Nice to meet you - but please back off...
June 9, 2015 12:21 AM Subscribe
How do you handle conversations with strangers (specific ones) without offending - snowflake details inside.
I consider myself to be quite socially awkward, and I'm not the best if people start up a conversation with me on my daily commute. I recently had a situation that has played on my mind however, and I would appreciate a meta-view on whether I handled it appropriately and what I could do if this ever happens again. Because it always seems to happen to me. Firstly apologies if I don't use the politically correct terminology - I should state here I'm in no way prejudiced, but likewise everyone seems to use different terms to describe what they perceive.
I have a daily train journey of around 20 minutes. When waiting for my train yesterday a man approached me at the station to ask when the train to X town was arriving and if this was the right platform. I told him and he asked if that was where I was going because that was where he was going. At this point it was fairly obvious he had some sort of learning difficulty or condition - possibly autism or aspergers. He began to ask me a series of questions in quick succession -what was my name, when was my birthday, where did I work, what was my favourite television
programme. I politely answered as briefly as possible but batted questions back to him. He sat beside me on the train all the way and for most of the journey listed all the facts he knew about modern history, which I didn't mind, but he also asked me how many brothers and sisters I had, what their names were, what did I study at college. When it got to my stop he asked if someone was meeting me, I told him my boyfriend was and asked if someone meeting him. He said his neighbour was - I pointed him towards the exit and he got a little agitated, started to apologise repeatedly if he had bothered me. I assured him he hadn't, and said goodbye-and dashed for the opposite exit. He didn't follow, but as I walked away a fellow passenger said he had overheard on the train and asked if I was alright as he had been asking quite personal questions. I said I was fine, the guy obviously just wanted someone to chat to.
Now all this background because here is the thing. I did not want to offend this chap. I don't like to offend anyone, and it was clear he wasn't necessarily entirely comfortable with social boundaries-he referred to his social worker at one point so I was a little conscious of how he might react to being asked to back off. I have a stressful job and I like a quiet commute to wind down, but also I was incredibly aware of everyone in the carriage listening.
I need to gather experience from people who know better as my world both socially and professionally is quite limited. Something I mean to amend but that's a separate point. It's not so much that I am uncomfortable talking to people who may have a learning or social difficulty, the guy clearly just wanted to chat, but more that I don't know how to either halt the conversation or at least say I don't want to answer certain questions without offending. How could I have handled this situation better? As It has played a lot on my mind.
Many thanks
I consider myself to be quite socially awkward, and I'm not the best if people start up a conversation with me on my daily commute. I recently had a situation that has played on my mind however, and I would appreciate a meta-view on whether I handled it appropriately and what I could do if this ever happens again. Because it always seems to happen to me. Firstly apologies if I don't use the politically correct terminology - I should state here I'm in no way prejudiced, but likewise everyone seems to use different terms to describe what they perceive.
I have a daily train journey of around 20 minutes. When waiting for my train yesterday a man approached me at the station to ask when the train to X town was arriving and if this was the right platform. I told him and he asked if that was where I was going because that was where he was going. At this point it was fairly obvious he had some sort of learning difficulty or condition - possibly autism or aspergers. He began to ask me a series of questions in quick succession -what was my name, when was my birthday, where did I work, what was my favourite television
programme. I politely answered as briefly as possible but batted questions back to him. He sat beside me on the train all the way and for most of the journey listed all the facts he knew about modern history, which I didn't mind, but he also asked me how many brothers and sisters I had, what their names were, what did I study at college. When it got to my stop he asked if someone was meeting me, I told him my boyfriend was and asked if someone meeting him. He said his neighbour was - I pointed him towards the exit and he got a little agitated, started to apologise repeatedly if he had bothered me. I assured him he hadn't, and said goodbye-and dashed for the opposite exit. He didn't follow, but as I walked away a fellow passenger said he had overheard on the train and asked if I was alright as he had been asking quite personal questions. I said I was fine, the guy obviously just wanted someone to chat to.
Now all this background because here is the thing. I did not want to offend this chap. I don't like to offend anyone, and it was clear he wasn't necessarily entirely comfortable with social boundaries-he referred to his social worker at one point so I was a little conscious of how he might react to being asked to back off. I have a stressful job and I like a quiet commute to wind down, but also I was incredibly aware of everyone in the carriage listening.
I need to gather experience from people who know better as my world both socially and professionally is quite limited. Something I mean to amend but that's a separate point. It's not so much that I am uncomfortable talking to people who may have a learning or social difficulty, the guy clearly just wanted to chat, but more that I don't know how to either halt the conversation or at least say I don't want to answer certain questions without offending. How could I have handled this situation better? As It has played a lot on my mind.
Many thanks
It's kind of you to help with directions when you can. You should also feel totally free to say "I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in chatting," if you want. You can add "right now" to make it seem less harsh, you can give a little explanation or whatever. But you don't owe an extended conversation to everyone who happens to walk up to you.
If you do want to chat a bit but not answer certain questions, it's fine to say "I'd rather not say," or "that's a very personal question" and then change the subject.
I agree it's very useful to carry headphones and I would add sunglasses as well, if you just want to discourage people from approaching you in the first place.
posted by ktkt at 12:56 AM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
If you do want to chat a bit but not answer certain questions, it's fine to say "I'd rather not say," or "that's a very personal question" and then change the subject.
I agree it's very useful to carry headphones and I would add sunglasses as well, if you just want to discourage people from approaching you in the first place.
posted by ktkt at 12:56 AM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yes, headphones are the answer. If you want to be nice about it, say, "Excuse me. Working..." Then get up and move. In the future, I'd not answer such personal questions from strangers, no matter how harmless them seem. He can talk to some other dude if he's feeling chatty. I learned this the hard way when as a preteen, some harmless-looking dad type approached me asking for directions and then, as I was answering, grabbed my non-existent boob before slinking away. It's still pisses me off that I was so gullible because I was with my little sister and felt I'd put her in danger too. As a result of that encounter, (and several others I'd rather not get into), I no longer engage with men who approach me in public. Period. Let them ask some other dude.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 12:56 AM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by LuckySeven~ at 12:56 AM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
You were in a difficult situation and behaved well. I don't think it's really possible to lay down a simple rule for these things.
However, one thing I'd say is, it's good to break the strong habit of answering questions. We're all conditioned to give at least some answer to any question, an ingrained habit telemarketers exploit. But you can just not answer. Smile, if you want, say nothing. Raise a hand: 'stop', shake your head if it seems right: but if you don't want to talk - don't talk.
posted by Segundus at 1:09 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
However, one thing I'd say is, it's good to break the strong habit of answering questions. We're all conditioned to give at least some answer to any question, an ingrained habit telemarketers exploit. But you can just not answer. Smile, if you want, say nothing. Raise a hand: 'stop', shake your head if it seems right: but if you don't want to talk - don't talk.
posted by Segundus at 1:09 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Basic answer: you are not required to answer any stranger's questions.
It doesn't really matter if the questioner is on the autism spectrum or not, he was a total stranger asking you tons of personal questions --- and perhaps this particular individual wouldn't do anything with all that data, but your answers could clearly be overheard by others, too, so you were sharing that data pretty widely. It is NOT rude to blow off strangers asking rude questions, no matter who they are.
Next time, try to sit where someone like this can't join you; pick a seat near one that already has a person in it. Headphones are good, as is keeping your head in a book. Or, frankly, just move away and straight-up stare into the distance and ignore them: you are NOT required to be polite just because someone wants to talk to you.
posted by easily confused at 1:43 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
It doesn't really matter if the questioner is on the autism spectrum or not, he was a total stranger asking you tons of personal questions --- and perhaps this particular individual wouldn't do anything with all that data, but your answers could clearly be overheard by others, too, so you were sharing that data pretty widely. It is NOT rude to blow off strangers asking rude questions, no matter who they are.
Next time, try to sit where someone like this can't join you; pick a seat near one that already has a person in it. Headphones are good, as is keeping your head in a book. Or, frankly, just move away and straight-up stare into the distance and ignore them: you are NOT required to be polite just because someone wants to talk to you.
posted by easily confused at 1:43 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
If someone is being impolite (and asking a stream of overly personal questions is impolite), then you don't have to be polite back. In this case, I would have said something like, "Sorry, I'm not interested in chatting right now" when he asked where you worked. If he keeps trying to ask you questions, move away and ignore him, look past him and without making eye contact say, "Hmmm," to any inquiry, or put on your head phones, etc. If you do somehow get stuck in a conversation with a stranger, it is perfectly ok to not answer any questions you don't want to answer: they have no right to your personal information.
Unfortunately though, there's no perfect way to get creeps to leave you alone. So at the end of the day, I think you have to do whatever feels safest to you, and then try not to beat yourself up about it afterwards if you have trouble getting them to leave you alone.
posted by colfax at 1:57 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately though, there's no perfect way to get creeps to leave you alone. So at the end of the day, I think you have to do whatever feels safest to you, and then try not to beat yourself up about it afterwards if you have trouble getting them to leave you alone.
posted by colfax at 1:57 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Personally when strangers ask me questions about myself I lie like hell. It only works if you can make up fluid and plausible stories on the fly though.
I do this because sometimes men get very angry and scary if you shut them down as suggested above.
posted by winna at 4:02 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I do this because sometimes men get very angry and scary if you shut them down as suggested above.
posted by winna at 4:02 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
This sounds like my college friend's brother, who was more on the Rainman end of autism and I have no doubt could tell me the details I shared precisely some decades later. This would be a conversation we had on the days I was picking her up for carpool.
Nowadays I'd politely say who wants to know and ask about their birthday/detail and why it's so important - what does it reveal about a person besides age? Etc. If I needed time to focus on work, there are a few polite tactics here that I'd use. The person I'm thinking of could take the polite boundary-setting limitation, but would have trouble with a personal attack.
posted by childofTethys at 4:08 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nowadays I'd politely say who wants to know and ask about their birthday/detail and why it's so important - what does it reveal about a person besides age? Etc. If I needed time to focus on work, there are a few polite tactics here that I'd use. The person I'm thinking of could take the polite boundary-setting limitation, but would have trouble with a personal attack.
posted by childofTethys at 4:08 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree with the commenter who mentions the loneliness and desire to connect that some disabled people feel. It's a compulsion for some to gather information. For others, they may just not have a grasp on social cues and boundaries. There is of course the off chance that you've met a psychopath who is plotting to maim you, but more often than not in a situation like you've described it's probably a harmless someone with a spectrum disorder who is trying to be friendly.
There is a woman who lives in my building who will seemingly accost you in the elevator with a list of questions, as if you're under investigation. I realized, however, after my first encounter with her that I'd become unnecessarily uncomfortable with her. I didn't know how to react to her barrage of questions, they came across as suspicious, if not paranoid and I felt violated and offended lol. Upon reflection, I found the encounter amusing and sorted out how I would handle her the next time she cornered me in a common area. If I wasn't a very private person who likes to keep to myself, I probably would have just automatically found it amusing and said something like, "Wow you're full of questions! What is your name?" And shared a smile and went on.
I don't like complete strangers asking me personal questions either, even if they're cheery and personable. I just find it rude. I love my privacy and introversion. But I've come to realize that most Americans like to share and they love to nose around, it's how they bond with the society around them I guess.
As for handling chatty people when you're looking to zone out, I agree with the headphone-wearing suggestions. Also, if someone asks you a question in any setting that you don't care to answer, just say warmly, "Why do you ask?" and when they reply just say "mmm" or "I see" and stop talking. Works for me
posted by Avosunspin at 5:01 AM on June 9, 2015
There is a woman who lives in my building who will seemingly accost you in the elevator with a list of questions, as if you're under investigation. I realized, however, after my first encounter with her that I'd become unnecessarily uncomfortable with her. I didn't know how to react to her barrage of questions, they came across as suspicious, if not paranoid and I felt violated and offended lol. Upon reflection, I found the encounter amusing and sorted out how I would handle her the next time she cornered me in a common area. If I wasn't a very private person who likes to keep to myself, I probably would have just automatically found it amusing and said something like, "Wow you're full of questions! What is your name?" And shared a smile and went on.
I don't like complete strangers asking me personal questions either, even if they're cheery and personable. I just find it rude. I love my privacy and introversion. But I've come to realize that most Americans like to share and they love to nose around, it's how they bond with the society around them I guess.
As for handling chatty people when you're looking to zone out, I agree with the headphone-wearing suggestions. Also, if someone asks you a question in any setting that you don't care to answer, just say warmly, "Why do you ask?" and when they reply just say "mmm" or "I see" and stop talking. Works for me
posted by Avosunspin at 5:01 AM on June 9, 2015
Response by poster: Thank you everyone for the helpful comments. I suppose my biggest concern here, having perceived rightly or wrongly that this chap may have difficulties with usual social boundaries, was that he either wouldn't understand or would get angry/upset if I closed him down. In general if I'm walking down the street and someone stops me I'm afraid I generally say I'm sorry I don't know and keep walking, but on a busy train it's harder to get away. This seems to happen to me a lot, I really don't know why, and these suggestions will help. I really did not want to be unkind, I did ask a lot of questions back to try to deflect but of course this only encouraged him. It all sounds very antisocial I know, but my commute is my only time alone and last night I got home more stressed than I started. I will keep a lot of these things in mind for the future, thanks all for replying.
posted by Mnky197 at 5:10 AM on June 9, 2015
posted by Mnky197 at 5:10 AM on June 9, 2015
This seems to happen to me a lot, I really don't know why
You may seem approachable or vulnerable- some people give that energy off with their body language or attire. If you're meek and your body language is timid or you fidget a lot, it's probably an easy read for someone who's looking to dominate a conversation or entertain themselves at your expense. If your dress is typically always casual or breezy, or maybe ill-fitting or dated, you may seem more approachable. I'm one of those 'approachable, say anything to them' people. It's really annoying. I've concluded that it's probably down to my clothes being comfortable and casual, and my demeanor being sort of hobbit-like lol- slow, deliberate, and I probably look lost sometimes because I like to linger in stores and stare at landscapes on trains/buses. Sure, I could steel it up and wear nothing-but-business tailored attire and keep a scowl on my face but it's just not me. Headphones and my face in a book would work for me as well when I'm feeling particularly uninterested in engaging strangers.
posted by Avosunspin at 5:18 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
You may seem approachable or vulnerable- some people give that energy off with their body language or attire. If you're meek and your body language is timid or you fidget a lot, it's probably an easy read for someone who's looking to dominate a conversation or entertain themselves at your expense. If your dress is typically always casual or breezy, or maybe ill-fitting or dated, you may seem more approachable. I'm one of those 'approachable, say anything to them' people. It's really annoying. I've concluded that it's probably down to my clothes being comfortable and casual, and my demeanor being sort of hobbit-like lol- slow, deliberate, and I probably look lost sometimes because I like to linger in stores and stare at landscapes on trains/buses. Sure, I could steel it up and wear nothing-but-business tailored attire and keep a scowl on my face but it's just not me. Headphones and my face in a book would work for me as well when I'm feeling particularly uninterested in engaging strangers.
posted by Avosunspin at 5:18 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: You see this is why I struggle to understand it - I am always in a tailored suit for work, carrying a laptop case, and tapping away on a phone....I usually wait until I get on the train to put headphones in as I don't want to miss any announcements (frequent platform changes where I live) but it's a good call to just have them in even if there's no music playing.
posted by Mnky197 at 5:24 AM on June 9, 2015
posted by Mnky197 at 5:24 AM on June 9, 2015
If you don't mind the person talking to you, but don't want to divulge personal information, the lightest possible answer to the personal questions is, "Oh, I don't answer questions on trains." (or elevators, or stations, or buses, whatever is appropriate) Just keep saying it over and over.
posted by JanetLand at 5:43 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by JanetLand at 5:43 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I always say I have to get work done. My workflow happens to involve writing by hand, so I usually have a legal pad or some index cards to write on during commutes, but you could probably do this just as well with a phone. Or take your laptop out, but that might be too much fuss on your train.
I err on the side of not talking to strange people in that kind of public situation. What if you decide to talk to them just this once and then it turns out they are on the same commute as you and now they think they can talk to you every day? This has happened to me. While I appreciate the idea of helping out people who are practicing social skills, you need to watch yourself on public transportation and, come to that, so do they.
posted by BibiRose at 5:55 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I err on the side of not talking to strange people in that kind of public situation. What if you decide to talk to them just this once and then it turns out they are on the same commute as you and now they think they can talk to you every day? This has happened to me. While I appreciate the idea of helping out people who are practicing social skills, you need to watch yourself on public transportation and, come to that, so do they.
posted by BibiRose at 5:55 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
If the direct blow-off is stressful or seems too rude for you, work is the universal white lie excuse. "It was nice chatting you but I have to get through this brief/memo/report for work. Cheers!" If you don't carry a smartphone you can keep a couple typed pages of whatever in your bag for this purpose. On a phone or other device almost any reading is indistinguishable from work.
posted by Wretch729 at 6:37 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Wretch729 at 6:37 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
This kind of thing probably happens to you a lot because you don't shut it down. I also think it's likely that something in your body language (I don't think it's a question of what kind of clothes you're wearing) tells people that you aren't going to shut it down. I would start by practicing enforcing your boundaries and nipping these conversations in the bud when they start. If the stranger who approaches you doesn't like it, you shouldn't worry about hurting their feelings, because you don't owe them a conversation.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:46 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by J. Wilson at 6:46 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
There's no reason to lie or play games pretending to be busy.
You can just say "That is a personal question" or "That's a bit invasive" or "I'm not answering that for a complete stranger!" Just smile and speak your mind. If he persists, you can even say "I'm done talking. Have a good day." Repeat and repeat if needed.
You have no obligation to spare someone's feelings in this case, even if they are atypical. If he is offended by your normal, polite boundaries, then that is something he might remember the next time he wants to ask a stranger about their sisters' names and birthdays.
posted by General Tonic at 6:48 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
You can just say "That is a personal question" or "That's a bit invasive" or "I'm not answering that for a complete stranger!" Just smile and speak your mind. If he persists, you can even say "I'm done talking. Have a good day." Repeat and repeat if needed.
You have no obligation to spare someone's feelings in this case, even if they are atypical. If he is offended by your normal, polite boundaries, then that is something he might remember the next time he wants to ask a stranger about their sisters' names and birthdays.
posted by General Tonic at 6:48 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think it's ok to be honest and establish boundaries, if you feel uncomfortable. A similar situation happened to me not long ago - in this case, the person was on the aggro side, so it was easier for me to say things like "You know, I don't think that's a very nice question to ask" and "No, that's not something I want to share with you" and "No, I don't think we're going to go to a restaurant together today, sorry".
Re intrusions in general - are you a young female? That's all that's required for some people to feel free to impose themselves. Work on developing a "resting bitch face" and blanking people - don't make eye contact, don't respond nonverbally, look past them. Headphones and paperwork will help.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:53 AM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
Re intrusions in general - are you a young female? That's all that's required for some people to feel free to impose themselves. Work on developing a "resting bitch face" and blanking people - don't make eye contact, don't respond nonverbally, look past them. Headphones and paperwork will help.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:53 AM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
It seems to me that there are 4 ways of dealing with this situation. The first is the way you chose, and the second is the shutting down of conversation, as others have described. The third option - wearing headphones (and sunglasses)- is a good one too.
But I'd like to suggest a 4th option. You can still respond to questions, but don't feel under any obligation to answer them seriously. I've been in situations like this, and since I'm not good at enforcing boundaries, I find that turning an interruption into a game makes things much less stressful. This doesn't at all mean that you need to lie, though if you find yourself being asked personal questions by anyone who knows they are overstepping boundaries, I would be inclined to be as obnoxious with my answers as possible. In this case, that would be cruel of course. Being mysterious/vague/wishy-washy preserves your privacy, but still allows the other person to have a conversation if that is what they are after.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 7:05 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
But I'd like to suggest a 4th option. You can still respond to questions, but don't feel under any obligation to answer them seriously. I've been in situations like this, and since I'm not good at enforcing boundaries, I find that turning an interruption into a game makes things much less stressful. This doesn't at all mean that you need to lie, though if you find yourself being asked personal questions by anyone who knows they are overstepping boundaries, I would be inclined to be as obnoxious with my answers as possible. In this case, that would be cruel of course. Being mysterious/vague/wishy-washy preserves your privacy, but still allows the other person to have a conversation if that is what they are after.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 7:05 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I did not want to offend this chap. I don't like to offend anyone
I'm assuming you are female. In general, not offending people is a noble goal. However, if a strange (as in, unknown to you/a stranger) man is stepping over your boundaries or making you uncomfortable in public, please don't worry about offending him. I mean, don't go out of your way to be mean or anything, but don't feel like you have to put up with shit to be "nice."
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:06 AM on June 9, 2015 [17 favorites]
I'm assuming you are female. In general, not offending people is a noble goal. However, if a strange (as in, unknown to you/a stranger) man is stepping over your boundaries or making you uncomfortable in public, please don't worry about offending him. I mean, don't go out of your way to be mean or anything, but don't feel like you have to put up with shit to be "nice."
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:06 AM on June 9, 2015 [17 favorites]
How could I have handled this situation better? As It has played a lot on my mind.
I know this is easier said than done, but probably the best answer is "you could handle this better by not letting it get to you". Unfortunately, this is a situation with no real right answer and of course you felt anxious! Someone has demonstrated a willingness to push your boundaries and that means you don't know how they're going to react if you assert yourself. A reaction could be socially, emotionally, or even physically violent (not saying you're at serious risk, just saying that if you feel anxious, that's natural and healthy, not something of which to be ashamed). If it makes you feel better, this is 100% not your fault and it something that happens to many, many women (and men) very frequently.
One thing you could do in the future if it would help is, if it's possible, make eye contact with other people on the train; I think this might have been especially scary because you felt isolated in conversation with this guy but, as the fellow passenger demonstrated, other people were there and on your side. It's possible they didn't want to say anything because they didn't want to embarrass you or start any trouble or anything, but if you'd stood up and asked to sit somewhere else it seems really, really likely that someone would have been happy to accommodate you. If you need help, it can be surprising and reassuring to see how many people are willing, even excited, to offer it.
Really, this is a bad situation with no real answer except "don't hold yourself accountable for other people's behavior" and "don't prioritize someone else's comfort over your own". Yes, it's possible that you would have made this man uncomfortable if you'd asked to move, but you were already feeling uncomfortable, and that's not okay either. Don't think that just because something is the status quo (your discomfort) it has to stay that way. You were put in a bad situation and you shouldn't feel upset about how you handled it.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:20 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I know this is easier said than done, but probably the best answer is "you could handle this better by not letting it get to you". Unfortunately, this is a situation with no real right answer and of course you felt anxious! Someone has demonstrated a willingness to push your boundaries and that means you don't know how they're going to react if you assert yourself. A reaction could be socially, emotionally, or even physically violent (not saying you're at serious risk, just saying that if you feel anxious, that's natural and healthy, not something of which to be ashamed). If it makes you feel better, this is 100% not your fault and it something that happens to many, many women (and men) very frequently.
One thing you could do in the future if it would help is, if it's possible, make eye contact with other people on the train; I think this might have been especially scary because you felt isolated in conversation with this guy but, as the fellow passenger demonstrated, other people were there and on your side. It's possible they didn't want to say anything because they didn't want to embarrass you or start any trouble or anything, but if you'd stood up and asked to sit somewhere else it seems really, really likely that someone would have been happy to accommodate you. If you need help, it can be surprising and reassuring to see how many people are willing, even excited, to offer it.
Really, this is a bad situation with no real answer except "don't hold yourself accountable for other people's behavior" and "don't prioritize someone else's comfort over your own". Yes, it's possible that you would have made this man uncomfortable if you'd asked to move, but you were already feeling uncomfortable, and that's not okay either. Don't think that just because something is the status quo (your discomfort) it has to stay that way. You were put in a bad situation and you shouldn't feel upset about how you handled it.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:20 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think giving directions is something you should be willing to help people out with unless you really are in the middle of a life-and-death phone call or something -- certainly I have had to rely on asking strangers for directions from time to time, and exploring new cities, etc. would really suck if you could never approach anyone to ask if you were on the right platform. For the rest of it, I think it's completely your prerogative to not get into a long, personal conversation if you don't want to have one. It seems likely that this guy was lonely and didn't realize he was overstepping normal social boundaries, but that doesn't make it your personal responsibility to carry on a conversation. Since it sounds like he wasn't trying to be actively obnoxious (which, let's be honest, some guys on public transit are, and they deserve no gentle responses in my opinion), I would just go with a generic excuse like "Sorry, I'm in the middle of responding to an email from my boss." Then put on headphones and turn back to your phone without waiting for a reply.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:34 AM on June 9, 2015
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:34 AM on June 9, 2015
With people with developmental delays and with some forms of psychotic disorders (I have less experience with people with autism spectrum disorders), I've found that being respectful, straightforward, and kind tends to work fairly well, as does giving a reason for the boundary. "I really need to get some work done, so I can't talk right now" or "It's very important for me to have some quiet time before work, so I don't want to talk right now" or "That's a very personal question and I don't answer personal questions from people I don't know well." I try to keep my tone of voice at "I'm sharing factual information," not apologetic or shaming or angry. It's frustrating, I'm sure, not to be able to pick up on information that other people do, so my goal is just to help the person out by being more explicit and clear about my needs in that moment.
So that would be my first suggestion. If things escalate from there -- they react angrily, they ignore your request -- you can assess what you think is safest at that point.
I can't tell if you're worried that people with developmental delays or autism are somehow more likely to flip out on you than members of the general public, or if you're worried about all men becoming aggressive if put off. If it's the former, it may be helpful to remember that people with these sorts of conditions likely get a lot of feedback from the professionals in their lives about respecting boundaries and will likely react much better than the average person when reminded they're being inappropriate. If they do balk, then for me that sorts out the condition vs. personality thing -- that is, they're being a jerk because they're a jerk, not because their brains are not letting them read my body language -- and I would proceed as I would for any person who was being aggressively boundary-pushing with me (assess for safety, look for exits, ramp up my reaction, or whatever else felt appropriate and safe at the time).
You're not required to do any of that, of course, but that would be the tack I would take.
posted by jaguar at 7:40 AM on June 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
So that would be my first suggestion. If things escalate from there -- they react angrily, they ignore your request -- you can assess what you think is safest at that point.
I can't tell if you're worried that people with developmental delays or autism are somehow more likely to flip out on you than members of the general public, or if you're worried about all men becoming aggressive if put off. If it's the former, it may be helpful to remember that people with these sorts of conditions likely get a lot of feedback from the professionals in their lives about respecting boundaries and will likely react much better than the average person when reminded they're being inappropriate. If they do balk, then for me that sorts out the condition vs. personality thing -- that is, they're being a jerk because they're a jerk, not because their brains are not letting them read my body language -- and I would proceed as I would for any person who was being aggressively boundary-pushing with me (assess for safety, look for exits, ramp up my reaction, or whatever else felt appropriate and safe at the time).
You're not required to do any of that, of course, but that would be the tack I would take.
posted by jaguar at 7:40 AM on June 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
Once I was in a pub in Berlin with my mother and a strange man sat with us and started talking. I'd been in Berlin for a few months, so I was quite accustomed to people being direct. I turned to him and said, channeling the most polite but assertive sentence I could think of, "Could you please leave us in peace?" He apologised and left us alone.
Alternatively there was the time that some dude was trying to chat me up at a train station. "Hey, I like you style? Where do you live? Where are you going?" etc. I just said, "I don't want to talk to you!" and ran and hid amongst a sea of people at the other end of the station.
Trying to get someone to leave you alone by asking them questions is not going to work, especially if the person doesn't have a grasp of boundaries. They're just going to think that you're engaging with them. Even worse, they'll think that you're actually interested in what they have to say. What you need to do is be clear and direct but polite. eg.
"I have to get some stuff done for work, so I'd appreciate some quiet time by myself now. Enjoy the rest of your train ride!"
Move seats or carriages if you have to. I've done this before, always timing it so that the other person won't have time to follow me because the doors will close. The most important thing is your safety, not some guy's feelings. The only reason I would worry about his feelings is if you think that he could become violent. Otherwise? I don't care if they go home and cry, I am still not going to engage with strange men.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 7:41 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Alternatively there was the time that some dude was trying to chat me up at a train station. "Hey, I like you style? Where do you live? Where are you going?" etc. I just said, "I don't want to talk to you!" and ran and hid amongst a sea of people at the other end of the station.
Trying to get someone to leave you alone by asking them questions is not going to work, especially if the person doesn't have a grasp of boundaries. They're just going to think that you're engaging with them. Even worse, they'll think that you're actually interested in what they have to say. What you need to do is be clear and direct but polite. eg.
"I have to get some stuff done for work, so I'd appreciate some quiet time by myself now. Enjoy the rest of your train ride!"
Move seats or carriages if you have to. I've done this before, always timing it so that the other person won't have time to follow me because the doors will close. The most important thing is your safety, not some guy's feelings. The only reason I would worry about his feelings is if you think that he could become violent. Otherwise? I don't care if they go home and cry, I am still not going to engage with strange men.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 7:41 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Please note that in the couple of instances that I think that a person had a possible medical reason for their behaviour (like aspergers), being direct but polite was the only thing I needed to be to put a stop to the behaviour.
I think the guy is more likely to react badly if he's just behaving that way because he's an entitled jerk. Those are always the instances where I have had to physically remove myself from a situation to make myself feel safe.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 7:46 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the guy is more likely to react badly if he's just behaving that way because he's an entitled jerk. Those are always the instances where I have had to physically remove myself from a situation to make myself feel safe.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 7:46 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
You need to follow your instinct here. Unfortunately, telling strange men directly that you aren't interested in speaking with them can escalate dangerous situations.
This particular guy wasn't dangerous, but as someone above pointed out, it's not your job to accommodate men crossing your boundaries just because they MIGHT mean no harm. And I have seen incidents with men who obviously do have mental problems get very unpleasant. Just because someone has a disease doesn't mean you ought to engage.
Resting bitchface, headphones, looking away, all help. And, getting older helps - this almost never happens to me anymore, in my late 30s.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:46 AM on June 9, 2015
This particular guy wasn't dangerous, but as someone above pointed out, it's not your job to accommodate men crossing your boundaries just because they MIGHT mean no harm. And I have seen incidents with men who obviously do have mental problems get very unpleasant. Just because someone has a disease doesn't mean you ought to engage.
Resting bitchface, headphones, looking away, all help. And, getting older helps - this almost never happens to me anymore, in my late 30s.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:46 AM on June 9, 2015
The way I see it, if someone is just "socially awkward, lonely, and needs a friend" there is no reason for said person - if male - to try to make friends with young women in particular. If you're a guy and want to make friends of strangers, try making friends with other men. This is why I feel it's a boundary-push and it's fine to shut things down ASAP.
I used to get this sort of thing a lot as a young woman, and I chalk it up to my being short and small-boned, as well as having "resting nice face." I think petite women get their boundaries pushed more because people don't feel as scared of them. In any case, I find that headphones and either a book, a notebook, a phone or a tablet and looking very busy and absorbed in what I was doing helped a lot. (Alas, I still sometimes got the dreaded "whatcha reading" but not when I had on headphones.) Like fingersandtoes, now that I'm older I'm approached a lot less. Yay for middle age!
Wear headphones, look busy, and don't feel responsible for someone else's loneliness and lack of social skills - really, there are much better ways to connect with others than trying to chat with strangers on public transit.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:05 AM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
I used to get this sort of thing a lot as a young woman, and I chalk it up to my being short and small-boned, as well as having "resting nice face." I think petite women get their boundaries pushed more because people don't feel as scared of them. In any case, I find that headphones and either a book, a notebook, a phone or a tablet and looking very busy and absorbed in what I was doing helped a lot. (Alas, I still sometimes got the dreaded "whatcha reading" but not when I had on headphones.) Like fingersandtoes, now that I'm older I'm approached a lot less. Yay for middle age!
Wear headphones, look busy, and don't feel responsible for someone else's loneliness and lack of social skills - really, there are much better ways to connect with others than trying to chat with strangers on public transit.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:05 AM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
There are two issues here: first, the specific instance you write about. Second, your sense that this happens to you a lot. I think it is a mistake to run the two together.
I'm not generally known as a softie, but with the specific person you describe, I would have played along and lied if the questions became too personal. This individual obviously has a mental disorder. It is disingenuous for others to describe him as failing to respect your boundaries. This questioning was a symptom, not a violation. You shouldn't be offended by someone with Tourette's and you shouldn't feel violated by this person's social inappropriateness since it is obviously pathological. I get that you didn't like it and would have preferred a quiet commute, but consider it your good deed for the day.
Now, unless you live in an unusual community, you won't have encounters precisely like that more than a few times a year. For the run of the mill cases, you might want to work on eye contact: don't make it. Practice the unfocused gaze between the eyebrows or off at middle distance that many urban dwellers have perfected.
If some ordinary but rudely persistent person keeps bothering you, move to another carriage.
I get that you are shaken by these encounters, and I can understand. You do have some agency here. Getting people not to talk to you is a skill that can be developed over time. Of course, it may come at a certain cost; you can close yourself off too much from other people. Good luck.
posted by girl flaneur at 8:11 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not generally known as a softie, but with the specific person you describe, I would have played along and lied if the questions became too personal. This individual obviously has a mental disorder. It is disingenuous for others to describe him as failing to respect your boundaries. This questioning was a symptom, not a violation. You shouldn't be offended by someone with Tourette's and you shouldn't feel violated by this person's social inappropriateness since it is obviously pathological. I get that you didn't like it and would have preferred a quiet commute, but consider it your good deed for the day.
Now, unless you live in an unusual community, you won't have encounters precisely like that more than a few times a year. For the run of the mill cases, you might want to work on eye contact: don't make it. Practice the unfocused gaze between the eyebrows or off at middle distance that many urban dwellers have perfected.
If some ordinary but rudely persistent person keeps bothering you, move to another carriage.
I get that you are shaken by these encounters, and I can understand. You do have some agency here. Getting people not to talk to you is a skill that can be developed over time. Of course, it may come at a certain cost; you can close yourself off too much from other people. Good luck.
posted by girl flaneur at 8:11 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've unfortunately had this happen, too, with someone who clearly seemed to be somewhere on the spectrum. In my case, after a question or two ("What's your name?" etc.) the guy asked where I was going or if I had a boyfriend or something too personal, and I just firmly said, "That is none of your business" and it shut him down. It's easy for some people to just say the guy's lonely and doesn't mean any harm, but it's not your responsibility to spend your whole commute making small talk with someone if you don't want to or if it's making you uncomfortable.
posted by jabes at 8:30 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by jabes at 8:30 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
After seeing your follow-up, I just wanted to add: in my experience, some people take direct eye contact as a sign that you're friendly and open to their overtures, even if you do absolutely nothing else to encourage them. When someone approaches you, do you look at them, or do you ignore them and look a few feet away from them, so that you can keep track of them without acknowledging them? Try doing the latter for a while. It might cut down on the number of people bothering you.
posted by colfax at 10:05 AM on June 9, 2015
posted by colfax at 10:05 AM on June 9, 2015
Look, you do not owe personal details about yourself to a complete stranger. Even if they seem harmless or deserving of pity or whatever. You just don't.
I have been in situations like this in the past back when I was a lot younger. I'm in my early 30s now and I think I must've made an easy target for strange men as a young woman alone on public transportation. It makes me cringe to recall.
I think what helped me was to decide firmly for myself what I wanted to do in the future if I felt uncomfortable. If you have a clear idea ahead of time, you can fall back on your plan when you start to feel like things are off. For me, that meant practicing shaking my head and turning away or getting up to switch cars or seats. I also realized that part of me had been nervously thinking "What will the other passengers think of me for moving away from this poor man?" But then I did it once or twice and no one seemed to care. If anything, it seemed like other people were relieved for me.
Please notice how you were approached by someone afterward who was concerned for you. What everyone else on that train car actually thought was probably "Yeesh, that guy is clearly making that person uncomfortable." If you had gotten up and moved away abruptly, I promise that no one would have judged you negatively for it.
(And if there was some sort of unexpected escalation from the man because you moved away, well I bet that's when other people would've stepped in to tell him to back off or someone would've press a button for a conductor or pulled an emergency cord.)
Oh and one more thing: I have noticed over the years that some strangers (always men in my experience) use a question about directions or something like that as a way to start conversations or ask for money or say lewd things. I have even noticed that some men will quickly start to aggressively shout after me as I walk away, trying to get my attention. That serves as validation that I really did not need to answer their first question. Now, I just don't even answer their questions at all and I refused to acknowledge them. The way I see it is: he can ask the next person. Seriously, I am not the only person in the world who can help answer his question and, if I feel vulnerable or uncomfortable, then it is totally okay to let someone else handle it. This goes for you to, OP. For what it's worth, I volunteer regularly in a day shelter for the homeless with a lot of guests who have special needs (and a number of guests who are registered sex offenders) and I have learned a lot of compassion from my experience there. But you gotta put your own sense of safety and boundaries first.
posted by pinetree at 1:32 PM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
I have been in situations like this in the past back when I was a lot younger. I'm in my early 30s now and I think I must've made an easy target for strange men as a young woman alone on public transportation. It makes me cringe to recall.
I think what helped me was to decide firmly for myself what I wanted to do in the future if I felt uncomfortable. If you have a clear idea ahead of time, you can fall back on your plan when you start to feel like things are off. For me, that meant practicing shaking my head and turning away or getting up to switch cars or seats. I also realized that part of me had been nervously thinking "What will the other passengers think of me for moving away from this poor man?" But then I did it once or twice and no one seemed to care. If anything, it seemed like other people were relieved for me.
Please notice how you were approached by someone afterward who was concerned for you. What everyone else on that train car actually thought was probably "Yeesh, that guy is clearly making that person uncomfortable." If you had gotten up and moved away abruptly, I promise that no one would have judged you negatively for it.
(And if there was some sort of unexpected escalation from the man because you moved away, well I bet that's when other people would've stepped in to tell him to back off or someone would've press a button for a conductor or pulled an emergency cord.)
Oh and one more thing: I have noticed over the years that some strangers (always men in my experience) use a question about directions or something like that as a way to start conversations or ask for money or say lewd things. I have even noticed that some men will quickly start to aggressively shout after me as I walk away, trying to get my attention. That serves as validation that I really did not need to answer their first question. Now, I just don't even answer their questions at all and I refused to acknowledge them. The way I see it is: he can ask the next person. Seriously, I am not the only person in the world who can help answer his question and, if I feel vulnerable or uncomfortable, then it is totally okay to let someone else handle it. This goes for you to, OP. For what it's worth, I volunteer regularly in a day shelter for the homeless with a lot of guests who have special needs (and a number of guests who are registered sex offenders) and I have learned a lot of compassion from my experience there. But you gotta put your own sense of safety and boundaries first.
posted by pinetree at 1:32 PM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
Two things, first, you are not obligated to answer a strangers questions (except if they are a cop, and even then, only a couple of answers are required, before 'I want a lawyer!')
So, for:
He began to ask me a series of questions in quick succession -what was my name, when was my birthday, where did I work, what was my favourite television programme.
'I don't want to answer, thank you'
Further, you 'batted questions back to him.'
Really simply, don't ask questions if you don't want to carry on a conversation. This is the second point, you are an adult, and you are not required to carry on a conversation with someone you don't want to.
So clearly this guy had problems reading body language, was autistic, something like that. Imagine you're meeting someone who is blind - Unable to read facial expressions, you wouldn't just smile or wave, you'd have to say 'Nice to see you', announce your presence, or say 'I'm going now' rather than just waving and walking away.
With someone autistic, people will have tried to *explain* conversational rules to this guy, things like "Stop asking questions if someone doesn't answer you", but he probably has no way of telling the difference between someone politely carrying on a conversation with him, and someone kindly or enthusiastically carrying on a conversation with him. Being asked questions would probably be his best signal that he was successfully carrying on a 'wanted' conversation.
You need to use words with people like this, which I think some part of you realised, but, you were stuck in the middle of your OWN conversational rules, taught to you from childhood, which as a female, tend to be things like,
"Don't be rude, even when someone is making you feel uncomfortable",
"Don't turn down a 'kind' offer, even when it makes you feel uncomfortable"
"Answer questions if they are asked",
"Make conversation, even if you don't want to",
"Smile, whenever asked to smile".
For example - I know women who, first of all shouldn't ever hitchhike (and hopefully don't), but are still in danger from all sorts of situations, because I've asked them what they would do if, for whatever reason, someone stopped to offer them a lift, but they have a bad gut feeling about that person.
Their answers were, that they would probably get in the car, because they would feel too embarrassed, or awkward, or rude to directly turn down such an offer. Most of the rest said they'd try to quickly come up with a lie, or pretend someone was calling them, or actually had an app on their phone to make it LOOK like someone was calling them. Very few were willing to just say "No thank you".
This is part of a wider scenario, where Many women would rather put themselves in a dangerous situation, than cause any potential awkwardness to a stranger.
So, back to your situation:
started to apologise repeatedly if he had bothered me. I assured him he hadn't
This wasn't true though, was it?
I'm wondering if this whole situation bothered you because you lied.
And that makes you feel more awkward about the situation, like you shouldn't have needed to lie, like he should have known you were feeling uncomfortable and stopped talking to you, even though you'd already figured out that he wasn't able to read body language very well, but you've been socialised (as a woman, because again, guys just don't get this same pressure) to be excessively obliging to strangers, to NOT be assertive about your own needs (for some quiet), and here you are, having followed all the "rules" you were socialised with, ending up with an awkward situation, when you know the person you were talking to, didn't actually want to offend you, but was disabled enough that they couldn't follow your normal rules.
But the wider scenario is basically, that the rules are wrong.
You ARE allowed to say no.
To go beyond my first two suggestions, I feel that the answer to this is actually, 'Feminism'.
I'd recommend a women's self defense class, because a large part of those classes, are not physical defence, not kicking, hitting or punching, but generally role playing at saying 'No' to strangers. So is assertiveness training.
Which is something that many women, absolutely need.
posted by Elysum at 5:44 AM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
So, for:
He began to ask me a series of questions in quick succession -what was my name, when was my birthday, where did I work, what was my favourite television programme.
'I don't want to answer, thank you'
Further, you 'batted questions back to him.'
Really simply, don't ask questions if you don't want to carry on a conversation. This is the second point, you are an adult, and you are not required to carry on a conversation with someone you don't want to.
So clearly this guy had problems reading body language, was autistic, something like that. Imagine you're meeting someone who is blind - Unable to read facial expressions, you wouldn't just smile or wave, you'd have to say 'Nice to see you', announce your presence, or say 'I'm going now' rather than just waving and walking away.
With someone autistic, people will have tried to *explain* conversational rules to this guy, things like "Stop asking questions if someone doesn't answer you", but he probably has no way of telling the difference between someone politely carrying on a conversation with him, and someone kindly or enthusiastically carrying on a conversation with him. Being asked questions would probably be his best signal that he was successfully carrying on a 'wanted' conversation.
You need to use words with people like this, which I think some part of you realised, but, you were stuck in the middle of your OWN conversational rules, taught to you from childhood, which as a female, tend to be things like,
"Don't be rude, even when someone is making you feel uncomfortable",
"Don't turn down a 'kind' offer, even when it makes you feel uncomfortable"
"Answer questions if they are asked",
"Make conversation, even if you don't want to",
"Smile, whenever asked to smile".
For example - I know women who, first of all shouldn't ever hitchhike (and hopefully don't), but are still in danger from all sorts of situations, because I've asked them what they would do if, for whatever reason, someone stopped to offer them a lift, but they have a bad gut feeling about that person.
Their answers were, that they would probably get in the car, because they would feel too embarrassed, or awkward, or rude to directly turn down such an offer. Most of the rest said they'd try to quickly come up with a lie, or pretend someone was calling them, or actually had an app on their phone to make it LOOK like someone was calling them. Very few were willing to just say "No thank you".
This is part of a wider scenario, where Many women would rather put themselves in a dangerous situation, than cause any potential awkwardness to a stranger.
So, back to your situation:
started to apologise repeatedly if he had bothered me. I assured him he hadn't
This wasn't true though, was it?
I'm wondering if this whole situation bothered you because you lied.
And that makes you feel more awkward about the situation, like you shouldn't have needed to lie, like he should have known you were feeling uncomfortable and stopped talking to you, even though you'd already figured out that he wasn't able to read body language very well, but you've been socialised (as a woman, because again, guys just don't get this same pressure) to be excessively obliging to strangers, to NOT be assertive about your own needs (for some quiet), and here you are, having followed all the "rules" you were socialised with, ending up with an awkward situation, when you know the person you were talking to, didn't actually want to offend you, but was disabled enough that they couldn't follow your normal rules.
But the wider scenario is basically, that the rules are wrong.
You ARE allowed to say no.
To go beyond my first two suggestions, I feel that the answer to this is actually, 'Feminism'.
I'd recommend a women's self defense class, because a large part of those classes, are not physical defence, not kicking, hitting or punching, but generally role playing at saying 'No' to strangers. So is assertiveness training.
Which is something that many women, absolutely need.
posted by Elysum at 5:44 AM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
"OK, let me just stop you there. It's been interesting talking with you, but I have a stressful job and I need to use my commute to wind down and collect my own thoughts. If I could just sit quietly and do that now, I'd appreciate it. Thanks."
Almost 100% guaranteed to be less offensive than most of the reactions this guy will be accustomed to receiving from other people he buttonholes.
posted by flabdablet at 12:48 AM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]