When to Contact Owner About Questionable Property Manager
January 29, 2015 9:30 AM Subscribe
About a month ago, my wife and I were very interested in renting a townhouse in a nearby neighborhood that is very appealing to us for a variety of reasons. It's been vacant since late August, and the advertised rent has dropped each month to (what we believe) is now slightly below market value. On the day of the showing, we made an offer to sign a two-year lease -- something the owner clearly preferred per his advertisement -- and we are otherwise model tenants with great references and stable incomes. The one caveat was that we need to give our current landlord 60 days' notice (or potentially forfeit the next two months' rent). The property manager for the new place refused the offer outright, stating that she was only interested in prospective tenants who could move in immediately. When I asked if this was the owner's stipulation or hers, she refused to answer. Given that the house has been empty for nearly 5 months and my general knowledge of the economic incentives that apply to property management companies, I suspect the owner might be unaware of this behavior. He is a stranger to me. Should I let him know?
I am aware that property management companies generally get a chunk (or entire) first month's rent, plus a percentage of the monthly rent thereafter, so there is an incentive for them to rent NOW for their own cash-flow purposes. I think this can occasionally come into conflict with the landlord's greater goal, which is to have guaranteed long-term, good tenants, even if it means having an empty property for a month or two. Since the property manager gets a monthly percentage in any event, it stands to reason that she would prefer to gamble and hope to get a renter sooner rather than later, so she can get her paycheck more quickly and start getting the monthly chunk earlier. As far as I can tell, she has no imediate financial interest in securing a "stable" long-term tenant -- an interest that most landlords most certainly DO have.
I made what I thought was a good offer, given that the place had been vacant so long (it was initially overpriced, and now it's wintertime -- a bad time for showing rental properties in my neck of the woods). Knowing that they'd have to wait two months for me to begin the lease, I offered slightly more than the owner was asking, plus a commitment to stay a minimum of two years, with the strong likelihood of re-upping. Again, since this place has been vacant so long, it seems like this would be an offer worth considering if I were a landlord trying to rent my house in the dead of winter. But the property manager was adamant that we were out of the running unless we could start the lease immediately (or within a week). This approach put me off, and she was otherwise very hurried and unprofessional (arrived at the showing late, kept talking about other people who were interested in the place and how "wealthy" they were). We left, and I told her to give me a call if she changed her mind.
As a tenant, I've dealt with deadbeat property managers over the years and this one seemed like a real stinker, so we decided that even if she did call us back, we weren't interested in renting from a property management company such as this one. However, I was left wondering whether the owner is aware that the management company is negotiating this way on his behalf, and also whether he is aware that it might be the company's unprofessional demeanor that could be contributing to home's extended vacancy. I can imagine a lot of people could be turned off by property manager's extreme hard-sell tactics that were more reminiscent of a used car lot than an upscale townhome community.
I don't know the owner, but he is easily google-able and I could shoot him a quick e-mail to let him know that we made an offer on his rental but were turned down flat by his property manager. Could be that he get annoyed because part of the reason he hires a management company is to not get emails from strangers about his house, perhaps he'll say "those were my instructions to the company," or he might just be floored that his company is behaving this way.
Any owners out there who have used property management companies -- would you want to hear about this kind of stuff or just be left alone?
I am aware that property management companies generally get a chunk (or entire) first month's rent, plus a percentage of the monthly rent thereafter, so there is an incentive for them to rent NOW for their own cash-flow purposes. I think this can occasionally come into conflict with the landlord's greater goal, which is to have guaranteed long-term, good tenants, even if it means having an empty property for a month or two. Since the property manager gets a monthly percentage in any event, it stands to reason that she would prefer to gamble and hope to get a renter sooner rather than later, so she can get her paycheck more quickly and start getting the monthly chunk earlier. As far as I can tell, she has no imediate financial interest in securing a "stable" long-term tenant -- an interest that most landlords most certainly DO have.
I made what I thought was a good offer, given that the place had been vacant so long (it was initially overpriced, and now it's wintertime -- a bad time for showing rental properties in my neck of the woods). Knowing that they'd have to wait two months for me to begin the lease, I offered slightly more than the owner was asking, plus a commitment to stay a minimum of two years, with the strong likelihood of re-upping. Again, since this place has been vacant so long, it seems like this would be an offer worth considering if I were a landlord trying to rent my house in the dead of winter. But the property manager was adamant that we were out of the running unless we could start the lease immediately (or within a week). This approach put me off, and she was otherwise very hurried and unprofessional (arrived at the showing late, kept talking about other people who were interested in the place and how "wealthy" they were). We left, and I told her to give me a call if she changed her mind.
As a tenant, I've dealt with deadbeat property managers over the years and this one seemed like a real stinker, so we decided that even if she did call us back, we weren't interested in renting from a property management company such as this one. However, I was left wondering whether the owner is aware that the management company is negotiating this way on his behalf, and also whether he is aware that it might be the company's unprofessional demeanor that could be contributing to home's extended vacancy. I can imagine a lot of people could be turned off by property manager's extreme hard-sell tactics that were more reminiscent of a used car lot than an upscale townhome community.
I don't know the owner, but he is easily google-able and I could shoot him a quick e-mail to let him know that we made an offer on his rental but were turned down flat by his property manager. Could be that he get annoyed because part of the reason he hires a management company is to not get emails from strangers about his house, perhaps he'll say "those were my instructions to the company," or he might just be floored that his company is behaving this way.
Any owners out there who have used property management companies -- would you want to hear about this kind of stuff or just be left alone?
You have nothing to lose by doing this. Just don't be surprised if nothing happens.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:36 AM on January 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:36 AM on January 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you don't do this, who will? Maybe you will motivate the owners to find a different property manager, or keep a closer watch on the current ones, and their eventual tenant will benefit. Maybe you will have some subtle negative effect that I'm not imagining right now. Maybe you will be ignored and have no effect at all. However, I think the potential rewards outweigh the risks here.
posted by amtho at 9:37 AM on January 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by amtho at 9:37 AM on January 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Honestly, if I were the owner and got an email like that, I'd be even less likely to want to rent to you because I'd assume that you would do similar things throughout the duration of the two-year lease, emailing or calling me when you didn't get an immediate response or didn't like the response you got from my property manager.
What I'd suggest you do is very politely ask the property manager to ask the owner if they would be open to it. If you really want the place, you could even offer a modest increase in rent to sweeten the deal.
posted by arnicae at 9:38 AM on January 29, 2015 [15 favorites]
What I'd suggest you do is very politely ask the property manager to ask the owner if they would be open to it. If you really want the place, you could even offer a modest increase in rent to sweeten the deal.
posted by arnicae at 9:38 AM on January 29, 2015 [15 favorites]
I can't quite tell whether your end goal here is "Property owner fires property managers and rents to me" or "I'm not interested in this property now, regardless, but want to alert the owner to this issue." If the former, I would not waste my time and would just move on to looking for a better rental situation. If the latter, I think a quick email is totally fine (just don't necessarily expect a response).
posted by rainbowbrite at 9:44 AM on January 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rainbowbrite at 9:44 AM on January 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Dear Owner,
My wife and I were once very interested renting your property at blah blah blah. We did put in an offer that was not amenable to the management company (we need 60 days notice and they required immediate move-in.) We are fine with the outcome.
I'm writing because even if our offer had been accepted, we would have decided not to sign a lease due to the unprofessionalism of the management company. XYZ happened, and these examples are not reflective of a well-run town home community.
I'm not sure if the feedback is useful in any way, but our experience was so outside the norm for the quality and price point of the property, I felt compelled to let you know what we experienced.
Regards,
OP"
posted by jbenben at 9:54 AM on January 29, 2015 [15 favorites]
My wife and I were once very interested renting your property at blah blah blah. We did put in an offer that was not amenable to the management company (we need 60 days notice and they required immediate move-in.) We are fine with the outcome.
I'm writing because even if our offer had been accepted, we would have decided not to sign a lease due to the unprofessionalism of the management company. XYZ happened, and these examples are not reflective of a well-run town home community.
I'm not sure if the feedback is useful in any way, but our experience was so outside the norm for the quality and price point of the property, I felt compelled to let you know what we experienced.
Regards,
OP"
posted by jbenben at 9:54 AM on January 29, 2015 [15 favorites]
Also, this property is no longer available to you once you write this email. If there was nothing about your application that would cause the management company to discourage you (sloppy personal presentation, unstable employment, large unruly pets, etc.,) then I think it is perfectly OK to say what your experience was.
For the record, you do not not not want to live in a poorly managed property. It is the pits. You should only reconsider this place in the future if the management changes.
I'm curious why you would want to lock yourself into a 2 year lease with an entity that will give you nothing but headaches? I think you have to assume the owner doesn't care and is a POS like the management company, but on the off chance the owner is not a dysfunctional human being, it was nice of you to alert him/her to this issue.
posted by jbenben at 10:01 AM on January 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
For the record, you do not not not want to live in a poorly managed property. It is the pits. You should only reconsider this place in the future if the management changes.
I'm curious why you would want to lock yourself into a 2 year lease with an entity that will give you nothing but headaches? I think you have to assume the owner doesn't care and is a POS like the management company, but on the off chance the owner is not a dysfunctional human being, it was nice of you to alert him/her to this issue.
posted by jbenben at 10:01 AM on January 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
As a (new) landlord who had a terrible experience with a property management company, I would 100% absolutely have wanted to hear from a prospective tenant that they jerked around. (Which they probably did, because they were certainly jerking me around.) If you have access to that contact info, I'd say go for it - although if you don't, the management company is deeply unlikely to put you in contact.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:03 AM on January 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 10:03 AM on January 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?
I'd email the owner and say:
Dear Landlord:
Pursuant to our viewing of 123 Main Street, as we indicted to your property manager at the time, we would be happy to rent your townhouse on a two-year lease for $X,000 per month, but we would need to give 60 days notice on our current rental.
I understand from Manager Name that you are not interested in a wait of that period at this time, but if you change your mind, we'd appreciate it if you contacted us at (000) 555-1212.
Leave all the stuff about the property manager's mediocre performance out of it, and thereby leave the door open to the landlord coming back to you with a compromise or just flat out agreement.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:11 AM on January 29, 2015 [14 favorites]
I'd email the owner and say:
Dear Landlord:
Pursuant to our viewing of 123 Main Street, as we indicted to your property manager at the time, we would be happy to rent your townhouse on a two-year lease for $X,000 per month, but we would need to give 60 days notice on our current rental.
I understand from Manager Name that you are not interested in a wait of that period at this time, but if you change your mind, we'd appreciate it if you contacted us at (000) 555-1212.
Leave all the stuff about the property manager's mediocre performance out of it, and thereby leave the door open to the landlord coming back to you with a compromise or just flat out agreement.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:11 AM on January 29, 2015 [14 favorites]
Any chance the property management company has a Yelp listing or similar? I have left this kind of feedback there for current/future landlords and tenants to see, and I think that is much less invasive than emailing someone who never gave you their contact information and presumably uses a property manager to avoid just this kind of contact.
posted by juliplease at 10:27 AM on January 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by juliplease at 10:27 AM on January 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
I get that you're upset and hurt by this, but this all seems like unnecessary drama. You could spend the time looking for a new place to live instead of trying to get the manager fired. The manager will probably have a cover his/her ass story anyway.
posted by discopolo at 10:39 AM on January 29, 2015
posted by discopolo at 10:39 AM on January 29, 2015
If a prospective tenant went around my property manager to try to change my rules, I would not rent to them (I had a couple bad experiences with tenants who thought leases only mattered when it did not interfere with their desire to behave contrary to significant lease terms). Basically, I could have written this:
"Honestly, if I were the owner and got an email like that, I'd be even less likely to want to rent to you because I'd assume that you would do similar things throughout the duration of the two-year lease, emailing or calling me when you didn't get an immediate response or didn't like the response you got from my property manager."
Since you're already in the position of not being able to lease the townhouse, you don't have anything to lose by contacting the landlord directly and being turned down again as renters. I still would not do it, however, because your disagreement with how the agent treated your offer to move in eight weeks from now is highly unlikely to matter to the landlord. You have no idea how long they've worked together, or how many properties this company manages for this owner, or what terms the owner told the manager she would or would not accept. Your perception of the transaction, of the property's value sitting unleased, and of the wisdom of not accepting a two month delay in moving it is very unlikely to sway the owner.
If you contact the owner, and the property manager is doing her job as intended, you're in the same position you are now (not being able to rent the place). If the property management is terrible and the owner lets you lease the place anyway--without changing property managers--you could be in for an unpleasant tenancy.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:42 AM on January 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Honestly, if I were the owner and got an email like that, I'd be even less likely to want to rent to you because I'd assume that you would do similar things throughout the duration of the two-year lease, emailing or calling me when you didn't get an immediate response or didn't like the response you got from my property manager."
Since you're already in the position of not being able to lease the townhouse, you don't have anything to lose by contacting the landlord directly and being turned down again as renters. I still would not do it, however, because your disagreement with how the agent treated your offer to move in eight weeks from now is highly unlikely to matter to the landlord. You have no idea how long they've worked together, or how many properties this company manages for this owner, or what terms the owner told the manager she would or would not accept. Your perception of the transaction, of the property's value sitting unleased, and of the wisdom of not accepting a two month delay in moving it is very unlikely to sway the owner.
If you contact the owner, and the property manager is doing her job as intended, you're in the same position you are now (not being able to rent the place). If the property management is terrible and the owner lets you lease the place anyway--without changing property managers--you could be in for an unpleasant tenancy.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:42 AM on January 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's extremely not unheard-of to want to have the apartment filled in the next few days instead of 60 days from now. They're not responsible for you getting out of your 60 days notice clause without having to pay a fee. If this makes the property manager questionable, then I guess every property manager (save for maybe one) that I've ever dealt with in a decade or so has been, as well.
posted by destructive cactus at 11:25 AM on January 29, 2015
posted by destructive cactus at 11:25 AM on January 29, 2015
I believe you absolutely should contact the owner.
Not least because in my opinion there's a non-trivial possibility the property manager has someone waiting in the wings who might be interested in buying a property at prices an individual owner could be induced to accept after failing to rent their place for an extended period.
Big investors often own thousands of rental properties in a given geographical area and commonly hire local firms to manage them.
How better, if you were such an investor, to find properties to buy than from tips about other properties managed by your own property manager?
posted by jamjam at 11:33 AM on January 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not least because in my opinion there's a non-trivial possibility the property manager has someone waiting in the wings who might be interested in buying a property at prices an individual owner could be induced to accept after failing to rent their place for an extended period.
Big investors often own thousands of rental properties in a given geographical area and commonly hire local firms to manage them.
How better, if you were such an investor, to find properties to buy than from tips about other properties managed by your own property manager?
posted by jamjam at 11:33 AM on January 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Holding the place for two months is virtually the equivalent of two months rent. So you're basically asking someone that you've never met to give you something that is fairly expensive for free, in exchange for some future promises.
So 99% of the time the realistic answer to this polite request is NO-THANK-YOU.
The person who said this in this case was tardy and kinda rude.
I expect a basic level of politeness in most of my day to day interactions, but in dealing with potential landlords and such my expectations are usually lower.
posted by ovvl at 1:41 PM on January 29, 2015
So 99% of the time the realistic answer to this polite request is NO-THANK-YOU.
The person who said this in this case was tardy and kinda rude.
I expect a basic level of politeness in most of my day to day interactions, but in dealing with potential landlords and such my expectations are usually lower.
posted by ovvl at 1:41 PM on January 29, 2015
For the record, you do not not not want to live in a poorly managed property. It is the pits. You should only reconsider this place in the future if the management changes.
i'm just restating this because i wish someone had burned this in to my brain clockwork orange style.
i spent a couple years living in the freaking coolest place, in a perfect location, with awesome neighbors(for the most part)... and terrible management.
0/10 would not do again worse than dental work.
For what it's worth, i don't think saying no to them not wanting to wait 60 days is unprofessional. The rest of the behavior is, and is crappy. But that's totally not weird. I've paid rent at two places at once to get around this before because i could burn some savings. Why would they sit on a place for two months, unpaid, just to be convenient to you? If you're interested, someone else WILL come along, and it likely will be sooner than in two months.
This is a lot like having someone hold something they're selling until you get paid. There's no material benefit to them, and someone else will come along sooner anyways more than likely. It sucks when you're the one who really wants it and they say no, but they're not being unprofessional or unreasonable. You can't really roll that in with their other weird/vaguely crappy behavior.
posted by emptythought at 2:16 PM on January 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
i'm just restating this because i wish someone had burned this in to my brain clockwork orange style.
i spent a couple years living in the freaking coolest place, in a perfect location, with awesome neighbors(for the most part)... and terrible management.
0/10 would not do again worse than dental work.
For what it's worth, i don't think saying no to them not wanting to wait 60 days is unprofessional. The rest of the behavior is, and is crappy. But that's totally not weird. I've paid rent at two places at once to get around this before because i could burn some savings. Why would they sit on a place for two months, unpaid, just to be convenient to you? If you're interested, someone else WILL come along, and it likely will be sooner than in two months.
This is a lot like having someone hold something they're selling until you get paid. There's no material benefit to them, and someone else will come along sooner anyways more than likely. It sucks when you're the one who really wants it and they say no, but they're not being unprofessional or unreasonable. You can't really roll that in with their other weird/vaguely crappy behavior.
posted by emptythought at 2:16 PM on January 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
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The reason landlords use property managers is so that they don't have to deal with tenants. What you are proposing is even worse than having to deal with tenants - it's having to deal with complete strangers.
If I received an email like that, I'd almost definitely just ignore it and it would definitely not help out your case. You should always feel free to email someone exactly once. However, you seem to think you'll get a response because you were somehow wronged. You were not wronged, and I don't think you will get a response.
It's time for you to drop this and focus your efforts on finding a different place to live. The way you're considering heading is not worth your time.
posted by saeculorum at 9:34 AM on January 29, 2015 [1 favorite]