But I don't want to give you anything
April 28, 2015 2:50 AM Subscribe
My side of the family is poor, my spouse's family isn't. I made the mistake of helping a couple of members of my family out in times of need. Now they're coming out of the woodwork, and I'm disinclined to help anyone else. What should I do?
This year hasn't been kind to my immediate family, several car accidents, an unplanned pregnancy, and two job layoffs. I come from poor stock, so I'm not normally in a position to help out when things like this happen. However I've recently married, And with the spouse's income I'm suddenly in a position where I can offer a helping hand, with my spouse's approval of course. My spouse makes more than I do, and we're both okay with that. And my spouse has a warm, caring heart and honestly wants to help. I mean, that's what family is for. Right?
Having said that, I was hesitant to help the first time one of my kids asked me for money because I knew it would trickle through the ranks, and everyone and their uncle would be standing in front of me with their hands out. That's pretty much what happened. I gave one of my kids some money when they were in a bind. Then one of my sibling's kids needed money and I offered to help. They both set up "fund me" accounts which we (the spouse and I) contributed to, so I didn't give them everything they needed, just helped as much as I could.
I never lend money to friends and family because it leads to fights and hurt feelings. I only give what I can spare. Everyone who knows me knows that. Anyway, another family member was hit with an unexpected emergency, and I offered to buy them something they needed through their Amazon wish list to help them out. And so it began... Now it's coming from all sides. I have a sibling and another one of her children heavily hinting that they are in dire need of things that I know they don't need. Also, this sibling hasn't said much more than, "boo!" to me in seven years, and the kid is pretty much the same. I hardly speak to either of them.
My spouse and I aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but we're much better off than anyone on my side of the family. I haven't advertised to anyone that we have anything in the way of money other than helping out where I have. I learned a long time ago to hide any extra from my family because they will find a way to get their paws on it. But I guess that contributing to the fund me campaigns was enough, because three more fund me campaigns have gone up in the last week, and I keep getting reminders that they are there (and there's nothing in them). Right now, I'm just ignoring my sibling and the other kid. I know that if I help them it'll be a slippery slope because they and the rest of my family will just keep on asking until the well runs dry.
Also, I am a little concerned because my sibling has difficulties with depression and if their fund me remains a zero balance that may trigger their depression. They've been hospitalized before for less. But I am not my sibling's keeper, and they didn't need to set up a fund me account in the first place, especially for the frivolous purpose that they did. And there's no way I can reach the goal they set by myself, so contributing a small amount probably wouldn't help. See? It's a slippery slope.
But my question is, should I just keep ignoring their heavy hints and risk hurt feelings? I can hear it now, "You helped so-and-so. Why aren't you helping me?" It'll cause a rift in the family. I know it. Or should I lie and say I don't have anything to spare? That may come back to bite me. Or, is there a way to honestly say, "I don't want to help you." without causing hurt feelings? Because I honestly don't feel a whole lot of obligation to help them out since they've made little effort to be a part of my life other than to friend me on Facebook, but I feel this familial obligation to help because... They're family, and that's what family is for, right?
This year hasn't been kind to my immediate family, several car accidents, an unplanned pregnancy, and two job layoffs. I come from poor stock, so I'm not normally in a position to help out when things like this happen. However I've recently married, And with the spouse's income I'm suddenly in a position where I can offer a helping hand, with my spouse's approval of course. My spouse makes more than I do, and we're both okay with that. And my spouse has a warm, caring heart and honestly wants to help. I mean, that's what family is for. Right?
Having said that, I was hesitant to help the first time one of my kids asked me for money because I knew it would trickle through the ranks, and everyone and their uncle would be standing in front of me with their hands out. That's pretty much what happened. I gave one of my kids some money when they were in a bind. Then one of my sibling's kids needed money and I offered to help. They both set up "fund me" accounts which we (the spouse and I) contributed to, so I didn't give them everything they needed, just helped as much as I could.
I never lend money to friends and family because it leads to fights and hurt feelings. I only give what I can spare. Everyone who knows me knows that. Anyway, another family member was hit with an unexpected emergency, and I offered to buy them something they needed through their Amazon wish list to help them out. And so it began... Now it's coming from all sides. I have a sibling and another one of her children heavily hinting that they are in dire need of things that I know they don't need. Also, this sibling hasn't said much more than, "boo!" to me in seven years, and the kid is pretty much the same. I hardly speak to either of them.
My spouse and I aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but we're much better off than anyone on my side of the family. I haven't advertised to anyone that we have anything in the way of money other than helping out where I have. I learned a long time ago to hide any extra from my family because they will find a way to get their paws on it. But I guess that contributing to the fund me campaigns was enough, because three more fund me campaigns have gone up in the last week, and I keep getting reminders that they are there (and there's nothing in them). Right now, I'm just ignoring my sibling and the other kid. I know that if I help them it'll be a slippery slope because they and the rest of my family will just keep on asking until the well runs dry.
Also, I am a little concerned because my sibling has difficulties with depression and if their fund me remains a zero balance that may trigger their depression. They've been hospitalized before for less. But I am not my sibling's keeper, and they didn't need to set up a fund me account in the first place, especially for the frivolous purpose that they did. And there's no way I can reach the goal they set by myself, so contributing a small amount probably wouldn't help. See? It's a slippery slope.
But my question is, should I just keep ignoring their heavy hints and risk hurt feelings? I can hear it now, "You helped so-and-so. Why aren't you helping me?" It'll cause a rift in the family. I know it. Or should I lie and say I don't have anything to spare? That may come back to bite me. Or, is there a way to honestly say, "I don't want to help you." without causing hurt feelings? Because I honestly don't feel a whole lot of obligation to help them out since they've made little effort to be a part of my life other than to friend me on Facebook, but I feel this familial obligation to help because... They're family, and that's what family is for, right?
Honestly, just say no.... you don't owe anyone any explanations, and the feelings of people who are trying to mooch off of you aren't your responsibility. Just stick with a simple "No, that won't be possible", repeated over and over as often as it takes to get through to them.
posted by easily confused at 3:18 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 3:18 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Is there a way of laughing off their frivolous request? I mean, they're comparing say, their desire for a red pair of Manolos high heels to their other family member losing their job and being out in the street. The two are not the same. One is a want, and the other is a dire need. You are not obliged to help either but I assume there was desperate need for the person you did help.
You don't have to justify your decision for those you help but if this person ever calls you on it and ask why you didn't fund their fancy pair of shoes or whatever it was, I would treat it like a joke request and say, "Oh, (relative) if only I could help everyone who wanted designer heels, heck, I wish I could afford them myself! Good luck with that, and I look forward to seeing them on you when you save up enough and buy them, how great will that feel?!"
That way you've gracefully put them in their place. They know where they stand and they also know you're not an ATM for whatever their heart desires.
posted by Jubey at 3:20 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
You don't have to justify your decision for those you help but if this person ever calls you on it and ask why you didn't fund their fancy pair of shoes or whatever it was, I would treat it like a joke request and say, "Oh, (relative) if only I could help everyone who wanted designer heels, heck, I wish I could afford them myself! Good luck with that, and I look forward to seeing them on you when you save up enough and buy them, how great will that feel?!"
That way you've gracefully put them in their place. They know where they stand and they also know you're not an ATM for whatever their heart desires.
posted by Jubey at 3:20 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
"Heavy hinting" is another term for "manipulating and pressuring to get what you want." At the very least feel completely free to ignore that shit: if someone can't even be bothered to make the effort and show the humility to personally ask for whatever it is they want you sure as hell are not obligated to respond in the slightest.
Keep in mind that if this is the way that one or both of your parents, or another relative, treated you growing up—leveraging their position as the adult to ensure that they never had to say please, and letting it be assumed that they would just get whatever they wanted—then you've literally been trained since childhood to respond to this sort of manipulation.
And even if someone does actually ask, that's not some sort of huge concession or gift to you that you owe them money in return for. "I don't want to give you money" is not only a perfectly reasonable response but if they consider it some kind of offense it's their goddamn problem. IMO treating a family member as a mere source of money is the offense.
posted by XMLicious at 3:23 AM on April 28, 2015 [24 favorites]
Keep in mind that if this is the way that one or both of your parents, or another relative, treated you growing up—leveraging their position as the adult to ensure that they never had to say please, and letting it be assumed that they would just get whatever they wanted—then you've literally been trained since childhood to respond to this sort of manipulation.
And even if someone does actually ask, that's not some sort of huge concession or gift to you that you owe them money in return for. "I don't want to give you money" is not only a perfectly reasonable response but if they consider it some kind of offense it's their goddamn problem. IMO treating a family member as a mere source of money is the offense.
posted by XMLicious at 3:23 AM on April 28, 2015 [24 favorites]
"We just don't have the budget for it"
posted by catspajammies at 4:12 AM on April 28, 2015 [24 favorites]
posted by catspajammies at 4:12 AM on April 28, 2015 [24 favorites]
This doesn't directly address how to say no, but it might make sense for you and your spouse to come up with a yearly budget for gifts to your family. This will keep you from having to think as much about how much money you have to spare each time someone asks and may reduce tension between you and your husband in the future.
posted by metasarah at 4:41 AM on April 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 4:41 AM on April 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
Judith "Miss Manners" Martin has a useful all-purpose phrase: "I'm sorry, that won't be possible." I like catspajamas' line, too.
You aren't wrong for setting boundaries and sticking to them, and are to be commended for your generosity.
posted by Gelatin at 4:49 AM on April 28, 2015 [10 favorites]
You aren't wrong for setting boundaries and sticking to them, and are to be commended for your generosity.
posted by Gelatin at 4:49 AM on April 28, 2015 [10 favorites]
Agree 100% with the recommendation of a standard line. It's a lot easier to say no, and relent on very specific cases, and only if you want, than it is to get caught unawares and give because you don't have a formula to turn someone down.
posted by theorique at 4:51 AM on April 28, 2015
posted by theorique at 4:51 AM on April 28, 2015
Helping your own kids with anything you can is a solemn obligation. It's not in the same category as the rest of this litany of imprecations. When asked just say you are tapped out at the moment and offer to bake a cake. For their fund raiser.
posted by spitbull at 5:23 AM on April 28, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 5:23 AM on April 28, 2015 [15 favorites]
Also, maybe make a list for yourself - mentally or on paper - of the situations you consider dire enough to help out with. Obviously with your kids it's a bit different, but if you can say to yourself "I will give people money for [X type of medical emergency] or for [X type of housing emergency" it may make things easier to say no at other times.
And in the future, can you give money to your kids via check or bank transfer rather than by Go-Fund-Me, and make sure that they know that financial matters are private? If they want to set up an additional Go-Fund-Me, surely it can read "I have $700 towards treating my impacted wisdom teeth and I need another $700" rather than starting from zero?
posted by Frowner at 5:25 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
And in the future, can you give money to your kids via check or bank transfer rather than by Go-Fund-Me, and make sure that they know that financial matters are private? If they want to set up an additional Go-Fund-Me, surely it can read "I have $700 towards treating my impacted wisdom teeth and I need another $700" rather than starting from zero?
posted by Frowner at 5:25 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
It is okay to help your children. Continue to do so. Do not ever send money to a go fund me or any other type thing. My grandmother was a secret giver. She was suspected of sneaking cash into people's shoes that were sitting outside the door. She always remembered what people's favorite foods were and she cooked for them when they were low. My point is, don't give publically, except for your children, ever again. Stealth to keep wealth and all of that. Incidentally, my grandmother was poor and still gave.
posted by myselfasme at 5:29 AM on April 28, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by myselfasme at 5:29 AM on April 28, 2015 [11 favorites]
I got into a similar situation when we adopted our daughter through foster care. We oversaw the visits with my daughter's mother and then we had an open adoption. So, we got to know her mom and her family. The family, as with most families with children in foster care, is very poor. We gave them some money in an emergency and it went downhill from there.
Here are some pieces of advice from the front lines:
1. I find that being asked for money is stressful whether I give it or not, so rather than finding a way to cope with being asked I looked for a way to shut down the requests.
2. After a time (too long a time!) I started to think about the pigeons pecking for pellets in those old films from psychology class. I realized that each time I gave someone money I was giving out a pellet which, rather than stopping the requests, increased them. To extinguish the behavior you have to stop rewarding it.
3. The need is insatiable. No amount of money can fix it or make it stop. Once you start the flow of money it will never end.
4. I didn't say things like "that won't be possible" or "I can't afford it" because those things weren't true and I didn't like lying to get out of it.
5. In the end, I told them, one by one, that they needed to stop asking me for money. "But you can always say no" they said, and I told them it was stressful to be asked in the first place and that they needed to stop asking me.
6. Of course, they asked. I said, "stop asking me for money." That's all I said. Eventually they stopped asking.
7. "I don't want to talk about it." is a good response to "Why won't you give me money."
8. They will be mad. There's no way to set these boundaries without people being mad.
9. Very occasionally when there is a true crisis I will do something to help. I do this ONLY when I feel like it and ONLY if I haven't been asked.
10. When I do help I never, ever, ever give cash. I will buy a specific item or give a gift card to a grocery store or pay a car bill. Cash is the ultra pellet and will start the requests back up. Again, I will do this only if I'm not asked. As long as I never give cash this approach does not create pellet requests.
11. It has been hard. This is my daughter's family and they are important to me and I care about them. I want to fix things, I want to make it better, but I poured massive amounts of money into the situation and NOTHING GOT BETTER. There was always another crisis. They live on crises.
12. I don't know your families situation, but one thing I've done is ask for something in return for my help. I have offered all of my daughter's family members $500 (!!!!!) if they will get a GED. Not one of them has taken me up on it and it's been seven years.
13. You are not financially responsible for your family. It is not your job to fix their problems. You do not need to give money to a go fund me so someone won't get depressed. If you're worried about depression and want to help, think of non-financial things to do.
14. I cannot tell you how important it is to shut this shit down. I was so naive and it took me years.
15. Good luck :)
posted by orsonet at 5:38 AM on April 28, 2015 [73 favorites]
Here are some pieces of advice from the front lines:
1. I find that being asked for money is stressful whether I give it or not, so rather than finding a way to cope with being asked I looked for a way to shut down the requests.
2. After a time (too long a time!) I started to think about the pigeons pecking for pellets in those old films from psychology class. I realized that each time I gave someone money I was giving out a pellet which, rather than stopping the requests, increased them. To extinguish the behavior you have to stop rewarding it.
3. The need is insatiable. No amount of money can fix it or make it stop. Once you start the flow of money it will never end.
4. I didn't say things like "that won't be possible" or "I can't afford it" because those things weren't true and I didn't like lying to get out of it.
5. In the end, I told them, one by one, that they needed to stop asking me for money. "But you can always say no" they said, and I told them it was stressful to be asked in the first place and that they needed to stop asking me.
6. Of course, they asked. I said, "stop asking me for money." That's all I said. Eventually they stopped asking.
7. "I don't want to talk about it." is a good response to "Why won't you give me money."
8. They will be mad. There's no way to set these boundaries without people being mad.
9. Very occasionally when there is a true crisis I will do something to help. I do this ONLY when I feel like it and ONLY if I haven't been asked.
10. When I do help I never, ever, ever give cash. I will buy a specific item or give a gift card to a grocery store or pay a car bill. Cash is the ultra pellet and will start the requests back up. Again, I will do this only if I'm not asked. As long as I never give cash this approach does not create pellet requests.
11. It has been hard. This is my daughter's family and they are important to me and I care about them. I want to fix things, I want to make it better, but I poured massive amounts of money into the situation and NOTHING GOT BETTER. There was always another crisis. They live on crises.
12. I don't know your families situation, but one thing I've done is ask for something in return for my help. I have offered all of my daughter's family members $500 (!!!!!) if they will get a GED. Not one of them has taken me up on it and it's been seven years.
13. You are not financially responsible for your family. It is not your job to fix their problems. You do not need to give money to a go fund me so someone won't get depressed. If you're worried about depression and want to help, think of non-financial things to do.
14. I cannot tell you how important it is to shut this shit down. I was so naive and it took me years.
15. Good luck :)
posted by orsonet at 5:38 AM on April 28, 2015 [73 favorites]
I really like the suggestion for, "We just don't have the budget for it." Because it's true... you only have the budget for what you believe are true needs and emergencies that are "what family is for." That is, only for ways in which you really want to give, be that money, time, or other support. There is no line in your budget that says "manipulative sibling's greed."
If they keep pushing, move on to Miss Manners, "Sorry, that won't be possible."
posted by zennie at 5:41 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
If they keep pushing, move on to Miss Manners, "Sorry, that won't be possible."
posted by zennie at 5:41 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
A financial planner I saw said that she often directs and helps people to say no to family members wanting money. Maybe you should see one? There have been a spate of articles recently about people with various degrees of wealth facing dilemmas about how much help to offer their children and still save for retirement. (And note that, as has been pointed out already, we're talking your own children, not extended family. That is a whole different ball park and one you should really not have to even consider.)
posted by BibiRose at 6:09 AM on April 28, 2015
posted by BibiRose at 6:09 AM on April 28, 2015
Something else that may help (depending on your finances) - is your retirement fully funded? Do you have the recommended amount of money in a savings account (3-6 months) in case something happens?
I generally have a little to spare as well, so it's hard on me to turn my family's requests for money down. (Plus, I tend to think - is me going out to dinner/buying this thing on Amazon/going on a vacation more important that helping x relative with y?) But unless you've paid off all your debt and fully funded your retirement, you're actually taking away from those things to lend this money out.
posted by needlegrrl at 6:27 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I generally have a little to spare as well, so it's hard on me to turn my family's requests for money down. (Plus, I tend to think - is me going out to dinner/buying this thing on Amazon/going on a vacation more important that helping x relative with y?) But unless you've paid off all your debt and fully funded your retirement, you're actually taking away from those things to lend this money out.
posted by needlegrrl at 6:27 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I've experienced something similar fairly recently. My approach was to offer to pay for professional financial counseling, so that the counselor could work out a realistic budget and set the asker on the path to financial independence. The asker refused on the grounds that "the counselor would not tell me anything I don't already know". I would have sincerely preferred that they took me up on my offer (it's someone I used to be close with) but even with this negative outcome, I was happy that I offered because it made me feel better about not giving the money directly (which would have been to pay off frivolous debt due to over-spending).
That's the approach I would take with your askers. Money is of no use to someone who lacks access to knowledge or doesn't have basic financial hygiene. What can you give them that will address the underlying problem? It can be financial counseling to create a budget, or legal counseling to discharge debt through bankruptcy, or schooling to acquire a trade, or helping them get government aid to buy groceries. You will still spend some money but at least you won't feel like it's throwing (your) good money after (their) bad money, and if/when they decline, at least you won't look like you refused to help.
posted by rada at 6:47 AM on April 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
That's the approach I would take with your askers. Money is of no use to someone who lacks access to knowledge or doesn't have basic financial hygiene. What can you give them that will address the underlying problem? It can be financial counseling to create a budget, or legal counseling to discharge debt through bankruptcy, or schooling to acquire a trade, or helping them get government aid to buy groceries. You will still spend some money but at least you won't feel like it's throwing (your) good money after (their) bad money, and if/when they decline, at least you won't look like you refused to help.
posted by rada at 6:47 AM on April 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
Excuses that may work with these people:
1. You had some money, then you gave it away. Now there is none.
2. You have big expense x now.
3. Your husband says no.
I don't think a white lie is unethical AT ALL in this situation. Rude people don't appreciate manners, so you have to meet them where they are to get them off your back, IME.
posted by quincunx at 6:57 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
1. You had some money, then you gave it away. Now there is none.
2. You have big expense x now.
3. Your husband says no.
I don't think a white lie is unethical AT ALL in this situation. Rude people don't appreciate manners, so you have to meet them where they are to get them off your back, IME.
posted by quincunx at 6:57 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I like the line of "I'm so sorry, that's not in our budget right now." Because, your budget is whatever you say it is -- you're not saying "there is literally $0 in our account right now" (which I agree I would be uncomfortable lying about).
However, I would only pull this type of line (or something like "That's unfortunately not possible right now" - so great!) if/when directly asked. If people are just hinting to you, smile and change the topic.
I would also set up your spam filter to direct everything from GoFundMe to spam. If you use Gmail, you can either set up a specific filter or just keep hitting the "spam" button when these things arrive and eventually Gmail will learn. I'm sure other email programs have a similar feature. If people want to ask you DIRECTLY and in person (or even in an individualized email), you can deal with that then with one of the scripts above. But if this is just a mass email directed to who knows how many people? Just ignore it! If people want to make a real connection, they can reach out in a more personal manner.
Finally, please know that nothing you do is causing a family member's depression. You cannot cause or fix a mental illness with money, no matter how much you love a person or how much you help a person.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:17 AM on April 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
However, I would only pull this type of line (or something like "That's unfortunately not possible right now" - so great!) if/when directly asked. If people are just hinting to you, smile and change the topic.
I would also set up your spam filter to direct everything from GoFundMe to spam. If you use Gmail, you can either set up a specific filter or just keep hitting the "spam" button when these things arrive and eventually Gmail will learn. I'm sure other email programs have a similar feature. If people want to ask you DIRECTLY and in person (or even in an individualized email), you can deal with that then with one of the scripts above. But if this is just a mass email directed to who knows how many people? Just ignore it! If people want to make a real connection, they can reach out in a more personal manner.
Finally, please know that nothing you do is causing a family member's depression. You cannot cause or fix a mental illness with money, no matter how much you love a person or how much you help a person.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:17 AM on April 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
Fund Me campaigns? I know it's 2015 but that is so... gross. Can you just email filter that to spam? Because a public "hey gimme money" grab IS the definition of spam. Yuck. This is very different from a family member getting in touch with you and saying one-on-one that they're in a financial bind.
You don't even have to respond to these mass requests for money. Your spam filter got rid of it for you. Ignore it and pretend you never saw it. How tacky. Any emotional response someone has to not being given money for their GoFundMe request is outrageous and not worth your mental energy.
Sorry you're going through this. What a pain.
posted by sockermom at 8:15 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
You don't even have to respond to these mass requests for money. Your spam filter got rid of it for you. Ignore it and pretend you never saw it. How tacky. Any emotional response someone has to not being given money for their GoFundMe request is outrageous and not worth your mental energy.
Sorry you're going through this. What a pain.
posted by sockermom at 8:15 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, your point about what family is for is interesting. Family is built in support - for everyone. Not just some. What do these people do for you? Seriously - not that relationships are tit-for-tat, but give and take is necessary. Otherwise it's not a relationship - there's no relation, no back and forth.
Family can be amazing or it can be a burden or it can be a little of both. Turning your back on family feels bad. I understand. But family implies togetherness. It implies solidarity among members. You are not being treated like family here. It is not your job to help people who do not give anything back to you. It is OK to say no to people who treat you the way your family is treating you, blood be damned.
posted by sockermom at 8:19 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Family can be amazing or it can be a burden or it can be a little of both. Turning your back on family feels bad. I understand. But family implies togetherness. It implies solidarity among members. You are not being treated like family here. It is not your job to help people who do not give anything back to you. It is OK to say no to people who treat you the way your family is treating you, blood be damned.
posted by sockermom at 8:19 AM on April 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
The only leverage they have over you is getting mad.
Stop caring if they're mad.
It makes the no very, very easy.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:36 AM on April 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
Stop caring if they're mad.
It makes the no very, very easy.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:36 AM on April 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
I mean, that's what family is for. Right? .....
It'll cause a rift in the family. I know it. .....
I feel this familial obligation to help because... They're family, and that's what family is for, right?
I think the only thing keeping you from laying down your boundaries is this mistaken idea that what family does is give you what you want. If your family is healthy and strong and loving, then your family helps support you as you work toward what you need. Sometimes they give you what you need in the form of toughlove and come-to-jesus talks. But they don't ignore each other for years at a time until they smell money.
Say no, continue to work hard, go on a vacation with your new spouse. Your ask.meta-family supports your decision. Because that's what families do.
posted by headnsouth at 8:38 AM on April 28, 2015 [10 favorites]
It'll cause a rift in the family. I know it. .....
I feel this familial obligation to help because... They're family, and that's what family is for, right?
I think the only thing keeping you from laying down your boundaries is this mistaken idea that what family does is give you what you want. If your family is healthy and strong and loving, then your family helps support you as you work toward what you need. Sometimes they give you what you need in the form of toughlove and come-to-jesus talks. But they don't ignore each other for years at a time until they smell money.
Say no, continue to work hard, go on a vacation with your new spouse. Your ask.meta-family supports your decision. Because that's what families do.
posted by headnsouth at 8:38 AM on April 28, 2015 [10 favorites]
I thank the Lord that I don't have family members who do this to me, but my boyfriend occasionally gets requests from his (older, higher-earning) brother for money. He helped him out a couple of times but after the brother filed for bankruptcy, got most of his debt erased, and AGAIN asked for money, he started telling him, "I'm sorry, but my money's all tied up right now." It's not a total lie like him saying he doesn't have it, and it leaves him open to help out again in case a real emergency arises, but it does tend to shut down the discussion quickly.
posted by jabes at 8:54 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by jabes at 8:54 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
My husband and I have a mutual agreement that in these circumstances, we can both say 'I'm sorry, I would need to talk to my spouse about something like that." With an added side of, "And I think, under the circumstances, he would probably say no, because 'your actual thought'"
posted by corb at 9:19 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:19 AM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is a thing that happens and it happened to my spouse and me; spouse's relatives seemed to think that after we moved to L.A. for a job, that equated with us being rich. Farthest thing from the truth; those five years in L.A. were one of the toughest times, financially; we had nothing to spare. Spouse's siblings would hit us up for money frequently but the corker came when one of spouse's parents, who had religious issues with all eight of spouses's self and siblings, asked to move in with us (plus, "send money plz."). Spouse said, "Sure, parent, we can move you in with us, but there will be no discussion of religion in my house, because my house - my rules." Spouse's parent said they couldn't abide by that and at that point, we went no contact. Besides the badmouthing that ensued among some of spouse's sibs and needy parent, it was relatively peaceful after that.
posted by Lynsey at 9:53 AM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Lynsey at 9:53 AM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Having said that, I was hesitant to help the first time one of my kids asked me for money because I knew it would trickle through the ranks,
Your kids are not "family" in the same way your cousins or whatever are; they are your children. You really need to distinguish between the two, mentally and financially.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:08 PM on April 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
Your kids are not "family" in the same way your cousins or whatever are; they are your children. You really need to distinguish between the two, mentally and financially.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:08 PM on April 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
Or, is there a way to honestly say, "I don't want to help you." without causing hurt feelings?
No, there's not a way to say that without causing hurt feelings. But you should say it anyway. Because any other excuses or justifications will just make the person you say no to argue with you. Be honest and there will be hurt feelings, but you'll shut this down and it won't happen so much in the future.
posted by medusa at 4:23 PM on April 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
No, there's not a way to say that without causing hurt feelings. But you should say it anyway. Because any other excuses or justifications will just make the person you say no to argue with you. Be honest and there will be hurt feelings, but you'll shut this down and it won't happen so much in the future.
posted by medusa at 4:23 PM on April 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is there any way you can get away with saying "Sorry, I blew all of our extra funds on the other family members and now I'm back to being broke again" or "Sorry, my spouse's hours got cut back at work and we're broke again" or "Sorry, all our money just went to a health crisis" or some other thing like that? Because in my experience, the only thing that stops the asking for money is going back to looking like you don't have any. And saying "I'm broke too!" goes over a lot nicer than "Nope, I'm tired of handing out money" does, plus actually gets people to stop asking. It's really none of their business what you do with your money, but once they started thinking you had plenty to share, they're now considering it theirs, and broke families tend to consider it all communal money from what I've seen. How would they figure out you're lying about how much you have, anyway?
"I learned a long time ago to hide any extra from my family because they will find a way to get their paws on it. "
Stick to it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:53 PM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
"I learned a long time ago to hide any extra from my family because they will find a way to get their paws on it. "
Stick to it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:53 PM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've been asked by family and complied, by employees and complied, by the occasional stranger and complied, by friends and complied. Kids in the hood doing fundraising come to me first. I fear kids, so I comply ! (In fact, of all of these, the kids are the best part. They are doing something hard to do... sell and solicit, and ask for what they want, so my donations are really rewards for them doing something scary.)
In my case, the family stuff had to come to an end. I was "the bank" for a decade. Still surprised at some of the crap. I finally drew the line when my father died. The modest amount we kids all received was enough to materially affect my mother's financial situation if pooled and invested in a lifetime annuity, but I could not get them all on board, so I told them I was no longer the bank in that case. Inside a few months, someone was there with a hand extended and I just flat out reminded them what I said and that was it. Big blowup, but I haven't made a loan or gift since.
In every case where a loan was involved, it was not repaid. I responded by giving gifts. Even that changes a relationship for the worst, so the last time a friend asked for money, I had to tell him as politely as I could "X, I am really sorry you are having a hard time with this. I value our relationship so much that I don't want to change it. Money screws things up. If there's any other way for you to do this, it would be better than putting us in this situation. I am afraid I just can't, but I sure hope you can get this problem solved. It sounds horrible."
I think it's perfectly fine to tell people, "It hasn't worked out well in the past. Bob and I decided not to loan money to family or friends because of the stress it puts on our relationships with them, AND with each other. And we committed to each other stay on this path for the next several years. I am afraid I can't help right now." Then be quiet. You need say no more. Some people will get mad. Life is like that.
posted by FauxScot at 6:27 PM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
In my case, the family stuff had to come to an end. I was "the bank" for a decade. Still surprised at some of the crap. I finally drew the line when my father died. The modest amount we kids all received was enough to materially affect my mother's financial situation if pooled and invested in a lifetime annuity, but I could not get them all on board, so I told them I was no longer the bank in that case. Inside a few months, someone was there with a hand extended and I just flat out reminded them what I said and that was it. Big blowup, but I haven't made a loan or gift since.
In every case where a loan was involved, it was not repaid. I responded by giving gifts. Even that changes a relationship for the worst, so the last time a friend asked for money, I had to tell him as politely as I could "X, I am really sorry you are having a hard time with this. I value our relationship so much that I don't want to change it. Money screws things up. If there's any other way for you to do this, it would be better than putting us in this situation. I am afraid I just can't, but I sure hope you can get this problem solved. It sounds horrible."
I think it's perfectly fine to tell people, "It hasn't worked out well in the past. Bob and I decided not to loan money to family or friends because of the stress it puts on our relationships with them, AND with each other. And we committed to each other stay on this path for the next several years. I am afraid I can't help right now." Then be quiet. You need say no more. Some people will get mad. Life is like that.
posted by FauxScot at 6:27 PM on April 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Eh, I'd probably give token amounts, like $10, but I'm a pushover that way. If they badger for more, that's when I'd whip out the "sorry, I already gave you what I could"
That assumes I genuinely had it to give, of course.
I'm probably that way because I tend to spend most "extra" money I have on frivolous things, so it makes me feel good to feel like at least some of my money is going to help people out rather than buying another game or whatever. I'm buying myself something for it, I suppose.
posted by wierdo at 6:56 PM on April 28, 2015
That assumes I genuinely had it to give, of course.
I'm probably that way because I tend to spend most "extra" money I have on frivolous things, so it makes me feel good to feel like at least some of my money is going to help people out rather than buying another game or whatever. I'm buying myself something for it, I suppose.
posted by wierdo at 6:56 PM on April 28, 2015
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You are newly married to a warm hearted man, which is glorious! Be very careful about the patterns you set (which you are very sensitive to right now... good wifey). You are in the honeymoon period, and money, family, all those majorly complicated areas might be clouded over by the newness of your marriage. I've seen a similar situation from afar, and seen resentment build in a big way. Family and money are two very slippery slopes. Boundaries are key.
Perhaps make a list of "likely scenarios" you will face with your family... then imagine what you would say in each situation. You need to arm yourself so that when the heartstrings (and pursestrings) are being tugged, you can go into the script of what you need to say, rather than what your heart wants you to say.
Good luck... very tricky situation. But it sounds like you have a wonderful marriage, so good for you!
posted by hippychick at 3:15 AM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]