how to help someone out of an abusive situation.
January 25, 2015 5:53 PM Subscribe
So, I started dating a strong, motivated, wonderful woman a 8 months ago. we went official and the nightmare begun.
She has a wonderful daughter with her ex, they broke up 2,5 years ago roughly, and as it turns out, her first relationship afterwards tanked because of his calls that came in every other day where he's very verbally abusive, calling her names, pushing her wish for a core family etc.
this behaviour has begun again.
(disclaimer: this is not about me or my feelings.)
so looking back the past six months since we became an official item, he's called her every other day, putting her down and being abusive. I've been very supportive of her through all of this but she's gone back to him three times due to feeling so fatigued that if she just gives him one more chance he'll change.
i've read all the threads on abusive relationships and i feel i have an inkling of the mechanisms involved.
Now the systematic abuse she was put through that led to the breakup in the first place is that he:
* was very verbally abusive
* slapped her around
now during our time together and from what i've understood from her other relationship after the breakup is that he calls her and is very verbally abusive, and when her mother has tried to talk to her about this, she says that they have a "special bond" together that nobody understands.
the ex is basically, behaviour wise, a carbon copy of her father.
as long as she does what he wants, when he wants, she's free from it, but as soon as .. yes well.
she has a few triggers that i've noticed these include the wish for a core family i.e the ex, herself and the daughter. that she thinks he's willing to change because he's being nice towards her.
multiple times when it has been his week to have the kid he's called her during the day and yelled at her, she's put it on speakerphone and i've heard the daughter screaming and crying in the background.
Things got really bad around new years eve when he called her drunk, telling her that if she didnt leave me he had lawyer friends who had told him that he could get full custody of the kid, and that he will, if she doesnt leave me.
And that if I didnt leave that night, before morning, he would come and take the kid.
well, she didnt want me to leave, so I stayed, he didn't come at the time he said so i went out to get some lunch for us, when i came back i saw his car driving away.
he had amongst other things frightened her to her core by yelling obscenities and planted a foot through the door.
she's been in contact with the domestic abuse hotline, with the police, with a secret swedish forum for victims of domestic abuse.
then he started putting her down again a day later, telling her that he knows she's mentally ill and will do anything to keep the kid away from her.
i've put my lawyers at her disposal so she knows that he's facing prisontime for his actions if she decides to press charges, and that he doesnt have a legal leg to stand on with his threats.
she still hasnt pressed charges.
she has also now gone back to him again, the motivation being "i cant make him understand what i'm saying, so i have to show him that we dont work in a relationship"
he has already lied to her about going to anger management (he's not, i checked up on where he says he's going, and it's just a MRA holdout coffeeshop org)
she tells me she loves me, she keeps texting me every day, i've made it clear to her that i love her daughter and her unconditionally and will be there for them no matter what.
she also drops by from time to time (pre-announced) since she feels safe around/with me.
we have an agreed upon keyword she can text me if things get threatening.
I have also been told by her that she needs me, that she feels she's just hurting me and wants to let me go, etc etc.
i'm not looking to win this for myself since at this point i'm not selfish enough to think of a relationship.
i'm looking to get her daughter and her out of this cycle of abuse so that they can get a semblance of normalcy and I need concrete tips on how I can accomplish this for them.
so looking back the past six months since we became an official item, he's called her every other day, putting her down and being abusive. I've been very supportive of her through all of this but she's gone back to him three times due to feeling so fatigued that if she just gives him one more chance he'll change.
i've read all the threads on abusive relationships and i feel i have an inkling of the mechanisms involved.
Now the systematic abuse she was put through that led to the breakup in the first place is that he:
* was very verbally abusive
* slapped her around
now during our time together and from what i've understood from her other relationship after the breakup is that he calls her and is very verbally abusive, and when her mother has tried to talk to her about this, she says that they have a "special bond" together that nobody understands.
the ex is basically, behaviour wise, a carbon copy of her father.
as long as she does what he wants, when he wants, she's free from it, but as soon as .. yes well.
she has a few triggers that i've noticed these include the wish for a core family i.e the ex, herself and the daughter. that she thinks he's willing to change because he's being nice towards her.
multiple times when it has been his week to have the kid he's called her during the day and yelled at her, she's put it on speakerphone and i've heard the daughter screaming and crying in the background.
Things got really bad around new years eve when he called her drunk, telling her that if she didnt leave me he had lawyer friends who had told him that he could get full custody of the kid, and that he will, if she doesnt leave me.
And that if I didnt leave that night, before morning, he would come and take the kid.
well, she didnt want me to leave, so I stayed, he didn't come at the time he said so i went out to get some lunch for us, when i came back i saw his car driving away.
he had amongst other things frightened her to her core by yelling obscenities and planted a foot through the door.
she's been in contact with the domestic abuse hotline, with the police, with a secret swedish forum for victims of domestic abuse.
then he started putting her down again a day later, telling her that he knows she's mentally ill and will do anything to keep the kid away from her.
i've put my lawyers at her disposal so she knows that he's facing prisontime for his actions if she decides to press charges, and that he doesnt have a legal leg to stand on with his threats.
she still hasnt pressed charges.
she has also now gone back to him again, the motivation being "i cant make him understand what i'm saying, so i have to show him that we dont work in a relationship"
he has already lied to her about going to anger management (he's not, i checked up on where he says he's going, and it's just a MRA holdout coffeeshop org)
she tells me she loves me, she keeps texting me every day, i've made it clear to her that i love her daughter and her unconditionally and will be there for them no matter what.
she also drops by from time to time (pre-announced) since she feels safe around/with me.
we have an agreed upon keyword she can text me if things get threatening.
I have also been told by her that she needs me, that she feels she's just hurting me and wants to let me go, etc etc.
i'm not looking to win this for myself since at this point i'm not selfish enough to think of a relationship.
i'm looking to get her daughter and her out of this cycle of abuse so that they can get a semblance of normalcy and I need concrete tips on how I can accomplish this for them.
I think it's her life and not your place to teach lessons. The best you can do is tell her to seek therapy and also give her the names of battered women's shelters.
Other than that, unless you have a desire for instability and are willing to become resentful towards her, I can't say there really is much you can do. You've done a lot. She should have gotten a police order against the ex but she doesn't seem interested in protecting herself or her daughters, even though she has your lawyers at her disposal.
posted by discopolo at 6:00 PM on January 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Other than that, unless you have a desire for instability and are willing to become resentful towards her, I can't say there really is much you can do. You've done a lot. She should have gotten a police order against the ex but she doesn't seem interested in protecting herself or her daughters, even though she has your lawyers at her disposal.
posted by discopolo at 6:00 PM on January 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Why won't she call the police after he threatens her?
posted by discopolo at 6:01 PM on January 25, 2015
posted by discopolo at 6:01 PM on January 25, 2015
Response by poster: it's because according to her, that she grew up without her father and she doesnt want that for her kid.
which i realise is a lame excuse, but the thing is, getting out from under this type of situation is a process for the people involved.
posted by xcasex at 6:03 PM on January 25, 2015
which i realise is a lame excuse, but the thing is, getting out from under this type of situation is a process for the people involved.
posted by xcasex at 6:03 PM on January 25, 2015
And, to be honest, there's no future with your relationship with her. She really needs to sort herself out. In the meantime, maybe reporting the father for emotional and psychological abuse to child protective services may help at least the child, who needs to be away from that danger.
I've read too many sad "father kills the whole family to punish mom" stuff. The kid needs to be protected from bad decisions & fanciful thinking of mom that this guy is safe to be around.
posted by discopolo at 6:05 PM on January 25, 2015 [23 favorites]
I've read too many sad "father kills the whole family to punish mom" stuff. The kid needs to be protected from bad decisions & fanciful thinking of mom that this guy is safe to be around.
posted by discopolo at 6:05 PM on January 25, 2015 [23 favorites]
Can you just confirm this is all taking place in Sweden, so people don't bombard you with resources?
i'm looking to get her daughter and her out of this cycle of abuse so that they can get a semblance of normalcy and I need concrete tips on how I can accomplish this for them.
Short of kidnapping them, you can't. In order to help someone out of an abusive situation, they have to want help. Sometimes you can help them get ready to take that step, but you have to meet them where they are. You can ask her, for example, what she thinks she's teaching her daughter about relationships, etc but that is a very slow and gentle path to go down.
Abuse is an extremely complex dynamic (questions like "Why won't she call the police after he threatens her?" are common) and this woman sounds deeply entrenched. Realistically, I think this is probably way above your pay grade and you should consult a licensed professional with a speciality in mental health so you have an educated ally if you intend to stick with this.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:06 PM on January 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
i'm looking to get her daughter and her out of this cycle of abuse so that they can get a semblance of normalcy and I need concrete tips on how I can accomplish this for them.
Short of kidnapping them, you can't. In order to help someone out of an abusive situation, they have to want help. Sometimes you can help them get ready to take that step, but you have to meet them where they are. You can ask her, for example, what she thinks she's teaching her daughter about relationships, etc but that is a very slow and gentle path to go down.
Abuse is an extremely complex dynamic (questions like "Why won't she call the police after he threatens her?" are common) and this woman sounds deeply entrenched. Realistically, I think this is probably way above your pay grade and you should consult a licensed professional with a speciality in mental health so you have an educated ally if you intend to stick with this.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:06 PM on January 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: like i said above, i have no interest in a relationship at this point.
and cps doesnt work in that manner in sweden.
and i agree.
posted by xcasex at 6:07 PM on January 25, 2015
and cps doesnt work in that manner in sweden.
and i agree.
posted by xcasex at 6:07 PM on January 25, 2015
Look, this is a no win for you, back away. She keeps going back to him despite being in a relationship with you.
She knows this is bad but she stays for her daughter, allegedly.
Put her in touch with resources and back away.
posted by k8t at 6:07 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
She knows this is bad but she stays for her daughter, allegedly.
Put her in touch with resources and back away.
posted by k8t at 6:07 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: this is happening in sweden, yes.
Look, this is a no win for you, back away.
i'm well and thouroughly backed away and have told her i view us as friends. nothing more, so reread the post as i have no intention of restating my interest here.
posted by xcasex at 6:09 PM on January 25, 2015
Look, this is a no win for you, back away.
i'm well and thouroughly backed away and have told her i view us as friends. nothing more, so reread the post as i have no intention of restating my interest here.
posted by xcasex at 6:09 PM on January 25, 2015
it's because according to her, that she grew up without her father and she doesnt want that for her kid.
It sounds like you're willing to step in and act like a father for her daughter -- does she know you're serious about that?
posted by Jacqueline at 6:09 PM on January 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you're willing to step in and act like a father for her daughter -- does she know you're serious about that?
posted by Jacqueline at 6:09 PM on January 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: It sounds like you're willing to step in and act like a father for her daughter -- does she know you're serious about that?
Yep, she does. and on top of it she keeps reiterating things like "good god, you're such a good person" "i feel so safe with you i get afraid" and things like that.
posted by xcasex at 6:11 PM on January 25, 2015
Yep, she does. and on top of it she keeps reiterating things like "good god, you're such a good person" "i feel so safe with you i get afraid" and things like that.
posted by xcasex at 6:11 PM on January 25, 2015
If there isn't child protective services, can't you alert her school or the local police or whoever deals with that kind of thing with your concerns in Sweden? Because that kid shouldn't be dealing with that kind of volatility.
posted by discopolo at 6:12 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by discopolo at 6:12 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
All of your phrasing until the end when you talk about being selfish sounds like you're currently in a relationship with her. There is no past tense at all. And even the selfish part, to me, read something like "I'm not doing this just because I want to have sex with this woman." In your follow ups you were clearer, but please understand that your phrasing and choice of verb tense read differently.
posted by k8t at 6:14 PM on January 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by k8t at 6:14 PM on January 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: If there isn't child protective services, can't you alert her school or the local police or whoever deals with that kind of thing with your concerns in Sweden? Because that kid shouldn't be dealing with that kind of volatility.
consulting my ex-wife who work at the local CPS, the consequence will be loss of both parents to the system.
this is also something that she will view as a betrayal from my side.
posted by xcasex at 6:15 PM on January 25, 2015
consulting my ex-wife who work at the local CPS, the consequence will be loss of both parents to the system.
this is also something that she will view as a betrayal from my side.
posted by xcasex at 6:15 PM on January 25, 2015
Kid's safety comes before anyone's sense of betrayal, sorry.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 6:18 PM on January 25, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 6:18 PM on January 25, 2015 [16 favorites]
Response by poster: Kid's safety comes before anyone's sense of betrayal, sorry.
ah yes, i fully agree.
but the steps are:
1) investigation by social service
2) investigation by the CPS
3) investigation by the police
4) action.
so what happens is that the betrayal bond between them will more than likely put them both in a defensive cocoon.
which will make it all a anonymous said, they said.
posted by xcasex at 6:20 PM on January 25, 2015
ah yes, i fully agree.
but the steps are:
1) investigation by social service
2) investigation by the CPS
3) investigation by the police
4) action.
so what happens is that the betrayal bond between them will more than likely put them both in a defensive cocoon.
which will make it all a anonymous said, they said.
posted by xcasex at 6:20 PM on January 25, 2015
Mod note: xcasex, this is not the place for back and forth. Please just let people answer - you do not need to respond to everyone.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:23 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:23 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
so what happens is that the betrayal bond between them will more than likely put them both in a defensive cocoon
Well, so what? If you're trying to help protect this child, you need to step up (by reporting the situation) and then step back. Adults are free to fuck up their lives however they want to but they have no right to abuse a child (even if it's 'passive' abuse by non-action by the mother).
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 6:46 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well, so what? If you're trying to help protect this child, you need to step up (by reporting the situation) and then step back. Adults are free to fuck up their lives however they want to but they have no right to abuse a child (even if it's 'passive' abuse by non-action by the mother).
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 6:46 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's 2015. She must have caller ID of some sort. She keeps making a choice, over and over again, to answer the phone when she sees his number.
This is only going to end when she stops making that choice. I don't know if you can make her stop making that choice.
posted by Hypatia at 6:53 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is only going to end when she stops making that choice. I don't know if you can make her stop making that choice.
posted by Hypatia at 6:53 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Is there the equivalent of CODA (Codependents Anonymous) in Sweden? If so, that might be one option for trying to sort through why you're so invested in "saving" this woman despite her repeatedly stated wishes (both in actions and in words) to the contrary.
She clearly "wants" to be with her ex right now. (If he's a carbon copy of her father, that's more than understandable.) It's horrifying and sad and not really her fault, but the central decision to end the abuse has to come from her. Any resources you give her, any shoulder you provide to cry on, any relationship yoyoing you allow her to do, any "unconditional support" you provide, just seem likely to prolong the situation and interfere with the organic process of her coming to grips with this on her own. Think of the parents of a drug addict who do a lot of hand-wringing and lecturing about his bad choices, but still keep giving him pocket-money and letting him sleep in the basement: is that really helping?
posted by Bardolph at 6:57 PM on January 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
She clearly "wants" to be with her ex right now. (If he's a carbon copy of her father, that's more than understandable.) It's horrifying and sad and not really her fault, but the central decision to end the abuse has to come from her. Any resources you give her, any shoulder you provide to cry on, any relationship yoyoing you allow her to do, any "unconditional support" you provide, just seem likely to prolong the situation and interfere with the organic process of her coming to grips with this on her own. Think of the parents of a drug addict who do a lot of hand-wringing and lecturing about his bad choices, but still keep giving him pocket-money and letting him sleep in the basement: is that really helping?
posted by Bardolph at 6:57 PM on January 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Look, I know this is going to sound harsh, but I get a strong whiff of "I want to save this damsel in distress" which frankly is a selfish point of view. And you know, it's normal to have the desire to save someone you love who is hurting, but you can't unilaterally save her. I know it's incredibly maddening and heart-rending when someone you care about goes back to an abuser, but she is an adult of sound mind and this is her decision to make. She has resources, she has you, she has her mother - you can't force her to leave him.
However, the child is a different matter. She did not make this choice. Her welfare - not how your ex-girlfriend will feel about you - should be paramount. If there's anything you can do within the system to get that child into a safer situation, then you (or ideally, the child's grandmother) should do it.
posted by lunasol at 7:02 PM on January 25, 2015 [19 favorites]
However, the child is a different matter. She did not make this choice. Her welfare - not how your ex-girlfriend will feel about you - should be paramount. If there's anything you can do within the system to get that child into a safer situation, then you (or ideally, the child's grandmother) should do it.
posted by lunasol at 7:02 PM on January 25, 2015 [19 favorites]
You're playing into this drama and should extricate yourself from the situation. Until your friend/girlfriend/unclearexactlywhatyourrelationshipisperson decides for herself she does not want the abuse in her and her child's life there is nothing you can do to stop it. She has to choose to want it to stop by, for example, not answering his phone calls for you or anyone else to be able to help.
Until and unless that happens you need to back away. I don't think you are doing anybody any favors, including yourself, by helping-but-not-really.
posted by Justinian at 7:07 PM on January 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
Until and unless that happens you need to back away. I don't think you are doing anybody any favors, including yourself, by helping-but-not-really.
posted by Justinian at 7:07 PM on January 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
Kid's safety comes before anyone's sense of betrayal, sorry.
This. Ensure the child is as safe as you can by alerting the appropriate authorities and giving whatever evidence you have. Then inform the mother that it is her problem to deal with, give her numbers for resources, and wash your hands of the situation. At some point, the mother is responsible for her own choices. Abuse is grim and awful, and this guy sounds like a dangerous piece of work, and rescuing her is not your responsibility. Tell her when and if she breaks the cycle she is welcome to contact you to re-establish a friendship. But right now, you're enabling the cycle.
Make sure the kid has your number memorized and knows they can call in an emergency, anytime, and you will make sure the police/authorities come and make her safe.
That's all you can do.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:57 PM on January 25, 2015 [7 favorites]
This. Ensure the child is as safe as you can by alerting the appropriate authorities and giving whatever evidence you have. Then inform the mother that it is her problem to deal with, give her numbers for resources, and wash your hands of the situation. At some point, the mother is responsible for her own choices. Abuse is grim and awful, and this guy sounds like a dangerous piece of work, and rescuing her is not your responsibility. Tell her when and if she breaks the cycle she is welcome to contact you to re-establish a friendship. But right now, you're enabling the cycle.
Make sure the kid has your number memorized and knows they can call in an emergency, anytime, and you will make sure the police/authorities come and make her safe.
That's all you can do.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:57 PM on January 25, 2015 [7 favorites]
I don't think people here understand that once the daughter is taken away by CPS in Sweden, she's not likely to ever be released back into either parent's care.
Erm, your girlfriend is really unwell. This is not about abuse and the ex, her whole perspective is warped. She's pretty much never ever going to take any opportunity you give her. She can't see you. What you are offering literally does not register upon her psyche.
I agree you need to enlist the help of a mental health professional. We are internet strangers and you have no reason to believe us.
As it is, this person is using you. That is not helping her, instead, it is enabling her twisted rationales concerning her safety and her ex.
Talk to professionals. This is above your pay grade. I'm sorry.
posted by jbenben at 8:27 PM on January 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
Erm, your girlfriend is really unwell. This is not about abuse and the ex, her whole perspective is warped. She's pretty much never ever going to take any opportunity you give her. She can't see you. What you are offering literally does not register upon her psyche.
I agree you need to enlist the help of a mental health professional. We are internet strangers and you have no reason to believe us.
As it is, this person is using you. That is not helping her, instead, it is enabling her twisted rationales concerning her safety and her ex.
Talk to professionals. This is above your pay grade. I'm sorry.
posted by jbenben at 8:27 PM on January 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
Prioritize the child's wellbeing. What the child is forced to witness and live with is unacceptable. Encourage your ex to get into intensive therapy. She's making horrible decisions and could benefit from help in moving forward in a more healthy manner.
posted by quince at 8:29 PM on January 25, 2015
posted by quince at 8:29 PM on January 25, 2015
I have absolutely no knowledge of Swedish custody law, but even if it's true that the child might end up taken away, is that worse than her being hurt or killed by abusive/abused parents?
I mean, those are both horrible choices. But one is clearly worse. I would not want to carry the guilt of something happening to her because I didn't report.
The mother is in a sad spot, but not ready to seek help.
The only other alternative I can think of would be to seek out whatever kinds of hotlines/support groups Sweden has and get more specific ideas for help.
posted by emjaybee at 8:40 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
I mean, those are both horrible choices. But one is clearly worse. I would not want to carry the guilt of something happening to her because I didn't report.
The mother is in a sad spot, but not ready to seek help.
The only other alternative I can think of would be to seek out whatever kinds of hotlines/support groups Sweden has and get more specific ideas for help.
posted by emjaybee at 8:40 PM on January 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Jesus, she wants that man in her child's life? What the hell is wrong with her? Obviously, if the child is screaming and crying in the background of a phone call, then something is definitely wrong here. I'm betting he abuses the child.
Somebody needs to sit her down and ask her some pressing questions. (not necessarily you)
You WANT your daughter to learn that that's how men are allowed to behave toward women? You want her to see her mother abused? That's just shitty. She needs to put on big girl panties and figure out how to get the bastard OUT of her daughter's life.
I feel for her. BUT. This woman needs some major therapy to get her shit straight.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:29 PM on January 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Somebody needs to sit her down and ask her some pressing questions. (not necessarily you)
You WANT your daughter to learn that that's how men are allowed to behave toward women? You want her to see her mother abused? That's just shitty. She needs to put on big girl panties and figure out how to get the bastard OUT of her daughter's life.
I feel for her. BUT. This woman needs some major therapy to get her shit straight.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:29 PM on January 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
You can't get her to leave until she decides she wants to. Many of us suffer while we watch someone suffer, but it's not under our control to separate her from him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 PM on January 25, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 PM on January 25, 2015
i'm looking to get her daughter and her out of this cycle of abuse so that they can get a semblance of normalcy and I need concrete tips on how I can accomplish this for them.
You can't help someone who doesn't want help. That is one of the painful lessons of growing up. As mentioned, you might be able to get CPS involved solely to help the child, but do so knowing you will have completely burned this bridge but may have saved a child from a life of misery.
posted by benzenedream at 10:42 PM on January 25, 2015
You can't help someone who doesn't want help. That is one of the painful lessons of growing up. As mentioned, you might be able to get CPS involved solely to help the child, but do so knowing you will have completely burned this bridge but may have saved a child from a life of misery.
posted by benzenedream at 10:42 PM on January 25, 2015
You have a choice: you "betray" this adult woman's trust in order to save her daughters (which in time she may actually come to view as positive for her children), or you betray the mental, emotional, moral, and physical lives of children who otherwise could have had healthier influences.
Have you tried phoning the Barnombudsmannen?
Have you spoken with your lawyers about this? What have they advised? If they're familiar with Swedish family law, they'll have seen similar situations and be able to advise as well.
This woman has repeatedly, willingly endangered her children. Granted, she is doing it from a warped viewpoint. However. Her children also need help. Her warped viewpoint is NOT allowing her to do that. Her children are priority.
FWIW I am saying this as the adult child of abusive parents. I cannot tell you how grateful I would have been had someone, anyone, "betrayed" my parents' trust in order to ensure my safety. It never happened.
Talk with the Barnombudsmannen. Talk with your lawyers. Make the focus how best to help these children, and do that. Maybe there is a way to have protective custody for them on condition of treatment for the mother. Even if not – please get official help for these children.
posted by fraula at 2:14 AM on January 26, 2015 [11 favorites]
Have you tried phoning the Barnombudsmannen?
Have you spoken with your lawyers about this? What have they advised? If they're familiar with Swedish family law, they'll have seen similar situations and be able to advise as well.
This woman has repeatedly, willingly endangered her children. Granted, she is doing it from a warped viewpoint. However. Her children also need help. Her warped viewpoint is NOT allowing her to do that. Her children are priority.
FWIW I am saying this as the adult child of abusive parents. I cannot tell you how grateful I would have been had someone, anyone, "betrayed" my parents' trust in order to ensure my safety. It never happened.
Talk with the Barnombudsmannen. Talk with your lawyers. Make the focus how best to help these children, and do that. Maybe there is a way to have protective custody for them on condition of treatment for the mother. Even if not – please get official help for these children.
posted by fraula at 2:14 AM on January 26, 2015 [11 favorites]
Oh boy. First of all, they're NOT broken up.
She's answering his phone calls and has gone back to him three times in six months. Three times in six months? They're still together.
With all respect, you've read threads about abusive relationships but it's clear that you have NO IDEA the mechanisms involved.
There is nothing, NOTHING that you can do to make her understand that he's abusive, she needs help, and this is every single possible kind of fucked up. Nothing. She needs to get there on her own. She is choosing to stay with this man. And of course it's horrible to be a bystander to this. But there's no new way to present the situation to her that's going to make her suddenly say, "What was I thinking? This guy is bad news and I need to protect myself and my daughter." That's the reality of abuse. It needs to get bad enough for her to leave. You've offered help; she doesn't want it. You can't force it upon her.
However. There's a kid involved in this clusterfuck. Do you want to help this kid? Then you contact the authorities. She may be taken from her mother and father? From your description, the father is abusive and the mother is continually exposing her daughter to the abuse. Your friend is NOT protecting her daughter. You've noted that this woman NEEDS HELP and is refusing it, continually putting her daughter in danger
I understand that you feel for her and it's horrible to be watching this situation, unable to help her see the light, but if you really want to help, then help the child by contacting the authorities.
posted by kinetic at 2:54 AM on January 26, 2015 [12 favorites]
She's answering his phone calls and has gone back to him three times in six months. Three times in six months? They're still together.
With all respect, you've read threads about abusive relationships but it's clear that you have NO IDEA the mechanisms involved.
There is nothing, NOTHING that you can do to make her understand that he's abusive, she needs help, and this is every single possible kind of fucked up. Nothing. She needs to get there on her own. She is choosing to stay with this man. And of course it's horrible to be a bystander to this. But there's no new way to present the situation to her that's going to make her suddenly say, "What was I thinking? This guy is bad news and I need to protect myself and my daughter." That's the reality of abuse. It needs to get bad enough for her to leave. You've offered help; she doesn't want it. You can't force it upon her.
However. There's a kid involved in this clusterfuck. Do you want to help this kid? Then you contact the authorities. She may be taken from her mother and father? From your description, the father is abusive and the mother is continually exposing her daughter to the abuse. Your friend is NOT protecting her daughter. You've noted that this woman NEEDS HELP and is refusing it, continually putting her daughter in danger
I understand that you feel for her and it's horrible to be watching this situation, unable to help her see the light, but if you really want to help, then help the child by contacting the authorities.
posted by kinetic at 2:54 AM on January 26, 2015 [12 favorites]
Agree with the advice above: be a hero for the child and call the authorities.
posted by rpfields at 3:24 AM on January 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by rpfields at 3:24 AM on January 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also, you say you want to step away from the drama and the relationship, but you're also willing to step in as a father to the kid. That means entrenching yourself in the relationship with pretty much a LIFETIME promise.
Listen, I know that you feel like you're in a crappy situation because you can't get her to see the light, but you're also presenting two contradictory endgames.
And you also followed (or checked up on) this guy to see if he was really going to anger management?
I mean this kindly. Contact the authorities to help this child, and cut this woman out of your life. It's hard and sad and terrible, but you were together for only 8 months and within those 8 months she left you 3 times to go back to him. This is not your problem.
posted by kinetic at 3:39 AM on January 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Listen, I know that you feel like you're in a crappy situation because you can't get her to see the light, but you're also presenting two contradictory endgames.
And you also followed (or checked up on) this guy to see if he was really going to anger management?
I mean this kindly. Contact the authorities to help this child, and cut this woman out of your life. It's hard and sad and terrible, but you were together for only 8 months and within those 8 months she left you 3 times to go back to him. This is not your problem.
posted by kinetic at 3:39 AM on January 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
In the past, I have been in a trauma bond with an abusive, predator-type person and I understand the brainwashing that is making your friend keep returning to her ex. When someone is fucking with your mind to that degree, you are not in your right mind. I wasn't. I can't speak to the kid situation because neither he nor I had any.
A number of friends told me they were concerned, then distanced themselves from me when I was in the relationship. This was the right thing to do -- for them, and for me. It was better for their own mental health, and it was a wake-up call for me. This is what you need to do.
But still call the authorities. It's not fair to the kids if you abandon them to this horror.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 3:49 AM on January 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
A number of friends told me they were concerned, then distanced themselves from me when I was in the relationship. This was the right thing to do -- for them, and for me. It was better for their own mental health, and it was a wake-up call for me. This is what you need to do.
But still call the authorities. It's not fair to the kids if you abandon them to this horror.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 3:49 AM on January 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
chiming in to say, call CPS and then mercifully just leave her alone. even if she left him tomorrow, she would still not be ready to be with you or date you, and she would not be likely to heed your advice about how to live her life.
posted by zdravo at 6:00 AM on January 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by zdravo at 6:00 AM on January 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think, if you're really worried about the kid's safety, you need to talk to your lawyers about what you can do to ensure the kid's safety. Then do it, and let the chips fall where they may.
Beyond that, you can't rescue this woman, and you should stop trying. She isn't ready to be saved. And incidentally, it sounds like you want to be in a relationship with this woman, and I'm not sure why you're denying that.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:37 AM on January 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Beyond that, you can't rescue this woman, and you should stop trying. She isn't ready to be saved. And incidentally, it sounds like you want to be in a relationship with this woman, and I'm not sure why you're denying that.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:37 AM on January 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
As a survivor of domestic violence myself here is my advice...
You are in this too deeply and have been involved for too long. Get out. Get COMPLETELY out. At this point, you can not be of any more help this woman or her child, but you can help yourself. Get a counselor to help you keep your resolve to stay away from this situation. No more ask mefi questions, no more phone calls or emails with her, really, seriously, MOVE ON. You can be most helpful now by donating time or money to a woman's shelter and getting yourself back to normal, healthy life.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 11:14 AM on January 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
You are in this too deeply and have been involved for too long. Get out. Get COMPLETELY out. At this point, you can not be of any more help this woman or her child, but you can help yourself. Get a counselor to help you keep your resolve to stay away from this situation. No more ask mefi questions, no more phone calls or emails with her, really, seriously, MOVE ON. You can be most helpful now by donating time or money to a woman's shelter and getting yourself back to normal, healthy life.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 11:14 AM on January 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think people here understand that once the daughter is taken away by CPS in Sweden, she's not likely to ever be released back into either parent's care.
Speaking only for myself, this fact changes nothing for me. The child is in an abusive home and that needs to be stopped.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:09 PM on January 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Speaking only for myself, this fact changes nothing for me. The child is in an abusive home and that needs to be stopped.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:09 PM on January 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: i'm looking to get her daughter and her out of this cycle of abuse so that they can get a semblance of normalcy
You realise your friends are saying the same thing about you right?
Your friend is being manipulated by her sometimes-boyfriend and your being manipulated by her. All the things you want her to do regarding gaining perspective, facing reality, not being a sucker and choosing a healthier relationship like a nice well adjusted adult are things you're not doing for yourself.
posted by fshgrl at 12:26 PM on January 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
You realise your friends are saying the same thing about you right?
Your friend is being manipulated by her sometimes-boyfriend and your being manipulated by her. All the things you want her to do regarding gaining perspective, facing reality, not being a sucker and choosing a healthier relationship like a nice well adjusted adult are things you're not doing for yourself.
posted by fshgrl at 12:26 PM on January 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: update:
he was arrested today.
posted by xcasex at 6:07 PM on January 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
he was arrested today.
posted by xcasex at 6:07 PM on January 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
update:
he was arrested today.
That's a bit cryptic. Well, now the authorities are involved and you can remove her from your life. Please don't stick around to support her.
posted by kinetic at 8:51 PM on January 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
he was arrested today.
That's a bit cryptic. Well, now the authorities are involved and you can remove her from your life. Please don't stick around to support her.
posted by kinetic at 8:51 PM on January 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
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posted by xcasex at 5:58 PM on January 25, 2015