Chaos: The Next Generation
April 11, 2015 7:56 AM Subscribe
The family is growing, but not in good circumstances. As a concerned, but not directly involved party, how much involvement should I strive for?
My dumb brother got his GF pregnant. He's a depressed untreated alcoholic who's recently gone off his meds. She has anxiety severe enough to qualify for disability on that basis alone and is already a single mom to an older child. Further complicating the situation is that my brother had a little baby tantrum complete with "It's not faaaaair!" when his GF told him and now she won't talk to him, though she's said she plans to carry the pregnancy to term and raise the child without him, if need be. He has at least sobered up long enough to realize that he doesn't want to just be a deadbeat dad, for whatever that's worth.
Brother and I grew up with alcoholism and potential Narcissism in our family plus all the denial you can eat. I have a fairly stable life and a child of my own. It really upsets me to think that now a little person is being brought into more of the same kind of damaging garbage I still work with multiple therapists to overcome. However, I'm also aware that the dynamic from my family of origin is to play that Drama Triangle at every opportunity and indeed, I've had many rounds of long, fraught phone calls from my mom and brother. I've stopped offering either any solutions and just told them to either talk to one another or some professional better equipped to deal.
However, I can't help but feel that this is just a terrible situation for the baby and I'd like to contribute what I can in the form of stability, if possible. The mother is perfectly capable of raising the child, as far as I can tell, so it's not like the baby's going to be abandoned. She does not want to consider adoption. I plan on offering whatever help they're willing to accept. I know I need to back off from trying to Rescue anyone, though, but I'm still not sure where the line should be. I feel I might need to be a little more proactive since we're talking about a child's life. I guess my question is how to know when I should legitimately intervene?
My dumb brother got his GF pregnant. He's a depressed untreated alcoholic who's recently gone off his meds. She has anxiety severe enough to qualify for disability on that basis alone and is already a single mom to an older child. Further complicating the situation is that my brother had a little baby tantrum complete with "It's not faaaaair!" when his GF told him and now she won't talk to him, though she's said she plans to carry the pregnancy to term and raise the child without him, if need be. He has at least sobered up long enough to realize that he doesn't want to just be a deadbeat dad, for whatever that's worth.
Brother and I grew up with alcoholism and potential Narcissism in our family plus all the denial you can eat. I have a fairly stable life and a child of my own. It really upsets me to think that now a little person is being brought into more of the same kind of damaging garbage I still work with multiple therapists to overcome. However, I'm also aware that the dynamic from my family of origin is to play that Drama Triangle at every opportunity and indeed, I've had many rounds of long, fraught phone calls from my mom and brother. I've stopped offering either any solutions and just told them to either talk to one another or some professional better equipped to deal.
However, I can't help but feel that this is just a terrible situation for the baby and I'd like to contribute what I can in the form of stability, if possible. The mother is perfectly capable of raising the child, as far as I can tell, so it's not like the baby's going to be abandoned. She does not want to consider adoption. I plan on offering whatever help they're willing to accept. I know I need to back off from trying to Rescue anyone, though, but I'm still not sure where the line should be. I feel I might need to be a little more proactive since we're talking about a child's life. I guess my question is how to know when I should legitimately intervene?
This is sad, but keep in mind that there are tragic situations all over the world for kids, and you can't save them all. Of course it's wonderful to offer whatever support that you feel you can emotionally offer, without negatively impacting your own child/family (i.e. don't get sucked into endless financial support that means you don't have the money to support your kid's college education). But ultimately you can't control this situation any more than you can control the many other sad situations that children in all sorts of abusive or less-than-ideal families face.
posted by rainbowbrite at 8:51 AM on April 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 8:51 AM on April 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
Do you live nearby enough that you can babysit the older kid? Unless and until your brother gets stable, the girlfriend is basically a single mom, so do what you would do for a single mom who needs help: babysit, get them out of the house so she can have a break, offer to drive her to prenatal appointments, etc. Basically assume your brother will not help (unreliable, when it comes to kids, is the same as nonexistent) and work from that.
You could also offer to help her get the SSI/SSDI process set up if she hasn't already. That would open a lot of doors to other help for them. It's a difficult program to access and you really need two heads to make sense of it.
Decide what you personally are willing to do (can you give money, and if so, how much? Are you willing to give X hours of your time per week? Does this impact your family/lifestyle acceptably?) and stick to it.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:57 AM on April 11, 2015
You could also offer to help her get the SSI/SSDI process set up if she hasn't already. That would open a lot of doors to other help for them. It's a difficult program to access and you really need two heads to make sense of it.
Decide what you personally are willing to do (can you give money, and if so, how much? Are you willing to give X hours of your time per week? Does this impact your family/lifestyle acceptably?) and stick to it.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:57 AM on April 11, 2015
Further complicating the situation is that my brother had a little baby tantrum complete with "It's not faaaaair!"
You'd be surprised how many seemingly intelligent, guys in their 30s with jobs and cars and advanced degrees do this to their wives and girlfriends when they get their girlfriends or wives pregnant. Some are psycho enough to try and coerce or manipulate the pregnant partner into an abortion. There's a new case everyday. I'd say the good thing is that you're aware of your bro's shortcomings and he's expressing his whining without (hopefully) malice or plans to endanger his ex gf or baby's health.
Sit your bro down and tell him it's time to be an adult and that he needs to start thinking straight. And that you'll call him out on it every time if he doesn't. Run him through some scenarios he needs to consider on how to be a good partner through the pregnancy and that his ex gf and newborn are going to need to be able to count on him so he best concentrate on getting his shit together. And her getting pregnant is his fault for not wrapping it. He can't blame her (there will be people who will let him blame her).
You might just reach out to the pregnant girlfriend, if your brother is being a whiny dipshit and asshole or is choosing to ignore the situation. I'm sure she'll be grateful that you care.
And don't worry about narcissism and alcoholism just yet. Be there for the pregnant girl and tell your brother that if he doesn't shape up, hes going to miss this window to be a better person and a good dad.
posted by discopolo at 9:07 AM on April 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
You'd be surprised how many seemingly intelligent, guys in their 30s with jobs and cars and advanced degrees do this to their wives and girlfriends when they get their girlfriends or wives pregnant. Some are psycho enough to try and coerce or manipulate the pregnant partner into an abortion. There's a new case everyday. I'd say the good thing is that you're aware of your bro's shortcomings and he's expressing his whining without (hopefully) malice or plans to endanger his ex gf or baby's health.
Sit your bro down and tell him it's time to be an adult and that he needs to start thinking straight. And that you'll call him out on it every time if he doesn't. Run him through some scenarios he needs to consider on how to be a good partner through the pregnancy and that his ex gf and newborn are going to need to be able to count on him so he best concentrate on getting his shit together. And her getting pregnant is his fault for not wrapping it. He can't blame her (there will be people who will let him blame her).
You might just reach out to the pregnant girlfriend, if your brother is being a whiny dipshit and asshole or is choosing to ignore the situation. I'm sure she'll be grateful that you care.
And don't worry about narcissism and alcoholism just yet. Be there for the pregnant girl and tell your brother that if he doesn't shape up, hes going to miss this window to be a better person and a good dad.
posted by discopolo at 9:07 AM on April 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'd like to contribute what I can in the form of stability, if possible.
I think maintaining your own stability & sanity is the best way to do this, coupled with the suggestion above to make yourself available to the parents in whatever ways you are comfortable with (i.e. with a clear sense of your own boundaries.) In your question you seem torn between acknowledging that there's really nothing you can do beyond that, and thinking "there's gotta be more I can do!" When should you intervene? When you would still do so were it not your family.
(My experience as an untreated alcoholic was that there was literally no life situation or external circumstance serious/important/heavy enough to divert me from my own self-interest. HMMV, of course, but I wouldn't count on "not wanting to be a deadbeat dad" as a sufficient motive for your brother to change.)
posted by generalist at 9:47 AM on April 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think maintaining your own stability & sanity is the best way to do this, coupled with the suggestion above to make yourself available to the parents in whatever ways you are comfortable with (i.e. with a clear sense of your own boundaries.) In your question you seem torn between acknowledging that there's really nothing you can do beyond that, and thinking "there's gotta be more I can do!" When should you intervene? When you would still do so were it not your family.
(My experience as an untreated alcoholic was that there was literally no life situation or external circumstance serious/important/heavy enough to divert me from my own self-interest. HMMV, of course, but I wouldn't count on "not wanting to be a deadbeat dad" as a sufficient motive for your brother to change.)
posted by generalist at 9:47 AM on April 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
You can be a stable influence by being present in the child's life and being a good uncle/aunt to it (and its sibling). Show them an example of a healthy adult with healthy relationships, education, and a career. Be around. Most of all, be around.
posted by bq at 10:18 AM on April 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bq at 10:18 AM on April 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess my question is how to know when I should legitimately intervene?
I know that this isn't concrete Step 1-Step 2 advice, but you are the child's uncle, and you have a child that will be the child's cousin. Although this wasn't my own experience (I grew up across the world from my extended family), I know lots of people who are very very close with their cousins/uncles/aunts. They saw them on a nearly daily basis and the relationship with their cousins is more like a sibling relationship. I was always very jealous of people knowing their cousins and extended family (instead of an uncle getting you in trouble for something you didn't even do a week after meeting you).
I think you should tell your brother's partner that you're committed to being an uncle and perhaps more importantly for her, having your child know his/her cousin. That might mean providing childcare when your child would have childcare anyway, or having them, or at least the child over on the weekends, etc. I don't think this has to be or should be seen as a "Rescuer" situation if you genuinely want this relationship with the child, which it sounds like you do and you should. While I didn't have biological relatives around, I did have a sort of surrogate family when I grew up, and they were invaluable, not just in a logistical providing childcare sense, but in the sense that now, as an adult, I really do feel that they were my family.
posted by Enchanting Grasshopper at 11:20 AM on April 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I know that this isn't concrete Step 1-Step 2 advice, but you are the child's uncle, and you have a child that will be the child's cousin. Although this wasn't my own experience (I grew up across the world from my extended family), I know lots of people who are very very close with their cousins/uncles/aunts. They saw them on a nearly daily basis and the relationship with their cousins is more like a sibling relationship. I was always very jealous of people knowing their cousins and extended family (instead of an uncle getting you in trouble for something you didn't even do a week after meeting you).
I think you should tell your brother's partner that you're committed to being an uncle and perhaps more importantly for her, having your child know his/her cousin. That might mean providing childcare when your child would have childcare anyway, or having them, or at least the child over on the weekends, etc. I don't think this has to be or should be seen as a "Rescuer" situation if you genuinely want this relationship with the child, which it sounds like you do and you should. While I didn't have biological relatives around, I did have a sort of surrogate family when I grew up, and they were invaluable, not just in a logistical providing childcare sense, but in the sense that now, as an adult, I really do feel that they were my family.
posted by Enchanting Grasshopper at 11:20 AM on April 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
As the single mom of an infant with an alcoholic coparent, here are a few things that would have been the most helpful from other family members/outsiders are:
1) Knowledge
Don’t underestimate how well an alcoholic/people in general can hide their issues. Does she know, and I mean REALLY know, that he is an alcoholic (and off his medications)? FWIW, I lived with my ex for about 1.5 years before we had a child together, and he was the type of alcoholic that could function just enough to where it wasn’t clear it was an issue until our child was already here. He tended to binge at night, after I was asleep, so the partner I knew by day wasn’t the same partner I quickly recognized had a serious problem once I was up more in the middle of the night with the baby. We have no family near us, so when his mom first visited us after the baby came, and when my ex starting deteriorating/disappearing/leaving at night around the same time, his mom shared a ton of information about her son’s history of alcoholism AND drug use AND past aggressive behavior, which was very helpful… but I felt could’ve been much more helpful if I could’ve had that knowledge to factor into life-changing decisions with the pregnancy and baby.
2) Communication/support/nonjudgment
It would have been tremendously helpful if his family members would have initiated direct communication with me about the pregnancy or our baby (along with maybe expressing concerns that they had given their knowledge of my ex and his addictions and other issues as stated above, or at least welcoming me to communicate with them). Just something along the lines of “congrats on the baby, we know how difficult he can be if he is using and we are concerned about his overall health and stability, so please don’t hesitate to call if you need to vent or need support of any kind” would’ve left the lines of communication open and increased my awareness of the issues/risks involved, while also not pressuring me or making me feel uncomfortable.
I agree with the above answers in other forms of support as well. And that children can be amazingly resilient. Al Anon for you could help. I also believe that involving as many healthy, positive adult role models and family in a child’s life as possible, can balance out some of the dysfunction they are likely to experience with having an alcoholic parent. I believe there has been research confirming this, but don’t know for sure. Having a stable, loving, involved uncle could make a big impact on the kiddo.
posted by aggielc at 11:28 AM on April 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
1) Knowledge
Don’t underestimate how well an alcoholic/people in general can hide their issues. Does she know, and I mean REALLY know, that he is an alcoholic (and off his medications)? FWIW, I lived with my ex for about 1.5 years before we had a child together, and he was the type of alcoholic that could function just enough to where it wasn’t clear it was an issue until our child was already here. He tended to binge at night, after I was asleep, so the partner I knew by day wasn’t the same partner I quickly recognized had a serious problem once I was up more in the middle of the night with the baby. We have no family near us, so when his mom first visited us after the baby came, and when my ex starting deteriorating/disappearing/leaving at night around the same time, his mom shared a ton of information about her son’s history of alcoholism AND drug use AND past aggressive behavior, which was very helpful… but I felt could’ve been much more helpful if I could’ve had that knowledge to factor into life-changing decisions with the pregnancy and baby.
2) Communication/support/nonjudgment
It would have been tremendously helpful if his family members would have initiated direct communication with me about the pregnancy or our baby (along with maybe expressing concerns that they had given their knowledge of my ex and his addictions and other issues as stated above, or at least welcoming me to communicate with them). Just something along the lines of “congrats on the baby, we know how difficult he can be if he is using and we are concerned about his overall health and stability, so please don’t hesitate to call if you need to vent or need support of any kind” would’ve left the lines of communication open and increased my awareness of the issues/risks involved, while also not pressuring me or making me feel uncomfortable.
I agree with the above answers in other forms of support as well. And that children can be amazingly resilient. Al Anon for you could help. I also believe that involving as many healthy, positive adult role models and family in a child’s life as possible, can balance out some of the dysfunction they are likely to experience with having an alcoholic parent. I believe there has been research confirming this, but don’t know for sure. Having a stable, loving, involved uncle could make a big impact on the kiddo.
posted by aggielc at 11:28 AM on April 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
I was once the girlfriend in that situation, exactly! My "brother in law" did the most amazing job, doing what discopolo said. Do that. I am for ever grateful. And while my boyfriend and I never got back together, we became good friends, and are good at raising our child.
posted by mumimor at 2:02 PM on April 11, 2015
posted by mumimor at 2:02 PM on April 11, 2015
I'm not qualified to get into much detail of what would help this kid, but what SOUNDS good to me, certainly, is presence. For both her kids. (A good relationship with the older one is a good thing to do but also a way to sense how things are going.)
All your thoughts sound spot-on. You can't fix, but you can be present and loving and vigilant. I'm sure there's probably a state or local agency that can advise you about what would need to be happening before they'd intervene, just as a point of information.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 8:49 PM on April 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
All your thoughts sound spot-on. You can't fix, but you can be present and loving and vigilant. I'm sure there's probably a state or local agency that can advise you about what would need to be happening before they'd intervene, just as a point of information.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 8:49 PM on April 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Beyond letting her know that you would like to be involved in your niece or nephew's life and that you're available to babysit, I'm not sure what else you could do at this point.
posted by amro at 8:16 AM on April 11, 2015