How much of a danger/problem is the sun in Australia?
March 7, 2015 3:37 AM Subscribe
How much of a danger/problem is the sun in Australia?
I was in Australia recently (it's summer there) and the sun seemed *really* strong. Additionally, everyone kept talking about how bad the sun is, how the ozone layer is very thin over Australia, etc. How much more dangerous is the sun in Australia vs other parts of the world? In order to prevent skin cancer and premature wrinkles/aging spots, is it necessary to wear sunblock every single day and reapply often? (Actually, is that even enough to avoid those problems, or is it just a given that an elevated skin cancer risk and premature aging are unavoidable if you live there?)
I was in Australia recently (it's summer there) and the sun seemed *really* strong. Additionally, everyone kept talking about how bad the sun is, how the ozone layer is very thin over Australia, etc. How much more dangerous is the sun in Australia vs other parts of the world? In order to prevent skin cancer and premature wrinkles/aging spots, is it necessary to wear sunblock every single day and reapply often? (Actually, is that even enough to avoid those problems, or is it just a given that an elevated skin cancer risk and premature aging are unavoidable if you live there?)
It can be pretty bad. The Cancer Council has some guidelines here. In my own experience I've known a few people to get skin cancer, and one who died of melanoma. Taking sensible precautions helps, but if you're fair skinned in Australia it's a risk you do have to be willing to accept. Even so, some context always helps: as bad as it is, skin cancer only ranks 16th in cause of death. Intentional self-harm comes in at 14th.
posted by langtonsant at 4:03 AM on March 7, 2015
posted by langtonsant at 4:03 AM on March 7, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks for the links. Yep, I'm indeed considering relocating, and I am pretty fair-skinned, and very very conscious of skin damage risks.
@olinerd: It's interesting that the Sydney numbers are pretty much the same as the Los Angeles and New York numbers (with the seasons reversed, of course). From this chart, it looks like Sydney really isn't any worse than those American cities, which I find surprising (and dubious). (Darwin is a different story, as you mentioned.)
posted by sunflower16 at 4:17 AM on March 7, 2015
@olinerd: It's interesting that the Sydney numbers are pretty much the same as the Los Angeles and New York numbers (with the seasons reversed, of course). From this chart, it looks like Sydney really isn't any worse than those American cities, which I find surprising (and dubious). (Darwin is a different story, as you mentioned.)
posted by sunflower16 at 4:17 AM on March 7, 2015
I'm a fair-skinned, blue-eyed Caucasian who grew up in a hot, dry part of Western Aus. I'm pretty conscious of the fact that my colouring is suited to a Northern European climate.
Basically, I have normal, everyday habits that minimise the risk of sunburn or UV damage. For example, I wear SPF50+ on my face and neck 365 days a year. I also use it as a moisturiser on my arms and legs during the summer months. I have tubes of high-SPF sunscreen in every purse I own, including spray sunscreens to get the back of my neck, ears, etc. Walking the dog always involves a hat. I stay off the beach between 11 am and 3 pm at the height of summer. Things like that.
But no, I don't live in perpetual low-level fear of skin cancer. I minimise my risks as much as possible, and then just get on with it. It's not a big deal.
posted by Salamander at 4:52 AM on March 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Basically, I have normal, everyday habits that minimise the risk of sunburn or UV damage. For example, I wear SPF50+ on my face and neck 365 days a year. I also use it as a moisturiser on my arms and legs during the summer months. I have tubes of high-SPF sunscreen in every purse I own, including spray sunscreens to get the back of my neck, ears, etc. Walking the dog always involves a hat. I stay off the beach between 11 am and 3 pm at the height of summer. Things like that.
But no, I don't live in perpetual low-level fear of skin cancer. I minimise my risks as much as possible, and then just get on with it. It's not a big deal.
posted by Salamander at 4:52 AM on March 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
I live in Australia. I am fair. I wear sunscreen everyday, even in winter. I still burn to peeling at least a couple of times a year. If I ever forget sunscreen I burn in around 10 minutes. When I lived in Europe for five years I never wore sunscreen unless going to the beach for the day, and I never got a sunburn.
The reason the skin cancer rates aren't higher than they are is probably education about sun dangers, and the fact that doctors check suspicious moles early and often. Stuff is probably caught here before it is cancerous more often than it is in other countries.
posted by lollusc at 4:57 AM on March 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
The reason the skin cancer rates aren't higher than they are is probably education about sun dangers, and the fact that doctors check suspicious moles early and often. Stuff is probably caught here before it is cancerous more often than it is in other countries.
posted by lollusc at 4:57 AM on March 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
In Victoria, where I live, it varies a lot according to the time of year and the time of day.
In the winter months (late May - August) the UV level generally doesn't get above 3, so even if you're outdoors for many hours you generally won't need sunscreen.
Even in the warmer months, you're fine before around 10am and after 5pm - the UV level is generally below 3 at that time and it's safe to be outside without any sun protection.
I tend to just avoid spending much time outdoors during peak daytime hours in the summer (easy for me as I have an office job). If I do have to go outside in the middle of the day, I'll wear sunscreen - but really, it's quite unpleasant being outside in the full sun in the summer so I don't find that I do it that often.
I don't wear sunscreen at all in the winter and I take advantage of the low UV levels and cooler temperatures to do things like going on hikes and horse riding.
Check out "When do I need sun protection?" on this page for more info.
posted by RubyScarlet at 5:05 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
In the winter months (late May - August) the UV level generally doesn't get above 3, so even if you're outdoors for many hours you generally won't need sunscreen.
Even in the warmer months, you're fine before around 10am and after 5pm - the UV level is generally below 3 at that time and it's safe to be outside without any sun protection.
I tend to just avoid spending much time outdoors during peak daytime hours in the summer (easy for me as I have an office job). If I do have to go outside in the middle of the day, I'll wear sunscreen - but really, it's quite unpleasant being outside in the full sun in the summer so I don't find that I do it that often.
I don't wear sunscreen at all in the winter and I take advantage of the low UV levels and cooler temperatures to do things like going on hikes and horse riding.
Check out "When do I need sun protection?" on this page for more info.
posted by RubyScarlet at 5:05 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm blonde and live in Sydney. I hate sunscreen, and so avoid wearing it by avoiding the sun. I rarely spend time outside in summer during the middle of the day, because more than about 10 minutes and I'll be burnt. This is no great loss, as it's unpleasantly hot in the sun in summer. Even with my best attempts to avoid bright sunlight, I have quite the farmers tan.
If you don't mind wearing sunscreen and a hat, and don't require all your skin to be all the same colour, it's not too much of a hassle. Though it's pretty hard to completely avoid getting burnt, even with sunscreen on. I've burnt my eyelids, the top of my feet, the back of my knees - anywhere that I missed sunscreening. Mole removal is pretty commonplace, but I've never personally known anyone with skin cancer.
The sun in Hobart I find even worse. It's not as hot there, but the sun has a nasty bite, and I've been burnt a few times without noticing. I've never worn sunscreen whilst travelling in Europe/N America, and have never been burnt there.
posted by kjs4 at 5:23 AM on March 7, 2015
If you don't mind wearing sunscreen and a hat, and don't require all your skin to be all the same colour, it's not too much of a hassle. Though it's pretty hard to completely avoid getting burnt, even with sunscreen on. I've burnt my eyelids, the top of my feet, the back of my knees - anywhere that I missed sunscreening. Mole removal is pretty commonplace, but I've never personally known anyone with skin cancer.
The sun in Hobart I find even worse. It's not as hot there, but the sun has a nasty bite, and I've been burnt a few times without noticing. I've never worn sunscreen whilst travelling in Europe/N America, and have never been burnt there.
posted by kjs4 at 5:23 AM on March 7, 2015
I wear sunscreen every day, and a hat if I'm going to be walking further than from the car to a front door. I've warned a number of northern hemispherians about the sun, and given them sunscreen which they usually don't use, and then are horrified by how burnt they get in a relatively short time. I'm not particularly fair, and I got a bit sunburnt the other week walking in direct sun for about an hour - with sunscreen and a hat, I assume reflected UV is what got me.
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 5:48 AM on March 7, 2015
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 5:48 AM on March 7, 2015
I grew up in Brisbane. It used to be called the skin cancer capital of Australia, but not so much now--schools in particular are much more aware of the problem. Most now have "no hat no play" rules.
Bear in mind that at least some of the skin cancer stats for places like New York probably reflect people going on holidays to hot climates and getting burnt. I gather that skin cancer rates in the UK and Ireland are now worse than Australia's, probably mostly for this reason.
Please wear a hat and sunscreen, and ideally stay out of the sun for a couple of hours each side of noon. This is so whether you are fair or dark--a dark complexion is really not much protection. I'm inclined to be a little inclined to gang on about this--my late wife, who was red-headed and who grew up in Queensland, died of melanoma.
posted by Logophiliac at 7:17 AM on March 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Bear in mind that at least some of the skin cancer stats for places like New York probably reflect people going on holidays to hot climates and getting burnt. I gather that skin cancer rates in the UK and Ireland are now worse than Australia's, probably mostly for this reason.
Please wear a hat and sunscreen, and ideally stay out of the sun for a couple of hours each side of noon. This is so whether you are fair or dark--a dark complexion is really not much protection. I'm inclined to be a little inclined to gang on about this--my late wife, who was red-headed and who grew up in Queensland, died of melanoma.
posted by Logophiliac at 7:17 AM on March 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes it's a problem in that it exists, but there are ways around it that aren't problems. You wear sunscreen everyday even if you are going to be indoors all day as UV will come through glass, but you should anyway no matter where you live and it's not more difficult to put on correctly than putting a moisturizer on. If you are not sweating or swimming a sunscreen that uses physical properties to block UV does not need to be reapplied as often as a chemical one.
You'll find you want to wear a hat, UV protecting sunglasses and a long sleeved light shirt in the sun, not only to protect from UV but because the sun gets damn hot on your skin & it is very bright so those protections serve 2 purposes.
While it feels awkward at first, remember everyone else is doing it. No one will think twice about you applying it, hell if I ever reapplied around friends, most would ask to borrow some. You'll see parents slathering sunscreen on kids where ever you go. It's just what people do. When I moved to the Midwest US from Australia all the bundling up you have to do to go outside in the middle of winter is feels like a pain in the ass but you get used to doing it and it's no more onerous than that, you do what you have to do to live in the climate you live in.
posted by wwax at 9:48 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
You'll find you want to wear a hat, UV protecting sunglasses and a long sleeved light shirt in the sun, not only to protect from UV but because the sun gets damn hot on your skin & it is very bright so those protections serve 2 purposes.
While it feels awkward at first, remember everyone else is doing it. No one will think twice about you applying it, hell if I ever reapplied around friends, most would ask to borrow some. You'll see parents slathering sunscreen on kids where ever you go. It's just what people do. When I moved to the Midwest US from Australia all the bundling up you have to do to go outside in the middle of winter is feels like a pain in the ass but you get used to doing it and it's no more onerous than that, you do what you have to do to live in the climate you live in.
posted by wwax at 9:48 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am a fair skinned blonde former Australian now living in the Netherlands. I grew up with similar sunscreen and hat habits that other Australians describe. In addition, my GP was *very* vigilant about moles - it was a regular question and I've had three moles removed. One had what was described as pre-cancerous changes, but nothing to be worried about.
Is the sun more dangerous in Australia? Probably not more so than other hot, sunny places. I think Wwax's comparison is apt - Australian use sun protection the way midwesterners bundle up for the winter.
I will also add that the hot Australian sun made me completely miserable. I hate the feeling of strong sunlight on my skin - I just feel like it's doing damage. I've become a lot more outdoorsy since moving to northern Europe.
posted by nerdfish at 11:04 AM on March 7, 2015
Is the sun more dangerous in Australia? Probably not more so than other hot, sunny places. I think Wwax's comparison is apt - Australian use sun protection the way midwesterners bundle up for the winter.
I will also add that the hot Australian sun made me completely miserable. I hate the feeling of strong sunlight on my skin - I just feel like it's doing damage. I've become a lot more outdoorsy since moving to northern Europe.
posted by nerdfish at 11:04 AM on March 7, 2015
Freckly redhead here of Welsh ancestry, lived in Victoria since I was 4.
I hate using sunscreen, and avoid it unless there are literally no alternatives. Fortunately, there are plenty of alternatives. I've got a stack of lightweight cotton long sleeve shirts I wear in Summer. I wear hats, and stand in the shade wherever possible. Chasing shade has become an ingrained habit in summer: I find myself walking along looking at where the lamp-posts are casting their shadow, and will cross the street or alter my route to stay out of the sun.
Once a year in early Spring I get a full body check-over for skin cancer. And sunglasses. Like all the time. UV damage to eyes is very common, and very easily avoided. In some respects, I think it's easier for me and other people with my complexion. There's no mystery about what might happen if we lie out in the sun: we'll get burnt to buggery. If you absolutely know that there's no percentage in doing something, it becomes pretty easy to modify your lifestyle to avoid it.
posted by tim_in_oz at 2:27 PM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I hate using sunscreen, and avoid it unless there are literally no alternatives. Fortunately, there are plenty of alternatives. I've got a stack of lightweight cotton long sleeve shirts I wear in Summer. I wear hats, and stand in the shade wherever possible. Chasing shade has become an ingrained habit in summer: I find myself walking along looking at where the lamp-posts are casting their shadow, and will cross the street or alter my route to stay out of the sun.
Once a year in early Spring I get a full body check-over for skin cancer. And sunglasses. Like all the time. UV damage to eyes is very common, and very easily avoided. In some respects, I think it's easier for me and other people with my complexion. There's no mystery about what might happen if we lie out in the sun: we'll get burnt to buggery. If you absolutely know that there's no percentage in doing something, it becomes pretty easy to modify your lifestyle to avoid it.
posted by tim_in_oz at 2:27 PM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the responses. I guess if I lived here, putting on (and reapplying) sunscreen would just have to become part of my daily routine. I like the comparison to getting bundled up for a harsh winter.
What I find strange is that everyone talks about the sun in Australia being so much worse than other places, and yet if this UV index chart linked from above is accurate - http://www.who.int/uv/intersunprogramme/activities/uv_index/en/index3.html - many places look to be equivalent. For example, the UV numbers for Los Angeles are about equivalent to those in Sydney, but I've never heard anyone talk about the dangerous southern California sun. Any idea why? Is Sydney sun much worse than LA sun in some other way or are they actually equivalent and Australian sun just has a worse reputation?
posted by sunflower16 at 2:29 PM on March 7, 2015
What I find strange is that everyone talks about the sun in Australia being so much worse than other places, and yet if this UV index chart linked from above is accurate - http://www.who.int/uv/intersunprogramme/activities/uv_index/en/index3.html - many places look to be equivalent. For example, the UV numbers for Los Angeles are about equivalent to those in Sydney, but I've never heard anyone talk about the dangerous southern California sun. Any idea why? Is Sydney sun much worse than LA sun in some other way or are they actually equivalent and Australian sun just has a worse reputation?
posted by sunflower16 at 2:29 PM on March 7, 2015
I think, sunflower16, what you're seeing is also a cultural difference. Australian culture is very outdoors-orientated. Spending time, and lots of it, in the sun - whether it's at the beach, having a BBQ in the park, or just out in the garden on the weekend - is viewed by many as a quintessentially Australian thing to do. In addition, widespread home use of air-conditioners etc only really took off in the 2000s I would argue - and I'm from QLD, where they need it most! There is, I think, a slightly different perspective on being outdoors.
There is a long history of a tan being something to be cultivated, and with a population that for much of the 20th century was predominantly of northern European descent, the results where inevitable.
I, personally, haven' been sunburnt in years, I detest it, and I also worry that my childhood of long, sunscreen-less days beside the pool will catch up with me. I just avoid going out into the sun in the middle of the day almost always, and am careful to cover up when I do. I don't find it that hard.
posted by smoke at 3:15 PM on March 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
There is a long history of a tan being something to be cultivated, and with a population that for much of the 20th century was predominantly of northern European descent, the results where inevitable.
I, personally, haven' been sunburnt in years, I detest it, and I also worry that my childhood of long, sunscreen-less days beside the pool will catch up with me. I just avoid going out into the sun in the middle of the day almost always, and am careful to cover up when I do. I don't find it that hard.
posted by smoke at 3:15 PM on March 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I wonder if hours of sunlight make a difference?
In any case, aussie here and I once got sunburnt from reflected sunlight off a pool. I wear moisturiser sunscreen every day on my face and neck (and need to start hands) and avoid the sun where I can. The 30 or so minutes of my walking commute to school with my daughter have been enough this summer to give me a tan on my feet.
But yeah, it's just standard to sunscreen up, to carry it, to wear it, reapply. Hats all the time. I quite like using a parasol myself.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:17 PM on March 7, 2015
In any case, aussie here and I once got sunburnt from reflected sunlight off a pool. I wear moisturiser sunscreen every day on my face and neck (and need to start hands) and avoid the sun where I can. The 30 or so minutes of my walking commute to school with my daughter have been enough this summer to give me a tan on my feet.
But yeah, it's just standard to sunscreen up, to carry it, to wear it, reapply. Hats all the time. I quite like using a parasol myself.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:17 PM on March 7, 2015
For what it's worth, my northern hemisphere visitors always remark on how hot the sun feels. That on very hot days, it just feels like the the sunlight is hotter and harsher than they're used to. I was in northern Europe in the summer a few years ago, and we had some hot days, nearly as hot as a Sydney summer, and I felt hot, but didn't feel that fury blasting from the sky hot sun that really hot days can feel like here.
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 3:25 PM on March 7, 2015
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 3:25 PM on March 7, 2015
I have wondered about that myself, with regard to the UV numbers. I think Australia probably has fewer cloudy days that many other places where the UV index would otherwise be just as high? E.g. I've lived in Sydney for about a year and I can count on one hand the number of days we've had where the sun wasn't shining viciously for at least half of it. Also, as smoke says, it doesn't matter so much what the UV index is if you don't have cultural expectations of spending a lot of time outdoors. Although I would have thought Californians were into the outdoors as much as Australians. Finally, I notice the chart people linked shows the maximum UV index for a given month. It's possible that that maximum is reached only once or twice in the month in e.g. California, but every single day in Australia. I checked yesterday's UV index when I saw this question, and it was slightly over the maximum that chart gives for this month in Sydney.
posted by lollusc at 3:28 PM on March 7, 2015
posted by lollusc at 3:28 PM on March 7, 2015
Yes, the sun is very strong. As children we're taught to "slip, slop, slap" (slip on a shirt, slop on some sunscreen, and slap on a hat), among other lessons in sun safety such as how it's still possible to get sunburnt on overcast days.
The Bureau of Meteorology provides good information about the UV ratings each day. Have a look at this weather forecast for Melbourne and you'll see that today it is 23 degrees C and cloudy, and the UV will still be considered "high" between 10.20 am and 4.40 pm. But "high" is only a level 7. I'm not sure exactly how high the scale goes, but I've seen days that were rated at at least a 12 or 13! I think that they're going to change the UV ratings soon. There's some more info here.
During summer, I do my best to avoid being out in the sun during peak UV times. If I am out in the sun, I'm wearing sunscreen that is at least 30+ SPF and reapplying every couple of hours. I'll also usually wear a light jacket or cardigan, even if it's super hot (even when it's like 35 degrees c!) because I'd rather be temporarily a bit too warm than to be sunburnt for a few days. I wear sunglasses pretty much all the time.
If you follow basic sun safety like wearing sunglasses and sunscreen and not standing or sitting outside in the middle of the day, you'll avoid the majority of the damage. I think I only know one person who looks older than she is from what might be sun damage, but she is also a heavy smoker.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 3:57 PM on March 7, 2015
The Bureau of Meteorology provides good information about the UV ratings each day. Have a look at this weather forecast for Melbourne and you'll see that today it is 23 degrees C and cloudy, and the UV will still be considered "high" between 10.20 am and 4.40 pm. But "high" is only a level 7. I'm not sure exactly how high the scale goes, but I've seen days that were rated at at least a 12 or 13! I think that they're going to change the UV ratings soon. There's some more info here.
During summer, I do my best to avoid being out in the sun during peak UV times. If I am out in the sun, I'm wearing sunscreen that is at least 30+ SPF and reapplying every couple of hours. I'll also usually wear a light jacket or cardigan, even if it's super hot (even when it's like 35 degrees c!) because I'd rather be temporarily a bit too warm than to be sunburnt for a few days. I wear sunglasses pretty much all the time.
If you follow basic sun safety like wearing sunglasses and sunscreen and not standing or sitting outside in the middle of the day, you'll avoid the majority of the damage. I think I only know one person who looks older than she is from what might be sun damage, but she is also a heavy smoker.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 3:57 PM on March 7, 2015
Look at pictures of Terri Irwin (Steve Irwin the crocodile hunter's widow) from before moving to Australia and after a 5-10 years living there. The change is drastic.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 5:55 PM on March 7, 2015
posted by St. Peepsburg at 5:55 PM on March 7, 2015
Response by poster: @lollusc: the chart shows the max UV index for the 21st day of each month.
posted by sunflower16 at 4:07 AM on March 8, 2015
posted by sunflower16 at 4:07 AM on March 8, 2015
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I can't answer all your questions but anecdotally I can say I know a fair number of older Australians who don't look totally sun damaged. Then again, they grew up before the ozone hole.
From your previous questions it looks like you're thinking of relocating, so that's why you're asking? I mean, on a daily basis, everyone here takes reasonable precautions sort of the same way those from colder climes prepare themselves to go outside in winter. If you're just running errands, you have your UV-blocking sunglasses. Out for a short walk? A hat to keep the sun off your face and neck and whatever clothes you'd normally wear. Working in the yard? Long sleeves and pants, or lots of sunscreen, plus your hat and sunnies. I've converted my swimwear to include a SPF 50 rash guard and I use at least SPF 30 sunscreen even though before moving here I hardly ever bothered.
I'd say your biggest day to day chance would be more wearing of hats (an excellent opportunity for cool hats anyway!). It's a thing here in a way it hasn't been anywhere else I've lived. And if you're outside for extended periods in a group, applying sunscreen becomes a social activity. But it's not like everyone walks around knowing they're doomed to wrinkles and skin cancer.
posted by olinerd at 4:01 AM on March 7, 2015 [1 favorite]