What is Toastmasters like?
June 5, 2015 2:35 PM Subscribe
I'm an academic. One recurring bit of advice that my advisor has for me is that I need to improve my presentation skills to be a more dynamic and engaging speaker. I do fine in informal conversations, but tend to ice up in front of a crowd. I've heard good things about Toastmasters, and have looked over the local chapter's website, but I would like to hear individual stories about what to expect about joining the club. Previous questions have mentioned the program tangentially, but I'd like detail.
Response by poster: Could you describe a typical meeting?
posted by codacorolla at 2:59 PM on June 5, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 2:59 PM on June 5, 2015
I'm an academic and I went to Toastmasters a few times for the same reasons. I found everyone to be almost astonishingly welcoming and sweet, with an absence of sharp edges that reminded me a bit of people I've met through churches--like, the gentlest and most harmless cult. Very committed to the idea that everyone would be welcomed, no matter how dorky or odd, and so with a higher-than-usual proportion of dorky and odd people.
I loved that everyone was so open about how scary public speaking is, instead of treating it like this shameful personal failing, or like it was somehow enmeshed in the quality of what you were saying--I think that, coming from academia, fear of public speaking gets really mixed up with anxiety about whether people are judging the quality of what you have to say. Realizing that I get physically anxious just telling a story about my dog to a bunch of people who are there for no purpose other than to support me through my anxiety was really helpful in letting me see my fear of public speaking as just that--a collection of physical symptoms that surface whenever I'm in front of a crowd, and don't reflect anything meaningful about what I'm saying or how the audience is responding.
The only thing I didn't like about it was that it was kind of boring. You listen to a lot of nervous people telling stories about their dogs. Still, I think if I'd been willing to put more into it, I would have gotten even more out. If you're feeling stressed and beaten down by academia, it can be soothing and rejuvenating even in small doses. I think you should go.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 3:04 PM on June 5, 2015 [14 favorites]
I loved that everyone was so open about how scary public speaking is, instead of treating it like this shameful personal failing, or like it was somehow enmeshed in the quality of what you were saying--I think that, coming from academia, fear of public speaking gets really mixed up with anxiety about whether people are judging the quality of what you have to say. Realizing that I get physically anxious just telling a story about my dog to a bunch of people who are there for no purpose other than to support me through my anxiety was really helpful in letting me see my fear of public speaking as just that--a collection of physical symptoms that surface whenever I'm in front of a crowd, and don't reflect anything meaningful about what I'm saying or how the audience is responding.
The only thing I didn't like about it was that it was kind of boring. You listen to a lot of nervous people telling stories about their dogs. Still, I think if I'd been willing to put more into it, I would have gotten even more out. If you're feeling stressed and beaten down by academia, it can be soothing and rejuvenating even in small doses. I think you should go.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 3:04 PM on June 5, 2015 [14 favorites]
I've been to a few different groups. One I really liked - and joined - had a lot of very intelligent, fascinating people and a great format. I've been to others which were not my cup of tea. It's worth it to go for a few visits to really get a feel for the group.
What to expect: as a visitor you'll probably be asked to introduce yourself and you may be called on for table topics. You can decline if you like. The meeting should start on time and stay on schedule. Here's a rough outline of what the meeting is likely to include:
* welcome message
* joke/ grammar tip / quote of the day
* table topics - a chance to briefly answer a question along the lines of "what's your favorite vacation spot" or "tell us about a time you faced a challenge."
* 2-3 speeches of about 5-7 minutes length
* each speech will be reviewed (someone will get up and specifically explain what the speech was supposed to accomplish and whether it did)
* Time keeper report - on the speakers and how they managed their time.
There may be some variation but you get the idea.
posted by bunderful at 3:45 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
What to expect: as a visitor you'll probably be asked to introduce yourself and you may be called on for table topics. You can decline if you like. The meeting should start on time and stay on schedule. Here's a rough outline of what the meeting is likely to include:
* welcome message
* joke/ grammar tip / quote of the day
* table topics - a chance to briefly answer a question along the lines of "what's your favorite vacation spot" or "tell us about a time you faced a challenge."
* 2-3 speeches of about 5-7 minutes length
* each speech will be reviewed (someone will get up and specifically explain what the speech was supposed to accomplish and whether it did)
* Time keeper report - on the speakers and how they managed their time.
There may be some variation but you get the idea.
posted by bunderful at 3:45 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Do people volunteer, or are they assigned for the longer speeches?
posted by codacorolla at 3:50 PM on June 5, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 3:50 PM on June 5, 2015
I've been a Toastmaster for nearly two years and have just started a new club.
Toastmasters provides an environment where you can practice and improve both communication and leadership skills. You do this by watching, doing and through feedback and evaluations. All of these elements are integral to Toastmasters. We all learn from each other, we all give feedback and evaluate each other and we all practice speeches in front of each other. We are all in the same boat. We all want to improve. We want our fellow members to improve too.
The meetings (usually twice a month, usually evenings) are very structured with a lot of formality. Meetings include three main elements (the order depends on the club):
- prepared speeches (3-4) between 4-6 mins or 10-12 mins
- evaluations of the prepared speeches - 2-3 mins (verbal and written)
- impromptu speeches called Table Topics[tm] - 1-2 mins on an unprepared subject (about 5 speakers)
Each meeting is conducted by a different set of members.:
- Toastmaster of the evening is the compere, running the meeting
- the Timer uses traffic timing lights to show speakers when they're nearing the end
- a Table Topics Master runs the session of impromptu speeches, setting topics, calling people up
- there are Evaluators for each Speaker - they write and deliver their verbal evaluation during the meeting
- the Table Topics Evaluator gives an evaluation on all the Table Topic Speakers
- the General Evaluator evaluates everyone else as well as the meeting itself
- the Grammarian counts "umm"s, "ahhs", bad and good use of English (host language) and gives a report at the end
Depending on the club, there might be a Videographer, Breakmaster, Warm-Up Master.
The structure that Toastmasters provides is through various educational manuals. When you join, you get a Competent Communicator manual and a Competent Leader manual.
There are 10 speech projects in the first, each telling you how to approach it. When you finish, you get an award, a special badge and can the go to the next stage if you want (Advanced Communicator Bronze) by doing speeches from advanced manuals (such as persuasive speaking, speaking to inform, humorously speaking, special occasions speaking).
There are various tasks to do in the Competent Leadership manual. These are mostly taking on meeting roles. However, the are also things like help with the club web site, chair a club contest, chair a committee, organise a special event). Once completed, you get an award and can go to the next stage if you want.
There is also a club committee which changes each year: President, VP Education, VP Membership, VP PR, Treasurer, Secretary, Sergeant-at-Arms
The ultimate achievement (which takes years) is DTM = Distinguished Toastmaster. That's things like doing 40 speeches, holding officer roles, starting a new club, running a youth leadership program, doing educational speeches.
Toastmaster clubs can be open to everyone (over 18) = community club, an advanced club or a corporate club. Meetings can be morning, afternoons or evenings. It's very cost-effective. Membership fees depend on the club costs. The clubs are non-profit organisations.
It's free to attend a community club as a guest. Different clubs have different ways of doing things. Some are small some are very large, some more formal, some informal. It's worth visiting a few to see which you like.
Find your nearest club using the Find A Club link on toastmasters.org
Finally, if you're in or near Ascot, UK, please do visit. We are a brand new club with the luxury of flexibility because the founding members will get to define the club.
The web site is a work in progress: www.ascotspeakers.org.uk
Since joining Toastmasters, I've done a Lightning talk in front of 120 people and have a 20-min talk at a conference to a similar number.
I was a really crappy public speaker before that - sweating, shaking, mumbling voice, mind going blank, terrified. It wasn't until I joined Toastmasters that I realised I was a bad public speaker because I accepted myself as such. I therefore worried, got nervous, was anxious and MADE myself bad.
My first Toastmaster speech wasn't bad, though. Because joining Toastmasters allowed me to think I wasn't stuck with "bad public speaker", that I could learn to be better.
My first Toastmasters speech is at https://pootability.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/the-daft-things-that-people-have-said-to-me/
I'm happy to answer any more questions you might have about Toastmasters.
I hope this helps.
Paola
posted by paolability at 3:54 PM on June 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
Toastmasters provides an environment where you can practice and improve both communication and leadership skills. You do this by watching, doing and through feedback and evaluations. All of these elements are integral to Toastmasters. We all learn from each other, we all give feedback and evaluate each other and we all practice speeches in front of each other. We are all in the same boat. We all want to improve. We want our fellow members to improve too.
The meetings (usually twice a month, usually evenings) are very structured with a lot of formality. Meetings include three main elements (the order depends on the club):
- prepared speeches (3-4) between 4-6 mins or 10-12 mins
- evaluations of the prepared speeches - 2-3 mins (verbal and written)
- impromptu speeches called Table Topics[tm] - 1-2 mins on an unprepared subject (about 5 speakers)
Each meeting is conducted by a different set of members.:
- Toastmaster of the evening is the compere, running the meeting
- the Timer uses traffic timing lights to show speakers when they're nearing the end
- a Table Topics Master runs the session of impromptu speeches, setting topics, calling people up
- there are Evaluators for each Speaker - they write and deliver their verbal evaluation during the meeting
- the Table Topics Evaluator gives an evaluation on all the Table Topic Speakers
- the General Evaluator evaluates everyone else as well as the meeting itself
- the Grammarian counts "umm"s, "ahhs", bad and good use of English (host language) and gives a report at the end
Depending on the club, there might be a Videographer, Breakmaster, Warm-Up Master.
The structure that Toastmasters provides is through various educational manuals. When you join, you get a Competent Communicator manual and a Competent Leader manual.
There are 10 speech projects in the first, each telling you how to approach it. When you finish, you get an award, a special badge and can the go to the next stage if you want (Advanced Communicator Bronze) by doing speeches from advanced manuals (such as persuasive speaking, speaking to inform, humorously speaking, special occasions speaking).
There are various tasks to do in the Competent Leadership manual. These are mostly taking on meeting roles. However, the are also things like help with the club web site, chair a club contest, chair a committee, organise a special event). Once completed, you get an award and can go to the next stage if you want.
There is also a club committee which changes each year: President, VP Education, VP Membership, VP PR, Treasurer, Secretary, Sergeant-at-Arms
The ultimate achievement (which takes years) is DTM = Distinguished Toastmaster. That's things like doing 40 speeches, holding officer roles, starting a new club, running a youth leadership program, doing educational speeches.
Toastmaster clubs can be open to everyone (over 18) = community club, an advanced club or a corporate club. Meetings can be morning, afternoons or evenings. It's very cost-effective. Membership fees depend on the club costs. The clubs are non-profit organisations.
It's free to attend a community club as a guest. Different clubs have different ways of doing things. Some are small some are very large, some more formal, some informal. It's worth visiting a few to see which you like.
Find your nearest club using the Find A Club link on toastmasters.org
Finally, if you're in or near Ascot, UK, please do visit. We are a brand new club with the luxury of flexibility because the founding members will get to define the club.
The web site is a work in progress: www.ascotspeakers.org.uk
Since joining Toastmasters, I've done a Lightning talk in front of 120 people and have a 20-min talk at a conference to a similar number.
I was a really crappy public speaker before that - sweating, shaking, mumbling voice, mind going blank, terrified. It wasn't until I joined Toastmasters that I realised I was a bad public speaker because I accepted myself as such. I therefore worried, got nervous, was anxious and MADE myself bad.
My first Toastmaster speech wasn't bad, though. Because joining Toastmasters allowed me to think I wasn't stuck with "bad public speaker", that I could learn to be better.
My first Toastmasters speech is at https://pootability.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/the-daft-things-that-people-have-said-to-me/
I'm happy to answer any more questions you might have about Toastmasters.
I hope this helps.
Paola
posted by paolability at 3:54 PM on June 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
It really depends on the group. I checked out two in my area which ended up being similar in terms of the people - for me, it honestly came down to the simple fact that in the group I am now in (I've been a member for about 14 months, and will be ending my 12-month term as Secretary next week) sat in a circle instead of having all the chairs facing the same direction.
There is a basic format to the meeting, but every club is a little different, and for that matter, some clubs change their personality quickly when they get an influx of new people. The essential format is as bunderful laid out. In my club, we don't do joke of the day, but we do word of the day and we often have a meeting theme. We also do table topics between the speeches and the evaluations.
In my experience Toastmasters members are welcoming as a rule, but each club varies widely in what manner of welcome you get. My club, for example, has a lot of folks in civil service/other office roles, and so you get a lot of typical "office chitchat" but little to no intellectual conversation. Other clubs are the opposite.
Bear in mind you can also guest multiple times at a club. You can opt out of all participation, or participate as much as you like. If your focus is in presentations, tell the folks at the club that. Some clubs do lots of that style, while others focus more on speeches of a less informative variety (sales, for example).
To answer your second question, people sign up for speeches. You don't have to do a speech until you're ready. We have a 10+ year member at my club who hasn't actually done a speech in over four years, and another ~3 month member who is already six speeches in. You go at your own speed.
Feel free to message me with further questions.
posted by Urban Winter at 3:55 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
There is a basic format to the meeting, but every club is a little different, and for that matter, some clubs change their personality quickly when they get an influx of new people. The essential format is as bunderful laid out. In my club, we don't do joke of the day, but we do word of the day and we often have a meeting theme. We also do table topics between the speeches and the evaluations.
In my experience Toastmasters members are welcoming as a rule, but each club varies widely in what manner of welcome you get. My club, for example, has a lot of folks in civil service/other office roles, and so you get a lot of typical "office chitchat" but little to no intellectual conversation. Other clubs are the opposite.
Bear in mind you can also guest multiple times at a club. You can opt out of all participation, or participate as much as you like. If your focus is in presentations, tell the folks at the club that. Some clubs do lots of that style, while others focus more on speeches of a less informative variety (sales, for example).
To answer your second question, people sign up for speeches. You don't have to do a speech until you're ready. We have a 10+ year member at my club who hasn't actually done a speech in over four years, and another ~3 month member who is already six speeches in. You go at your own speed.
Feel free to message me with further questions.
posted by Urban Winter at 3:55 PM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
FWIW, which is probably little since I haven't done Toastmasters myself, I have once or twice seen an academic speaker using presentation/public-speaking tricks that they learned from Toastmasters that came across as pretty inappropriate for an academic setting. (I know they got this stuff from Toastmasters because the people specifically said so.) Mostly the problem was going way too far with trying to lighten the mood — "fun" PowerPoint animations distracting from data slides, embarrassing attempts at humor, de-contenting a talk meant for a PhD audience down to the freshman level, that kind of thing. Toastmasters does seem very good for confidence-building and speaking skills and I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from going, but I'd just remind you to be aware while you do it that some of the specific tricks they teach can read as unprofessional or go against academic mores/etiquette.
posted by RogerB at 4:06 PM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by RogerB at 4:06 PM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
People sign up for speeches, generally after they become members and have received a manual.
posted by bunderful at 4:10 PM on June 5, 2015
posted by bunderful at 4:10 PM on June 5, 2015
I haven't been myself (have considered it but usually I'm busy that night here), but someone I know went and she said they really nitpick your speech, like they count all of your "ums" and things like that. If that makes you uncomfortable, that might not quite be your thing--or at least it wasn't hers.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:57 PM on June 5, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:57 PM on June 5, 2015
Clubs vary a lot in how they conduct meetings and what their attitudes are toward evaluation (and most clubs will tailor the evaluation to the person speaking, so you can get feedback on what you'd most like to improve.) Some clubs appoint a dedicated ah-counter. Others don't. Some even do a clicker thing at the moment of, which I find distracting -- but other people like that instant feedback!
I can't top bunderful and Paola's descriptions of how club meetings are usually structured, but would encourage you to give any clubs that fit your schedule a try, since they all have a different feel to them. Some are better organized than others, better at welcoming newcomers, or have convenient plans for dinner or drinks afterward.
Table Topics is probably the most variable segment among clubs -- some clubs try to include everyone at least once (or at least everyone who isn't giving a speech that meeting), others limit it to just a few. (I'm not a fan of the latter. IMO meetings are more fun when everyone gets at least one chance to speak, assuming it doesn't totally break the schedule.)
And some clubs have better advice than others. For the most part you should be learning to tailor your speaking to the topic and audience, rather than trying to use all your skills in every presentation. Toastmasters does have projects for things like using humor and visual aids effectively, but just because you can doesn't mean you always should! The best way to make sure you're getting the right feedback for your profession would be to find a club that has members of your profession. This is why workplace clubs are a thing.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned above is how much Toastmasters can improve your listening skills. It might not be what you're intending to work on, but it can help anyone professionally and personally. It's improved my relationships, and makes me look good at work.
I miss my old club (I was president until I moved away!) and haven't found one in my new city that I've really clicked with. I need to keep at it -- there are a ton here, and I could use the practice. Communication skills can always be improved, and I like listening to people talk about wildly different topics. In some ways it's a lot like MetaFilter. The common goal is good, enjoyable, informative communication, and ideally the club's working together to make that happen.
posted by asperity at 6:25 PM on June 5, 2015
I can't top bunderful and Paola's descriptions of how club meetings are usually structured, but would encourage you to give any clubs that fit your schedule a try, since they all have a different feel to them. Some are better organized than others, better at welcoming newcomers, or have convenient plans for dinner or drinks afterward.
Table Topics is probably the most variable segment among clubs -- some clubs try to include everyone at least once (or at least everyone who isn't giving a speech that meeting), others limit it to just a few. (I'm not a fan of the latter. IMO meetings are more fun when everyone gets at least one chance to speak, assuming it doesn't totally break the schedule.)
And some clubs have better advice than others. For the most part you should be learning to tailor your speaking to the topic and audience, rather than trying to use all your skills in every presentation. Toastmasters does have projects for things like using humor and visual aids effectively, but just because you can doesn't mean you always should! The best way to make sure you're getting the right feedback for your profession would be to find a club that has members of your profession. This is why workplace clubs are a thing.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned above is how much Toastmasters can improve your listening skills. It might not be what you're intending to work on, but it can help anyone professionally and personally. It's improved my relationships, and makes me look good at work.
I miss my old club (I was president until I moved away!) and haven't found one in my new city that I've really clicked with. I need to keep at it -- there are a ton here, and I could use the practice. Communication skills can always be improved, and I like listening to people talk about wildly different topics. In some ways it's a lot like MetaFilter. The common goal is good, enjoyable, informative communication, and ideally the club's working together to make that happen.
posted by asperity at 6:25 PM on June 5, 2015
Building on what people have mentioned above: What I have found most helpful in Toastmasters is the structure. Meetings have a clearly-defined agenda, reliably recurring segments, and specific roles. The workbooks have distinct speech projects that you work through one at a time to improve your skills. It's great to have a predictable environment and obvious step-by-step progression - it lets you relax and focus rather than feeling unsettled by not knowing what to expect next.
Another great aspect is having a regular place to practice. Even if you're not giving a prepared speech, the meetings have plenty of opportunities to speak (table topics, evaluating speeches, taking on roles like Timer). It lets you get accustomed to speaking in front of others and really helps to reduce the scariness and unfamiliarity.
I have only ever participated in one club, so I can't comment from experience, but I get the impression that the strictness can vary by club. My club is pretty gentle and people get away with more mistakes than they probably should. But I actually appreciate that. I just want that regular practice space, not some fierce challenge or trial by fire. This may be something you could ask about or watch for when you visit meetings as a guest.
posted by cadge at 7:38 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Another great aspect is having a regular place to practice. Even if you're not giving a prepared speech, the meetings have plenty of opportunities to speak (table topics, evaluating speeches, taking on roles like Timer). It lets you get accustomed to speaking in front of others and really helps to reduce the scariness and unfamiliarity.
I have only ever participated in one club, so I can't comment from experience, but I get the impression that the strictness can vary by club. My club is pretty gentle and people get away with more mistakes than they probably should. But I actually appreciate that. I just want that regular practice space, not some fierce challenge or trial by fire. This may be something you could ask about or watch for when you visit meetings as a guest.
posted by cadge at 7:38 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's a lot of great information here. But, it's worth emphasizing that one can't possibly stress enough the huge diversity among toastmasters groups. I was involved in one for about three years (completed the CTM, dabbled in the next certification before getting leaving town) and have visited around six other clubs since then without joining any.
My anecdotal impression is that clubs tend to conform to the personalities of the first few strong leaders who become involved in the organization. Some are pitched at alpha-male salesmen trying to climb the corporate ladder, some are filled with non-native speakers in the tech sector, some are filled with artists and writers struggling with book tours, etc. The national organization is mighty sales-oriented and socially conservative, and (at least for me) their materials are extremely off-putting in tone. But, local groups can be dramatically different and many of them are genuinely great and full of interesting people.
As an academic who mostly speaks to groups of peers, I found the norms and expectations of a toastmasters club so different from what one encounters in a technical talk it wasn't all that useful in terms of professional development. Talking about research in a room full of experts is a very different thing from making up humorous nonsense for two minutes on the news of the day. (Unfortunately, for me the first is hard, and the second effortless.) But, it definitely taught me some things about body language and control of filler-words. And, as practice for outreach talks to a general audience, it's incredibly valuable. Finding a general audience who will give you honest negative feedback is a great thing. Figuring out which bits of your popular talk lost the audience is worth a lot.
posted by eotvos at 6:51 AM on June 6, 2015
My anecdotal impression is that clubs tend to conform to the personalities of the first few strong leaders who become involved in the organization. Some are pitched at alpha-male salesmen trying to climb the corporate ladder, some are filled with non-native speakers in the tech sector, some are filled with artists and writers struggling with book tours, etc. The national organization is mighty sales-oriented and socially conservative, and (at least for me) their materials are extremely off-putting in tone. But, local groups can be dramatically different and many of them are genuinely great and full of interesting people.
As an academic who mostly speaks to groups of peers, I found the norms and expectations of a toastmasters club so different from what one encounters in a technical talk it wasn't all that useful in terms of professional development. Talking about research in a room full of experts is a very different thing from making up humorous nonsense for two minutes on the news of the day. (Unfortunately, for me the first is hard, and the second effortless.) But, it definitely taught me some things about body language and control of filler-words. And, as practice for outreach talks to a general audience, it's incredibly valuable. Finding a general audience who will give you honest negative feedback is a great thing. Figuring out which bits of your popular talk lost the audience is worth a lot.
posted by eotvos at 6:51 AM on June 6, 2015
It's interesting read in the comments how a Toastmasters might not be suited for academics.
Toastmasters provides an environment for practicing and improving. What I've been telling new members at Ascot is to use the club to make it work for them. If they need to do a presentation at work or a talk at a conference, find a way to segment it so that you can practice 5-7 min chunks at meetings. If you want experience on a specific kind of thing, ask the VP Education how the club can help you.
The essential tools Toastmaster give you (through its manuals) are independent of the type of talk. So you look at structure of talk, use of voice, getting your message across, use of body language, use of audio-visual aids.
I agree that listening is also a skill you learn. Also how to structure and deliver feedback.
Paola
posted by paolability at 11:31 AM on June 6, 2015
Toastmasters provides an environment for practicing and improving. What I've been telling new members at Ascot is to use the club to make it work for them. If they need to do a presentation at work or a talk at a conference, find a way to segment it so that you can practice 5-7 min chunks at meetings. If you want experience on a specific kind of thing, ask the VP Education how the club can help you.
The essential tools Toastmaster give you (through its manuals) are independent of the type of talk. So you look at structure of talk, use of voice, getting your message across, use of body language, use of audio-visual aids.
I agree that listening is also a skill you learn. Also how to structure and deliver feedback.
Paola
posted by paolability at 11:31 AM on June 6, 2015
I was in Toastmasters for 2 years back in the late '80s. Possibly everything I'm going to say has already been said, but...
- it's a good format for beginners/awkward speakers to get from there to -- less awkward, more experienced speakers.
- IMO it's less good at taking you from -- somewhere in the middle to very professional/good.
I think so many people come in, get that first piece knocked out, and then there's something about the format and the average competence of the people involved that turns a lot of people away, unfortunately. People who make their living doing public speaking, parliamentary procedure, etc. (politicians, chamber people, and the like) often look down on the program because too many people involved in it are amateur enthusiasts, not professionals who need the skills in their job.
There's no good reason that it happens this way - the club meeting format would support some really good analysis up to any level. I think that it happens due to the eccentricity of some of the people who get really, really wrapped up in it, which turns better speakers away. Recently a Toastmaster turned up at the Rotary Club I was in and gave this really excellent oratory in character as some historical figure -- that lasted about 45 minutes longer than it should have. This doesn't help the image of the organization any.
My experience in clubs was in civilian, community-oriented clubs. It may be that the professional standards are a bit higher at the corporate clubs, clubs based on military installations where their members are officers who have to do briefings, etc.
I would avoid getting sucked into area, district, and state leadership, as you wind up with people who are -- a bit too wrapped up in the whole thing and seem to be looking for meaning in their life in the club. This is true of a lot of things in life, so nobody think I'm singling them out unduly.
My advice is to jump in, get your CTM, and bail in a year or two unless you're just loving it. And if how well you speak in public is important to your career or life, I would also look for mentors in your field who may not be willing to listen to your speeches week in and week out, but who can give you advice on professional standards in your particular area.
As a possible counter-suggestion if you don't click with the Toastmasters in your area, you might also look into civic clubs like Kiwanis, Rotary, etc. Those environments are not structured as training grounds in the same way, but they do also afford chances to get up, make announcements, talk about programs, etc. in a lower-risk setting, and you also get to help your community (assuming said club is doing anything)...
posted by randomkeystrike at 4:51 PM on June 6, 2015
- it's a good format for beginners/awkward speakers to get from there to -- less awkward, more experienced speakers.
- IMO it's less good at taking you from -- somewhere in the middle to very professional/good.
I think so many people come in, get that first piece knocked out, and then there's something about the format and the average competence of the people involved that turns a lot of people away, unfortunately. People who make their living doing public speaking, parliamentary procedure, etc. (politicians, chamber people, and the like) often look down on the program because too many people involved in it are amateur enthusiasts, not professionals who need the skills in their job.
There's no good reason that it happens this way - the club meeting format would support some really good analysis up to any level. I think that it happens due to the eccentricity of some of the people who get really, really wrapped up in it, which turns better speakers away. Recently a Toastmaster turned up at the Rotary Club I was in and gave this really excellent oratory in character as some historical figure -- that lasted about 45 minutes longer than it should have. This doesn't help the image of the organization any.
My experience in clubs was in civilian, community-oriented clubs. It may be that the professional standards are a bit higher at the corporate clubs, clubs based on military installations where their members are officers who have to do briefings, etc.
I would avoid getting sucked into area, district, and state leadership, as you wind up with people who are -- a bit too wrapped up in the whole thing and seem to be looking for meaning in their life in the club. This is true of a lot of things in life, so nobody think I'm singling them out unduly.
My advice is to jump in, get your CTM, and bail in a year or two unless you're just loving it. And if how well you speak in public is important to your career or life, I would also look for mentors in your field who may not be willing to listen to your speeches week in and week out, but who can give you advice on professional standards in your particular area.
As a possible counter-suggestion if you don't click with the Toastmasters in your area, you might also look into civic clubs like Kiwanis, Rotary, etc. Those environments are not structured as training grounds in the same way, but they do also afford chances to get up, make announcements, talk about programs, etc. in a lower-risk setting, and you also get to help your community (assuming said club is doing anything)...
posted by randomkeystrike at 4:51 PM on June 6, 2015
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I'm in toastmasters and its been really good.
posted by exois at 2:44 PM on June 5, 2015