that this happened to you and that you're suffering. I hope putting this word on it helps rather than hurts.
posted by Hildegarde at 8:36 AM on June 30, 2015 [5 favorites]

You did not consent to sexual activity, you gave in. Not a single person here would be quibbling about definitions if the genders in your question were reversed.

So. Whatever definition you prefer to apply in order to work through how you feel, go with that. She refused to listen to your refusal of consent, is the key thing.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:51 AM on June 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

Does this match your particular jurisdiction's legal definition for rape? It might, it might not. Given how seldom even victims of what is absolutely, unambiguously legally rape are able to find justice and support through the legal system, though, I can tell you right now that it doesn't make one lick of difference and doesn't matter either way in terms of the impact on the victim and the outrage committed by the perpetrator.
Is what your ex did to you morally, ethically, and emotionally equivalent to what non-violent rapists do to their victims? Yes. Absolutely.

You can can conceptualize however or call it whatever helps you the most or feels most correct, but regardless, what happened you was horrible and wrong. I'm so sorry she did that to you, and I hope this Ask is the first step on a path to healing and recovery.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 9:40 AM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

It was rape. You were forced emotionally to have sex.

this is happening a lot more than you think, so do not think you are alone. There was a thread in ask reddit some months back about men raped by women. It was exactly what you'd expect. I got drunk and fell asleep and I woke up and this woman from the party was on top of me and I was penetrating her. Dozens of dudes.

People force sex on one another all the time. The focus has historically been on men for obvious reasons, but as we work towards equality and womens' sexual agency you will see this situation play out a lot more. It is sadly normal and you should acknowledge how hurt you are and how you were traumatized.

I suggest therapy.

Raped is an act of violence.

Not always. Legally, it centers around a lack of consent, so OP, be clear, you were raped.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:46 AM on June 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

More than anything else, I would encourage you to adopt and embrace the language that is meaningful and resonant to you personally. Whatever gives you strength, whatever helps you take back your power and autonomy. "Rape" certainly encompasses all manner of non-consensual and coercive sexual contact in my book, but I wouldn't dare insist or imply that it must (or even should) do the same in yours. In any case, please know that you can call 1-800-656-4763 (National Sexual Assault Hotline) or visit online.rainn.org any time to speak anonymously and confidentially with trained support providers and get referrals to therapeutic services near you.

In addition to reaching out to RAINN, I would recommend reading this piece, because you might relate to large portions of what is discussed: That Stayed: A Conversation on Rape and Wanting for Words. It's all about being terrified of plainly using the word "rape" to describe your experiences and struggling to find the language to articulate deep-seated trauma that involves sexual assault and abuse. In part:

How can I understand my rawness and fragility in these moments without letting it define me? There don't seem to be any helpful answers in the popular social narrative of rape; rape is painted as the most violent, violating experience anyone could be forced to endure. You'd be better off dead than raped, we are told. It is all or nothing: complete devastation or unproblematic acceptance. And since that is not how I feel about my experiences, it is as though there is no space left to set these moments aside and examine them quietly for myself.

[...]

Being unable to use to word "rape," however, means I'm struggling to find the language to vocalize these experiences at all. I am left with phrases that gesture obliquely toward "bad experiences" or being "taken advantage of." But, as I said, what is most frightening and frustrating about this inability to parse the ambiguously-termed components of experience is that I worry I am contributing to a culture that refuses to stand up and call rape what it is.

There's also this piece from The Toast that goes on to describe the profoundly damaging myth of the Idealized Rape Narrative. So many people who don't fit into that narrative are left feeling unworthy of help, spinning in self-doubt and "why didn't I just...?"

I'm so sorry this happened to you, and I hope all of the resources and advice offered here can help you find a path forward to guidance, help, healing, and peace. You are not alone, you are never alone.
posted by divined by radio at 11:03 AM on June 30, 2015 [3 favorites]

If you did not consent, then it was rape. You do not have to say no for it to be rape. There does not have to be violence for it to be rape. Rape is when there is lack of consent. Saying "yes" when you feel you can't say no does not make it consensual.

If you'd done to her what she did to you, folk here would have their pitchforks out in a jiffy and be calling you a rapist. Call it what you want to call it, but I would be calling it rape if it happened to me.
posted by Solomon at 3:02 PM on June 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm so sorry you experienced this. As you move forward and heal, I'd like to share Emily Nagoski's book "Come As You Are." Ignore the chintzy cover, it's a good read based on solid science. It's about arousal, desire and the assumptions & expectations surrounding sex. This book really helped me untangle some complicated feels about my own assault... and the lover who assaulted me. It's slated for ladies but the conceptual framework is for everyone.

I especially encourage you to check out her passages on freeze response (p 114-17), arousal nonconcordance during rape (p 204-05), and how natural attachment behaviors like sex can go off the rails in unhealthy relationships (p 134-147).
posted by fritillary at 4:19 PM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Like a lot of people I would absolutely call this rape, if you came to me with this story. If that doesn't help you as a name then don't use it.

For what it's worth I've had male friends joke about this kind of thing happening to them, and my instinctive response has always been 'are you trying to tell me you were raped?' because nothing about that description is consensual.

I am sorry this happened to you. It is possibly to understand where your rapist was when they hurt you, it's possible to have compassion for their past, and none of that elides what they did.
posted by geek anachronism at 5:58 PM on June 30, 2015

Another internet stranger and victim of a similar coercive rape in the context of a romantic relationship - yes, you were raped. I am so, so very sorry - both that it's happened to you and that it's caused you so much pain. I would encourage you to talk about it with your therapist if you feel it would be safe to do so.

It's very confusing when you love someone and be in the situation where you might have wanted to have sex with them under other circumstances, but don't want to when they forced it on you. Trying to navigate the minefield that creates is incredibly difficult.

If you would ever like an ear or some sympathy, my memail is open.
posted by Deoridhe at 7:09 PM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

One thing I don't see addressed in the responses is anything of what you said about manipulation in the relationship including words about yourself in controlling behavior. You aren't specific as to whether you participated in lying and emotional outbursts...... which leaves me wondering if perhaps you carry some guilt about the way you interacted with her, guilt that could make you think you "caused" her to go off on you that night. Let me clarify that I absolutely do not think you have any responsibility for what she did.

I say this because I fear it may interfere with your ability to heal for yourself for what was done to you. Solomon said a very powerful thing in suggesting to look it at her behavior as if you had done that to her - how would you think of yourself? Would it be as a lover? or an abuser? From everything you've said you have a healthy moral compass. I pray for you to find what you need to heal and that you may find an a good hearted woman to fill your life with joy, in and out of bed.
posted by Jim_Jam at 8:08 PM on June 30, 2015