I think my friend may have a sneaker fetish
June 9, 2015 5:59 AM Subscribe
...and if so, he's been trying to involve me in it without my consent. How do I proceed?
Some quick background: This guy and I are both in our early 30's. I've known him for about 10 years, we went to school together. I've been in a happy, committed relationship for the entire time I've known him. He's single, and as far as I have heard from others, has never had a romantic or sexual relationship (not passing judgment, just seems like it may be relevant context). He and I have never been super close, but we ran in the same circles in school and I'd consider us solid acquaintances. He's close friends with a bunch of my close friends. We live in different cities now, but work in the same industry. We chat online once a month or so, and typically see each other in person (via industry or mutual friends' events) once every few years.
A couple years ago, he sent me an IM to let me know that he had a coupon for Lady Foot Locker (or some other athletic shoe retailer I don't remember) and would I like to have it? I said sure, thinking it was something he'd email over, and that would be that. Instead, he started asking all about what kind of sneakers I might be interested in -- what color, brand, style, etc. I wasn't looking to buy a pair of sneakers RIGHT THEN, so I politely brushed his questions off. Then he started sending me links to different sneakers, asking what I thought of them. Again, I tried to brush him off. He was being weirdly pushy about it. I finally told him to forget about the coupon, I really wasn't in the market for sneakers after all. A few days later, I heard from another woman that he'd done the same thing to her, and she had a similar reaction to me.
Since then, he constantly brings up sneakers with me over IM. If we have a conversation that lasts more than five minutes, he will find a way to steer it towards sneakers. What kind of sneakers do I wear to exercise? Have I bought any new sneakers lately? Hey, he just got some new sneakers for a marathon he's running, here's a picture. Et cetera. I have never indulged these conversations beyond a polite, brief response, and after the first few times he's done it, I've actively discouraged the topic or ended the conversation as soon as he brings it up. I have even said, point blank, "I do not care about sneakers and do not want to talk about them," more than once. But he still does it. About a month ago he asked me again what kind of sneakers I'd been wearing lately, at which point I stopped responding, and have ignored his subsequent messages (only a couple over this timespan). Mutual friends have mentioned his sneaker obsession in passing, though mostly in the jokey context of "jeez, that guy sure loves his sneakers *eyeroll*." I've really come to believe it's more than some innocent quirky obsession, but haven't ever brought that up with others because it feels like a pretty serious accusation to make, and also I just don't want to gossip.
For those of you who have experience with shoe/sneaker fetishes, does this sound like what's going on? If this is really what's happening here, I'm so squicked that he would involve me (and other women) in his fetish, and am furious that he would do it without our consent. Particularly because I'm not single, am not remotely interested in him, and I've explicitly and repeatedly expressed my disinterest in the subject. And if it's not a fetish, then what gives? Even if it's not a sexual thing for him, his unrelenting obsession with the topic is tiresome and it's caused me to dread talking with him altogether. He and I have a lot of other common interests and our chats are pleasant otherwise, but when he brings up sneakers they grind to a screeching halt. Is there any way I can get him to knock it the fuck off? Otherwise, I may just continue to ignore his messages altogether.
Some quick background: This guy and I are both in our early 30's. I've known him for about 10 years, we went to school together. I've been in a happy, committed relationship for the entire time I've known him. He's single, and as far as I have heard from others, has never had a romantic or sexual relationship (not passing judgment, just seems like it may be relevant context). He and I have never been super close, but we ran in the same circles in school and I'd consider us solid acquaintances. He's close friends with a bunch of my close friends. We live in different cities now, but work in the same industry. We chat online once a month or so, and typically see each other in person (via industry or mutual friends' events) once every few years.
A couple years ago, he sent me an IM to let me know that he had a coupon for Lady Foot Locker (or some other athletic shoe retailer I don't remember) and would I like to have it? I said sure, thinking it was something he'd email over, and that would be that. Instead, he started asking all about what kind of sneakers I might be interested in -- what color, brand, style, etc. I wasn't looking to buy a pair of sneakers RIGHT THEN, so I politely brushed his questions off. Then he started sending me links to different sneakers, asking what I thought of them. Again, I tried to brush him off. He was being weirdly pushy about it. I finally told him to forget about the coupon, I really wasn't in the market for sneakers after all. A few days later, I heard from another woman that he'd done the same thing to her, and she had a similar reaction to me.
Since then, he constantly brings up sneakers with me over IM. If we have a conversation that lasts more than five minutes, he will find a way to steer it towards sneakers. What kind of sneakers do I wear to exercise? Have I bought any new sneakers lately? Hey, he just got some new sneakers for a marathon he's running, here's a picture. Et cetera. I have never indulged these conversations beyond a polite, brief response, and after the first few times he's done it, I've actively discouraged the topic or ended the conversation as soon as he brings it up. I have even said, point blank, "I do not care about sneakers and do not want to talk about them," more than once. But he still does it. About a month ago he asked me again what kind of sneakers I'd been wearing lately, at which point I stopped responding, and have ignored his subsequent messages (only a couple over this timespan). Mutual friends have mentioned his sneaker obsession in passing, though mostly in the jokey context of "jeez, that guy sure loves his sneakers *eyeroll*." I've really come to believe it's more than some innocent quirky obsession, but haven't ever brought that up with others because it feels like a pretty serious accusation to make, and also I just don't want to gossip.
For those of you who have experience with shoe/sneaker fetishes, does this sound like what's going on? If this is really what's happening here, I'm so squicked that he would involve me (and other women) in his fetish, and am furious that he would do it without our consent. Particularly because I'm not single, am not remotely interested in him, and I've explicitly and repeatedly expressed my disinterest in the subject. And if it's not a fetish, then what gives? Even if it's not a sexual thing for him, his unrelenting obsession with the topic is tiresome and it's caused me to dread talking with him altogether. He and I have a lot of other common interests and our chats are pleasant otherwise, but when he brings up sneakers they grind to a screeching halt. Is there any way I can get him to knock it the fuck off? Otherwise, I may just continue to ignore his messages altogether.
Step one to getting someone to knock something off: Tell them to knock it off. (Check!)
Step two: If you value their friendship, remind them again. Perhaps with terms: "I will stop speaking with you if you bring that up again. It bothers me."
If you don't want to keep the friendship, step two is just to end it.
Personally I would just block this guy and fade him out. You barely ever see him and you don't live near one another. You have no obligation to teach him that he is being a jerk. He knows he is being a jerk. People who just walk all over boundaries are impossible, and it's not your job to help him learn about boundaries.
Sorry you have to deal with this.
posted by sockermom at 6:09 AM on June 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
Step two: If you value their friendship, remind them again. Perhaps with terms: "I will stop speaking with you if you bring that up again. It bothers me."
If you don't want to keep the friendship, step two is just to end it.
Personally I would just block this guy and fade him out. You barely ever see him and you don't live near one another. You have no obligation to teach him that he is being a jerk. He knows he is being a jerk. People who just walk all over boundaries are impossible, and it's not your job to help him learn about boundaries.
Sorry you have to deal with this.
posted by sockermom at 6:09 AM on June 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
I'm not 100% sure if "And if it's not a fetish, then what gives?" is supposed to be a rhetorical question or not, but in case not, obsessive behavior like this around a specific subject can be symptomatic of autism or other autism-spectrum disorders. (Obviously we can't diagnose your friend over the Internet or anything, but it is one possible explanation.)
posted by phoenixy at 6:14 AM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by phoenixy at 6:14 AM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
It sounds like you're right. And if you're NOT right, then he is still being a boor (and a bore) by insistently involving you in discussions about women's sneakers.
But yeah, I think you're right.
Is there any way I can get him to knock it the fuck off?
Given that you've said you do not want to discuss sneakers with him, and said it clearly, and more than once -- I have to wonder if pushing women's boundaries around this is part of the thrill for him. He may be pushing this more with you than with your mutual friends who didn't push back on it.
I think if polite requests would get him to knock it off, he would already have done so. I would stop IMing with him.
posted by pie ninja at 6:24 AM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
But yeah, I think you're right.
Is there any way I can get him to knock it the fuck off?
Given that you've said you do not want to discuss sneakers with him, and said it clearly, and more than once -- I have to wonder if pushing women's boundaries around this is part of the thrill for him. He may be pushing this more with you than with your mutual friends who didn't push back on it.
I think if polite requests would get him to knock it off, he would already have done so. I would stop IMing with him.
posted by pie ninja at 6:24 AM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
For those of you who have experience with shoe/sneaker fetishes, does this sound like what's going on? If this is really what's happening here, I'm so squicked that he would involve me (and other women) in his fetish, and am furious that he would do it without our consent.
Yep, I think that's exactly what's going on. A friend of mine used to work for the JCPenney catalog phone line, and would complain about the guys who did exactly this sort of thing. It would start out as a normal call asking for help picking out shoes, and devolve into creepy personal footwear questions.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 6:53 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yep, I think that's exactly what's going on. A friend of mine used to work for the JCPenney catalog phone line, and would complain about the guys who did exactly this sort of thing. It would start out as a normal call asking for help picking out shoes, and devolve into creepy personal footwear questions.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 6:53 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you really want to continue messaging with him, then tell him once and once only that the conversation will be over if he brings up sneakers. Then the next time you're chatting and he brings it up, end the conversation immediately. Don't say that you're ending the conversation, just instantly go radio silent. Block him for the rest of the day/week/whatever, then when you feel like chatting again, you can strike up the conversation. Giving him any sort of response to that particular line of enquiry will only encourage him. Actually, it seems like you've already tried that and he's seeing you having another conversation with him as being an opening. Time to get rid, I think.
I agree with pine ninja in that I think it's less that sneakers are the fetish and more the act of dragging someone unwilling into a conversation about them that's the particular thing going on.
I think that ultimately, you have to decide whether you want to continue chatting with someone who has proven that they do not and will not respect your boundaries. I don't think it makes a difference WHY he's making you uncomfortable. What matters is that he IS making you uncomfortable. I hope that's not an invalidating thing to say, because you do seem to want to know. Maybe ask him why he's harping on and on about it and making people feel uncomfortable. He'll likely steer the conversation back to the wearing of bright red sneakers, or whatever, but I think that going there with him is the only reliable way to find out what's actually going on in this scenario. I guess it depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.
This reminds me of this post from NotAlwaysRight.
posted by Solomon at 7:03 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
I agree with pine ninja in that I think it's less that sneakers are the fetish and more the act of dragging someone unwilling into a conversation about them that's the particular thing going on.
I think that ultimately, you have to decide whether you want to continue chatting with someone who has proven that they do not and will not respect your boundaries. I don't think it makes a difference WHY he's making you uncomfortable. What matters is that he IS making you uncomfortable. I hope that's not an invalidating thing to say, because you do seem to want to know. Maybe ask him why he's harping on and on about it and making people feel uncomfortable. He'll likely steer the conversation back to the wearing of bright red sneakers, or whatever, but I think that going there with him is the only reliable way to find out what's actually going on in this scenario. I guess it depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.
This reminds me of this post from NotAlwaysRight.
posted by Solomon at 7:03 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
Some solutions I can think of:
1. Total bluntness. "You have a weird obsession with sneakers. It's boring and irritating. I don't ever want to talk about sneakers again. Please stop. If you bring it up, I'll stop responding."
2. A stock response. "Huh. How bout them Yankees?" Later: "Huh. How bout them Yankees?"
3. Training him by going silent minus the bluntness. Just completely ignore it, and walk away.
4. Drop the friendship with him.
posted by quincunx at 7:14 AM on June 9, 2015
1. Total bluntness. "You have a weird obsession with sneakers. It's boring and irritating. I don't ever want to talk about sneakers again. Please stop. If you bring it up, I'll stop responding."
2. A stock response. "Huh. How bout them Yankees?" Later: "Huh. How bout them Yankees?"
3. Training him by going silent minus the bluntness. Just completely ignore it, and walk away.
4. Drop the friendship with him.
posted by quincunx at 7:14 AM on June 9, 2015
I think you've been polite enough times and had your request completely ignored that he will not or cannot stop. Block him.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:28 AM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 7:28 AM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
If it was a fetish, that would mean he's been trying to involve your entire circle of friends in his sex life from the sounds of it. This sounds extreme and unlikely and something that would have left him friendless or earning more than an eyeroll by now.
posted by rhizome at 7:48 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 7:48 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
You'd be perfectly justified in never talking to him again, but honestly I kind of feel bad for the guy. I'm not sure I agree with the people saying he's getting off on unwilling involvement - it's possible, but it is also possible that he thinks no one can tell why he's doing what he's doing, so he thinks it's harmless.
If this were me, I would not wait for him to bring it up again, and I wouldn't beat around the bush anymore. I would send him an email saying something like "hey friend. It seems pretty clear to me that you have a sexual fetish for sneakers, and when you try to talk to me about them I feel violated (or whatever word you want to use). I'm sure you meant no harm, but if you ever try to bring it up with me again, I'll be forced to end our friendship."
If he's doing all this maliciously, this won't change anything (or will make him cut off contact with YOU), but if he is actually oblivious to the fact that anyone has caught on to his oh-so-subtle shoe talk, you will be doing him a huge favor by telling him how obvious he is being.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:30 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
If this were me, I would not wait for him to bring it up again, and I wouldn't beat around the bush anymore. I would send him an email saying something like "hey friend. It seems pretty clear to me that you have a sexual fetish for sneakers, and when you try to talk to me about them I feel violated (or whatever word you want to use). I'm sure you meant no harm, but if you ever try to bring it up with me again, I'll be forced to end our friendship."
If he's doing all this maliciously, this won't change anything (or will make him cut off contact with YOU), but if he is actually oblivious to the fact that anyone has caught on to his oh-so-subtle shoe talk, you will be doing him a huge favor by telling him how obvious he is being.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:30 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
it is also possible that he thinks no one can tell why he's doing what he's doing
OP says: 'I have even said, point blank, "I do not care about sneakers and do not want to talk about them," more than once.'
He knows they know.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:37 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
OP says: 'I have even said, point blank, "I do not care about sneakers and do not want to talk about them," more than once.'
He knows they know.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:37 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
He knows people know he talks about sneakers a lot and are annoyed by it. He may not know that they know it is sexual, even though it almost certainly is.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:39 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:39 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
If it was a fetish, that would mean he's been trying to involve your entire circle of friends in his sex life from the sounds of it. This sounds extreme and unlikely and something that would have left him friendless or earning more than an eyeroll by now.
FWIW, a person of my acquaintance once contacted me with out-of-the-blue questions about my shoes and feet. I asked other women in our mutual social circle if they'd gotten anything similar from him and several of them had. It became clear that a foot fetish was in play. I'm the only person who chose to rebuke and block him, as far as I know--the others politely declined and shrugged it off. Some of them now avoid him, but others defended him as innocently quirky and couldn't see what my problem was. So in my experience the above isn't necessarily accurate.
posted by milk white peacock at 8:52 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
FWIW, a person of my acquaintance once contacted me with out-of-the-blue questions about my shoes and feet. I asked other women in our mutual social circle if they'd gotten anything similar from him and several of them had. It became clear that a foot fetish was in play. I'm the only person who chose to rebuke and block him, as far as I know--the others politely declined and shrugged it off. Some of them now avoid him, but others defended him as innocently quirky and couldn't see what my problem was. So in my experience the above isn't necessarily accurate.
posted by milk white peacock at 8:52 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I have experience with this!
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck. This is most likely a duck.
Too bad. Usually the foot fetish guys are the most polite and kind. It's awful he's trying to take advantage like this when there are so many legit and above-board ways for him to indulge his interest. Oh, well. I would block him. Sorry.
posted by jbenben at 9:20 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck. This is most likely a duck.
Too bad. Usually the foot fetish guys are the most polite and kind. It's awful he's trying to take advantage like this when there are so many legit and above-board ways for him to indulge his interest. Oh, well. I would block him. Sorry.
posted by jbenben at 9:20 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've really come to believe it's more than some innocent quirky obsession, but haven't ever brought that up with others because it feels like a pretty serious accusation to make, and also I just don't want to gossip.
He's pushing your boundaries. Telling other people about him pushing your boundaries isn't gossip, it's true. Fetish or no fetish, it's crappy behavior and I think it's very reasonable to call crappy behavior what it is.
posted by clavicle at 10:06 AM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
He's pushing your boundaries. Telling other people about him pushing your boundaries isn't gossip, it's true. Fetish or no fetish, it's crappy behavior and I think it's very reasonable to call crappy behavior what it is.
posted by clavicle at 10:06 AM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
We can speculate 'til the cows come home, but none of us has any way to determine from what has been said whether this is a sexual fetish or not. What we can determine is that this person consistently disregards your stated boundaries. It matters little whether that is due to malice aforethought or just obliviousness. I am hearing nothing about communication to the effect of "Oh, hey, I have autism (or something) and, gosh, sorry to be so slow to get some things."
People who habitually violate boundaries and don't get serious push back (and he mostly isn't getting serious push back) tend to escalate that pattern to larger violations. Your acceptance and understanding will very likely be used as precedent to gradually do bigger, worse things the longer the relationship goes on.
I would end the relationship, if at all possible.
posted by Michele in California at 1:14 PM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
People who habitually violate boundaries and don't get serious push back (and he mostly isn't getting serious push back) tend to escalate that pattern to larger violations. Your acceptance and understanding will very likely be used as precedent to gradually do bigger, worse things the longer the relationship goes on.
I would end the relationship, if at all possible.
posted by Michele in California at 1:14 PM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Sneakerheads" who are super into collecting shoes as a hobby are a real subculture. Has he used the term "colorway" to describe the design and colors of a shoe? Does he really like Air Jordans? Does he excitedly tell you about how some limited edition shoe is about to "drop"? Those would all be indicators that this could be the innocent kind of obsession.
But really those dudes buy the shoes to wear themselves. If he isn't talking a lot about his own shoes, just grilling you and your female friends about yours, that's hella weird and it's unfortunately probably a sexual thing.
posted by vogon_poet at 2:38 PM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
But really those dudes buy the shoes to wear themselves. If he isn't talking a lot about his own shoes, just grilling you and your female friends about yours, that's hella weird and it's unfortunately probably a sexual thing.
posted by vogon_poet at 2:38 PM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
So, here's what a non-sexual shoe-intensive communication from an acquaintance sounds like.
I had a coworker who was planning her wedding on a graduate student budget. She mentioned one day that she was having a terrible time finding the shoes she wanted to match her dress at a price within her budget. I put my shopping black belt and a couple of free hours to use that evening and came up with about a dozen pairs that met all her criteria. Then I sent her a brief email along the lines of, "Dear Coworker, I found some shoes that I thought might work with your outfit. Here are the links. I hope you find what you're after! Sincerely, Timeo." And then I didn't bring it up again until she mentioned a couple of weeks later that she'd found her dream shoes on my list. I said, "That's great! I'm so glad!" And that was it. I didn't ask which pair she'd chosen, and why. I didn't tell her about the shoes I'd worn at my wedding. I didn't ask for photos of her modeling the shoes.
What you're describing? It's creepy as fuck. And it sounds like there's nothing you get from having this guy in your life that's worth the rage and disgust you're left feeling as a result of his constant, semi-covert sexualization.
posted by timeo danaos at 4:47 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I had a coworker who was planning her wedding on a graduate student budget. She mentioned one day that she was having a terrible time finding the shoes she wanted to match her dress at a price within her budget. I put my shopping black belt and a couple of free hours to use that evening and came up with about a dozen pairs that met all her criteria. Then I sent her a brief email along the lines of, "Dear Coworker, I found some shoes that I thought might work with your outfit. Here are the links. I hope you find what you're after! Sincerely, Timeo." And then I didn't bring it up again until she mentioned a couple of weeks later that she'd found her dream shoes on my list. I said, "That's great! I'm so glad!" And that was it. I didn't ask which pair she'd chosen, and why. I didn't tell her about the shoes I'd worn at my wedding. I didn't ask for photos of her modeling the shoes.
What you're describing? It's creepy as fuck. And it sounds like there's nothing you get from having this guy in your life that's worth the rage and disgust you're left feeling as a result of his constant, semi-covert sexualization.
posted by timeo danaos at 4:47 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I used to post outfit photos online, including shots of myself in highly-fetishized articles of clothing like thigh high stockings, sneakers, high heels, stripper heels, etc. I got a lot of wildly inappropriate sexual comments on them, constantly.
I don't know what you're friend is up to, but "use the Internet to violate women's boundaries and involve them in your foot/shoe fetish" is totally, 100% a thing that creepy-dudes-with-bad-boundaries-and-foot/shoe-fetishes do. Absolutely, 100%, totally a thing I have experienced, over and over, with probably hundreds of creepy strangers.
I've also had nice, respectful sex partners who you'd never guess had these kinks - it's not the kink, it's the getting-off-on-creeping-on/out-women-thing that's a problem.
posted by Juliet Banana at 5:21 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't know what you're friend is up to, but "use the Internet to violate women's boundaries and involve them in your foot/shoe fetish" is totally, 100% a thing that creepy-dudes-with-bad-boundaries-and-foot/shoe-fetishes do. Absolutely, 100%, totally a thing I have experienced, over and over, with probably hundreds of creepy strangers.
I've also had nice, respectful sex partners who you'd never guess had these kinks - it's not the kink, it's the getting-off-on-creeping-on/out-women-thing that's a problem.
posted by Juliet Banana at 5:21 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Those IMs are being typed with one hand and interacting with you like this is equivalent to him being able to turn on your webcam without your knowldge and wanking to that.
"Bob, its pretty clear you are getting off on talking about sneakers at me. That's involving me in your sex life without my consent and, in fact, against my express wishes. That is a huge abuse of our friendship and we won't be in contact any more. If I hear from others that you continue to do the same thing with them, I will be advising them to do the same. Find someone who consents enthusiastically to whatever it is that's pushing your buttons."
posted by Iteki at 1:21 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Bob, its pretty clear you are getting off on talking about sneakers at me. That's involving me in your sex life without my consent and, in fact, against my express wishes. That is a huge abuse of our friendship and we won't be in contact any more. If I hear from others that you continue to do the same thing with them, I will be advising them to do the same. Find someone who consents enthusiastically to whatever it is that's pushing your buttons."
posted by Iteki at 1:21 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Considering that your other friends have brought up his sneaker fixation, and he's tried the same coupon for sneakers trick with them, I'm guessing there are several other women in your social circle grappling with the very same question you are right now.
It doesn't matter if it's a fetish or not, or whether or not you have mutual interests, this is a person who doesn't respect your boundaries. DTMFA!
posted by inertia at 4:54 PM on June 10, 2015
It doesn't matter if it's a fetish or not, or whether or not you have mutual interests, this is a person who doesn't respect your boundaries. DTMFA!
posted by inertia at 4:54 PM on June 10, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by BibiRose at 6:02 AM on June 9, 2015 [9 favorites]