What kind of acoustic foam should I buy for soundproofing?
April 29, 2015 5:39 PM Subscribe
My nephew is staying with us for the next few months and he is studying opera in school. Like most opera singers he has a HUGE voice. We'd like to make a small box in the corner of a room where he can stick his head in and practice without disturbing anyone.
The biggest problem we have is that the walls in our place are super thin. So thin that we are convinced some codes were violated while building the place. Just to give you an idea- When our neighbors turn on their faucets we can literally hear the water running out of the faucet. So we can also hear our neighbors phone conversations etc and they can hear ours. And that's NORMAL volume. You can imagine how it is when our nephew practices his singing. They say it sounds as if he's standing inside their own apartment. And we too would appreciate some more peace and quiet. He has a practice room in the city that he uses, but he has to pay hourly for it and he can't afford to use it every day.
I was looking up acoustic foam online to see if I could make a small tent made out of foam for him to practice in so that he can practice without us hearing it (if that's even possible). But there seems to be a ton of different types of foam and a lot of it seems to be geared towards keeping outside noise out rather than keeping inside noise from escaping. I would love some help in figuring out what kinds of foam and how much I need to make this happen.
The biggest problem we have is that the walls in our place are super thin. So thin that we are convinced some codes were violated while building the place. Just to give you an idea- When our neighbors turn on their faucets we can literally hear the water running out of the faucet. So we can also hear our neighbors phone conversations etc and they can hear ours. And that's NORMAL volume. You can imagine how it is when our nephew practices his singing. They say it sounds as if he's standing inside their own apartment. And we too would appreciate some more peace and quiet. He has a practice room in the city that he uses, but he has to pay hourly for it and he can't afford to use it every day.
I was looking up acoustic foam online to see if I could make a small tent made out of foam for him to practice in so that he can practice without us hearing it (if that's even possible). But there seems to be a ton of different types of foam and a lot of it seems to be geared towards keeping outside noise out rather than keeping inside noise from escaping. I would love some help in figuring out what kinds of foam and how much I need to make this happen.
Acoustic foam doesn't stop the transmission of sound, just the reflection (generalization, but mostly true). The only practical thing that will stop the transmission of sound is mass. Concrete blocks, drywall (lots of it), lead sheets. Any air gap at all will still allow the sound to leak out.
You need a cone of silence!
But seriously... and this will insult singers everywhere, but can he sing in the car?
posted by BillMcMurdo at 6:39 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
You need a cone of silence!
But seriously... and this will insult singers everywhere, but can he sing in the car?
posted by BillMcMurdo at 6:39 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
There do exist commercial products such as the WhisperRoom, which advertises "You Can’t Wake Family or Neighbors from Inside Our Practice Booths." (Scroll down a bit for a testimonial from an opera singer.) So it appears it is doable, though maybe not for cheap.
posted by bertran at 6:41 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bertran at 6:41 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is there a park near your home? Going out into a park to practice singing is probably the least offensive way I can think of, short of staying late at school to practice there.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 6:41 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 6:41 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I could make a small tent made out of foam for him to practice in so that he can practice without us hearing it (if that's even possible).
That is not possible.
Nthing everyone talking about mass is needed to isolate his voice from your apartment & neighbors, and also to note that sound is the movement of air molecules, so you also will need to prevent air moving from where his voice is to the rest of the world - i. e. you need something relatively airtight, which a box for just his head or a tent of foam will not be. (Yes, HVAC for recording studios and other places that need sonic isolation is a big expensive deal.)
I doubt your nephew will hit 150 db, since that's actually louder than a jet engine, but 100 - 125 db is entirely possible, and there's no way you can prevent your neighbors or yourselves from hearing that without doing major construction on the building. Or building something like the WhisperRoom, which is essentially building a heavy-duty isolated room within a room.
Acoustic foam alone will not cut it, far better to spend your money helping to pay for the cost of his practice space & transportation to and from.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:18 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
That is not possible.
Nthing everyone talking about mass is needed to isolate his voice from your apartment & neighbors, and also to note that sound is the movement of air molecules, so you also will need to prevent air moving from where his voice is to the rest of the world - i. e. you need something relatively airtight, which a box for just his head or a tent of foam will not be. (Yes, HVAC for recording studios and other places that need sonic isolation is a big expensive deal.)
I doubt your nephew will hit 150 db, since that's actually louder than a jet engine, but 100 - 125 db is entirely possible, and there's no way you can prevent your neighbors or yourselves from hearing that without doing major construction on the building. Or building something like the WhisperRoom, which is essentially building a heavy-duty isolated room within a room.
Acoustic foam alone will not cut it, far better to spend your money helping to pay for the cost of his practice space & transportation to and from.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:18 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
I would expect a school that offers a music program to have practice rooms available for students. That's the easiest solution.
Depending on where you are located, there may be musicians' rehearsal studios available for rent by the hour, which is another option.
Good luck.
posted by bunderful at 7:21 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Depending on where you are located, there may be musicians' rehearsal studios available for rent by the hour, which is another option.
Good luck.
posted by bunderful at 7:21 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Busking is a great way to practice, as well as earn tips. Look into the local laws about street performers in your area.
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:21 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:21 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
I asked a sound expert about this a few years ago (so I could scream into a microphone without disturbing anyone) and he suggested a double-buffered drywall enclosure. No idea if it'd actually work, but from the comments I'm guessing nope.
posted by ostranenie at 8:59 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by ostranenie at 8:59 PM on April 29, 2015
You could conceivably build a room-within-a-room with necessary soundproofing features, decoupled from the floor and not touching the walls. All in all, it's gonna take a lot more than some blankets.
posted by rhizome at 9:48 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 9:48 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's no conceivable way building/buying a meaningful in-home booth would cost less than months of that practice space rental (for the amount of time he can physically practice a day, which is luckily less than instrumentalists can!).
His school has no practice spaces for students?
posted by kalapierson at 11:46 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
His school has no practice spaces for students?
posted by kalapierson at 11:46 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does your building (or a shopping centre) have a carpark (or a lift) he could sing in at such a time it wasn't waking anyone up....just a pleasant sound?
posted by taff at 12:14 AM on April 30, 2015
posted by taff at 12:14 AM on April 30, 2015
He has a practice room in the city that he uses, but he has to pay hourly for it and he can't afford to use it every day.
He should look in to splitting a space with other singers, or bands of other people at his school.
This is what everyone i know does, and i know a BUNCH of musicians. They get 2-4 bands of 3-5 people each in one space, and it gets the rent down to the range of like $30-50 a person a month.
Smaller spaces are cheaper, and hourly spaces are generally a ripoff. He needs to find a monthly space he can split some kind of share of. And yea, it's normal to just split in on something like for a few months. Plans change and shit.
I do actually know of people making acoustically isolated rooms in multi-floor buildings where they needed to avoid this sort of issue. Either just for noise complaints, because they generally didn't want people knowing what was going on in there, or for improved acoustics in general. Usually all three. It's a black hole of money, and you're going to end up with something insane like a box hanging from the ceiling with an actual suspension and double/triple buffered walls with super overpriced foam on the inside and... A guy i know went on at length about setting one up, and all i could think the whole time was "holy fuck, that thing you just described is obviously SO EXPENSIVE"
Any solution you come up with will either be affordable and ineffective, or effective but so expensive that the cost of it would pay for a large amount of time at a shared practice space.
I'd also put singing like this in the same category as brass and drums. The one in which you just can't really do any of them in an apartment/shared space like this.
posted by emptythought at 3:56 AM on April 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
He should look in to splitting a space with other singers, or bands of other people at his school.
This is what everyone i know does, and i know a BUNCH of musicians. They get 2-4 bands of 3-5 people each in one space, and it gets the rent down to the range of like $30-50 a person a month.
Smaller spaces are cheaper, and hourly spaces are generally a ripoff. He needs to find a monthly space he can split some kind of share of. And yea, it's normal to just split in on something like for a few months. Plans change and shit.
I do actually know of people making acoustically isolated rooms in multi-floor buildings where they needed to avoid this sort of issue. Either just for noise complaints, because they generally didn't want people knowing what was going on in there, or for improved acoustics in general. Usually all three. It's a black hole of money, and you're going to end up with something insane like a box hanging from the ceiling with an actual suspension and double/triple buffered walls with super overpriced foam on the inside and... A guy i know went on at length about setting one up, and all i could think the whole time was "holy fuck, that thing you just described is obviously SO EXPENSIVE"
Any solution you come up with will either be affordable and ineffective, or effective but so expensive that the cost of it would pay for a large amount of time at a shared practice space.
I'd also put singing like this in the same category as brass and drums. The one in which you just can't really do any of them in an apartment/shared space like this.
posted by emptythought at 3:56 AM on April 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I live in an apartment building in LA which happens to have lots of musical folks, from a Tony-winning singer to an opera guy to an aspiring hip-hop producer. I don't know what materials they're using but some of them have built booths in their apartments. The Tony winner and opera singer sometimes sing in their car in the subterranean parking garage, usually faintly audible in my apt (right above garage). Hip hop guy has installed a recording booth (Wood and foam only, I think) but he's also right next to me, so it takes it from being OMG too loud to a tolerable faint singing, words can still be made out.
posted by JauntyFedora at 1:20 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by JauntyFedora at 1:20 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. It seems there's just no way of doing this the way I wanted to, so now I'm thinking he needs to just stick to his practice rooms. But maybe he can practice some of his less loud vocal and breathing exercises at home if I just put up some eggshell or wedge foam (I don't really know the difference) in the corner. He does some weird types of vocal exercises that aren't that loud, but still make noise. Like there's something he calls a "vocal fry" which sounds like a door creaking over and over again. and another one where it sounds like he's hissing loudly and one that sounds like he's about to have a baby and doing Lamaze. But any actual singing he'll have to do in one of his practice rooms.
posted by rancher at 3:48 PM on April 30, 2015
posted by rancher at 3:48 PM on April 30, 2015
Opera singer here. The hissing and Lamaze-type exercises are breathing exercises, and the vocal fry is to engage the chest-voice and clear gunk off the vocal cords so they meet cleanly.
It is very generous of you to let your nephew stay with you for a while. I'm sorry about the thin walls in your building, and about the disturbance to you and your neighbours. Speaking as a singer, though, your nephew needs to sing as much as your neighbours need quiet.
Not only is this his life's work; his preparation now will directly affect how the coming academic year goes for him, and thus his future career prospects. Music school-- like the music profession in general-- is intensely competitive. He's already had to compete with thousands of singers just to get onto the course; now he needs to be able to make the most of the opportunity he has. He will constantly be competing against other singers in his class and being judged against them; he will constantly be thrown new repertoire, all of which requires preparation, and be judged on how he performs it by teachers who may be his future employers or colleagues. A bad impression on them, once made, can be very hard to overcome. He sounds like he has the motivation necessary to succeed-- but not if he can't put the hours in.
As a student of opera, he will have a lot of music to memorise-- and again, the stakes are high and this is not optional. Memorisation need not involve singing full voice, or constantly-- usually just a phrase or two at a time-- but it does take *many* hours, as any study does.
Can you and the neighbours agree on times and hours when your nephew can do the work he needs to do? Can they let him know times when they're out of the house or days when they'll be away? Perhaps you, he and they could work together to find a solution. ("No singing in the apartment" is not a solution.)
The only other thought I had is: does he have a church job? If not, do you know of any churches in town with a paid choir? If he can find a church job for the months he's with you, he might be able to use the church, or a room at the church, to do some practice at times. Even if the church can't pay him, maybe they'd exchange practice space for his voice in the choir.
To address some earlier suggestions: Warming up involves making some weird noises, and doing it in public is a complete non-starter. Busking is more like performance than practice, and a park is probably a bad idea if it's in a city; in a best case scenario idiots come up and interrupt you and break your concentration, and in the worst case his voice could attract muggers.
For better or for worse, your nephew's life and work involve him making sound. If you, he and the neighbours can find a way for him to do some of his singing at home, that would be the humane thing to do. I hope the summer goes well for all of you.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:24 PM on April 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
It is very generous of you to let your nephew stay with you for a while. I'm sorry about the thin walls in your building, and about the disturbance to you and your neighbours. Speaking as a singer, though, your nephew needs to sing as much as your neighbours need quiet.
Not only is this his life's work; his preparation now will directly affect how the coming academic year goes for him, and thus his future career prospects. Music school-- like the music profession in general-- is intensely competitive. He's already had to compete with thousands of singers just to get onto the course; now he needs to be able to make the most of the opportunity he has. He will constantly be competing against other singers in his class and being judged against them; he will constantly be thrown new repertoire, all of which requires preparation, and be judged on how he performs it by teachers who may be his future employers or colleagues. A bad impression on them, once made, can be very hard to overcome. He sounds like he has the motivation necessary to succeed-- but not if he can't put the hours in.
As a student of opera, he will have a lot of music to memorise-- and again, the stakes are high and this is not optional. Memorisation need not involve singing full voice, or constantly-- usually just a phrase or two at a time-- but it does take *many* hours, as any study does.
Can you and the neighbours agree on times and hours when your nephew can do the work he needs to do? Can they let him know times when they're out of the house or days when they'll be away? Perhaps you, he and they could work together to find a solution. ("No singing in the apartment" is not a solution.)
The only other thought I had is: does he have a church job? If not, do you know of any churches in town with a paid choir? If he can find a church job for the months he's with you, he might be able to use the church, or a room at the church, to do some practice at times. Even if the church can't pay him, maybe they'd exchange practice space for his voice in the choir.
To address some earlier suggestions: Warming up involves making some weird noises, and doing it in public is a complete non-starter. Busking is more like performance than practice, and a park is probably a bad idea if it's in a city; in a best case scenario idiots come up and interrupt you and break your concentration, and in the worst case his voice could attract muggers.
For better or for worse, your nephew's life and work involve him making sound. If you, he and the neighbours can find a way for him to do some of his singing at home, that would be the humane thing to do. I hope the summer goes well for all of you.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:24 PM on April 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
It isn't. I'm sorry, but your goal cannot be achieved. We're potentially talking about 150 decibels. There are no walls or sound proofing system that will dampen that. The best you are going to do is agree times with your neighbours when he can practice, like between noon and 4 pm or something, or find him more, alternative practice spaces.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:22 PM on April 29, 2015 [7 favorites]