Received an termination/eviction notice. Now what?
May 13, 2015 11:12 AM Subscribe
I'm still waiting for tenant lawyers to get back to me, but I don't know what to do. We've been given 2 weeks to vacate the premises and it was a complete shock.
We received a letter stating that we received noise complaints and that they needed to have the super check to see that the apartment has 80% of the floor covered as per the lease. We felt that it was, so we said no problem and got the inspection done. No one was home at the time of the inspection (we are so dumb when it comes to landlord/tenant stuff it didn't occur to me that I really needed to be there to make sure it went by the book). Since we still had plenty of time left to rectify the issue if it needed to be, we called the super and asked if the rug situation was ok. He told us yes. So we let the 10 days slide thinking we were in the clear and we waited for our renewal.
Suddenly after the 10 days are up we get a notice saying that due to our floor not being 80% covered they are terminating our stay and will not allow us to renew and we must head out at the end of our lease (which is at the end of the month). This came as a complete shock to us because we thought this was settled and instead of letting us know there was a problem and giving us a chance to rectify it, they just waited for the 10 days to be up and sucker punched us with this. When we asked what was going on and that we thought this was taken care of the Landlord didn't answer our question and instead became really nasty and said that the process of eviction has already started.
Then we asked the super what the hell happened and he told us that he's not the one who determines whether the floor is 80% covered. He just takes photos and gives them to the landlord and the landlord decides. Well THAT would've been useful to know beforehand! We thought he would just see that the floor was covered and go tell the landlord that it was- and that's why we asked HIM whether the floor was ok when it was done thinking we were in the clear. We couldn't understand why the landlord didn't let us know during the 10 day period that he felt the floor could be more covered to give us a chance to cover it to his satisfaction and then we found out that if we vacate he can up the rent substantially with the residents who replace us. We feel we were led to believe that the landlord was satisfied with our rugs (we still think the place looks 80% covered though) so that he could ambush us. But now what? This couldn't have happened at a worse time as I'm supposed to be getting a couple of surgeries that can't wait and yet- I now can't help but put off my doctors appointments because of this. I can't on top of the medical issues come home at the end of the month and find the locks changed. Is there any way we can get a renewal now? What are our options?
We received a letter stating that we received noise complaints and that they needed to have the super check to see that the apartment has 80% of the floor covered as per the lease. We felt that it was, so we said no problem and got the inspection done. No one was home at the time of the inspection (we are so dumb when it comes to landlord/tenant stuff it didn't occur to me that I really needed to be there to make sure it went by the book). Since we still had plenty of time left to rectify the issue if it needed to be, we called the super and asked if the rug situation was ok. He told us yes. So we let the 10 days slide thinking we were in the clear and we waited for our renewal.
Suddenly after the 10 days are up we get a notice saying that due to our floor not being 80% covered they are terminating our stay and will not allow us to renew and we must head out at the end of our lease (which is at the end of the month). This came as a complete shock to us because we thought this was settled and instead of letting us know there was a problem and giving us a chance to rectify it, they just waited for the 10 days to be up and sucker punched us with this. When we asked what was going on and that we thought this was taken care of the Landlord didn't answer our question and instead became really nasty and said that the process of eviction has already started.
Then we asked the super what the hell happened and he told us that he's not the one who determines whether the floor is 80% covered. He just takes photos and gives them to the landlord and the landlord decides. Well THAT would've been useful to know beforehand! We thought he would just see that the floor was covered and go tell the landlord that it was- and that's why we asked HIM whether the floor was ok when it was done thinking we were in the clear. We couldn't understand why the landlord didn't let us know during the 10 day period that he felt the floor could be more covered to give us a chance to cover it to his satisfaction and then we found out that if we vacate he can up the rent substantially with the residents who replace us. We feel we were led to believe that the landlord was satisfied with our rugs (we still think the place looks 80% covered though) so that he could ambush us. But now what? This couldn't have happened at a worse time as I'm supposed to be getting a couple of surgeries that can't wait and yet- I now can't help but put off my doctors appointments because of this. I can't on top of the medical issues come home at the end of the month and find the locks changed. Is there any way we can get a renewal now? What are our options?
If you are in NYC, call the Attorney General's office and speak with their tenant's rights people. Here's an outline of what your rights are.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 11:20 AM on May 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 11:20 AM on May 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you are in NYC, yeah. They have to go to court to evict you, no matter what.
posted by dis_integration at 11:22 AM on May 13, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 11:22 AM on May 13, 2015 [16 favorites]
This is what you call a paper trail.
They seemed to be looking for an excuse of some sort to put you out, and they found one, albeit a tricky one. You mention noise complaints - is this the first time? Have you had any sort of trouble of that sort - or any other - recently? Self-reflection upon past transgressions might reveal a clue here and also give you a path back to good graces.
This doesn't make them right and it certainly doesn't mean that they are going to succeed, but they really seem to not want you there, for one reason or another.
Investigate your rights, defend them, try to make nice as much as possible, and go from there. Also start trying to figure out a Plan B, because you might need one.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 11:22 AM on May 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
They seemed to be looking for an excuse of some sort to put you out, and they found one, albeit a tricky one. You mention noise complaints - is this the first time? Have you had any sort of trouble of that sort - or any other - recently? Self-reflection upon past transgressions might reveal a clue here and also give you a path back to good graces.
This doesn't make them right and it certainly doesn't mean that they are going to succeed, but they really seem to not want you there, for one reason or another.
Investigate your rights, defend them, try to make nice as much as possible, and go from there. Also start trying to figure out a Plan B, because you might need one.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 11:22 AM on May 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm a property manager in NYC, although i am not YPM. It's almost impossible to evict people in NYC. The judges will almost always side with the tenant. This will go to court and when it does, if you show that you made a serious effort to correct the situation (put down rugs), the judge will almost certainly side with you. And even if they don't, it'll still take months to evict you. I mean I've gone to court with tenants who have done serious scary criminal things and it still took me months and months to get them out.
Are you market rate or stabilized? If you're market rate, then once your lease comes to its natural end, they don't have to offer renewal and/or they can jack the rent up to whatever they want. If you are rent stablized, they HAVE to offer you renewal and it has to be at the mandated rate for this year.
posted by silverstatue at 11:34 AM on May 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Are you market rate or stabilized? If you're market rate, then once your lease comes to its natural end, they don't have to offer renewal and/or they can jack the rent up to whatever they want. If you are rent stablized, they HAVE to offer you renewal and it has to be at the mandated rate for this year.
posted by silverstatue at 11:34 AM on May 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Yes there were a few noise complaints in the past and we wish we handled them with a paper trail of our own, but unfortunately what we did instead is ask building staff what the complaints were refering to. They always said it was bass - as in the bass of a stereo. And we don't play music. We don't even have speakers. So we just chalked it up to weird nieghbors. Eventually we just decided to give the neighbors downstairs our phone numbers because talking to the staff just left us with more questions about the complaints. We told them if you hear stuff just let us know so that we can hear from the horses mouth what these noises really are. They never called us. And I assume this means they weren't having anymore noise problems.
Another problem is the landlord claims he sent us emails about the issue but we forgot to update the email address they had so we never got those. It wasn't until we received an actual letter from a lawyer which claimed emails were sent that we updated the address. This is the letter that gave us 10 days to carpet the floor if it wasn't already carpeted.
posted by manderin at 11:35 AM on May 13, 2015
Another problem is the landlord claims he sent us emails about the issue but we forgot to update the email address they had so we never got those. It wasn't until we received an actual letter from a lawyer which claimed emails were sent that we updated the address. This is the letter that gave us 10 days to carpet the floor if it wasn't already carpeted.
posted by manderin at 11:35 AM on May 13, 2015
This website seems to suggest that even if your landlord wants to not renew your lease, he needs to give 30 days notice. Would it be possible to negotiate going month-to-month for another month or two to get you through your surgery, and then agree to move after that date?
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:50 AM on May 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:50 AM on May 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
the super... told us that he's not the one who determines whether the floor is 80% covered. He just takes photos and gives them to the landlord and the landlord decides.
FWIW (maybe not much in a case like this), nobody "decides" whether the floor is 80% covered. It's math, not a judgement call.
posted by jon1270 at 12:00 PM on May 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
FWIW (maybe not much in a case like this), nobody "decides" whether the floor is 80% covered. It's math, not a judgement call.
posted by jon1270 at 12:00 PM on May 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I realize that. Admittedly I'm not sure how the math works, but we look down on our floor and it looks 80% covered to us. The parts with tables and chairs are not covered underneath, but since they are not walk through areas they obviously don't count. Still if we were wrong I feel the landlord should've told us and given us a chance to put more rugs down if they were needed.
posted by manderin at 12:11 PM on May 13, 2015
posted by manderin at 12:11 PM on May 13, 2015
as I guess you know, it's really important to get an attorney. If you are rent stabilized, one set of laws apply; if you aren't, another set of laws apply. Service of a notice to cure via email seems very un-kosher, if you're rent stabilized. But, it's a question an attorney needs to answer.
if this helps your anxiety levels, when I was practicing over ten years ago (IANYL, I'm retired from law) in housing court, it was common for tenants to get six months to stay post-judgment as long as rent is paid. And it takes a while to get a judgment.
If you get a court date before you get an attorney, ask for an adjournment for time to get an attorney. Don't believe what the landlord lawyer tells you about the laws.
Good luck
posted by angrycat at 12:13 PM on May 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
if this helps your anxiety levels, when I was practicing over ten years ago (IANYL, I'm retired from law) in housing court, it was common for tenants to get six months to stay post-judgment as long as rent is paid. And it takes a while to get a judgment.
If you get a court date before you get an attorney, ask for an adjournment for time to get an attorney. Don't believe what the landlord lawyer tells you about the laws.
Good luck
posted by angrycat at 12:13 PM on May 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
realize that. Admittedly I'm not sure how the math works, but we look down on our floor and it looks 80% covered to us. The parts with tables and chairs are not covered underneath, but since they are not walk through areas they obviously don't count.
I don't think this is the case. I have a similar lease in New York, and the way it works for me is based on the total square feet of the apartment; if the apartment is 500 sq ft. and the lease requires 80% to be covered, then there needs to be rugs covering 400 sq ft. (My required coverage is 20%, not 80%, but if your lease says 80%, there you go.)
But you will want to find out for sure how the math works, and find out the total sq. footage of your apartment and make sure that 80% of that is covered, either by carpet (or, depending on the exact language in your lease, by something else--it may be the case that covering floor space by a sofa, bed or table does constitute coverage.)
But in case you do end up in housing court, you want to be able to say: The apartment is X square feet and 80% of X is covered by (whatever qualifies as legal coverage per your lease).
posted by layceepee at 12:19 PM on May 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't think this is the case. I have a similar lease in New York, and the way it works for me is based on the total square feet of the apartment; if the apartment is 500 sq ft. and the lease requires 80% to be covered, then there needs to be rugs covering 400 sq ft. (My required coverage is 20%, not 80%, but if your lease says 80%, there you go.)
But you will want to find out for sure how the math works, and find out the total sq. footage of your apartment and make sure that 80% of that is covered, either by carpet (or, depending on the exact language in your lease, by something else--it may be the case that covering floor space by a sofa, bed or table does constitute coverage.)
But in case you do end up in housing court, you want to be able to say: The apartment is X square feet and 80% of X is covered by (whatever qualifies as legal coverage per your lease).
posted by layceepee at 12:19 PM on May 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
You'll have to read your lease to know whether areas covered only by furniture count.
80% is quite a bit, though, and it might be easy to deceive yourself if you're just eyeballing it. In a 10' x 10' room, it would only permit an uncovered area equivalent to a strip around the perimeter a bit over six inches wide.
posted by jon1270 at 12:23 PM on May 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
80% is quite a bit, though, and it might be easy to deceive yourself if you're just eyeballing it. In a 10' x 10' room, it would only permit an uncovered area equivalent to a strip around the perimeter a bit over six inches wide.
posted by jon1270 at 12:23 PM on May 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
The rug-coverage-percentage is a bit of a red herring here. Your lease ends May 31. Either you're legally entitled to a renewal lease (most stabilized units) or you're not (market rate unit or very limited circumstances for a stabilized unit). If you're in a market rate apartment, your lease ends when it ends, regardless of your rug coverage. Absent a provision in your lease to the contrary, there is no obligation to renew the lease and the landlord does not need to give any reason or notice for not renewing the lease. Whether you become a month-to-month tenant or a holdover occupant after May 31 depends on whether you pay rent on June 1 and whether they accept it. Since they've given you a notice of termination, I would bet they were also informed by their lawyer to not accept future rent payments from you.
If your unit is not stabilized, start looking for a new apartment now and/or negotiate a short extension of your lease to get you through the surgeries and recovery. Yes, evicting a tenant is extremely difficult in NYC and requires that the landlord follow very specific procedural steps. So, it's really really unlikely that you'll need to vacate as of June 1. However, you may need to be out as of July 1 or August 1, depending on how good of a lawyer your landlord has, whether the landlord accepts your June 1 rent payment, and which judge you get (if your case gets that far).
I strongly suggest you attempt to resolve this without going to court (the blacklist is a thing).
posted by melissasaurus at 2:05 PM on May 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
If your unit is not stabilized, start looking for a new apartment now and/or negotiate a short extension of your lease to get you through the surgeries and recovery. Yes, evicting a tenant is extremely difficult in NYC and requires that the landlord follow very specific procedural steps. So, it's really really unlikely that you'll need to vacate as of June 1. However, you may need to be out as of July 1 or August 1, depending on how good of a lawyer your landlord has, whether the landlord accepts your June 1 rent payment, and which judge you get (if your case gets that far).
I strongly suggest you attempt to resolve this without going to court (the blacklist is a thing).
posted by melissasaurus at 2:05 PM on May 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jon1270 at 11:19 AM on May 13, 2015 [5 favorites]