Creative, punchy, analog way to track our spending and saving?
January 5, 2015 10:42 AM Subscribe
We need to save $2000 every month for the next 6 months. That's not easy. I want to be able to say: okay, here's how much we've saved so far this month, here are our known expenses, can we afford a coffee out today, yes or no? But we don't have a good way to track our day-to-day, week-to-week progress so that we can adjust our spending as needed. Special difficulty: I don't think an app is going to work. I wish I could rig up a flashing neon sign or something over the front door...
I get panicky when I think about this and my brain turns to mush, so while I know there's a simple solution somewhere here I really do need some help deciding on and implementing something. I feel like the main problem is that my husband is not much of an app user or even computer user, nor does he use email. He won't easily get used to using Mint or checking our bank accounts on the computer/phone every couple of days. I need him to be engaged here, so I don't think that's going to work for us.
- We have lots of different expenses and many of them are fairly high so going cash-only isn't an option, I think
- The amount we need to save is too much to put in a jar in the house
- I keep spreadsheets that I update at least weekly
- I am the one that does all the finances
- I'm not opposed to using apps myself, but there has to be a good way to present the info to my husband, maybe a print out, because saying to him 'we can only spend X dollars this week' just isn't something he can remember
Thank you in advance!
I get panicky when I think about this and my brain turns to mush, so while I know there's a simple solution somewhere here I really do need some help deciding on and implementing something. I feel like the main problem is that my husband is not much of an app user or even computer user, nor does he use email. He won't easily get used to using Mint or checking our bank accounts on the computer/phone every couple of days. I need him to be engaged here, so I don't think that's going to work for us.
- We have lots of different expenses and many of them are fairly high so going cash-only isn't an option, I think
- The amount we need to save is too much to put in a jar in the house
- I keep spreadsheets that I update at least weekly
- I am the one that does all the finances
- I'm not opposed to using apps myself, but there has to be a good way to present the info to my husband, maybe a print out, because saying to him 'we can only spend X dollars this week' just isn't something he can remember
Thank you in advance!
Can you set up a shared calendar that you update, which will send alerts to him each day with the daily spending limit?
posted by xingcat at 10:52 AM on January 5, 2015
posted by xingcat at 10:52 AM on January 5, 2015
Can we afford a coffee out today, yes or no?
You'll get lots of good budgeting advice here, I bet, but this question is an easy one: After you budget out all your big items (rent/mortgage, car note, utilities, credit card payments, food, phone), you give yourselves a weekly allowance IN CASH.
I'm in an aggressive saving mode right now as well, so I give myself $X per week for coffee, entertainment, unbudgeted meals. When I'm out of allowance, no more spending for me. I have a weekly appointment at the ATM every Friday night, so my weekends are more predictable.
posted by mochapickle at 10:53 AM on January 5, 2015 [30 favorites]
You'll get lots of good budgeting advice here, I bet, but this question is an easy one: After you budget out all your big items (rent/mortgage, car note, utilities, credit card payments, food, phone), you give yourselves a weekly allowance IN CASH.
I'm in an aggressive saving mode right now as well, so I give myself $X per week for coffee, entertainment, unbudgeted meals. When I'm out of allowance, no more spending for me. I have a weekly appointment at the ATM every Friday night, so my weekends are more predictable.
posted by mochapickle at 10:53 AM on January 5, 2015 [30 favorites]
Maybe go super old school and give him X$ in cash each week and that's ALL he can spend?
posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:53 AM on January 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:53 AM on January 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Best answer: So, your problem is that you can't use an app to share info about your spending limits and how far you are from them, you can't use a web tool to share that info, and you can't use email.
You also can't tell him this information because he won't remember it.
I think in these circumstances the only thing you can do is ask your husband how he would know not to overspend.
My suggestion is that you open up a separate current account, one which only you have access to, and put $2000 in it at the beginning of every month.
You could then instruct the bank to notify you both by SMS (your husband can receive text messages, can't he?) when you hit a particular threshold on your normal checking account, assuming your bank offers this service.
You say it's impossible to go cash only, but you also say that the expenses you're tracking are at the level of "coffee or not coffee?" That isn't something that you do typically pay for by card, is it? That would be a matter of deciding whether or not to spend cash.
So, perhaps your husband could hand over his cards, and you could ask him at the beginning of each day to tell you what he thinks he'll need to pay for today (gas, for example) and hand him that amount of money at the start of the day. You would need to have a supply of petty cash that you would fully control, in that case.
I realize this sounds horribly controlling, but if you have no way of giving him that information that he can use, the only solution is for you to have complete control of cashflow in your home until the mission is accomplished.
posted by tel3path at 10:53 AM on January 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
You also can't tell him this information because he won't remember it.
I think in these circumstances the only thing you can do is ask your husband how he would know not to overspend.
My suggestion is that you open up a separate current account, one which only you have access to, and put $2000 in it at the beginning of every month.
You could then instruct the bank to notify you both by SMS (your husband can receive text messages, can't he?) when you hit a particular threshold on your normal checking account, assuming your bank offers this service.
You say it's impossible to go cash only, but you also say that the expenses you're tracking are at the level of "coffee or not coffee?" That isn't something that you do typically pay for by card, is it? That would be a matter of deciding whether or not to spend cash.
So, perhaps your husband could hand over his cards, and you could ask him at the beginning of each day to tell you what he thinks he'll need to pay for today (gas, for example) and hand him that amount of money at the start of the day. You would need to have a supply of petty cash that you would fully control, in that case.
I realize this sounds horribly controlling, but if you have no way of giving him that information that he can use, the only solution is for you to have complete control of cashflow in your home until the mission is accomplished.
posted by tel3path at 10:53 AM on January 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Open another account and put the $2k in there at the beginning of every month. Then you can't spend it. if you think this will lead to you overdrawing your regular account install your bank app on your phone so you can check the balance anywhere.
posted by fshgrl at 10:54 AM on January 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 10:54 AM on January 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
If you need to save aggressively and your partner isn't really one who remembers specific rules/limits or uses apps, I think that you'd be better off blacklisting certain types of spending. It may be a bit overkill in that you save more than the goal amount, but it would also help to offset any non-planned "emergency" expenses that are sure to crop up.
posted by quince at 10:54 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by quince at 10:54 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I recently totally changed my spending habits.
I give myself $50 a week to spend and I do everything I can to not spend anywhere near that. I take it out in cash and then don't touch my checking account and don't use my card unless I have to. If I use my card, I replace that money in my checking account with cash.
Before I buy something I think:
- Is there a valid reason to spend this money? Do I really need this? Can I somehow avoid it and use something I already have?
I write down every single penny I spend in a daily planner. I have spreadsheets. One is for cash flow monitoring everything that goes in/out my checking/savings account. I also have a budgeting spreadsheet that lists my bills, what dates they leave my account, amounts left over, and monitor exactly how much I'm trying to save. I love beating my target by saving money wherever I can.
I'm now obsessed and barely spend any money at all. I love competing with myself and my stubbornness wins out. Now I'm used to being frugal I don't think about shopping at all. I used to buy lots of small things because I convinced myself it wasn't much money and I deserved a treat. All of that added up and I was spending a lot more than I thought.
posted by shesbenevolent at 11:00 AM on January 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
I give myself $50 a week to spend and I do everything I can to not spend anywhere near that. I take it out in cash and then don't touch my checking account and don't use my card unless I have to. If I use my card, I replace that money in my checking account with cash.
Before I buy something I think:
- Is there a valid reason to spend this money? Do I really need this? Can I somehow avoid it and use something I already have?
I write down every single penny I spend in a daily planner. I have spreadsheets. One is for cash flow monitoring everything that goes in/out my checking/savings account. I also have a budgeting spreadsheet that lists my bills, what dates they leave my account, amounts left over, and monitor exactly how much I'm trying to save. I love beating my target by saving money wherever I can.
I'm now obsessed and barely spend any money at all. I love competing with myself and my stubbornness wins out. Now I'm used to being frugal I don't think about shopping at all. I used to buy lots of small things because I convinced myself it wasn't much money and I deserved a treat. All of that added up and I was spending a lot more than I thought.
posted by shesbenevolent at 11:00 AM on January 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
I've tried spreadsheets a number of times before and I've never gotten it to work for me. I recently started using YNAB, and I'm in love. I recommend it to everyone I know. It would definitely work for your purposes. As for your husband, I like the whiteboard idea. You can lay out the YNAB budget categories, create a budget together, manage the app yourself, and then update the budget and write in outflows weekly. Free 30 day trial and a one time fee of $60 afterwards, though well worth it.
posted by masters2010 at 11:03 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by masters2010 at 11:03 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Yeah, you guys seem like ideal candidates for the envelope system (which can be done with cash or debit cards) for incidentals/fun stuff.
Here's what I'd suggest: sit down once a month and budget out your big expenses TOGETHER. Bills, mortgage/rent, loan payments, any one-off big expenses you expect to have, groceries, plus how much you want to put in savings(this is also a nice time to check in on how any saving is going). It's key that you do this together so he's bought in.
Once you have all your big expenses covered, THEN you figure out how much you have leftover for day-to-day expenses and fun stuff. The easiest way to deal with this is an envelope with cash for each of you, but you could also do a shared bank account for big expenses and then have each of you have a checking account for your day-to-day "allowance" if you prefer to use debit cards. A lot of couples do it this way.
If you want, you can also do weekly check-ins to make sure you're on track with your monthly budget and adjust for any unexpected expenses.
posted by lunasol at 11:04 AM on January 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
Here's what I'd suggest: sit down once a month and budget out your big expenses TOGETHER. Bills, mortgage/rent, loan payments, any one-off big expenses you expect to have, groceries, plus how much you want to put in savings(this is also a nice time to check in on how any saving is going). It's key that you do this together so he's bought in.
Once you have all your big expenses covered, THEN you figure out how much you have leftover for day-to-day expenses and fun stuff. The easiest way to deal with this is an envelope with cash for each of you, but you could also do a shared bank account for big expenses and then have each of you have a checking account for your day-to-day "allowance" if you prefer to use debit cards. A lot of couples do it this way.
If you want, you can also do weekly check-ins to make sure you're on track with your monthly budget and adjust for any unexpected expenses.
posted by lunasol at 11:04 AM on January 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
Oh, and my recommendation is based on YNAB, which I also love, but you really don't need YNAB to make it work - you can do it with pen and paper too.
posted by lunasol at 11:05 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by lunasol at 11:05 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Unless you're very confident of your ability to not overspend money in a debit based account (or have free overdraft protection), do not use limited money in an account to limit spending, as overdraft fees can destroy your savings. You could switch to a mix of prepaid debit cards and cash, perhaps.
If he doesn't want to use technology, he's going to have to be willing to make accommodations. Can all of the big ticket things that have to be done using cards be something you do and track with Mint while he goes cash only?
For motivation, put a whiteboard by the door or on the fridge that keeps running totals, what need to save that month, and when the project will be over.
posted by Candleman at 11:08 AM on January 5, 2015
If he doesn't want to use technology, he's going to have to be willing to make accommodations. Can all of the big ticket things that have to be done using cards be something you do and track with Mint while he goes cash only?
For motivation, put a whiteboard by the door or on the fridge that keeps running totals, what need to save that month, and when the project will be over.
posted by Candleman at 11:08 AM on January 5, 2015
When I did this in 1997, my husband and I just wrote everything down every day if we spent money. We kept a piece of paper on the kitchen counter for this purpose. (And mostly we just didn't spend it; the numbers in the last week of the month told us whether we could go wild and buy orange juice rather than drinking water as we usually did.)
If he seems to be as uninvolved as he seems to be, might it be easier for him to just not spend any money this month? You be in charge of paying bills and grocery shopping? Worst case scenario, you save more than necessary, in which case you reach your $12K sooner.
Alternatively, thinking about what types of spending are variable may make it easier. Coming up with plans for how specifically to reduce those may feel less brutal than your current plan, which seems to be to check your balance every day and decide fairly arbitrarily if you have saved enough yet this month. Make a spending plan, not a saving plan.
posted by metasarah at 11:21 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
If he seems to be as uninvolved as he seems to be, might it be easier for him to just not spend any money this month? You be in charge of paying bills and grocery shopping? Worst case scenario, you save more than necessary, in which case you reach your $12K sooner.
Alternatively, thinking about what types of spending are variable may make it easier. Coming up with plans for how specifically to reduce those may feel less brutal than your current plan, which seems to be to check your balance every day and decide fairly arbitrarily if you have saved enough yet this month. Make a spending plan, not a saving plan.
posted by metasarah at 11:21 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Envelope system. You allocate the money across the envelopes and when they're empty you're done spending. Put the savings away first. Only spend whatever's left over.
There's no science to it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:24 AM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
There's no science to it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:24 AM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
If he's functionally incapable of remembering anything or receiving reminders, then just tell him not to spend anything without calling you.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 11:42 AM on January 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 11:42 AM on January 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
We have lots of different expenses and many of them are fairly high so going cash-only isn't an option, I think
it sounds like you don't have to go completely cash only - just make him cash only.
Is he paid weekly? Bi-weekly?
Every Sunday you say "Here's your cash for the week. Spend it wisely."
Done.
Also, re: tracking - this is what direct deposit is for. Set the direct deposit for the household paycheck(s) to whatever they need to be ($500 per week or whatever) to meet your goal. Push that money into a savings account before you ever see it. Whateever is left if what you have to live on.
Your spending should be adjusted in advance of the week, not in the middle of it.
posted by anastasiav at 11:50 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
it sounds like you don't have to go completely cash only - just make him cash only.
Is he paid weekly? Bi-weekly?
Every Sunday you say "Here's your cash for the week. Spend it wisely."
Done.
Also, re: tracking - this is what direct deposit is for. Set the direct deposit for the household paycheck(s) to whatever they need to be ($500 per week or whatever) to meet your goal. Push that money into a savings account before you ever see it. Whateever is left if what you have to live on.
Your spending should be adjusted in advance of the week, not in the middle of it.
posted by anastasiav at 11:50 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
because saying to him 'we can only spend X dollars this week' just isn't something he can remember
So you hand him X dollars in cash and when it's gone, it's gone.
I don't think your main problem here is whether he will look at an app or not. If you want to post a follow-up saying what he's been spending the money on (you too) it might be helpful as we can all suggest strategies for that. For example, is it that he wants to buy magazines at the train station? Buys a lot of gas? Does the groceries?
posted by warriorqueen at 12:00 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
So you hand him X dollars in cash and when it's gone, it's gone.
I don't think your main problem here is whether he will look at an app or not. If you want to post a follow-up saying what he's been spending the money on (you too) it might be helpful as we can all suggest strategies for that. For example, is it that he wants to buy magazines at the train station? Buys a lot of gas? Does the groceries?
posted by warriorqueen at 12:00 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't save anywhere near that much, but I bet what I save is proportional. I will also vouch for this method:
1) Pay yourself first. As SOON as that money hits your account, the amount you need to save, you transfer out of there. You don't even let yourself get used to thinking you have that money. You don't. It's spent already, by putting it in savings.
2) Count up all the bills you'll have to pay out of what's left.
3) The rest is your spending money. Take that out in cash and divide it up by week, and y'all each have your cash allowance.
4) No putting anything on a card. Everything discretionary comes out of that cash. (I have an exception, that of course my Rx drugs come out of my HSA, but that doesn't count.)
It hurts less if you don't even let yourself think of that money as yours. Straight into savings it goes.
posted by fiercecupcake at 12:06 PM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
1) Pay yourself first. As SOON as that money hits your account, the amount you need to save, you transfer out of there. You don't even let yourself get used to thinking you have that money. You don't. It's spent already, by putting it in savings.
2) Count up all the bills you'll have to pay out of what's left.
3) The rest is your spending money. Take that out in cash and divide it up by week, and y'all each have your cash allowance.
4) No putting anything on a card. Everything discretionary comes out of that cash. (I have an exception, that of course my Rx drugs come out of my HSA, but that doesn't count.)
It hurts less if you don't even let yourself think of that money as yours. Straight into savings it goes.
posted by fiercecupcake at 12:06 PM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I feel like the main problem is that my husband
It's hard to do a budget with two people if one of them isn't being part of the solution. So I hear you saying a lot of things you CAN'T do (and I sympathize) but I feel like by doing that you're getting into the goofy-solutions range of things that will work. And I concur with other people that if your husband can't or won't learn new pathways to getting this handled, then he is the one that has to manage being more severely restricted.
You can frame it like this "Look, we overspend every week. I need to get this in control. You can either help in XYZ way or we're going to give you an allowance in gift cards and you're going to need to live within that"
So here would be my goofy solution...
Like others said, you're really looking at a week-to-week thing here but your budgeting and spending really won't be on a day-by-day basis. That is too goofy. If it were me and this were my problem to solve, I'd be
1. Putting every damned thing on autopay as possible. Clamp down on expenses that seem "unknowable" like groceries. Just buy the same stuff every week and live with it, it's six months.
2. Putting all the earned money into a no-spend account with no ATM or credit cards attached to it that are easily accessible
3. Make an auto-transfer into a "this is spending money" account with no overdraft options based on what your monthly budget says you can afford
4. If he (or you) can't be trusted with this, put the amount on a gift card that can only be spent down and not over (watch for fees)
5. Write down the budget amount on a whiteboard or post-it somewhere by the door for inspiration but your whole scheme should just be the monthly budget session. Have an incentive to have this: good food, good scotch, good movie, whatever
6. Basically don't shop for anything that isn't mission critical for the first month. Adjust for the second month. If you hit your 12K early, then you're AOK.
At some level you need to figure out 1. what WILL motivate you/him to stick with the program, and 2. why what you've done before isn't working. You also need to make sure that $2k a month is actually mathematically possible. But budgeting is just math + will power. This doesn't mean that it's easy but it does mean that the variables are knowable. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 12:13 PM on January 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's hard to do a budget with two people if one of them isn't being part of the solution. So I hear you saying a lot of things you CAN'T do (and I sympathize) but I feel like by doing that you're getting into the goofy-solutions range of things that will work. And I concur with other people that if your husband can't or won't learn new pathways to getting this handled, then he is the one that has to manage being more severely restricted.
You can frame it like this "Look, we overspend every week. I need to get this in control. You can either help in XYZ way or we're going to give you an allowance in gift cards and you're going to need to live within that"
So here would be my goofy solution...
Like others said, you're really looking at a week-to-week thing here but your budgeting and spending really won't be on a day-by-day basis. That is too goofy. If it were me and this were my problem to solve, I'd be
1. Putting every damned thing on autopay as possible. Clamp down on expenses that seem "unknowable" like groceries. Just buy the same stuff every week and live with it, it's six months.
2. Putting all the earned money into a no-spend account with no ATM or credit cards attached to it that are easily accessible
3. Make an auto-transfer into a "this is spending money" account with no overdraft options based on what your monthly budget says you can afford
4. If he (or you) can't be trusted with this, put the amount on a gift card that can only be spent down and not over (watch for fees)
5. Write down the budget amount on a whiteboard or post-it somewhere by the door for inspiration but your whole scheme should just be the monthly budget session. Have an incentive to have this: good food, good scotch, good movie, whatever
6. Basically don't shop for anything that isn't mission critical for the first month. Adjust for the second month. If you hit your 12K early, then you're AOK.
At some level you need to figure out 1. what WILL motivate you/him to stick with the program, and 2. why what you've done before isn't working. You also need to make sure that $2k a month is actually mathematically possible. But budgeting is just math + will power. This doesn't mean that it's easy but it does mean that the variables are knowable. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 12:13 PM on January 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Sorry, I just realized that really did get away from your question.
Here's a punchy analog way to track savings:
Put a thermometer-type graph on your fridge. Put $12k at the top of it. Break the "marks" out by week (on one side) and in $500 increments (the line inside the thermometer is the actual money, the lines outside are the date targets.)
Start a savings account and start moving money into it (if you are truly saving the money; if you are paying down debt, mark the $500 increments off as you make those payments.) When you move $500 into savings, colour in one of the marks. If that mark is not coloured in for the appropriate week, you are clearly not on target. If you're ahead, do not spend. Note and then see if you want to add extra cash in.
For spending I don't think you need more than your spreadsheet to report in at a weekly homemade low-cost meal. :) You can see via the thermometer if you are meeting your goals and if not, don't spend.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:17 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Here's a punchy analog way to track savings:
Put a thermometer-type graph on your fridge. Put $12k at the top of it. Break the "marks" out by week (on one side) and in $500 increments (the line inside the thermometer is the actual money, the lines outside are the date targets.)
Start a savings account and start moving money into it (if you are truly saving the money; if you are paying down debt, mark the $500 increments off as you make those payments.) When you move $500 into savings, colour in one of the marks. If that mark is not coloured in for the appropriate week, you are clearly not on target. If you're ahead, do not spend. Note and then see if you want to add extra cash in.
For spending I don't think you need more than your spreadsheet to report in at a weekly homemade low-cost meal. :) You can see via the thermometer if you are meeting your goals and if not, don't spend.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:17 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Since it was asked above, the spending my husband does that I have trouble reigning in is mainly done at the grocery store, the hardware store, Walmart, or on snacks when we're out and about. With groceries, it's issues like him wanting expensive items (like steak) and buying more than we need. I can't go alone as I don't drive. And I have not been able, through calm explanations, pleading, nagging, to get him to change this consistently. With other stores, it's always that there's a valid need for item X, but then he'll buy Y and Z which are never frivolous things, but just not needed at the moment and probably cheaper elsewhere with some planning. As for snacks, it's just a food thing again - he thinks he should have food, good food and lots of it, nevermind the expense.
I'm tired of all the pleading and chastising - we've been on this financial 'diet' for over a year and have saved a lot but not as much as we need for our impending move across the country. It's crunch time. That's why I'm looking for something really concrete and in his face to point to. Really, maybe cash is the solution - or gift cards for the groceries. That one is a really great idea.
posted by kitcat at 12:36 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm tired of all the pleading and chastising - we've been on this financial 'diet' for over a year and have saved a lot but not as much as we need for our impending move across the country. It's crunch time. That's why I'm looking for something really concrete and in his face to point to. Really, maybe cash is the solution - or gift cards for the groceries. That one is a really great idea.
posted by kitcat at 12:36 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I want to second lunasol's mention of YNAB. This is perhaps the best budgeting software that exists on the market. I know you say that you don't think an app will work, but this program does everything you mentioned wanting to do and more.
Critical to understanding how to use YNAB is watching their tutorial videos. Head on over to youneedabudget.com, sign up for a tutorial, and download the app for a free one month trial. If it doesn't work for you, you are out nothing. But I really think it will based on your post.
posted by merikus at 12:52 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Critical to understanding how to use YNAB is watching their tutorial videos. Head on over to youneedabudget.com, sign up for a tutorial, and download the app for a free one month trial. If it doesn't work for you, you are out nothing. But I really think it will based on your post.
posted by merikus at 12:52 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Have you also considered selling things to make money and also to make your move cheaper and easier?
posted by oceanjesse at 1:01 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 1:01 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You need bank simple. This is a straight plug for a bank that does EXACTLY what you asked for.
posted by bensherman at 1:02 PM on January 5, 2015
posted by bensherman at 1:02 PM on January 5, 2015
Another vote for YNAB. I know you said your husband isn't likely to do this but I urge you to reconsider. Like merikus says above, there's a one month free trial, so you have nothing to lose. It's $60 but frequently on sale. It was 75% off on Steam a week or so ago. I found it very user friendly and the tutorials are great. Best of all, I have it synced on Dropbox with my iPhone, so I enter purchases as soon as I make them. Easy peasy!
My partner isn't the type to be into this AT ALL, so he just gave me his receipts and I entered them in for him since I do all the financial stuff anyway and love this sort of thing.
posted by futureisunwritten at 1:13 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
My partner isn't the type to be into this AT ALL, so he just gave me his receipts and I entered them in for him since I do all the financial stuff anyway and love this sort of thing.
posted by futureisunwritten at 1:13 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The cash method works, yeah... but it's 2015. I'd rather have the security and convenience of purchasing with a card, and I'd rather not carry around a sweaty wad of cash. The gift card method works too... but it's time consuming and can be very inconvenient.
So here's a different analog alternative that can help people start to build better savings habits.
This is a very easy way to track daily savings that can motivate a person to think twice when at the store. It works best for a household with a salary income, but it can be modified to work for hourly incomes too. It's very simple and works in households with members who don't like dealing with budgets or money conversations.
I call it "The Board."
Step 1: Figure out your net income each year after taxes.
Step 2: Determine all your necessities that require a regularly scheduled payment: rent, mortgage, water, electricity, etc. For bills that vary, figure out an average that you pay each month. This would not include "necessities" like gas, however, as that's purchased at irregular times and in irregular amounts. This amount only includes regularly scheduled stuff. Now, multiply this by 12 to get a yearly "necessities" number.
Step 3: Now, subtract those necessities from your net income.
Step 4: Now you can determine your "daily pay." Take what's left and divide it by 365. This is what you're making each day. Maybe it's $50, 100, 150, who knows, but this is the amount you are "making each day" after your necessities. (Also round down to the nearest dollar amount.)
Step 5: Get a chalkboard or whiteboard and set it on the wall somewhere prominent and visible.
Step 6: Every day, you add your "daily pay" to the board. And every time someone spends money on something, anything, outside of bills (which were already accounted for), they are responsible for taking money off the board. Ideally, also, the two members of the household discuss what they have used money on that day. "Hey, I'm taking $20 off the board because I bought something on eBay." "Hey, had to get groceries for a few meals, which was $26." It's easiest to just round up or round down when keeping track.
It's very easy to see whether you're on your way to hitting your $2000 per month, or whether you're faltering. And it's an easy way to give someone a gentle slap in the face about their overspending, when they have to walk up to the board and admit that they just spent $50 on fancy steaks and beers at FancyMart again.
Also, it's an easy way to motivate people... wow, it's the 15th of the month, and we're already at $1500. Cool! Let's go out to eat tonight then. Or, wow, it's the 15th, and we're only at $400. I should be thriftier when I go to the store tomorrow.
Sample for how this would work:
posted by Old Man McKay at 1:39 PM on January 5, 2015 [13 favorites]
So here's a different analog alternative that can help people start to build better savings habits.
This is a very easy way to track daily savings that can motivate a person to think twice when at the store. It works best for a household with a salary income, but it can be modified to work for hourly incomes too. It's very simple and works in households with members who don't like dealing with budgets or money conversations.
I call it "The Board."
Step 1: Figure out your net income each year after taxes.
Step 2: Determine all your necessities that require a regularly scheduled payment: rent, mortgage, water, electricity, etc. For bills that vary, figure out an average that you pay each month. This would not include "necessities" like gas, however, as that's purchased at irregular times and in irregular amounts. This amount only includes regularly scheduled stuff. Now, multiply this by 12 to get a yearly "necessities" number.
Step 3: Now, subtract those necessities from your net income.
Step 4: Now you can determine your "daily pay." Take what's left and divide it by 365. This is what you're making each day. Maybe it's $50, 100, 150, who knows, but this is the amount you are "making each day" after your necessities. (Also round down to the nearest dollar amount.)
Step 5: Get a chalkboard or whiteboard and set it on the wall somewhere prominent and visible.
Step 6: Every day, you add your "daily pay" to the board. And every time someone spends money on something, anything, outside of bills (which were already accounted for), they are responsible for taking money off the board. Ideally, also, the two members of the household discuss what they have used money on that day. "Hey, I'm taking $20 off the board because I bought something on eBay." "Hey, had to get groceries for a few meals, which was $26." It's easiest to just round up or round down when keeping track.
It's very easy to see whether you're on your way to hitting your $2000 per month, or whether you're faltering. And it's an easy way to give someone a gentle slap in the face about their overspending, when they have to walk up to the board and admit that they just spent $50 on fancy steaks and beers at FancyMart again.
Also, it's an easy way to motivate people... wow, it's the 15th of the month, and we're already at $1500. Cool! Let's go out to eat tonight then. Or, wow, it's the 15th, and we're only at $400. I should be thriftier when I go to the store tomorrow.
Sample for how this would work:
- Jim and Joe make $50,000 after taxes, withholdings, retirement, et cetera.
- Each month they spend about $2,000 on regularly scheduled payments, including rent, car payments, phone, and average water/power bills.
- Their "daily pay" is (50,000-(2,000*12))/365, which comes out to roughly $71.
- Every day starting on the first of the month, Joe adds $71 to the board.
- Joe fills up the car which costs $24, and goes out for lunch, which costs $6. When he gets home, he removes $30 from the board and mentions it to Jim.
- By the 23rd, Jim sees that there's only $210 on the board, so he's more thoughtful when he goes to the store.
posted by Old Man McKay at 1:39 PM on January 5, 2015 [13 favorites]
Best answer: Step 1: determine what your grocery budget is for a week.
Then sit down with him and write out a weekly meal plan. Firstly take an inventory of everything you need to use up in the fridge. Freeze stuff if you won't be able to cook it before it goes bad. Make meals that will use up what is in the fridge first. Then take that meal plan, estimate the costs for each item you'll need to buy. Is there room for steak on Friday if you have pasta, beans, chickpeas and frozen tilapia Monday through Thursday? Is there room for snacks each day if you don't get steak Friday? What about homemade snacks instead of prepared stuff?
Then go shopping with him. You only get what you put on the list. I know some stores in my area have a self-check out wand thing that you scan each item that goes into your cart. This lets you know exactly how much you've spent so far.
And you mentioned that you don't drive. Plenty of people (like me!) walk to the grocery store. It is a great way to limit how much you buy because it'll be on your shoulders for that walk home. You can bring an insulated bag, rolling suitcase or "granny cart" if you have especially far to go. Less miles on the car, less gas money spent, nice way to be connected to your community, wins all around.
As for other shopping. Stop. Walmart is not an activity. It is not a recreational thing that you go do. Stay home. Read a book. Play a game. Go for a walk.
posted by fontophilic at 1:43 PM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Then sit down with him and write out a weekly meal plan. Firstly take an inventory of everything you need to use up in the fridge. Freeze stuff if you won't be able to cook it before it goes bad. Make meals that will use up what is in the fridge first. Then take that meal plan, estimate the costs for each item you'll need to buy. Is there room for steak on Friday if you have pasta, beans, chickpeas and frozen tilapia Monday through Thursday? Is there room for snacks each day if you don't get steak Friday? What about homemade snacks instead of prepared stuff?
Then go shopping with him. You only get what you put on the list. I know some stores in my area have a self-check out wand thing that you scan each item that goes into your cart. This lets you know exactly how much you've spent so far.
And you mentioned that you don't drive. Plenty of people (like me!) walk to the grocery store. It is a great way to limit how much you buy because it'll be on your shoulders for that walk home. You can bring an insulated bag, rolling suitcase or "granny cart" if you have especially far to go. Less miles on the car, less gas money spent, nice way to be connected to your community, wins all around.
As for other shopping. Stop. Walmart is not an activity. It is not a recreational thing that you go do. Stay home. Read a book. Play a game. Go for a walk.
posted by fontophilic at 1:43 PM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
^^^ fontophilic nailed it about shopping as an activity. I can't step foot in Target without dropping $50 I hadn't budgeted for, so I just don't go. Out of sight, out of mind.
posted by mochapickle at 1:47 PM on January 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 1:47 PM on January 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is similar to what Old Man McKay suggested, but since you're already into spreadsheets, you can create a Google Docs spreadsheet (which the two of you can share). In one column goes everything the two of you buy this month, both necessities and fun stuff (if that's too intense you could include, say, $30/week cash for incidentals and just add that each week at the end of the week). Also, have a cell with your total combined earnings for the month (use last month's if you're not salaried).
Let's say you make combined $6k a month, you want to save $2k a month, your rent is another $2k so you have $2k left to spend. That's either $64.50 a day or $66.67 a day depending on if it's a 30 day or 31 day month. We'll average that out. You have $65 a day.
So now you need some equations.
1. What you have spent so far: total up your spending column
2. Total remaining: subtract #1 from the original amount you had available, which I arbitrarily said was $2000
3. Average spending: divide #1 by number of days elapsed so far, there are TODAY() and DATE() functions in Google Spreadsheets so you can do this. Lets you see if you're meeting your goal or not.
4. What you've "earned" so far: ($65 * days in month elapsed so far) - (total spending). So if you were thrifty for a few days, you can afford a treat.
5. What you have per day NOW. That's the amount in #2 divided by the number of days remaining in the month. So to meet your goal you would be able to spend that amount per day. If you're overspending you now have less than $65 per day, but if you were thrifty, bonus, you can spend more!
I'm using a slightly different system now because I wanted to separate out essential from nonessential expenses, but I did this for the better part of a year and it was very helpful, so let me know if you'd like to see examples.
posted by capricorn at 2:07 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Let's say you make combined $6k a month, you want to save $2k a month, your rent is another $2k so you have $2k left to spend. That's either $64.50 a day or $66.67 a day depending on if it's a 30 day or 31 day month. We'll average that out. You have $65 a day.
So now you need some equations.
1. What you have spent so far: total up your spending column
2. Total remaining: subtract #1 from the original amount you had available, which I arbitrarily said was $2000
3. Average spending: divide #1 by number of days elapsed so far, there are TODAY() and DATE() functions in Google Spreadsheets so you can do this. Lets you see if you're meeting your goal or not.
4. What you've "earned" so far: ($65 * days in month elapsed so far) - (total spending). So if you were thrifty for a few days, you can afford a treat.
5. What you have per day NOW. That's the amount in #2 divided by the number of days remaining in the month. So to meet your goal you would be able to spend that amount per day. If you're overspending you now have less than $65 per day, but if you were thrifty, bonus, you can spend more!
I'm using a slightly different system now because I wanted to separate out essential from nonessential expenses, but I did this for the better part of a year and it was very helpful, so let me know if you'd like to see examples.
posted by capricorn at 2:07 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ah, sorry, you said analog! Well, this can be calculated each day with a calculator too.
posted by capricorn at 5:05 PM on January 5, 2015
posted by capricorn at 5:05 PM on January 5, 2015
I think you are trying to make a systems solution to a people problem. He needs to buy in and exercise some self-discipline. It's hard saying no, when you are wanting to say yes!
Is he in agreement on the end goals and understands it is worthwhile? Until he does, it's not going to go much further. :(
posted by heathrowga at 6:42 PM on January 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Is he in agreement on the end goals and understands it is worthwhile? Until he does, it's not going to go much further. :(
posted by heathrowga at 6:42 PM on January 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think you are trying to make a systems solution to a people problem. He needs to buy in and exercise some self-discipline. It's hard saying no, when you are wanting to say yes!
Yeah, sounds like he values getting nice things and good food more than he values saving money for the impending move. Any solution is going to involve changing that value system (or the needs themselves) in some way.
What is it that you need to save $2000 every month for, exactly? What will happen if you don't make that goal? You might pose this as a question to him - would he rather get nice things now, or get nice things when/after you move? Or would you be willing to perhaps reduce the total amount you need to save, or get some extra work hours in to cover the additional expense? Those are all different ways of solving the same problem of covering the expenses associated with moving.
If he does place a high value on getting nice things, you could use that to your advantage too. Make the budget a tool for you to make sure you can say yes to enough nice things every month. He wants super shiny tools? Put money aside for that first. He likes steak? Make sure it's in the budget. That way the "reward" for using the budget is built-in.
posted by danceswithlight at 9:44 PM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, sounds like he values getting nice things and good food more than he values saving money for the impending move. Any solution is going to involve changing that value system (or the needs themselves) in some way.
What is it that you need to save $2000 every month for, exactly? What will happen if you don't make that goal? You might pose this as a question to him - would he rather get nice things now, or get nice things when/after you move? Or would you be willing to perhaps reduce the total amount you need to save, or get some extra work hours in to cover the additional expense? Those are all different ways of solving the same problem of covering the expenses associated with moving.
If he does place a high value on getting nice things, you could use that to your advantage too. Make the budget a tool for you to make sure you can say yes to enough nice things every month. He wants super shiny tools? Put money aside for that first. He likes steak? Make sure it's in the budget. That way the "reward" for using the budget is built-in.
posted by danceswithlight at 9:44 PM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's loads of really good and valid advice in this thread (envelope system, paying yourself first) that you really should be implementing. I've gotta say that I'm a little confused about how you could be spending your 'savings money' during the month - why aren't you putting that money out of sight, mind and budget the second you get paid? But that's actually a little beside the point.
My question is, do each of you have money of your own that you can spend as you please? I'm a lifelong budgeter and I check my bank balances as often as most people check their email. My husband can happily go a week without checking his bank balance, and feels constricted by budgets. Our workaround is really simple: we total our income, then deduct our shared expenses (rent, emergency fund savings, holiday savings, super contributions, groceries, bills). We split whatever's left in half, and we each get our 'spending money' to do with as we please.
This works for me, because I love to budget my spending money to the Nth degree. This works for my husband, because he values being more spontaneous. It also has a nice side effect, where we find ourselves buying each other 'treats' all the time - a dinner here, a movie ticket there - out of our respective 'spending money'.
Also, never set foot inside a grocery store without a list that you guys agree on in advance, since grocery money obviously comes out of the 'grocery' line item on your shared budget. If he decides he wants a steak, that's fantastic, good for him, it's coming out of his spending money.
posted by nerdfish at 5:05 AM on January 6, 2015
My question is, do each of you have money of your own that you can spend as you please? I'm a lifelong budgeter and I check my bank balances as often as most people check their email. My husband can happily go a week without checking his bank balance, and feels constricted by budgets. Our workaround is really simple: we total our income, then deduct our shared expenses (rent, emergency fund savings, holiday savings, super contributions, groceries, bills). We split whatever's left in half, and we each get our 'spending money' to do with as we please.
This works for me, because I love to budget my spending money to the Nth degree. This works for my husband, because he values being more spontaneous. It also has a nice side effect, where we find ourselves buying each other 'treats' all the time - a dinner here, a movie ticket there - out of our respective 'spending money'.
Also, never set foot inside a grocery store without a list that you guys agree on in advance, since grocery money obviously comes out of the 'grocery' line item on your shared budget. If he decides he wants a steak, that's fantastic, good for him, it's coming out of his spending money.
posted by nerdfish at 5:05 AM on January 6, 2015
Response by poster: So I've downloaded YNAB and started setting it up. It might not help so much now with our short term goals, but it may just be the thing we need in the long term, and hopefully I can slowly get him used to using it. I also love the idea of thinking in terms of what you actually make, after expenses are deducted, in a day.
People who pointed out that this is not really a technical problem are right. We have a problem with our 'spending culture' that needs fixing. We've been deeply in debt all the time we've been married (7 years) and just finally paid it all off this year. But we still carry the attitude of 'oh well, just put it on credit', or 'meh, overdraft will take care of this so let's buy it anyways'. And I'm keen on changing this radically, now, but my husband isn't. His measure of success and happiness means having stockpiles of food and extra lightbulbs (just one example) and buying things, if you feel like you need them, right now - rather than delaying a purchase, finding a sale, or just making do with what you have. There is no such thing in our lives as saying 'nope, can't afford a nice beef roast this week'; we only say that when it's a purchase maybe over $50. Doing that feels like poverty to him, I think (even though we both grew up poor), and even though good lord, that's not poverty!!!!!!!!!
So, yeah, not essentially a problem in tracking spending really, but one that I've been hoping could be partially addressed with tracking. Our move itself will cost between 5k and 7k. We need money in case one of us is jobless for a bit in the new location. And we need a home downpayment for the near future. This is serious stuff and it has me worried. So thanks for your help. I'm really going to try a lot of these suggestions.
posted by kitcat at 10:32 AM on January 6, 2015
People who pointed out that this is not really a technical problem are right. We have a problem with our 'spending culture' that needs fixing. We've been deeply in debt all the time we've been married (7 years) and just finally paid it all off this year. But we still carry the attitude of 'oh well, just put it on credit', or 'meh, overdraft will take care of this so let's buy it anyways'. And I'm keen on changing this radically, now, but my husband isn't. His measure of success and happiness means having stockpiles of food and extra lightbulbs (just one example) and buying things, if you feel like you need them, right now - rather than delaying a purchase, finding a sale, or just making do with what you have. There is no such thing in our lives as saying 'nope, can't afford a nice beef roast this week'; we only say that when it's a purchase maybe over $50. Doing that feels like poverty to him, I think (even though we both grew up poor), and even though good lord, that's not poverty!!!!!!!!!
So, yeah, not essentially a problem in tracking spending really, but one that I've been hoping could be partially addressed with tracking. Our move itself will cost between 5k and 7k. We need money in case one of us is jobless for a bit in the new location. And we need a home downpayment for the near future. This is serious stuff and it has me worried. So thanks for your help. I'm really going to try a lot of these suggestions.
posted by kitcat at 10:32 AM on January 6, 2015
Having read your update, I'm a bit of a stockpiler and I assigned myself a $10 "stockpile" budget line for the grocery store each week - that's what I use to buy the eleventy million cans of beans I Have To Buy when they are on sale. More than that and it starts going to waste. Less than that and I get panicky that I'm not 'taking advantage of' the sales. It's kind of a mental game more than anything but it helps me.
He really doesn't want to be trucking lightbulbs across the country. :)
posted by warriorqueen at 2:44 PM on January 6, 2015
He really doesn't want to be trucking lightbulbs across the country. :)
posted by warriorqueen at 2:44 PM on January 6, 2015
So about "spending culture", you guys might enjoy reading Mr. Money Mustache.
A lot of personal finance blogs or "philosophy" is kinda weird patriarchal-preachy. (Like Dave Ramsey) But MMM is not. Or at least preachy in way I agree with. He's all about maximizing your savings rate, no matter what income, and pointing out the absurdities of junk people pay extra for.
I think cutting out TV, magazines, and generally avoiding most forms of advertisement (like installing AdBlock) helps tremendously. It allows you to define your wants vs your needs since the point of advertising is to create a false need for stuff.
As for shopping for deals or stock piling, it can make sense in the long term, but not when you guys have a move coming up. But really, if you're talking $3 packs of light bulbs, this is a drop in the bucket of $2k. I'm sure you've got larger pieces of the pie like rent, car payments, etc. You should look at cutting those expenses too. All the belt tightening in the world won't make the math of the situation any different.
posted by fontophilic at 8:53 AM on January 8, 2015
A lot of personal finance blogs or "philosophy" is kinda weird patriarchal-preachy. (Like Dave Ramsey) But MMM is not. Or at least preachy in way I agree with. He's all about maximizing your savings rate, no matter what income, and pointing out the absurdities of junk people pay extra for.
I think cutting out TV, magazines, and generally avoiding most forms of advertisement (like installing AdBlock) helps tremendously. It allows you to define your wants vs your needs since the point of advertising is to create a false need for stuff.
As for shopping for deals or stock piling, it can make sense in the long term, but not when you guys have a move coming up. But really, if you're talking $3 packs of light bulbs, this is a drop in the bucket of $2k. I'm sure you've got larger pieces of the pie like rent, car payments, etc. You should look at cutting those expenses too. All the belt tightening in the world won't make the math of the situation any different.
posted by fontophilic at 8:53 AM on January 8, 2015
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posted by blue t-shirt at 10:51 AM on January 5, 2015