Helping Boyfriend Help Depressed Me.
May 6, 2015 10:42 AM Subscribe
Need advice and/or perspective on my relationship problems. DISCLAIMER: Please don't tell me to DTMFA. I am not interested in ending my relationship with him right now. I want to attempt to improve it before I end it.
Boyfriend of-so-many-years-I've-lost count is four months younger than I. I met him online around 1999. Friendship evolved into LDR until 2003. I got depressed after graduating high school and the first death of a close family member in my lifetime. I got suicidal. Boyfriend distanced himself, out of concern that he'd get hurt if I really did kill myself. Unfortunately, he wasn't experienced enough to explain that to me. Instead I lashed out and said we were over. I expected him to protest, but instead he agreed. Didn't speak again for two years.
My metal state improved. I went back to school. I got to the point of being amiable of getting into a relationship again.. but every time I found someone with compatible interests, he was taken or soon became unavailable. Hooked back up with old boyfriend in question around 2006. Friendship again bloomed into love. We both apologized. Him for running away and abandoning me. Me for putting him in that position in the first place. We've worked hard to communicate when there's problems.
Last couple of years when I've tried to communicate that I felt there were problems or he was making me feel bad or unloved.. he'd get aggressive and offended. I've even tried to communicate that I didn't understand this change in him.. why was he suddenly taking offense instead of listening to me like he did before. Told me that I make him feel like he's always doing things wrong. this conversation eventually went no where. I just stopped talking to him when I was bothered by something. Now it's only when I've had enough and got myself so emotionally wound up that one small thing is too much and it all comes tumbling out. Now he's offended I didn't bring it up sooner and doesn't know what I'm talking about.
It's to the point now where I won't bring it up at all. I just stew on it and tell myself that I'm being unreasonable or that it's not something worth fighting about. I've even tired to communicate to him that I'm doing this, because I recognize that it's not healthly or sustainable. I need to tell you that I'm adverse to conflict by nature. My parents had verbally abusive arguments all throughout my childhood. I always swore to myself I'd never treat my partner that way.
Well, my mother recently passed away. I was already dealing with mild depression before.. and it has blown up into full on suicidal depression. I'm on meds.. was in group therapy for awhile until the sessions ended. I have tried to keep my depression from impacting our relationship as much as it did the first time. I realize depression is hard on the person who has it in addition to the people that love that person. I am trying to manage it as best I can cope.
So fast forward to his visit in October, about four months after my Mom passed away. I enjoyed his visit.. it was really nice to have someone in the house to care for.. he said he enjoyed it too..
but he's changed since he went back home. Nearly all affection has stopped.. which isn't abnormal, he goes through these strange "I don't want kisses right now" phases occasionally.. only this one has lasted since october. He's also talking to me less. We go through stretches of almost saying nothing to each other. I will send him texts or e-mails and not get replies back. We also stopped doing just about everything we use to do together to help mitigate some of the struggles of LDRs. at most we might watch an episode of a tv show together.. but that's not terribly interactive.
He's not a passionate guy. He's not real good at expressing his emotions. Super incredible private person. It took me years to break down his wall and get him to tell me the tiny little details of life. Before it was none of my business. Well it feels like those walls are up again. He barely tells me anything about his day or his complaints or thoughts on things.
So I'm sure you can understand that a few weeks ago I arrived at the conclusion that he was distancing himself from me. I escalated into the lowest of the low, full on sobbing, suicide planning mess. I cried in bed for hours and hours. I eventually got to the point where I sent him the following e-mail at 1am.
I guess my question is how do I explain to him that I need to feel that he cares and not just listen to him say the words. How do I explain to him that I can't always be mentally healthy. In my opinion, losing your mother is a BIG FUCKING DEAL and being depressed and emotionally unstable is kind of expected and should be ok. Especially since I spent my adult life taking care of her in her declining health. How do I help him learn to be OK with that, so that he can not abandon me in sickness, because let me tell you what, it does absolutely wonderful things to your sanity when the man you love isn't loving you because you're depressed. It's a vicious cycle of self loathing and pain.
I'd love specific phrases and things to say to him to help him problem solve.. ways to bring these concerns of mine to him and ask him for feedback and solutions instead coming off as though he's just doing it wrong. I have not spent a good deal of my adult life loving this man to just abandon it because I'm depressed and he doesn't know how to handle it. I really feel as though he's doing what he thinks he should be doing, but doesn't have the tools or knowledge in order to handle being in a relationship with a depressed person.
Boyfriend of-so-many-years-I've-lost count is four months younger than I. I met him online around 1999. Friendship evolved into LDR until 2003. I got depressed after graduating high school and the first death of a close family member in my lifetime. I got suicidal. Boyfriend distanced himself, out of concern that he'd get hurt if I really did kill myself. Unfortunately, he wasn't experienced enough to explain that to me. Instead I lashed out and said we were over. I expected him to protest, but instead he agreed. Didn't speak again for two years.
My metal state improved. I went back to school. I got to the point of being amiable of getting into a relationship again.. but every time I found someone with compatible interests, he was taken or soon became unavailable. Hooked back up with old boyfriend in question around 2006. Friendship again bloomed into love. We both apologized. Him for running away and abandoning me. Me for putting him in that position in the first place. We've worked hard to communicate when there's problems.
Last couple of years when I've tried to communicate that I felt there were problems or he was making me feel bad or unloved.. he'd get aggressive and offended. I've even tried to communicate that I didn't understand this change in him.. why was he suddenly taking offense instead of listening to me like he did before. Told me that I make him feel like he's always doing things wrong. this conversation eventually went no where. I just stopped talking to him when I was bothered by something. Now it's only when I've had enough and got myself so emotionally wound up that one small thing is too much and it all comes tumbling out. Now he's offended I didn't bring it up sooner and doesn't know what I'm talking about.
It's to the point now where I won't bring it up at all. I just stew on it and tell myself that I'm being unreasonable or that it's not something worth fighting about. I've even tired to communicate to him that I'm doing this, because I recognize that it's not healthly or sustainable. I need to tell you that I'm adverse to conflict by nature. My parents had verbally abusive arguments all throughout my childhood. I always swore to myself I'd never treat my partner that way.
Well, my mother recently passed away. I was already dealing with mild depression before.. and it has blown up into full on suicidal depression. I'm on meds.. was in group therapy for awhile until the sessions ended. I have tried to keep my depression from impacting our relationship as much as it did the first time. I realize depression is hard on the person who has it in addition to the people that love that person. I am trying to manage it as best I can cope.
So fast forward to his visit in October, about four months after my Mom passed away. I enjoyed his visit.. it was really nice to have someone in the house to care for.. he said he enjoyed it too..
but he's changed since he went back home. Nearly all affection has stopped.. which isn't abnormal, he goes through these strange "I don't want kisses right now" phases occasionally.. only this one has lasted since october. He's also talking to me less. We go through stretches of almost saying nothing to each other. I will send him texts or e-mails and not get replies back. We also stopped doing just about everything we use to do together to help mitigate some of the struggles of LDRs. at most we might watch an episode of a tv show together.. but that's not terribly interactive.
He's not a passionate guy. He's not real good at expressing his emotions. Super incredible private person. It took me years to break down his wall and get him to tell me the tiny little details of life. Before it was none of my business. Well it feels like those walls are up again. He barely tells me anything about his day or his complaints or thoughts on things.
So I'm sure you can understand that a few weeks ago I arrived at the conclusion that he was distancing himself from me. I escalated into the lowest of the low, full on sobbing, suicide planning mess. I cried in bed for hours and hours. I eventually got to the point where I sent him the following e-mail at 1am.
Are you distancing yourself from me? If you are you have to tell me.I am sure from his perspective this came out of nowhere and wouldn't be the kind of thing I'd want to wake up to if it were me. His response:
The not asking how I'm doing.
Not wanting to return affection.
Barely talking to me.
I am getting some very confusing signals from you.
I know you hate when I am insecure but I have spent the last hour sobbing my eyes out because I don't understand what's going on.
I feel like I've lost my mom and now I'm losing you.
Why aren't we like we were?
Im not sure what you are talking about. Sure I admit its hard to talk to you but im not distancing myself or anything. And if I dont ask how you are doing its cause I know. Seems pointless. You aren't doing good. and I already told you how I feel. Sometimes I dont feel like returning affection.At this point I dropped it. I was low on sleep and stable enough that I didn't want to argue or try to make him understand. The problem is I still feel all those feelings. He's telling me that he still cares but his actions aren't.
I guess my question is how do I explain to him that I need to feel that he cares and not just listen to him say the words. How do I explain to him that I can't always be mentally healthy. In my opinion, losing your mother is a BIG FUCKING DEAL and being depressed and emotionally unstable is kind of expected and should be ok. Especially since I spent my adult life taking care of her in her declining health. How do I help him learn to be OK with that, so that he can not abandon me in sickness, because let me tell you what, it does absolutely wonderful things to your sanity when the man you love isn't loving you because you're depressed. It's a vicious cycle of self loathing and pain.
I'd love specific phrases and things to say to him to help him problem solve.. ways to bring these concerns of mine to him and ask him for feedback and solutions instead coming off as though he's just doing it wrong. I have not spent a good deal of my adult life loving this man to just abandon it because I'm depressed and he doesn't know how to handle it. I really feel as though he's doing what he thinks he should be doing, but doesn't have the tools or knowledge in order to handle being in a relationship with a depressed person.
I guess my question is how do I explain to him that I need to feel that he cares and not just listen to him say the words. How do I explain to him that I can't always be mentally healthy. In my opinion, losing your mother is a BIG FUCKING DEAL and being depressed and emotionally unstable is kind of expected and should be ok. Especially since I spent my adult life taking care of her in her declining health. How do I help him learn to be OK with that, so that he can not abandon me in sickness, because let me tell you what, it does absolutely wonderful things to your sanity when the man you love isn't loving you because you're depressed. It's a vicious cycle of self loathing and pain.
What makes you think you can?
posted by warriorqueen at 10:58 AM on May 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
What makes you think you can?
posted by warriorqueen at 10:58 AM on May 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're asking how to make him want to be in the relationship more, but what he wants and who he wants it with is not something you are allowed to dictate. You can't force someone to love you, and you can't trick them into it.
You don't want to dump him, and that's a choice you get to make (you get to choose not dumping him, I mean, you can't choose whether he decides to stay with you or leave). You get to decide what to allow in your life, and what you need to avoid. If that stops being enough for you, you will have to make a different choice.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:58 AM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
You don't want to dump him, and that's a choice you get to make (you get to choose not dumping him, I mean, you can't choose whether he decides to stay with you or leave). You get to decide what to allow in your life, and what you need to avoid. If that stops being enough for you, you will have to make a different choice.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:58 AM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
There are some strikes against you, and that's going to make this even more challenging.
1) Long Distance Relationship
2) Anxiety and Depression
3) Communication styles very different
Even under the BEST of circumstances any ONE of these could blossom into something very, very difficult to handle.
RIght now, you are in pain.
Right now, he is in pain.
Sometimes, when there is this much going on, you have GOT to give each other some space to grieve and to think and to heal and to rest. I'm not suggesting that you DTMF, I'm suggesting that you relax and take care of yourself and allow him to do the same.
Because of the distance, couples therapy is out of the question, but I would highly suggest that each of you go to individual therapists where you live. This is the exact recommendation I would give if I had either of you as a client in my coaching business.
I get the gut feeling that what you are doing is not making things better, but worse.
These are the times when you really must admit that you don't know how to solve the issue and bring in professional help.
Also, you must start giving some serious thought to letting go of this relationship and allowing yourselves to move on. This is vastly different than DTMF.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 10:59 AM on May 6, 2015 [13 favorites]
1) Long Distance Relationship
2) Anxiety and Depression
3) Communication styles very different
Even under the BEST of circumstances any ONE of these could blossom into something very, very difficult to handle.
RIght now, you are in pain.
Right now, he is in pain.
Sometimes, when there is this much going on, you have GOT to give each other some space to grieve and to think and to heal and to rest. I'm not suggesting that you DTMF, I'm suggesting that you relax and take care of yourself and allow him to do the same.
Because of the distance, couples therapy is out of the question, but I would highly suggest that each of you go to individual therapists where you live. This is the exact recommendation I would give if I had either of you as a client in my coaching business.
I get the gut feeling that what you are doing is not making things better, but worse.
These are the times when you really must admit that you don't know how to solve the issue and bring in professional help.
Also, you must start giving some serious thought to letting go of this relationship and allowing yourselves to move on. This is vastly different than DTMF.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 10:59 AM on May 6, 2015 [13 favorites]
You know, you lost your mom, you feel sad/depressed and you need affection. A person who loves you will be there for you. I'd be blunt -- Do you love me? I need affection and support from you.
The only thing I'd suggest you watch is accusatory framing like he was making me feel bad or unloved. No one listens well to their partner when they feel criticized. This is about how you feel and what you need, so put it that way.
I am not going to tell you to DTMFA but I will say that affection and support are the minimum you should be able to expect from a lover/BF.
posted by bearwife at 10:59 AM on May 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
The only thing I'd suggest you watch is accusatory framing like he was making me feel bad or unloved. No one listens well to their partner when they feel criticized. This is about how you feel and what you need, so put it that way.
I am not going to tell you to DTMFA but I will say that affection and support are the minimum you should be able to expect from a lover/BF.
posted by bearwife at 10:59 AM on May 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
In working relationships, if one partner says something is very important, the other partner listens and accepts that, regardless of whether that thing seems silly, pointless or even hurtful. This is true of all relationships, not just LDRs.
You have to clearly communicate what you need to him. If you need him to ask how you're doing, even if it seems pointless to him, then you need to tell him exactly that. (Reasons why you need it may help you be clear.) Then you let him make up his mind about whether it's more important to him to help you feel better in this time or to feel like he's not wasting his time on a pointless activity. And then you respect his decision, and move forward from there.
"Moving forward" means trying to create a fulfilling, happy life for yourself, not doing something rash or self-destructive. In my opinion, this guy isn't worth any time or effort, but your opinion is not mine. The steps above are what respectful adults in relationships do, even if the relationship is nearing an end.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:00 AM on May 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
You have to clearly communicate what you need to him. If you need him to ask how you're doing, even if it seems pointless to him, then you need to tell him exactly that. (Reasons why you need it may help you be clear.) Then you let him make up his mind about whether it's more important to him to help you feel better in this time or to feel like he's not wasting his time on a pointless activity. And then you respect his decision, and move forward from there.
"Moving forward" means trying to create a fulfilling, happy life for yourself, not doing something rash or self-destructive. In my opinion, this guy isn't worth any time or effort, but your opinion is not mine. The steps above are what respectful adults in relationships do, even if the relationship is nearing an end.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:00 AM on May 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
He is doing it wrong and he's going to continue to do it wrong because he doesn't know how it's done. He can't be taught how it's done by you because he's got a case of the ptsd from the earlier breakup and his continual failures in this arena. This does not mean you must DTMFA if you do not want to DTMFA, but it does mean you must find the support you need, that anybody in your situation would need, from other sources who can actually give it to you while he either does or does not learn--on his own, without instruction because he reads all instruction as criticism/denigration no matter how it's phrased--how to do this difficult thing. Losing your mother is a huge deal and of course it should be expected and completely ok that you're depressed. You're working to get better. That's your job right now. Backburner his ass and let him figure this out or not. You're not dumping him, you're just not paying obsessive attn. to every tiny thing he does or fails to do while he's floundering around trying to figure this out. Maybe later you'll have time to "work on us," but not now while you're in acute emotional hemmorage.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:01 AM on May 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 11:01 AM on May 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
You cannot change your partner. You can only change yourself. You cannot control whether or not he decides to end your relationship. You can use all of your limited time and energy to work on being the healthiest you can be. That's what you have to focus on right now, not this guy. Try to accept whatever he can give you right now gracefully and focus the rest of your energy on dealing with your grief and your illness. I wish you the best.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:02 AM on May 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:02 AM on May 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think you should visualize to yourself how you will feel if this never changes. You're not talking about a situation that is new - you're saying that for several years he's been like this but it's gotten worse since your mother's death. You've adapted by suppressing your needs and feelings in order to get - something? - out of the relationship. Perhaps you're happiest in a relationship where you are the more loving one and that's just the emotional style where you feel the most secure?
If this were just one situation, I would surmise that the death of a parent is really disturbing to him and he is not sure how to handle your grief - like when people say nothing/the wrong thing after a tragedy because they have no models. It is concerning to me that this has been going on for years, though.
You need more from him - you have to be real that you just may not get it. If you aren't willing to give up on the sunk costs of your relationship, I think you need to sit with what that's going to mean. It's an okay decision, I think - "chase your dreams, you'll be happier!" is a bit of a risk. But that means you need to be really, really at home with the idea that this is about as good as it gets.
posted by Frowner at 11:05 AM on May 6, 2015 [10 favorites]
If this were just one situation, I would surmise that the death of a parent is really disturbing to him and he is not sure how to handle your grief - like when people say nothing/the wrong thing after a tragedy because they have no models. It is concerning to me that this has been going on for years, though.
You need more from him - you have to be real that you just may not get it. If you aren't willing to give up on the sunk costs of your relationship, I think you need to sit with what that's going to mean. It's an okay decision, I think - "chase your dreams, you'll be happier!" is a bit of a risk. But that means you need to be really, really at home with the idea that this is about as good as it gets.
posted by Frowner at 11:05 AM on May 6, 2015 [10 favorites]
One of the hallmarks of depression is irritability. It's not easy for the not-depressed person; e aware of your effect on him. You may be quite self0absorbed; natural, given the loss of your Mom, but, again, it's difficult. Ask what he needs. Your feelings and behavior are natural and reasonable, but that doesn't make it easy for the other people in your life. A grief support group may help.
posted by theora55 at 11:18 AM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 11:18 AM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
He's telling me that he still cares but his actions aren't.
Then tell him what you need specifically. If you want to stay in this relationship then you need to not make this about how you feel or he feels because those do not seem to match up. You need to tell him what you want and be clear about it.
- I need to hear back when I text you
- I need you to ask me how I'm doing even if you think it's going to be "the same"
The caveat with this is, as with all relationships, you need to figure out your dealbreakers if he doesn't do these things. You seem to think that because you love him and he says he loves you that he should KNOW how to manage your feelings and your situation in a way that is appropriate to you. He doesn't. And you seem to think that he should welcome advice from you about how to treat you better. He may not.
It's a vicious cycle of self loathing and pain.
The reality of your relationship is that it kinda sucks, has sucked for a while, and that is being drawn into stark relief now that you need him to be there for you and he is not. And I hear you that is a bad feeling. I had an interaction like that with a former partner when my grandmother died (not the same but similar) where I was like "I need you to take special steps to be there for me emotionally because this is really important" and, well, he didn't. And said so. And I had to decide what to do about that.
You can't make him "not abandon you" but you can maybe talk to him about why you feel abandoned and, if he's not trying to abandon you, how he can communicate that more clearly to you. You can also, if you're going to stay in this relationship, work on acceptance that this is how he is and reframe the way you look at things within the relationship. If you're in a relationship where he is NOT wrong for behaving the way he is (and you are not wrong either) that needs to be true in your heart. I know you're in a lot of pain and this has been a crappy time, but you seem to be wanting him to become a different person when what has to happen is for you to become a different person if you want to find a way for the two of you to stay together.
posted by jessamyn at 11:30 AM on May 6, 2015 [14 favorites]
Then tell him what you need specifically. If you want to stay in this relationship then you need to not make this about how you feel or he feels because those do not seem to match up. You need to tell him what you want and be clear about it.
- I need to hear back when I text you
- I need you to ask me how I'm doing even if you think it's going to be "the same"
The caveat with this is, as with all relationships, you need to figure out your dealbreakers if he doesn't do these things. You seem to think that because you love him and he says he loves you that he should KNOW how to manage your feelings and your situation in a way that is appropriate to you. He doesn't. And you seem to think that he should welcome advice from you about how to treat you better. He may not.
It's a vicious cycle of self loathing and pain.
The reality of your relationship is that it kinda sucks, has sucked for a while, and that is being drawn into stark relief now that you need him to be there for you and he is not. And I hear you that is a bad feeling. I had an interaction like that with a former partner when my grandmother died (not the same but similar) where I was like "I need you to take special steps to be there for me emotionally because this is really important" and, well, he didn't. And said so. And I had to decide what to do about that.
You can't make him "not abandon you" but you can maybe talk to him about why you feel abandoned and, if he's not trying to abandon you, how he can communicate that more clearly to you. You can also, if you're going to stay in this relationship, work on acceptance that this is how he is and reframe the way you look at things within the relationship. If you're in a relationship where he is NOT wrong for behaving the way he is (and you are not wrong either) that needs to be true in your heart. I know you're in a lot of pain and this has been a crappy time, but you seem to be wanting him to become a different person when what has to happen is for you to become a different person if you want to find a way for the two of you to stay together.
posted by jessamyn at 11:30 AM on May 6, 2015 [14 favorites]
Hm. This is tough. At some point I think you have to accept that you cannot change other people. The decision you get to make is about your behavior -- that is, do you want to be in a relationship with a person with X qualities, or not. But you don't get to turn quality X into quality Y just because that's what you need/want from a relationship. It sounds like your BF is just NOT a very affectionate/intimate person -- he wasn't before your mom's passing, and he's not now. Now, for me personally this would be a dealbreaker because I am a SUPER affectionate person and need that from a partner. For other people it would be fine either because they are also not affectionate, or because it's a compromise they are willing to make.
Remember that people are only going to change if THEY want to change and it is largely internally driven. In this case, it sounds like you have asked your boyfriend to make some changes for your relationship, and he has said no. So clearly he does not really want to change this quality about himself. Ultimately, it's now on you to decide if you're okay with that or not.
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:32 AM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Remember that people are only going to change if THEY want to change and it is largely internally driven. In this case, it sounds like you have asked your boyfriend to make some changes for your relationship, and he has said no. So clearly he does not really want to change this quality about himself. Ultimately, it's now on you to decide if you're okay with that or not.
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:32 AM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
It sounds like your relationship has always been long distance and you only see each other every few months? I suspect that part of what’s happening isn’t entirely a response to you being depressed, but that as he’s getting older, he has more stuff going on in his day-to-day life that distracts him from his primarily online girlfriend. Maintaining a long distance relationship for that amount of time is brutal, especially if there’s no plan for moving closer.
I think the best you can do is tell him exactly what you want from him (always reply to your e-mails, check in once a day, whatever is important to you) and see how he responds. On your end, you may need to recognize that your relationship is changing and adjust to having different expectations of what you will get from it.
Also, when I’m depressed, no matter what my partners do for me, it doesn’t feel like enough. It also makes me paranoid and feeling like no one cares about me. My last partner got super frustrated because no matter how much he gave, it didn’t have a significant effect on my depression, so it felt like he was pointlessly throwing all his effort into an abyss. And he had a point. It is absolutely fair to have expectations of care from our partners, but it’s also understandable that they can’t keep throwing their all in every day for months.
posted by metasarah at 11:45 AM on May 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think the best you can do is tell him exactly what you want from him (always reply to your e-mails, check in once a day, whatever is important to you) and see how he responds. On your end, you may need to recognize that your relationship is changing and adjust to having different expectations of what you will get from it.
Also, when I’m depressed, no matter what my partners do for me, it doesn’t feel like enough. It also makes me paranoid and feeling like no one cares about me. My last partner got super frustrated because no matter how much he gave, it didn’t have a significant effect on my depression, so it felt like he was pointlessly throwing all his effort into an abyss. And he had a point. It is absolutely fair to have expectations of care from our partners, but it’s also understandable that they can’t keep throwing their all in every day for months.
posted by metasarah at 11:45 AM on May 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: You seem to think that because you love him and he says he loves you that he should KNOW how to manage your feelings and your situation in a way that is appropriate to you. He doesn't. And you seem to think that he should welcome advice from you about how to treat you better. He may not.
If he doesn't know, and might not welcome the knowledge so that he does know, then.. what. That's it? It stops there? I'm suppose to accept that I can't even try to help because it might be fruitless?
I'm not trying to change him. I'm not trying to make him be a different person or demand that he be. I'm saying if a relationship is a two way street then I need a map to give to him. If at that point he decides that he doesn't want to use the map.. then I'll have at least tried.
posted by royalsong at 11:49 AM on May 6, 2015
If he doesn't know, and might not welcome the knowledge so that he does know, then.. what. That's it? It stops there? I'm suppose to accept that I can't even try to help because it might be fruitless?
I'm not trying to change him. I'm not trying to make him be a different person or demand that he be. I'm saying if a relationship is a two way street then I need a map to give to him. If at that point he decides that he doesn't want to use the map.. then I'll have at least tried.
posted by royalsong at 11:49 AM on May 6, 2015
For you, I think that you need to continue therapy ASAP. With a childhood in an abusive home and tailspin suicidal depression happening at intervals, you need more therapy than group sessions that end after a certain number of visits. Medication is not enough to fix the underlying issues. This will make the biggest difference for you and, also, for the people in your life.
I think that your boyfriend is not wanting to confront the fact that he's ill-equipped to deal with this current situation and also that he wants to extract himself from the relationship. He's backing away slowly and disengaging. At some level, I think he wants you to do the dirty work of ending the relationship. It's not the bravest approach, but there are clear signs that this is what he's doing. Your late-night email is a list of your needs. It's clear and direct. It's not mysterious. He received that list, that map of your needs, and his response was, "I'm not sure what you're talking about" and then went on to minimize your concerns and tell you that it's pointless for him to engage further. He's telling you that he's unable to meet your needs for whatever reason.
The long and short of it is that he can't take care of you the way you need to be cared for. He's realized this at some level and his response has been to slowly remove himself from your life and be more unavailable. Refocus your efforts on getting yourself the therapy you need and try to reconcile that there are no magic words that you can say to him that will make him into the partner you want him to be. He doesn't seem to have the capacity to be that person at this stage in his life. I'm sorry that you're in such a tough place right now. Lean on friends and take care of yourself. Wishing you the best.
posted by quince at 11:58 AM on May 6, 2015 [30 favorites]
I think that your boyfriend is not wanting to confront the fact that he's ill-equipped to deal with this current situation and also that he wants to extract himself from the relationship. He's backing away slowly and disengaging. At some level, I think he wants you to do the dirty work of ending the relationship. It's not the bravest approach, but there are clear signs that this is what he's doing. Your late-night email is a list of your needs. It's clear and direct. It's not mysterious. He received that list, that map of your needs, and his response was, "I'm not sure what you're talking about" and then went on to minimize your concerns and tell you that it's pointless for him to engage further. He's telling you that he's unable to meet your needs for whatever reason.
The long and short of it is that he can't take care of you the way you need to be cared for. He's realized this at some level and his response has been to slowly remove himself from your life and be more unavailable. Refocus your efforts on getting yourself the therapy you need and try to reconcile that there are no magic words that you can say to him that will make him into the partner you want him to be. He doesn't seem to have the capacity to be that person at this stage in his life. I'm sorry that you're in such a tough place right now. Lean on friends and take care of yourself. Wishing you the best.
posted by quince at 11:58 AM on May 6, 2015 [30 favorites]
You should not expect your long distance boyfriend to be the main source of comfort to you following the death of your mother. Go to therapy, find a support group, friends, etcetera. Reach out to your family.
"In sickness and in health" is a wedding vow a husband takes. A boyfriend is not a husband. The death of a parent is a big deal but a non-spouse is in a different position than a spouse.
Even in a marriage, it may be healthier to find other support.
You may simply be too much for him to handle emotionally. He may not be able to handle your pain as well as whatever is going on in his life.
Depression kills relationships. Treat yours first, and for now make a rule that you won't text/email your boyfriend when really depressed- you will text/email your therapist.
Good luck and I'm so sorry for your loss.
posted by quincunx at 12:02 PM on May 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
"In sickness and in health" is a wedding vow a husband takes. A boyfriend is not a husband. The death of a parent is a big deal but a non-spouse is in a different position than a spouse.
Even in a marriage, it may be healthier to find other support.
You may simply be too much for him to handle emotionally. He may not be able to handle your pain as well as whatever is going on in his life.
Depression kills relationships. Treat yours first, and for now make a rule that you won't text/email your boyfriend when really depressed- you will text/email your therapist.
Good luck and I'm so sorry for your loss.
posted by quincunx at 12:02 PM on May 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
This isn't a you problem, this is a him problem. Your boyfriend avoids making changes by distancing himself whenever he senses you need him. This is manipulative. It leads to you not asking for help, so it's effective, too. Stop making this easy for him by backing away. You need to get your needs met, you are not being unreasonable. Be direct and persistent.
posted by waving at 12:14 PM on May 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by waving at 12:14 PM on May 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Given your update, I guess I would ask why you think he doesn't already have a roadmap? It seems like you've already asked for what you want/need from the relationship on many occasions, and you've gotten shut down. If that's not the case and I'm misreading your question, then I would just schedule a time to Skype or Facetime (always better when you can see the other person's body language!) and lay it out for him. Just be really clear and honest -- "This is what I feel like I need from this relationship. Do you think it is something you can offer or that we can at least discuss?" And then you go from there. If he isn't even willing to have the conversation (which it sounds like might not be the case from your description), then you sort of have your answer. You can't force someone to communicate with you.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:16 PM on May 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:16 PM on May 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
If he doesn't know, and might not welcome the knowledge so that he does know, then.. what. That's it? It stops there?
This is correct. If you tell him "you're not treating me the way I want you to" and he says [OR DISPLAYS WITH HIS ACTIONS BY IGNORING YOUR REQUESTS] "I don't care" it is over, it has stopped, it is expired.
You cannot perform both sides of the relationship yourself.
When you're with someone who is a suitable fit for you and who cares about your well-being, you do not have to micromanage them. You don't have to give them a map because they are invested enough in the situation to navigate it themselves. It is only in occasional exceptions that one person has to turn to the other and say "I know you think you're helping by doing X but actually I more need Y at the moment."
You don't have to tell people who love you to care how you are. They do not tell you that they don't bother to ask because they already know you suck. That's a shitty, low-quality kind of a person. That's not a person who even likes you. This is not a person who is good for your mental health.
Twelve years is too fucking long already. How much more of your life are you going to let slide by with a paper boyfriend?
posted by Lyn Never at 12:24 PM on May 6, 2015 [43 favorites]
This is correct. If you tell him "you're not treating me the way I want you to" and he says [OR DISPLAYS WITH HIS ACTIONS BY IGNORING YOUR REQUESTS] "I don't care" it is over, it has stopped, it is expired.
You cannot perform both sides of the relationship yourself.
When you're with someone who is a suitable fit for you and who cares about your well-being, you do not have to micromanage them. You don't have to give them a map because they are invested enough in the situation to navigate it themselves. It is only in occasional exceptions that one person has to turn to the other and say "I know you think you're helping by doing X but actually I more need Y at the moment."
You don't have to tell people who love you to care how you are. They do not tell you that they don't bother to ask because they already know you suck. That's a shitty, low-quality kind of a person. That's not a person who even likes you. This is not a person who is good for your mental health.
Twelve years is too fucking long already. How much more of your life are you going to let slide by with a paper boyfriend?
posted by Lyn Never at 12:24 PM on May 6, 2015 [43 favorites]
The Sunk Cost Fallacy in Relationships: NPR (audio), many print articles.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:45 PM on May 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 12:45 PM on May 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
He wants you to break up with him. He's not in the relationship, he just doesn't want to pull the trigger.
An ultimatum would be a good place to start and finish your attempts to save this. Exactly what you need and want, if he doesn't meet those needs, it's over. You have to be willing to have 'ending the relationship forever' be an outcome on the table if you want any shot at shaking this up enough to make it work.
posted by French Fry at 1:16 PM on May 6, 2015
An ultimatum would be a good place to start and finish your attempts to save this. Exactly what you need and want, if he doesn't meet those needs, it's over. You have to be willing to have 'ending the relationship forever' be an outcome on the table if you want any shot at shaking this up enough to make it work.
posted by French Fry at 1:16 PM on May 6, 2015
You cannot perform both sides of the relationship yourself.
Oh if only I had learned this earlier.
Nothing else really to say.
posted by celtalitha at 1:26 PM on May 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
Oh if only I had learned this earlier.
Nothing else really to say.
posted by celtalitha at 1:26 PM on May 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
Yeah you were pretty clear already with what you said, and I agree with the people who are telling you that this guy is not holding up his end of the relationship and you can't make him.
If you want to try again and rephrase what you said, here are some lines you can work with:
"I am going through a hard time now as you know, and since you are my boyfriend I want to lean on you for a little more emotional support. I am still going to see my therapist, but it would be great if you could reach out more to help me."
"Could you make more of an effort to contact me by [phone/email/text], like maybe [once a day/twice a week/whatever]? Even if you aren't feeling very chatty, it would make me feel a lot less lonely."
"When I say or do something affectionate, could you try harder to return the sentiment so I don't feel rejected?"
"When I contact you, can you reach out to me that day or the day after?"
"Do you think you can make time for another visit soon? It would be great for me to have something like that to look forward to. Or can I come visit you soon?"
Good luck, I hope being straightforward with expectations and instructions will help. Honestly, this guy just sounds like he doesn't want to shoulder any of your burden though so I would be prepared for him to say no to these (simple and easy) requests. He does not sound like a good partner for you.
posted by rmless at 1:45 PM on May 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
If you want to try again and rephrase what you said, here are some lines you can work with:
"I am going through a hard time now as you know, and since you are my boyfriend I want to lean on you for a little more emotional support. I am still going to see my therapist, but it would be great if you could reach out more to help me."
"Could you make more of an effort to contact me by [phone/email/text], like maybe [once a day/twice a week/whatever]? Even if you aren't feeling very chatty, it would make me feel a lot less lonely."
"When I say or do something affectionate, could you try harder to return the sentiment so I don't feel rejected?"
"When I contact you, can you reach out to me that day or the day after?"
"Do you think you can make time for another visit soon? It would be great for me to have something like that to look forward to. Or can I come visit you soon?"
Good luck, I hope being straightforward with expectations and instructions will help. Honestly, this guy just sounds like he doesn't want to shoulder any of your burden though so I would be prepared for him to say no to these (simple and easy) requests. He does not sound like a good partner for you.
posted by rmless at 1:45 PM on May 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'd love specific phrases and things to say to him to help him problem solve.. ways to bring these concerns of mine to him and ask him for feedback and solutions instead coming off as though he's just doing it wrong.
I agree with jessamyn. You need to be really, really specific about what you want. Some people need it to be laid out in extremely literal terms what their partner actually wants from them.
So you'd want to say something like (obviously, modify as fits your own needs and your own voice): "I'm feeling really depressed lately and I would really like to have your support. For me, that means that you reply to my emails and texts at least within a day or two, and if you aren't replying because you aren't feeling emotionally up to it, I need you to specifically tell me that instead of going silent. It also means I'm just looking for a way to vent and a shoulder to cry on. When you ask me how I'm doing, that's not because you don't know how I'm doing, but it opens up an opportunity for me to talk and get this stuff out."
Then: "Is that going to work for you? If there's anything I asked for that you don't think you can do, I want us to come to a compromise. I love you and I want both of us to do the work we need to make this relationship happen."
Then: "Also, I want you to be really clear about your own needs all the time. I can't always tell what's going on in your mind and it's a lot easier for me to support you and be a good partner to you if you communicate your needs and if there's anything I can do. Communicating when you just need some space is part of that, because I don't want to have to guess."
Then, you need to ask YOURSELF a question: If I know that my partner will always have times when he "doesn't feel like returning affection", is this a sustainable relationship for me and can I work within these parameters, or is this actually a dealbreaker for me? Even if you are in love with someone and want to be with that person, you may still need to break it off if something really is a dealbreaker.
Finally, you and your partner may want to consider whether he is depressed himself. I think he is showing some potential signs.
posted by capricorn at 2:13 PM on May 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
I agree with jessamyn. You need to be really, really specific about what you want. Some people need it to be laid out in extremely literal terms what their partner actually wants from them.
So you'd want to say something like (obviously, modify as fits your own needs and your own voice): "I'm feeling really depressed lately and I would really like to have your support. For me, that means that you reply to my emails and texts at least within a day or two, and if you aren't replying because you aren't feeling emotionally up to it, I need you to specifically tell me that instead of going silent. It also means I'm just looking for a way to vent and a shoulder to cry on. When you ask me how I'm doing, that's not because you don't know how I'm doing, but it opens up an opportunity for me to talk and get this stuff out."
Then: "Is that going to work for you? If there's anything I asked for that you don't think you can do, I want us to come to a compromise. I love you and I want both of us to do the work we need to make this relationship happen."
Then: "Also, I want you to be really clear about your own needs all the time. I can't always tell what's going on in your mind and it's a lot easier for me to support you and be a good partner to you if you communicate your needs and if there's anything I can do. Communicating when you just need some space is part of that, because I don't want to have to guess."
Then, you need to ask YOURSELF a question: If I know that my partner will always have times when he "doesn't feel like returning affection", is this a sustainable relationship for me and can I work within these parameters, or is this actually a dealbreaker for me? Even if you are in love with someone and want to be with that person, you may still need to break it off if something really is a dealbreaker.
Finally, you and your partner may want to consider whether he is depressed himself. I think he is showing some potential signs.
posted by capricorn at 2:13 PM on May 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
I've done the long distance relationship, with two different boyfriends. It really takes two to make it work.
With the first boyfriend, I knew within a couple weeks that it wasn't going to work out. He had all the best intentions, but he was the sort of boyfriend who would listen and nod along as I expressed my needs, clearly and explicitly, then do absolutely nothing. I gave him several chances, and oh, how he wanted to make me the happiest girl in the world and I deserved nothing less!! But when it came down to it, he was all talk. And so I realized that he didn't actually care enough to put forth effort that might inconvenience himself in any way, which was far less than what I wanted or deserved. The overtures and grand pronouncements to win me back, that he made after I broke up with him, were more of the same - all talk.
My second boyfriend is my husband now. The first week that we were long distance, he was out catching up with friends most days and we didn't get to Skype or chat a whole lot. It took just ONE tearful Skype call from me, for him to understand how much I missed him and missed regular communication with him, for him to rearrange his schedule so we'd have time to talk at least once a day, every day (we had an 8/9 hour timezone difference - the timezone difference with the first boyfriend was negligible). If I was unhappy, and especially if there was something he could do to alleviate that, he wanted to know.
Your boyfriend sounds a lot like my first boyfriend, except that your boyfriend isn't even pretending to care. I know you don't want suggestions to DTMFA, so I guess the question is, how many more years to you want to throw at this relationship, hoping for things to be different? You can't change him (and you are trying to change him). He will only change if he wants to, and he has been quite consistent in not changing over the course of a very long relationship. Further, he has said pretty much that he's not willing to change for you. And he's proven that through his actions (you said he's not good with words, so don't listen to his words - look at his actions). As many above have said, you gave him the map, and he disregarded it. He doesn't want your help in becoming a better boyfriend, because he has no interest in becoming a better boyfriend, and you can't help someone who doesn't want it.
You can't make a relationship better by sheer one-sided determination, and what's more is that his treatment of you and rejection of your needs is possibly (probably?) doing a number on your self esteem and worsening your depression. As someone else pointed out above, you're already making it on your own, without his support. You might even find it easier to do so without the problems in your relationship weighing on you so heavily. If he wants to see you or hear from you, let him reach out whenever that might be. In the meantime, direct all your resources to working on yourself.
posted by keep it under cover at 5:36 PM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
With the first boyfriend, I knew within a couple weeks that it wasn't going to work out. He had all the best intentions, but he was the sort of boyfriend who would listen and nod along as I expressed my needs, clearly and explicitly, then do absolutely nothing. I gave him several chances, and oh, how he wanted to make me the happiest girl in the world and I deserved nothing less!! But when it came down to it, he was all talk. And so I realized that he didn't actually care enough to put forth effort that might inconvenience himself in any way, which was far less than what I wanted or deserved. The overtures and grand pronouncements to win me back, that he made after I broke up with him, were more of the same - all talk.
My second boyfriend is my husband now. The first week that we were long distance, he was out catching up with friends most days and we didn't get to Skype or chat a whole lot. It took just ONE tearful Skype call from me, for him to understand how much I missed him and missed regular communication with him, for him to rearrange his schedule so we'd have time to talk at least once a day, every day (we had an 8/9 hour timezone difference - the timezone difference with the first boyfriend was negligible). If I was unhappy, and especially if there was something he could do to alleviate that, he wanted to know.
Your boyfriend sounds a lot like my first boyfriend, except that your boyfriend isn't even pretending to care. I know you don't want suggestions to DTMFA, so I guess the question is, how many more years to you want to throw at this relationship, hoping for things to be different? You can't change him (and you are trying to change him). He will only change if he wants to, and he has been quite consistent in not changing over the course of a very long relationship. Further, he has said pretty much that he's not willing to change for you. And he's proven that through his actions (you said he's not good with words, so don't listen to his words - look at his actions). As many above have said, you gave him the map, and he disregarded it. He doesn't want your help in becoming a better boyfriend, because he has no interest in becoming a better boyfriend, and you can't help someone who doesn't want it.
You can't make a relationship better by sheer one-sided determination, and what's more is that his treatment of you and rejection of your needs is possibly (probably?) doing a number on your self esteem and worsening your depression. As someone else pointed out above, you're already making it on your own, without his support. You might even find it easier to do so without the problems in your relationship weighing on you so heavily. If he wants to see you or hear from you, let him reach out whenever that might be. In the meantime, direct all your resources to working on yourself.
posted by keep it under cover at 5:36 PM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Here's the thing:
I guess my question is how do I explain to him that I need to feel that he cares and not just listen to him say the words.
Fundamentally, you're not really asking for him to do something. You're asking for YOU to FEEL DIFFERENTLY. Which is the most understandable ask in the world from someone who's depressed and grieving. But honey, it can't be done, not like that.
The things you are needing, truly, right now, you can only get from and give to yourself. The person you need to feel cares for you is YOU. And the way that you do that is by doing the super super hard thing, and getting yourself into ongoing therapy and getting a handle on your mental health. It's so hard. It sucks a lot. But even as it sucks you will start to eventually feel that love you're giving yourself, and then everything with your boyfriend is going to look different in that light. Who knows.
One other thought: Depression can make it impossible to feel anything good, to feel any love or care, even when the very most loving boyfriend in the whole world is lovin' all up on you like some gross love machine. Not that your boyfriend is necessarily doing that. If he's doing as you say, he's actually mostly being a dick, with perhaps a little smidge of unfortunate but understandable self-preservation in there. But remember...depression is lots of things but mostly a liar. It warps peoples' love into nothing, it warps their boundaries into personal attacks, and it warps their well-meaning words into scathing criticism. It might, possibly, maybe, be telling you lies about your boyfriend.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:35 PM on May 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
I guess my question is how do I explain to him that I need to feel that he cares and not just listen to him say the words.
Fundamentally, you're not really asking for him to do something. You're asking for YOU to FEEL DIFFERENTLY. Which is the most understandable ask in the world from someone who's depressed and grieving. But honey, it can't be done, not like that.
The things you are needing, truly, right now, you can only get from and give to yourself. The person you need to feel cares for you is YOU. And the way that you do that is by doing the super super hard thing, and getting yourself into ongoing therapy and getting a handle on your mental health. It's so hard. It sucks a lot. But even as it sucks you will start to eventually feel that love you're giving yourself, and then everything with your boyfriend is going to look different in that light. Who knows.
One other thought: Depression can make it impossible to feel anything good, to feel any love or care, even when the very most loving boyfriend in the whole world is lovin' all up on you like some gross love machine. Not that your boyfriend is necessarily doing that. If he's doing as you say, he's actually mostly being a dick, with perhaps a little smidge of unfortunate but understandable self-preservation in there. But remember...depression is lots of things but mostly a liar. It warps peoples' love into nothing, it warps their boundaries into personal attacks, and it warps their well-meaning words into scathing criticism. It might, possibly, maybe, be telling you lies about your boyfriend.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:35 PM on May 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
Okay, despite the long term depression battles you've experienced over the years, you now have a situation that is CATEGORICALLY readable - the opposite of the way depression is often unreadable by others close to us. The death of one's parent is one of the universal things people have/or will have to deal with. This is the one situation that beyond all the other 'royalsong's depression' things he's hitherto distanced himself from: his partner lost her mother recently. That's readable and actionable in the most conventional of senses - even acquaintances know enough to bring casseroles, condole and be available for helping out. That he can't step up in this situation could be that he's at overwhelm point with your needs [even this very readable one]; has no social clue even of the significance of losing one's parent and has pathologised a really normal event to grieve over/get triggered over into Just the Way You Are ; or, he really doesn't care about your feelings enough to get the fuck over with-holding affection.
I didn't have the provocation you have in many respects but I finally pulled the plug on my marriage a few years ago, when an entirely readable, non-pathologisable and normal interference occurred that could have occurred to anyone NOT pre-disposed to misery. I locked down all the other shame I had about being a needy person, and just measured this one categorically readable event. He didn't step up even when it was socially signposted all over how one might be able to deal with recently bereaved people. A few years out from that long relationship with an otherwise fun, smart, gifted guy, I don't have all that angst about neediness or anxiety. I realise now that I needed normal things and plenty of other potential partners I might have would not bat an eyelid at having to condole with me on the loss of a parent, with no excuses.
posted by honey-barbara at 8:16 PM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
I didn't have the provocation you have in many respects but I finally pulled the plug on my marriage a few years ago, when an entirely readable, non-pathologisable and normal interference occurred that could have occurred to anyone NOT pre-disposed to misery. I locked down all the other shame I had about being a needy person, and just measured this one categorically readable event. He didn't step up even when it was socially signposted all over how one might be able to deal with recently bereaved people. A few years out from that long relationship with an otherwise fun, smart, gifted guy, I don't have all that angst about neediness or anxiety. I realise now that I needed normal things and plenty of other potential partners I might have would not bat an eyelid at having to condole with me on the loss of a parent, with no excuses.
posted by honey-barbara at 8:16 PM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
You're throwing your love and energy into an abyss and have been for what, decades? Imagine how much stronger and healthier you would be if you took that love and focused it inwards. The question is, how much longer do you want to keep doing this? And how much of your life do you want to sacrifice for this? He's getting on with his life, and he's pulled the pin, he just hasn't bothered to inform you because his life is still going on happily without you.
By the way, when someone you love tells you he knows that things suck for you and he doesn't want to return affection or basically deal with you when you need him the most, that's his way of telling you he's done. Regardless of fault, etc, this is not someone you can ever rely on for anything, much less to be with you at your worst, in sickness and health etc.
So the relationship is over, it just comes down to who actually says the words and how much longer this pointlessness drags on for. I'm so sorry. Take care of you.
posted by Jubey at 8:37 PM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
By the way, when someone you love tells you he knows that things suck for you and he doesn't want to return affection or basically deal with you when you need him the most, that's his way of telling you he's done. Regardless of fault, etc, this is not someone you can ever rely on for anything, much less to be with you at your worst, in sickness and health etc.
So the relationship is over, it just comes down to who actually says the words and how much longer this pointlessness drags on for. I'm so sorry. Take care of you.
posted by Jubey at 8:37 PM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nearly all affection has stopped.. which isn't abnormal, he goes through these strange "I don't want kisses right now" phases occasionally.. only this one has lasted since october. He's also talking to me less. We go through stretches of almost saying nothing to each other. I will send him texts or e-mails and not get replies back. We also stopped doing just about everything we use to do together to help mitigate some of the struggles of LDRs. at most we might watch an episode of a tv show together.. but that's not terribly interactive.
Please understand that what I am about to say is coming form a place of compassion and first-person understanding of what suicidal depression is like and how it can affect relationships.
You don't need to DTMFA, because he has already checked out of this relationship. He hasn't shown you affection for six months. He isn't communicating with you even on a surface level. He isn't doing the together-things that you two used to do. He isn't showing any interest in, or concern for, your mental and emotional state. He isn't interested in actually discussing any of this.
I totally understand why you are wanting this to continue, and why you are wanting to try and make it all better--he's been a constant in your life, and in turmoil we often cling to the constants we know, whether they're healthy for us or not.
The thing is, there's no map you can show him that will change him. Relationships are a team effort, and he's decided to stop being part of the team. And none of us can control what someone else does or feels--we can only control ourselves and how we react. I'd suggest you find a healthy way to grieve the passing of the relationship, with lots of support from whoever supports you, and move on. Therapy would also be a great idea. (And, please visit this page; it has resources that will be useful for you no matter how things turn out with him).
You can, if you feel you must, make a last-ditch effort. I'd advise that you cope ahead for this conversation--have a friend standing by, as in able to be physically present in the same room as you, for afterwards. Think ahead to the self-care you will need if the conversation goes poorly. Basically, to repeat something I've said before around here, this conversation will be jumping off a diving board--make sure the pool is full of water for when you land, in case he doesn't provide any.
In any case, I'd suggest a few things:
1) Stick to 'I' statements. I feel, I like, I need. This can help to prevent him feeling defensive; 'you' statements can come across as accusatory and attacking, even if not meant that way.
2) Try using the DEAR MAN GIVE FAST rubric that's used in DBT. (Just follow the link, it'll go through the mnemonic).
3) I'm assuming you two are still some distance apart. If you cannot have this conversation in person, do it by phone--or, better, Skype--at a time when you both have the time to devote wholly to it. No distractions on either side. Text, whether IM, SMS, or email, is generally ineffective for deep conversations like this where nuance is so very important. (Ask me how I know!)
4) Write down beforehand--preferably a couple days beforehand--exactly a) what you want as a result of the conversation, b) what you are going to ask for, c) what you are willing to compromise on. Be honest with yourself about what you truly need, and ask for 100% of what you need. Negotiate from there. Starting with 50% of what you need and negotiating down is likely to be ineffective.
5) Figure out your priorities in the situation. Is your priority a) self respect, b) maintaining the relationship, c) achieving an objective? Yes, they're all intertwined. If you have to pick only one, what will it be? Tailor what you are going to say--while still being honest with him and yourself--to achieve your priority.
6) And seriously, saying this as someone who has been in your shoes in many ways, have a friend physically present for afterwards. You may want to celebrate, you may want to cry, you may need to talk it out with someone else. Whatever happens, it's likely to be safest for you to have someone physically in the same room as you until your emotions--whatever they are--have calmed.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:57 PM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Please understand that what I am about to say is coming form a place of compassion and first-person understanding of what suicidal depression is like and how it can affect relationships.
You don't need to DTMFA, because he has already checked out of this relationship. He hasn't shown you affection for six months. He isn't communicating with you even on a surface level. He isn't doing the together-things that you two used to do. He isn't showing any interest in, or concern for, your mental and emotional state. He isn't interested in actually discussing any of this.
I totally understand why you are wanting this to continue, and why you are wanting to try and make it all better--he's been a constant in your life, and in turmoil we often cling to the constants we know, whether they're healthy for us or not.
The thing is, there's no map you can show him that will change him. Relationships are a team effort, and he's decided to stop being part of the team. And none of us can control what someone else does or feels--we can only control ourselves and how we react. I'd suggest you find a healthy way to grieve the passing of the relationship, with lots of support from whoever supports you, and move on. Therapy would also be a great idea. (And, please visit this page; it has resources that will be useful for you no matter how things turn out with him).
You can, if you feel you must, make a last-ditch effort. I'd advise that you cope ahead for this conversation--have a friend standing by, as in able to be physically present in the same room as you, for afterwards. Think ahead to the self-care you will need if the conversation goes poorly. Basically, to repeat something I've said before around here, this conversation will be jumping off a diving board--make sure the pool is full of water for when you land, in case he doesn't provide any.
In any case, I'd suggest a few things:
1) Stick to 'I' statements. I feel, I like, I need. This can help to prevent him feeling defensive; 'you' statements can come across as accusatory and attacking, even if not meant that way.
2) Try using the DEAR MAN GIVE FAST rubric that's used in DBT. (Just follow the link, it'll go through the mnemonic).
3) I'm assuming you two are still some distance apart. If you cannot have this conversation in person, do it by phone--or, better, Skype--at a time when you both have the time to devote wholly to it. No distractions on either side. Text, whether IM, SMS, or email, is generally ineffective for deep conversations like this where nuance is so very important. (Ask me how I know!)
4) Write down beforehand--preferably a couple days beforehand--exactly a) what you want as a result of the conversation, b) what you are going to ask for, c) what you are willing to compromise on. Be honest with yourself about what you truly need, and ask for 100% of what you need. Negotiate from there. Starting with 50% of what you need and negotiating down is likely to be ineffective.
5) Figure out your priorities in the situation. Is your priority a) self respect, b) maintaining the relationship, c) achieving an objective? Yes, they're all intertwined. If you have to pick only one, what will it be? Tailor what you are going to say--while still being honest with him and yourself--to achieve your priority.
6) And seriously, saying this as someone who has been in your shoes in many ways, have a friend physically present for afterwards. You may want to celebrate, you may want to cry, you may need to talk it out with someone else. Whatever happens, it's likely to be safest for you to have someone physically in the same room as you until your emotions--whatever they are--have calmed.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:57 PM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh my, 12 years is a very long time to have an on again-off again LDR. If things haven't progressed beyond the point where they are now in twelve years (sorry but you never mentioned any time in your relationship being blissful or even very good at all) then they aren't going to.
EVER.
I'm sorry but this is not something a "road map" is gonna fix. He's not even in the car.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:44 PM on May 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
EVER.
I'm sorry but this is not something a "road map" is gonna fix. He's not even in the car.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:44 PM on May 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
In 2011 a woman asked her relationship with her boyfriend, saying "there are a lot of problems with our relationship... most of the passion has died out... a lack of communication." You wrote then:
I do want to save it.
Why? You seriously don't sound happy. You have not written one positive thing about your boyfriend. This does not sound like a match made in heaven at all...
Go your separate ways... Save yourself from what seems like tremendous unhappiness.
You need to take your own advice and leave this man. As others have said, 16 (!) years of this is far, far too long.
posted by crazy with stars at 3:36 AM on May 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I do want to save it.
Why? You seriously don't sound happy. You have not written one positive thing about your boyfriend. This does not sound like a match made in heaven at all...
Go your separate ways... Save yourself from what seems like tremendous unhappiness.
You need to take your own advice and leave this man. As others have said, 16 (!) years of this is far, far too long.
posted by crazy with stars at 3:36 AM on May 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
but he's changed since he went back home
You haven't seen him in person for over half a year? For me, a big part of the feeling of emotional support from a partner is physical presence and having someone next to me. It sounds like he's not able to give you the support you need regardless of where he is. But maybe you should think about whether you might really want to date someone in the same city, especially given your need for more connection right now. You say your bf's distancing himself, but he's already literally at a distance. Regardless of the other problems with this relationship, is that something you want to continue indefinitely?
posted by three_red_balloons at 7:55 AM on May 7, 2015
You haven't seen him in person for over half a year? For me, a big part of the feeling of emotional support from a partner is physical presence and having someone next to me. It sounds like he's not able to give you the support you need regardless of where he is. But maybe you should think about whether you might really want to date someone in the same city, especially given your need for more connection right now. You say your bf's distancing himself, but he's already literally at a distance. Regardless of the other problems with this relationship, is that something you want to continue indefinitely?
posted by three_red_balloons at 7:55 AM on May 7, 2015
OTOH, if you would rather not leave him right now or make a big official proclamation to yourself that it's over because that would be One More God Damn Impossibly Hard Thing and this is seriously not a good time for ANY MORE THINGS, you don't have to do it now or think about doing it ever. Later for that. There is zero urgency about him. He's in a stable holding pattern of not-much-going-on for whatever reason--either because he's overwhelmed and can't figure out what to do, or because he's really checked out, as everyone has been saying, and unlikely to check himself back in. It doesn't matter. All that matters is that you get yourself the support you need that you've been asking for from him and not getting. Fine to keep things amicable with him while you go get support for yourself. Tip: no more thinking about him at night when you're supposed to be sleeping. Schedule obsession time for non-sleeping hours.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:00 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 6:00 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Don Pepino suggests a great strategy. If you're going to obsess over him, set a timer--10 minutes, say. Spend that ten minutes thinking about him as much as you like, and when it goes off, pack those thoughts into a box marked 'later' and put it on a metaphorical shelf. If you need to think about him again, do the same thing tomorrow.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:03 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:03 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
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"And if I dont ask how you are doing its cause I know. Seems pointless. You aren't doing good. and I already told you how I feel. Sometimes I dont feel like returning affection."
Here's what he just said: "I know you feel sad. I don't care that you feel sad. I don't want to give you affection."
That's... not a boyfriend, really. That's an acquaintance. An acquaintance who doesn't want to be bothered.
posted by MsMolly at 10:54 AM on May 6, 2015 [48 favorites]