How can I get my roommates to clean up after themselves?
May 16, 2015 8:26 AM Subscribe
I and my spouse own a three bedroom house, and live there with four roommates, two dogs, and a dismaying number of parakeets. My roommates are generally considerate, and we work around each other as best we can, but they just will. not. clean. without someone directly telling them that it needs to be done. Since I and my spouse have the lowest tolerance for dirt, we end up doing it.
Snowflake: my roommates are my adult children and their significant others.
My roommates are in their mid 20's, stay free of rent, and are provided with all the food they care to eat. I love my children very much, but they're driving me bananas.
None of us is particularly happy with the current housing situation. But, the economy being what it is, this is the way it's likely to stay for a while. Also, my wife won't hear of asking them to leave, and doesn't like asking them to clean, and refuses to engage with me when I bring it up with her.... (sigh).
I mostly care for the dogs, the spouse cares for the 'keets, so there's not much of an issue there. But I've also cleaned the kitchen four times this week, the spouse has done so twice. There's constantly trash on the floor, urine spilled in the bathroom (come on guys, really?), empty bottles of shampoo and makeup cases and toilet paper rolls laying around, towers of trash in the trash cans and recycling, bags and books and old dishes and just *stuff* on every available surface.... The roommates will pick things up if I actively hunt them down and ask and then check to see if they did it. But I can't seem to get them to take daily responsibility for the mess they make. They just don't see it.
I've tried getting a cleaning schedule going, and it was ignored. I've reminded them, texted them, pleaded with them... things will be good for about a week, and then they just go back to the way it was.
To be clear, I only care about the shared areas, not their private rooms. Except for the old food I've seen in there. (/shudder)
I'm tired and outnumbered and overrun, and quite very seriously considering just moving to my own apartment. Any ideas would be most appreciated.
My roommates are in their mid 20's, stay free of rent, and are provided with all the food they care to eat. I love my children very much, but they're driving me bananas.
None of us is particularly happy with the current housing situation. But, the economy being what it is, this is the way it's likely to stay for a while. Also, my wife won't hear of asking them to leave, and doesn't like asking them to clean, and refuses to engage with me when I bring it up with her.... (sigh).
I mostly care for the dogs, the spouse cares for the 'keets, so there's not much of an issue there. But I've also cleaned the kitchen four times this week, the spouse has done so twice. There's constantly trash on the floor, urine spilled in the bathroom (come on guys, really?), empty bottles of shampoo and makeup cases and toilet paper rolls laying around, towers of trash in the trash cans and recycling, bags and books and old dishes and just *stuff* on every available surface.... The roommates will pick things up if I actively hunt them down and ask and then check to see if they did it. But I can't seem to get them to take daily responsibility for the mess they make. They just don't see it.
I've tried getting a cleaning schedule going, and it was ignored. I've reminded them, texted them, pleaded with them... things will be good for about a week, and then they just go back to the way it was.
To be clear, I only care about the shared areas, not their private rooms. Except for the old food I've seen in there. (/shudder)
I'm tired and outnumbered and overrun, and quite very seriously considering just moving to my own apartment. Any ideas would be most appreciated.
They don't pay rent? Fabulous!
They and their partners now pay weekly for a cleaning service. You have in different services for estimates, making sure they know this will be weekly maintenance, and they are cleaning up mostly after people - you do the pets. Choose the service you are most comfortable with.
Your children are in their 20's. This is the bare minimum least they can do (pay for cleaning) since they don't want to do it themselves.
The lesson is, "If you won't do it, you can afford to hire someone to do it, but there is no free ride."
posted by jbenben at 8:37 AM on May 16, 2015 [36 favorites]
They and their partners now pay weekly for a cleaning service. You have in different services for estimates, making sure they know this will be weekly maintenance, and they are cleaning up mostly after people - you do the pets. Choose the service you are most comfortable with.
Your children are in their 20's. This is the bare minimum least they can do (pay for cleaning) since they don't want to do it themselves.
The lesson is, "If you won't do it, you can afford to hire someone to do it, but there is no free ride."
posted by jbenben at 8:37 AM on May 16, 2015 [36 favorites]
Oh man, this would drive me insane.
Thought 1: Charge them rent. I'm of the opinion that adult children need to pay rent. If you want to be nice, keep the rent in a separate savings account and think about giving it back when they move out. Or not, because you're providing them shelter.
Thought 2: Everything that does not belong in a public area gets thrown out. No ifs, ands, or buts. Then cleaning becomes much easier.
Thought 3: You and your wife get one bathroom that your roommates may not use. They can have their own nasty bathroom that you don't have to worry about.
Thought 4: Your roommates may not use the kitchen because they don't clean it.
Or kick them out, because oh gosh this would be awful to live in. I wish you luck.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 8:40 AM on May 16, 2015 [11 favorites]
Thought 1: Charge them rent. I'm of the opinion that adult children need to pay rent. If you want to be nice, keep the rent in a separate savings account and think about giving it back when they move out. Or not, because you're providing them shelter.
Thought 2: Everything that does not belong in a public area gets thrown out. No ifs, ands, or buts. Then cleaning becomes much easier.
Thought 3: You and your wife get one bathroom that your roommates may not use. They can have their own nasty bathroom that you don't have to worry about.
Thought 4: Your roommates may not use the kitchen because they don't clean it.
Or kick them out, because oh gosh this would be awful to live in. I wish you luck.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 8:40 AM on May 16, 2015 [11 favorites]
You might also consider giving them ownership of some utility bills as well.
I get that they don't pay rent, but this set-up is ridiculous. They have zero sense of what it takes to live.
Gently point out to your wife that you are not helping them if they are not learning about budgeting and responsibility. These are hard skills they will need to navigate adulthood. These are skills they are lacking. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 8:42 AM on May 16, 2015 [25 favorites]
I get that they don't pay rent, but this set-up is ridiculous. They have zero sense of what it takes to live.
Gently point out to your wife that you are not helping them if they are not learning about budgeting and responsibility. These are hard skills they will need to navigate adulthood. These are skills they are lacking. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 8:42 AM on May 16, 2015 [25 favorites]
This sounds like a difficult situation. I have one suggestion to make: how about charging them a cleaning fee. You don't mention if your roommates have jobs, but this cleaning feel could be the equivalent of the cost of hiring part-time help to deal with the cleaning.
You could work out how many hours you and your wife spend each week with cleaning chores, multiply it by standard rates, divide it by four, charge each of them with one fourth. Whether you and your wife decide to actually hire someone to do the cleaning, or continue to clean up yourselves is totally up to you.
You and your ok sound great, and it's amazing how ok you are with your kids living with you rent free - not all parents! But a cleaning fee seems like one possibility to make them take responsibility for something that is entirely up to them, and does not depend on the job market.
posted by ipsative at 8:42 AM on May 16, 2015
You could work out how many hours you and your wife spend each week with cleaning chores, multiply it by standard rates, divide it by four, charge each of them with one fourth. Whether you and your wife decide to actually hire someone to do the cleaning, or continue to clean up yourselves is totally up to you.
You and your ok sound great, and it's amazing how ok you are with your kids living with you rent free - not all parents! But a cleaning fee seems like one possibility to make them take responsibility for something that is entirely up to them, and does not depend on the job market.
posted by ipsative at 8:42 AM on May 16, 2015
Is there a time you're all in the house together at once and have an hour or so? Why not schedule that as the family cleaning time, where you all take a part of the house and just getting it done? My partner and I are very lax on the deep cleaning (we're tidy, but I have a blind spot for floors), so when it's the weekend, we'll just start together and get it done, because we're together.
posted by xingcat at 8:45 AM on May 16, 2015
posted by xingcat at 8:45 AM on May 16, 2015
ugh
yes, I have to agree with some combination of charging for a cleaning service, and barring them from communal areas. With locks and keypads if you have to.
I don't know what good a weekly cleaning service is going to do for people who are probably capable of undoing the progress and then some within 10 seconds.
if people insist on peeing on your floor, feel free to do something equally unpleasant to them.
posted by tel3path at 8:45 AM on May 16, 2015
yes, I have to agree with some combination of charging for a cleaning service, and barring them from communal areas. With locks and keypads if you have to.
I don't know what good a weekly cleaning service is going to do for people who are probably capable of undoing the progress and then some within 10 seconds.
if people insist on peeing on your floor, feel free to do something equally unpleasant to them.
posted by tel3path at 8:45 AM on May 16, 2015
Charge for a cleaning service. Make sure they are aware that parakeets cannot safely be exposed to a lot of modern cleaners, air fresheners. Get a quote for cleaning with safe cleaners.
Honestly the best thing you can do for them is charge them room & board. Treat them like adults. If they are on hard times charge them accordingly, but charge them so them something. You are not helping them by making them incapable of living on their own. My FIL did this for my husband and surprised him by actually saved the money for him in a savings account so when he moved out he got a lump sum to help with furniture, down payments etc, so he helped him in two ways.
My reaction to mess would be to pick it all up & just dump it in their room, with a if it means so much to you you can't throw it out it's yours to keep but not in communal areas.
You are their parents not their friends or roommates, your job to parent them & teach them to stand on their own two feet does not end just because they are adults (though in this case it sounds like they are adult in age only).
posted by wwax at 8:46 AM on May 16, 2015 [14 favorites]
Honestly the best thing you can do for them is charge them room & board. Treat them like adults. If they are on hard times charge them accordingly, but charge them so them something. You are not helping them by making them incapable of living on their own. My FIL did this for my husband and surprised him by actually saved the money for him in a savings account so when he moved out he got a lump sum to help with furniture, down payments etc, so he helped him in two ways.
My reaction to mess would be to pick it all up & just dump it in their room, with a if it means so much to you you can't throw it out it's yours to keep but not in communal areas.
You are their parents not their friends or roommates, your job to parent them & teach them to stand on their own two feet does not end just because they are adults (though in this case it sounds like they are adult in age only).
posted by wwax at 8:46 AM on May 16, 2015 [14 favorites]
oh and - I actually agree that it isn't necessary to charge family members rent for the sake of charging rent, but they ought to be contributing somehow to making the house EASIER for everyone to live in. Instead they're only making it harder. Ownership of utility bills sounds like a start.
posted by tel3path at 8:48 AM on May 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 8:48 AM on May 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
At least charge them rent, if you won't evict them. You are doing them zero favors by allowing them to live in your house, with free rent and food, with their significant others. This has gone beyond generosity; they're taking advantage of you. Even children are expected to clean up after themselves.
Don't move out yourself unless you've sold the place. That just gives them more free rein to pee on the floors and such. This is your house, and you have a right to live in it peacefully, no matter how hard times have gotten for your kids.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:55 AM on May 16, 2015 [15 favorites]
Don't move out yourself unless you've sold the place. That just gives them more free rein to pee on the floors and such. This is your house, and you have a right to live in it peacefully, no matter how hard times have gotten for your kids.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:55 AM on May 16, 2015 [15 favorites]
If they're not paying, they're not invested and have no reason to worry about upkeep of the house. They should either pay rent or pay for housecleaning.
Do they help in other ways around the house (yard care, cooking, laundry, etc) or are they just chillin'? The only place I know of where you can just chill is an all-inclusive resort. That sounds like what they're getting...for free! A sense of responsibility comes with being invested, either with an exchange of work or money.
posted by Elly Vortex at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2015
Do they help in other ways around the house (yard care, cooking, laundry, etc) or are they just chillin'? The only place I know of where you can just chill is an all-inclusive resort. That sounds like what they're getting...for free! A sense of responsibility comes with being invested, either with an exchange of work or money.
posted by Elly Vortex at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2015
Charge them board.
When I lived with family as a young adult there was no question of my staying free. I paid a notional amount of money towards my upkeep. This still allowed me to save lots and have more disposable income than when I moved into my own place with a much better salary a couple of years later.
It made it clear that I was now an adult and whilst they'd help me out by letting me live with them it was my responsibility to make a meaningful contribution to joint life. So I was charged an amount of money that probably covered incremental cost of my living there (food, utilities) and I was also made to participate in household chores, mainly cleaning or cooking as I really didn't care for gardening.
Absolutely ridiculous to have your adult children and their spouses staying with you and they all act like teenagers. They are no longer teenagers. You've done your bit by raising them. Anything you do now is a bonus and no longer your responsibility and they need to understand that and act like adults.
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
When I lived with family as a young adult there was no question of my staying free. I paid a notional amount of money towards my upkeep. This still allowed me to save lots and have more disposable income than when I moved into my own place with a much better salary a couple of years later.
It made it clear that I was now an adult and whilst they'd help me out by letting me live with them it was my responsibility to make a meaningful contribution to joint life. So I was charged an amount of money that probably covered incremental cost of my living there (food, utilities) and I was also made to participate in household chores, mainly cleaning or cooking as I really didn't care for gardening.
Absolutely ridiculous to have your adult children and their spouses staying with you and they all act like teenagers. They are no longer teenagers. You've done your bit by raising them. Anything you do now is a bonus and no longer your responsibility and they need to understand that and act like adults.
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'd also recommend getting them to financially contribute to the pay of a cleaner. Problem is that most cleaners are also there to clean, not tidy, so the duff job of cleaning their belongings off all surfaces is still going to fall to someone. The other problem is one you've found out already -- that nothing is going to change unless your spouse is on board.
You sound like you're desperately stressed and I'm really sorry. I think you need to let her know that you're legitimately on the brink of trying to escape your four roomies, two dogs, and the dismaying parakeets. It may provide a needed wake-up call to present a unified front.
posted by monster truck weekend at 8:57 AM on May 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
You sound like you're desperately stressed and I'm really sorry. I think you need to let her know that you're legitimately on the brink of trying to escape your four roomies, two dogs, and the dismaying parakeets. It may provide a needed wake-up call to present a unified front.
posted by monster truck weekend at 8:57 AM on May 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Instead of offering the same reasonable advice that everyone else here offers, I'm going to channel the Bro Internet from a decade ago and say: sever.
Seriously, I lived in shared houses for most of two decades and wouldn't put up with that from my closest friends. Now that I have two kids in the house (8y and 2y) I still don't put up with it. I just tell them what my standards are, and take away privileges if they don't meet those standards. I have a legal obligation to house mine; you don't have that. So I can't say "look BLF Jr, clean up the Legos you dumped out, or you can live somewhere else."
But if your relationships w/spouse and offspring are so entangled as to make that difficult or impossible, you may want to hire one of those hoarder-cleanup crews for a one-time deep clean. Then buy a bunch of plastic bins. Then, whenever stuff accumulates, sweep it into bins and deposit said bins in their beds.
posted by BrunoLatourFanclub at 9:04 AM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seriously, I lived in shared houses for most of two decades and wouldn't put up with that from my closest friends. Now that I have two kids in the house (8y and 2y) I still don't put up with it. I just tell them what my standards are, and take away privileges if they don't meet those standards. I have a legal obligation to house mine; you don't have that. So I can't say "look BLF Jr, clean up the Legos you dumped out, or you can live somewhere else."
But if your relationships w/spouse and offspring are so entangled as to make that difficult or impossible, you may want to hire one of those hoarder-cleanup crews for a one-time deep clean. Then buy a bunch of plastic bins. Then, whenever stuff accumulates, sweep it into bins and deposit said bins in their beds.
posted by BrunoLatourFanclub at 9:04 AM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nthing the thought of just hiring a weekly cleaning service at their expense, split between the four of them. It's cheaper than real rent almost no matter where you are, and... well, at least in my experience, there is no amount of lecturing, pleading, or talking at someone that's going to make them change their standard of cleanliness. Definitely also draw a line between "your" bathroom and "their" bathroom if you have more than one; shared bathrooms and kitchens are almost always cleanliness flashpoints between adult roommates for a reason.
posted by tautological at 9:15 AM on May 16, 2015
posted by tautological at 9:15 AM on May 16, 2015
Hire someone, but instead of a setup where they come for 5 hours on Thursday or whatever, get some kind of setup where you can pay for as much cleaning as necessary as often as necessary. Then have a list of things that constitute a clean house:
- Garbage in the trash
- Toilets clean
- Dishes washed
etc.
And a subset of these items that are "Time to clean" triggers: Urine on the floor (seriously?? WTF?), old food left out, wherever else you want to draw the line.
Now have a cleaning person come at least once a week and stay until everything on list A is done. If anything on list B should happen before the week is up, call for an extra "session" immediately. If someone is coming in every day to wipe up around the toilet and charging their 2 hour minimum, there will be no more urine no the floor. If a cleaner home translates into fewer hours they have to pay for once a week, they more likely they are to do some maintenance during the week, even on the non-trigger items.
Absolutely do not set up a situation where you order a weekly service and then live in squalor (except for 10 minutes every week after the service comes) because your kids will come to see paying for the cleaning as buying a license to make a mess.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:16 AM on May 16, 2015 [18 favorites]
- Garbage in the trash
- Toilets clean
- Dishes washed
etc.
And a subset of these items that are "Time to clean" triggers: Urine on the floor (seriously?? WTF?), old food left out, wherever else you want to draw the line.
Now have a cleaning person come at least once a week and stay until everything on list A is done. If anything on list B should happen before the week is up, call for an extra "session" immediately. If someone is coming in every day to wipe up around the toilet and charging their 2 hour minimum, there will be no more urine no the floor. If a cleaner home translates into fewer hours they have to pay for once a week, they more likely they are to do some maintenance during the week, even on the non-trigger items.
Absolutely do not set up a situation where you order a weekly service and then live in squalor (except for 10 minutes every week after the service comes) because your kids will come to see paying for the cleaning as buying a license to make a mess.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:16 AM on May 16, 2015 [18 favorites]
Every time you clean up after them, take a picture with your phone and text it to all of them. Describe what you don't like in that situation and what you would like them to do differently. Do this relentlessly every time, even if it is 10 times a day.
And yes, I agree that charging them a cleaning fee for the work you spend cleaning up after them would be reasonable. Or hire a cleaning service to come as often as necessary, even every day, and charge them for it. It's your house, you should be able to insist on the the standard of cleanliness you prefer.
posted by mai at 9:17 AM on May 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
And yes, I agree that charging them a cleaning fee for the work you spend cleaning up after them would be reasonable. Or hire a cleaning service to come as often as necessary, even every day, and charge them for it. It's your house, you should be able to insist on the the standard of cleanliness you prefer.
posted by mai at 9:17 AM on May 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, my wife won't hear of asking them to leave, and doesn't like asking them to clean, and refuses to engage with me when I bring it up with her.... (sigh).
I think it would be best to deal with this first. You aren't going to be able to solve this alone and you shouldn't have to. Your wife needs to understand that this is something important to you and be willing to work with you on it. It's one thing to disagree about something but to refuse to even discuss it? Nope.
Then you need to figure out some leverage otherwise your wife will continue to ignore your needs and your children and their SOs will continue to take advantage of you. Charging rent/room/board/cleaning fee is all well and good but what repercussions can you put in place if they refuse? You need to have those lined up first. And be willing to enforce them. Period. No asking or pleading or reminding. No second chances.
Basic cleanliness and respect and responsibility shouldn't have to be explained. But apparently they do, so it's time for a family meeting. (And tell your wife in advance):
"I'm tired of cleaning up after and babying grown ass adults. We are not doing our children and their SOs any favors by not treating them like adults. In fact, we are actually harming them by not teaching them basic life skills. What if we were hit by a bus tomorrow? How would our children know how to take care of themselves? We will have a family meeting. We will agree to a cleaning schedule/rent/cleaning fees/household budget for food and utilities. If our adult children or their SOs do not follow through, this will happen (I will stop buying food for everyone/start throwing out property left in common areas/evict SOs/evict children/move out and put the house up for sale/other serious repercussion)." And I will repeat this - you must be willing to follow through. Be a hard ass on this. Otherwise, they will continue to ignore you and you will continue to be miserable.
And, seriously, it's one thing to feel responsible for your children but tell the SOs to GTFO. There's absolutely no reason for you to be supporting these people.
Good luck!
posted by Beti at 9:17 AM on May 16, 2015 [31 favorites]
I think it would be best to deal with this first. You aren't going to be able to solve this alone and you shouldn't have to. Your wife needs to understand that this is something important to you and be willing to work with you on it. It's one thing to disagree about something but to refuse to even discuss it? Nope.
Then you need to figure out some leverage otherwise your wife will continue to ignore your needs and your children and their SOs will continue to take advantage of you. Charging rent/room/board/cleaning fee is all well and good but what repercussions can you put in place if they refuse? You need to have those lined up first. And be willing to enforce them. Period. No asking or pleading or reminding. No second chances.
Basic cleanliness and respect and responsibility shouldn't have to be explained. But apparently they do, so it's time for a family meeting. (And tell your wife in advance):
"I'm tired of cleaning up after and babying grown ass adults. We are not doing our children and their SOs any favors by not treating them like adults. In fact, we are actually harming them by not teaching them basic life skills. What if we were hit by a bus tomorrow? How would our children know how to take care of themselves? We will have a family meeting. We will agree to a cleaning schedule/rent/cleaning fees/household budget for food and utilities. If our adult children or their SOs do not follow through, this will happen (I will stop buying food for everyone/start throwing out property left in common areas/evict SOs/evict children/move out and put the house up for sale/other serious repercussion)." And I will repeat this - you must be willing to follow through. Be a hard ass on this. Otherwise, they will continue to ignore you and you will continue to be miserable.
And, seriously, it's one thing to feel responsible for your children but tell the SOs to GTFO. There's absolutely no reason for you to be supporting these people.
Good luck!
posted by Beti at 9:17 AM on May 16, 2015 [31 favorites]
The children actually aren't the problem. Your wife is putting everyone else's needs (especially her own) in front of yours. That isn't a partnership - that is making you a doormat. Having the children move out be off the table as an option just because she won't entertain the idea is not working together as a team.
None of us is particularly happy with the current housing situation. But, the economy being what it is, this is the way it's likely to stay for a while.
Yeah, the economy sucks but there are options for them to live elsewhere. If the local economy doesn't provide them with decent paying jobs so they can afford their own place then they need to move where the jobs are
Can you get into mediation or counselling to get your wife to decide if she is on team Marriage (and thus behaves like you are a priority) or team Infantising Adult children?
posted by saucysault at 9:21 AM on May 16, 2015 [22 favorites]
None of us is particularly happy with the current housing situation. But, the economy being what it is, this is the way it's likely to stay for a while.
Yeah, the economy sucks but there are options for them to live elsewhere. If the local economy doesn't provide them with decent paying jobs so they can afford their own place then they need to move where the jobs are
Can you get into mediation or counselling to get your wife to decide if she is on team Marriage (and thus behaves like you are a priority) or team Infantising Adult children?
posted by saucysault at 9:21 AM on May 16, 2015 [22 favorites]
Are you talking to your wife about this when you're frustrated? If so, try finding a time to discuss possible solutions in a calm moment when you haven't just walked into a mess.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:36 AM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bluedaisy at 10:36 AM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Turn your problem into the roommates' problem.
Call a house meeting, require everyone show up...anyone who doesn't won't have a say in how issue gets resolved...but make it clear it WILL get resolved in this meeting.
---Outline issues from homeowners' point of view. Include which areas are common areas, that need to be maintained by roommates (kitchen, shared bathrooms, laundry room, etc.)
---define homerowners' private spaces, including their bath, bedroom and any room they want to claim as their private area. Roommates do not use these spaces.
---Roommates will select a different and rotating overseer every week, or day, rather than one becoming the police for all time, as has been the case for homeowners. During their tenure, that person is the one accountable all incomplete work and to whom homeowners can bring up daily issues and leave in that person's hands to resolve among roommates.
---Come up with a carrot and a stick.
---Carrot might be homeowners continue to provide food, laundry soap, housing, and all else they already provide. (enumerate carrots on contract)
---Stick should be that at the end of each day, at a specified hour, (ex. 8 pm) any contracted items still in common areas will be picked up by homeowner(s) and taken to room of that week's (or day's or whatever) responsible roommate/overseer. This may be garbage, dirty dishes, , clothing, laundry, unfolded, wet, or dry, and anything else of any roommate's in common areas.
---Everyone, including homeowners will sign off on plan, homeowners to be free to do their individual part only, rather than roommates' chosen responsibilities.
Following above clarifying of issues....
---Sit silently and wait for roommates to come up with solution(s), which will be written as a contract and signed by all. Alternatively, write everything down, print out copies for each roommate, leave them to iron out the contract details. Roommates to write and print copies for all to sign by a specific time...no more than 3 hours hence. Homeowners then go out for coffee, do yard work, hike, shop for something new for their private areas of home. This might work better for mom, since her sympathetic and nurturing self might negate allowing roommates to act as the adults they actually are.
---Before signing homeowners must concur that contract is as requested and covers all the bases.
Of course this idea must be tweaked to suit individual details of situation. (Homeowners need to be on the same page before even presenting this to roommates...Meaning Mom and Dad each need to feel comfortable with plan...that may take awhile to arrive at) But at the end of the process there need to be 6 adults actively caring for home, and benefiting from same. Homeowners need to have narrowly defined responsibilities for themselves and remedies when roommates act as children and not adults.
At 8 pm each day, Mom may choose to go to one of homeowners' common areas (the master bathtub, the homeowners' family room/tv area, a fluffy bed with current favorite book) and dad can take any necessary actions regarding roommates' unaddressed contractual responsibilities.
Mom may choose to provide a favorite treat/favor/experience at end of successful tenure of each roommate overseer. Never at the beginning! Not patronizing mom...just being one, I know I need to leave dad with the stick and keep carrot for me!
posted by mumstheword at 10:38 AM on May 16, 2015
Call a house meeting, require everyone show up...anyone who doesn't won't have a say in how issue gets resolved...but make it clear it WILL get resolved in this meeting.
---Outline issues from homeowners' point of view. Include which areas are common areas, that need to be maintained by roommates (kitchen, shared bathrooms, laundry room, etc.)
---define homerowners' private spaces, including their bath, bedroom and any room they want to claim as their private area. Roommates do not use these spaces.
---Roommates will select a different and rotating overseer every week, or day, rather than one becoming the police for all time, as has been the case for homeowners. During their tenure, that person is the one accountable all incomplete work and to whom homeowners can bring up daily issues and leave in that person's hands to resolve among roommates.
---Come up with a carrot and a stick.
---Carrot might be homeowners continue to provide food, laundry soap, housing, and all else they already provide. (enumerate carrots on contract)
---Stick should be that at the end of each day, at a specified hour, (ex. 8 pm) any contracted items still in common areas will be picked up by homeowner(s) and taken to room of that week's (or day's or whatever) responsible roommate/overseer. This may be garbage, dirty dishes, , clothing, laundry, unfolded, wet, or dry, and anything else of any roommate's in common areas.
---Everyone, including homeowners will sign off on plan, homeowners to be free to do their individual part only, rather than roommates' chosen responsibilities.
Following above clarifying of issues....
---Sit silently and wait for roommates to come up with solution(s), which will be written as a contract and signed by all. Alternatively, write everything down, print out copies for each roommate, leave them to iron out the contract details. Roommates to write and print copies for all to sign by a specific time...no more than 3 hours hence. Homeowners then go out for coffee, do yard work, hike, shop for something new for their private areas of home. This might work better for mom, since her sympathetic and nurturing self might negate allowing roommates to act as the adults they actually are.
---Before signing homeowners must concur that contract is as requested and covers all the bases.
Of course this idea must be tweaked to suit individual details of situation. (Homeowners need to be on the same page before even presenting this to roommates...Meaning Mom and Dad each need to feel comfortable with plan...that may take awhile to arrive at) But at the end of the process there need to be 6 adults actively caring for home, and benefiting from same. Homeowners need to have narrowly defined responsibilities for themselves and remedies when roommates act as children and not adults.
At 8 pm each day, Mom may choose to go to one of homeowners' common areas (the master bathtub, the homeowners' family room/tv area, a fluffy bed with current favorite book) and dad can take any necessary actions regarding roommates' unaddressed contractual responsibilities.
Mom may choose to provide a favorite treat/favor/experience at end of successful tenure of each roommate overseer. Never at the beginning! Not patronizing mom...just being one, I know I need to leave dad with the stick and keep carrot for me!
posted by mumstheword at 10:38 AM on May 16, 2015
I would be sorely tempted to do something like this: The Out of Luck Ransom & Chore Bin
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 12:02 PM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 12:02 PM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would give them 30 days' notice. Now, "the economy being what it is," searching for a new place is going to be sobering for them. They're going to realize what a favor you have been doing for them.
During the 30 days, they may promise to do better if they can stay. You can agree, but remember that "do better" is not a promise, specific actions that they will and will not do is a promise. Measurable. Make sure you have this—make them put their proposal in writing. Not you writing it, them. They are trying to convince you with an offer. Reject it for revision if it does not meet your satisfaction, but it has to come from them. The reason for that is, if they start failing to live up to it, they can't claim it's unfair or excessive. It was their idea.
If they do find a place, bonus. Your wife can still go over to their shithole disasters and take care of them if she wants.
posted by ctmf at 12:11 PM on May 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
During the 30 days, they may promise to do better if they can stay. You can agree, but remember that "do better" is not a promise, specific actions that they will and will not do is a promise. Measurable. Make sure you have this—make them put their proposal in writing. Not you writing it, them. They are trying to convince you with an offer. Reject it for revision if it does not meet your satisfaction, but it has to come from them. The reason for that is, if they start failing to live up to it, they can't claim it's unfair or excessive. It was their idea.
If they do find a place, bonus. Your wife can still go over to their shithole disasters and take care of them if she wants.
posted by ctmf at 12:11 PM on May 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
Snowflake: my roommates are my adult children and their significant others.
This isn't a snowflake; this is the crux of the matter.
Your kids are freeloading on you and your wife is enabling them. You have to get things clear with her before you get things clear with them. Her coddling isn't going to help them grow up. Spilled urine, seriously?
I'd be tempted to make my wife pay for the cleaners if she is so indulgent of your kids that she thinks this situation is okay.
posted by winna at 12:12 PM on May 16, 2015 [24 favorites]
This isn't a snowflake; this is the crux of the matter.
Your kids are freeloading on you and your wife is enabling them. You have to get things clear with her before you get things clear with them. Her coddling isn't going to help them grow up. Spilled urine, seriously?
I'd be tempted to make my wife pay for the cleaners if she is so indulgent of your kids that she thinks this situation is okay.
posted by winna at 12:12 PM on May 16, 2015 [24 favorites]
"Since I and my spouse have the lowest tolerance for dirt,"
As someone who has a pretty darn high tolerance for dirt this stuck out for me. I personally cannot see a kitchen getting so dirty that it needs to be cleaned up 6 times in one week. In my mind unless you're having huge parties at your house there is no way the kitchen NEEDS to be cleaned this much. It's ok if the kitchen isn't 100% clean every day.
Since you have by your own admission "the lowest tolerance of dirt" you may want to compromise a bit along with your roommates. It is YOUR house so you don't HAVE to compromise if you don't want to. It's within your right. But you are a neat freak (nothing wrong with that) living with people who are either slobs or just people who are less concerned about having everything in their place all the time. (It's difficult for me to to tell which category they fall into because Neat freaks almost always find people who are just a tad disorganized as complete and utter slobs anyway.)
Spilled urine- I'm assuming one of the dogs did this. (I hope). Did they even know the dog went there? And how did you know about this? Do they share a bathroom with you?
Your wife might secretly actually like cleaning up after them a bit because it might remind her of how it was when they were little. If this is the case she may be enabling their behavior a little and she may want to reflect on what her actual feelings are here.
In the end I think everyone might be happier if you learn to be a little more tolerant of dirt and they learn to be more respectful of your wishes for your home. In a way, the more you harp on someone to clean up, the more this puts them in the role of "child" and then they start to act more like children. Just like their actions are inspiring you to take on even more of a role of disciplinarian. It's mean cycle and the way to break it is to compromise a bit. See if you can have a family meeting or if you can't do that- maybe send a heartfelt email to everyone saying that you feel you can ease up if they meet you half-way. Hopefully this works. If it doesn't then you'll have to start denying priveleges like maybe you can donate your TV so they won't spend any time in the living room. TV stinks anyway.
posted by rancher at 12:55 PM on May 16, 2015
As someone who has a pretty darn high tolerance for dirt this stuck out for me. I personally cannot see a kitchen getting so dirty that it needs to be cleaned up 6 times in one week. In my mind unless you're having huge parties at your house there is no way the kitchen NEEDS to be cleaned this much. It's ok if the kitchen isn't 100% clean every day.
Since you have by your own admission "the lowest tolerance of dirt" you may want to compromise a bit along with your roommates. It is YOUR house so you don't HAVE to compromise if you don't want to. It's within your right. But you are a neat freak (nothing wrong with that) living with people who are either slobs or just people who are less concerned about having everything in their place all the time. (It's difficult for me to to tell which category they fall into because Neat freaks almost always find people who are just a tad disorganized as complete and utter slobs anyway.)
Spilled urine- I'm assuming one of the dogs did this. (I hope). Did they even know the dog went there? And how did you know about this? Do they share a bathroom with you?
Your wife might secretly actually like cleaning up after them a bit because it might remind her of how it was when they were little. If this is the case she may be enabling their behavior a little and she may want to reflect on what her actual feelings are here.
In the end I think everyone might be happier if you learn to be a little more tolerant of dirt and they learn to be more respectful of your wishes for your home. In a way, the more you harp on someone to clean up, the more this puts them in the role of "child" and then they start to act more like children. Just like their actions are inspiring you to take on even more of a role of disciplinarian. It's mean cycle and the way to break it is to compromise a bit. See if you can have a family meeting or if you can't do that- maybe send a heartfelt email to everyone saying that you feel you can ease up if they meet you half-way. Hopefully this works. If it doesn't then you'll have to start denying priveleges like maybe you can donate your TV so they won't spend any time in the living room. TV stinks anyway.
posted by rancher at 12:55 PM on May 16, 2015
I think winna and rancher both have excellent points and combining them is making me think a bit more.
That they're your kids IS the crux here. Presumably there was not some step change in either their behaviors or your standards? I can totally understand being quietly annoyed for years and now suddenly you can't take it any more, but that's not how behavior gets changed.
You also don't want to get into the parent/child "I'm doing this to teach you for your own good" thing. In my opinion, I mean. It's ineffective and makes people resentful. But the thing is, they're not meeting your standards for what you want YOUR house to be like. If I routinely did not meet my boss' standard for my work, I would be out of a job; that has nothing to do with parent/child.
That requires you to HAVE standards. And by that I mean, you can't overlook stuff sometimes and then other times get mad about it. You can't wait for the accumulation to be "too much." It's THIS dish that has been in the sink for 24 hours that is a problem, and it's a problem even if it's the only thing wrong in the whole house. It does not meet the standard. If there are old dishes in the sink and no sign of the perpetrator, call them on the phone. Are these your dishes? What is your plan to correct this deficiency? Then later, a discussion about how and why that happened. Do they not understand the standard? Do they find it an unreasonable standard? Do they think it doesn't apply to them? Do they think you aren't serious? Do they have time management problems such that they didn't allow themselves time to meet the standard? Do they feel that there is anything they can do to change their behavior such that they meet the standard, or do they need to start looking for another place?
They will either get sick of having this humiliating and time-consuming experience and start doing what they need to do, or they'll move out. You might have intermediate steps for repeat offenders such as one-time payments for a house cleaner to come reset the mess (or compensation for you having done it), temporary injunction against keeping anything in the bathroom (take everything in and out with you) for one week, kick out the SOs for a month, etc. I would see things like that as temporary behavior-correcting nudges, though, not the new normal. Ultimately, you want them to be good roommates of their own free will, not follow a thousand individual rules. Use the escalation of penalties principle. Just like at work, a one-week corrective action that doesn't correct the behavior doesn't mean the same thing again. It means something more painful, ultimately escalating to removal.
posted by ctmf at 2:13 PM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
That they're your kids IS the crux here. Presumably there was not some step change in either their behaviors or your standards? I can totally understand being quietly annoyed for years and now suddenly you can't take it any more, but that's not how behavior gets changed.
You also don't want to get into the parent/child "I'm doing this to teach you for your own good" thing. In my opinion, I mean. It's ineffective and makes people resentful. But the thing is, they're not meeting your standards for what you want YOUR house to be like. If I routinely did not meet my boss' standard for my work, I would be out of a job; that has nothing to do with parent/child.
That requires you to HAVE standards. And by that I mean, you can't overlook stuff sometimes and then other times get mad about it. You can't wait for the accumulation to be "too much." It's THIS dish that has been in the sink for 24 hours that is a problem, and it's a problem even if it's the only thing wrong in the whole house. It does not meet the standard. If there are old dishes in the sink and no sign of the perpetrator, call them on the phone. Are these your dishes? What is your plan to correct this deficiency? Then later, a discussion about how and why that happened. Do they not understand the standard? Do they find it an unreasonable standard? Do they think it doesn't apply to them? Do they think you aren't serious? Do they have time management problems such that they didn't allow themselves time to meet the standard? Do they feel that there is anything they can do to change their behavior such that they meet the standard, or do they need to start looking for another place?
They will either get sick of having this humiliating and time-consuming experience and start doing what they need to do, or they'll move out. You might have intermediate steps for repeat offenders such as one-time payments for a house cleaner to come reset the mess (or compensation for you having done it), temporary injunction against keeping anything in the bathroom (take everything in and out with you) for one week, kick out the SOs for a month, etc. I would see things like that as temporary behavior-correcting nudges, though, not the new normal. Ultimately, you want them to be good roommates of their own free will, not follow a thousand individual rules. Use the escalation of penalties principle. Just like at work, a one-week corrective action that doesn't correct the behavior doesn't mean the same thing again. It means something more painful, ultimately escalating to removal.
posted by ctmf at 2:13 PM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Step 1: You and your wife need to get on the same page about what is and is not acceptable in the house. Some compromise may be necessary.
Step 2: You and your wife need to agree on how that is going to happen. You sound like you're at the end of your rope, and I don't blame you. Convey to her as dispassionately as possible how you are feeling (use "I" statements), and the steps you are prepared to take to resolve the situation.
Step 3: Communicate the results of this discussion, as a united front, to your children. And most importantly, stick to whatever you say.
Personally, in this situation I would call a house meeting, attendance mandatory. "We have had these discussions multiple times, and nothing has changed. Your mother and I are no longer cleaning up after you. Your mother and I are no longer allowing your laziness to impact our marriage. You will work out a cleaning schedule that is acceptable to us, and you will stick to it, or you will move out on 1 July."
(You may need to check with your local landlord/tenant org to ensure you do whatever is legally necessary to remove them from your home.)
I'd echo that a cleaning service is probably a suboptimal solution, as it continues to let them offload their responsibility for a decent living environment onto someone else.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 3:11 PM on May 16, 2015
Step 2: You and your wife need to agree on how that is going to happen. You sound like you're at the end of your rope, and I don't blame you. Convey to her as dispassionately as possible how you are feeling (use "I" statements), and the steps you are prepared to take to resolve the situation.
Step 3: Communicate the results of this discussion, as a united front, to your children. And most importantly, stick to whatever you say.
Personally, in this situation I would call a house meeting, attendance mandatory. "We have had these discussions multiple times, and nothing has changed. Your mother and I are no longer cleaning up after you. Your mother and I are no longer allowing your laziness to impact our marriage. You will work out a cleaning schedule that is acceptable to us, and you will stick to it, or you will move out on 1 July."
(You may need to check with your local landlord/tenant org to ensure you do whatever is legally necessary to remove them from your home.)
I'd echo that a cleaning service is probably a suboptimal solution, as it continues to let them offload their responsibility for a decent living environment onto someone else.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 3:11 PM on May 16, 2015
...and quite very seriously considering just moving to my own apartment.
Do this.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 3:18 PM on May 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
Do this.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 3:18 PM on May 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
I see this as your wife not being on the same page as you and the most worrying aspect of all. If it's so bad you're considering separating, you need a Come to Jesus talk with her and some couples counselling.
Then you tell the kids that they tidy or they leave because really....they'll leave when it suits them and your marriage will be shredded and your finances torn asunder for ever and they'll be living their happy cushy futures.
posted by taff at 4:47 PM on May 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Then you tell the kids that they tidy or they leave because really....they'll leave when it suits them and your marriage will be shredded and your finances torn asunder for ever and they'll be living their happy cushy futures.
posted by taff at 4:47 PM on May 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
I... don't understand why you have "roommates" who do not pay any sort of rent and aren't family members.
But I guess I don't have to understand to answer you; if you are not willing to charge them rent and are not willing to evict them you have no leverage. Without leverage you cannot get them to do anything they don't want to do.
I suggest you re-evaluate the whole "roommates who do not pay rent" thing.
posted by Justinian at 5:30 PM on May 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
But I guess I don't have to understand to answer you; if you are not willing to charge them rent and are not willing to evict them you have no leverage. Without leverage you cannot get them to do anything they don't want to do.
I suggest you re-evaluate the whole "roommates who do not pay rent" thing.
posted by Justinian at 5:30 PM on May 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
They're doing it because they can. Tell them in no uncertain terms that their behavior is totally unacceptable. and may result in you evicting them. And mean it.
Food in rooms attracts critters. Has to stop. Rooms have to be nontoxic. Each person in the home must do their fair share of chores. Or find a new home. Anything left lying around may be tossed. If they can't clean the kitchen, they can't eat there. If they pee all over the bathroom, they need to find another place to live.
posted by theora55 at 5:47 PM on May 16, 2015
Food in rooms attracts critters. Has to stop. Rooms have to be nontoxic. Each person in the home must do their fair share of chores. Or find a new home. Anything left lying around may be tossed. If they can't clean the kitchen, they can't eat there. If they pee all over the bathroom, they need to find another place to live.
posted by theora55 at 5:47 PM on May 16, 2015
Justinian, I'm confused. These are the OP's kids and their SOs. Are you saying the SOs should be evicted at least?
posted by winna at 5:48 PM on May 16, 2015
posted by winna at 5:48 PM on May 16, 2015
Oh, OP worded it so weird that I misunderstood:
My roommates are in their mid 20's, stay free of rent, and are provided with all the food they care to eat. I love my children very much, but they're driving me bananas.
I see how that means the roommates are kids, I guess, but it confused me. I would never refer to my family as roommates no matter the ages.
posted by Justinian at 5:58 PM on May 16, 2015
My roommates are in their mid 20's, stay free of rent, and are provided with all the food they care to eat. I love my children very much, but they're driving me bananas.
I see how that means the roommates are kids, I guess, but it confused me. I would never refer to my family as roommates no matter the ages.
posted by Justinian at 5:58 PM on May 16, 2015
(Yes, I see the "snowflake". I guess it just threw me hard that OP keeps talking about "roommates" and it makes it needlessly confusing)
posted by Justinian at 5:59 PM on May 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:59 PM on May 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, my wife won't hear of asking them to leave, and doesn't like asking them to clean, and refuses to engage with me when I bring it up with her.... (sigh).
This is bullshit. This needs to get worked out before anything else can be.
You guys need to get on the same page, and frankly her attitude about this is somewhere between "be a doormat" and what i've seen friends/acquaintances depressed parent(s) act like and tolerate.
I honestly think allowing this to go on this way is damaging your relationship with your children. It WILL reach a breaking point, and it will get stupid. I've seen it happen over and over, and i've been the live-in friend/spouse.
Frankly i think the cleaning service is ridiculous and if they're paying no rent they should be cleaning the fucking hell out of your house. It should look like the realtor is showing up to show the house at any moment. I don't think it's unreasonable at all that the kitchen look 100% showroom presentable at all times. I don't think their rooms should be exempt either, just maybe slightly more relaxed standards.
But yea, on the common areas/kitchen/bathroom? Fuck that, they should be cleaning that stuff every day. It sounds obsessive or a bit much, but it gets to be so fast if you just give the table a quick wipedown and run a swiffer or whatever daily.
And yes, honestly, you and your wife need to get on the same page with this. You don't have to threaten to kick them out, just go "this is my house and these are the rules now" as a team.
Nothing you want here is unreasonable. And honestly, i think you should be expecting more. Especially if there's what, 6-8 people total besides you and your wife?
Each person gets a cleaning day. They can swap with other people, but there's no opting out. That's their shift. Come up with actual concrete punishments if someone just doesn't clean because they "didn't feel like it".
Are any of these people even working?
I just, having lived like this as i said, and having visited/known many friends who did, seen this turn into a total slum of laziness where they're just playing videogames or netflix binging all day and doing fuckall but throwing food wrappers on the floor and stacking up dirty plates.
Make them work.
posted by emptythought at 6:29 PM on May 16, 2015 [12 favorites]
This is bullshit. This needs to get worked out before anything else can be.
You guys need to get on the same page, and frankly her attitude about this is somewhere between "be a doormat" and what i've seen friends/acquaintances depressed parent(s) act like and tolerate.
I honestly think allowing this to go on this way is damaging your relationship with your children. It WILL reach a breaking point, and it will get stupid. I've seen it happen over and over, and i've been the live-in friend/spouse.
Frankly i think the cleaning service is ridiculous and if they're paying no rent they should be cleaning the fucking hell out of your house. It should look like the realtor is showing up to show the house at any moment. I don't think it's unreasonable at all that the kitchen look 100% showroom presentable at all times. I don't think their rooms should be exempt either, just maybe slightly more relaxed standards.
But yea, on the common areas/kitchen/bathroom? Fuck that, they should be cleaning that stuff every day. It sounds obsessive or a bit much, but it gets to be so fast if you just give the table a quick wipedown and run a swiffer or whatever daily.
And yes, honestly, you and your wife need to get on the same page with this. You don't have to threaten to kick them out, just go "this is my house and these are the rules now" as a team.
Nothing you want here is unreasonable. And honestly, i think you should be expecting more. Especially if there's what, 6-8 people total besides you and your wife?
Each person gets a cleaning day. They can swap with other people, but there's no opting out. That's their shift. Come up with actual concrete punishments if someone just doesn't clean because they "didn't feel like it".
Are any of these people even working?
I just, having lived like this as i said, and having visited/known many friends who did, seen this turn into a total slum of laziness where they're just playing videogames or netflix binging all day and doing fuckall but throwing food wrappers on the floor and stacking up dirty plates.
Make them work.
posted by emptythought at 6:29 PM on May 16, 2015 [12 favorites]
What *emptythought* just said!
Jeez, this situation has really blown my mind. Okay, so the economy's bad so they live in their parents' house in their mid-20s. That doesn't mean they get to act as if time has stood still for the past decade and they're still 15. WTAF?!
The crux of the issue is that they have no respect for your property and, to add insult to injury, your wife is enabling them.
It's hard for me to know what to suggest. I haven't lived with my parents full-time since I was 17 and would not have ^dreamed^ of treating their home like that when I stayed with them on university holidays. It's an ingrained respect thing, and frankly - you brought them up, and they don't have it, so the horse has bolted on that one.
I think you and your wife are going to have to present a united front on this. I think that as a starting point, you need to charge them rent (free rent and food AND cleaning for adult children PLUS their partners? Really??). They don't value their sweet set-up because they're being handed everything on a plate. There must be some amount they can pay; charge it. Draw up a contract re: the cleaning. They need to stick to it or they're out.
And yeah, your wife is a big problem in this. Why is their happiness more important to her than yours? My mother would never have let me disrespect my dad like that in his own home.
Your adult children won't hate you and run away forever if you set some reasonable boundaries, regardless of what your wife seems to think. They might actually grow up and stop treating you with contempt, though.
posted by Salamander at 7:14 PM on May 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Jeez, this situation has really blown my mind. Okay, so the economy's bad so they live in their parents' house in their mid-20s. That doesn't mean they get to act as if time has stood still for the past decade and they're still 15. WTAF?!
The crux of the issue is that they have no respect for your property and, to add insult to injury, your wife is enabling them.
It's hard for me to know what to suggest. I haven't lived with my parents full-time since I was 17 and would not have ^dreamed^ of treating their home like that when I stayed with them on university holidays. It's an ingrained respect thing, and frankly - you brought them up, and they don't have it, so the horse has bolted on that one.
I think you and your wife are going to have to present a united front on this. I think that as a starting point, you need to charge them rent (free rent and food AND cleaning for adult children PLUS their partners? Really??). They don't value their sweet set-up because they're being handed everything on a plate. There must be some amount they can pay; charge it. Draw up a contract re: the cleaning. They need to stick to it or they're out.
And yeah, your wife is a big problem in this. Why is their happiness more important to her than yours? My mother would never have let me disrespect my dad like that in his own home.
Your adult children won't hate you and run away forever if you set some reasonable boundaries, regardless of what your wife seems to think. They might actually grow up and stop treating you with contempt, though.
posted by Salamander at 7:14 PM on May 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wow. My children are almost two and three and a half and they already know they have to clean up their mess and pack away their toys after they've finished with them. I don't know where the discipline has gone awry with your children in the last 25 years but the contempt they're showing you is unbelievable. And their partners, I mean, seriously, they move into their in laws place and just treat it like a trash heap?! Where's the love, where's the gratitude?
Anyway. I would totally kick them out, but given that it's not an option, tell them they are responsible for either cleaning after themselves or paying for a cleaner. They'd probably will not clean after themselves, so when this eventuates, new rules. Tell them that Cleaner comes on X day, whatever mess has not been cleared to enable them to do their job, goes in the bin. Regardless of whether it's an X Box, Fender guitar or the Picasso you picked up in Europe, if it's on the floor, it's in the bin. If you don't like it, great, you and your lazy wife are out on the street. You need to start being tough. Actually you needed to do this 20 years ago, but whatever. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
posted by Jubey at 4:14 AM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anyway. I would totally kick them out, but given that it's not an option, tell them they are responsible for either cleaning after themselves or paying for a cleaner. They'd probably will not clean after themselves, so when this eventuates, new rules. Tell them that Cleaner comes on X day, whatever mess has not been cleared to enable them to do their job, goes in the bin. Regardless of whether it's an X Box, Fender guitar or the Picasso you picked up in Europe, if it's on the floor, it's in the bin. If you don't like it, great, you and your lazy wife are out on the street. You need to start being tough. Actually you needed to do this 20 years ago, but whatever. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
posted by Jubey at 4:14 AM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
The economy being what it is, my husband and I have had (non-family) roommates for most of our 20 years together. Your kids and their SOs will figure it out if they're forced to. They aren't five any more; I assume they're of at least average intelligence/sound mind. You're doing them no favors. At the risk of being really rude, someday you and your wife will be dead, and what then? They'll have no skills to cope with being an adult in the world. This isn't a kindness. Does your wife think good parents keep their kids dependent forever?
As others have said, you need to get her onboard. If she won't, you really only have 3 options:
1) give up and just accept this is your fate
2) stop cleaning up outside of what you or your wife dirtied
3) move out
I wish you the best of luck. This would make me batshit. I expected better of roommates who WERE paying their share of the rent.
posted by RogueTech at 10:00 PM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
As others have said, you need to get her onboard. If she won't, you really only have 3 options:
1) give up and just accept this is your fate
2) stop cleaning up outside of what you or your wife dirtied
3) move out
I wish you the best of luck. This would make me batshit. I expected better of roommates who WERE paying their share of the rent.
posted by RogueTech at 10:00 PM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
The sorry state of your marriage is the real issue here -- you two are not at all on the same page, she is actively undermining and ignoring you, and it sounds like you two are in serious crisis. In your shoes, I could not stay married to someone who won't even talk with me about important issues such as the livability of our shared home. You should move into your own apartment immediately. Up to your wife if she moves along with you or not. If not, talk to a divorce lawyer. Seriously.
posted by hush at 7:31 AM on May 21, 2015
posted by hush at 7:31 AM on May 21, 2015
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posted by egg drop at 8:36 AM on May 16, 2015 [50 favorites]