Stucco Termite Dilemma
May 6, 2015 10:22 AM Subscribe
Exterior stucco on our new Toronto house is touching the ground in an area known to have termites = a big no-no according to our home inspector. Can you help with finding a solution?
My husband and I just bought a house in an area where termites are known to be active. It's considered a "significant renovation" in that the bungalow that used to be on the lot was torn down, parts of its foundations were kept, and a new two-story house was built on the same lot. Three of the exterior walls are covered in stucco that descends as far down as ground level.
According to our home inspector this is a very bad thing because termites can crawl behind the stucco, up the foundations and into the wooden framing without their tell-tale mud tunnels being seen. According to him, stucco is supposed to end at least 6 inches before the ground so that annual inspections can catch the bugs if they approach and easily find where they are coming in before major damage is done.
The inspector told us that we could hire a stucco company to cut back and refinish the stucco so that it ends where it needs to for about $3,000. Fair enough. Only problem is, we haven't been able to find anyone who can or is willing to do this in Toronto.
99% of masonry and stucco companies are telling us they won't do repairs or even touch stucco at all. The only company we've been able to get out (a masonry guy) told us that cutting back the stucco the requisite 6 inches would be impossible without it all falling down, and that he'd have to redo it all entirely at a cost of at least $10k.
My questions are this:
1) Does anyone know anything about this as an issue and can shed any light on the urgency and what would be the best way to approach it?
2) Does anyone have any recommendations as to companies in the Greater Toronto Area who we can have in to consult on the problem?
My husband and I just bought a house in an area where termites are known to be active. It's considered a "significant renovation" in that the bungalow that used to be on the lot was torn down, parts of its foundations were kept, and a new two-story house was built on the same lot. Three of the exterior walls are covered in stucco that descends as far down as ground level.
According to our home inspector this is a very bad thing because termites can crawl behind the stucco, up the foundations and into the wooden framing without their tell-tale mud tunnels being seen. According to him, stucco is supposed to end at least 6 inches before the ground so that annual inspections can catch the bugs if they approach and easily find where they are coming in before major damage is done.
The inspector told us that we could hire a stucco company to cut back and refinish the stucco so that it ends where it needs to for about $3,000. Fair enough. Only problem is, we haven't been able to find anyone who can or is willing to do this in Toronto.
99% of masonry and stucco companies are telling us they won't do repairs or even touch stucco at all. The only company we've been able to get out (a masonry guy) told us that cutting back the stucco the requisite 6 inches would be impossible without it all falling down, and that he'd have to redo it all entirely at a cost of at least $10k.
My questions are this:
1) Does anyone know anything about this as an issue and can shed any light on the urgency and what would be the best way to approach it?
2) Does anyone have any recommendations as to companies in the Greater Toronto Area who we can have in to consult on the problem?
Dig the ground down instead? It's only 6 inches.
posted by flimflam at 10:36 AM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by flimflam at 10:36 AM on May 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Dig the ground down instead? It's only 6 inches
I DO NOT recommend this. You absolutely need to keep positive drainage away from the exterior walls and it won't solve the problem without seriously re-grading around your entire house.
(Below is assuming that this is a typical 3-coat stucco system...so take it with a grain of salt if its not)
I can understand why a masonry or stucco company won't touch this. It goes beyond just cutting 6" of stucco. The stucco is attached typically with a scratch coat, mud coat, then finish coat (at least for traditional 3-coat systems). The scratch coat is directly applied to the house sheathing which is attached to the studs. If you cut the last 6" of stucco, you would be exposing the sheathing to weather and a ton of potential water damage and future problems.
A possible solution would be to cut approximately 8" of the bottom stucco and install a metal termite shield on top of the sheathing. Then cover the exposed termite shield with flexible flashing and cover with a trim board (a non-wood product like fiber cement or Trex.) and paint to match. This should prevent any significant amount of infestation.
posted by Benway at 11:34 AM on May 6, 2015
I DO NOT recommend this. You absolutely need to keep positive drainage away from the exterior walls and it won't solve the problem without seriously re-grading around your entire house.
(Below is assuming that this is a typical 3-coat stucco system...so take it with a grain of salt if its not)
I can understand why a masonry or stucco company won't touch this. It goes beyond just cutting 6" of stucco. The stucco is attached typically with a scratch coat, mud coat, then finish coat (at least for traditional 3-coat systems). The scratch coat is directly applied to the house sheathing which is attached to the studs. If you cut the last 6" of stucco, you would be exposing the sheathing to weather and a ton of potential water damage and future problems.
A possible solution would be to cut approximately 8" of the bottom stucco and install a metal termite shield on top of the sheathing. Then cover the exposed termite shield with flexible flashing and cover with a trim board (a non-wood product like fiber cement or Trex.) and paint to match. This should prevent any significant amount of infestation.
posted by Benway at 11:34 AM on May 6, 2015
Best answer: My knowledge on the subject is largely based on work in Southern California, which has obvious differences from Toronto, but even there, "patch-and-repair" stucco work was something we tried to avoid having to do, so there's some logic to contractors not wanting to mess with it. I can only imagine that stucco in general in Toronto is a more dicey proposition with freeze/thaw cycles (I now live in Wisconsin, and stucco just Is Not Done here). You generally don't want to get a clean cut line when removing stucco - instead, you kind of want to feather out the removal and reinstallation so that you have a chance to blend the new stucco into the old, and the new stuff can bond to the old surface. But it will still be a natural crack line and have potential to separate and flake off. So, stucco guys will probably have two issues with your project: 1) it's pretty small and maybe not worth their time 2) there's a high potential for failure/dissatisfied customers/lawsuits.
Dig the ground down instead? It's only 6 inches.
Eh, depending on the topography of the site, that may end up being a ton of work to make sure there's proper drainage away from the walls of the house. Could be worth looking into though.
The scratch coat is directly applied to the house sheathing which is attached to the studs. If you cut the last 6" of stucco, you would be exposing the sheathing to weather and a ton of potential water damage and future problems.
If the sheathing and framing are down that close to the ground, there's going to be termite/water problems anyway, and the stucco would do almost nothing to prevent water damage in the first place. The sill plate of the house framing would have to be at least 6" above grade to make the suggested fix, which is probably what your inspector is anticipating. Generally, stucco would be installed on lath over some kind of building wrap (tyvek, building paper, etc.) over the sheathing, with a weep screed at the bottom installed to hang a bit over the exposed concrete (note: the detail on the linked page is from SoCal, where 4" separation to soil is OK because snow doesn't happen).
posted by LionIndex at 12:16 PM on May 6, 2015
Dig the ground down instead? It's only 6 inches.
Eh, depending on the topography of the site, that may end up being a ton of work to make sure there's proper drainage away from the walls of the house. Could be worth looking into though.
The scratch coat is directly applied to the house sheathing which is attached to the studs. If you cut the last 6" of stucco, you would be exposing the sheathing to weather and a ton of potential water damage and future problems.
If the sheathing and framing are down that close to the ground, there's going to be termite/water problems anyway, and the stucco would do almost nothing to prevent water damage in the first place. The sill plate of the house framing would have to be at least 6" above grade to make the suggested fix, which is probably what your inspector is anticipating. Generally, stucco would be installed on lath over some kind of building wrap (tyvek, building paper, etc.) over the sheathing, with a weep screed at the bottom installed to hang a bit over the exposed concrete (note: the detail on the linked page is from SoCal, where 4" separation to soil is OK because snow doesn't happen).
posted by LionIndex at 12:16 PM on May 6, 2015
How about smaller "handyman" type operations rather than the big companies?
posted by kschang at 3:47 PM on May 6, 2015
posted by kschang at 3:47 PM on May 6, 2015
I can tell you that we have been looking for houses in a similarly termite prone area (supposedly 75% of local houses are attacked by termites during their lifetime). And every house we have had inspected has found a similar issue.
Every inspection report says, "the concrete slab should be exposed so that termite tunnels can be detected early. Currently the slab is [buried/covered by vegetation/touching decking/etc]." Or similar. Then they say it needs to be remedied.
At first we were really concerned about it, but now that we have seen it five times of the five times we've seen an inspection report, we've realised that there is just a disconnect between best practices and what is actually done. But it's possible Australians are more laissez faire than people where you are.
posted by lollusc at 4:30 PM on May 6, 2015
Every inspection report says, "the concrete slab should be exposed so that termite tunnels can be detected early. Currently the slab is [buried/covered by vegetation/touching decking/etc]." Or similar. Then they say it needs to be remedied.
At first we were really concerned about it, but now that we have seen it five times of the five times we've seen an inspection report, we've realised that there is just a disconnect between best practices and what is actually done. But it's possible Australians are more laissez faire than people where you are.
posted by lollusc at 4:30 PM on May 6, 2015
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posted by pipeski at 10:31 AM on May 6, 2015