More structure or more play for a 4 year old?

June 11, 2015 8:59 AM

I have two day cares available for my 4 year old son. One is rather academics based with time slots reserved for reading and math (about 2 hours a day). The other is play based with no formal education included. There are other differences of course, but these are the two basic ones I'm struggling with. I need to pick one. It's never too early to start learning, or is it? If you've been in a similar situation what has swayed your mind?
posted by anonymous to Education (24 answers total)

I'd go structure, but this is based on my parenting experience where unstructured environments attract wild-ass parents and their wild-ass kids.
posted by H. Roark at 9:03 AM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]

Your question is framed in such a way that it gives the impression that you're struggling between choices of formal education = learning, and no formal education = !learning. I don't think you actually think that. What I would ask the carers in each school is what sorts of foundational activities they do (pre- and early literacy/numeracy). Not every kid is ready for formal instruction at four, but every kid can participate in constructive, guided play, so I'd go that way (have done, in fact, for our 4 year old).
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 9:14 AM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

Are you sure there's absolutely no formal education at the "play based" center? My almost 3-year old attends daycare at a preschool, and they have a set curriculum and daily schedule. They're not teaching him to read, but they do learn colors, letters, numbers, etc. I'm glad he's learning but I wouldn't want him chained to a desk learning to read at 4.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:14 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

This depends on the personality of your kid, I think. Are they already an early reader, or picking up academic skills fairly rapidly at home? Go with unstructured, this might be a kid that needs to learn to be self-directed more. Maybe likely to struggle academically and not inclined be an early reader? Go with structured to get better positioned for kindergarten.
posted by Andrhia at 9:16 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ask to have a trial day or three at both places and see which one your son enjoys the most. Structure or not, it's the relationship that your child has with the teachers and classmates that will determine how he feels about where he is going every day. Children are sponges- he's going to learn a lot in any environment. Make things easy on yourself and let that be the environment that he will most enjoy.
posted by myselfasme at 9:21 AM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]

"Play is the work of children" is a famous quote from Maria Montessori. We picked a Montessori because it recognized that a lot kids at 4 really aren't ready to sit around and formally learn in a way that looks academic; they need to handle materials, choose what is making sense to them that day. But they also are sponges who are designed to learn and who are laying down foundations for learning. For example, picking up small beads (with or without tweezers) develops a pincer grip which leads to the right motor control for writing.

However and also, kids are different. What works for yours and for your family is key.

So first, your kid will learn no matter which environment you choose.

Second, my experience is that it almost entirely depends on the actual school. "Play-based" can mean "disengaged teachers and a lot of chaos" and "academic-based" can mean rigid teachers and a lot of power struggles.

So for the academic one I would ask:

- how much sitting is involved every day? If it's a lot, with my kids that would never, ever work. For my friend's it would be bliss.
- are kids given manipulables (beads, blocks, pattern blocks, etc.) for learning?
- how do they handle it when a child doesn't want to sit down and focus that day...or week?
- what's the breakdown of kids who leave the program? Not to be sexist but if your child is a boy (or a wriggly girl) and you discover a lot of boys leave the school that's a red flag.

For the play-based one I would ask:
- how much social coaching is there?
- how do they handle introverted children, children who need a break, children who seem bored, children who are running wild?
- how do they make sure that concepts and questions that come up in play are followed through on to capture a child's imagination...does block play lead to discussions around shapes and number/place value? Is there a clear progression through concepts, seasons, etc.?
- how are discipline issues handled?
posted by warriorqueen at 9:25 AM on June 11, 2015 [15 favorites]

Can your son shadow at both schools and give you feedback about what he thinks? He might have a strong preference. I sent my youngest son to a play based preschool when he was 4. It was modeled on the Reggio Emilia approach. I was very pleased with the environment, and it was quite structured, with times for various activities, routines, scheduled play etc. This pre school was attached to a parochial school that I had not planned to send him to, but changed my mind. He moved directly into a higher pressure academic environment for kinder/ first grade and had zero problems adapting to homework and academic expectations. I was glad he got the gentle introduction to "school" that the play centered pre school provided for him. That said, I'm not sure there is just one correct answer here. I think either pre school could work for your son, so don't be afraid to just give one a try and make changes later if necessary.
posted by Rapunzel1111 at 9:29 AM on June 11, 2015

Even if there's no formal education, I would think there'd be a structure/schedule and/or curriculum. My 3-year-old goes to a daycare/preschool that I wouldn't call academic necessarily but they do have a schedule of when they eat, sleep, use the bathroom, have free play, etc. They also have a weekly curriculum they use to have a theme each week and the kids learn things about the theme, do related art projects, etc.

My daughter is just finishing up her first year of kindergarten and went to the same place as her brother. She left there knowing how to write in big block letters and she could count to 20, but that was pretty much it, if you're thinking pure academics. But she also had already learned how to get along with other kids and how to properly act in the classroom - and *that* is what my husband and I felt was more important for kindergarten readiness than if she knew her ABCs.

I think it depends on what you want, and what works best for your kid. Both my kids are bright and curious, but they are also terrible at sitting still. They did/do well in a place where they are free to explore in their own way, and able to figure out how to get on with other kids. I would see if your kid can do a trial run at both places and see which one he prefers.
posted by sutel at 9:29 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

My son attends a play-based preschool but they still have a schedule and a curriculum and he's still learning lots of things. It's not like they just turn the kids loose in a room for six hours. Personally I think 4 is too young for formal education--kids that age learn through play and being active.

I would look closely at the specifics of each place--does the "formal curriculum" mean sitting down and doing worksheets or does it mean baking a cake and talking about measurements? Does "play-based" mean just playing with toys all day or does it mean engaging in group activities that promote learning? What's your impression of the kids in each location? Are they engaged and actively participating? Are they having fun? What is your kid like? What is your impression of the teachers?
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 9:31 AM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

I asked a similar question when I was trying to decide on something for my daughter. We went with the more play based school and I'm very happy with our decision. Feel free to MeMail me if you have additional questions.
posted by sacrifix at 9:53 AM on June 11, 2015

What I'd really want to know is whether or not the unstructured daycare means they're going to plop them in front of a television all day... because it often does.
posted by stormyteal at 9:57 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

As a homeschooler, I never had much if any "formal education time" (i.e. lecture/lesson format) in most subjects up to 9th grade, yet I always felt it was easy to both learn and surpass the learning objectives of what was being taught to my peers in school.

Formal education is overrated. Formal education does not equal learning. As long as there's great staff and good activities at the play-based daycare, I would choose that.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:20 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

It's never too early to start learning, or is it?

This is based on the false assumption that learning is something that needs to be implemented, or at least "shown" to kids. Nothing is further from the truth.

That said, if the daycare where "no formal education" is included is one of these places where learning "school stuff" like reading or math is actively discouraged (these do exist), I would go for the other one. Ultimately, the program isn't nearly as important as the human vibe of a place, which in turn depends directly on the people who work there.
posted by Namlit at 10:23 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

There is increasing evidence that too heavy an emphasis on academic skills at too early an age leads to not as great outcomes for academics down the road. As others pointed out, children learn best by doing at this age, and play is the primary vehicle for that. So play isn't wasted time, its the core of the skills they will use later. Running and climbing give a rudimentary understanding of spatial relationships, physics, time, listening to stories and acting out your own give a sense of narrative and the foundational skills for reading comprehension. Most importantly, though, when done well play-based curricula provide kids the opportunity to develop executive functioning skills that are the key to success at school and in life in general. Things like how to plan out what you're going to do before you do it, if your way doesn't work can you be flexible, can you delay gratification, inhibit your impulses to do something more purposeful. We went with play based programs for our oldest for preschool and kindergarten. He's about to graduate kindergarten with reading and math skills that are way, way above grade level expectations, all kinds of new skills about how to get along with others, and lots of confidence in his ability to go seek out information and learn in the world around him. It's been pretty amazing to watch.
posted by goggie at 10:29 AM on June 11, 2015 [11 favorites]

There needs to be a balance of both, though I recognize they'll be a focus at a preschool.

We're going for the more academic one due to location/logistics (and based on our child), but the academic one still has play time, outside time, and play-based elements. So, I would check on these elements for the more academic one.

At the play based one I would check on whether they do worksheets for drawing letters, include themes (e.g., animals one week, numbers 1-3 the next, etc), talk about months, weather, days of the week, etc.

If you with the play-based one, are you willing to spend some extra time reading to your child? and talking through counting etc?
posted by typecloud at 10:32 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

There are definitely play-based curricula for preschool aged kids--mine went to a Reggio Emilia preschool and had no idea they were learning anything because they were too busy having a good time, and a philosophy like that could describe either a "structured academic" or "play based" situation, depending on point of view.
posted by padraigin at 10:48 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

I came here to post about the studies to which goggie alluded. In general, I would advise against structured academics for anyone before before third grade or so. Then again, my two-year-old is learning some slightly annoying wild-ass behaviors from the wild-ass four-year-olds at his play-based "school." Make your judgment call on the people, not the philosophy.
posted by BrunoLatourFanclub at 11:50 AM on June 11, 2015

Ironically, the professional academics who study such things have developed a firm consensus that academic preschools are not beneficial for childrens' long-term academic success. This is an idea, completely refuted by science, that is pushed by worried parents. Not only does early instruction not lead to better academics, it leads to higher stress. Children learn best through play.

There may be other reasons to choose the academic-based pre-school, but those hours of formal reading and math instruction are not it. In fact, I consider them lost hours that could have been spent engaging in richer learning experiences based in play.

Done right, you do not need to supplement a good play-based program with anything. Real life offers plenty of learning activities. Just involve them. Read for pleasure, not for instruction. Kids are curious. They will learn. Don't kill their curiosity by forcing them into desks too early!

Although every child is different, I will tell you my personal experience with this. I have a son who just turned four. He has been in a very good play-based program since he was 6 months old. He has never been formally instructed, yet he is starting to read and spell. It is magical to see, and hard to let it happen without trying to make it go faster and possibly making him hate it in the process. I have literally never seen a child in his class be bored. For what it's worth, it's a daycare full of kids whose parents are scientists and engineers, many of whom have PhDs. We are a bunch of successful academics who know that the secret to our success was not starting early - it was curiosity and imagination. If you support those, everything else will fall into place.

Good luck!
posted by pizzazz at 1:52 PM on June 11, 2015 [4 favorites]

Pure anecdata: When I was a little kid I went to a very fun, play-based nursery school and a similar kindergarten, and when I got to first grade I remember the shift to academic learning seeming really abrupt and harsh. It was like we suddenly had to sit still and behave and do boring, hard things all day. If I'd had some academics going on earlier, the shift probably would have been a lot less dramatic.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:52 PM on June 11, 2015

Play.
posted by latkes at 3:09 PM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

If I'd had some academics going on earlier, the shift probably would have been a lot less dramatic.

Or maybe first grade is still too early.
posted by pizzazz at 3:20 PM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

Play based was our choice and we loved it! No academic work, but the hard and necessary work of learning to negotiate, resolving conflicts, and participating in group planning that goes into play. Academics are a distraction at the younger ages, in my opinion. Kids should be focused on social/emotional skills that are needed for all life tasks.
posted by munichmaiden at 4:13 PM on June 11, 2015

I work at a play-based preschool. I can't speak for all programs but in mine:

- There are MANY opportunities for social development. When kids can come and go (in different play areas) there are many disagreements. Showing the children how to behave kindly and resolve conflicts is an ongoing and rewarding process.

- There is no forced art/math/science/language time. We put out materials for each of these activities every day (different ones each week) and work with any child who wants to engage with them. Some children spend TONS of time in these areas, some children spend no time in these areas.

- Just about all play is educational. There are children who would happily play blocks all week. Blocks provide TONS of learning (spatial, cognitive, creative etc...) Also, good educators can make just about anything educational with some thoughtful observations and questions - "Wow! You've made a bridge! I wonder if we can make this taller? How many blocks should we add?"

- We practice "big school" routines. We line up to go places. We have child-led show and tell in which all kids must sit quietly and raise their hand to ask questions. We practice good hygiene and healthy snack habits.

- We have worksheets. They are optional. We print out all kinds - angry birds, star wars, cupcakes, etc, and leave 'em in a bin. Many kids LOVE to do them. Some would happily never fill one out. With these kids we try to be creative in engaging them in writing. Maybe they need to write invitations for a party. Maybe they would love to tell their parents a message. Maybe they need a recipe for their cooking. Children are often more invested in these writing tasks anyway.

-There is only an hour of set story-time a week. Though, an educator usually spends the better part of the day reading to any child/ren who ask for a book reading.

- There are no tvs or screen time.

- Every child that is "graduating" can write their name, identify the letters of the alphabet, count up to 20 (and many can count MUCH higher), knows their colours and shapes. Many can add and subtract. Many know their letter sounds, and recognize sight words. Many can read our clock. These are things that many children simply want to learn. They don't need a formal lesson to do it, just some discussion time with an educator.

- The children seem happy. Excited. Content. There are entire adventures every single day.

- It feels like a lot of work to be an educator in this environment. When you're not sitting a bunch of kids down to "teach" something to everyone you need to spend more energy on each child. You need to focus on their individual interests and see how you can organically guide conversations to help each individual reach their next level.

I'll stop here, but there's much more. This is what my play-school looks like. It's not what all play-schools look like. I like to think that this is the last chance that these kiddos have just to be kids. I would check out both your options and see which one seems more nurturing. Every child will learn when they are ready.
posted by eisforcool at 6:01 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

You're right that it's never too early to start learning. However, a lot of people conflate academic instruction and intellectual activity--they're not the same thing. This is an especially important distinction to make for preschool-aged children, because for them, a structured academic setting is not developmentally appropriate. However, you can and should make sure their preschool is providing learning opportunities for them--which at this age are generally based in guided exploration and play.

This article by Dr. Lillian Katz is specifically focused on STEM in the early years, but the introduction is more generally about early childhood learning. She discusses

-the distinction between academic instruction and intellectual activity
-the long-term detrimental effects of early academic instruction,
-the long-term benefits of early intellectual activity based in exploration and project-based play.

...much of the discussion and debate about appropriate preschool curricula is based on a misleading dichotomy. I suggest that a more useful way of looking at the choices involved in preschool and kindergarten curriculum approaches is to examine the distinctions between academic and intellectual goals and activities rather than to insist on a dichotomy of either formal instruction or play.
....
Blair’s analysis of neurological research does not imply that formal academic instruction is the way to optimize early brain development (Blair, 2002). On the contrary, Blair proposes a neurobiological model of school readiness based on his analysis of recent neurological data, the implications of which are that preschool programs are best when they focus on social, emotional, and intellectual goals rather than narrow academics. Blair’s analysis emphasizes the positive role of early experiences that provoke self-regulation, initiative, and what he calls synchronous interaction in which the child is interactive with others rather than a mere passive recipient of isolated bits of information. On the basis of his model, an intellectually rather than academically focused approach is most likely to yield desirable “school readiness” as well as longer-term benefits related to the goals of STEM education.

Furthermore, the common-sense notion that “earlier is better” is not supported by longitudinal studies of the long-term effects of different kinds of preschool curriculum models. On the contrary, a number of longitudinal follow-up studies indicate that while formal instruction produces good test results in the short term, preschool curriculum and teaching methods emphasizing children’s interactive roles and providing frequent opportunities for them to exercise initiative, while not so impressive in the short term, yield better school participation and achievement in the long term (Golbeck, 2001, Marcon, 2002).

I think what you're looking for is a preschool that provides play-based/project-based intellectual activity. I would not put my four year old in a preschool that did two hours a day of specific reading and math lessons. It's not developmentally appropriate. However, I would make sure the preschool focused on early learning--it's just that for kids that age, learning takes place during guided play and exploration.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 7:58 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]