Help me help a good kid.
November 21, 2005 7:19 PM Subscribe
One of my wife's students (elementary school) was arrested for making contact with another student with a knife while off campus. It goes downhill from there.
He is very young and not a criminal. (No priors, decent student.) He has no family interested in visiting him let alone helping him to get out of this jam. As a teacher, my wife has no legal right to contact him (other than snail-mail). He will be in Juvi until his court date, which could be for at least one month. He has nothing and no legal guardian to help him. My wife and I are stymied but want desperately to support him emotionally and/or legally, if possible.
Teachers, cops, legal eagles, help us help this little guy who made a very bad choice.
Also, how can I respond/comment "anonymously" in this thread. I'm only "anon" for legal reasons.
He is very young and not a criminal. (No priors, decent student.) He has no family interested in visiting him let alone helping him to get out of this jam. As a teacher, my wife has no legal right to contact him (other than snail-mail). He will be in Juvi until his court date, which could be for at least one month. He has nothing and no legal guardian to help him. My wife and I are stymied but want desperately to support him emotionally and/or legally, if possible.
Teachers, cops, legal eagles, help us help this little guy who made a very bad choice.
Also, how can I respond/comment "anonymously" in this thread. I'm only "anon" for legal reasons.
Uh, a 12-year-old or younger has no family or guardian? That's unpossible. Who's paying the rent?
Or looked at another way, if the above is true, he clearly needs to meet the local child welfare people and this is one way to do it. So it's for the best, really.
I wouldn't worry about it. I laud your caringness. But the system is set up to deliver the (limited) amount of child services aid to the child, and the system will actively fight you if you attempt to interfere. There is literally nothing you can do. So when I say don't worry about it, I mean it in the spirit of "change what you can, accept what you can't change, and have the wisdom to know the difference". You cannot affect this child's destiny at this point.
posted by jellicle at 8:08 PM on November 21, 2005
Or looked at another way, if the above is true, he clearly needs to meet the local child welfare people and this is one way to do it. So it's for the best, really.
I wouldn't worry about it. I laud your caringness. But the system is set up to deliver the (limited) amount of child services aid to the child, and the system will actively fight you if you attempt to interfere. There is literally nothing you can do. So when I say don't worry about it, I mean it in the spirit of "change what you can, accept what you can't change, and have the wisdom to know the difference". You cannot affect this child's destiny at this point.
posted by jellicle at 8:08 PM on November 21, 2005
Uh, a 12-year-old or younger has no family or guardian?
Where does it say he's 12 or younger? Where does it say he has no family or guardian? It says he's "very young". It says he has "he has no family interested...". jellicle, your reading comprehension blows almost as much as your advice.
You cannot affect this child's destiny at this point.
Nonsense. Making the kid aware that he has an adult who gives a shit and is willing to support him emotionally can certainly "affect this child's destiny".
The process for making him aware of your feelings--that I can't help you with. But as someone who lived among some very messed up youth when I was a kid myself (my mom was a foster parent)--I can't stress enough how important it is for you to find out what loopholes you need to jump through.
As for your anon status, feel free to email me if you wish and I'll post anything you want posted and not relay your identity.
posted by Manhasset at 8:50 PM on November 21, 2005
Where does it say he's 12 or younger? Where does it say he has no family or guardian? It says he's "very young". It says he has "he has no family interested...". jellicle, your reading comprehension blows almost as much as your advice.
You cannot affect this child's destiny at this point.
Nonsense. Making the kid aware that he has an adult who gives a shit and is willing to support him emotionally can certainly "affect this child's destiny".
The process for making him aware of your feelings--that I can't help you with. But as someone who lived among some very messed up youth when I was a kid myself (my mom was a foster parent)--I can't stress enough how important it is for you to find out what loopholes you need to jump through.
As for your anon status, feel free to email me if you wish and I'll post anything you want posted and not relay your identity.
posted by Manhasset at 8:50 PM on November 21, 2005
Oh, and jellicle, my apologies. It appears my own reading comprehension blows--just noticed the "elementary school" line in the more outside.
posted by Manhasset at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by Manhasset at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2005
The first thing you need to is hire a family-law lawyer.
posted by Paris Hilton at 9:09 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by Paris Hilton at 9:09 PM on November 21, 2005
Jellicle is probably right that the child welfare system will fight your attempts to help, but that is a pretty lousy reason to abandon (yet another) kid to their mediocrity, just go into it knowing that you'll have to fight them.
Taking an interest in the kid and showing him that you are willing to make an effort on his behalf could be a huge help to him, but take care not to give him unrealistic expectations, especially at first.
Good luck!
posted by Good Brain at 9:41 PM on November 21, 2005
Taking an interest in the kid and showing him that you are willing to make an effort on his behalf could be a huge help to him, but take care not to give him unrealistic expectations, especially at first.
Good luck!
posted by Good Brain at 9:41 PM on November 21, 2005
Anonymous, I have no advice but if you want to email me I will post your clarifications/replies in this thread.
posted by LarryC at 9:48 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by LarryC at 9:48 PM on November 21, 2005
Also, how can I respond/comment "anonymously" in this thread.Email jessamyn. She is one of the admins for this site, and she has offered several times to help people post anonymous replies to their AskMe threads.
(Feel free to delete this post afterward.)
posted by cribcage at 9:50 PM on November 21, 2005
anonymous,
I'm not a social worker, but my mother is. She handles cases like this all the time, unfortunately.
I don't know what kind of safety net your local community has, but in ours such a kid would almost certainly have a case worker assigned, and that case worker has limited authority to work with and within the schools. It is exceptional that you are so concerned about this kid, but you're probably right that your hands are tied legally in various ways. If you can find out who the caseworker is, you might be able to get some answers as to the best way to help him.
I'd also have to warn you against making blanket "good kid/bad choice" judgements. There are an awful lot of kids (and adults) who make bad choices despite being basically "good" in contexts separated from the crime. Your white knight intents, as your teacher wife may have some experience, may be for naught. At the same time, you do recognize that kids without a support network are at the most risk. The long run choice might be to work to get him and his family to recognize what he needs, rather than stepping in to provide it yourself. Nevertheless, I commend you for your caring.
I'll ask my mother if she has any additional comments, so check back in a day or two. Good luck.
posted by dhartung at 12:30 AM on November 22, 2005
I'm not a social worker, but my mother is. She handles cases like this all the time, unfortunately.
I don't know what kind of safety net your local community has, but in ours such a kid would almost certainly have a case worker assigned, and that case worker has limited authority to work with and within the schools. It is exceptional that you are so concerned about this kid, but you're probably right that your hands are tied legally in various ways. If you can find out who the caseworker is, you might be able to get some answers as to the best way to help him.
I'd also have to warn you against making blanket "good kid/bad choice" judgements. There are an awful lot of kids (and adults) who make bad choices despite being basically "good" in contexts separated from the crime. Your white knight intents, as your teacher wife may have some experience, may be for naught. At the same time, you do recognize that kids without a support network are at the most risk. The long run choice might be to work to get him and his family to recognize what he needs, rather than stepping in to provide it yourself. Nevertheless, I commend you for your caring.
I'll ask my mother if she has any additional comments, so check back in a day or two. Good luck.
posted by dhartung at 12:30 AM on November 22, 2005
Are you sure you can't even visit him in juvi? You might not be able to discuss the legal details of his case with the people in charge, but maybe you can at least get in for a visit. If that's not possible, then letters would still be better than nothing.
As for his court proceedings, I agree with other posters that you should do everything possible to find out if you can have any positive impact there. Regardless of whether he's a good kid or a bad kid, he should get out of lockup ASAP.
posted by footnote at 5:58 AM on November 22, 2005
As for his court proceedings, I agree with other posters that you should do everything possible to find out if you can have any positive impact there. Regardless of whether he's a good kid or a bad kid, he should get out of lockup ASAP.
posted by footnote at 5:58 AM on November 22, 2005
Another thing: when dealing with bureaucracies, the key is persistance more than knowing any one magic word or form to get what you want. Sorry to say it, but bureaucrats will simply lie to you or make stuff up just to get you off the phone. It's your job to call back, call someone else, or ask the question in a slightly different way.
Don't take no for an answer. Make it known that this kid has people who care about him and won't let him disappear into the system.
posted by footnote at 6:03 AM on November 22, 2005
Don't take no for an answer. Make it known that this kid has people who care about him and won't let him disappear into the system.
posted by footnote at 6:03 AM on November 22, 2005
you can also email me (added because i don't live in the states - although i do visit from time to time - if you are paranoid about me being sub-poenaed(?!) or whatever; andrew@acooke.org).
posted by andrew cooke at 6:23 AM on November 22, 2005
posted by andrew cooke at 6:23 AM on November 22, 2005
My mom is a former teacher, and I know she visited students in juvenile detention. The law may be different here in Canada, but I think it's worth trying to make a visit to give him some support.
posted by teg at 7:07 AM on November 22, 2005
posted by teg at 7:07 AM on November 22, 2005
i defended juveniles for a number of years as a private pro bono attorney through a local juvenile justice clinic. if you have a local juvenile justice clinic (either through a law school or not), i highly recommend trying to get them to take the kid's case. it isn't that the PD won't do a good job; it's simply that the clinic will have more resources to throw at his case. the clinic attorneys will also be easier to get in touch with.
his attorneys absolutely will not be able to discuss his case with you (more than telling you what he court dates are and whether or not he's faring reasonably well in JDOC--and they may not choose to tell you that), but they will help you stay involved, if he wants it and if it will not be a detriment to his case. a PD is less likely to do so, in part because which PD is handling the case is likely to change over the course of the case.
at the bare minimum, send the kid personal letters, but more to the point, send him a letter for his attorneys. specify in it precisely what you are willing to do on his behalf (supervise him upon release? appear on his behalf at a disposition hearing? write a letter to the judge) and leave evey form of contact information you have. email me if you like: lizzy dot esq at gmail.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2005
his attorneys absolutely will not be able to discuss his case with you (more than telling you what he court dates are and whether or not he's faring reasonably well in JDOC--and they may not choose to tell you that), but they will help you stay involved, if he wants it and if it will not be a detriment to his case. a PD is less likely to do so, in part because which PD is handling the case is likely to change over the course of the case.
at the bare minimum, send the kid personal letters, but more to the point, send him a letter for his attorneys. specify in it precisely what you are willing to do on his behalf (supervise him upon release? appear on his behalf at a disposition hearing? write a letter to the judge) and leave evey form of contact information you have. email me if you like: lizzy dot esq at gmail.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2005
You did say above that snail-mail does work. That may not be the best, but it is a start. Letters and care packages can mean the world to a kid in his shoes, at least it tells him that someone in this world cares.
And, what they said above too...
posted by Pollomacho at 7:26 AM on November 22, 2005
And, what they said above too...
posted by Pollomacho at 7:26 AM on November 22, 2005
I'm not sure how it works where you are; but most jails have a commissary/jail store, and the prisoners have commissary accounts, like bank accounts, but the funds can only be spent at the commissary/jail store. I guess it depends on the specific rules for each facility, but I believe that anyone can add money to any prisoner's commissary account.
I might be wrong, but it's worth investigating. That way he'd have some money to buy snacks, gum, magazines, toiletries, etc.
posted by weirdoactor at 7:40 AM on November 22, 2005
I might be wrong, but it's worth investigating. That way he'd have some money to buy snacks, gum, magazines, toiletries, etc.
posted by weirdoactor at 7:40 AM on November 22, 2005
The juvi stint is symptomatic of a larger problem. Send him letters and treats if you're allowed. But if you're really interested in this kid, become involved in his life once he's out as a mentor. Be consistently supportive and "there" for him whether he's in a "good" or "bad" phase. What dhartung said. What he probably needs is involvement and support in his life.
Feeling helpless in light of his predicament sucks for you, but what he really needs is not a guardian angel to swoop down and save him from this situation. As tough as it sounds, he needs to learn that there are consequences to his actions, even if they're not fair. This is bad, but won't be the worst thing that ever happens to him, and it might teach him something. What he needs is some consistent, positive influences in his life who can provide and model supportive, loving behavior for him and will not abandon him in the future even if he screws up again. For the rest of his life as long as he needs it. Think about whether you can offer that. $.02 former foster care CW.
posted by Marnie at 1:42 PM on November 22, 2005
Feeling helpless in light of his predicament sucks for you, but what he really needs is not a guardian angel to swoop down and save him from this situation. As tough as it sounds, he needs to learn that there are consequences to his actions, even if they're not fair. This is bad, but won't be the worst thing that ever happens to him, and it might teach him something. What he needs is some consistent, positive influences in his life who can provide and model supportive, loving behavior for him and will not abandon him in the future even if he screws up again. For the rest of his life as long as he needs it. Think about whether you can offer that. $.02 former foster care CW.
posted by Marnie at 1:42 PM on November 22, 2005
I got an email from anonymous who says "My wife and I are endlessly thankful for the kind and insightful comments in this thread. Also thanks to you who were so willing to post comments for us. You are all very generous. We now have many avenues to persue, and we will. This is going to end well, and you guys deserve alot of the credit for that. Thank you."
posted by jessamyn at 5:20 PM on November 22, 2005
posted by jessamyn at 5:20 PM on November 22, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
If his parents truly want nothing to do with him, he needs a guardian ad litem to represent his best interests. This person is the child's "attorney in fact," and works alongside his "attorney at law." The public defender or other legal aide assigned to his case will represent the child's legal interests, and the role of the guardian ad litem is to play the role of the client in discussions with his attorney, making tactical decisions that are traditionally the province of the client, and otherwise representing the client in his non-legal capacity.
You should contact the attorney on retainer for your school system or teacher's union to find out how you can get the ball rolling. This is a substantial undertaking and it's heartwarming that you and your wife are taking an interest in the child's situation. Juvi justice in the US (assuming you are in the US) is usually no justice at all.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 7:38 PM on November 21, 2005