Is there an ethical way to have my cake and eat it too?
January 19, 2015 1:59 PM Subscribe
Hi Metafilter, I hope you can help with a question about ethics, fetishes, and relationships.
While not a fetish in the traditional sense (i.e. something where I can't enjoy myself without it being present) I have a very strong sexual preference for women with breast implants. I've had both relationships and sexual encounters with women both with and without breast implants, and I've not had any success with trying to "retrain" myself out of the preference.
Where the ethical dilemma comes in - I'm currently in a long-term relationship with a women without breast implants, and as in all my previous relationships like this, I absolutely refrain from talking about my preference, and am neutral on the topic if it comes up independently. I feel like sharing this information will make my partner feel inadequate - or if they're very smitten with me and eager to fulfill my desires - emotionally blackmailed into going through with something fairly serious. It's not like it's just a sex act or a cheap prop I would be implicitly requesting - I'm under no illusions that breast augmentation is simple: it's both expensive and, like any major surgery, can become medically complicated.
I do want to get married and have children eventually, but I feel like I would need to have this preference fulfilled also. I'd happily propose to my girlfriend down the line if I knew that at some point - after we have kids, I suppose - she'd be keen on breast augmentation. She's very submissive and sexually accommodating with me, which is great, and makes me feel like she'd probably agree if I asked her to do it for me, but that almost would make me feel worse. I have no problem telling my partner what I would like her to wear or do in the bedroom, but this is quite a step beyond that. And - if she doesn't want to get breast implants, then I feel like I will have cast a pall over our relationship.
I feel like my only ethical option is to date a woman who's already decided to get breast implants - which is moderately rare in my part of the world, and I feel like I'd probably end up compromising on some other aspect of the relationship for the sake of fulfilling this desire. I really enjoy my relationship at the moment - it's one of the best I've ever had - but this particular question makes me hesitant to go "all in" and fully commit. Any advice would be welcome, thanks.
While not a fetish in the traditional sense (i.e. something where I can't enjoy myself without it being present) I have a very strong sexual preference for women with breast implants. I've had both relationships and sexual encounters with women both with and without breast implants, and I've not had any success with trying to "retrain" myself out of the preference.
Where the ethical dilemma comes in - I'm currently in a long-term relationship with a women without breast implants, and as in all my previous relationships like this, I absolutely refrain from talking about my preference, and am neutral on the topic if it comes up independently. I feel like sharing this information will make my partner feel inadequate - or if they're very smitten with me and eager to fulfill my desires - emotionally blackmailed into going through with something fairly serious. It's not like it's just a sex act or a cheap prop I would be implicitly requesting - I'm under no illusions that breast augmentation is simple: it's both expensive and, like any major surgery, can become medically complicated.
I do want to get married and have children eventually, but I feel like I would need to have this preference fulfilled also. I'd happily propose to my girlfriend down the line if I knew that at some point - after we have kids, I suppose - she'd be keen on breast augmentation. She's very submissive and sexually accommodating with me, which is great, and makes me feel like she'd probably agree if I asked her to do it for me, but that almost would make me feel worse. I have no problem telling my partner what I would like her to wear or do in the bedroom, but this is quite a step beyond that. And - if she doesn't want to get breast implants, then I feel like I will have cast a pall over our relationship.
I feel like my only ethical option is to date a woman who's already decided to get breast implants - which is moderately rare in my part of the world, and I feel like I'd probably end up compromising on some other aspect of the relationship for the sake of fulfilling this desire. I really enjoy my relationship at the moment - it's one of the best I've ever had - but this particular question makes me hesitant to go "all in" and fully commit. Any advice would be welcome, thanks.
I feel like my only ethical option is to date a woman who's already decided to get breast implants
Agreed. Make it so.
- which is moderately rare in my part of the world, and I feel like I'd probably end up compromising on some other aspect of the relationship for the sake of fulfilling this desire.
Maybe. Or maybe not. For one thing, you'd have something in common: you both like breast implants. Other potential shared interests might correlate.
posted by feral_goldfish at 2:18 PM on January 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Agreed. Make it so.
- which is moderately rare in my part of the world, and I feel like I'd probably end up compromising on some other aspect of the relationship for the sake of fulfilling this desire.
Maybe. Or maybe not. For one thing, you'd have something in common: you both like breast implants. Other potential shared interests might correlate.
posted by feral_goldfish at 2:18 PM on January 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I really enjoy my relationship at the moment - it's one of the best I've ever had - but this particular question makes me hesitant to go "all in" and fully commit.
No partner is a perfect dream. This isn't a question of fetish as much as it is a question of growing up IMHO.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:20 PM on January 19, 2015 [34 favorites]
No partner is a perfect dream. This isn't a question of fetish as much as it is a question of growing up IMHO.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:20 PM on January 19, 2015 [34 favorites]
One piece to consider, you're sort of disrespecting her and infantilizing her by keeping this to yourself. You're saying that, by gently sharing honest information about yourself, you have the power to make her feel inadequate and that she's not competent to constructively engage with you on equal footing about sexuality in your relationship.
(I want to say that I totally get where you're coming from, and I think it's laudable from a certain perspective, to not want to be bringing it up maybe while you're getting to know someone. But, I feel like if you're getting serious then you have to.)
I actually have a fetish which many (most?) women find aversive, and, in potential relationships, I have to make the call whether to bring it up or keep it to myself (forever?). For what it's worth, I always make the call to bring it up as soon as possible. I couldn't "destroy this part of my mind," as Greg Nog suggests. Likely, I'll have to keep dating until I meet someone who will engage in this with me and is a generally amazing human being who is into me too, etc., etc., etc.,
posted by zeek321 at 2:20 PM on January 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
(I want to say that I totally get where you're coming from, and I think it's laudable from a certain perspective, to not want to be bringing it up maybe while you're getting to know someone. But, I feel like if you're getting serious then you have to.)
I actually have a fetish which many (most?) women find aversive, and, in potential relationships, I have to make the call whether to bring it up or keep it to myself (forever?). For what it's worth, I always make the call to bring it up as soon as possible. I couldn't "destroy this part of my mind," as Greg Nog suggests. Likely, I'll have to keep dating until I meet someone who will engage in this with me and is a generally amazing human being who is into me too, etc., etc., etc.,
posted by zeek321 at 2:20 PM on January 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
You have a right to like what you like. The sooner you're honest about it the better it will be. Personally, I don't know why you're even dating anyone with natural breasts if you know you only want to marry women with fake racks.
So break up with your girlfriend, because you can't ask her to get implants for you.
Or, you can try to mature to the point where you see that while having a fantasy is great, they rarely come true or are useful in everyday life.
If this fetish keeps you from forming a loving relationship with a wonderful person who also loves you...that's a pretty strong hold that a couple of lumps of plastic have over you.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:20 PM on January 19, 2015 [24 favorites]
So break up with your girlfriend, because you can't ask her to get implants for you.
Or, you can try to mature to the point where you see that while having a fantasy is great, they rarely come true or are useful in everyday life.
If this fetish keeps you from forming a loving relationship with a wonderful person who also loves you...that's a pretty strong hold that a couple of lumps of plastic have over you.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:20 PM on January 19, 2015 [24 favorites]
(Just to add, as far as I can tell, I need to satisfy my fetish to fully experience romantic attachment. You should maybe carefully and patiently introspect to try to see whether you can truly live without it "forever" and still be in a relationship with that person.)
posted by zeek321 at 2:23 PM on January 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by zeek321 at 2:23 PM on January 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the reason "trying to have your cake and eat it too" is even a cliche is because in almost every situation, no, you can't.
I'd say you absolutely cannot, under any circumstances, suggest this to your current partner. You'd be using her emotions and her "submissive" tendencies against her and you know it, or you wouldn't even have asked here.
Break up with her. And in the future this is the kind of "kink card" you need to lay on the table early. Before anyone has enough emotion invested to think they really ought to do this for your sake and not their own.
Though I think probably you should just only date women who already have breast implants. (OH: And, not to be too harsh I hope, but why do you think you won't have anything in common? Do you maybe on some level think women with breast implants are stupid or trashy or something? That's a thought process to unpack before you involve other people in your kink for sure.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:24 PM on January 19, 2015 [23 favorites]
I'd say you absolutely cannot, under any circumstances, suggest this to your current partner. You'd be using her emotions and her "submissive" tendencies against her and you know it, or you wouldn't even have asked here.
Break up with her. And in the future this is the kind of "kink card" you need to lay on the table early. Before anyone has enough emotion invested to think they really ought to do this for your sake and not their own.
Though I think probably you should just only date women who already have breast implants. (OH: And, not to be too harsh I hope, but why do you think you won't have anything in common? Do you maybe on some level think women with breast implants are stupid or trashy or something? That's a thought process to unpack before you involve other people in your kink for sure.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:24 PM on January 19, 2015 [23 favorites]
It sounds like you've thought this through really well, actually, and you came here hoping we'd have some sort of secret magic way to get around what you already know.
Nope. We don't. It doesn't exist. Sorry! But congratulations on being able to reach the same conclusion yourself, and thank you for not inflicting your kink on your girlfriend.
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:30 PM on January 19, 2015 [22 favorites]
Nope. We don't. It doesn't exist. Sorry! But congratulations on being able to reach the same conclusion yourself, and thank you for not inflicting your kink on your girlfriend.
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:30 PM on January 19, 2015 [22 favorites]
To Nth the correct answer to this question: Your two ethical options are to decide your current relationship (or future relationship with someone without implants) is worth pursuing without pressuring your SO to get implants and in the knowledge that they will likely never have such implants, or to break up and date someone who already has implants. Either of those is a good option.
posted by Justinian at 2:40 PM on January 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:40 PM on January 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd say you absolutely cannot, under any circumstances, suggest this to your current partner. You'd be using her emotions and her "submissive" tendencies against her and you know it, or you wouldn't even have asked here.
I've already commented too much in this thread, so hopefully this is the last thing. Sexuality bleeds into non-bedroom stuff, of course. But, I think, again, you need to see whether it's possible to ethically, skillfully inform this person without her experiencing it as coercion, which would of course be unethical. But, if you can't have this conversation without being coercive, then either you maybe need to upgrade your communication and relationship skills or you need to be in a different relationship with an equal, instead of someone you need to "protect" because she's too weak and vulnerable to be exposed to your sexuality as an adult on equal footing.
I agree that, sometimes, if you've been married to someone for 40 years and you cheat on them, then maybe you shouldn't tell them. (Because that would be to reduce your guilt than it being about them, and you should live with your guilt and your mistake, instead of hurting them just to feel relief from your guilt.) But, and I may be projecting, I think you'll be happier (and perhaps you're even ethically obliged to inform her) if you can at least talk about this with the most important person in your life, so she can make an informed choice about the person she might want to spend the rest of her life with.
In an ideal world, she would, in a non-coerced way, intelligently and unsentimentally decide whether or not she could live with the risk of getting and having implants or even enjoy them, and if that would be acceptable to her, vis-a-vis her feelings for you and the value she places on the relationship. And, if not, which would be totally understandable and unsurprising, then you'd both have to live with that or break up.
But, yeah, if you can't accept not having this fulfilled, or you judge that she can't handle this information about you, then you should probably break up now and date someone who already has implants or with whom you believe you can have non-coercive, mutually adult conversations about this.
In any case, I think you're working through this responsibly and ethically, for whatever that's worth.
posted by zeek321 at 2:43 PM on January 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've already commented too much in this thread, so hopefully this is the last thing. Sexuality bleeds into non-bedroom stuff, of course. But, I think, again, you need to see whether it's possible to ethically, skillfully inform this person without her experiencing it as coercion, which would of course be unethical. But, if you can't have this conversation without being coercive, then either you maybe need to upgrade your communication and relationship skills or you need to be in a different relationship with an equal, instead of someone you need to "protect" because she's too weak and vulnerable to be exposed to your sexuality as an adult on equal footing.
I agree that, sometimes, if you've been married to someone for 40 years and you cheat on them, then maybe you shouldn't tell them. (Because that would be to reduce your guilt than it being about them, and you should live with your guilt and your mistake, instead of hurting them just to feel relief from your guilt.) But, and I may be projecting, I think you'll be happier (and perhaps you're even ethically obliged to inform her) if you can at least talk about this with the most important person in your life, so she can make an informed choice about the person she might want to spend the rest of her life with.
In an ideal world, she would, in a non-coerced way, intelligently and unsentimentally decide whether or not she could live with the risk of getting and having implants or even enjoy them, and if that would be acceptable to her, vis-a-vis her feelings for you and the value she places on the relationship. And, if not, which would be totally understandable and unsurprising, then you'd both have to live with that or break up.
But, yeah, if you can't accept not having this fulfilled, or you judge that she can't handle this information about you, then you should probably break up now and date someone who already has implants or with whom you believe you can have non-coercive, mutually adult conversations about this.
In any case, I think you're working through this responsibly and ethically, for whatever that's worth.
posted by zeek321 at 2:43 PM on January 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Please don't mention it to her, ever. Breast augmentation is a very complex surgery, can have serious complications and it's not a one-time-only event as the implants themselves don't have a particularly long life and need to be replaced, sometimes several times depending on the age of the woman when she got them.
Let her go and don't waste her time if this is an important consideration for you. Find someone who already has implants. That's really the only ethical approach here.
posted by quince at 2:44 PM on January 19, 2015 [16 favorites]
Let her go and don't waste her time if this is an important consideration for you. Find someone who already has implants. That's really the only ethical approach here.
posted by quince at 2:44 PM on January 19, 2015 [16 favorites]
"[I] am neutral on the topic [of breast implants] if it comes up independently [in conversations with my girlfriend]".
Why don't you try to be just slightly less than neutral the next time it comes up? There is a small chance that your girlfriend will say something like, "Oh, I always wanted to get implants, but I was really afraid that it would turn you off. So you really like them? You're not just saying that?".
If you don't get this reaction, then I'd go along with what everyone else has said (i.e., it would be unethical for you to pressure your girlfriend into getting the implants).
posted by akk2014 at 2:47 PM on January 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
Why don't you try to be just slightly less than neutral the next time it comes up? There is a small chance that your girlfriend will say something like, "Oh, I always wanted to get implants, but I was really afraid that it would turn you off. So you really like them? You're not just saying that?".
If you don't get this reaction, then I'd go along with what everyone else has said (i.e., it would be unethical for you to pressure your girlfriend into getting the implants).
posted by akk2014 at 2:47 PM on January 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is there an ethical way to have my cake and eat it too?
Of course. It would involved asking for what you want.
Yes, this is path fraught with difficulty, one that may make your SO feel several negative things about you or herself.
But pretty much the only ethical way is to ask for what you want and letting those chips fall where they may. But keeping this all bottled up isn't going to help you in the long run. What happens in ten years if you're married and your breast augmented vision comes along?
Deal with this sooner rather than later.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:48 PM on January 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Of course. It would involved asking for what you want.
Yes, this is path fraught with difficulty, one that may make your SO feel several negative things about you or herself.
But pretty much the only ethical way is to ask for what you want and letting those chips fall where they may. But keeping this all bottled up isn't going to help you in the long run. What happens in ten years if you're married and your breast augmented vision comes along?
Deal with this sooner rather than later.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:48 PM on January 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
As a woman, it would absolutely devastate me to know that the man that I love, who I have invested everything in, was only keeping me around because he hoped that I would someday have a dangerous operation to look more like he wants me to look. The ethical thing to do would be to come clean about who you really are. Give her all the information. Give her time to process the information. Allow her to make an honest decision about if she wants to be with you.
posted by myselfasme at 2:54 PM on January 19, 2015 [47 favorites]
posted by myselfasme at 2:54 PM on January 19, 2015 [47 favorites]
Is there any way this fetish could be satisfied with some half-measures? For example, in bed you could ask her to wear a bra with "implants" in them already.
posted by Leontine at 2:55 PM on January 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Leontine at 2:55 PM on January 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
Have you discussed breast implants with her in a general sense so that you know her view on the topic? Don't tell her that you would need for her to get implants but rather assess her opinion of others so that you can gauge whether or not this would even be remotely appropriate. Lots of women are totaaly into it so it would be a shame to break up with her without some sort of discussion. If she conveys disgust or disapproval of the procedure, in general, clearly don't pursue it and break up, but if she says she has always had a secret desire to get them, you're golden.
posted by waving at 3:28 PM on January 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by waving at 3:28 PM on January 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Please also remember that quite a few women who do choose to undergo such a surgery are doing it for very complicated and personal reasons that don't involve satisfying some guy's sexual kinks. An invasive surgery meant to "correct" or at least seriously change a woman's secondary sexual characteristics is rarely pursued for little reason. You'd be asking a lot, even of a woman who already has or fully expects to get implants. Your best bet is to find a woman who is open about also having an implant fetish.
posted by theraflu at 3:32 PM on January 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by theraflu at 3:32 PM on January 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
Let's say your girlfriend had a fetish--well not really a fetish, but a sexual preference so strong she would consider never marrying you if you did not commit to a lifetime of repeated expensive painful elective major surgeries under general anesthesia that would affect your appearance and possibly sexual sensation in order to comport with this preference. Say these surgeries were generally safe but regularly involved botched jobs, infections, and recalls.
Say this surgery could not be hidden, that everyone who saw you would pretty much know you'd gotten it. Say there was unfortunately still a pretty widespread stigma about this surgery, and it made a lot of people who saw you, especially where you live because it is uncommon, think you were a sex worker, or shallow and stupid. Say having this surgery dramatically increased unwanted sexual attention from people 50-100 lbs bigger than you.
Let's also say that in your culture, a man's looks are everything, and for your entire life, you've been painfully aware of the ways in which you don't measure up to the fickle and unattainable aesthetic standards of your culture and your partners. Say you were an eager-to-please and submissive sort of person. Say you loved her more than anything.
Do you think there would be a "gentle" way for her to state this preference? Do you think there would be a way for her to have her cake and eat it too?
posted by kapers at 3:36 PM on January 19, 2015 [149 favorites]
Say this surgery could not be hidden, that everyone who saw you would pretty much know you'd gotten it. Say there was unfortunately still a pretty widespread stigma about this surgery, and it made a lot of people who saw you, especially where you live because it is uncommon, think you were a sex worker, or shallow and stupid. Say having this surgery dramatically increased unwanted sexual attention from people 50-100 lbs bigger than you.
Let's also say that in your culture, a man's looks are everything, and for your entire life, you've been painfully aware of the ways in which you don't measure up to the fickle and unattainable aesthetic standards of your culture and your partners. Say you were an eager-to-please and submissive sort of person. Say you loved her more than anything.
Do you think there would be a "gentle" way for her to state this preference? Do you think there would be a way for her to have her cake and eat it too?
posted by kapers at 3:36 PM on January 19, 2015 [149 favorites]
I'd happily propose to my girlfriend down the line if I knew that at some point - after we have kids, I suppose - she'd be keen on breast augmentation.
So, as something of a Gedankenexperiment, what if she agreed to this, you got married, had children - and then she changed her mind and didn't want to go through with it?
It's not exactly the question you asked, but it might bear some thinking upon.
posted by doctor tough love at 3:51 PM on January 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
So, as something of a Gedankenexperiment, what if she agreed to this, you got married, had children - and then she changed her mind and didn't want to go through with it?
It's not exactly the question you asked, but it might bear some thinking upon.
posted by doctor tough love at 3:51 PM on January 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
I, too, think you deserve credit for having given this the thought it deserves, and I think you will do the right thing when you've reflected on it.
Unfortunately, I have no good advice to give on the exact nature of the right thing in this case. On the one hand, yes, as several people have pointed out, that would be asking quite a lot from a partner. However, you seem to have a firm grip on that fact, so no need to belabor it.
On the other hand, as zeek321 pointed out, just breaking up with her over this issue, without allowing her any input, may not be fair to her either. That's complicated--it depends on how well she can ascertain, and act on, what's right for her personally, under the pressure of a loved one's wishes. No one here can make that judgment for you. To your credit, you are prepared to err on the side of caution.
I would just point out that you are at odds with yourself on one point, and that may be why you're asking this question:
While not a fetish in the traditional sense (i.e. something where I can't enjoy myself without it being present)
I do want to get married and have children eventually, but I feel like I would need to have this preference fulfilled
You either need it, or you don't.
posted by bricoleur at 5:02 PM on January 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, I have no good advice to give on the exact nature of the right thing in this case. On the one hand, yes, as several people have pointed out, that would be asking quite a lot from a partner. However, you seem to have a firm grip on that fact, so no need to belabor it.
On the other hand, as zeek321 pointed out, just breaking up with her over this issue, without allowing her any input, may not be fair to her either. That's complicated--it depends on how well she can ascertain, and act on, what's right for her personally, under the pressure of a loved one's wishes. No one here can make that judgment for you. To your credit, you are prepared to err on the side of caution.
I would just point out that you are at odds with yourself on one point, and that may be why you're asking this question:
While not a fetish in the traditional sense (i.e. something where I can't enjoy myself without it being present)
I do want to get married and have children eventually, but I feel like I would need to have this preference fulfilled
You either need it, or you don't.
posted by bricoleur at 5:02 PM on January 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would agree with others that you might try to discover in a roundabout way whether she already has an interest in breast implants but hasn't followed through for whatever reason. But do consider: what if she got breast implants and then there were complications and they had to be removed? For that matter, what if you got into a relationship with someone who already had implants and the implants later had to be removed? Would you be able to stay with them?
That said, I don't think anyone has suggested the possibility of an open relationship. Would it be enough for you to get your need to interact with implants fulfilled by occasional sessions with a third party? It sounds like you can go for a long time without, you just don't like the finality of "never again in your life", and your partner may be more amenable to an open relationship than to major elective surgery.
Another possiblity: can you replicate whatever it is you like about implants in some other way? Maybe you like the way they feel, and you could have your girlfriend wear prosthetic breasts that simulate that feeling. (Sure, they'd be expensive--probably have to be custom made--but not as expensive as major surgery.) Maybe you like the idea of someone altering their own body to be a better version of themselves, and you could get some of the same thrill out of something less drastic like a piercing or tattoo.
posted by Scraps, the Patchwork Girl at 5:44 PM on January 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
That said, I don't think anyone has suggested the possibility of an open relationship. Would it be enough for you to get your need to interact with implants fulfilled by occasional sessions with a third party? It sounds like you can go for a long time without, you just don't like the finality of "never again in your life", and your partner may be more amenable to an open relationship than to major elective surgery.
Another possiblity: can you replicate whatever it is you like about implants in some other way? Maybe you like the way they feel, and you could have your girlfriend wear prosthetic breasts that simulate that feeling. (Sure, they'd be expensive--probably have to be custom made--but not as expensive as major surgery.) Maybe you like the idea of someone altering their own body to be a better version of themselves, and you could get some of the same thrill out of something less drastic like a piercing or tattoo.
posted by Scraps, the Patchwork Girl at 5:44 PM on January 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
If this kink is important enough to you even to consider asking your girlfriend to get implants, cheating, or reconstructing your relationship agreement to pursue a non-monogamous solution, it's important enough to consider, with equal seriousness, moving somewhere where implants are not rare, and starting over. That would be a way to meet your needs without imposing all the requisite changes on your partner who doesn't share your kink. It's a kink, so it's intense and it probably won't go away, and it's a kink your partner can't fulfill without considerable hardship on her part.
There wouldn't even be a question here if you were acrotomophiliac - but because it's socially acceptable for women to undergo elective surgery solely to change their breasts, you have developed the sad hope that your partner will develop such a wish without your input. There's no ethical breathing room here - what you want is flatly unfair to your partner, and if you can't be happy without it, you have to let her go.
posted by gingerest at 5:52 PM on January 19, 2015 [10 favorites]
There wouldn't even be a question here if you were acrotomophiliac - but because it's socially acceptable for women to undergo elective surgery solely to change their breasts, you have developed the sad hope that your partner will develop such a wish without your input. There's no ethical breathing room here - what you want is flatly unfair to your partner, and if you can't be happy without it, you have to let her go.
posted by gingerest at 5:52 PM on January 19, 2015 [10 favorites]
I am here to third the ethical non-monogamy option; however, don't think this is the easy option. Your partner may not be open to the idea, you may realize that it doesn't work for you (because your partner would, of course, also be open to having other lovers/relationships, right?), you have to deal with either keeping your others (assuming you form some kind of romantic attraction) from your friends and family or doing a lot of explaining over and over again or deal with people who can't wait to tell you that your partner is 'cheating' if you're not all very careful, and you have to be willing to communicate (and communicate, and communicate. Even if y'all go for the 'don't ask don't tell' solutions [and some couples do], there's still communication work to do.
Also, you have to decide: if your partner isn't receptive to non-monogamy, what then? If she decides to walk, will you be okay with that?
This isn't all of what you need to think about, but hopefully it gives you a start.
posted by joycehealy at 5:59 PM on January 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, you have to decide: if your partner isn't receptive to non-monogamy, what then? If she decides to walk, will you be okay with that?
This isn't all of what you need to think about, but hopefully it gives you a start.
posted by joycehealy at 5:59 PM on January 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
The ethically responsible thing to do in this situation is to only date women who already have breast implants, not to date a woman who doesn't have them and either pressure her into getting them or making her feel inferior for not having them.
Or to just get over it, I guess. If you really love the woman you're with right now, the best thing to do is to come to terms with the reality that there's a thing you really like, and also totally the luck of the draw that the person you ended up with did not have that trait. You don't always get your ideal list of personal attributes.
posted by Sara C. at 6:04 PM on January 19, 2015 [11 favorites]
Or to just get over it, I guess. If you really love the woman you're with right now, the best thing to do is to come to terms with the reality that there's a thing you really like, and also totally the luck of the draw that the person you ended up with did not have that trait. You don't always get your ideal list of personal attributes.
posted by Sara C. at 6:04 PM on January 19, 2015 [11 favorites]
Not for nothing but if I were your partner I'd like to know that this was how you felt. I am not judging you, people like what they like and its fine, but, personally, I would prefer not to get intimate with someone who had this particular kink. I'm not saying I think you have to come out with it on the first date or even before you have sex with someone, but somewhere just before or as things are getting serious seems only fair.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 6:16 PM on January 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 6:16 PM on January 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
If I were in a serious, long-term, committed relationship with a partner, and that relationship was moving toward proposal territory (I assume since you say you would happily propose were it not for this issue, you have talked about marriage), and my partner told me he could not be satisfied with me in the long term unless I got breast implants, I would be absolutely devastated. A revelation like that so late in the game would make me question my judgment, as I would wonder what else I did not know about my partner. It would make me feel like a fool, and a fool in the sexual realm. It would, at minimum, shake the foundation of my relationship, and perhaps even shatter it.
I respect the tone of your question, but this is a tough one. If you do leave her, telling her precisely why may harm her in a serious and painful way. Don't get yourself into this situation again. Date women with implants.
posted by sevensnowflakes at 6:18 PM on January 19, 2015 [20 favorites]
I respect the tone of your question, but this is a tough one. If you do leave her, telling her precisely why may harm her in a serious and painful way. Don't get yourself into this situation again. Date women with implants.
posted by sevensnowflakes at 6:18 PM on January 19, 2015 [20 favorites]
Like Leontine suggested - does it help fufil the fantasy if she were to wear those gel inserts you can put in your bra to increase your cup size? Can you watch porn with her or by yourself with actresses who have had implants? Would she be at all open (maybe not now, but in some amount of years) to you visiting a clean and vetted sex worker with implants, or maybe a casual girlfriend with them? You might have better luck if you can reach a compromise short of actual breast augmentation.
Of course you have no control over your sexual preferences. However breast augmentation is a huge deal, like kapers laid out in that analogy. It's complicated, risky, permanent (scarring and skin expansion, at least), requires a lifetime of upkeep (I'm assuming you're 20's or 30's). AND stigmatizing, unfortunately. Depending on her body type, her theoretical implants may be pretty obvious to strangers, and she would be ogled and judged for as long as she had them. That's pretty shitty.
Try to decide if this is something you'll know that you'll need in a relationship; consider the compromises, feel out how she feels without pressuring her. If you know you can't go without massaging plastic titties, the best course of action is probably to date a woman who has already had implants, and you two can both enjoy her body just the way it is.
posted by Drosera at 6:37 PM on January 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Of course you have no control over your sexual preferences. However breast augmentation is a huge deal, like kapers laid out in that analogy. It's complicated, risky, permanent (scarring and skin expansion, at least), requires a lifetime of upkeep (I'm assuming you're 20's or 30's). AND stigmatizing, unfortunately. Depending on her body type, her theoretical implants may be pretty obvious to strangers, and she would be ogled and judged for as long as she had them. That's pretty shitty.
Try to decide if this is something you'll know that you'll need in a relationship; consider the compromises, feel out how she feels without pressuring her. If you know you can't go without massaging plastic titties, the best course of action is probably to date a woman who has already had implants, and you two can both enjoy her body just the way it is.
posted by Drosera at 6:37 PM on January 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think the reason this comes across as pretty doublecakey is that it's either a dealbreaker thing or it isn't, right? If breast implants are so absolutely integral to your sexuality that you can't be happy in a relationship with a woman who lacks them, our advice can be nothing other than the advice we'd give to a gay man in a relationship with a woman: leave! If that isn't the case, it's just an item off a list of any number of qualities that distinguish your actual partner from your imaginary fantasy dream partner. And if you like her enough, then you'll just have to accept that. And if you don't...don't.
posted by threeants at 6:52 PM on January 19, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by threeants at 6:52 PM on January 19, 2015 [15 favorites]
Are there strip clubs that allow some touching where you live? Or erotic massage parlours, perhaps? How would your partner feel about you visiting such an establishment from time to time?
posted by kinddieserzeit at 6:58 PM on January 19, 2015
posted by kinddieserzeit at 6:58 PM on January 19, 2015
I love wide shoulders and big hands on a dude. I'm married to a man who doesn't have them because early on I recognized that he was going to make me happy anyway, that he was wonderful, that I was lucky to have found him, and that I was just going to have to get over the shoulders/hands thing.
If you can't do that - if visualizing yourself with her long term makes you feel like you really couldn't, with a whole and happy heart, get over it - then break up to her and move to LA where implants are very common and you could likely find a partner who has them.
And for the love of God please don't marry someone knowing that a physical trait of hers is going to be the reason you're going to justify visiting massage parlors.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:36 PM on January 19, 2015 [23 favorites]
If you can't do that - if visualizing yourself with her long term makes you feel like you really couldn't, with a whole and happy heart, get over it - then break up to her and move to LA where implants are very common and you could likely find a partner who has them.
And for the love of God please don't marry someone knowing that a physical trait of hers is going to be the reason you're going to justify visiting massage parlors.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:36 PM on January 19, 2015 [23 favorites]
It's strange. I had been totally agreeing that "no, you can't share this with her". But then I imagined: what if mrs_goldfish told me that her major, lifelong, #1 turn-on was breast implants? That she enjoyed sex with me just fine, hadn't been faking anything, considered my physique the finest of natural physiques -- but thanks to her special fetish, implants would up our game to a whole other level?
Yeah, I would seriously consider that. Actually I'm pretty sure I'd do it.
(If she told me she'd break up with me otherwise, though, that would creep me out A LOT and probably damage our relationship beyond repair.)
She's very submissive and sexually accommodating with me
Assuming you meant "she's a people-pleaser" or "she's insecure, without a strong sense of self-determination", then yeah, that's sufficient reason not to disclose anything more than a very mild interest in the topic. BUT if it means that she's genuinely and strongly turned on by enacting a certain conventional girlfriendly kind of submission, AND that she's conscious of and comfortable with her own sexuality in that respect, then PERHAPS you should consider disclosing not only mild interest but also mild kink.
posted by feral_goldfish at 7:37 PM on January 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I would seriously consider that. Actually I'm pretty sure I'd do it.
(If she told me she'd break up with me otherwise, though, that would creep me out A LOT and probably damage our relationship beyond repair.)
She's very submissive and sexually accommodating with me
Assuming you meant "she's a people-pleaser" or "she's insecure, without a strong sense of self-determination", then yeah, that's sufficient reason not to disclose anything more than a very mild interest in the topic. BUT if it means that she's genuinely and strongly turned on by enacting a certain conventional girlfriendly kind of submission, AND that she's conscious of and comfortable with her own sexuality in that respect, then PERHAPS you should consider disclosing not only mild interest but also mild kink.
posted by feral_goldfish at 7:37 PM on January 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
On the one hand I totally agree with Kapers, on the other hand I've had a surprising number of female friends express interest in getting breast implants. Like people you would never expect in a million years.
I do not think you can ask this. I really don't. I think you really need to figure out whether it's a dealbreaker for you. If you've been able to have a happy satisfying relationship with a woman without breast implants then maybe you need to come to grips with the fact it isn't. Not really. I think the attain ability of it is clouding your judgement. If she only did this thing she could totally do she would be perfect, but you'd probably be a lot less perfect to her even if she agreed to do it. I think this kind of request is something that can really forever taint a relationship. I don't think you can unring that bell.
If it's really a dealbreaker well then it is and you will have to be willing to accept the very real consequences of limiting yourself to only women with implants.
posted by whoaali at 8:18 PM on January 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I do not think you can ask this. I really don't. I think you really need to figure out whether it's a dealbreaker for you. If you've been able to have a happy satisfying relationship with a woman without breast implants then maybe you need to come to grips with the fact it isn't. Not really. I think the attain ability of it is clouding your judgement. If she only did this thing she could totally do she would be perfect, but you'd probably be a lot less perfect to her even if she agreed to do it. I think this kind of request is something that can really forever taint a relationship. I don't think you can unring that bell.
If it's really a dealbreaker well then it is and you will have to be willing to accept the very real consequences of limiting yourself to only women with implants.
posted by whoaali at 8:18 PM on January 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it's very unlikely you can have your cake and eat it too, but not impossible; it sounds like you have no idea what your partner actually thinks about implants. Does plastic surgery creep her out? Has she ever stated something to the effect that she can't understand women who get them, would never do it, finds it gross or disturbing, etc?
But like whoaali said, more women than you think are into implants- but there is totally a stigma where in many circles it's not an appropriate thing to desire. It's seen as trashy, or desperate, or otherwise indicative of some sort of unsavory psychological malfunction. But a quick perusal of the flourishing bimbo fetish community will show you that plenty of otherwise intelligent and well-adjusted women partake to some extent of this kink (obviously to even more extreme degrees, but it's a continuum).
posted by Aubergine at 8:22 PM on January 19, 2015
But like whoaali said, more women than you think are into implants- but there is totally a stigma where in many circles it's not an appropriate thing to desire. It's seen as trashy, or desperate, or otherwise indicative of some sort of unsavory psychological malfunction. But a quick perusal of the flourishing bimbo fetish community will show you that plenty of otherwise intelligent and well-adjusted women partake to some extent of this kink (obviously to even more extreme degrees, but it's a continuum).
posted by Aubergine at 8:22 PM on January 19, 2015
In my opinion, you either 1) need to accept that fantasies are just fantasies and they may be great to think about, but you won't get to live them every time you have sex. I think for most people, this is probably the case and probably how most people experience their fantasies. Or, 2) you dump your girlfriend and commit yourself to only pursing women with breast implants.
Either way, you can't ask her to do this or even tell her how you feel about this because it will apply the pressure, even without specifically asking. I'm glad you recognize you cannot do this. You can find out her general opinion and philosophy on breast plants at the very most -- if she hates them, you can let go of any hope she will elect to do this on her own. But ultimately, this isn't about her or her breasts at all. It's about you deciding whether you can live without fulfilling your sexual fantasies or whether you don't feel like you should have to settle.
I'm not judging you. On principle I'd say, "Dude, get a life. There is more to living than meeting your strongest sexual urges. The woman you hope to marry one day, whoever she is, is more than just a set of boobs." But if this is really a problem for you that you won't be able to move past, if you feel like you have one life to live and you shouldn't compromise your sexual satisfaction, then definitely let yourself handle that -- and do her a favor and let her move on to be with someone her loves her body the way it is, too.
You can think about this forever, but I think you should follow your gut and your heart here. Being happy or being in love isn't something that is done on paper with a pros and cons column, so you just gotta do what you feel from within.
posted by AppleTurnover at 9:24 PM on January 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Either way, you can't ask her to do this or even tell her how you feel about this because it will apply the pressure, even without specifically asking. I'm glad you recognize you cannot do this. You can find out her general opinion and philosophy on breast plants at the very most -- if she hates them, you can let go of any hope she will elect to do this on her own. But ultimately, this isn't about her or her breasts at all. It's about you deciding whether you can live without fulfilling your sexual fantasies or whether you don't feel like you should have to settle.
I'm not judging you. On principle I'd say, "Dude, get a life. There is more to living than meeting your strongest sexual urges. The woman you hope to marry one day, whoever she is, is more than just a set of boobs." But if this is really a problem for you that you won't be able to move past, if you feel like you have one life to live and you shouldn't compromise your sexual satisfaction, then definitely let yourself handle that -- and do her a favor and let her move on to be with someone her loves her body the way it is, too.
You can think about this forever, but I think you should follow your gut and your heart here. Being happy or being in love isn't something that is done on paper with a pros and cons column, so you just gotta do what you feel from within.
posted by AppleTurnover at 9:24 PM on January 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I kind of feel sorry for her that any and all other qualities she might have as a human being, partner, lover, etc. aren't enough compared to big ol' fake titties. But if you'd rather have big boobs and no her than the other way around, then it's time to break up. I...don't know how telling her the truth wouldn't make things disastrously worse there.
Btw, Juliet Banana, your answer to this is something that should apply to many, many questions here: "It sounds like you've thought this through really well, actually, and you came here hoping we'd have some sort of secret magic way to get around what you already know. Nope. We don't. It doesn't exist. Sorry! But congratulations on being able to reach the same conclusion yourself"
Kudos for that answer!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:55 PM on January 19, 2015 [10 favorites]
Btw, Juliet Banana, your answer to this is something that should apply to many, many questions here: "It sounds like you've thought this through really well, actually, and you came here hoping we'd have some sort of secret magic way to get around what you already know. Nope. We don't. It doesn't exist. Sorry! But congratulations on being able to reach the same conclusion yourself"
Kudos for that answer!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:55 PM on January 19, 2015 [10 favorites]
The people who are telling you to "grow up" and just stop thinking about it really don't get how a fetish works. (And this sounds like a fetish. Even if it isn't the ONLY way you can get off, it sounds like a major kink for you.)
Do you love her? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with her? I don't necessarily get that impression from your question, regardless of the implant stuff. But if you do truly love her and think she may be the one, you need to make peace with this somehow. I don't think keeping this a secret forever is a great idea, but I REALLY don't think asking her to get implants is a good idea.
I'd say, sometime when you are in an intimate, open mood with each other, tell her you have a major kink for implants. Make it VERY clear that you love the boobies she's got, but that the implant fetish is its own thing. Ask her to wear a padded bra and maybe do some roleplay, and make it sound fun. (Like Chris Rock says, you gotta come correct.) If she thinks of this as something she can do that will make you go nuts, if it's something fun she has control over, if she knows you still love her and want her even when the fake boobs go back in the drawer, maybe this could be a cool thing for both of you.
Do not undervalue the potential satisfaction of roleplay, especially with somebody who is really enjoying it. If she is willing to play out some kinky implant scenario with you, you may well find that that turns you on more than sex you've had with women who had actual implants. (After all, roleplay may get right to the heart of what turns you on about implants. If you are hung up on some fantasy based on a movie you saw when you were 9, she could act it out with you.)
If she can share this with you, you may find yourself bonding in ways you never thought were possible. When you are finally honest and you share your fetish with somebody, and they say it's OK and they want to have fun with it, it's maybe the best feeling in the world. A lot of people have fetishes that simply cannot be gratified in the real world, they wanna fuck dragons and shit. But the happy ones figure out how to scratch that itch somehow.
If she's not down with roleplay but you still want to stay together, then you're looking at a lot of porn or an open relationship. She doesn't owe you implant roleplay, but you don't owe her total abstention from your fetish either.
But do not ever, ever ask her to go under the knife for you. Don't hint, don't even brush up against the idea. If it turns out she likes her big fake boobs so much she wants to get a real pair of big fake boobs, well, you just won the fetish lottery. But don't push her or nag her or make her feel inadequate, ever.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:37 AM on January 20, 2015 [8 favorites]
Do you love her? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with her? I don't necessarily get that impression from your question, regardless of the implant stuff. But if you do truly love her and think she may be the one, you need to make peace with this somehow. I don't think keeping this a secret forever is a great idea, but I REALLY don't think asking her to get implants is a good idea.
I'd say, sometime when you are in an intimate, open mood with each other, tell her you have a major kink for implants. Make it VERY clear that you love the boobies she's got, but that the implant fetish is its own thing. Ask her to wear a padded bra and maybe do some roleplay, and make it sound fun. (Like Chris Rock says, you gotta come correct.) If she thinks of this as something she can do that will make you go nuts, if it's something fun she has control over, if she knows you still love her and want her even when the fake boobs go back in the drawer, maybe this could be a cool thing for both of you.
Do not undervalue the potential satisfaction of roleplay, especially with somebody who is really enjoying it. If she is willing to play out some kinky implant scenario with you, you may well find that that turns you on more than sex you've had with women who had actual implants. (After all, roleplay may get right to the heart of what turns you on about implants. If you are hung up on some fantasy based on a movie you saw when you were 9, she could act it out with you.)
If she can share this with you, you may find yourself bonding in ways you never thought were possible. When you are finally honest and you share your fetish with somebody, and they say it's OK and they want to have fun with it, it's maybe the best feeling in the world. A lot of people have fetishes that simply cannot be gratified in the real world, they wanna fuck dragons and shit. But the happy ones figure out how to scratch that itch somehow.
If she's not down with roleplay but you still want to stay together, then you're looking at a lot of porn or an open relationship. She doesn't owe you implant roleplay, but you don't owe her total abstention from your fetish either.
But do not ever, ever ask her to go under the knife for you. Don't hint, don't even brush up against the idea. If it turns out she likes her big fake boobs so much she wants to get a real pair of big fake boobs, well, you just won the fetish lottery. But don't push her or nag her or make her feel inadequate, ever.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:37 AM on January 20, 2015 [8 favorites]
consume less porn and see if this preference loses intensity.
posted by nadawi at 6:07 AM on January 20, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 6:07 AM on January 20, 2015 [18 favorites]
I suppose there might be a woman in the world who might not run 500 miles away if you suggested this. Then again ... you might not actually LIKE her.
posted by tanktop at 7:46 AM on January 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by tanktop at 7:46 AM on January 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I guess I'm in the minority when I say I think you should indeed tell your girlfriend what's going on. Otherwise, nothing you do will be fair to her. If you stay with her when you aren't totally into her, that's unfair to her. If you break up with her and either don't give her a reason or give her a bogus one, that's also unfair to her.
This is such a potentially hot topic, though, that if it were me, I might put it in writing. That gives you a chance to word it as carefully as possible, and also her a chance to think about it and not have to react immediately as she would in a face to face convo.
Oh and, last thing: This. Is. Indeed. A Fetish. You need to own up to that. You're basically reducing your partner to one attribute of her. This is really no different than someone with a foot fetish who can't be happy unless his partner is wearing heels or a particular color toe polish.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 8:39 AM on January 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is such a potentially hot topic, though, that if it were me, I might put it in writing. That gives you a chance to word it as carefully as possible, and also her a chance to think about it and not have to react immediately as she would in a face to face convo.
Oh and, last thing: This. Is. Indeed. A Fetish. You need to own up to that. You're basically reducing your partner to one attribute of her. This is really no different than someone with a foot fetish who can't be happy unless his partner is wearing heels or a particular color toe polish.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 8:39 AM on January 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
She's very submissive and sexually accommodating with me, which is great, and makes me feel like she'd probably agree if I asked her to do it for me, but that almost would make me feel worse.
Yeah, you need to only date people who already have breast implants and I honestly think you probably need to break up with this woman pronto. The way you relate to and talk about your partner is not actually in any way respectful of her agency. For example, you're talking about her submissiveness solely as it relates to you, it's impossible to tell whether this is something she's into because she likes it or because you like it and she wants to please you, but that's a damn important disctinction and one you should already be aware of, and that combined with your "oh but I mustn't allow her full information to make informed consent, what if she chooses to react to it in a way I don't like" schtick is giving me the hinks. You're excusing it with the language of "look at what a sensitive guy I am", but it's still treating her like a child or an object and not a full person with certain rights in her own relationship, including that of informed consent. Whatever you end up doing about any of this, you need to talk to her about it. She deserves to know about something that's such a big part of your sexuality and how you relate to her, and something that could end up impacting the relationship down the line. It's selfish and unfair of you to keep her in the dark. This is unhealthy for reasons completely distinct from your fetish for fake boobs, which in and of itself shouldn't be a big deal if you handle it in a healthy and fair way.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 10:16 AM on January 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah, you need to only date people who already have breast implants and I honestly think you probably need to break up with this woman pronto. The way you relate to and talk about your partner is not actually in any way respectful of her agency. For example, you're talking about her submissiveness solely as it relates to you, it's impossible to tell whether this is something she's into because she likes it or because you like it and she wants to please you, but that's a damn important disctinction and one you should already be aware of, and that combined with your "oh but I mustn't allow her full information to make informed consent, what if she chooses to react to it in a way I don't like" schtick is giving me the hinks. You're excusing it with the language of "look at what a sensitive guy I am", but it's still treating her like a child or an object and not a full person with certain rights in her own relationship, including that of informed consent. Whatever you end up doing about any of this, you need to talk to her about it. She deserves to know about something that's such a big part of your sexuality and how you relate to her, and something that could end up impacting the relationship down the line. It's selfish and unfair of you to keep her in the dark. This is unhealthy for reasons completely distinct from your fetish for fake boobs, which in and of itself shouldn't be a big deal if you handle it in a healthy and fair way.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 10:16 AM on January 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Here's the thing...if you're considering marrying this woman (or any woman), then presumably you're thinking about being in it for the long haul, not just for a temporary hook up based solely on physical characteristics. Whatever your physical preferences now, you've GOT to know that people's bodies change over time (and yours will as well). Heck, what if, regardless of whatever decision she makes about breast implants, she gets breast cancer down the road and has to have serious surgery to save her life? Are you going to leave her because her breasts are now even less of what you consider physically perfect? Or what if she does decide to get breast implants for you, but the surgery goes wrong and doesn't come out looking like how you wanted? Are you going to say, that's it, sucks to be you, I'm leaving you now?
Obviously we are initially attracted to many people because of physical traits that they have that happen to hit certain attraction buttons for us. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you're at the point of considering marriage and a physical trait is holding you back, I feel like there's something wrong there. If you really see yourself being with this person until age 80, surely you realize that her breasts (and other physical features) are not going to stay just as they are as a 20 or 30 year old!! If that's something you cannot handle, honestly I think you're just not ready for a mature, adult, committed relationship and should stick to casual sex or less committed relationships until you grow up a bit. Maybe that sounds harsh, but it seems like it would be way more harsh for you to pressure her into implants, marry her, and then leave her in 10 years for a 20-year-old woman who fits your physical ideal better.
I'm also pretty unclear on whether this is a "fetish" or a "preference." By the typical definition, I think it's not a fetish because it sounds like you've been having plenty of good sex with this woman and you haven't NEEDED her to have fake breasts in order to orgasm or have a good time. That makes me think this is more in the preference realm. Like, hey, I adore Channing Tatum and love watching his movies and it would be lots of fun to have sex with someone who looked like Channing Tatum. Doesn't mean I can't be 100% happy and fulfilled in a relationship with someone who is not Channing Tatum. I would think really hard about whether this is truly a dealbreaker for you, and then act accordingly. If this is really and truly the one thing that is way more important to you than any other feature in a woman, then you should really and truly only date women with breast implants. If it's a preference that you might really like in a perfect world, but you can also love this particular woman without breast implants and have good sex and a happy life together, then please, let it go just like every single other person in the world who has decided they can, in fact, be happy dating and marrying someone who is not Channing Tatum/Edward from Twilight/a porn star.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:36 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Obviously we are initially attracted to many people because of physical traits that they have that happen to hit certain attraction buttons for us. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you're at the point of considering marriage and a physical trait is holding you back, I feel like there's something wrong there. If you really see yourself being with this person until age 80, surely you realize that her breasts (and other physical features) are not going to stay just as they are as a 20 or 30 year old!! If that's something you cannot handle, honestly I think you're just not ready for a mature, adult, committed relationship and should stick to casual sex or less committed relationships until you grow up a bit. Maybe that sounds harsh, but it seems like it would be way more harsh for you to pressure her into implants, marry her, and then leave her in 10 years for a 20-year-old woman who fits your physical ideal better.
I'm also pretty unclear on whether this is a "fetish" or a "preference." By the typical definition, I think it's not a fetish because it sounds like you've been having plenty of good sex with this woman and you haven't NEEDED her to have fake breasts in order to orgasm or have a good time. That makes me think this is more in the preference realm. Like, hey, I adore Channing Tatum and love watching his movies and it would be lots of fun to have sex with someone who looked like Channing Tatum. Doesn't mean I can't be 100% happy and fulfilled in a relationship with someone who is not Channing Tatum. I would think really hard about whether this is truly a dealbreaker for you, and then act accordingly. If this is really and truly the one thing that is way more important to you than any other feature in a woman, then you should really and truly only date women with breast implants. If it's a preference that you might really like in a perfect world, but you can also love this particular woman without breast implants and have good sex and a happy life together, then please, let it go just like every single other person in the world who has decided they can, in fact, be happy dating and marrying someone who is not Channing Tatum/Edward from Twilight/a porn star.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:36 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think it's not a fetish because it sounds like you've been having plenty of good sex with this woman and you haven't NEEDED her to have fake breasts in order to orgasm or have a good time.
The way it sometimes works is that you can have perfectly fulfilling sex without the fetish, but you need the fetish to be involved part of the time, e.g. at least once every X-ish. Or, you need to have a strong, reasonable belief you'll be able to engage in it in the future, or that you're steadily working with the other person to move towards being able to engage in it.
If it's not somehow in the cards, then it's not handled, and then it potentially presents a problem for sexual fulfillment and romantic attachment.
If you really see yourself being with this person until age 80, surely you realize that her breasts (and other physical features) are not going to stay just as they are as a 20 or 30 year old!!
People age, people get sick and can't ever have sex again, etc. And you go into a relationship knowing that. A fetish works the same way, sexually. You enter into a long-term commitment, or not, knowing that things are going to unpredictably change, possibly in intense, final ways. That doesn't mean that you have to deny yourself X, now or forever, especially if X is what allows you to unlock long-term romantic attachment (the kind of romantic attachment where you still love someone, even if they can become hideously ugly and can never have sex ever again or they have a brain aneurysm and their personality changes or become disable or a vegetable, or whatever) in the first place.
Anyway, the original asker has to be the one to determine what this is for them. But I just want reemphasize the perspectives of a) not minimizing this and b) not saying the asker is being immature.
posted by zeek321 at 8:12 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
The way it sometimes works is that you can have perfectly fulfilling sex without the fetish, but you need the fetish to be involved part of the time, e.g. at least once every X-ish. Or, you need to have a strong, reasonable belief you'll be able to engage in it in the future, or that you're steadily working with the other person to move towards being able to engage in it.
If it's not somehow in the cards, then it's not handled, and then it potentially presents a problem for sexual fulfillment and romantic attachment.
If you really see yourself being with this person until age 80, surely you realize that her breasts (and other physical features) are not going to stay just as they are as a 20 or 30 year old!!
People age, people get sick and can't ever have sex again, etc. And you go into a relationship knowing that. A fetish works the same way, sexually. You enter into a long-term commitment, or not, knowing that things are going to unpredictably change, possibly in intense, final ways. That doesn't mean that you have to deny yourself X, now or forever, especially if X is what allows you to unlock long-term romantic attachment (the kind of romantic attachment where you still love someone, even if they can become hideously ugly and can never have sex ever again or they have a brain aneurysm and their personality changes or become disable or a vegetable, or whatever) in the first place.
Anyway, the original asker has to be the one to determine what this is for them. But I just want reemphasize the perspectives of a) not minimizing this and b) not saying the asker is being immature.
posted by zeek321 at 8:12 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Perhaps you might consider a thought experiment in which you were born 100 years ago - - what would your options have been before this type of surgery had been invented?
posted by fairmettle at 5:27 AM on January 25, 2015
posted by fairmettle at 5:27 AM on January 25, 2015
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posted by hz37 at 2:16 PM on January 19, 2015 [46 favorites]