Triumph of the Underdog
March 24, 2015 9:33 AM Subscribe
Please help me find examples that illustrate an idea I like about underdogs.
So. I've come to like an idea recently, which is how to beat someone who is better than you at a thing.
Quite often, stories in books/films etc. are about who is the best at a (usually very narrow) thing, where the opponents are very evenly matched. Eg:
- can Holmes outsmart than Moriarty?
- can Rocky punch harder than Ivan Drago?
etc. etc.
I'm interested in situations where our hero is simply not as good as his opponent at the main task at hand, but triumphs by using other, secondary talents.
I've come to think this analogy is pretty appropriate for life, where success generally isn't about being really good at one thing, but being pretty good at a range of things and using what you've got. Eg, a student isn't the smartest in my class, but comes top by working harder, using better strategies for studying etc.
Unfortunately I'm struggling to think of examples from (real or fictional) where this idea is powerfully demonstrated. (This question is similar and has some good ideas (Moneyball is a great example), but doesn't contain the idea that our hero takes an oblique path to victory.)
- Arnold Schwarzenegger talking about body-building in recent Tim Ferris podcast. He emphasised that everyone was pretty much as big as each other, but he would win by paying attnetion to other stuff like a good tan, smile, underwear etc.
- Prince Oberon fighting the Mountain in Game of Thrones, (nearly) wins by using speed and agility.
Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
So. I've come to like an idea recently, which is how to beat someone who is better than you at a thing.
Quite often, stories in books/films etc. are about who is the best at a (usually very narrow) thing, where the opponents are very evenly matched. Eg:
- can Holmes outsmart than Moriarty?
- can Rocky punch harder than Ivan Drago?
etc. etc.
I'm interested in situations where our hero is simply not as good as his opponent at the main task at hand, but triumphs by using other, secondary talents.
I've come to think this analogy is pretty appropriate for life, where success generally isn't about being really good at one thing, but being pretty good at a range of things and using what you've got. Eg, a student isn't the smartest in my class, but comes top by working harder, using better strategies for studying etc.
Unfortunately I'm struggling to think of examples from (real or fictional) where this idea is powerfully demonstrated. (This question is similar and has some good ideas (Moneyball is a great example), but doesn't contain the idea that our hero takes an oblique path to victory.)
- Arnold Schwarzenegger talking about body-building in recent Tim Ferris podcast. He emphasised that everyone was pretty much as big as each other, but he would win by paying attnetion to other stuff like a good tan, smile, underwear etc.
- Prince Oberon fighting the Mountain in Game of Thrones, (nearly) wins by using speed and agility.
Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
Harry Potter
Voldemort is clearly skill-for-skill a better wizard, but Harry is very lucky, very brave, and accepts help from others. Voldemort thinks he's hot shit and so is done in by the one-two punch of hubris and Harry's determination.
posted by phunniemee at 9:38 AM on March 24, 2015
Voldemort is clearly skill-for-skill a better wizard, but Harry is very lucky, very brave, and accepts help from others. Voldemort thinks he's hot shit and so is done in by the one-two punch of hubris and Harry's determination.
posted by phunniemee at 9:38 AM on March 24, 2015
Slumdog Millionaire
posted by phunniemee at 9:42 AM on March 24, 2015
posted by phunniemee at 9:42 AM on March 24, 2015
This tends to happen in narratives about a Trickster god or culture hero. Trickster Wiki page
Herschel Stories from Jewish folklore.
Coyote, B'rer Rabbit, Anansi, Reynard the fox would all be other good places to research and here's TV Tropes
posted by edbles at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Herschel Stories from Jewish folklore.
Coyote, B'rer Rabbit, Anansi, Reynard the fox would all be other good places to research and here's TV Tropes
posted by edbles at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
How about Luke destroying his first Death Star? Frodo and Sam defeating Sauron?
Aladdin using his wiles to defeat Ja'far?
Andy Dufresne in Shawshank Redemption, and the way he escaped?
Westley in Princess Bride ("My brains, his steel, and your strength against sixty men, and you think a little head-jiggle is supposed to make me happy?") ... maybe Inigo against Count Rugen, too, but I suppose they're more evenly matched.
posted by DingoMutt at 11:02 AM on March 24, 2015
Aladdin using his wiles to defeat Ja'far?
Andy Dufresne in Shawshank Redemption, and the way he escaped?
Westley in Princess Bride ("My brains, his steel, and your strength against sixty men, and you think a little head-jiggle is supposed to make me happy?") ... maybe Inigo against Count Rugen, too, but I suppose they're more evenly matched.
posted by DingoMutt at 11:02 AM on March 24, 2015
Read the Myth Adventures book. It's filled with awesome examples. They are constantly getting in over their heads and shining through anyway.
I will not give you any examples from the books because it would constitute spoilers. The series is simply delightful and not to be missed.
posted by Michele in California at 11:12 AM on March 24, 2015
I will not give you any examples from the books because it would constitute spoilers. The series is simply delightful and not to be missed.
posted by Michele in California at 11:12 AM on March 24, 2015
Best answer: The central metaphor of the movie Gattaca is that the main character is just as good, if not better than, the genetically superior because he has more heart, more conviction.
For example, he finally defeats his brother in the swimming contest because he deliberately disregards his own safety.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:28 PM on March 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
For example, he finally defeats his brother in the swimming contest because he deliberately disregards his own safety.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:28 PM on March 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Isn't the classic example of this David and Goliath?
It sounds like the Tortoise and the Hare fits your particular framing as well.
posted by alms at 12:59 PM on March 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
It sounds like the Tortoise and the Hare fits your particular framing as well.
posted by alms at 12:59 PM on March 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This is not exactly on topic but I think the derivation of the word 'underdog' is interesting. It was in the timber trade that the phrase 'Top Dog and Underdog' actually came into being. The 'top dog' was the worker on the top of the double rip saw who worked on the top of the tree trunk. The 'underdog' worked on the under side of the tree and unfortunately worked as the sawdust and sweat fell onto him. The underdog worked in the most uncomfortable position out of the two.
The underdog theme is very common in fairy tales but I don't think it works quite in the way you want: rather, in fairy tales, from a bad start the underdog character ends up triumphing but this is because of their inherent, though overlooked, special qualities. Cinderella, Beauty, the Ugly Duckling etc, and Harry Potter too imo. Oh, and Dumbo.
I think this points out the difference between fairy tale and fable, because fables point to a lesson (ie The Little Engine that Could) whereas fairy tales are about magic and transformation and work on poetic logic rather than rational logic. "Have a fairy godmother" or "Be able to fly" aren't really practical lessons to take into real life. Perhaps arguably.
I can think of a legend that might agree with what you are looking for. In Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Sir Gawain is obviously inferior in prowess to his adversary, but through his honesty and honour he comes through.
posted by glasseyes at 6:04 PM on March 24, 2015
The underdog theme is very common in fairy tales but I don't think it works quite in the way you want: rather, in fairy tales, from a bad start the underdog character ends up triumphing but this is because of their inherent, though overlooked, special qualities. Cinderella, Beauty, the Ugly Duckling etc, and Harry Potter too imo. Oh, and Dumbo.
I think this points out the difference between fairy tale and fable, because fables point to a lesson (ie The Little Engine that Could) whereas fairy tales are about magic and transformation and work on poetic logic rather than rational logic. "Have a fairy godmother" or "Be able to fly" aren't really practical lessons to take into real life. Perhaps arguably.
I can think of a legend that might agree with what you are looking for. In Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Sir Gawain is obviously inferior in prowess to his adversary, but through his honesty and honour he comes through.
posted by glasseyes at 6:04 PM on March 24, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by tomboko at 9:36 AM on March 24, 2015 [1 favorite]