How do I tell my drama queen roommate that she needs to move out?
June 19, 2015 10:33 AM Subscribe
I'm afraid to ask my roommate to move out because there's a good chance she will make my life a living hell. What's the best way to go about it?
My roommate is a complete drama queen, and gets very defensive when asked to clean up after herself and her friends, help out around the house or not have friends over in common areas when the rest of us are sleeping (so, after midnight on weekdays.) If I tell her these things she will tell me that I can't complain because I did something similar once, or she will badger me about why I'm so bothered and refuse to accept my explanations until I have to leave the house. Or worst case scenario, she'll start screaming and cussing me out until she gets tired and locks herself in her room.
I've grown pretty sick of this. Talking with her doesn't seem to work as she keeps repeating the same things over and over again, and we do have a basic roommate agreement laying out the house rules, which she completely ignores 90% of the time. I dread coming home and being around her, or seeing the latest mess she's made of the kitchen or the dining room.
I've decided to give her 30 days notice and ask her to move out, probably sometime in the next two weeks. I'm the only one on the lease and she's subletting from me with the landlord's permission, so I'm within my rights to do this. However, I'm dreading her reaction- I'm expecting way more screaming and swearing. Should I tell her why I need her to move out? Should I say it's just not working out anymore? I would love it if someone has a script for this like Miko's breakup script.
Also, we share some mutual friends (hence why she became my roommate- our friends vouched for her) and I'm expecting her to try and get them to blackball me. That I can deal with, though it'll suck. But what if she doesn't move out after the 30 days is up? What if she causes damage to the house out of revenge? And should I wait to find a new roommate until she's gone?
We live in AZ, if that's at all relevant.
My roommate is a complete drama queen, and gets very defensive when asked to clean up after herself and her friends, help out around the house or not have friends over in common areas when the rest of us are sleeping (so, after midnight on weekdays.) If I tell her these things she will tell me that I can't complain because I did something similar once, or she will badger me about why I'm so bothered and refuse to accept my explanations until I have to leave the house. Or worst case scenario, she'll start screaming and cussing me out until she gets tired and locks herself in her room.
I've grown pretty sick of this. Talking with her doesn't seem to work as she keeps repeating the same things over and over again, and we do have a basic roommate agreement laying out the house rules, which she completely ignores 90% of the time. I dread coming home and being around her, or seeing the latest mess she's made of the kitchen or the dining room.
I've decided to give her 30 days notice and ask her to move out, probably sometime in the next two weeks. I'm the only one on the lease and she's subletting from me with the landlord's permission, so I'm within my rights to do this. However, I'm dreading her reaction- I'm expecting way more screaming and swearing. Should I tell her why I need her to move out? Should I say it's just not working out anymore? I would love it if someone has a script for this like Miko's breakup script.
Also, we share some mutual friends (hence why she became my roommate- our friends vouched for her) and I'm expecting her to try and get them to blackball me. That I can deal with, though it'll suck. But what if she doesn't move out after the 30 days is up? What if she causes damage to the house out of revenge? And should I wait to find a new roommate until she's gone?
We live in AZ, if that's at all relevant.
Photograph the apartment and all your stuff when she's not home before you give her notice. Secure your valuable belongings before you tell her and keep them secured as the next month passes. I am assuming you can lock up your room and electronics/valuables.
Tell your landlord you are giving her notice and have him ready to change the locks if after 30 days she refuses to leave. Serve her notice in writing (email or text) as well as verbally. something you can keep a record of. You can also record a voice memo of the conversation you have with her using an app on your phone. I have found this useful when dealing with people whose main way of interacting is lying and shifting blame. The phone will pick it up even sitting in your pocket or on a bookshelf or table nearby.
Don't engage in a debate or conversation about why she has to move. Just keep repeating "Sharing an apartment is not working out. I'd like you to move out. We are not compatible roommates. I am giving you 30 days notice so you can find another place to live." If she screams and swears, let her, and just remain passive and calm. Leave the room, or the apartment if you need to, if it's out of control. "I'm not comfortable being spoken to that way. You and your belongings need to be out of the apartment by date X. I am leaving now, I'll come home when you have calmed down."
Use her security deposit as her last month (do not attempt to collect anything from her after you give notice, since it sounds like she won't give you anything anyhow.)
If she trashes your apartment you can sue her in small claims or civil court for damaging that stuff you photographed before she knew she had to leave. Even if you don't win in court, the filing will come up when someone background checks her at a rental agency/dumps her name into an electronic search in the civil court website, possibly saving another person from experiencing what you are right now.
posted by zdravo at 10:49 AM on June 19, 2015 [16 favorites]
Tell your landlord you are giving her notice and have him ready to change the locks if after 30 days she refuses to leave. Serve her notice in writing (email or text) as well as verbally. something you can keep a record of. You can also record a voice memo of the conversation you have with her using an app on your phone. I have found this useful when dealing with people whose main way of interacting is lying and shifting blame. The phone will pick it up even sitting in your pocket or on a bookshelf or table nearby.
Don't engage in a debate or conversation about why she has to move. Just keep repeating "Sharing an apartment is not working out. I'd like you to move out. We are not compatible roommates. I am giving you 30 days notice so you can find another place to live." If she screams and swears, let her, and just remain passive and calm. Leave the room, or the apartment if you need to, if it's out of control. "I'm not comfortable being spoken to that way. You and your belongings need to be out of the apartment by date X. I am leaving now, I'll come home when you have calmed down."
Use her security deposit as her last month (do not attempt to collect anything from her after you give notice, since it sounds like she won't give you anything anyhow.)
If she trashes your apartment you can sue her in small claims or civil court for damaging that stuff you photographed before she knew she had to leave. Even if you don't win in court, the filing will come up when someone background checks her at a rental agency/dumps her name into an electronic search in the civil court website, possibly saving another person from experiencing what you are right now.
posted by zdravo at 10:49 AM on June 19, 2015 [16 favorites]
Use her security deposit as her last month
This is actually not legal in Arizona (or any state, so far as I know). The deposit can only be used upon termination of tenancy, not prior to termination of tenancy.
posted by saeculorum at 10:57 AM on June 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is actually not legal in Arizona (or any state, so far as I know). The deposit can only be used upon termination of tenancy, not prior to termination of tenancy.
posted by saeculorum at 10:57 AM on June 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was involved in a sort of similar situation with a nightmare roommate once. How we approached it:
--Trying to frame the situation in terms of her moving out being better for everyone -- i.e. "It seems pretty clear that the current living situation isn't make anyone happy, and is stressful for everyone."
--Eventually (after much drama), essentially paying her off by offering to help pay moving expenses (around $400 for movers).
The latter is not necessarily something you should have to do morally, but it may help smooth ruffled feathers and be worth it in the end.
Tell your landlord you are giving her notice and have him ready to change the locks if after 30 days she refuses to leave.
This is definitely illegal in pretty much every jurisdiction I know of, regardless of who's technically on the lease. I would consult with your landlord about the best strategies for dealing with this, IF he is a hands on sort of person who seems likely to want to help you (and if you have a good relationship), but certainly don't try and insist that he do illegal things or you will look like the crazy one. And, some landlords really could not care less as long as they're getting paid rent every month, so your mileage may vary here.
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:58 AM on June 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
--Trying to frame the situation in terms of her moving out being better for everyone -- i.e. "It seems pretty clear that the current living situation isn't make anyone happy, and is stressful for everyone."
--Eventually (after much drama), essentially paying her off by offering to help pay moving expenses (around $400 for movers).
The latter is not necessarily something you should have to do morally, but it may help smooth ruffled feathers and be worth it in the end.
Tell your landlord you are giving her notice and have him ready to change the locks if after 30 days she refuses to leave.
This is definitely illegal in pretty much every jurisdiction I know of, regardless of who's technically on the lease. I would consult with your landlord about the best strategies for dealing with this, IF he is a hands on sort of person who seems likely to want to help you (and if you have a good relationship), but certainly don't try and insist that he do illegal things or you will look like the crazy one. And, some landlords really could not care less as long as they're getting paid rent every month, so your mileage may vary here.
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:58 AM on June 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, since you mention "rest of us", I'm guessing there are multiple roommates in this situation? I think in that case it can help to present a unified front so that no one person has to be the "bad guy" who then becomes the target of all drama and angst. Could also help spread moving expenses around if you do want to pay her to move.
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:01 AM on June 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:01 AM on June 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
A lawyer can help you with a script that complies with the laws of your jurisdiction. Information about finding a lawyer, including free and low-cost legal resources, is available at the MeFi Wiki Get a lawyer page.
It sounds like you have a lot of questions related to legal issues concerning a proper notice to quit, eviction and damage to the apartment. You may also have legal questions related to safety issues and your options if your roommate's behavior escalates past screaming at you. The American Bar Association offers several links to Arizona legal resources, and you (and/or your landlord) may want to at minimum seek a consultation with an attorney for unbundled legal services, so you can avoid making a potentially costly mistake if advice like this turns out to be incorrect:
Serve her notice in writing (email or text) as well as verbally.
If you screw up the notice by failing to comply with the laws of your jurisdiction, you may be dealing with this roommate for a much longer time than if you get the notice right the first time. Also, you can talk to a lawyer about whether this idea is legal in your jurisdiction:
You can also record a voice memo of the conversation you have with her using an app on your phone.
In some jurisdictions, recording people without their consent may be a criminal offense. An attorney in Arizona can provide legal advice on how to comply with the laws that apply to your specific situation.
posted by Little Dawn at 11:04 AM on June 19, 2015 [15 favorites]
It sounds like you have a lot of questions related to legal issues concerning a proper notice to quit, eviction and damage to the apartment. You may also have legal questions related to safety issues and your options if your roommate's behavior escalates past screaming at you. The American Bar Association offers several links to Arizona legal resources, and you (and/or your landlord) may want to at minimum seek a consultation with an attorney for unbundled legal services, so you can avoid making a potentially costly mistake if advice like this turns out to be incorrect:
Serve her notice in writing (email or text) as well as verbally.
If you screw up the notice by failing to comply with the laws of your jurisdiction, you may be dealing with this roommate for a much longer time than if you get the notice right the first time. Also, you can talk to a lawyer about whether this idea is legal in your jurisdiction:
You can also record a voice memo of the conversation you have with her using an app on your phone.
In some jurisdictions, recording people without their consent may be a criminal offense. An attorney in Arizona can provide legal advice on how to comply with the laws that apply to your specific situation.
posted by Little Dawn at 11:04 AM on June 19, 2015 [15 favorites]
Have you considered YOU moving to a new apartment, one that doesn't include her?
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 11:15 AM on June 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 11:15 AM on June 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
Understand the rules of subleasing.
Give her notice, in writing and verbally. No negoation. "The situation is not working. You have X days to move per the lease agreement." Then walk away.
Disengage as much as possible.
Be prepared to call 911 if she becomes abusive, let her know this
posted by edgeways at 11:30 AM on June 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Give her notice, in writing and verbally. No negoation. "The situation is not working. You have X days to move per the lease agreement." Then walk away.
Disengage as much as possible.
Be prepared to call 911 if she becomes abusive, let her know this
posted by edgeways at 11:30 AM on June 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I went though something similar, and my drama-queen-roommate ended up talking trash (and lying about me) to my landlord, mutual friends, and probably also everyone who sat next to her in the bus. This caused a lot of annoying, unnecessary trouble. Also, she left all of her garbage in my basement when she moved.
I would recommend you to have witnesses for everything you discuss and agree on. Get everything on paper, and take pictures of the apartment before she has a chance to cause any damage, like zdravo suggested. Don't be afraid to involve your landlord, it is also in their interest that this move goes smoothly, with no damage done to anyone or anything.
posted by ipsative at 2:05 PM on June 19, 2015
I would recommend you to have witnesses for everything you discuss and agree on. Get everything on paper, and take pictures of the apartment before she has a chance to cause any damage, like zdravo suggested. Don't be afraid to involve your landlord, it is also in their interest that this move goes smoothly, with no damage done to anyone or anything.
posted by ipsative at 2:05 PM on June 19, 2015
Mod note: This is a followup from the asker.
Our roommate agreement states that it's a month to month rental. It also says I can ask her to leave as long as I give at least 30 day's notice.posted by cortex (staff) at 2:22 PM on June 19, 2015
We have another roommate who moved in a week ago (the previous occupant of that room moved to another state for work, unfortunately, since she was a great roommate.) This new person has been gone 6 out of the 7 days that she's lived her for work and has told us the rest of the summer will be like that, so she's not really involved in the conflict between me and our other roommate.
I have lived in this house for several years, while my roommate has been here for four months. I've repainted the inside of the house, planted a garden, and just renewed my lease for another year. This is a great neighborhood where it's difficult to find affordable housing, especially a place that has good parking and allows pets. I also live a 15 minute walk away from work and close to all of my friends. So, I haven't considered moving.
I'm definitely not going to do anything that may break any laws, like changing the locks on my roommate or throwing her stuff outside.
Thank you to everyone who responded, there's a lot of helpful info in your answers.
There's lots of advice in here that may or may not be legal in your jurisdiction. For example, in my jurisdiction you cannot use the security deposit as last months rent. Your roommate agreement with her may not be the last word on what you are or are not allowed to do. Consult a legal clinic that offers legal advice on tenancy if you cannot afford a brief consultation with a lawyer.
posted by lookoutbelow at 6:33 PM on June 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lookoutbelow at 6:33 PM on June 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
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Really? What does your agreement with her say? Is your agreement with her month-to-month?
Should I tell her why I need her to move out?
No, this indicates it is up for debate.
Should I say it's just not working out anymore?
No, because that's not a clear statement - "it's not working out" doesn't necessarily mean "move out in 30 days."
Don't underestimate the ability of people to misparse what you are saying when you/they are under significant stress. The way to solve this is to make the communication as utterly simple, blunt, and concise as possible.
"I've decided that I'd prefer to live alone at the moment. I need you to move out. Our agreement will end [date]. I realize this is a pain, but it's what I need at the moment. I can [help you move out|help you find a new place|recommend you to a new landlord], but I need you to leave by [date]. I can talk about this again [tomorrow], but right now I need to get going."
Then leave (so that she can't yell at you) and make sure that all of your property is locked in your room away from her. Have a plan for staying away from her for some time in case it's necessary. However, don't let her abuse you. If she starts yelling at you, walk away. If she follows, leave the house. If she comes after you, call the police. Repeat this until she is gone. If she is not gone, call the police.
posted by saeculorum at 10:48 AM on June 19, 2015 [9 favorites]